I am very concerned that ESD will become cluttered, since the argument is to address the emptiness of the map may I suggest the following;
Have a larger dock construction over San Fransisco to the far right of ESD for the San Fransisico Fleet Yards, have a small dock collection in various size TMP docks on the far left of ESD with a SMALL orbital outpost. The TMP docks would hold the NX Enterprise, Ent-A, Ent-B, the stolen B'rel from ST3, a TOS Constitution, (constellation when available) and other classic ships, this would act as the Starfleet Museum. Add these while having a small selection of docks outside the ESD window only.
This would hold the dual purpose of de-cluttering around ESD but having more assets in the map as well as having canon consistency. These assets already exist, it would merely be a matter of placing them appropriately.
Now that I have had a chance to log on I can see that the SF yards are nicely done, having a Starfleet Museum on the far left of ESD and removing some of the docks around ESD would be the final touch to making this zone perfect.
Removing docks should be a high priority as there are now 100 in orbit, we really don't need that many.
Issues;
The chair for elsa mora the requisition officers contact has reverted to the old sovereign chair.
The Bussard Collectors for the Vesta Class are white.
The lighting strip at the top of the docks spire needs a fade between colours like holodeck.
Can spotlights be added to the dock to add scale.
The collision box preventing people running up the glass at the shipyard is missing.
The collision boxes around the Dry Docks prevent entry.
Patrol paths of NPCs make them go through barriers.
PADD on the floor under Quinns desk.
Lt. Cmdr Arut the Dil weapon contact is facing the wrong way and typing on a wall.
Turbolifts kick out out of the lift on arrival to the mezanine and the main level.
I think there are too many docks sitting outside the station now and they are positioned right at spawn points, the few before were ok but now we've moved into overkill territory.
I do not like the new space Earth model, you had a good idea with the one that was attached to the skybox, why abandon that in favor of this? Fine, people can fly around it, but I hope you have a better surface skin planned for it because this one just looks terrible.
There is still an LOD problem on some of the walls in the doctor's office and all of the biobed displays are messed up, reversed or something, they only come on if you get close and very faintly at that.
There is also still an LOD problem on the North and South ramps on the concourse where the dark bands disappear with distance.
There is an Npc walking a repetitious path in the shuttle area just walking around a Yellowstone that looks really bizarre, better if he were walking from one group to another and talking or just standing still looking at a PADD, because his current activity looks a bit.....OCD.
I'll second the opinion that there should be some kind of collision box on the glass over the shipyard area, it will just look too weird having that glass holding up under the mayhem that will likely be taking place on it if it goes that way live.
I'm going to miss the holographic ship displays of the old shipyard but I don't think there is any room for them in this new area.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I do not like the new space Earth model, you had a good idea with the one that was attached to the skybox, why abandon that in favor of this? Fine, people can fly around it, but I hope you have a better surface skin planned for it because this one just looks terrible.
According to Taco, his boss (the head of the art department) didn't like the skyfile planet specifically because you can't fly around it (despite much praise for it).
As far as I can tell, its actually the same model as the old one its just lighted differently so it looks new.
ESD is beautiful and I will be spending lots of time there when this goes Live for that reason.
I do, however, have a concern that all these mobile drydocks parked outside ESD make that area look way too cluttered. ESD was not a shipyard, but more like a command center. The yards themselves should be further away from ESD for that reason. Even though Taco said on the server that the impact on performance outside ESD would be minimal when compared to the character traffic... still, all the additional graphics will still add to the possibility of producing unneccessary lag for that area.
A few docks in small groups closer to Earth is one thing, but it looks like someone went copy/paste happy with those things around ESD.
-AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- ProjectPhoenix Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
According to Taco, his boss (the head of the art department) didn't like the skyfile planet specifically because you can't fly around it (despite much praise for it).
As far as I can tell, its actually the same model as the old one its just lighted differently so it looks new.
Part of the problem here is developers or in this case their bosses indulging what they like instead of what might be most suitable. I might agree with his position based on only one premise, that it is not being done anywhere else, which is too bad, because it did add a remarkable sense of realism to the space map.
Upon your mentioning it, I did investigate and it does appear to be the same model, up until now, I had never really noticed how bad Earth looked on Holodeck in the right light, it isn't the the map details themselves that's the problem, it's the reflection/bloom mapping that does not follow the coastlines but instead looks like something out of a low resolution game.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
According to Taco, his boss (the head of the art department) didn't like the skyfile planet specifically because you can't fly around it (despite much praise for it).
As far as I can tell, its actually the same model as the old one its just lighted differently so it looks new.
I know that. He's said before he had to twist a few thumbs before they even tried the Gas Giant in Alpha. And I LOVE the Gas Giant in Alpha. The skybox planets are the best. I wish we had more.
Like some of the others've said, if the current groupings of drydocks are spaced out a bit further from each other, or in other spots around Earth orbit, could help. Like keep the original set where it is (for the interior window view) but push the others out and around, perhaps. Don't necessarily have to remove them, and could give us screenshotters other views that don't include Spacedock while parked/parking/etc. drydockness.
Also, thank you for adding docks of other sizes! Now if they wouldn't go invisible while "parked" inside... >_O
I agree with some of the posters here. It's space, it shouldn't be cluttered.
One suggestion could be to put some of these facilities in other areas around Earth Orbit. On the show when we saw McKinley Station it did not seem to be within visual range of ESD. Since we can fly around Earth Again (which is an iffy decision IMO, I liked the backdrop version), you might as well space out the facilities.
A suggestion from some us a few years ago was to acknowledge the international player base more. Since the space map is keeping the Earth model to fly around, it's time to place at least one set of drydocks at the other side of the planet and over the southern hemisphere.
Just northwest of Australia makes sense to me. This would serve to acknowledge Indonesia as well. Does anyone feel this is a bad idea?
What does this mean? All of the ships in the Docking bay, and flying around outside, are our current standard player ships.
Not to put words in his mouth, but perhaps some ships flying around in Sol should be newer shiny ones with the Type 6 material? I dunno that's my best guess.
Like some of the others've said, if the current groupings of drydocks are spaced out a bit further from each other, or in other spots around Earth orbit, could help. Like keep the original set where it is (for the interior window view) but push the others out and around, perhaps. Don't necessarily have to remove them, and could give us screenshotters other views that don't include Spacedock while parked/parking/etc. drydockness.
Also, thank you for adding docks of other sizes! Now if they wouldn't go invisible while "parked" inside... >_O
Maybe play around with the vertical distribution a bit? You've got 3 axes to work with.
Also yes, I would like to thank you for adding more drydocks that player ships can fit in since I haven't actually thanked you for that yet. It really does mean a lot to us.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
What does this mean? All of the ships in the Docking bay, and flying around outside, are our current standard player ships.
Not sure if you have the assets or not, but what about that smaller station from The Motion Picture, that later became Regula 1 turned upside down..could you add that to earth orbit? Together with a couple of old style dry docks fitting the Constitution and other smaller ships.
Could place it on the other side of the planet or at least over the west coast area/San Francisco.
What does this mean? All of the ships in the Docking bay, and flying around outside, are our current standard player ships.
Sorry to have caused confusion, now that I can finally get back to the forums (Yay PWE techs!) I can clear it up
What I mean is to update the Connies, Sabers, Galaxies, Akiras, etc to T5 ships such as the Sovi, etc. Given that in the timeline the older ships are seriously out of date.
Oh and can we put some ships in the dry docks with some sparks or something to give the map more... life? Thanks
Very true. Many of us kinda "feel" your passion. (no naughty images intended) It is not just a job for you, but also sort of a calling.
yes, thanks for your efforts taco, and please pass on my thanks at least to everyone else working on the new ESD. its a credit to the legacy ESD (and to the number of other things that needed to be dealt with first) that it lasted as long as it did. here is to hoping this ESD lasts at least half as long before needing to be fixed.
request that the ambassadors being in quin's office be looked at again. they would be perfect down below in the unused conference room. that room is for ESD use. players who need something like that can use one of several lounge areas in the main area or on the upper walkway. and for fleet members, there are formal and/or informal areas in all 4 fleet facilities depending on teir level.
and if you are still against that, then at least move them out into the ops are proper, there is a decent area off the to right facing inboard as you enter through that anti-clockwise passage.
all 4 turbo lifts in the lower section let you up to the mezanine. maybe use one to let you into the shuttle bay? you guys have designed a really beautiful one
all 4 turbo lifts in the lower section let you up to the mezanine. maybe use one to let you into the shuttle bay? you guys have designed a really beautiful one
itd be a shame to let that go to waste... let us back in
As he's already said though, they built the shuttle bay and made it non accessible to add a feeling of size to the station interior. So if they let us in there, then they'd have to add another section past that where we could see but not enter and then we'd most likely all want access to that area and the problem continues. They have to stop us somewhere.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
As he's already said though, they built the shuttle bay and made it non accessible to add a feeling of size to the station interior. So if they let us in there, then they'd have to add another section past that where we could see but not enter and then we'd most likely all want access to that area and the problem continues. They have to stop us somewhere.
apologies, did not catch that bit... 93 pages is a lot of messages.
Not sure if you have the assets or not, but what about that smaller station from The Motion Picture, that later became Regula 1 turned upside down..could you add that to earth orbit? Together with a couple of old style dry docks fitting the Constitution and other smaller ships.
Could place it on the other side of the planet or at least over the west coast area/San Francisco.
You are a sneaky one, aren't you?
looks great this new orbital station. Like a modernized version of just what I was asking for. How did I miss it before?
Is there a reason that the civilian, Caitian bartender was renamed from Niwan to Lt. Velde?
Thumbs-up for the additional shipyard a ways out from ESD. It's sitting right where I'd expect the S.F. Yards facility to be. While I count myself amongst those who will park my starship in a drydock from time to time, I wonder if the numerous Drydock sets around ESD and one with this new station are sufficient? Having two sets with the second station might be overkill.
They added the San Francisco Fleetyards? I need to fly around Earth again.
A suggestion from some us a few years ago was to acknowledge the international player base more. Since the space map is keeping the Earth model to fly around, it's time to place at least one set of drydocks at the other side of the planet and over the southern hemisphere.
Just northwest of Australia makes sense to me. This would serve to acknowledge Indonesia as well. Does anyone feel this is a bad idea?
I'll add another one in that Memory Alpha forgot, at the end of Star Trek Nemesis, the Enterprise-E's drydock was hanging out over Italy and Northern Africa. Maybe there are Cairo, Tripoli, Tunisia, or Rome shipyards.
On the subject of clutter around Earth in general, I'm sure the devs will exercise restraint. In actual Earth orbit or any scale representation, the many shipyards are tens of thousands of miles/kilometers apart and it would be impossible to see them at any meaningful distance. At the scale of Earth at present having fill shipyards or even anything a little more than a few docks sprinkled around Earth orbit could rapidly become excessive. Especially considering on Holodeck no matter when I go or what instance, Earth Spacedock is always surrounded by a healthy fleet of ships.
And yes Skybox overall in scale is superior. I would've liked to have seen the reactions on Holodeck to that. Oh well.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I'll add another one in that Memory Alpha forgot, at the end of Star Trek Nemesis, the Enterprise-E's drydock was hanging out over Italy and Northern Africa. Maybe there are Cairo, Tripoli, Tunisia, or Rome shipyards.
On the subject of clutter around Earth in general, I'm sure the devs will exercise restraint. In actual Earth orbit or any scale representation, the many shipyards are tens of thousands of miles/kilometers apart and it would be impossible to see them at any meaningful distance. At the scale of Earth at present having fill shipyards or even anything a little more than a few docks sprinkled around Earth orbit could rapidly become excessive. Especially considering on Holodeck no matter when I go or what instance, Earth Spacedock is always surrounded by a healthy fleet of ships.
But you aren't really responding to my supposition. I didn't ask if my map link indicated all canon shipyards. Of course it's incomplete to canon. That was not my point. Because if canon only were followed, all Starfleet shipyards are seen in the northern hemisphere only. Or related to Luna. I asked, based upon the Drydock offerings seen currently on STO's Earth system map, if shifting some of it to the southern hemisphere - away from the established stations - wouldn't go far to acknowledge other players. While also addressing clutter? Would this not be better for the game?
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Comments
Now that I have had a chance to log on I can see that the SF yards are nicely done, having a Starfleet Museum on the far left of ESD and removing some of the docks around ESD would be the final touch to making this zone perfect.
Removing docks should be a high priority as there are now 100 in orbit, we really don't need that many.
Issues;
The chair for elsa mora the requisition officers contact has reverted to the old sovereign chair.
The Bussard Collectors for the Vesta Class are white.
The lighting strip at the top of the docks spire needs a fade between colours like holodeck.
Can spotlights be added to the dock to add scale.
The collision box preventing people running up the glass at the shipyard is missing.
The collision boxes around the Dry Docks prevent entry.
Patrol paths of NPCs make them go through barriers.
PADD on the floor under Quinns desk.
Lt. Cmdr Arut the Dil weapon contact is facing the wrong way and typing on a wall.
Turbolifts kick out out of the lift on arrival to the mezanine and the main level.
Although, one does question why SF shipyards have less dry docks than ESD...
I do not like the new space Earth model, you had a good idea with the one that was attached to the skybox, why abandon that in favor of this? Fine, people can fly around it, but I hope you have a better surface skin planned for it because this one just looks terrible.
There is still an LOD problem on some of the walls in the doctor's office and all of the biobed displays are messed up, reversed or something, they only come on if you get close and very faintly at that.
There is also still an LOD problem on the North and South ramps on the concourse where the dark bands disappear with distance.
There is an Npc walking a repetitious path in the shuttle area just walking around a Yellowstone that looks really bizarre, better if he were walking from one group to another and talking or just standing still looking at a PADD, because his current activity looks a bit.....OCD.
I'll second the opinion that there should be some kind of collision box on the glass over the shipyard area, it will just look too weird having that glass holding up under the mayhem that will likely be taking place on it if it goes that way live.
I'm going to miss the holographic ship displays of the old shipyard but I don't think there is any room for them in this new area.
According to Taco, his boss (the head of the art department) didn't like the skyfile planet specifically because you can't fly around it (despite much praise for it).
As far as I can tell, its actually the same model as the old one its just lighted differently so it looks new.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I do, however, have a concern that all these mobile drydocks parked outside ESD make that area look way too cluttered. ESD was not a shipyard, but more like a command center. The yards themselves should be further away from ESD for that reason. Even though Taco said on the server that the impact on performance outside ESD would be minimal when compared to the character traffic... still, all the additional graphics will still add to the possibility of producing unneccessary lag for that area.
A few docks in small groups closer to Earth is one thing, but it looks like someone went copy/paste happy with those things around ESD.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Upon your mentioning it, I did investigate and it does appear to be the same model, up until now, I had never really noticed how bad Earth looked on Holodeck in the right light, it isn't the the map details themselves that's the problem, it's the reflection/bloom mapping that does not follow the coastlines but instead looks like something out of a low resolution game.
I know that. He's said before he had to twist a few thumbs before they even tried the Gas Giant in Alpha. And I LOVE the Gas Giant in Alpha. The skybox planets are the best. I wish we had more.
What does this mean? All of the ships in the Docking bay, and flying around outside, are our current standard player ships.
And I personally like the Skybox planets better.
Maybe he's talking about how the new ships look comparative to the old ones?
Like some of the others've said, if the current groupings of drydocks are spaced out a bit further from each other, or in other spots around Earth orbit, could help. Like keep the original set where it is (for the interior window view) but push the others out and around, perhaps. Don't necessarily have to remove them, and could give us screenshotters other views that don't include Spacedock while parked/parking/etc. drydockness.
Also, thank you for adding docks of other sizes! Now if they wouldn't go invisible while "parked" inside... >_O
A suggestion from some us a few years ago was to acknowledge the international player base more. Since the space map is keeping the Earth model to fly around, it's time to place at least one set of drydocks at the other side of the planet and over the southern hemisphere.
Just northwest of Australia makes sense to me. This would serve to acknowledge Indonesia as well. Does anyone feel this is a bad idea?
See map points to clarify:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q81/gkerr_album/STO/EarthMapShipyards_zps5316295d.jpg
Not to put words in his mouth, but perhaps some ships flying around in Sol should be newer shiny ones with the Type 6 material? I dunno that's my best guess.
Maybe play around with the vertical distribution a bit? You've got 3 axes to work with.
Also yes, I would like to thank you for adding more drydocks that player ships can fit in since I haven't actually thanked you for that yet. It really does mean a lot to us.
Joined January 2009
Not sure if you have the assets or not, but what about that smaller station from The Motion Picture, that later became Regula 1 turned upside down..could you add that to earth orbit? Together with a couple of old style dry docks fitting the Constitution and other smaller ships.
Could place it on the other side of the planet or at least over the west coast area/San Francisco.
Sorry to have caused confusion, now that I can finally get back to the forums (Yay PWE techs!) I can clear it up
What I mean is to update the Connies, Sabers, Galaxies, Akiras, etc to T5 ships such as the Sovi, etc. Given that in the timeline the older ships are seriously out of date.
Oh and can we put some ships in the dry docks with some sparks or something to give the map more... life? Thanks
You really care for STO AND you try to do very much to please us.
Very true. Many of us kinda "feel" your passion. (no naughty images intended) It is not just a job for you, but also sort of a calling.
STOWiki admin.
yes, thanks for your efforts taco, and please pass on my thanks at least to everyone else working on the new ESD. its a credit to the legacy ESD (and to the number of other things that needed to be dealt with first) that it lasted as long as it did. here is to hoping this ESD lasts at least half as long before needing to be fixed.
and if you are still against that, then at least move them out into the ops are proper, there is a decent area off the to right facing inboard as you enter through that anti-clockwise passage.
http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/fss/9eb8b838426282c76eacdc97f21d8b20/new+ESD+shuttle.PNG
itd be a shame to let that go to waste... let us back in
As he's already said though, they built the shuttle bay and made it non accessible to add a feeling of size to the station interior. So if they let us in there, then they'd have to add another section past that where we could see but not enter and then we'd most likely all want access to that area and the problem continues. They have to stop us somewhere.
apologies, did not catch that bit... 93 pages is a lot of messages.
Haha yeah I know what you mean, it can be hard to keep up with a lot of it.
Mine Trap Supporter
You are a sneaky one, aren't you?
looks great this new orbital station. Like a modernized version of just what I was asking for. How did I miss it before?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95853304/screenshot_2014-04-13-00-33-36.jpg
Unfortunately on this pic you can also see how bad the planet looks with that horrible texture.
and in this pic you can see why the skybox is a much better idea scale-wise.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95853304/screenshot_2014-04-13-00-50-16.jpg
Since it's right over California it makes sense. And I'm pretty sure I just flew past you there not five minutes ago.
They added the San Francisco Fleetyards? I need to fly around Earth again.
You're not even close. In canon we have...
I'll add another one in that Memory Alpha forgot, at the end of Star Trek Nemesis, the Enterprise-E's drydock was hanging out over Italy and Northern Africa. Maybe there are Cairo, Tripoli, Tunisia, or Rome shipyards.
On the subject of clutter around Earth in general, I'm sure the devs will exercise restraint. In actual Earth orbit or any scale representation, the many shipyards are tens of thousands of miles/kilometers apart and it would be impossible to see them at any meaningful distance. At the scale of Earth at present having fill shipyards or even anything a little more than a few docks sprinkled around Earth orbit could rapidly become excessive. Especially considering on Holodeck no matter when I go or what instance, Earth Spacedock is always surrounded by a healthy fleet of ships.
That's not all you missed, that Starbase is canon. It is identical to the Spacedock facility in orbit of Utopia Planitia.
And yes Skybox overall in scale is superior. I would've liked to have seen the reactions on Holodeck to that. Oh well.
Thats the station you were on in last years First Contact Mission, there is an exterior map made but was never used.
But you aren't really responding to my supposition. I didn't ask if my map link indicated all canon shipyards. Of course it's incomplete to canon. That was not my point. Because if canon only were followed, all Starfleet shipyards are seen in the northern hemisphere only. Or related to Luna. I asked, based upon the Drydock offerings seen currently on STO's Earth system map, if shifting some of it to the southern hemisphere - away from the established stations - wouldn't go far to acknowledge other players. While also addressing clutter? Would this not be better for the game?