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Official feedback thread for the new Earth Space Dock

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  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Yes, I can only repeat myself here.
    If the reasoning is to have all (social) maps looking uniform, then the proper course of action is to change the other social maps to big planet 2D backdrops as well:

    Earth, Vulcan, Andor (only the planet, the moons should stay as they are), Qo'nos, New Romulus, Bajor, Risa should all be like that.

    Small 3D planet on mission maps is ok for simple gameplay reasons I can accept that.

    But don't tease us with the better solution and then take it away. :mad: ;)
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • tucana66tucana66 Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in the thread (if I missed it)...

    * The interiors are phenomenal. Please DO leave the original ESD on the Foundry, though, as some of us Foundry authors used it in our missions. (And we're keen to have this version available separately, too!)

    * The Earth textures do indeed need improvement. Sorry, but it's true.

    * Can you alternate Starfleet vessel flybys with C-Store ships? It would be a good way to market/upsell what's available. :)

    * There's a conference table area with gold-colored ship models on shelves. Two suggestions: 1.) Remove the chairs at the ends of the table to permit toons to get a closer look at the models, or move the table for easier access; and 2.) I hope you add an assortment of ship models, not a few of the same ship models alongside each other.

    * No complaints about the # of space docks. Forget the Utopia Planitia/Mars argument. Earth is a centerpoint of the Federation. Starfleet is going to station more available ships (even in drydock berths). In Star Trek canon, the Breen attack on Starfleet Academy, the Borg incursion, etc. speak volumes towards this.

    * How about another tailor console elsewhere in the station so we can easily change into off-duty uniforms in leisure areas, instead of traveling to the Tailor's area?

    * Admiral Quinn's office is remarkable! The wall map is right out of TNG/DS9/VOY. Bravo!

    * Lastly, where the lavatory? :)
  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tucana66,

    You can change your outfit anywhere already. Just right click your character icon in the upper left corner and go from there. ;)
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    My Art Lead made the call on Earth, and it's reversion to 3D.

    Hmm, I just assumed you were the art lead.
    adamkafei wrote: »
    It looks alright from a high orbit, the problems arise when you take a low orbit and you start to notice lights in the English Channel that suggest Britain and France are linked by a land-bridge, which as an Englishman, simply won't do :P

    Yes, we allow them to get halfway across the bridge then raise it, problem solved.


    :P
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  • f8explorer#7814 f8explorer Member Posts: 1,328 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    My Art Lead made the call on Earth, and it's reversion to 3D.

    Similarly, he thought that Earth Space felt empty, so he had me add more drydocks around the other side of ESD.

    The Start Spawn is positioned where it is to create a more interesting frame when you first warp in. I'll mess with it.

    The extra warp in points do not collide with any drydocks.

    Can we get an animation where ESD blows up upon warp in? (The Klingon Dream)
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  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tuskin67 wrote: »
    That is the 'Ball' of a science ship behind it

    http://i.imgur.com/6Z1oTj2.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/GNSpCaX.jpg

    that diagram must be new. I like it, though it supports my belief that the ships aren't moored correctly inside the dock. they should be stacked vertically on either side of the "piers" of the central block, or arrayed as they are along the outer wall. having ships positioned on either side of path for the space doors would impeded traffic from the sides.

    second, you should add it to a display at the shipyard. it definitely deserves to be there too for players, especially newer ones, to know what's out there.
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    My Art Lead made the call on Earth, and it's reversion to 3D.

    Similarly, he thought that Earth Space felt empty, so he had me add more drydocks around the other side of ESD.

    The Start Spawn is positioned where it is to create a more interesting frame when you first warp in. I'll mess with it.

    The extra warp in points do not collide with any drydocks.

    considering the size of Starfleet, a large number of box docks is not out of line. and when you consider that a box dock is just a frame with lights and docking hardware to act as a work platform for working on the exterior of a ship, you could easily get a large number of them when accommodating different sizes of ships.

    also something to consider, utopia planitia is involved in building ships and major overhauls. and would have much more involved platforms. i thought mckinnly when i saw it in the series was out of place for earth orbit because of utopia planitia. big e needed some serious repairs after her encounter with the borg. box docks would probably not be very useful most of the time.

    and having them clustered near ESD makes sense too, work on ships within the docks would more easily be staged out of ESD then from earth.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Makes me feel bad about having a Klingon main.

    Honestly, they should let people who have maxed out the Diplomacy/Marauder tree get access to eachothers respective homeworlds, as a diplomatic envoy. :P
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Makes me feel bad about having a Klingon main.

    Honestly, they should let people who have maxed out the Diplomacy/Marauder tree get access to eachothers respective homeworlds, as a diplomatic envoy. :P

    agreed, I've wanted this for a long time now. other than the exploration and the shortcut through the gate, its not much of a perk. additionally, maybe we could get access to some of the duty officer assignments for fed/kdf when in that region of space.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Makes me feel bad about having a Klingon main.

    Honestly, they should let people who have maxed out the Diplomacy/Marauder tree get access to eachothers respective homeworlds, as a diplomatic envoy. :P

    That would be nice. It might inspire more people to try out KDF if they see more of them around.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Makes me feel bad about having a Klingon main.

    Honestly, they should let people who have maxed out the Diplomacy/Marauder tree get access to eachothers respective homeworlds, as a diplomatic envoy. :P

    Club 47 is a lot further away from Admiral Quinn's office now. So no I don't want to see players having to go to the club to get their promotions again.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    That would be nice. It might inspire more people to try out KDF if they see more of them around.

    Federation Klingon playable species unlock in the c-store. Nuff said.
  • millybunmillybun Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    My Art Lead made the call on Earth, and it's reversion to 3D.



    I don't disagree with this. I did enjoy the grandeur upon visiting the previously-altered ESD space map, but on the other hand it did feel less interesting and a little immersion-breaking without Earth being a reachable "physical" object in the map. It's unfortunate that the game engine forces this sort of trade off.

    Personally, after having played games like Starfleet Command and various other Trek games with unrealistically-sized planets, this has never bothered me so long as planets *seem* big. Though sometimes it doesn't always work out (Legacy had some *very* tiny planets), I have *usually* felt STO's planets are sized well enough to keep me from breaking my visual immersion and helping maintain my suspension of disbelief.

    Even with some prior use of a realistically large planet as a background object in STO, it was, as far as I recall, balanced by having other nearby planetary objects to keep us from realizing we could never reach the backdrop planet as part of a mission. This isn't the same for ESD space, which is a social space map basically, "fully explorable" up to a point. Which is why I feel it's important we keep the Earth as an object we can "play around" with, so to speak.



    That aside, and I've yet to check Tribble today to comment on other ESD space map changes, but since there aren't a lot of other things populating the ESD space map, is there no room to upscale the Earth model a bit to take up some more of the playable space? This may help make it seem bigger without removing it as an object in the playable game world that we can fly around, I'd think.
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Club 47 is a lot further away from Admiral Quinn's office now. So no I don't want to see players having to go to the club to get their promotions again.

    i know where I want my promotion to take place.
  • reximuzreximuz Member Posts: 1,172 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    My Art Lead made the call on Earth, and it's reversion to 3D.

    Similarly, he thought that Earth Space felt empty, so he had me add more drydocks around the other side of ESD.

    The Start Spawn is positioned where it is to create a more interesting frame when you first warp in. I'll mess with it.

    The extra warp in points do not collide with any drydocks.

    It looks too busy and cluttered with all the dry docks, there are just way way way way way too many of them.

    Also, there is a Bloom issue on the map, for me at least:

    High Bloom
    Low Bloom
    Off Bloom
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    darlexa wrote: »
    i know where I want my promotion to take place.

    I don't know how to interpret that.

    I was referring to what happened some time last year. For a little while we had KDF players who used an exploit that allowed them access to ESD. Once they beamed into the station the NPCs started attacking them. Often times they would go to Admiral Quinn's office and get him to attack them, and "kite" the Admiral over to the back inside Club 47, hence my response about not wanting players to have to go to Club 47 to talk to Admiral Quinn for their promotion missions to get their free ship tokens and whatnot.

    This happened on a regular basis. NPCs out of place all over the station, security officers wandering around with weapons in their hands, etc.

    In retaliation federation players use the same type of exploit to beam into first city on Qo'nos and attacked Worf, getting him to move out of place.

    I think I saw KDF players on ESD attacking NPCs once or twice but can't remember exactly, and at least once On Qo'nos I saw feds trying to take out the NPCs to get to Worf.

    Cryptic had posted a message on the forums not to post how to do it and to report any players we see doing it and that they will be dealt with. Then soon after they fixed the exploit allowing KDF and fed players to visit their enemy's homeworld.

    So again, no. I don't want KDF to "visit" ESD or feds to "visit" Qo'nos. I am open to it if Cryptic ever decides to officially end the KDF/fed war and make them allies in the game, which would most likely not happen unless they decide to move the game past the year 2409.
  • tancrediivtancrediiv Member Posts: 728 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    reximuz wrote: »
    It looks too busy and cluttered with all the dry docks, there are just way way way way way too many of them.

    Also, there is a Bloom issue on the map, for me at least:

    High Bloom
    Low Bloom
    Off Bloom

    With thousands of starships and all the repairs and refitting constantly going on in STO compared to the 97 total ships in Starfleet during Wolf and the Borg attack, seems we need more drydocks I guess.:D

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  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    capnkirk4 wrote: »
    Anyone know what the subtitle of S9 is yet? Will it actually be called Season 9: Earth Spacedock?
    A New Accord.

    At last. Now to fight the real threat.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    My Art Lead made the call on Earth, and it's reversion to 3D.

    Similarly, he thought that Earth Space felt empty, so he had me add more drydocks around the other side of ESD.

    The Start Spawn is positioned where it is to create a more interesting frame when you first warp in. I'll mess with it.

    The extra warp in points do not collide with any drydocks.

    As one of the people that suggested the Quadra Sigma style gigantic planet backdrop, I'm pretty sorry to see it go, though from an aesthetic perspective I probably won't cry to much. I'm of two minds.

    The 2D backdrop in my feeling was WAYYY too dark. The dark side wasn't illuminated by city lights and the day side was. :confused:

    In many ways it was hard to see at a glance that it was Earth.

    Quadra Sigma by contrast is enormous and incredibly well lit. It also benefits from being below I think. Something about the scale or maybe the idea that it is down. If you think about it every last one of us is used to a planet being below us.

    All I can ask is that the resolution issues get some attention and to make the planet as large as possible. And fix the lights.

    I would still like to have a massive beautiful Earth with towering cloud banks and such visible below us. Maybe even visible intercontinental flights, or regular shuttles to and fro.

    But I know you have a time table and I appreciate the immense amount of work that you guys have put in trying to get this right. I know that there are other environments that need to be worked on and possibly others that will receive their own updates in the future, so after Club 47 is done it may be a while before you get back to Earth. But thanks. Whatever makes it to Holodeck is gonna be awesome. Thank you for listening to us. It means a lot.
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  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    On the subject of the drydocks, I think they should be maybe moved back a few kilometers from Spacedock. Not as far as on Holodeck, but Spacedock itself should be the absolute dominant orbiting structure. So when you warp in seeing smaller docks doesn't really work for me.

    But there is some precedent for it being encircled by smaller docks. Like that shot of Spacedock and the Enterprise in the December 2010 Ships of the Line Calendar by Robert Wilde (which there is no pic of online :confused:)
    http://img.trekmovie.com/images/merchandise/wilde_sotl_2010.jpg

    http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130909211342/startrek/images/0/0b/Earth_Spacedock_under_construction.jpg
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    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    captaind3 wrote: »
    If you're gonna do throwback swing music at least do some original Earth Swing music. This is a proper Starfleet facility not a hole in the wall in a hive of evil on the most important backwater planet on the outskirts of a galaxy far far away.
    maxvitor wrote: »
    We know, but don't give them ideas, the old Club music was bad enough.
    captaind3 wrote: »
    It really was. Must all music in the future be electronic or techno

    I do think the club could use a larger selection of songs than what we have now. Perhaps, a greater variety of music can be added with the revamp of Club 47.
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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited April 2014
    Bloom has already been adjusted. (I fixed it before, but it didn't stick for whatever reason)

    The lights were not off in Europe, the planet was just not rotated enough to SEE Europe.
    I have no way of turning lights off on the lit side of a planet. A planet either has city lights, or it doesn't.

    I think having drydocks in view with ESD helps to sell the enormous scale of ESD.
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  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    I think having drydocks in view with ESD helps to sell the enormous scale of ESD.

    Really? I think it makes it feel smaller.
  • talon2000uktalon2000uk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Baaaah. I liked the other way better.
    kagasensei wrote: »
    No Art Lead can possibly consider this

    Earth_02.png
    Earth_03.png


    to be better than the much more realistic background sprite of Earth we used to have until the last Tribble patch.

    So if it really HAS to be a 3D model, tacofangs has to do some magic and squeeze some time out of his Art Lead (is it still Jeremy Mattson?) in order to be able to replace Earth's texture. I am aware of STO's engine-related limit on maximum texture size, but there has to be a better/more realistic looking alternative than that ugly thing we had to look at for the past 4+ years :-|

    I just want to say that you cant do this

    iVIlYVYI0EEY2.jpg

    With a sprite. Please leave it the way it is.

    Oh and for reference.

    themotionpicture0410-600x252.jpg
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ^ WOOOW

    I'd say that's pretty perfect.

    On that not, let me compliment you guys on the atmosphere. It seems to be a new model and it looks great.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Bloom has already been adjusted. (I fixed it before, but it didn't stick for whatever reason)

    The lights were not off in Europe, the planet was just not rotated enough to SEE Europe.
    I have no way of turning lights off on the lit side of a planet. A planet either has city lights, or it doesn't.
    Really?

    I suppose that makes a small degree of sense. After all when we have engine offline status our nacelles don't go dark. At least I don't think they do.

    I would've thought on the 3D model it was at least by continent. And the static one I thought was just a picture.

    Oh well much better to have the lights on on the dark side.
    I think having drydocks in view with ESD helps to sell the enormous scale of ESD.

    I thought parking our ships near it was more than sufficient.

    I can understand the thinking, it just doesn't bear much for me since I know how huge the thing is. And I still have canon images of Spacedock alone in orbit running through my head.

    As long as you don't go back to the enormous super spacedock complex that was here before you had Q zap the canon Spacedock into existence I think it'll be just fine.
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  • robinsonfamilyrobinsonfamily Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I like the dry docks!
  • kagasenseikagasensei Member Posts: 526 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Bloom has already been adjusted. (I fixed it before, but it didn't stick for whatever reason)

    The lights were not off in Europe, the planet was just not rotated enough to SEE Europe.
    I have no way of turning lights off on the lit side of a planet. A planet either has city lights, or it doesn't.

    I think having drydocks in view with ESD helps to sell the enormous scale of ESD.

    Please consider giving Earth a better texture. This just looks... unsatisfying:

    Earth_02.png

    It is blocky and unrealistic. The colors look unnatural...

    Compare: world.topo.200408.3x21600x10800.jpg

    Also: Why are there so many more lights on Earth? I would assume Roddenberry's humanity to give nature MORE and not less space than it does today.
  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I like the dry docks as well but I think they may be too close to the warp in point for ships. And I don't know about the Earth in the space view now, the one attached to the sky map before looked great, but this one when there is any bloom or glare off the oceans just looks terrible, the reflecting surface does not follow the continental surfaces but rather has a blocky artificial look. With atmospheric diffusion I don't think the Earth would have glare off its' surface like that anyway, small areas of reflection perhaps but none of this blinding planet on fire glare nonsense, at least I have never seen space based photographs that look anything like that.
    kagasensei wrote: »
    Compare: world.topo.200408.3x21600x10800.jpg
    That would be way more detail than needed, but certainly something better than the current image is required.
    kagasensei wrote: »
    Also: Why are there so many more lights on Earth? I would assume Roddenberry's humanity to give nature MORE and not less space than it does today.
    While I imagine humanity has moved its manufacturing off world, The Moon and Mars getting the Lions share, they aren't going to completely abandon their homeworld and Earth is essentially the Capital of the Federation. Where there are people there are the trappings of civilization.
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  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I don't know how to interpret that.

    I was referring to what happened some time last year. For a little while we had KDF players who used an exploit that allowed them access to ESD. Once they beamed into the station the NPCs started attacking them. Often times they would go to Admiral Quinn's office and get him to attack them, and "kite" the Admiral over to the back inside Club 47, hence my response about not wanting players to have to go to Club 47 to talk to Admiral Quinn for their promotion missions to get their free ship tokens and whatnot.

    This happened on a regular basis. NPCs out of place all over the station, security officers wandering around with weapons in their hands, etc.

    In retaliation federation players use the same type of exploit to beam into first city on Qo'nos and attacked Worf, getting him to move out of place.

    I think I saw KDF players on ESD attacking NPCs once or twice but can't remember exactly, and at least once On Qo'nos I saw feds trying to take out the NPCs to get to Worf.

    Cryptic had posted a message on the forums not to post how to do it and to report any players we see doing it and that they will be dealt with. Then soon after they fixed the exploit allowing KDF and fed players to visit their enemy's homeworld.

    So again, no. I don't want KDF to "visit" ESD or feds to "visit" Qo'nos. I am open to it if Cryptic ever decides to officially end the KDF/fed war and make them allies in the game, which would most likely not happen unless they decide to move the game past the year 2409.

    that's hilarious. im sorry i missed out on that. i can imagine sitting there watching the fun while eating dinner. or helping the npc's repel borders.

    obviously, it would need some programming for the game to recognize a foreign faction/aligned character as non-hostile, but it would make the maxed diplomacy more useful to get something other than right of passage and another transwarp destination out of it.
  • sfc#5932 sfc Member Posts: 992 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    http://puu.sh/83RW3.jpg
    As you can see in the image the new ship readout is very, very, blurry. And also, its been misspelled Hipocrates. I'm assuming this is the same old ship from Task Force Hippocrates, so kudos for continuity.
  • llywarchllywarch Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    There is an NPC in the future club 47 wearing the Advance Oddy uniform. Any chance we will get this sometime soon?
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