The thing is, given the age of the galaxy, it's probable that starfaring races have been around for millions of years before humans even existed. So, why did none of them move in and take over Earth back when it was still uninhabited? Earth would have been prime real estate for colonization by anybody who likes our kind of climate. We would have to posit that absolutely NOBODY violated the Prime Directive for millions of years in order for Earth to remain unoccupied. It's more likely that our nearest neighbors (assuming that there ARE starfaring races out there) are incompatible with our climate and/or biochemistry (e.g. like the Tholians), thus they don't care for our planet.
Another thought regarding SETI: In Star Trek, ordinary radio seems to be superseded by subspace radio for long-range communications as early as Archer's era. It's probably only a matter of time before a civilization abandons high-power radio-spectrum broadcasting in favor of something more efficient (laser communication for example, which experiences far less signal loss as long as you can point the transmitter at the receiver). Essentially we will be looking for primitive communication signals that the aliens abandoned long ago, and not noticing the more sophisticated ones that they are using.
Another thought regarding SETI: In Star Trek, ordinary radio seems to be superseded by subspace radio for long-range communications as early as Archer's era. It's probably only a matter of time before a civilization abandons high-power radio-spectrum broadcasting in favor of something more efficient (laser communication for example, which experiences far less signal loss as long as you can point the transmitter at the receiver). Essentially we will be looking for primitive communication signals that the aliens abandoned long ago, and not noticing the more sophisticated ones that they are using.
I have always thought this, thus the reason I believe SETI should broaden its instruments to detect other communication spectrums or close shop, because unless the other civilization is on par with us technologically, we're likely looking for something that the aliens haven't used in ages.
I have always thought this, thus the reason I believe SETI should broaden its instruments to detect other communication spectrums or close shop, because unless the other civilization is on par with us technologically, we're likely looking for something that the aliens haven't used in ages.
I don't know, there might be the extraterrestrial equivelant of HAM radio hobbyists out there.
... ugh, I think I just helped make your point for you. I don't think I want to deal with those kinds of people.
I have always thought this, thus the reason I believe SETI should broaden its instruments to detect other communication spectrums or close shop, because unless the other civilization is on par with us technologically, we're likely looking for something that the aliens haven't used in ages.
I have always thought this, thus the reason I believe SETI should broaden its instruments to detect other communication spectrums or close shop, because unless the other civilization is on par with us technologically, we're likely looking for something that the aliens haven't used in ages.
The problem with "detecting other spectra" is that whatever the aliens are using may be something that we haven't even invented detectors for yet, and maybe haven't even imagined yet. Maybe they use modulated graviton pulses or neutrino bursts. Maybe they use some particle that isn't even part of our current quantum theory. In that case, we would have as much trouble detecting them as Leonardo da Vinci would have with detecting a television broadcast.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,145Community Moderator
edited February 2014
As much as I would love to say hello to our galactic neighbors...
I think it's funny the doomsdayers who insist that all aliens want to do when they come here is conquer us... Does no one but me (and a very select few) believe aliens will actually "come in peace?"
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
The problem with "detecting other spectra" is that whatever the aliens are using may be something that we haven't even invented detectors for yet, and maybe haven't even imagined yet. Maybe they use modulated graviton pulses or neutrino bursts. Maybe they use some particle that isn't even part of our current quantum theory. In that case, we would have as much trouble detecting them as Leonardo da Vinci would have with detecting a television broadcast.
A fair point, but it couldn't hurt trying to expand to detect the technologies we can think of. All SETI listens to is radio waves, period. That's so limited.
People tend to assume that aliens who contact us will either want to befriend us, or to destroy us. But what about the unsettling possibility that we wouldn't be able to tell the difference? The Borg are raising the quality of life for those they welcome into the collective, bringing them closer to perfection.
The Flood in Halo have been described as a utopian society with no poverty, racism, or sexism, or class division, and they want to share that with everyone.
In the short story "The Things" the Thing sees us as broken and dysfunctional, and in the end decides consuming humanity would be helping us.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,145Community Moderator
edited February 2014
Either way... thing would change big time.
Wait... the Flood had a society? I thought they just consumed everything with enough biomass?
Food might actually be a reason for aliens to visit us. Each sentient race would have their own cuisine and it is easy enough to replicate any meal if the race is advanced enough. After all, food is mostly composed of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen with a few other trace elements. Rearranging these elements into the right patterns can create any food we want.
Another reason is art which includes paintings, novels, sculptures, and music. We already do this with tribal art so it would not be surprising if aliens do it to us. And the benefit to this is that we wouldn't even need to know they ever visited. We already made it easy for them to grab most of our art with Kindle and iTunes. Grabbing our paintings and sculptures would just require a visit to museums.
For that matter, even if it's the people meat they're after, there are ways to do that without technically harming a single human being. Check out Larry Niven's short story, "Assimilating Our Culture, That's What They're Doing!" The Gligstith(pop)optok paid rather handsome licensing fees to the first humans to visit their world - so they could clone the humans, and eat the cloned meat.
Nobody's going to raid our planet for resources, though. Anything they could want from Earth besides life is far more abundant in the outer solar system. That was why I couldn't understand how anyone could fall for the aliens' plot in V. They want our water? For starters, Saturn's rings are mostly water, and the ice can be gathered up and melted much more easily than lifting water from the bottom of our great heavy gravity well...
I think it's funny the doomsdayers who insist that all aliens want to do when they come here is conquer us... Does no one but me (and a very select few) believe aliens will actually "come in peace?"
CM
There's a difference between what you believe and what the statistical probability of a reality is based on an educated guess.
If we want to see what two sentient, alien species of similar intelligence are like when they interact with each other for the first time, we need only look at our own history when we've made contact with undiscovered human inhabitants we didn't know existed before.
People would like to believe it would end up like Star Trek: First Contact.
The unfortunate reality is it would be the alternate reality in the Mirror Universe where we kill the alien beings and steal their stuff.
And since any intelligence would be smart enough to know our destructive natures if they decided to reveal themselves to us, they'd beat us to the punch and make the first move while we're staring at them in awe.
I wouldn't call Stephen Hawking a doomsayer. He's been wrong before, but I'll trust his educated opinion over what I wish were true.
I think it's funny the doomsdayers who insist that all aliens want to do when they come here is conquer us... Does no one but me (and a very select few) believe aliens will actually "come in peace?"
CM
That's a big mistake on their part, as humans sure as hell won't be coming in peace. We'd either ostracize them for being different than us, try to force them into conformity with us or outright kill them and salvage their tech for our own gain.
If they truly are "intelligent" life, they will avoid us as much as possible and keep a ray gun pointed at our temples if we end up getting to close for comfort. We're not the Federation. We're the Terran Empire.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
The above quote is the indicator to the real question: Even if we make contact with another species, is it worth it to them to respond? Let's not kid ourselves here, we're nowhere close to being culturally tolerant enough to be the Federation and I doubt we will be in 26 years. Any species that looks at us now would wonder how a race that hates itself so viciously could ever be accepting of an entire separate species or even think about peace period. There's a reason why, in Star Trek, the Ferengi are the allegory of modern 21st century humans.
They don't know how tolerant, intelligent or whatever we are until they make contact and we exchange information. Unless they have really good space telescopes.
And of course it's worth it, simply because it's interestnig to see other life.
But of course, "detecting alien life" doesn't mean:
- Intelligent Life
- Being able to contact it
Given that we weren't able to detect any planets outside our own solar system few decades ago and now we can, it seems not an unreasonable suggestion that we can analyze planetary bodies in sufficient detail to figure out if they have life.
nope.
no space faring race will be TRIBBLE or inept enough to think non ftl communication methods will be useful for inter-stellar comminications.
if an alien race is using EM communications they are purposefully seeking technologically inferior races.
at which point, the question becomes, "why?"
Maybe the reason is: "EM signals are the most primitive and worst form of communicating with other intelligent life in space. Unfortunately, it's also the only one."
A fair point, but it couldn't hurt trying to expand to detect the technologies we can think of. All SETI listens to is radio waves, period. That's so limited.
What else would you listen too? We can only listen to stuff we know.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I think it was Arthur C Clarke who wrote a scenario where the aliens had a more advanced scientific base, but a considerably less advanced ability to make efficient technology.
Basically it was a juxtaposition of advanced tech vs sophisticated tech.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
People fail to realize what if those said aliens are hostile like war of the worlds movie. We shoot our own foots contacting our exterminators to kill us.
People fail to realize what if those said aliens are hostile like war of the worlds movie. We shoot our own foots contacting our exterminators to kill us.
And what if they hold the cure to all the world's diseases, or want to help us get into space? The universe is full of 'what ifs'.
I feel this is somewhat appropriate. Even if it's not, it's pretty damn funny.
And what if they hold the cure to all the world's diseases, or want to help us get into space? The universe is full of 'what ifs'.
I feel this is somewhat appropriate. Even if it's not, it's pretty damn funny.
That is wishful thinking, any Alien race coming here is more than likely looking for something, throughout history in examples of two cultures coming into contact with each other, it has never turned out well for the less advanced culture. As advance as our technology is, to a space faring race we are primitive savages.
This scientist is making these claims based on a lot of assumptions.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
That is wishful thinking, any Alien race coming here is more than likely looking for something, throughout history in examples of two cultures coming into contact with each other, it has never turned out well for the less advanced culture. As advance as our technology is, to a space faring race we are primitive savages.
This scientist is making these claims based on a lot of assumptions.
Oh, no doubt, but I'd ask people to reread the OP or even my original post after the OP.
Detecting alien life =/= contacting alien life.
Besides, it's fair to assume that a species who are technologically advanced may also be culturally enlightened and benevolent.
if we meet aliens, they're going to have to deal w years of variating human expectations, and i just dont think they're emotionally ready for that, especially after the break up last week
Comments
Another thought regarding SETI: In Star Trek, ordinary radio seems to be superseded by subspace radio for long-range communications as early as Archer's era. It's probably only a matter of time before a civilization abandons high-power radio-spectrum broadcasting in favor of something more efficient (laser communication for example, which experiences far less signal loss as long as you can point the transmitter at the receiver). Essentially we will be looking for primitive communication signals that the aliens abandoned long ago, and not noticing the more sophisticated ones that they are using.
I have always thought this, thus the reason I believe SETI should broaden its instruments to detect other communication spectrums or close shop, because unless the other civilization is on par with us technologically, we're likely looking for something that the aliens haven't used in ages.
I don't know, there might be the extraterrestrial equivelant of HAM radio hobbyists out there.
... ugh, I think I just helped make your point for you. I don't think I want to deal with those kinds of people.
Or something they haven't developed yet.
The problem with "detecting other spectra" is that whatever the aliens are using may be something that we haven't even invented detectors for yet, and maybe haven't even imagined yet. Maybe they use modulated graviton pulses or neutrino bursts. Maybe they use some particle that isn't even part of our current quantum theory. In that case, we would have as much trouble detecting them as Leonardo da Vinci would have with detecting a television broadcast.
Anyone remember what happened in Battleship?
CM
A fair point, but it couldn't hurt trying to expand to detect the technologies we can think of. All SETI listens to is radio waves, period. That's so limited.
The Flood in Halo have been described as a utopian society with no poverty, racism, or sexism, or class division, and they want to share that with everyone.
In the short story "The Things" the Thing sees us as broken and dysfunctional, and in the end decides consuming humanity would be helping us.
Wait... the Flood had a society? I thought they just consumed everything with enough biomass?
They had enough intelligence to operate advanced technology, and through the gravemind, they had (albeit simple) hierarchical organization.
Another reason is art which includes paintings, novels, sculptures, and music. We already do this with tribal art so it would not be surprising if aliens do it to us. And the benefit to this is that we wouldn't even need to know they ever visited. We already made it easy for them to grab most of our art with Kindle and iTunes. Grabbing our paintings and sculptures would just require a visit to museums.
Nobody's going to raid our planet for resources, though. Anything they could want from Earth besides life is far more abundant in the outer solar system. That was why I couldn't understand how anyone could fall for the aliens' plot in V. They want our water? For starters, Saturn's rings are mostly water, and the ice can be gathered up and melted much more easily than lifting water from the bottom of our great heavy gravity well...
There's a difference between what you believe and what the statistical probability of a reality is based on an educated guess.
If we want to see what two sentient, alien species of similar intelligence are like when they interact with each other for the first time, we need only look at our own history when we've made contact with undiscovered human inhabitants we didn't know existed before.
People would like to believe it would end up like Star Trek: First Contact.
The unfortunate reality is it would be the alternate reality in the Mirror Universe where we kill the alien beings and steal their stuff.
And since any intelligence would be smart enough to know our destructive natures if they decided to reveal themselves to us, they'd beat us to the punch and make the first move while we're staring at them in awe.
I wouldn't call Stephen Hawking a doomsayer. He's been wrong before, but I'll trust his educated opinion over what I wish were true.
That's a big mistake on their part, as humans sure as hell won't be coming in peace. We'd either ostracize them for being different than us, try to force them into conformity with us or outright kill them and salvage their tech for our own gain.
If they truly are "intelligent" life, they will avoid us as much as possible and keep a ray gun pointed at our temples if we end up getting to close for comfort. We're not the Federation. We're the Terran Empire.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
They don't know how tolerant, intelligent or whatever we are until they make contact and we exchange information. Unless they have really good space telescopes.
And of course it's worth it, simply because it's interestnig to see other life.
But of course, "detecting alien life" doesn't mean:
- Intelligent Life
- Being able to contact it
Given that we weren't able to detect any planets outside our own solar system few decades ago and now we can, it seems not an unreasonable suggestion that we can analyze planetary bodies in sufficient detail to figure out if they have life.
Maybe the reason is: "EM signals are the most primitive and worst form of communicating with other intelligent life in space. Unfortunately, it's also the only one."
What else would you listen too? We can only listen to stuff we know.
Basically it was a juxtaposition of advanced tech vs sophisticated tech.
My character Tsin'xing
The discovery of alien life .....we find the pakleds and must try to find a way to make them "GO".
We become enslaved to the pakled until 100 years later someone discovers red paint the pakleds leave because now they "GO" fatser.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
This is brilliant. Thumbs up to you, sir!
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
You sir move to the front of the class and be observed as the genius you are
And what if they hold the cure to all the world's diseases, or want to help us get into space? The universe is full of 'what ifs'.
I feel this is somewhat appropriate. Even if it's not, it's pretty damn funny.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
This scientist is making these claims based on a lot of assumptions.
Oh, no doubt, but I'd ask people to reread the OP or even my original post after the OP.
Detecting alien life =/= contacting alien life.
Besides, it's fair to assume that a species who are technologically advanced may also be culturally enlightened and benevolent.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
My character Tsin'xing
Or giant insects. :P
Or Pakleds.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood