True but I assume that the Iconians are responsible for their ability to actually construct a sphere (having the servant race use Iconian technology to do the construction).
It'll no doubt turn out that way. If anything happens in STO, it's the Iconians that did it.
Also true, but when the cloak shuts off the phasing goes away so the matter is thus intersecting (ship+asteroid) and there was no nasty explosion (how disappointing :P ) so I think unfortunately that can be extrapolated to if the shell of the sphere intersected a planet when it came out (regardless of phasing) there wouldn't be any terrible energy release from atoms trying to occupy the same location. Of course there would still be all kinds of regular nastiness with magma and gravitational shearing and explodings of various varieties. I'm just guessing though. I'd prefer the antimatter-esque doomsplosion.
Ah, yes, good point. I'd forgotten the Pegasus dephased in the middle of the asteroid. I guess it'll just do the same with the planet. And cause geographical issues for it, without having the two halves just start floating off, but rather be stuck in the hull, at least until it jumps again.
There's no worry about what's already there when you jump. The whole point of folding space to move faster than light is that you're not moving the object, you're moving space. When you move space to the point that you directly connect two distant points, you're taking the space you're in with you.
I admit, I'm not a astrophycisis, or drive phycisis, so I'm not knowledgable in how space fold drive works. But if it took the space with it, and jumped to a point with a star system, would it just move the system at it's destination along to fit itself in? Or would it just bump itself along to fit in?
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
I admit, I'm not a astrophycisis, or drive phycisis, so I'm not knowledgable in how space fold drive works. But if it took the space with it, and jumped to a point with a star system, would it just move the system at it's destination along to fit itself in? Or would it just bump itself along to fit in?
Real World? It's all theoretical and we don't know.
In universe? Well, different works by different authors will often have different explanations. One author might say that exiting hyperspace creates a "wake" that pushes things away from you as you exit. Needless to say a Dyson Sphere would create a massive one....
The phasing cloak thing is different in that it wasn't a drive system at all.
But... it's still conjecture since we don't know how the drive system that the spheres use works in-universe.
I love how many of these post pertaining to "unreal" or "impossible" technology refer replicators as part of that. We are actually on our way, if anyone has forgotten about these; 3D Printers
The reality is that we know virtually nothing about Omega Particles. For all we know these Particles could be what Q, and other god-like species, naturally absorb or exude to give them their magic-like abilities.
The fact that these particles can be used to fold space is no more unusual in a Trek environment then slingshot time travel, energy ribbons that travel around the galaxy every 8 decades, whale probes that vaporize atmosphere, or a sentient V'gers which is several AU across and producing impossible amounts of energy as it moves through the galaxy.
This is Trek, and always has been.
I agree with all of this, especially the point that the full properties of the omega particle are unknown. Plus lets not forget the new fe is the latest episode of Star Trek Voyager: A show with a magic ship that repairs itself after every episode and never runs out of torpedoes.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
I agree with all of this, especially the point that the full properties of the omega particle are unknown. Plus lets not forget the new fe is the latest episode of Star Trek Voyager: A show with a magic ship that repairs itself after every episode and never runs out of torpedoes.
Yeah, because there's not the boring task of gathering supplies and doing repairs in the time between episodes. Because each episode represents the next day... :rolleyes:
Just because current science says it can't happen, doesn't mean it can't happen.
That, and even if it actually can't happen IRL, that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen in fiction. The point of fiction is to give the audience something that they can't experience IRL. If the story is exactly what the writer meant to portray(physics, society, etc), whether the audience chooses to apply suspension of disbelief or not isn't at the fault of the fiction.
They've had an on-again, off-again relationship since TOS, but Star Trek waved bye-bye to hard science forever the day the Voyager found a "crack" in the event horizon of a singularity. And it's never looked back.
cryptic has the jem hadar attack ship with more firepower than a Galaxy class
How much more sci fantasy can it get ?
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
cryptic has the jem hadar attack ship with more firepower than a Galaxy class
How much more sci fantasy can it get ?
Considering a Galaxy, the Odyssey, was taken out by a bug ramming into its neck, and the Enterprise D was destroyed by, and captured once by, outdated B'rels, I do not see the firepower issue as being too far from the truth.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Considering a Galaxy, the Odyssey, was taken out by a bug ramming into its neck, and the Enterprise D was destroyed by, and captured once by, outdated B'rels, I do not see the firepower issue as being too far from the truth.
after all 3 shot it with no shields for 10 minute's and still didnt take it down , They had to ram it to keep them from leaving
3x JHAS firepower cant take out a non shielded Galaxy class in 10 minutes
Thats weak
The BOPs took out there impulse engine in orbit i believe causing the ship to crash land ... may be wrong but i think thats how it was played out
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
after all 3 shot it with no shields for 10 minute's and still didnt take it down , They had to ram it to keep them from leaving
3x JHAS firepower cant take out a non shielded Galaxy class in 10 minutes
Thats weak
It was not even close to 10 minutes.
The BOPs took out there impulse engine in orbit i believe causing the ship to crash land ... may be wrong but i think thats how it was played out
It does not matter what it hit, just that it happened.
And do not forget the B'rel in Rascals that was full of Ferengi which captured the ship when Picard was a child.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
what the fork??? i just played it, because i didn't have time last week, and i can't believe what i heard. a dyson sphere can't be moved, there's just no way. i don't care how much energy you've got, it just ain't happening. okay maybe Q, but that's the only way.
star trek is sci-fi, not fantasy. you can't just make something like that happen just because it would be cool. this is why sci-fi tv shows have science advisors. cryptic, you are in desperate need of a good trek advisor. please... you need someone to stop you from doing ridiculous things like this.
am i not crazy being irked about this, or is everyone else swallowing it?
Throughout Trek is theoretical science that became reality for the real world many years later. While other idea's just haven't. Or haven't yet. Something worth recalling is that Roddenberry did have access to real scientists who sometimes acted as Science Advisors for the scripts being considered. Which shouldn't be confused with the thought that the Science Advisor was always consulted or listened to.
The only issue I might have with most Featured Episodes for STO are that they are created for play through in a computer game. It's a the limitation of this format that doesn't permit near the level of conversation necessary to relate detailed science - or what we call treknobabble. I agree that we could always use more in certain contexts. In this mission as well as others. This is why some of our fellow player's support and demand quality resources for The Foundry. So as to create the level of depth that general content doesn't or can't take the time to provide.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
I didn't read the entire thread but... I don't really see the problem,
1st: There IS difference between sic fi and fantasy, yes. And, at least until some point Star Trek was Sci fi, not fantasy (unlike Star Wars for example)..
2nd: I find it hilarious what people swallow as "scientific" or science fiction, but then complain about stuff that is, in that terms, quiet harmless.
Assuming that FTL travel is possible..... what are supposed limits to that?
We are speaking about a Dyson sphere.
Think about what this is:
Its not a natural thing, no, someone build a landmass surrounding a sun. If someone is capable of doing that, and you are willing to accept this, why is it in any way hard to believe that they move it?
Its a pretty limited view, I believe.
People have obviously very little idea of the scales in the "real" universe, there are stars that alone are far bigger then our entire solar system.
So when going with faster then light travel in the first place, why should the size matter?
The exact method of the Spheres travel is, I believe, not mentioned.
So lets go with something scientific "possible": A wormhole. May be it created an artificial wormhole to travel.
What are the known limits to a wormholes size? Hard to believe there are any.
I do not want to defend cryptics story writing, that fails often enough. But not at this point.....
You're complaining about the impossibility of moving a Dyson sphere--without complaining of the impossibility of the existence of a Dyson sphere. The very existence of a Dyson sphere is just as impossible as it would be to move said Dyson sphere.
Just the amount of resources required to build the thing is beyond any kind of imagination. Even in a Star Trek universe, where they can fabricate things out of nothing with just a few presses of a button.
If you're going to fuss about how impossible it is to move a Dyson sphere--you need to go down to fussing about how impossible it is for one to even exist.
It's like arguing why you can beam down to a planet but not beam across the galaxy. Both are feats of the imagination at our current technology--so why argue it?
It's fiction, and I'm game for suspending my belief for the fun of the fiction.
First shot fired at 2:05, rammed at 3:51, for 1:46 start to finish. But, the Odyssey isn't taking fire for the last chunk of it. Her captain gives the order to retreat at 3:25, last hit is hard to gauge on interior shots but seems to be just before the 3:20 mark. They take no more fire after this point.
So, yeah, 1:20 of combat, and the Odyssey was trashed - lights were out, warp drive offline, communications dead, all manner of systems offline. The Jem'hadar could have destroyed it easily with another pass, and only rammed it to send a message.
That's not sad at all. Not many enemies managed to do the same against a Galaxy-class ship, even while the Enterprise-D was getting itself kicked up and down the quadrant it didn't take this kind of damage until Riker faceplanted the battle with the Duras. Even the Borg didn't hit it that hard, and they also had the benefit of no shields much of the time.
I'm more annoyed by Coopers "evil" plan to open a gateway between two Dyson Spheres in the delta quadrant so the Undine can attack the Federation/Klingons/Romulans in the alpha quadrant.
You know, the species that lives in a different universe and can travel between them at will.
I'm more annoyed by Coopers "evil" plan to open a gateway between two Dyson Spheres in the delta quadrant so the Undine can attack the Federation/Klingons/Romulans in the alpha quadrant.
You know, the species that lives in a different universe and can travel between them at will.
I think that "at will" is a an exaggeration. We don't know all the specifics, but it does appear that the Undine need to use something far more elaborate than a fancy warp drive.
I think that "at will" is a an exaggeration. We don't know all the specifics, but it does appear that the Undine need to use something far more elaborate than a fancy warp drive.
They require quantum singularities in our dimension to leave Fluidic Space.
It seems logical that having a gateway to the Delta Quadrant, where a large number of Undine might be stationed, is more practical then looking for quantum singularities throughout the Alpha Quadrant to come through.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
They require quantum singularities in our dimension to leave Fluidic Space.
It seems logical that having a gateway to the Delta Quadrant, where a large number of Undine might be stationed, is more practical then looking for quantum singularities throughout the Alpha Quadrant to come through.
If they use quantum singularities to enter our universe. Does it not mean they came in through the Romulans?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
If they use quantum singularities to enter our universe. Does it not mean they came in through the Romulans?
I imagine the various Voyager writers never gave it that much thought - as they were not dealing with Romulans. I assume the singularity needs to be large enough to get a ship through, though - but it would be interesting to see individual Undine popping onto Romulan ships through the engine room.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I imagine the various Voyager writers never gave it that much thought - as they were not dealing with Romulans. I assume the singularity needs to be large enough to get a ship through, though - but it would be interesting to see individual Undine popping onto Romulan ships through the engine room.
And now we have a story idea!
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Comments
It'll no doubt turn out that way. If anything happens in STO, it's the Iconians that did it.
Ah, yes, good point. I'd forgotten the Pegasus dephased in the middle of the asteroid. I guess it'll just do the same with the planet. And cause geographical issues for it, without having the two halves just start floating off, but rather be stuck in the hull, at least until it jumps again.
I admit, I'm not a astrophycisis, or drive phycisis, so I'm not knowledgable in how space fold drive works. But if it took the space with it, and jumped to a point with a star system, would it just move the system at it's destination along to fit itself in? Or would it just bump itself along to fit in?
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
In universe? Well, different works by different authors will often have different explanations. One author might say that exiting hyperspace creates a "wake" that pushes things away from you as you exit. Needless to say a Dyson Sphere would create a massive one....
The phasing cloak thing is different in that it wasn't a drive system at all.
But... it's still conjecture since we don't know how the drive system that the spheres use works in-universe.
My character Tsin'xing
I agree with all of this, especially the point that the full properties of the omega particle are unknown. Plus lets not forget the new fe is the latest episode of Star Trek Voyager: A show with a magic ship that repairs itself after every episode and never runs out of torpedoes.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Yeah, because there's not the boring task of gathering supplies and doing repairs in the time between episodes. Because each episode represents the next day... :rolleyes:
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I read that comment and think of all the Faulkner and Joyce I've had to read for school and question the validity of that statement.
How much more sci fantasy can it get ?
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
after all 3 shot it with no shields for 10 minute's and still didnt take it down , They had to ram it to keep them from leaving
3x JHAS firepower cant take out a non shielded Galaxy class in 10 minutes
Thats weak
The BOPs took out there impulse engine in orbit i believe causing the ship to crash land ... may be wrong but i think thats how it was played out
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
It does not matter what it hit, just that it happened.
And do not forget the B'rel in Rascals that was full of Ferengi which captured the ship when Picard was a child.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdOPBP9vuZA
Andre Boramis is one example. Carolyn Porco is a more recent one.
The only issue I might have with most Featured Episodes for STO are that they are created for play through in a computer game. It's a the limitation of this format that doesn't permit near the level of conversation necessary to relate detailed science - or what we call treknobabble. I agree that we could always use more in certain contexts. In this mission as well as others. This is why some of our fellow player's support and demand quality resources for The Foundry. So as to create the level of depth that general content doesn't or can't take the time to provide.
1st: There IS difference between sic fi and fantasy, yes. And, at least until some point Star Trek was Sci fi, not fantasy (unlike Star Wars for example)..
2nd: I find it hilarious what people swallow as "scientific" or science fiction, but then complain about stuff that is, in that terms, quiet harmless.
Assuming that FTL travel is possible..... what are supposed limits to that?
We are speaking about a Dyson sphere.
Think about what this is:
Its not a natural thing, no, someone build a landmass surrounding a sun. If someone is capable of doing that, and you are willing to accept this, why is it in any way hard to believe that they move it?
Its a pretty limited view, I believe.
People have obviously very little idea of the scales in the "real" universe, there are stars that alone are far bigger then our entire solar system.
So when going with faster then light travel in the first place, why should the size matter?
The exact method of the Spheres travel is, I believe, not mentioned.
So lets go with something scientific "possible": A wormhole. May be it created an artificial wormhole to travel.
What are the known limits to a wormholes size? Hard to believe there are any.
I do not want to defend cryptics story writing, that fails often enough. But not at this point.....
You're complaining about the impossibility of moving a Dyson sphere--without complaining of the impossibility of the existence of a Dyson sphere. The very existence of a Dyson sphere is just as impossible as it would be to move said Dyson sphere.
Just the amount of resources required to build the thing is beyond any kind of imagination. Even in a Star Trek universe, where they can fabricate things out of nothing with just a few presses of a button.
If you're going to fuss about how impossible it is to move a Dyson sphere--you need to go down to fussing about how impossible it is for one to even exist.
It's like arguing why you can beam down to a planet but not beam across the galaxy. Both are feats of the imagination at our current technology--so why argue it?
It's fiction, and I'm game for suspending my belief for the fun of the fiction.
Didn't anyone read "Dune?"
Even if you count from when they left DS9 it clocks in at less than 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyttwwrbdyk
First shot fired at 2:05, rammed at 3:51, for 1:46 start to finish. But, the Odyssey isn't taking fire for the last chunk of it. Her captain gives the order to retreat at 3:25, last hit is hard to gauge on interior shots but seems to be just before the 3:20 mark. They take no more fire after this point.
So, yeah, 1:20 of combat, and the Odyssey was trashed - lights were out, warp drive offline, communications dead, all manner of systems offline. The Jem'hadar could have destroyed it easily with another pass, and only rammed it to send a message.
That's not sad at all. Not many enemies managed to do the same against a Galaxy-class ship, even while the Enterprise-D was getting itself kicked up and down the quadrant it didn't take this kind of damage until Riker faceplanted the battle with the Duras. Even the Borg didn't hit it that hard, and they also had the benefit of no shields much of the time.
It's a Dyson Sphere. That's not entirely fictional. It's based on real life scientific theories.
You know, the species that lives in a different universe and can travel between them at will.
And still it is much more unrealistic to artificially build one in the first place then to move an object of that size & mass....
And the biggest fun of all that: Faster then light traveling, base for all of that, is even more unrealistic...
My character Tsin'xing
It seems logical that having a gateway to the Delta Quadrant, where a large number of Undine might be stationed, is more practical then looking for quantum singularities throughout the Alpha Quadrant to come through.
If they use quantum singularities to enter our universe. Does it not mean they came in through the Romulans?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
And now we have a story idea!
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'