Keep in mind that it would require a mind-blowing amount of material - thousands, if not millions of Earths' worth - just to be able to build a complete enclosure around a star with a radius comparable to Earth's orbit around our sun.
If you can swallow that, not to mention the idea of fighting dinosaurs with head-mounted laser beams inside said enclosure, for the purposes of a game, then being able to move said enclosure from one part of the galaxy to another really isn't that much more of a reach, is it?
Keep in mind that it would require a mind-blowing amount of material - thousands, if not millions of Earths' worth - just to be able to build a complete enclosure around a star with a radius comparable to Earth's orbit around our sun.
If you can swallow that, not to mention the idea of fighting dinosaurs with head-mounted laser beams inside said enclosure, for the purposes of a game, then being able to move said enclosure from one part of the galaxy to another really isn't that much more of a reach, is it?
That's pretty much the standard internet aggression there. Get challenged and then start attacking the person's reading comprehension.
Did you call the OP crazy? Yes? Then you're really one of the lazy people I was referring to.
Instead of pointing out that Trek is rooted in science and that there can indeed be a very plausible, fun, Trek-style explanation for how this is achieved, you spout off at the person calling them crazy and saying that this is easy to suspend disbelief because it's the MAGIC of Fiction.
Might as well just say that it happened because the Sorting Hat put Tuvok in Hufflepuff. (In case you missed it due to bad reading comprehension, I was making a pop culture reference to a really popular fictional series there).
EDIT: I will eventually post something mathematical. It may take awhile. I did far better at verbal than math on my SATs. So don't hold your breath or anything. How awesome will it be to get attacked for any math I do post though? I personally can't wait.
Might as well just say that it happened because the Sorting Hat put Tuvok in Hufflepuff. (In case you missed it due to bad reading comprehension, I was making a pop culture reference to a really popular fictional series there).
Did you call the OP crazy? Yes? Then you're really one of the lazy people I was referring to.
The OP specifically asked if he was crazy for feeling that way. Never ask a question you do not want the answer to.
Instead of pointing out that Trek is rooted in science and that there can indeed be a very plausible, fun, Trek-style explanation for how this is achieved, you spout off at the person calling them crazy and saying that this is easy to suspend disbelief because it's the MAGIC of Fiction.
Star Trek was only rooted in science when any particular episode writer wanted it to be. The rest of the time it was all hand-waved under the umbrella of technobabble or magic.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
while im not upset at the notion of a dyson sphere space fold , which in my mind what the jenolan sphere did . i would think that the changes in gravity and other forces would have been detected by the different Unities of the alpha quadrant .
in ST generations the destruction of stars showed a change in gravity and caused starships to recalculate coarse based on these events . it even changed the coarse of the ribbon .
cause and effect . there is none of this that i can see with the event mentioned in the FE .
this to me leaves a hole in the story telling . of why didnt anyone realize the localized change in the jenolan sphere area? i mean someone would have noticed .
If Omega particles are what is used to make the jump, the Enterprise D never detected any at the jenolan sphere .so did it make its jump based on using its Star ? its these kind of inconsistency's that can ruin the sci fi immersion .
If Omega particles are what is used to make the jump, the Enterprise D never detected any at the jenolan sphere .so did it make its jump based on using its Star ? its these kind of inconsistency's that can ruin the sci fi immersion .
Omega Particles were not invented until after the Relics episode.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
The OP specifically asked if he was crazy for feeling that way. Never ask a question you do not want the answer to.
Star Trek was only rooted in science when any particular episode writer wanted it to be. The rest of the time it was all hand-waved under the umbrella of technobabble or magic.
I didn't pay much attention to this plot hole, but you are right. Moving a dyson sphere means moving an entire solar system. I doubt that even the Iconians can do that, they can't even figure out how to make their planet habitable again.
Still, finally some Undine action again. I mean, we finally found out why they want to kill everyone, and then nothing happens with them.
Sorry but this is Star Trek. Weirder things have happened than a sphere jumping. I.e. Spock's Brain anyone? That being said, this is a universe of untold possibilities, and like our real life universe, anything is possible.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Really? that's the opposition to my statement? Or is it the opposite of my statement. Not sure I understand you. Might I suggest a public speaking course?
Science fiction, is fiction based upon scientific principles. Ergo, while moving a Dyson Sphere could be explained by science fiction, the mere existence of a Dyson Sphere is straight fiction, and contradictory to the premise of science fiction.
Lol wut? Science fiction is not fiction? since when? :P
anyways.... the Sphere itself appears to be a machine engineered for this task. So what if we haven't seen it before?
Now, what would happen if a starship were to reroute a synchronized chronometric wave pattern through the EPS manifold, then at the same time, while isolating the plasma conduits, invert it, and redirect it, through the deflector array at the Dyson Sphere within a few nanoseconds of this happening?
Look at it this way, a sphere is basically a Death Star, how could a space station move on it's own? There's no difference between the tech, they're both, as mentioned, machined for the job. And even then we're looking at this from the eyes of the Federation, Romulans and Klingons, we don't know ANYTHING about this tech so we're trying to logically figure this out when in reality it could be more than just what we see.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,672Community Moderator
edited February 2014
Did they ever explain the details of the Death Star's engines, which were visibly non existant in Star Wars? Nope. Just a big, honkin' sphere the size of a small moon cruisin' around under its own power. And that was not a hallow structure.
I'd also like to point at Halo for a moment as well. If Alpha Halo was thick enough to support an M Class biosphere on its inner surface, the destruction of the UNSC Pillar of Autumn shouldn't have been as catastrophic as it was. The Autumn was not buried deep within Alpha Halo, it was resting on the surface when the Chief destabilized her fusion reactors. Now they did throw us a bone on that one with Cortana saying that the detonation would cut through several critical systems. But if you think about it, we're talking about the Autumn pretty much perched on top of Alpha Halo's Achilles Heel by pure chance when it could have landed anywhere on the ring.
Moving the Jenolan sphere is what's called a Plot Device. Sometimes... they are never really explained. And as several people have pointed out, the Tkon were said to have the ability to move Stars. A Dyson Sphere, which is a hollow structure, would be child's play for a species with that level of tech.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Not sure exactly. Probably around the time we figured out the moon wasn't made of green cheese. Or maybe a little bit later when we figured out those weren't actually canals on Mars, but an optical illusion. Really don't have the time to explain it to you, but here's a link. Note the "definition" part.
I didn't pay much attention to this plot hole, but you are right. Moving a dyson sphere means moving an entire solar system. I doubt that even the Iconians can do that, they can't even figure out how to make their planet habitable again.
Still, finally some Undine action again. I mean, we finally found out why they want to kill everyone, and then nothing happens with them.
I see, so the problem here is that you are ignorant of Star Trek.
Not sure exactly. Probably around the time we figured out the moon wasn't made of green cheese. Or maybe a little bit later when we figured out those weren't actually canals on Mars, but an optical illusion. Really don't have the time to explain it to you, but here's a link. Note the "definition" part.
"Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possible worlds or futures.[2] It is similar to, but differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated physical laws (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation)."
Your supporting source just filed for divorce. It wants half your ships and and a monthly Zen stipend.
what the fork??? i just played it, because i didn't have time last week, and i can't believe what i heard. a dyson sphere can't be moved, there's just no way. i don't care how much energy you've got, it just ain't happening. okay maybe Q, but that's the only way.
star trek is sci-fi, not fantasy. you can't just make something like that happen just because it would be cool. this is why sci-fi tv shows have science advisors. cryptic, you are in desperate need of a good trek advisor. please... you need someone to stop you from doing ridiculous things like this.
am i not crazy being irked about this, or is everyone else swallowing it?
1) Remember; It's Science-Fiction
2) Star Trek in ALL it's many forms has NEVER been hard Science-Fiction. There's PLENTY of scientific 'hand-waving' (read - stuff that is honestly impossible, or doesn't/can't really work as describe in Star Trek canon; even on a theoretical basis.)
Thus, if the 'mobile Dyson Sphere' bothers you -- I suggest you stop watching Star Trek now. :eek::D;)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Now, in the strictest sense, with real world physics and with enough energy, you could basically move just about anything, so the OP is kinda off there.
Secondly, yes, Star Trek is based in science. Problem is it's meant to be entertainment, and let's face it, that's what pays the bills. So there needs to be leeway between the two for the sake of keeping people watching.
Fan consensus is one of if not the best episode of TOS is "City on the Edge of Forever". What does that give us in the Sci-Fi trope list?
Time travel?
Check.
Alternate realities?
Check.
Spatial distortions?
Check.
Talking ring shaped rock things that can replay the past and then send you there?
Check.
Floyd's Barbershop?
Check.
So the OP has no problem with a talking Rai stone that can send you any where and any when, but moving a nice large, and very solid I should add, object between two points in space is ludicrous?
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Comments
If you can swallow that, not to mention the idea of fighting dinosaurs with head-mounted laser beams inside said enclosure, for the purposes of a game, then being able to move said enclosure from one part of the galaxy to another really isn't that much more of a reach, is it?
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
TL;DR Because awesome.
That's pretty much the standard internet aggression there. Get challenged and then start attacking the person's reading comprehension.
Did you call the OP crazy? Yes? Then you're really one of the lazy people I was referring to.
Instead of pointing out that Trek is rooted in science and that there can indeed be a very plausible, fun, Trek-style explanation for how this is achieved, you spout off at the person calling them crazy and saying that this is easy to suspend disbelief because it's the MAGIC of Fiction.
Might as well just say that it happened because the Sorting Hat put Tuvok in Hufflepuff. (In case you missed it due to bad reading comprehension, I was making a pop culture reference to a really popular fictional series there).
EDIT: I will eventually post something mathematical. It may take awhile. I did far better at verbal than math on my SATs. So don't hold your breath or anything. How awesome will it be to get attacked for any math I do post though? I personally can't wait.
Then let's prove the accuracy of said attack, shall we?
You said:
Now it's "put up or shut up" time. Link me anything from the OP asking for the technobabble explanation. Go ahead, I'll wait.
My Hufflepuff explanation will have to suffice for now.
And really that should more than cover what you asked for since ... IT'S FICTIONAL! Amirite?
Tuvok: Admiral, the Voth are moving the Sphere.
Cooper: SPECTO PATRONUS!
Would Q be Gandalf, Dumbledore or Merlin?
I do hate to mix up my make believe :P
...because you can't quote the OP asking for the technobabble explanation, since the OP never asked for any such thing.
Star Trek was only rooted in science when any particular episode writer wanted it to be. The rest of the time it was all hand-waved under the umbrella of technobabble or magic.
in ST generations the destruction of stars showed a change in gravity and caused starships to recalculate coarse based on these events . it even changed the coarse of the ribbon .
cause and effect . there is none of this that i can see with the event mentioned in the FE .
this to me leaves a hole in the story telling . of why didnt anyone realize the localized change in the jenolan sphere area? i mean someone would have noticed .
If Omega particles are what is used to make the jump, the Enterprise D never detected any at the jenolan sphere .so did it make its jump based on using its Star ? its these kind of inconsistency's that can ruin the sci fi immersion .
My character Tsin'xing
Still, finally some Undine action again. I mean, we finally found out why they want to kill everyone, and then nothing happens with them.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Warp Drive
Transwarp
Replicators
Transporters
Planetary Cloaking Devices
Time Travel
Hell, the T'kon empire was stated to have the ability to move stars.
I think your problem is your perception of "Trek" is not actual "Trek"
anyways.... the Sphere itself appears to be a machine engineered for this task. So what if we haven't seen it before?
My character Tsin'xing
I could tell you but <REDACTED>
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I'd also like to point at Halo for a moment as well. If Alpha Halo was thick enough to support an M Class biosphere on its inner surface, the destruction of the UNSC Pillar of Autumn shouldn't have been as catastrophic as it was. The Autumn was not buried deep within Alpha Halo, it was resting on the surface when the Chief destabilized her fusion reactors. Now they did throw us a bone on that one with Cortana saying that the detonation would cut through several critical systems. But if you think about it, we're talking about the Autumn pretty much perched on top of Alpha Halo's Achilles Heel by pure chance when it could have landed anywhere on the ring.
Moving the Jenolan sphere is what's called a Plot Device. Sometimes... they are never really explained. And as several people have pointed out, the Tkon were said to have the ability to move Stars. A Dyson Sphere, which is a hollow structure, would be child's play for a species with that level of tech.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Wikipedia !!!!
Really ????
Where pages can be edited to support an argument or point of view, then put back later.
Not really a credible source of information, a starting point maybe for better research, but not an entire proof of a point.
Try Here a credible source :P
Of course I did. The OP asked if we thought they were crazy:
There's the question the OP asked and got a direct answer to. Sorry for being lazy and answering a question that was actually asked.
Still waiting for you to link the OP's question that you were attempting to answer.
Bounce a graviton beam of the main deflector dish
I see, so the problem here is that you are ignorant of Star Trek.
Hey, look... I can read:
"Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possible worlds or futures.[2] It is similar to, but differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated physical laws (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation)."
Your supporting source just filed for divorce. It wants half your ships and and a monthly Zen stipend.
1) Remember; It's Science-Fiction
2) Star Trek in ALL it's many forms has NEVER been hard Science-Fiction. There's PLENTY of scientific 'hand-waving' (read - stuff that is honestly impossible, or doesn't/can't really work as describe in Star Trek canon; even on a theoretical basis.)
Thus, if the 'mobile Dyson Sphere' bothers you -- I suggest you stop watching Star Trek now. :eek::D;)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Rule of Acquisition #208
Now, in the strictest sense, with real world physics and with enough energy, you could basically move just about anything, so the OP is kinda off there.
Secondly, yes, Star Trek is based in science. Problem is it's meant to be entertainment, and let's face it, that's what pays the bills. So there needs to be leeway between the two for the sake of keeping people watching.
Fan consensus is one of if not the best episode of TOS is "City on the Edge of Forever". What does that give us in the Sci-Fi trope list?
Time travel?
Check.
Alternate realities?
Check.
Spatial distortions?
Check.
Talking ring shaped rock things that can replay the past and then send you there?
Check.
Floyd's Barbershop?
Check.
So the OP has no problem with a talking Rai stone that can send you any where and any when, but moving a nice large, and very solid I should add, object between two points in space is ludicrous?
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)