Pretty much this, nice post.
Its embarasing to even look at some posts how much they complain bringing their alts as a reason. Nobody forced them to create 10, 20 or even 30 toons as I know some have. They have huge profits out of them allready, too much if you ask me. No one sais you HAVE to do the rep, its entirely optional. If it takes a long time then deal with it, it was your choice to create that many toons. In my opinion Cryptic should only concern about how much time takes on 3 or so toons. For 20-30 toons they shouldve make it even harder.
There is, however, some pretty good reasons for Cryptic see about making it less punishing to level up alts because for a large portion of player base building up an alt will keep them in the game longer than simply just building up a single character. If the game has ways of transferring resources, even if they're somewhat limited, to ease and/or speed that leveling experience then it's more likely that people will spend the money to purchase more character slots, to upgrade that character with quality of life improvements, and buy new ships for that character whether they're C-Store ships, fleet modules, or lock box ships.
On another note its good to see that the versions of mk X and mk XI were removed. I doubt any1 were using them anyway since the rep system was introduced.
And its a good thing if there is more solo player content, at least for KDF side as an option when they cant get a qeue.
Personally I'd like to see if at least some of those Mk X and XI rewards can be integrated into the game in some other way, maybe as rewards for end-game story content. Maybe adjust the stats on a few of them or strip some of the really powerful bonuses (Auto-Remodulator for STF ground sets) so they're not out of line with the similarly leveled versions of the sets already available (Jem'Hadar & Breen) from episode play and replay.
Pretty much this, nice post.
Its embarasing to even look at some posts how much they complain bringing their alts as a reason. Nobody forced them to create 10, 20 or even 30 toons as I know some have. They have huge profits out of them allready, too much if you ask me. No one sais you HAVE to do the rep, its entirely optional. If it takes a long time then deal with it, it was your choice to create that many toons. In my opinion Cryptic should only concern about how much time takes on 3 or so toons. For 20-30 toons they shouldve make it even harder.
On another note its good to see that the versions of mk X and mk XI were removed. I doubt any1 were using them anyway since the rep system was introduced.
And its a good thing if there is more solo player content, at least for KDF side as an option when they cant get a qeue.
How can you people be so naive. Cryptic wants people to make alts. 3 Careers, 3 Factions, Countless species to choose. Cstore unlocks for even MORE species. The ability to buy character slots that stops somewhere upwards in the 40s. An account bank that also has cstore unlocking for more room. Cryptic makes a lot of money off people with alt characters and as you can see they push to make people want to make more toons.
After enticing people into making alts its only logical to have something in place that makes the reputation system easier to get through per toon as more toons on the same account finish it.
STO is a game, and the purpose of the game is to play it. I know an original thought, so the fact that the commendations can't be stored up I can see as a reward for actually playing the game for what, 15 minutes? 15 minutes of a single elite will gain you the commendation. If you can't play for 15 minutes, only 5, well you can still make a tenth of the progress by doing the small.
BUT... here's the problem as. It's gated behind a 20 hour gate. I do not always play at the same time every day, my work schedule isn't a nine to five job. If one day I work until seven at night, and the next day I work noont until two in the morning, well I just missed out on an entire day of commendation because of a simple hour or two and a stupid arbitrary time gate. What is the reason against us stacking up commendations? If as someone else said, all the commendation activities are a 20 hour activity, who cares if I have 1 or 1000, I can only use one a day. If there is some super secret economical reason for it, then either turn the ability to gain one every 12 hours, or simply limit the size of stack of commendations we can have. If the stack size is exceeded we get extra marks.
So I guess my argument is, if the reason you want the commendations at 20 hours is to play the game at least 15 minutes every day, then great. But don't penalize those of us who do play your game, just not always at the same time each day behind arbitrary time gates with no practical reason behind it at all.
OK smart guy, what plans would those be? or rather how they be implemented ...
That's just it though, they haven't told us yet. I am not trying to be a jerk just that at this point you should be examining the rep system as it applies to you playing one charactor. When they release info about what they are doing for alts *then* you should take the entire system into account. If they did not say they were doing something specific for alts then I can understand voicing concerns.
At the same time though, you need to realize that they can't balance the whole system around someone having a ton of alts. If you have 12 alts, it *should* very likely feel very grindy for you. You are trying to gear, level, and equip 12 seperate charactors, so you are doing everything 12 times. It should be a lot of work overall otherwise the system is too easy for people who do not have a ton of alts. The exception should be if they make an alt specific system like they mentioned they would for this. As an example: If they designed it so that you could finish the rep with 12 charactors very quickly with minimal work then the time and effort it takes to finish one charactor is not enough. If it was slow for the first charactor and the max level charactor buys items that instanly finishes the rep on your second, third, etc etc charactors to max that's a whole other story and it should be easier for those other charactors.
If you have only a couple alts, I can understand sharing concerns about how hard it would be to compelte multiple times, but if you have a small army you just need to resign yourself to the fact that it should feel repeative (grindy) since the game is not balanced around you having 150 charactors spread over 3 accounts and you have to go through those proccesses multiple times. Even if it was log on, click start project, and log off while waiting on the 20hr cooldown, it will feel "grindy" with enough charactors.
I agree with what you said, being one of those people with 12 alts. The problem is this, the game should be balanced around everyone having 3 alts. One Fed, One Klingon, One Romulan. Which is all the alts I use the reputation system for.
And it's grindy, very grindy, and it's not just because of alts. There are three rep systems in place in Holo. Each one requires a hell of a lot of EC and marks to make work. That's just one character, and that's assuming you get the gear out of only one of the systems, and use the other two just for the traits. Want gear out of it, that's a hell of a lot of dilithium you need to make it work, and you don't get enough dilithium from the system for even one piece of gear. So now its a grind to get EC (even if its a Foundy mission, you still have to do it over and over) a grind for dilithium, and a grind for the marks, then you're time gated on top of that, making it a grind to even ensure you're online at the time the time gate ends to start the next missions.
The Dyson fixed some of it, but not all of it. I'll have to grind less, but I'll still have to grind, even on one character. Add the expected two alts to the system, and it gets even worse to unbearable. I mean really how many times can you do the same four missions over and over again, and you're still going to have to grind dilithium and EC, which takes you away from grinding marks.
I agree with what you said, being one of those people with 12 alts. The problem is this, the game should be balanced around everyone having 3 alts. One Fed, One Klingon, One Romulan. Which is all the alts I use the reputation system for.
And it's grindy, very grindy, and it's not just because of alts. There are three rep systems in place in Holo. Each one requires a hell of a lot of EC and marks to make work. That's just one character, and that's assuming you get the gear out of only one of the systems, and use the other two just for the traits. Want gear out of it, that's a hell of a lot of dilithium you need to make it work, and you don't get enough dilithium from the system for even one piece of gear. So now its a grind to get EC (even if its a Foundy mission, you still have to do it over and over) a grind for dilithium, and a grind for the marks, then you're time gated on top of that, making it a grind to even ensure you're online at the time the time gate ends to start the next missions.
The Dyson fixed some of it, but not all of it. I'll have to grind less, but I'll still have to grind, even on one character. Add the expected two alts to the system, and it gets even worse to unbearable. I mean really how many times can you do the same four missions over and over again, and you're still going to have to grind dilithium and EC, which takes you away from grinding marks.
I would say more than 3, there are 3 types of captains and 2.5 factions. but really 12 is a good number. 3kdf, 3romkdf, 3 fed 3 rom fed.
Bottom line rep should be account wide, with gear purchases character bound. The reason for this is there are only 3 missions per rep that have to be completed 30-40 times per toon for the entire rep system to get complete. It would be different if they made some diversity, but they are shafting us on content and forcing repetition without being game minded.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
From another thread, easy to make it account bound in spirit:
Now if they had a system where a prime gets the rep and then has a project it can run which produces a rep-xp token that is account bound then alts could run rep-xp missions (call it "theater of operations mentoring") for the amount of xp at each tier OR for the whole thing. This is in essence an account wide rep system without recoding much, just make a mission which rewards a token that is account bound a d couple missions whose only or significant input is such a token which rewards rep-xp and no dilithium.
Edit: if dilithium reward can't easily be segregated then make the dilithium cost of the project the same as the reward, then we turn in refined for unrefined, counts toward our cap again, but that is a happy sacrifice.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I think I understand why you want to make it so we only get one Joint Command Token per day. However, how about a compromise? Let us get 3 per day, that way those who can't log in daily and actually play can still keep up with daily progress.
Here's what I know, you'll get a commendation from doing:
1) Spire 5-Man (Normal and Elite)
2) Breach 5-Man (Normal and Elite)
3) Ground Battle Zone Missions - Not sure if this requires 1 mission or multiple, rewards are being finalized
4) Space Adventure Zone Missions - Not sure if this requires 1 mission or multiple, rewards are being finalized
In short, there will be lots of content for solo players! And this content should be awarding commendations and marks. I can't comment on exactly how this will be set up yet, but when I know I will share it.
Unless there are a lot of solo missions that are "click this console, then click this console, now you're done" I'd suggest that you can get a commendation from doing just one. Having to do multiples will make it feel like a grind eventually even if the first few times you do it, it's something new and exciting.
I very much doubt they will be quick click missions. I would think they will be similar to the current Romulan Tau Dewa Patrol Daily...
Any chance of adding in Mk11 gear as well as the 12? Even if unlocked at the same tier at the same time as the 12s are, there are plenty of good reasons to use 11 even if 12 is available.
My concern after reading the discussion is this: If we cannot stock pile the commendations why is it on the currencies page? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to just be an inventory item like the BNPs? We've already got enough currencies there without adding one that is always going to either be a 0 or a 1.
My concern after reading the discussion is this: If we cannot stock pile the commendations why is it on the currencies page? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to just be an inventory item like the BNPs? We've already got enough currencies there without adding one that is always going to either be a 0 or a 1.
Yikes, I dont want anything in my inventory if I dont have to worry about it. The commodities for doff missions and all the consumables for pvp and end game take up space. I would hate to waste a spot for a single comendation, even temporarily.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Yikes, I dont want anything in my inventory if I dont have to worry about it. The commodities for doff missions and all the consumables for pvp and end game take up space. I would hate to waste a spot for a single comendation, even temporarily.
A valid concern, but I would rather not have it take up UI space if you can never have more than one at a time. There's getting to be too much clutter already. Like someone said (Was it Bran or Gorn) that most people would probably start the rep project pretty quickly after obtaining it anyway. Or... take out the commendation completely and auto-start a big rep project on your mission completion of the day.
I hope Cryptic looks into commodity storage. Something like what Guild Wars has for crafting materials: a separate tab in the (account?) bank just for those. Would definitely help me clear up some inventory/bank space.
Edit: If it is going to be able to be stockpiled, then on the currency page is fine. If it is just going to take up space to tell me that I don't currently have one (Which will be 99.9% of the time) ... that just seems like a waste of screen real-estate that could be better used for telling me something I don't already know. There are probably a dozen ways to handle this... like showing the currency only on the reputation page, or Separating the marks/commendations out to yet another UI page in the inventory (not my favorite option).
I would like to better understand what specifically makes this reputation more "grindy" than other reputations? Is it because you cannot stockpile resources necessary for large XP projects? Is it something else, or is it a combination of things? The more specific and objective you can be, the better I can understand your objections and possibly resolve them.
I can't currently test for you, as I'm a Silver, (I want to help you! Let me!:P) but I think that the problem is the one Commendation per day thing. I understand wanting more log-ins, but one must remember that players who stockpile are not spending less time in-game, I think, but instead consolidating that time.
I think, when dealing with other people's free time (which is what any game does), the more flexible you are the happier they will be, because free time is supposed to be exactly that, free.
If I don't answer or address a concern, it isn't because I am not listening or ignorning you. I read every single post. Sometimes I don't have anything helpful to add, don't have a useful solution for your particular concern or can't talk about how we're addressing something yet. I'm always listening and considering your feedback, just know that.
Thank you for your honesty and dedication to this community. I, for one, really appreciate that you read all of this. I understand completely if you're to busy to reply!:)
Protonic Polaron weapons will use existing polaron visuals.
This is a little disappointing to me. Polaron weapons (and a lot of the other launch weapons) really are in need of a texture pass, much like the breen, nausicaan, and feklri ships went through. It'd be really nice if they could at least have some color uniqueness, like the icon does, but I can see how that might be difficult to do without spending art time on a whole new texture. But I would also like to see at least a slight hue difference in all 'special' weapon types, much like the romulan plasma and phased tetryon have.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
How can you people be so naive. Cryptic wants people to make alts. 3 Careers, 3 Factions, Countless species to choose. Cstore unlocks for even MORE species. The ability to buy character slots that stops somewhere upwards in the 40s. An account bank that also has cstore unlocking for more room. Cryptic makes a lot of money off people with alt characters and as you can see they push to make people want to make more toons.
After enticing people into making alts its only logical to have something in place that makes the reputation system easier to get through per toon as more toons on the same account finish it.
There is a massive massive difference between having some QOL changes for alts, and do it once get it free on all your alts mentality that the alt nerdragers keep having hyperbolic fits about on these forums.
There is a massive massive difference between having some QOL changes for alts, and do it once get it free on all your alts mentality that the alt nerdragers keep having hyperbolic fits about on these forums.
More alts, more zen sold, especially across faction alts. I really don't see it another way. In the best interests of revenue generation for the game all should want alt friendly policies such as account bound rep.
Infact the guy that has 12-15 alts already bought more character slots, but will likely get costumes for them and a more variety of ships.
I scaled down from my 6 (3 kdf and 3 fed) of each captain type to just 2 fed - tac and sci, do to rep issues and engineer impotence. Further my other character slots have just been regulated to Academy farms generating dilithium and EC instead of needing it to outfit them. I avoided the battlecruiser purchase, but why buy an optimal ship if i am not putting my engie in pvp or really need anything better than the fleet excelsior in pve, and his rep is not all that impressive to justify that extra umph in battle? Sure many bought it, the question is not how many bought the ship, but how many more would have.
Recognize the game needs an increasing revenue profile and determine who will provide that people with more or fewer alts. What is best for altoholics and new players is best for sto, they represent growth. The character based rep system that starts at level 50 is not best for these to groups.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
A valid concern, but I would rather not have it take up UI space if you can never have more than one at a time. There's getting to be too much clutter already. Like someone said (Was it Bran or Gorn) that most people would probably start the rep project pretty quickly after obtaining it anyway. Or... take out the commendation completely and auto-start a big rep project on your mission completion of the day.
I hope Cryptic looks into commodity storage. Something like what Guild Wars has for crafting materials: a separate tab in the (account?) bank just for those. Would definitely help me clear up some inventory/bank space.
Edit: If it is going to be able to be stockpiled, then on the currency page is fine. If it is just going to take up space to tell me that I don't currently have one (Which will be 99.9% of the time) ... that just seems like a waste of screen real-estate that could be better used for telling me something I don't already know. There are probably a dozen ways to handle this... like showing the currency only on the reputation page, or Separating the marks/commendations out to yet another UI page in the inventory (not my favorite option).
The problem with crowded screen space is we are getting back into multiple currencies again, that we had back in the old marks system. They got rid of it cause it was getting to be a hassle to deal with, now we have a new plethora of currencies (thankfully they are not bound to a level of gameplay), but if this happens every season then what are we going to do in 2 years, after 4-5 season releases and probably another expansion?
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Start the game now, you have 3 reputation systems to work on ... at once, its not a "issue" to people here that because they done it, ignore new players dont start with those maxed ... each rep system takes 2 months, attempting to tackle then at once will create player fatigue very fast because its just too much (I grinded my MK XI STF sets the old EDC way and by the end I could not even look at a queue anymore since I did it on normal) and what happens is they will leave.
I am looking at this as a new player perspective, its not different that when a new Fleet looks at all those tiers its overwhelming and if you tackle then one at a time we are talking 6 MONTHS here, they are also not shy of bleeding EC out of the players that its not a issue for older players but its a issue to new ones as each reputation equals about 1-2 million EC being used, thats 4-5 million EC as it currently stands, its 6-7 million with the new one.
If I wanted to solve my issue ... its easy, account marks and be done with it ... problem solved, also Account Level also solved ... but its not a solution, unless you think working 24/7 on a ever growing reputation system is a solution to the issue, its monster that keeps growing.
Let me also put this in very simple terms, when I seen STO back after F2P transition I would never play it if it was as it currently is because its a rat race, a 24/7 job and if you were here before, not a problem maybe ... new players? new players are FAR worst off that someone creating a Alt because I have EC, DOFFs and knowledge to make it easier that a new player first character.
And its Clear to me Cryptic doesnt get that ... and since they arent interested in retention of players ... you can all do the math.
The thing is you don't have to tackle them all at once, and certainly not on alts at the same time. Nothing requires you to grind them all out as fast as possible, you can even do content without the gear they offer, or the passives.
that said, this new system, if it gets moved to the other reps, which they mentioned the possibility of more then once if it works well, would mean being able to manage 4 reps on one char in about a hours time every day. that would be a vast improvement over the current, if your crazy enough to tackle 3 reps at once, and yes I tried it, it was rough.
But we come back to, rep is a want, not a need, no content in game requires that you have a tier 5 rep to do, its only required to get gear and abilities specific to the rep. Are those passives and actives nice, yes, is the gear nice, yes. But you have to separate need from want.
Now if a new player were mislead into thinking they needed all their reps at tier 5 as fast as possible, that they had to have all the gear and abilities, then it could be daunting, but the only place were that becomes a curve is pvp, and honestly the skill, doffs, and proper skill building are just as much of a curve there.
I very much doubt they will be quick click missions. I would think they will be similar to the current Romulan Tau Dewa Patrol Daily...
I doubt we'll get a lot of quick click missions, but I'd rather they were like the New Romulus daily missions than Tau Dewa Patrol. Tau Dewa Patrol is the very definition of a mindless, soul-crushing single player grind. The New Romulus mission can be a little grindy but there's a variety there even if they don't reward as many marks. Which isn't a huge issue when talking about the daily token.
Of course new Romulus has Epoh Tagging which I would argue shouldn't qualify for the daily token, but the others? Yeah, I think they should. Which really should've been how I phrased it initially.
as far as i can tel it really is less grind and more fun had a couple STFs and made the first rep projects. the commendation thing with nothing else needed to start it IS a great idea.
would also be good for the other reps.
and the thing that it now directly needs EC is also in my favor . as it makes it easier just to donate ec than to get all the commodities together.
as far as i can tell i am pleased and impressed by the rep system
Just wanted to chime in real quick after thinking it all over and seeing all the new details.
GREAT
- Much more uniform rewards across the content thanks to daily
- New Consoles
- Soloable reputation
GOOD
- 2,500 exp for the big mission
- Daily dil turn in at max level
- Less 'junk' in my inventory for projects
- Loot box reward excitement
- Stores unlocked without cost
BAD
- Cannot stockpile the big marks
-- Can be fixed by allowing them to be a random extra drop at end like the BNPs in STFs
FEAR
- Omega STFs might get rewards nerfed at some point...
The problem with crowded screen space is we are getting back into multiple currencies again, that we had back in the old marks system. They got rid of it cause it was getting to be a hassle to deal with, now we have a new plethora of currencies (thankfully they are not bound to a level of gameplay), but if this happens every season then what are we going to do in 2 years, after 4-5 season releases and probably another expansion?
That is what I was hinting at without actually saying it. I think we are close to having as many currencies now that we had before the currency change with F2P. I guess I'm still not sold on the idea of Marks. I'm more used to the classic model for reputation where doing the content directly contributes, rather than getting an intermediate token to do a time gated-project, and to me the word reputation implies that actions should speak louder than currencies. We aren't getting reputation, we're buying stock.
I've said it in other threads, but if the Omega Taskforce is so anti-borg, then any mission that involves borg should help me progress in the Omega reputation (directly). If the Romulans are trying to build a new society, then any mission that helps the Romulans should help me progress in the Romulan Republic reputation. If the Nukara Strikeforce is so against Tholian invasion, then anytime I face Tholians... well, I think you get the picture.
Sounds like we will be getting some kind of "boosts" to our alts when we reach Tier 4 Rep.
That's more than enough for me. I am a die-hard alt-itis player and I like it when they're actually different. Keeps things interesting.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I would like to better understand what specifically makes this reputation more "grindy" than other reputations? Is it because you cannot stockpile resources necessary for large XP projects? Is it something else, or is it a combination of things? The more specific and objective you can be, the better I can understand your objections and possibly resolve them.
Being "forced" to log-in and play daily is where the "grindy" bit comes in for me. There are many days where I can't play for long on any given character, and there are times where I simply don't want to. I only can/want to log in for a few minutes for maintenance (kick-off Projects, grab some DOff assignments, that sort of thing), and log off.
It's bad enough I feel I have to log in daily (even for 5mins) or "fall behind" on my Rep. But at least I could stockpile resources ahead of time (during sessions I choose as "play time").
I made a change yesterday to how much experience the daily and hourly XP projects work. The daily now gives 2500 and the hourly now gives 150. So, it's possible to earn 2800 in 1 hour of play assuming you have 10 Dyson Marks upon logging in.
This is great news. I don't mind playing an hours-worth of game to get a day's worth of resources. S'long as I can play 5-7hrs on a day off, to pay for future work days.
ETA: Gorngonzolla, do you know why the need for the double-time-gate? I mean we're already gated on how many projects we can run per day. Why is there now going to also be a time-gate on acquiring the resource (Commendation) for said project? How does adding more roadblocks improve gameplay? It doesn't add challenge or any sort of fun. Where's the advantage/need/reason?
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Sounds like we will be getting some kind of "boosts" to our alts when we reach Tier 4 Rep.
That's more than enough for me. I am a die-hard alt-itis player and I like it when they're actually different. Keeps things interesting.
That is interesting but the details will determine if it is meaningful. If it is a vast majority of the rep then good, but waiting till T4 to start alts is really not helping if the bonus is less than half. Grind is part of the equation and actual number of weeks to complete it is the other, most of us assumed the devs understood that trading less grind for a significant increase in completion duration isn't a significantly better trade.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
ETA: Gorngonzolla, do you know why the need for the double-time-gate? I mean we're already gated on how many projects we can run per day. Why is there now going to also be a time-gate on acquiring the resource (Commendation) for said project? How does adding more roadblocks improve gameplay? It doesn't add challenge or any sort of fun. Where's the advantage/need/reason?
Yeah, that's the million dollar question. With the time gate on commendations gone, pretty much all of my criticisms fly out the airlock.
And the intentions behind it are less than clear...
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Yeah, that's the million dollar question. With the time gate on commendations gone, pretty much all of my criticisms fly out the airlock.
And the intentions behind it are less than clear...
It could be a fear that if they don't gate the commendations too basically everyone will stockpile, and if your not on when the majority of people stock piling are on, you'll have trouble doing any of the group content, since everyone stockpiled.
It wouldn't impact the ability to get a commendation, since you can go to the dyson and do solo content, but that could impact several of the group play aspects. then again it could not.
I could be way off base here, but thinking about it, that's the first thing that comes to mind.
Comments
There is, however, some pretty good reasons for Cryptic see about making it less punishing to level up alts because for a large portion of player base building up an alt will keep them in the game longer than simply just building up a single character. If the game has ways of transferring resources, even if they're somewhat limited, to ease and/or speed that leveling experience then it's more likely that people will spend the money to purchase more character slots, to upgrade that character with quality of life improvements, and buy new ships for that character whether they're C-Store ships, fleet modules, or lock box ships.
Personally I'd like to see if at least some of those Mk X and XI rewards can be integrated into the game in some other way, maybe as rewards for end-game story content. Maybe adjust the stats on a few of them or strip some of the really powerful bonuses (Auto-Remodulator for STF ground sets) so they're not out of line with the similarly leveled versions of the sets already available (Jem'Hadar & Breen) from episode play and replay.
How can you people be so naive. Cryptic wants people to make alts. 3 Careers, 3 Factions, Countless species to choose. Cstore unlocks for even MORE species. The ability to buy character slots that stops somewhere upwards in the 40s. An account bank that also has cstore unlocking for more room. Cryptic makes a lot of money off people with alt characters and as you can see they push to make people want to make more toons.
After enticing people into making alts its only logical to have something in place that makes the reputation system easier to get through per toon as more toons on the same account finish it.
STO is a game, and the purpose of the game is to play it. I know an original thought, so the fact that the commendations can't be stored up I can see as a reward for actually playing the game for what, 15 minutes? 15 minutes of a single elite will gain you the commendation. If you can't play for 15 minutes, only 5, well you can still make a tenth of the progress by doing the small.
BUT... here's the problem as. It's gated behind a 20 hour gate. I do not always play at the same time every day, my work schedule isn't a nine to five job. If one day I work until seven at night, and the next day I work noont until two in the morning, well I just missed out on an entire day of commendation because of a simple hour or two and a stupid arbitrary time gate. What is the reason against us stacking up commendations? If as someone else said, all the commendation activities are a 20 hour activity, who cares if I have 1 or 1000, I can only use one a day. If there is some super secret economical reason for it, then either turn the ability to gain one every 12 hours, or simply limit the size of stack of commendations we can have. If the stack size is exceeded we get extra marks.
So I guess my argument is, if the reason you want the commendations at 20 hours is to play the game at least 15 minutes every day, then great. But don't penalize those of us who do play your game, just not always at the same time each day behind arbitrary time gates with no practical reason behind it at all.
That's just it though, they haven't told us yet. I am not trying to be a jerk just that at this point you should be examining the rep system as it applies to you playing one charactor. When they release info about what they are doing for alts *then* you should take the entire system into account. If they did not say they were doing something specific for alts then I can understand voicing concerns.
At the same time though, you need to realize that they can't balance the whole system around someone having a ton of alts. If you have 12 alts, it *should* very likely feel very grindy for you. You are trying to gear, level, and equip 12 seperate charactors, so you are doing everything 12 times. It should be a lot of work overall otherwise the system is too easy for people who do not have a ton of alts. The exception should be if they make an alt specific system like they mentioned they would for this. As an example: If they designed it so that you could finish the rep with 12 charactors very quickly with minimal work then the time and effort it takes to finish one charactor is not enough. If it was slow for the first charactor and the max level charactor buys items that instanly finishes the rep on your second, third, etc etc charactors to max that's a whole other story and it should be easier for those other charactors.
If you have only a couple alts, I can understand sharing concerns about how hard it would be to compelte multiple times, but if you have a small army you just need to resign yourself to the fact that it should feel repeative (grindy) since the game is not balanced around you having 150 charactors spread over 3 accounts and you have to go through those proccesses multiple times. Even if it was log on, click start project, and log off while waiting on the 20hr cooldown, it will feel "grindy" with enough charactors.
I agree with what you said, being one of those people with 12 alts. The problem is this, the game should be balanced around everyone having 3 alts. One Fed, One Klingon, One Romulan. Which is all the alts I use the reputation system for.
And it's grindy, very grindy, and it's not just because of alts. There are three rep systems in place in Holo. Each one requires a hell of a lot of EC and marks to make work. That's just one character, and that's assuming you get the gear out of only one of the systems, and use the other two just for the traits. Want gear out of it, that's a hell of a lot of dilithium you need to make it work, and you don't get enough dilithium from the system for even one piece of gear. So now its a grind to get EC (even if its a Foundy mission, you still have to do it over and over) a grind for dilithium, and a grind for the marks, then you're time gated on top of that, making it a grind to even ensure you're online at the time the time gate ends to start the next missions.
The Dyson fixed some of it, but not all of it. I'll have to grind less, but I'll still have to grind, even on one character. Add the expected two alts to the system, and it gets even worse to unbearable. I mean really how many times can you do the same four missions over and over again, and you're still going to have to grind dilithium and EC, which takes you away from grinding marks.
I would say more than 3, there are 3 types of captains and 2.5 factions. but really 12 is a good number. 3kdf, 3romkdf, 3 fed 3 rom fed.
Bottom line rep should be account wide, with gear purchases character bound. The reason for this is there are only 3 missions per rep that have to be completed 30-40 times per toon for the entire rep system to get complete. It would be different if they made some diversity, but they are shafting us on content and forcing repetition without being game minded.
Now if they had a system where a prime gets the rep and then has a project it can run which produces a rep-xp token that is account bound then alts could run rep-xp missions (call it "theater of operations mentoring") for the amount of xp at each tier OR for the whole thing. This is in essence an account wide rep system without recoding much, just make a mission which rewards a token that is account bound a d couple missions whose only or significant input is such a token which rewards rep-xp and no dilithium.
Edit: if dilithium reward can't easily be segregated then make the dilithium cost of the project the same as the reward, then we turn in refined for unrefined, counts toward our cap again, but that is a happy sacrifice.
Thanks for your reply. Sounds good
I very much doubt they will be quick click missions. I would think they will be similar to the current Romulan Tau Dewa Patrol Daily...
Yikes, I dont want anything in my inventory if I dont have to worry about it. The commodities for doff missions and all the consumables for pvp and end game take up space. I would hate to waste a spot for a single comendation, even temporarily.
A valid concern, but I would rather not have it take up UI space if you can never have more than one at a time. There's getting to be too much clutter already. Like someone said (Was it Bran or Gorn) that most people would probably start the rep project pretty quickly after obtaining it anyway. Or... take out the commendation completely and auto-start a big rep project on your mission completion of the day.
I hope Cryptic looks into commodity storage. Something like what Guild Wars has for crafting materials: a separate tab in the (account?) bank just for those. Would definitely help me clear up some inventory/bank space.
Edit: If it is going to be able to be stockpiled, then on the currency page is fine. If it is just going to take up space to tell me that I don't currently have one (Which will be 99.9% of the time) ... that just seems like a waste of screen real-estate that could be better used for telling me something I don't already know. There are probably a dozen ways to handle this... like showing the currency only on the reputation page, or Separating the marks/commendations out to yet another UI page in the inventory (not my favorite option).
I can't currently test for you, as I'm a Silver, (I want to help you! Let me!:P) but I think that the problem is the one Commendation per day thing. I understand wanting more log-ins, but one must remember that players who stockpile are not spending less time in-game, I think, but instead consolidating that time.
I think, when dealing with other people's free time (which is what any game does), the more flexible you are the happier they will be, because free time is supposed to be exactly that, free.
Thank you for your honesty and dedication to this community. I, for one, really appreciate that you read all of this. I understand completely if you're to busy to reply!:)
This is a little disappointing to me. Polaron weapons (and a lot of the other launch weapons) really are in need of a texture pass, much like the breen, nausicaan, and feklri ships went through. It'd be really nice if they could at least have some color uniqueness, like the icon does, but I can see how that might be difficult to do without spending art time on a whole new texture. But I would also like to see at least a slight hue difference in all 'special' weapon types, much like the romulan plasma and phased tetryon have.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
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There is a massive massive difference between having some QOL changes for alts, and do it once get it free on all your alts mentality that the alt nerdragers keep having hyperbolic fits about on these forums.
Thank you
More alts, more zen sold, especially across faction alts. I really don't see it another way. In the best interests of revenue generation for the game all should want alt friendly policies such as account bound rep.
Infact the guy that has 12-15 alts already bought more character slots, but will likely get costumes for them and a more variety of ships.
I scaled down from my 6 (3 kdf and 3 fed) of each captain type to just 2 fed - tac and sci, do to rep issues and engineer impotence. Further my other character slots have just been regulated to Academy farms generating dilithium and EC instead of needing it to outfit them. I avoided the battlecruiser purchase, but why buy an optimal ship if i am not putting my engie in pvp or really need anything better than the fleet excelsior in pve, and his rep is not all that impressive to justify that extra umph in battle? Sure many bought it, the question is not how many bought the ship, but how many more would have.
Recognize the game needs an increasing revenue profile and determine who will provide that people with more or fewer alts. What is best for altoholics and new players is best for sto, they represent growth. The character based rep system that starts at level 50 is not best for these to groups.
The problem with crowded screen space is we are getting back into multiple currencies again, that we had back in the old marks system. They got rid of it cause it was getting to be a hassle to deal with, now we have a new plethora of currencies (thankfully they are not bound to a level of gameplay), but if this happens every season then what are we going to do in 2 years, after 4-5 season releases and probably another expansion?
The thing is you don't have to tackle them all at once, and certainly not on alts at the same time. Nothing requires you to grind them all out as fast as possible, you can even do content without the gear they offer, or the passives.
that said, this new system, if it gets moved to the other reps, which they mentioned the possibility of more then once if it works well, would mean being able to manage 4 reps on one char in about a hours time every day. that would be a vast improvement over the current, if your crazy enough to tackle 3 reps at once, and yes I tried it, it was rough.
But we come back to, rep is a want, not a need, no content in game requires that you have a tier 5 rep to do, its only required to get gear and abilities specific to the rep. Are those passives and actives nice, yes, is the gear nice, yes. But you have to separate need from want.
Now if a new player were mislead into thinking they needed all their reps at tier 5 as fast as possible, that they had to have all the gear and abilities, then it could be daunting, but the only place were that becomes a curve is pvp, and honestly the skill, doffs, and proper skill building are just as much of a curve there.
I doubt we'll get a lot of quick click missions, but I'd rather they were like the New Romulus daily missions than Tau Dewa Patrol. Tau Dewa Patrol is the very definition of a mindless, soul-crushing single player grind. The New Romulus mission can be a little grindy but there's a variety there even if they don't reward as many marks. Which isn't a huge issue when talking about the daily token.
Of course new Romulus has Epoh Tagging which I would argue shouldn't qualify for the daily token, but the others? Yeah, I think they should. Which really should've been how I phrased it initially.
would also be good for the other reps.
and the thing that it now directly needs EC is also in my favor . as it makes it easier just to donate ec than to get all the commodities together.
as far as i can tell i am pleased and impressed by the rep system
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GREAT
- Much more uniform rewards across the content thanks to daily
- New Consoles
- Soloable reputation
GOOD
- 2,500 exp for the big mission
- Daily dil turn in at max level
- Less 'junk' in my inventory for projects
- Loot box reward excitement
- Stores unlocked without cost
BAD
- Cannot stockpile the big marks
-- Can be fixed by allowing them to be a random extra drop at end like the BNPs in STFs
FEAR
- Omega STFs might get rewards nerfed at some point...
Well done.
That is what I was hinting at without actually saying it. I think we are close to having as many currencies now that we had before the currency change with F2P. I guess I'm still not sold on the idea of Marks. I'm more used to the classic model for reputation where doing the content directly contributes, rather than getting an intermediate token to do a time gated-project, and to me the word reputation implies that actions should speak louder than currencies. We aren't getting reputation, we're buying stock.
I've said it in other threads, but if the Omega Taskforce is so anti-borg, then any mission that involves borg should help me progress in the Omega reputation (directly). If the Romulans are trying to build a new society, then any mission that helps the Romulans should help me progress in the Romulan Republic reputation. If the Nukara Strikeforce is so against Tholian invasion, then anytime I face Tholians... well, I think you get the picture.
That's more than enough for me. I am a die-hard alt-itis player and I like it when they're actually different. Keeps things interesting.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Where did you see that, Bluegeek?
It's bad enough I feel I have to log in daily (even for 5mins) or "fall behind" on my Rep. But at least I could stockpile resources ahead of time (during sessions I choose as "play time").
With S8's new Rep, I won't be able to do that.
This is great news. I don't mind playing an hours-worth of game to get a day's worth of resources. S'long as I can play 5-7hrs on a day off, to pay for future work days.
ETA: Gorngonzolla, do you know why the need for the double-time-gate? I mean we're already gated on how many projects we can run per day. Why is there now going to also be a time-gate on acquiring the resource (Commendation) for said project? How does adding more roadblocks improve gameplay? It doesn't add challenge or any sort of fun. Where's the advantage/need/reason?
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
That is interesting but the details will determine if it is meaningful. If it is a vast majority of the rep then good, but waiting till T4 to start alts is really not helping if the bonus is less than half. Grind is part of the equation and actual number of weeks to complete it is the other, most of us assumed the devs understood that trading less grind for a significant increase in completion duration isn't a significantly better trade.
Yeah, that's the million dollar question. With the time gate on commendations gone, pretty much all of my criticisms fly out the airlock.
And the intentions behind it are less than clear...
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
It could be a fear that if they don't gate the commendations too basically everyone will stockpile, and if your not on when the majority of people stock piling are on, you'll have trouble doing any of the group content, since everyone stockpiled.
It wouldn't impact the ability to get a commendation, since you can go to the dyson and do solo content, but that could impact several of the group play aspects. then again it could not.
I could be way off base here, but thinking about it, that's the first thing that comes to mind.