I would like to better understand what specifically makes this reputation more "grindy" than other reputations? Is it because you cannot stockpile resources necessary for large XP projects? Is it something else, or is it a combination of things? The more specific and objective you can be, the better I can understand your objections and possibly resolve them.
If I don't answer or address a concern, it isn't because I am not listening or ignorning you. I read every single post. Sometimes I don't have anything helpful to add, don't have a useful solution for your particular concern or can't talk about how we're addressing something yet. I'm always listening and considering your feedback, just know that.
The question that I ask is: Why the limit of the commendation of 1 per day? it is specific and to the point and is a major source of concern. Many of us, probably most, are asking for a stockpile of the commendation to better suit our weekday needs, but if you have insight in how this is not feasible or less desirable etc could you share that with us? I am not trying to exploit, but a 4-5 month rep grind for even 1 toon is what awaits me. I was able to keep the rep systems moving daily in the old system and complete them in closer to 90 days.
There have been lots of posts specifically the inability to stockpile commendations. This is really could be a show stopper for the new rep for me. I am looking at a 20-25 week length trek to completion with weekend play at 2.5k per project and that will likely well overshoot the next rep of S9.
Adding to the the daily is nice, but with alts I will likely only get the 2.5k initially for each of them. There is chatter of an alt friendly addition, and the details are under wraps till finalization, but I am not confident it will cut the grind in more than half for us. Our fleet and some others perhaps run routine weeknight stuff like, pvp tuesdays, no win wednesdays, tholian thursdays (name only, just ground stuff), STFridays. This is my routine active gameplay. Weekends are for Stockpile Saturdays and Sundays < just made that one up but it is a keeper in my book.
Letting us know what you are thinking and getting feedback on things initially could help. I mean the 200xp project/hour was immediately recognized as an issue by the player base, could have saved you some effort.
I believe you read these posts in tribble space. I must implore that stockpiling daily tokens is a major concern. From the amount of vocal concern it would be justified to get a direct answer as to at least why the limit is in place and help us understand why the stockpile is not in the best interests of game play.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Commendations are only used for your large XP projects.
This being the case, and those project being time gated already, I'm not sure why there is a once per day limit.
It seems like this system is just setup for frustration, especially since it will be on the invisible 20 hour clock like the CC shards are. It makes it very inflexible for people to work around schedule wise, and it mandates logging in for at least 20-30 mins everyday, making it a real pain for the weekend warriors. Despite all the other great changes, it might be making this more a chore then something fun that help your progress.
Absolutely! We definitely want to get these items into your hands soon.
Cool, the sooner the better. Need more missions to do that award the single Commendation. Preferable solo missions as their isn't regular numbers on Tribble for team events...
Also, will we be able to earn the single commendation in solo content, or will we have to do a queued event?
The consoles found in the Dyson Joint Command Reputation work like this:
SCIENCE
-Half of an existing standard (non-Embassy) console bonus
-Proton damage proc on science powers (damage is doubled against Voth starships)
-Shield heal proc
ENGINEERING
-Half of an existing standard (non-Dilithium Mine) console bonus
-Minor Damage Resistance rating to Proton and Antiproton
-+Defense
TACTICAL
-Half of an existing standard (non-Spire) console bonus
-Increased Proton damage (applies to proton procs and to the Experimental Proton Weapon's damage)
-+Accuracy
There's also a bug where the Very Rare Mk XII science consoles are giving slightly less of a bonus than intended. This is fixed internally and should hopefully be in the next build.
Sounds good, though we could do with other ways of getting Fleet level gear in the Reputations. This is a start.
I would like to better understand what specifically makes this reputation more "grindy" than other reputations? Is it because you cannot stockpile resources necessary for large XP projects? Is it something else, or is it a combination of things? The more specific and objective you can be, the better I can understand your objections and possibly resolve them.
It is more grindy because instead of getting enough Marks to run both the 2000 and 800 xp projects in one event like in the old system, you would now get one commendation for the same event, and then have to stay on for 4 hours to match what you had before!
However, it looks like you have made a change that would partially solve that issue below..
I made a change yesterday to how much experience the daily and hourly XP projects work. The daily now gives 2500 and the hourly now gives 150. So, it's possible to earn 2800 in 1 hour of play assuming you have 10 Dyson Marks upon logging in.
This is better, but what missions will award these commendations. Will it include solo content?
Sometimes I don't want to do teamed events to get my Marks....
If I don't answer or address a concern, it isn't because I am not listening or ignorning you. I read every single post. Sometimes I don't have anything helpful to add, don't have a useful solution for your particular concern or can't talk about how we're addressing something yet. I'm always listening and considering your feedback, just know that.
This is nice to know. Dev input has been lacking of late, and if we could get back to the good old days of regular dev interaction, it can only improve the game further
You're suggesting a sort of gear management feature? Like switching between a gear set with the click of a button? If so, I'd love to see a feature like this too. It would be a great quality of life improvement for both ground and space combat. That said, this isn't something that is trivial to implement, so unfortunately we can't expect such a feature anytime in the immediate future.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
This could be cool. Some other mmo's I play have dual specs, or weapon loadouts that can be switched by a single button.
I would like the idea of eventually moving from the old trinity of Tactical, Science and Engineer. Then moving to a single career where you could spec into what you want.
STO is already there with ships and boff powers, so would need captain powers, kits and spec sheets to be pooled into one that can either be switched between, or selected from..
All item stats are subject to change based on player feedback. I'm hoping that we can get some test items into your hands in our next push to tribble.
w
I moved my sci over to give them a whirl, but im still of the mind that 20-24 would be better, as it stands im going to give up 65-67 partical gen to get the procs, not sure if that's worth it, essecpially if its like the Tal shiar set bonus and not being proced by grav well even though grav well lists the proc.
I would like to better understand what specifically makes this reputation more "grindy" than other reputations? Is it because you cannot stockpile resources necessary for large XP projects? Is it something else, or is it a combination of things? The more specific and objective you can be, the better I can understand your objections and possibly resolve them.
The first thing that makes this rep more grindy is the inability to play the game I do. I can not get the commendations when I want but when cryptic wants. For example the first day this goes live on Holodeck I then have to get them with in 24 hours of that time every day to keep up with my reputation or I will fall behind. Any days I have life, which everyone should, you will fall behind in the reputation therefore I HAVE to get on STO and get these commendations to continue the rep. That makes it grindy.
Second thing, go beyond the 3 toons cryptic gives you, 6, 10, 30 and you compound that issue even further. It is one thing when it is a special event with special rewards that are great but remember CC doesn't require great gear, high IQ, and even much attention complete.
Thirdly, cryptic now makes it I have play hour after hour to get same 2800 exp for the rep. Again its grindy because if you are trying to rep up multiple toons you are constantly switching between them running the projects.
It would be great to have an extra slot (3 for exp gain) where you can have two 20h projects going and if you had the time you could continuously run this 1h project to powerhouse through the rep.
Also, what about my idea about once a toon has hit t5 the 2000 and 800 turn into account bound token projects where you still turn in marks for these tokens? Then transfer them other toons on the same account to help them along the rep.
Please changed the 200 project to a higher xp amount if it's going to be like this. I was originally excited for the thought of hourly projects, but now I see I'll have to play for four straight hours to even get the original daily cap. Usually I have that kind of time, but with studies.....
While the need for only marks, ec, and exp is nice, it doesn't justify the ridiculous low xp.
Please changed the 200 project to a higher xp amount if it's going to be like this. I was originally excited for the thought of hourly projects, but now I see I'll have to play for four straight hours to even get the original daily cap. Usually I have that kind of time, but with studies.....
While the need for only marks, ec, and exp is nice, it doesn't justify the ridiculous low xp.
Make it 300 or 400 and it will be fine.
Read his later posts. Big project is now 2500. And smaller is now 150 so you get virtually identical to what we had before, with the option to grind the hourly events for multiple time each day to far exceed what we had before. So now it's more flexible.
I implemented this yesterday, but I hesitated to mention it here. Namely because I generally prefer players to see the patch notes, test it and experience it before shooting it down. But, I think enough people are concerned about the issue I decided it was worth mentioning.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
For first time in a long time I am hopeful about the game, even if I cant test the new system (I am silver), it seems to be a lot of less grind that the previous one. Keep at the good work by listening to feedback, that is all we ask.
I would like to better understand what specifically makes this reputation more "grindy" than other reputations? Is it because you cannot stockpile resources necessary for large XP projects? Is it something else, or is it a combination of things? The more specific and objective you can be, the better I can understand your objections and possibly resolve them.
I made a change yesterday to how much experience the daily and hourly XP projects work. The daily now gives 2500 and the hourly now gives 150. So, it's possible to earn 2800 in 1 hour of play assuming you have 10 Dyson Marks upon logging in.
I think the main objection to the grind on this rep is that we cannot stockpile resources and are forced to get the commendations daily. If allowing us to stockpile commendations is not an option then can you at least give us the choice of either filling a marks based large project like the current reps have or the new commendation project. That way we can stockpile marks if needed to still be able to fill a large project on days we don't have time to run missions. Adding back a 20 hour small project option would be nice to, but not nearly as important as the large marks project.
The change to the XP on the large project is definitely a step in the right direction.
The question that I ask is: Why the limit of the commendation of 1 per day? it is specific and to the point and is a major source of concern. Many of us, probably most, are asking for a stockpile of the commendation to better suit our weekday needs, but if you have insight in how this is not feasible or less desirable etc could you share that with us?
Exactly. It seems to me like that commendation was only implemented to gate game play in addition to rep gain, otherwise if we could stockpile commendations wouldn't it be the same as using marks for the big project? Obviously I like playing this game but a huge advantage of the old system was the ability to play when I wanted and just take a minute to set up projects when I couldn't.
Ok Gorgonzolla, that 2500 project is a welcome change, thank you for it. That will allow folks without as much time to still stay fairly caught up with everyone else, while allowing those who have the time to stay to the 2800 we're used to.
Now, can I ask something? Is there a reason why, when you were designing this rep, that it was added in that only one commendation could be gotten per day?
I'm not trying to bait you with that question or anything, I'm honestly curious. I ask so that way we can understand YOUR side of the picture. Learning about why you made certain decisions can help us get a better understanding of it all, then we can reply for why we want something changed.
You asked us (maybe not me specifically, but someone in this thread) to be more specific so you can better help us. Alright, not an issue. I will do my best with that:
People are asking (as least in this thread they are, but I have a feeling it will apply to a lot of players when this is released) to be able to get multiple commendations, or have the timer reduced or removed, so it doesn't feel so restrictive.
What that means, is that those who have the time to log in every day, and play the game to get a commendation and level the new rep, will do so, irregardless of anything else. I know I will probably keep playing the game each day most likely.
But there is still those who cannot play the game every day, or have an odd schedule that could conflict with that 20 hour timer, want to be able to get a few commendations in basically a grind-session, so they don't have to worry about that.
Now, like I mentioned in a previous post, it seems you thought about people farming commendations for that tier 5 project for marks and dil, which is ok. I don't think anyone here is gonna complain about that. But then there is still that time limit double-gating it needlessly.
Anyways, I feel like I might just repeat myself a lot by this point, so I will put down some condensed thoughts:
The 20 hour time limit feels restrictive to people who cannot log in each day to level rep, or even just to those who want to focus on the rep and grind it each day.
Keeping the commendations to one a day does prevent farming, but it also feels like you've already taken care of that in other ways
The 2500 project does help.
I have a feeling there was something else, but that is something at least.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
But there is still those who cannot play the game every day, or have an odd schedule that could conflict with that 20 hour timer, want to be able to get a few commendations in basically a grind-session, so they don't have to worry about that.
Now, like I mentioned in a previous post, it seems you thought about people farming commendations for that tier 5 project for marks and dil, which is ok. I don't think anyone here is gonna complain about that. But then there is still that time limit double-gating it needlessly.
Just a though: if the concerns is somebody pulling in thousands of dilith in a short period from cashing in commendations, why not simply put the restriction on the dilith turn in project? Give it the 20 hour cooldown instead of the large lockout riding on the acquisition of comms..
Just a though: if the concerns is somebody pulling in thousands of dilith in a short period from cashing in commendations, why not simply put the restriction on the dilith turn in project? Give it the 20 hour cooldown instead of the large lockout riding on the acquisition of comms..
It is actually. At tier 5 you unlock a project to turn in for 800-ish dil and like 20 marks, but it is set as a daily. So it's already limited beforehand.
But that is it, it is tier 5 already, so you HAVE to finish leveling rep first, and it's also a daily, so no mass turn-in is possible. Yet from tier 0 to tier 5, and beyond, as it currently stands you are limited to one a day.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I'll just put my view on the whole rep system as follows.
A lot of these reps I will only want the passives on them because the gear in the non-omega reps pretty much isn't needed the way I theme a lot of my alts. More so will most likely be the same thing with this dyson rep especially because the more Cryptic as a whole does ship making for the KDF these alts do not have anything comparable with their themes like gorn, nausicaan, and orions do not have variety in their ship line so they are more so becoming just ground characters.
So I may have like 3 feds and 6 kdf that will actually use non-omega rep gear so in a lot of sense I don't want to bring in ships that aren't suited for missions that will just make people hate me bringing them when they cannot compete on the level of game play needed because Cryptic chooses not to develop KDF ship lines properly so a lot of different problems I mention come together as a flaw in this system. The other problem with them just becoming ground based or away team based is that most of the player base either hates ground or does not understand how it works even tho it is the most simplistic part of combat in this game so that also posses a problem within the system itself. One band aid treatment were to be if the spire holding for KDF pushed some new variant such as there are no orion escorts, no gorn escorts or cruiser/destroyers/dreadnoughts, nausicaan etc.
So in all basically if I wanted to get all my mains and alts repped up and then get the ones I want gear from the reps I would have to play like 24 hours a day just to get them up to par before the next rep comes out.
I think the main objection to the grind on this rep is that we cannot stockpile resources and are forced to get the commendations daily. If allowing us to stockpile commendations is not an option then can you at least give us the choice of either filling a marks based large project like the current reps have or the new commendation project. That way we can stockpile marks if needed to still be able to fill a large project on days we don't have time to run missions. Adding back a 20 hour small project option would be nice to, but not nearly as important as the large marks project.
The change to the XP on the large project is definitely a step in the right direction.
This is my big issue as well. Two suggestions.
1) Allow the daily commendation to also be a rare and random reward from completing any of the missions at any time just like how you can get extra BNPs in STFs.
2) Create another project that allows you to convert Marks into a BNP so we can infact stockpile if we so desire.
So the inability to "stockpile" the commidations seems to be a big concerns, and I can kind of understand that. My work hours sometimes makes it hard to log on and do any serious playing and it is nice to stock up some marks and then when I had that 15-20 minutes I can load up the rep projects and do anything I want rathe than feeling I *have* to farm for the rep in that 15-20 minutes.
I can also see the concern on the dev's side of things though. If there was no cloodown on the commidations, you could spend a weekend or two farming all the commidations you needed for the entire rep (which could be very easy espeically if the adventure zones work like Defera and have all those quests you could do) and then the content is just dead, especially the queue events.
There are some good solutions to help with this though:
1: long duration special project (that goes in that third slot) that converts marks to commidations so you can farm the marks and when you know you won't be able to play much tomorrow you can kind of frontload a commidation to help make up for it. It could even be a timer that is longer than the 20 hours everything else is (like maybe 40 hours), so it's a way to basically earn and extra 25%-50% of a commidation each day which can add up to help offset any days you don't play but doesn't necessarily mean you can stock up and get credit for an entire week of not playing. Since it's long duration it takes up the special project slot so there is definitly a downside to it (i.e. you can't run the other converting to diliitum type projects) and you can't just spend one afternoon to have the whole weeks worth.
2: Let each mission award 1 mark per 20 hours. There is a finite amount of missions, and so this would limit things but still let you save a few extra which helping to encourage people to play all the content and not just the one with the best effort vs reward ratio over and over again.
3: You get one per 20 hours from doing a mission and then add in an aditional quest with a 20 hour cooldown that awards a second commidation for running multiple of the missions. You could even have several versions of this quest that appear randomly each day so that you can say, pick 2 specific missions you have to do to get the second mark without it being the same two every day.
4: You get one commidation per type of content once per 20 hours. One for space adventure, one for ground adventure and one for queued team mission etc etc etc
With Romulans added in LoR there is a possible 12 different characters you can create.
1. Tac Fed
2. Eng Fed
3. Sci Fed
4. Tac Rom Fed
5. Eng Rom Fed
6. Sci Rom Fed
7. Tac KDF
8. Eng KDF
9. Sci KDF
10. Tac Rom KDF
11. Eng Rom KDF
12. Sci Rom KDF
If someone were to have all those characters (myself included) and wanted to run the reputation system on them concurrently would it really be alt "friendly".
12pm- Toon1 - Storming the Spire (average takes 15 minutes)
1216pm- Toon1 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1217pm - Toon2 - Storming the Spire
1232pm - Toon2 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1233pm- Toon3 - Storming the Spire
1249pm- Toon3 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1250pm - Toon4 - Storming the Spire
106pm - Toon4 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
This is obviously the perfect world where connection speeds are best and loading times are non-existent but you can see the cycle. By about the 4th toon you have to cycle back to the first one already to run the 1 hour rep again or if you were fast enough you might have to wait a few minutes for it to finish. Then you have to do that cycle THREE more times for toons 5 through 12! EVERYDAY. That does not seem alt friendly to me at all.
Under the current system all you need to do is just earn enough marks in one go then run the projects for the day and that's it. I do not need to cycle back to that toon at all unless I want to earn more marks for future days. However under the new rep you cant do that because you can not earn more than 1 commendation per day.
I would like to better understand what specifically makes this reputation more "grindy" than other reputations? Is it because you cannot stockpile resources necessary for large XP projects? Is it something else, or is it a combination of things? The more specific and objective you can be, the better I can understand your objections and possibly resolve them.
Indeed, the stockpiling problem it is. As others have pointed out, the project spending the commendation is time gated (apparently as well as the turn in one unlocked at tier 5) and the commendation has no other use. So why can't we get more per day?
If there's some reason you can't reveal for some reason, then I repeat: add more mark only projects of different lenghts with according xp payouts (to avoid the only 150 xp per day as described lower).
I made a change yesterday to how much experience the daily and hourly XP projects work. The daily now gives 2500 and the hourly now gives 150. So, it's possible to earn 2800 in 1 hour of play assuming you have 10 Dyson Marks upon logging in.
This is potentially nice, but only if you want/intend to get the needed commendation upon logging on. If not, and you got the marks from previous play, you'll be only able to get 150 xp for that day, which is even less than before.
You've made progress through the reputation easier, but only for those who can/want to get the commendation every 20 hours. For others, it is actually even slightly worse.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
The only project we can actually stockpile gone from 200xp per tour to 150 per hour so he can buff the 2000xp daily project --- that nobody asked him to so in order to reach 800 xp of the previous project we have to run it for 5/6 hours instead of just 4 ... oh sure the 200o xp pushed to 2500 xp but still 2650 xp =/= 2800 xp, virtually my TRIBBLE, in order to reach equality it would mean 2500 + 150 + 150.
And of course this doesnt address the issue of alts, the main thing on Alts always been the 2000 xp project that under this is nothing but repetition hell, its the very definition of grind and the most amusing (not) thing is their proposed system is going to completely unaffect the 2500 xp project because its only reduces marks inputs that this one lacks.
In short, in what insane reality you live were having to play each day TEN TIMES the exact same content and progress slower is a "improvement"?
you know improvement can mean more convenient, not faster, as it stands now, one stf, or adventure zone thing for your daily, 15 mins, and you can kick off your 2500 project, possibly a 150, and move on, 15 mins, done with that char, is it 150 xp less, yes, but no one said more convenient meant faster, just that's its easier to do.
what you want is convenient and fast, I get everything I used too, and more, for less work. so lets be honest here, this is a easier system, much easier, and it gives rewards just for kicking off projects, its also slower, if you do the bear minimum required each day to start it up. its much faster if you do more then the bare minimum, though not as fast as it was when the project was 200 xp not 150.
So to compromise for convenience, of those that want to spend as little time as possible, we gained 500 xp one one side, and lost a possible 1k extra on the other in 20 hours.
What people really usually want is out of the monotony of doing the same thing 10 times, because they have 10 alts, which it was their choice to make by the way. There is a such thing as overfilling your plate, biting off more then you can chew.
Do I like the current rep system, no, I feel they don't reward people who happen to have more time, they take a bit too long, the bottom end gear was next to useless and a waste to get.
So lets see they have Removed the inconvenience of having to buy commodities to fill out rep, droped all needs on the main rep mission to one token, made the token easy to get in 15-20 mins, lowers the cost of the secondary rep mission, raised its rewards, made it repeatable every hour, and the same 15-20 mins of work can kick off 1-2 of those easy.
even if you only spent a hour online a day you should reasonable be able to do 3-4 chars projects, and kick off a second small project on the first char right before you log off. at the cost of 150 XP less.
Cons, you'll be doing the same stuff over and over again, but you already do that, and you choose to make alts. your not getting a discount for having already done it on another char, we choose to make the alts, we know we are going to have to suffer through it again, do we enjoy it, no, but we invite that on our selves.
bare in mind all this below assumes you don't miss a beat starting up the new projects, as in as soon as a 20 hour ends, you start one. this gives the best raw numbers comparison
I went to tribble and had their 1 knocked out in a day, and I was most of the way through the next tier by the next day, you can hit tier 2 in 3 or less days if you have the time. with 2650 youll be at 15,000, 4.6 days, with 2800 it would have been 4.4 days, in this system, with the 200 XP I could have done it in 3 days. so the biggest jump is the 60-100k tier 5, so lets really crunch some numbers.
you have to run both projects for 2800 14.3 times so 15 times, to hit 40k, that's 12.5 days worth of work.
you have to run both projects for 2650 15.1 we will call it 16 times but given the 1 hour projects this would be doable in 15, 20 hour periods. but its 13.3 days.
So if we round up, the longest tier will take a whole of 1 day longer, doing the absolute bare minimum, over the coarse of all 5 tiers, your looking at maybe 3 days difference all in all.
And that's if you don't do extra short projects in the new system at all, just one every time you kick off a 20 hour.
So your getting items out of the dilithium store that the tiers unlock, one box for each project, your getting more dilithium for the small projects, and you only need to run one thing to get it done, until you start on gear projects.
About the only thing that really detracts from the system is the inability too build up the big tokens for the big project so that you can have them for days when you cant be on for more then a few mins, that honestly is the only really bad part.
the slightly less XP for ease, and ability to accelerate the system if you choose, is a compromise, and convince and compromise tend to go hand in hand.
With Romulans added in LoR there is a possible 12 different characters you can create.
1. Tac Fed
2. Eng Fed
3. Sci Fed
4. Tac Rom Fed
5. Eng Rom Fed
6. Sci Rom Fed
7. Tac KDF
8. Eng KDF
9. Sci KDF
10. Tac Rom KDF
11. Eng Rom KDF
12. Sci Rom KDF
If someone were to have all those characters (myself included) and wanted to run the reputation system on them concurrently would it really be alt "friendly".
12pm- Toon1 - Storming the Spire (average takes 15 minutes)
1216pm- Toon1 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1217pm - Toon2 - Storming the Spire
1232pm - Toon2 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1233pm- Toon3 - Storming the Spire
1249pm- Toon3 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1250pm - Toon4 - Storming the Spire
106pm - Toon4 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
This is obviously the perfect world where connection speeds are best and loading times are non-existent but you can see the cycle. By about the 4th toon you have to cycle back to the first one already to run the 1 hour rep again or if you were fast enough you might have to wait a few minutes for it to finish. Then you have to do that cycle THREE more times for toons 5 through 12! EVERYDAY. That does not seem alt friendly to me at all.
Under the current system all you need to do is just earn enough marks in one go then run the projects for the day and that's it. I do not need to cycle back to that toon at all unless I want to earn more marks for future days. However under the new rep you cant do that because you can not earn more than 1 commendation per day.
I do not know why people keep talking about their alts in this thread. They said they have plans to make gaining the rep on alts easier. Just keep your pants on and wait until they tell us what it is and *then* you can complain that it is too much of a burden for you.
I do not know why people keep talking about their alts in this thread. They said they have plans to make gaining the rep on alts easier. Just keep your pants on and wait until they tell us what it and *then* you can complain that it is too much of a burden for you.
Its a direct correlation to the grindiness of the reputation system that gorn specifically asked about. There would be no grind to it if you only have one character. Also, That is exactly what this is entirely about, how this effects one persons account and all their toons. Its great if cryptic gives discounts once you complete the rep but you still have to do the rep which means if you have many alts its a terrible grind.
sorry to disappoint you all but i play this game 18/7 and from what i see grinders like me dont get anything ok some small amount of dil boost but thats it and some one sayd that omega is most grind rewarding and that's true if every rep was rewarding that well i will consider spend time in Romulus and nakura rep grinds meh 30 rom marks per invested 20mins is a waste of time for me cause for 5 min less i can get ~117 omega marks
500 rom mark by approximately 26 per game = 20 games or average 9 hours
for the same 20 games i will grind approximately 1500 omega marks (and i will be less anoyed)
after one day of grinding rom only my head was going to blow up and i was so annoyed that i was considering deleting the game and going back to other Mmo that is less annoying and more rewarding
im suggesting this as it will be more rewarding to the players like me that actually spend time in the game there is already implemented mark chose box just do it in the every stf in the game as the one that comes with the completing cc event 35 choice all marks per shard right now
about the Dyson reputation my suggestion on that 600xp project make it on every 30min and most of us will be happy even the casual gold/lifetime members (no offence) that almost constantly complain about that they have no time to spend in the game or how hard is for them to actually win an stfe
This is better, but what missions will award these commendations. Will it include solo content?
Sometimes I don't want to do teamed events to get my Marks....
Here's what I know, you'll get a commendation from doing:
1) Spire 5-Man (Normal and Elite)
2) Breach 5-Man (Normal and Elite)
3) Ground Battle Zone Missions - Not sure if this requires 1 mission or multiple, rewards are being finalized
4) Space Adventure Zone Missions - Not sure if this requires 1 mission or multiple, rewards are being finalized
In short, there will be lots of content for solo players! And this content should be awarding commendations and marks. I can't comment on exactly how this will be set up yet, but when I know I will share it.
I know not a single MMO where maxing out one characters means all future ones get born automatically fully geared and max leveled instantly and for free. But in this game people seem to expect and demand it. I'm very sorry, but are you folks ********? Every additional character of course causes work, if you make 10 of them and then realize it is repetitive to keep all of them at the same level... ORLY???! Geez should have thought of that before you decided you HAD to have 10 characters.
Here's what I know, you'll get a commendation from doing:
1) Spire 5-Man (Normal and Elite)
2) Breach 5-Man (Normal and Elite)
3) Ground Battle Zone Missions - Not sure if this requires 1 mission or multiple, rewards are being finalized
4) Space Adventure Zone Missions - Not sure if this requires 1 mission or multiple, rewards are being finalized
In short, there will be lots of content for solo players! And this content should be awarding commendations and marks. I can't comment on exactly how this will be set up yet, but when I know I will share it.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Unless there are a lot of solo missions that are "click this console, then click this console, now you're done" I'd suggest that you can get a commendation from doing just one. Having to do multiples will make it feel like a grind eventually even if the first few times you do it, it's something new and exciting.
Well geez will look at that! Solo content that will be endgame with the proper rewards, thanks for that cheese lizard ( hehe cheesy lizards ), oh and tell branflakes he buried it well ( cover-up master ) he should know!
Pretty much this, nice post.
Its embarasing to even look at some posts how much they complain bringing their alts as a reason. Nobody forced them to create 10, 20 or even 30 toons as I know some have. They have huge profits out of them allready, too much if you ask me. No one sais you HAVE to do the rep, its entirely optional. If it takes a long time then deal with it, it was your choice to create that many toons. In my opinion Cryptic should only concern about how much time takes on 3 or so toons. For 20-30 toons they shouldve make it even harder.
On another note its good to see that the versions of mk X and mk XI were removed. I doubt any1 were using them anyway since the rep system was introduced.
And its a good thing if there is more solo player content, at least for KDF side as an option when they cant get a qeue.
I have many fleet mates with multiple toons, and guess what, THEY NEVER COMPLAIN. Why? because they know it was that choice and that things are not based for people with 10+ toons but for people with 1-3 toons which is probably 95-99% of the players of the game.
Comments
The question that I ask is: Why the limit of the commendation of 1 per day? it is specific and to the point and is a major source of concern. Many of us, probably most, are asking for a stockpile of the commendation to better suit our weekday needs, but if you have insight in how this is not feasible or less desirable etc could you share that with us? I am not trying to exploit, but a 4-5 month rep grind for even 1 toon is what awaits me. I was able to keep the rep systems moving daily in the old system and complete them in closer to 90 days.
There have been lots of posts specifically the inability to stockpile commendations. This is really could be a show stopper for the new rep for me. I am looking at a 20-25 week length trek to completion with weekend play at 2.5k per project and that will likely well overshoot the next rep of S9.
Adding to the the daily is nice, but with alts I will likely only get the 2.5k initially for each of them. There is chatter of an alt friendly addition, and the details are under wraps till finalization, but I am not confident it will cut the grind in more than half for us. Our fleet and some others perhaps run routine weeknight stuff like, pvp tuesdays, no win wednesdays, tholian thursdays (name only, just ground stuff), STFridays. This is my routine active gameplay. Weekends are for Stockpile Saturdays and Sundays < just made that one up but it is a keeper in my book.
Letting us know what you are thinking and getting feedback on things initially could help. I mean the 200xp project/hour was immediately recognized as an issue by the player base, could have saved you some effort.
I believe you read these posts in tribble space. I must implore that stockpiling daily tokens is a major concern. From the amount of vocal concern it would be justified to get a direct answer as to at least why the limit is in place and help us understand why the stockpile is not in the best interests of game play.
When that happens, I'll be at the head of the line to give em a go.
This being the case, and those project being time gated already, I'm not sure why there is a once per day limit.
It seems like this system is just setup for frustration, especially since it will be on the invisible 20 hour clock like the CC shards are. It makes it very inflexible for people to work around schedule wise, and it mandates logging in for at least 20-30 mins everyday, making it a real pain for the weekend warriors. Despite all the other great changes, it might be making this more a chore then something fun that help your progress.
Cool, the sooner the better. Need more missions to do that award the single Commendation. Preferable solo missions as their isn't regular numbers on Tribble for team events...
Also, will we be able to earn the single commendation in solo content, or will we have to do a queued event?
Sounds good, though we could do with other ways of getting Fleet level gear in the Reputations. This is a start.
It is more grindy because instead of getting enough Marks to run both the 2000 and 800 xp projects in one event like in the old system, you would now get one commendation for the same event, and then have to stay on for 4 hours to match what you had before!
However, it looks like you have made a change that would partially solve that issue below..
This is better, but what missions will award these commendations. Will it include solo content?
Sometimes I don't want to do teamed events to get my Marks....
This is nice to know. Dev input has been lacking of late, and if we could get back to the good old days of regular dev interaction, it can only improve the game further
As above, what missions will award these and will it include solo play?
This could be cool. Some other mmo's I play have dual specs, or weapon loadouts that can be switched by a single button.
I would like the idea of eventually moving from the old trinity of Tactical, Science and Engineer. Then moving to a single career where you could spec into what you want.
STO is already there with ships and boff powers, so would need captain powers, kits and spec sheets to be pooled into one that can either be switched between, or selected from..
I moved my sci over to give them a whirl, but im still of the mind that 20-24 would be better, as it stands im going to give up 65-67 partical gen to get the procs, not sure if that's worth it, essecpially if its like the Tal shiar set bonus and not being proced by grav well even though grav well lists the proc.
The first thing that makes this rep more grindy is the inability to play the game I do. I can not get the commendations when I want but when cryptic wants. For example the first day this goes live on Holodeck I then have to get them with in 24 hours of that time every day to keep up with my reputation or I will fall behind. Any days I have life, which everyone should, you will fall behind in the reputation therefore I HAVE to get on STO and get these commendations to continue the rep. That makes it grindy.
Second thing, go beyond the 3 toons cryptic gives you, 6, 10, 30 and you compound that issue even further. It is one thing when it is a special event with special rewards that are great but remember CC doesn't require great gear, high IQ, and even much attention complete.
Thirdly, cryptic now makes it I have play hour after hour to get same 2800 exp for the rep. Again its grindy because if you are trying to rep up multiple toons you are constantly switching between them running the projects.
It would be great to have an extra slot (3 for exp gain) where you can have two 20h projects going and if you had the time you could continuously run this 1h project to powerhouse through the rep.
Also, what about my idea about once a toon has hit t5 the 2000 and 800 turn into account bound token projects where you still turn in marks for these tokens? Then transfer them other toons on the same account to help them along the rep.
While the need for only marks, ec, and exp is nice, it doesn't justify the ridiculous low xp.
Make it 300 or 400 and it will be fine.
Read his later posts. Big project is now 2500. And smaller is now 150 so you get virtually identical to what we had before, with the option to grind the hourly events for multiple time each day to far exceed what we had before. So now it's more flexible.
For first time in a long time I am hopeful about the game, even if I cant test the new system (I am silver), it seems to be a lot of less grind that the previous one. Keep at the good work by listening to feedback, that is all we ask.
Sorry for bad English.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I think the main objection to the grind on this rep is that we cannot stockpile resources and are forced to get the commendations daily. If allowing us to stockpile commendations is not an option then can you at least give us the choice of either filling a marks based large project like the current reps have or the new commendation project. That way we can stockpile marks if needed to still be able to fill a large project on days we don't have time to run missions. Adding back a 20 hour small project option would be nice to, but not nearly as important as the large marks project.
The change to the XP on the large project is definitely a step in the right direction.
Exactly. It seems to me like that commendation was only implemented to gate game play in addition to rep gain, otherwise if we could stockpile commendations wouldn't it be the same as using marks for the big project? Obviously I like playing this game but a huge advantage of the old system was the ability to play when I wanted and just take a minute to set up projects when I couldn't.
Now, can I ask something? Is there a reason why, when you were designing this rep, that it was added in that only one commendation could be gotten per day?
I'm not trying to bait you with that question or anything, I'm honestly curious. I ask so that way we can understand YOUR side of the picture. Learning about why you made certain decisions can help us get a better understanding of it all, then we can reply for why we want something changed.
You asked us (maybe not me specifically, but someone in this thread) to be more specific so you can better help us. Alright, not an issue. I will do my best with that:
People are asking (as least in this thread they are, but I have a feeling it will apply to a lot of players when this is released) to be able to get multiple commendations, or have the timer reduced or removed, so it doesn't feel so restrictive.
What that means, is that those who have the time to log in every day, and play the game to get a commendation and level the new rep, will do so, irregardless of anything else. I know I will probably keep playing the game each day most likely.
But there is still those who cannot play the game every day, or have an odd schedule that could conflict with that 20 hour timer, want to be able to get a few commendations in basically a grind-session, so they don't have to worry about that.
Now, like I mentioned in a previous post, it seems you thought about people farming commendations for that tier 5 project for marks and dil, which is ok. I don't think anyone here is gonna complain about that. But then there is still that time limit double-gating it needlessly.
Anyways, I feel like I might just repeat myself a lot by this point, so I will put down some condensed thoughts:
I have a feeling there was something else, but that is something at least.
Just a though: if the concerns is somebody pulling in thousands of dilith in a short period from cashing in commendations, why not simply put the restriction on the dilith turn in project? Give it the 20 hour cooldown instead of the large lockout riding on the acquisition of comms..
It is actually. At tier 5 you unlock a project to turn in for 800-ish dil and like 20 marks, but it is set as a daily. So it's already limited beforehand.
But that is it, it is tier 5 already, so you HAVE to finish leveling rep first, and it's also a daily, so no mass turn-in is possible. Yet from tier 0 to tier 5, and beyond, as it currently stands you are limited to one a day.
Why, exactly, are you throwing away 800xp a day?
A lot of these reps I will only want the passives on them because the gear in the non-omega reps pretty much isn't needed the way I theme a lot of my alts. More so will most likely be the same thing with this dyson rep especially because the more Cryptic as a whole does ship making for the KDF these alts do not have anything comparable with their themes like gorn, nausicaan, and orions do not have variety in their ship line so they are more so becoming just ground characters.
So I may have like 3 feds and 6 kdf that will actually use non-omega rep gear so in a lot of sense I don't want to bring in ships that aren't suited for missions that will just make people hate me bringing them when they cannot compete on the level of game play needed because Cryptic chooses not to develop KDF ship lines properly so a lot of different problems I mention come together as a flaw in this system. The other problem with them just becoming ground based or away team based is that most of the player base either hates ground or does not understand how it works even tho it is the most simplistic part of combat in this game so that also posses a problem within the system itself. One band aid treatment were to be if the spire holding for KDF pushed some new variant such as there are no orion escorts, no gorn escorts or cruiser/destroyers/dreadnoughts, nausicaan etc.
So in all basically if I wanted to get all my mains and alts repped up and then get the ones I want gear from the reps I would have to play like 24 hours a day just to get them up to par before the next rep comes out.
This is my big issue as well. Two suggestions.
1) Allow the daily commendation to also be a rare and random reward from completing any of the missions at any time just like how you can get extra BNPs in STFs.
2) Create another project that allows you to convert Marks into a BNP so we can infact stockpile if we so desire.
Thats all I got.
I can also see the concern on the dev's side of things though. If there was no cloodown on the commidations, you could spend a weekend or two farming all the commidations you needed for the entire rep (which could be very easy espeically if the adventure zones work like Defera and have all those quests you could do) and then the content is just dead, especially the queue events.
There are some good solutions to help with this though:
1: long duration special project (that goes in that third slot) that converts marks to commidations so you can farm the marks and when you know you won't be able to play much tomorrow you can kind of frontload a commidation to help make up for it. It could even be a timer that is longer than the 20 hours everything else is (like maybe 40 hours), so it's a way to basically earn and extra 25%-50% of a commidation each day which can add up to help offset any days you don't play but doesn't necessarily mean you can stock up and get credit for an entire week of not playing. Since it's long duration it takes up the special project slot so there is definitly a downside to it (i.e. you can't run the other converting to diliitum type projects) and you can't just spend one afternoon to have the whole weeks worth.
2: Let each mission award 1 mark per 20 hours. There is a finite amount of missions, and so this would limit things but still let you save a few extra which helping to encourage people to play all the content and not just the one with the best effort vs reward ratio over and over again.
3: You get one per 20 hours from doing a mission and then add in an aditional quest with a 20 hour cooldown that awards a second commidation for running multiple of the missions. You could even have several versions of this quest that appear randomly each day so that you can say, pick 2 specific missions you have to do to get the second mark without it being the same two every day.
4: You get one commidation per type of content once per 20 hours. One for space adventure, one for ground adventure and one for queued team mission etc etc etc
1. Tac Fed
2. Eng Fed
3. Sci Fed
4. Tac Rom Fed
5. Eng Rom Fed
6. Sci Rom Fed
7. Tac KDF
8. Eng KDF
9. Sci KDF
10. Tac Rom KDF
11. Eng Rom KDF
12. Sci Rom KDF
If someone were to have all those characters (myself included) and wanted to run the reputation system on them concurrently would it really be alt "friendly".
12pm- Toon1 - Storming the Spire (average takes 15 minutes)
1216pm- Toon1 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1217pm - Toon2 - Storming the Spire
1232pm - Toon2 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1233pm- Toon3 - Storming the Spire
1249pm- Toon3 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
1250pm - Toon4 - Storming the Spire
106pm - Toon4 - Run 20h and 1h rep project then switch toons
This is obviously the perfect world where connection speeds are best and loading times are non-existent but you can see the cycle. By about the 4th toon you have to cycle back to the first one already to run the 1 hour rep again or if you were fast enough you might have to wait a few minutes for it to finish. Then you have to do that cycle THREE more times for toons 5 through 12! EVERYDAY. That does not seem alt friendly to me at all.
Under the current system all you need to do is just earn enough marks in one go then run the projects for the day and that's it. I do not need to cycle back to that toon at all unless I want to earn more marks for future days. However under the new rep you cant do that because you can not earn more than 1 commendation per day.
If there's some reason you can't reveal for some reason, then I repeat: add more mark only projects of different lenghts with according xp payouts (to avoid the only 150 xp per day as described lower). This is potentially nice, but only if you want/intend to get the needed commendation upon logging on. If not, and you got the marks from previous play, you'll be only able to get 150 xp for that day, which is even less than before.
You've made progress through the reputation easier, but only for those who can/want to get the commendation every 20 hours. For others, it is actually even slightly worse.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
you know improvement can mean more convenient, not faster, as it stands now, one stf, or adventure zone thing for your daily, 15 mins, and you can kick off your 2500 project, possibly a 150, and move on, 15 mins, done with that char, is it 150 xp less, yes, but no one said more convenient meant faster, just that's its easier to do.
what you want is convenient and fast, I get everything I used too, and more, for less work. so lets be honest here, this is a easier system, much easier, and it gives rewards just for kicking off projects, its also slower, if you do the bear minimum required each day to start it up. its much faster if you do more then the bare minimum, though not as fast as it was when the project was 200 xp not 150.
So to compromise for convenience, of those that want to spend as little time as possible, we gained 500 xp one one side, and lost a possible 1k extra on the other in 20 hours.
What people really usually want is out of the monotony of doing the same thing 10 times, because they have 10 alts, which it was their choice to make by the way. There is a such thing as overfilling your plate, biting off more then you can chew.
Do I like the current rep system, no, I feel they don't reward people who happen to have more time, they take a bit too long, the bottom end gear was next to useless and a waste to get.
So lets see they have Removed the inconvenience of having to buy commodities to fill out rep, droped all needs on the main rep mission to one token, made the token easy to get in 15-20 mins, lowers the cost of the secondary rep mission, raised its rewards, made it repeatable every hour, and the same 15-20 mins of work can kick off 1-2 of those easy.
even if you only spent a hour online a day you should reasonable be able to do 3-4 chars projects, and kick off a second small project on the first char right before you log off. at the cost of 150 XP less.
Cons, you'll be doing the same stuff over and over again, but you already do that, and you choose to make alts. your not getting a discount for having already done it on another char, we choose to make the alts, we know we are going to have to suffer through it again, do we enjoy it, no, but we invite that on our selves.
bare in mind all this below assumes you don't miss a beat starting up the new projects, as in as soon as a 20 hour ends, you start one. this gives the best raw numbers comparison
I went to tribble and had their 1 knocked out in a day, and I was most of the way through the next tier by the next day, you can hit tier 2 in 3 or less days if you have the time. with 2650 youll be at 15,000, 4.6 days, with 2800 it would have been 4.4 days, in this system, with the 200 XP I could have done it in 3 days. so the biggest jump is the 60-100k tier 5, so lets really crunch some numbers.
you have to run both projects for 2800 14.3 times so 15 times, to hit 40k, that's 12.5 days worth of work.
you have to run both projects for 2650 15.1 we will call it 16 times but given the 1 hour projects this would be doable in 15, 20 hour periods. but its 13.3 days.
So if we round up, the longest tier will take a whole of 1 day longer, doing the absolute bare minimum, over the coarse of all 5 tiers, your looking at maybe 3 days difference all in all.
And that's if you don't do extra short projects in the new system at all, just one every time you kick off a 20 hour.
So your getting items out of the dilithium store that the tiers unlock, one box for each project, your getting more dilithium for the small projects, and you only need to run one thing to get it done, until you start on gear projects.
About the only thing that really detracts from the system is the inability too build up the big tokens for the big project so that you can have them for days when you cant be on for more then a few mins, that honestly is the only really bad part.
the slightly less XP for ease, and ability to accelerate the system if you choose, is a compromise, and convince and compromise tend to go hand in hand.
I do not know why people keep talking about their alts in this thread. They said they have plans to make gaining the rep on alts easier. Just keep your pants on and wait until they tell us what it is and *then* you can complain that it is too much of a burden for you.
Its a direct correlation to the grindiness of the reputation system that gorn specifically asked about. There would be no grind to it if you only have one character. Also, That is exactly what this is entirely about, how this effects one persons account and all their toons. Its great if cryptic gives discounts once you complete the rep but you still have to do the rep which means if you have many alts its a terrible grind.
500 rom mark by approximately 26 per game = 20 games or average 9 hours
for the same 20 games i will grind approximately 1500 omega marks (and i will be less anoyed)
after one day of grinding rom only my head was going to blow up and i was so annoyed that i was considering deleting the game and going back to other Mmo that is less annoying and more rewarding
im suggesting this as it will be more rewarding to the players like me that actually spend time in the game there is already implemented mark chose box just do it in the every stf in the game as the one that comes with the completing cc event 35 choice all marks per shard right now
about the Dyson reputation my suggestion on that 600xp project make it on every 30min and most of us will be happy even the casual gold/lifetime members (no offence) that almost constantly complain about that they have no time to spend in the game or how hard is for them to actually win an stfe
have a nice day
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Here's what I know, you'll get a commendation from doing:
1) Spire 5-Man (Normal and Elite)
2) Breach 5-Man (Normal and Elite)
3) Ground Battle Zone Missions - Not sure if this requires 1 mission or multiple, rewards are being finalized
4) Space Adventure Zone Missions - Not sure if this requires 1 mission or multiple, rewards are being finalized
In short, there will be lots of content for solo players! And this content should be awarding commendations and marks. I can't comment on exactly how this will be set up yet, but when I know I will share it.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
I know not a single MMO where maxing out one characters means all future ones get born automatically fully geared and max leveled instantly and for free. But in this game people seem to expect and demand it. I'm very sorry, but are you folks ********? Every additional character of course causes work, if you make 10 of them and then realize it is repetitive to keep all of them at the same level... ORLY???! Geez should have thought of that before you decided you HAD to have 10 characters.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
Unless there are a lot of solo missions that are "click this console, then click this console, now you're done" I'd suggest that you can get a commendation from doing just one. Having to do multiples will make it feel like a grind eventually even if the first few times you do it, it's something new and exciting.
Pretty much this, nice post.
Its embarasing to even look at some posts how much they complain bringing their alts as a reason. Nobody forced them to create 10, 20 or even 30 toons as I know some have. They have huge profits out of them allready, too much if you ask me. No one sais you HAVE to do the rep, its entirely optional. If it takes a long time then deal with it, it was your choice to create that many toons. In my opinion Cryptic should only concern about how much time takes on 3 or so toons. For 20-30 toons they shouldve make it even harder.
On another note its good to see that the versions of mk X and mk XI were removed. I doubt any1 were using them anyway since the rep system was introduced.
And its a good thing if there is more solo player content, at least for KDF side as an option when they cant get a qeue.
YES. THIS. 100%.
I have many fleet mates with multiple toons, and guess what, THEY NEVER COMPLAIN. Why? because they know it was that choice and that things are not based for people with 10+ toons but for people with 1-3 toons which is probably 95-99% of the players of the game.