I'm not sure why you brought pvp into what I said, I never lump pvp and pve together, why because they inevitably foul each other up. Either pve gets hammered because of pvp, see wow and how they are always nerfing things over arena, or the reverse happens and pvp gets hammed because of pve.
Thats why i want the pve passives not active in pvp. I don't want them lumped together and you can appreciate how the rep system does that lumping. Imagine what the passives could be if pvp balance were not an issue.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
My point remains, when did 15 mins on a char once a day become a grind, when did people lower it to that level. I'm trying to wrap my brain around that, and I come up dry.
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Its not that simple, not like it is 15 minutes of your favorite, or even most interesting game play you can find. The 15 minutes was originally everyday, and nearly to the hour with 20 hour cool downs. I try to stay away from the word grind because I do not think it is quite the correct word. The rep system requires numerous repeats of the exactly same mission with exactly the same flow, over and over and over and over again. Not even random spawning, even NWS is scripted, but at least it is hard. The rep missions are easy, so you don't feel like you accomplished anything except you hung in there which isnt exactly exciting game play.
The "whining" is first because it doesnt have to be run like a kindergarten class. Make the rewards less important for people to earn outside of the track of game play in which they prefer.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Its not that simple, not like it is 15 minutes of your favorite, or even most interesting game play you can find. The 15 minutes was originally everyday, and nearly to the hour with 20 hour cool downs. I try to stay away from the word grind because I do not think it is quite the correct word. The rep system requires numerous repeats of the exactly same mission with exactly the same flow, over and over and over and over again. Not even random spawning, even NWS is scripted, but at least it is hard. The rep missions are easy, so you don't feel like you accomplished anything except you hung in there which isnt exactly exciting game play.
This arguement always amuses me because Cryptic has provided tons of different content for us to do for each of the reputation systems, but people only seem to ever do the same 3 things, then complain that they hate the repetition.
If you want more excitement, stop taking the path of least resistance.
I really like the look of the new passives and rep gear from the Dyson rep that I have seen and used so far on tribble. I think they should stay as they are. I can't wait to get that armour.
As for PVP, I strongly agree it needs and deserves an overhaul in many ways, and leave suggestions for improving it to the PVPers. Seperating PVE and (creating!) pvp rep sounds cool.
Its not that simple, not like it is 15 minutes of your favorite, or even most interesting game play you can find. The 15 minutes was originally everyday, and nearly to the hour with 20 hour cool downs. I try to stay away from the word grind because I do not think it is quite the correct word. The rep system requires numerous repeats of the exactly same mission with exactly the same flow, over and over and over and over again. Not even random spawning, even NWS is scripted, but at least it is hard. The rep missions are easy, so you don't feel like you accomplished anything except you hung in there which isnt exactly exciting game play.
The "whining" is first because it doesnt have to be run like a kindergarten class. Make the rewards less important for people to earn outside of the track of game play in which they prefer.
You know I think this kinda gets to the heart of the matter. STO gameplay at end game has hit this point of ultimate boring for the most part. Most of the missions and STFs are simple, repetitive, easy, and have no consequences. Now, sure a game can have some of these traits, and still be a fun game. Take a look at the old arcade games, most of them were simple and repetitive, but most were also either hard, or had some consequence, at the very least your quarter was on the line. But all of these at once, its not fun at least for me. I don't like doing things on autopilot.
Case in point, I think that the Tholian ground boss encounters are fun, mostly because if the team wipes out, you're done. There is a consequence. Yeah, it?s not that much fun if you do wipe out, but up until that point, the mission does get your blood pumping.
What about the following, what if on the elite STFs and similar, instead of amping up the damage and HP of the bad guys, all the spawns were random. For instance, what if in ISE all of the spawns were totally random. So you could end up facing three probes in the front, or three tac cubes. Instead of regen spheres when you kill the generators, you could get probes, or cubes. Or both. Now that could be fun.
What if on the new rep missions you have a point where one of the players has to do some sort of puzzle while being protected from fire by the others. Something like the dilithium mining mini-game.
Unless Cryptic does that, or something else to change at least one of those traits every rep is just another mindless grind.
This arguement always amuses me because Cryptic has provided tons of different content for us to do for each of the reputation systems, but people only seem to ever do the same 3 things, then complain that they hate the repetition.
If you want more excitement, stop taking the path of least resistance.
SNIP
Personally, I did take the hard path. It was called the pre-F2P STFs when they were hour long runs and if you messed up once, you were done. Those were fun, when you beat them you felt like you had accomplished something.
And yes Cryptic has put out a fair amount of stuff, but none of it changes. Every single end game mission is go here, shoot this, go there, shoot that and most of them are exactly the same every time. All of the Borg STFs are always the same with the same NPCs in the same places, acting the same way, and you do the same thing to win. The fleet missions are little better, the only thing that changes are which NPCs are used. Romulan mark missions, pretty much the same as the Borg STFs, same NPCs, same places. Same with Tholian. That is why most people play the same thing over and over to get the marks or dilithium they want. Its all going to be boring sooner or later, so might as well chose the quickest path to get the reward.
Again, I kinda hope for this space adventure zone thing is something more dynamic, even if its simply a change to what you find, even if there are only five things to find, its still better than playing storming the spire for the Nth plus 1 time.
-Added a new project "Deliver Reports of Joint Command Victories". This project requires 350 Dyson Sphere Marks and will output 5 Dyson Joint Command Commendations.
Gorngonzolla, thank you for listening to our concerns!
I believe this project should resolve my primary issue with the new S8 Rep system.
I am curious though... 350 Marks seems like a high number, but I admit that I don't really have an understanding yet on what it takes to get X number of Marks. You commented it should take about 16mins daily to get a Commendation. Will it take about 80mins worth of playing (16x5) to get 350 Marks? Or maybe 90mins or 120mins worth of play to account for the opportunity cost of stockpiling? I'm ok with that, but just wondering about the metric used to come up with 350.
...Probably the biggest reason for Commendations, and daily content in general is to encourage players to log-in every day. This means more people to do queued events with, more people in the Ground Battle Zone (you'll see why this is important soon!), more people to group with and a more active living world...
Again, thanks for taking time to explain things. I guess I can appreciate/understand this. I just wish Cryptic had a way to encourage such regular play without making it seem so coerced.
If you want more excitement, stop taking the path of least resistance.
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Scripted PvE is not excitement, i chose the path of least boredom and only ask to be able to separate it. I would not touch rep unless there was a good piece of gear, which would probably play to a specific character. But there is only one way to get passives, rep and there is only one way to get the rep, pve missions which vary in length of play, but not excitement.
I don't like knowing exactly what distance to put myself from an object and where to go next, how to set up my cooldowns on boffs. Rep requires missions that run like rehearsed plays, not dynamic combat or exploration.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Got to T2 today, queued up the Deflector project (Didn't have enough Dil to buy it outright; Wish the Dil exchange was turned on so I could transfer dil between characters). This allowed me to view the types of the other equipment.
The Shield is a Regen Shield, and the Engine is a Combat Engine. Both of these are the worst types in their category. Regen shields largely aren't needed, especially at endgame, because it's too easy to heal your shields. Only massive spike or really High Sustained DPS causes for worry, and Regen shields won't make a difference in the Sustained DPS case. As for the engines, at End Game, it's very easy to get your engine power in the 40+ range, and easy to get into the 60+ range, in both cases, not sacrificing other power levels. At those power levels, Regular Impulse and Hyper Impulse out perform Combat Engines.
My recommendation: Make the Shield Resilient/Covariant (The former is considered the best choice for PvE and the latter for PvP), or even a Normal. Just not a regen. Make the Engine Normal/Hyper; I doubt anybody has low enough power levels to make Combat an optimal choice.
...My recommendation: Make the Shield Resilient/Covariant (The former is considered the best choice for PvE and the latter for PvP), or even a Normal. Just not a regen. Make the Engine Normal/Hyper; I doubt anybody has low enough power levels to make Combat an optimal choice.
Agreed.
/10 char
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
The Shield is a Regen Shield, and the Engine is a Combat Engine. Both of these are the worst types in their category. Regen shields largely aren't needed, especially at endgame, because it's too easy to heal your shields. Only massive spike or really High Sustained DPS causes for worry, and Regen shields won't make a difference in the Sustained DPS case. As for the engines, at End Game, it's very easy to get your engine power in the 40+ range, and easy to get into the 60+ range, in both cases, not sacrificing other power levels. At those power levels, Regular Impulse and Hyper Impulse out perform Combat Engines.
My recommendation: Make the Shield Resilient/Covariant (The former is considered the best choice for PvE and the latter for PvP), or even a Normal. Just not a regen. Make the Engine Normal/Hyper; I doubt anybody has low enough power levels to make Combat an optimal choice.
My recommendation: Make ALL regen shields and combat engines more desirable.
I really hope the new Voth stuff (shield, deflector, engine) is actually worth the price. The Romulan and Tholian stuff was pretty but useless.
I think it is a 4 piece set with warp core. It is listed as better than Omega, we will see if thats a true comparison or if they made the 4 piece better than omega + fleet engine.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
We will be bringing down the Tribble server for maintenance to apply a new update: ST.35.20131007a.16
New Features:
Reputation Sponsorship:
This feature allows players that have maxed out a reputation on one character to have double reputation experience for all of their alts in that same rep.
Characters that have reached Tier 5 in any Reputation will see a new project available in that Reputation: "Begin Sponsorship Procedures for Upcoming Officer"
This project costs 100 Marks from the applicable Reputation, and completes in ~5 seconds.
Completing this Project will reward that T5 Character with a Sponsorship Token applicable to that Reputation.
This Token is Bind-to-Account-on-Pickup, and is designed to be traded to other characters on your account via your Account Shared Bank.
This project can be repeated as many times as necessary.
All characters will see a new Tier 1 Project in each reputation: "Claim Sponsorship"
This project may not be immediately visible until a character interacts with the Reputation System in some way.
Even something as simple as slotting any project then canceling it will trigger the projects to appear.
Even though this is a T1 Project, it can be run by any character of any rank other than Tier 5.
This project requires just one Sponsorship Token (no other inputs) and completes in ~5 seconds.
Completing this Project will reward that character with Double Reputation XP in that specific Reputation, for the remainder of that character's lifetime.
This means that the Projects that previously rewarded 2000xp and 800xp will now give 4000xp and 1600xp.
For testing purposes only on Tribble, projects will now complete in 30 seconds instead of their stated time.
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This and the fact we can stockpile commendations now I thank you. While 350 marks may be a lot and may take awhile to grind out it is still an appreciated change. Both of these changes are goodwill gestures on cryptics part and I am happy for them.
I already favor Combat Impulse engines, personally, because of the low-setting efficiency bonus. My engines are always set low. Regen shields are okay. While you're at it, take a look at beams, DBBs, Single Cannons, and Dual (non-Heavy) Cannons, please. Beams have a moderate use, and non-DHCs are all-but useless.
Y'know I've never really paid much attention to the different impulse engines before, how does hyper and combat engines determine what is "high" or "low" engine power exactly? Does this take into account power bonuses caused by adding points into stuff like warp core efficiency, or from consoles like plasmonic leech, or even the MACO shield power buff? Or is it based purely on what the power level slider is set to?
I'm....undecided on how I feel about this new change. I wanna give it a proper test before I say too much.
But, what I can see, at least at a glance is:
Pros:
1. Requires half the time to level an alt's rep if you use this.
2. While you are waiting, if you choose to wait, you can gather resources for when you get the token thingy.
3. Less 'stress' to worry about getting an alt through rep, because you can focus on one toon, then work on the others when that is done.
4. Might help encourage alting more.
5. The less painful filling requirements make them easier to fill and less 'slide bars' online.
Khans:
1. It still means that other toons are gonna sit by the wayside if you choose. And really how bad this one is depends on how many toons you have that you wanna rep up.
2. Technically still gotta do it for the full time on one toon, but...they gotta keep us playing somehow, can't have our e-cake and e-eat it too.
Worries:
1. Still worried about the commendation thing.
2. Also worried about how bad the gear grind might be. Though the new rep does seem to be making it easier.
So, so far I wanna say that I do like it. BUT I will then follow that up by saying I wanna give it an honest test so I can give honest feedback. Paper and words are nice, but being able to test it is much better.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I already favor Combat Impulse engines, personally, because of the low-setting efficiency bonus. My engines are always set low. Regen shields are okay. While you're at it, take a look at beams, DBBs, Single Cannons, and Dual (non-Heavy) Cannons, please. Beams have a moderate use, and non-DHCs are all-but useless.
Setting does not matter. Combats have the highest base speed but have the lowest extra speed per real power point. Hypers have the lowest basr speed but the most extra speed per real power point. Regulars are in the middle. Hypers give you the highest speed rating at around 45+ total power (that is the X number in the X/Y display). This ount of power is easy to obtain in the modern state of the game; there is no logical reason to not use a hyper. The exception is the Borg normal impulse engine; on some ships the extra +5 power beats out a hyper.
I agree with the previous sentiment that regen shields, and combat and normal engines need to be made more desirable.
I agree with the previous sentiment that regen shields, and combat and normal engines need to be made more desirable.
Given all the power creep, you have to really try to keep the engine power low. As far as regen shields go, they are as obsolete as the Tetryon weapons proc given the state of the game at the moment.
Given all the power creep, you have to really try to keep the engine power low. As far as regen shields go, they are as obsolete as the Tetryon weapons proc given the state of the game at the moment.
There are ways you can make things useful. Perhaps like a 5% chance on damage, Regen shields heal for half of the damage they just got dealt.
This wasn't designed to help people with tons of alts, this was designed to help weekend warriors....[
<REDACTED>
I was in no way insulting the Gorn, so please stop insulting people.
Stahl and Geko clearly said on their interviews on Podcasts like Priority One that the new Reputation (The Dyson Sphere) was going to implement new ways to help those with multiple character the account. I was not seeing that.........until today (See Coldsnapped's post).
This feature allows players that have maxed out a reputation on one character to have double reputation experience for all of their alts in that same rep.
Characters that have reached Tier 5 in any Reputation will see a new project available in that Reputation: "Begin Sponsorship Procedures for Upcoming Officer"
This project costs 100 Marks from the applicable Reputation, and completes in ~5 seconds.
Completing this Project will reward that T5 Character with a Sponsorship Token applicable to that Reputation.
This Token is Bind-to-Account-on-Pickup, and is designed to be traded to other characters on your account via your Account Shared Bank.
This project can be repeated as many times as necessary.
All characters will see a new Tier 1 Project in each reputation: "Claim Sponsorship"
This project may not be immediately visible until a character interacts with the Reputation System in some way.
Even something as simple as slotting any project then canceling it will trigger the projects to appear.
Even though this is a T1 Project, it can be run by any character of any rank other than Tier 5.
This project requires just one Sponsorship Token (no other inputs) and completes in ~5 seconds.
Completing this Project will reward that character with Double Reputation XP in that specific Reputation, for the remainder of that character's lifetime.
This means that the Projects that previously rewarded 2000xp and 800xp will now give 4000xp and 1600xp.
For testing purposes only on Tribble, projects will now complete in 30 seconds instead of their stated time.
Okay, so if I get this right, we have to complete all of the reputation on one character in order to get the discount?
No offense, but if this is the case, then I fail to see how this will benefit players with multiple characters unless they work on one character at a time. But tons of players play with multiple characters per day, so this system would not benefit them at all.
About the "alt whiners", i doubt they are sily or stupid, but actually smart. My guess is that some of them just want to trick the devs to give them an exploit to break the 8k dil refine cap thru alts, by getting the commendations easy and fast on good geared toons, then transfering them to mule alts to be transformed into dil (if the commendations will be made account transferable as it seems they will). Sure something similar can be done even now with doffing and the contraband to dil doff mission, but since greed has no cap, why not to sell the contraband and get another way to get 8k dil on their alts army.
I belive thats why the double cd duration was put in here in the first place. Maybe a failsafe could be implemented, like after u finish the rep and the dil mission is unlocked, to not be able to transfer anything to that char. You would still help your alts to get the passive powers...
Excuse me, but there are people who legitimately play the game that have multiple characters who really have no intention of exploiting or "Tricking the Devs". People just don't want to spend all their free time "working" on the game than enjoying it.
Besides..........why does it matter? People still have to work to earn that Dilithium on multiple characters. :rolleyes:
My point remains, when did 15 mins on a char once a day become a grind, when did people lower it to that level. I'm trying to wrap my brain around that, and I come up dry.
Oh goodness, you misunderstand. On one character it's not bad, but the more characters......the more troublesome the grind becomes. Two characters, you practically devote 40-45 minutes, Four characters you are looking at like 1 hr and 30 minutes worth of playtime..........you see the picture.
And if you are a casual player that spends 2-3 hours per day or for parents, probably have like 6-7 hours per week to spend playing the game, you just don't have time for that. And if you factor in collecting Dilithium and Fleet marks on top of the reputations, it really kills your free time. And many players like to have that option to go "hmm, what can I do today"? If you take away that freedom of choice, they lose interest.
Okay, so if I get this right, we have to complete all of the reputation on one character in order to get the discount?
No offense, but if this is the case, then I fail to see how this will benefit players with multiple characters unless they work on one character at a time. But tons of players play with multiple characters per day, so this system would not benefit them at all.
If there wasn't a requirement to finish a reputation first then this would be in no way a change for alts but a boost for all characters, regardless if it's a single character. Once any character is done, it'll benefit all your alts, regardless if it's 10 or 500. You have to make new tokens for each, but that is the least you can do...
The only other compromise they could make it make it tier dependant, so you can unlock tier wise, but then it'd be really clunky to use.
There will never be account wide reputation and it seems that is the only thing that would satisfy you. They won't do that, accept it and get over it.
If there wasn't a requirement to finish a reputation first then this would be in no way a change for alts but a boost for all characters, regardless if it's a single character. Once any character is done, it'll benefit all your alts, regardless if it's 10 or 500. You have to make new tokens for each, but that is the least you can do...
The only other compromise they could make it make it tier dependant, so you can unlock tier wise, but then it'd be really clunky to use.
There will never be account wide reputation and it seems that is the only thing that would satisfy you. They won't do that, <REDACTED>.
I'm sorry but you are not a member of the Cryptic team so you can't say what they will or will not do.
And I'm pretty much sure I never asked for an "account reputation system". So please stop putting words in my mouth.
But I'm sure people will be thrilled to having to wait 6 weeks to complete their reputation on one character in order to get the XP bonuses on their alts. Just in order to get a few weeks shaved off on their alts. That is going to go over soooooo well with the playerbase. :rolleyes:
I'm sorry but you are not a member of the Cryptic team so you can't say what they will or will not do.
And I'm pretty much sure I never asked for an "account reputation system". So please stop putting words in my mouth.
But I'm sure people will be thrilled to having to wait 6 weeks to complete their reputation on one character in order to get the XP bonuses on their alts. Just in order to get a few weeks shaved off on their alts. That is going to go over soooooo well with the playerbase. :rolleyes:
I really like it.
But guess what, I don't rush my reputation on all my toons at once. I tend to run 3 at a time and I only ever run the 2k exp project (the 800 exp has a lower mark to exp ratio and is inefficient) and they get done when they get done.
Now I will grind it out on one toon, 40 days. At the same time stockpiling commendations on my alts. Then in 20 after they will cap out. This is a great change.
It also encourages you to create new toons/alts. Another plus.
Honestly what more do you want? Half the time/resources for every character after the first is amazing.
If there wasn't a requirement to finish a reputation first then this would be in no way a change for alts but a boost for all characters, regardless if it's a single character. Once any character is done, it'll benefit all your alts, regardless if it's 10 or 500. You have to make new tokens for each, but that is the least you can do...
The only other compromise they could make it make it tier dependant, so you can unlock tier wise, but then it'd be really clunky to use.
There will never be account wide reputation and it seems that is the only thing that would satisfy you. They won't do that, accept it and get over it.
They will do something very similiar to account rep soon. 10 reps on a new toon on their next LOR-like release, will be a major impediment to people trying out new species. We just want the solution now instead of later so it can benefit game play immediately.
Do realize that if there are fewer captains active in the game there is less demand for ships, not saying there is no demand, but less which hurts their expansion. All players should be on board with account wide rep. It helps anyone with alts and at the least does not hurt single character players.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
It also encourages you to create new toons/alts. Another plus.
I wouldn't say this encourages new toons, but rather is less discouraging to keeping current toons up on all the new reps. I am not excited about starting a romulan yet. Event doing half the rep from the beginning is just a big nogasm.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
Completing this Project will reward that character with Double Reputation XP in that specific Reputation, for the remainder of that character's lifetime.
This means that the Projects that previously rewarded 2000xp and 800xp will now give 4000xp and 1600xp.
This is a nice change for people that have one finished char and decide to start an alt.
However it does nothing for people that already have alts and now will do the Dyson rep for them: Either they'll leave their alts behind for weeks until their main is finished, or they keep playing them, doing rep stuff on more than one char simultaneously - and gain nothing, wasting the sponsorship benefits. A disappointing outcome.
Would it be possible to alter Sponsorship to not only double the xp of future projects, but also to double previously earned xp? Like you already have 50k rep on your alt, use the token, and get it doubled to 100k? The same outcome as the currently implemented variant, but instead of ignoring rep on our alts for weeks, we can play them regularly, earning the needed rep, and have all our chars finished at the same time as our main. This would drastically increase usefulness of sponsorship, especially while doing newly added reps for several chars.
(initially posted this in the patchnotes, but might be more fitting over here)
Idea for the Engines: All provide the same base speed. Hypers get more speed per Engine Power Point and Combats get more turn per Engine Power Point. Normal impulse engines, like always, fall in the middle.
But guess what, I don't rush my reputation on all my toons at once. I tend to run 3 at a time and I only ever run the 2k exp project (the 800 exp has a lower mark to exp ratio and is inefficient) and they get done when they get done.
Now I will grind it out on one toon, 40 days. At the same time stockpiling commendations on my alts. Then in 20 after they will cap out. This is a great change.
It also encourages you to create new toons/alts. Another plus.
Honestly what more do you want? Half the time/resources for every character after the first is amazing.
It may not be ideal, but it does help.
Just as a personal anecdote for this system: I have currently 5 toons/characters/alts I want to be "main"...but I've only got 2 fully ranked on Reps. Honestly, I can only handle 2 characters' Reps at a time.
This system will help me get those toons, and perhaps others, up in half the time. I can close the gap *significantly* by getting double XP on other toons.
I was never expecting "Tier 5 on one = Tier 5 on all." I was expecting the system to cut the grind time by X% (depending on what Cryptic/PWE wanted to give us).
This answers my concerns perfectly. So what it takes 100 Marks per toon to get the token to those toons/alts? 100 Marks to cut half the grind out? That's still a bargain.
Comments
Thats why i want the pve passives not active in pvp. I don't want them lumped together and you can appreciate how the rep system does that lumping. Imagine what the passives could be if pvp balance were not an issue.
Its not that simple, not like it is 15 minutes of your favorite, or even most interesting game play you can find. The 15 minutes was originally everyday, and nearly to the hour with 20 hour cool downs. I try to stay away from the word grind because I do not think it is quite the correct word. The rep system requires numerous repeats of the exactly same mission with exactly the same flow, over and over and over and over again. Not even random spawning, even NWS is scripted, but at least it is hard. The rep missions are easy, so you don't feel like you accomplished anything except you hung in there which isnt exactly exciting game play.
The "whining" is first because it doesnt have to be run like a kindergarten class. Make the rewards less important for people to earn outside of the track of game play in which they prefer.
This arguement always amuses me because Cryptic has provided tons of different content for us to do for each of the reputation systems, but people only seem to ever do the same 3 things, then complain that they hate the repetition.
If you want more excitement, stop taking the path of least resistance.
I really like the look of the new passives and rep gear from the Dyson rep that I have seen and used so far on tribble. I think they should stay as they are. I can't wait to get that armour.
As for PVP, I strongly agree it needs and deserves an overhaul in many ways, and leave suggestions for improving it to the PVPers. Seperating PVE and (creating!) pvp rep sounds cool.
You know I think this kinda gets to the heart of the matter. STO gameplay at end game has hit this point of ultimate boring for the most part. Most of the missions and STFs are simple, repetitive, easy, and have no consequences. Now, sure a game can have some of these traits, and still be a fun game. Take a look at the old arcade games, most of them were simple and repetitive, but most were also either hard, or had some consequence, at the very least your quarter was on the line. But all of these at once, its not fun at least for me. I don't like doing things on autopilot.
Case in point, I think that the Tholian ground boss encounters are fun, mostly because if the team wipes out, you're done. There is a consequence. Yeah, it?s not that much fun if you do wipe out, but up until that point, the mission does get your blood pumping.
What about the following, what if on the elite STFs and similar, instead of amping up the damage and HP of the bad guys, all the spawns were random. For instance, what if in ISE all of the spawns were totally random. So you could end up facing three probes in the front, or three tac cubes. Instead of regen spheres when you kill the generators, you could get probes, or cubes. Or both. Now that could be fun.
What if on the new rep missions you have a point where one of the players has to do some sort of puzzle while being protected from fire by the others. Something like the dilithium mining mini-game.
Unless Cryptic does that, or something else to change at least one of those traits every rep is just another mindless grind.
EDIT: since I take so long typing.
Personally, I did take the hard path. It was called the pre-F2P STFs when they were hour long runs and if you messed up once, you were done. Those were fun, when you beat them you felt like you had accomplished something.
And yes Cryptic has put out a fair amount of stuff, but none of it changes. Every single end game mission is go here, shoot this, go there, shoot that and most of them are exactly the same every time. All of the Borg STFs are always the same with the same NPCs in the same places, acting the same way, and you do the same thing to win. The fleet missions are little better, the only thing that changes are which NPCs are used. Romulan mark missions, pretty much the same as the Borg STFs, same NPCs, same places. Same with Tholian. That is why most people play the same thing over and over to get the marks or dilithium they want. Its all going to be boring sooner or later, so might as well chose the quickest path to get the reward.
Again, I kinda hope for this space adventure zone thing is something more dynamic, even if its simply a change to what you find, even if there are only five things to find, its still better than playing storming the spire for the Nth plus 1 time.
Nouveau riche LTS member
I believe this project should resolve my primary issue with the new S8 Rep system.
I am curious though... 350 Marks seems like a high number, but I admit that I don't really have an understanding yet on what it takes to get X number of Marks. You commented it should take about 16mins daily to get a Commendation. Will it take about 80mins worth of playing (16x5) to get 350 Marks? Or maybe 90mins or 120mins worth of play to account for the opportunity cost of stockpiling? I'm ok with that, but just wondering about the metric used to come up with 350.
Again, thanks for taking time to explain things. I guess I can appreciate/understand this. I just wish Cryptic had a way to encourage such regular play without making it seem so coerced.
Never be sorry for this! There's few things I like better than a long, detailed Dev Post.
As someone with 14 regular Alts (and who wants to make more to buy/try more ships) I'm really looking forward to this.
In fact, dunno what I'm looking forward to more: Alt-Friendly Rep updates, or Dinos with friggin' Lay-Zors!
:cool:
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Scripted PvE is not excitement, i chose the path of least boredom and only ask to be able to separate it. I would not touch rep unless there was a good piece of gear, which would probably play to a specific character. But there is only one way to get passives, rep and there is only one way to get the rep, pve missions which vary in length of play, but not excitement.
I don't like knowing exactly what distance to put myself from an object and where to go next, how to set up my cooldowns on boffs. Rep requires missions that run like rehearsed plays, not dynamic combat or exploration.
The Shield is a Regen Shield, and the Engine is a Combat Engine. Both of these are the worst types in their category. Regen shields largely aren't needed, especially at endgame, because it's too easy to heal your shields. Only massive spike or really High Sustained DPS causes for worry, and Regen shields won't make a difference in the Sustained DPS case. As for the engines, at End Game, it's very easy to get your engine power in the 40+ range, and easy to get into the 60+ range, in both cases, not sacrificing other power levels. At those power levels, Regular Impulse and Hyper Impulse out perform Combat Engines.
My recommendation: Make the Shield Resilient/Covariant (The former is considered the best choice for PvE and the latter for PvP), or even a Normal. Just not a regen. Make the Engine Normal/Hyper; I doubt anybody has low enough power levels to make Combat an optimal choice.
/10 char
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
My recommendation: Make ALL regen shields and combat engines more desirable.
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
I think it is a 4 piece set with warp core. It is listed as better than Omega, we will see if thats a true comparison or if they made the 4 piece better than omega + fleet engine.
This and the fact we can stockpile commendations now I thank you. While 350 marks may be a lot and may take awhile to grind out it is still an appreciated change. Both of these changes are goodwill gestures on cryptics part and I am happy for them.
This guy gets it.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I already favor Combat Impulse engines, personally, because of the low-setting efficiency bonus. My engines are always set low. Regen shields are okay. While you're at it, take a look at beams, DBBs, Single Cannons, and Dual (non-Heavy) Cannons, please. Beams have a moderate use, and non-DHCs are all-but useless.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
But, what I can see, at least at a glance is:
Pros:
1. Requires half the time to level an alt's rep if you use this.
2. While you are waiting, if you choose to wait, you can gather resources for when you get the token thingy.
3. Less 'stress' to worry about getting an alt through rep, because you can focus on one toon, then work on the others when that is done.
4. Might help encourage alting more.
5. The less painful filling requirements make them easier to fill and less 'slide bars' online.
Khans:
1. It still means that other toons are gonna sit by the wayside if you choose. And really how bad this one is depends on how many toons you have that you wanna rep up.
2. Technically still gotta do it for the full time on one toon, but...they gotta keep us playing somehow, can't have our e-cake and e-eat it too.
Worries:
1. Still worried about the commendation thing.
2. Also worried about how bad the gear grind might be. Though the new rep does seem to be making it easier.
So, so far I wanna say that I do like it. BUT I will then follow that up by saying I wanna give it an honest test so I can give honest feedback. Paper and words are nice, but being able to test it is much better.
I agree with the previous sentiment that regen shields, and combat and normal engines need to be made more desirable.
If this new reputation system has Khans, we might be in trouble.
Given all the power creep, you have to really try to keep the engine power low. As far as regen shields go, they are as obsolete as the Tetryon weapons proc given the state of the game at the moment.
I was in no way insulting the Gorn, so please stop insulting people.
Stahl and Geko clearly said on their interviews on Podcasts like Priority One that the new Reputation (The Dyson Sphere) was going to implement new ways to help those with multiple character the account. I was not seeing that.........until today (See Coldsnapped's post).
Thank you.
Okay, so if I get this right, we have to complete all of the reputation on one character in order to get the discount?
No offense, but if this is the case, then I fail to see how this will benefit players with multiple characters unless they work on one character at a time. But tons of players play with multiple characters per day, so this system would not benefit them at all.
Excuse me, but there are people who legitimately play the game that have multiple characters who really have no intention of exploiting or "Tricking the Devs". People just don't want to spend all their free time "working" on the game than enjoying it.
Besides..........why does it matter? People still have to work to earn that Dilithium on multiple characters. :rolleyes:
Oh goodness, you misunderstand. On one character it's not bad, but the more characters......the more troublesome the grind becomes. Two characters, you practically devote 40-45 minutes, Four characters you are looking at like 1 hr and 30 minutes worth of playtime..........you see the picture.
And if you are a casual player that spends 2-3 hours per day or for parents, probably have like 6-7 hours per week to spend playing the game, you just don't have time for that. And if you factor in collecting Dilithium and Fleet marks on top of the reputations, it really kills your free time. And many players like to have that option to go "hmm, what can I do today"? If you take away that freedom of choice, they lose interest.
If there wasn't a requirement to finish a reputation first then this would be in no way a change for alts but a boost for all characters, regardless if it's a single character. Once any character is done, it'll benefit all your alts, regardless if it's 10 or 500. You have to make new tokens for each, but that is the least you can do...
The only other compromise they could make it make it tier dependant, so you can unlock tier wise, but then it'd be really clunky to use.
There will never be account wide reputation and it seems that is the only thing that would satisfy you. They won't do that, accept it and get over it.
I'm sorry but you are not a member of the Cryptic team so you can't say what they will or will not do.
And I'm pretty much sure I never asked for an "account reputation system". So please stop putting words in my mouth.
But I'm sure people will be thrilled to having to wait 6 weeks to complete their reputation on one character in order to get the XP bonuses on their alts. Just in order to get a few weeks shaved off on their alts. That is going to go over soooooo well with the playerbase. :rolleyes:
I really like it.
But guess what, I don't rush my reputation on all my toons at once. I tend to run 3 at a time and I only ever run the 2k exp project (the 800 exp has a lower mark to exp ratio and is inefficient) and they get done when they get done.
Now I will grind it out on one toon, 40 days. At the same time stockpiling commendations on my alts. Then in 20 after they will cap out. This is a great change.
It also encourages you to create new toons/alts. Another plus.
Honestly what more do you want? Half the time/resources for every character after the first is amazing.
They will do something very similiar to account rep soon. 10 reps on a new toon on their next LOR-like release, will be a major impediment to people trying out new species. We just want the solution now instead of later so it can benefit game play immediately.
Do realize that if there are fewer captains active in the game there is less demand for ships, not saying there is no demand, but less which hurts their expansion. All players should be on board with account wide rep. It helps anyone with alts and at the least does not hurt single character players.
I wouldn't say this encourages new toons, but rather is less discouraging to keeping current toons up on all the new reps. I am not excited about starting a romulan yet. Event doing half the rep from the beginning is just a big nogasm.
This is a nice change for people that have one finished char and decide to start an alt.
However it does nothing for people that already have alts and now will do the Dyson rep for them: Either they'll leave their alts behind for weeks until their main is finished, or they keep playing them, doing rep stuff on more than one char simultaneously - and gain nothing, wasting the sponsorship benefits. A disappointing outcome.
Would it be possible to alter Sponsorship to not only double the xp of future projects, but also to double previously earned xp? Like you already have 50k rep on your alt, use the token, and get it doubled to 100k? The same outcome as the currently implemented variant, but instead of ignoring rep on our alts for weeks, we can play them regularly, earning the needed rep, and have all our chars finished at the same time as our main. This would drastically increase usefulness of sponsorship, especially while doing newly added reps for several chars.
(initially posted this in the patchnotes, but might be more fitting over here)
It may not be ideal, but it does help.
Just as a personal anecdote for this system: I have currently 5 toons/characters/alts I want to be "main"...but I've only got 2 fully ranked on Reps. Honestly, I can only handle 2 characters' Reps at a time.
This system will help me get those toons, and perhaps others, up in half the time. I can close the gap *significantly* by getting double XP on other toons.
I was never expecting "Tier 5 on one = Tier 5 on all." I was expecting the system to cut the grind time by X% (depending on what Cryptic/PWE wanted to give us).
This answers my concerns perfectly. So what it takes 100 Marks per toon to get the token to those toons/alts? 100 Marks to cut half the grind out? That's still a bargain.
If I have say, 2 characters, with all-max reps, can I have them both send a Sponsorship Token to the same alt to get double the double rep XP?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]