if this is the quality of post this nonsense thread attracts, i think its time to stop bumping it.
Pahaha you shot the poor lad down in the prime of his posting career
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
I made this post a day ago, or what. It's funny how the thread exploded just as much as the Beam overload nerf thread.
Keep the discussion going
(ps i dont find aux2bat OP at all, i know the advantages and drawbacks like any single one of you, i just found it fun to show you how an equal amount of ppl are interested in the Nerf Aux2bat as with the Beam overload thread)
kkchnk
ah okay, i also wondered and i found it a bit suspective why you of all people thought that aux2batt would be op atm ^^
personally i am not interested in a nerf, it should be rather buffed lol
a2b is pure PvE, it only increases DPS. It neuters some of the best heals every 10 sec, which probably means everything in STO is a counter to it.
It puzzles me how people think it's OP.
Mostly because it can pretty much double the amount of boff skills available, effectively. Thereby borking (either of) two core balancing mechanisms in this game: cooldowns and/or the limiting of boff slots available to a ship. I think.
Though the maxed out power levels are a nice touch in their own right.
Something doesn't have to be free of downsides to be OP; the good stuff just needs to outweigh the bad stuff by a large margin. Being able to activate those neutered heals way more often kind of makes up for the amount they heal.
@1 Aux or @130 Aux, HE1 will clear the stacked PDoTs from a DPB3 Plasma Mines, will clear the stacked PDoTs from normal Plasma Torps, will clear the PDoTs from Hyper Torps, the PDoT from the HY Omega, the DoT from the Beach Ball, EWP, AB, Siphon, etc, etc, etc...
Damage not taken is damage you don't have to heal...negative consequences that are removed are no longer negative consequences.
It becomes clear that Cruiser pilots love A2B, while Escort pilots hate it!:D
Come on, Escort pilots...don't you want a little more challenge when fighting the big and slow whales?
Do you always like to win too easy thanks to your insane spike damage?:P
AtB's not a Cruiser/Battle Cruiser only thing though...
Mostly because it can pretty much double the amount of boff skills available, effectively. Thereby borking (either of) two core balancing mechanisms in this game: cooldowns and/or the limiting of boff slots available to a ship. I think.
Though the maxed out power levels are a nice touch in their own right.
Something doesn't have to be free of downsides to be OP; the good stuff just needs to outweigh the bad stuff by a large margin. Being able to activate those neutered heals way more often kind of makes up for the amount they heal.
borking a core balancing mechanic? is it borked when you run 2 copies of CRF on an escort? AtB does not bypass a single intentional balancing limitation. on the ships it benefits most, there is still a damage ceiling they cant surpass that is shared by ships that dont need and cant use AtB because they have all the tac they could need already.
jack of all trades spread out station setup ships are not stronger then super specialized ship. they also tend to have a weakness in a stat thats important to their effectiveness. running an AtB build on these ships merely makes them competitive with actual specialized ships, without it there would be a much smaller number of viable ships to choose from in game.
borking a core balancing mechanic? is it borked when you run 2 copies of CRF on an escort? AtB does not bypass a single intentional balancing limitation. on the ships it benefits most, there is still a damage ceiling they cant surpass that is shared by ships that dont need and cant use AtB because they have all the tac they could need already.
jack of all trades spread out station setup ships are not stronger then super specialized ship. they also tend to have a weakness in a stat thats important to their effectiveness. running an AtB build on these ships merely makes them competitive with actual specialized ships, without it there would be a much smaller number of viable ships to choose from in game.
So your argument for 3 stacks of -10% tech doffs or 30% reduction in all cool downs.... is ship choice ?
Should they not properly balance the ships then... instead of allowing people to skirt the game mechanics.
I have no doubt that the guys that in fact built the core STO game that have all now moved on to other projects or other companies would be annoyed to see the tech doffs added to the game.
In general DOFFS have allowed us all a slight cheat on one of the games intended balance mechanics... IE Global Cool downs.
Most of the doffs... effect ONE cool down class... as in Damage Control effecting EPTx... Attack Pattern doffs... Team cool down doffs... defelector control doffs.
Thing is those doffs ALL effect one class of skills only... and to top it off most of them are Chance based.
I am ok with us all being allowed to cheat one Global on our ships.... basicly turning 1-2 copies of a system skill into 2... At least there is a limiting factor. (the number of doff slots being limited to 5)
The issue with Tech doffs... is they allow us to cheat ALL the games Global Cool downs that where added to ensure BALANCE... and to add insult, they are NOT chance based. They are 100% reliable... Seeing as the other cool down doffs are split up 50/50 between straight time removals and chance based.... it seems very odd that the most powerful cool down removal doff is not one of the chance variety.
This whole A2B build thing has been around since tech doffs exist. It just took the knowledge of its usefulness a while to spread. As soon as it became general knowledge, the nerf calls appeared even if not everyone understands how it works and possible counters.
Remember, when sci skills got nerfed, the bat hit hard and just very recently a bunch of bugs with GW/TR that made them weaker than intended were discovered. The nerf calls then were practically similar. "My escort can't handle x power". This game shouldn't cater to tac captains only. This mechanic should remain as-is or just have a slight adjustment to the tech doff benefit.
This whole A2B build thing has been around since tech doffs exist. It just took the knowledge of its usefulness a while to spread. As soon as it became general knowledge, the nerf calls appeared even if not everyone understands how it works and possible counters.
Remember, when sci skills got nerfed, the bat hit hard and just very recently a bunch of bugs with GW/TR that made them weaker than intended were discovered. The nerf calls then were practically similar. "My escort can't handle x power". This game shouldn't cater to tac captains only. This mechanic should remain as-is or just have a slight adjustment to the tech doff benefit.
No really it hasn't always been that way since the doff came out. It was chance based when it was 1st introduced. There were shared cooldowns between Aux2batt and EPtX. There were shared cooldowns between skills like HE and PH. It has grown. Keep in mind though, I'm not a fan of cooldown reduction abilities in general, since they've not made an effort to balance them after the original Dev left.
The only slight "counter" is the SS doff and that's frowned upon oddly. TSSA is too weak any more as are most Boff drain options. This wasn't nearly the issue it came to be when the doffs 1st came out.
The issue is not exclusive to Cruisers nor Tech doffs. It's just a strawman to make it about cruisers.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
This whole A2B build thing has been around since tech doffs exist.
Which would be nifty if the game were like it was back then...but uh, it's not.
It's not a knock at the devs nor the QA guys - they don't have the manpower with their schedule to deal with testing all the possible things that players might do...there's how many of them and how many of us?
And it's not just about AtB, it's not just about Cruisers...there's so many things out there.
So your argument for 3 stacks of -10% tech doffs or 30% reduction in all cool downs.... is ship choice ?
Should they not properly balance the ships then... instead of allowing people to skirt the game mechanics.
I have no doubt that the guys that in fact built the core STO game that have all now moved on to other projects or other companies would be annoyed to see the tech doffs added to the game.
In general DOFFS have allowed us all a slight cheat on one of the games intended balance mechanics... IE Global Cool downs.
Most of the doffs... effect ONE cool down class... as in Damage Control effecting EPTx... Attack Pattern doffs... Team cool down doffs... defelector control doffs.
Thing is those doffs ALL effect one class of skills only... and to top it off most of them are Chance based.
I am ok with us all being allowed to cheat one Global on our ships.... basicly turning 1-2 copies of a system skill into 2... At least there is a limiting factor. (the number of doff slots being limited to 5)
The issue with Tech doffs... is they allow us to cheat ALL the games Global Cool downs that where added to ensure BALANCE... and to add insult, they are NOT chance based. They are 100% reliable... Seeing as the other cool down doffs are split up 50/50 between straight time removals and chance based.... it seems very odd that the most powerful cool down removal doff is not one of the chance variety.
all doffs are an exploit :rolleyes: they effect things, and make them cool down faster or add different effects. remove doffs now! what they do offends me on principle, its a slap in the face to the original game! and i hate tech doffs the most because on paper they are the best doff! but i have not examined their how and on what, that doesn't mater its just their potential that makes them OP! /every tech doff hater
tech doffs are powerful, more powerful then other cooldown reducing doffs. but unlike other cooldown reducers, you CANT use tech doffs unless you have an abundance of mid level eng stations. and you have to use your 2 LT eng station to acquire their effect for the rest of your skills. the best, most specialized ships, have no need for them, and consequently, have 3 more active doff slots then every ship that needs 3 tech doffs to be competitive.
all doffs are an exploit :rolleyes: they effect things, and make them cool down faster or add different effects. remove doffs now! what they do offends me on principle, its a slap in the face to the original game! and i hate tech doffs the most because on paper they are the best doff! but i have not examined their how and on what, that doesn't mater its just their potential that makes them OP! /every tech doff hater
tech doffs are powerful, more powerful then other cooldown reducing doffs. but unlike other cooldown reducers, you CANT use tech doffs unless you have an abundance of mid level eng stations. and you have to use your 2 LT eng station to acquire their effect for the rest of your skills. the best, most specialized ships, have no need for them, and consequently, have 3 more active doff slots then every ship that needs 3 tech doffs to be competitive.
There only needs to be 1 lt eng station, though an additional ens eng is preferable in order to have 2x eptx abilities depending on the build. 2xAux2batt w/3 tech doffs is nice for builds where the build has boffs who's shared cooldown is 50% of global and has a short cooldown.
Otherwise, it depends on the build's boff powers to decide what to use. Some builds can get away w/less aux2batts and/or tech doffs depending on the boff abilities' cooldown.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Recently many players in PvP have been abusing the Auxiliary Power to Emergency Battery (Aux2bat and double tap, as it has been dubbed) ability and the Technician DOFF that reduces cooldown to bridge officer abilities.
Using 2 copies of Aux2bat and 3 purple quality Technician DOFFs players are able to reduce the cooldown on all bridge officer abilities by 10% for each Technician, and considering how many times you can activate Aux2bat in a 60 second time frame, you can lower your cooldowns by close to 80%.
If you combine this exploit with skills like Reverse Shield Polarity 3 (RSP) and a purple quality Fabrication Engineer DOFF that extends the duration of RSP by 8 seconds, making it last about 40 seconds. If you activate Aux2bat 3-4 times while RSP is active, this lowers the cooldown of RSP to 40 seconds, thus leaving only about 2-3 seconds where the player is vulnerable to incoming damage.
I have tested multiple things to counter the people that do this to no avail, I have used multiple subsystem targeting skills such as targeting aux power, but even with 0 aux power in the subsystem they are still able to activate Aux2bat and gain full advantage of its effets. Power syphon and Polaron procs have little effect due to the abnormally high amount of power that Aux2bat provides to the other subsystems.
Even Subnucleonic Beam doesn't disable them from using this ability because if only one copy of Aux2bat is on cooldown, activating the 2nd copy still reduces all of the cooldowns.
In conclusion, the Technician DOFF that allows the players to exploit this game breaking mechanic needs to be limited to how many of them can be equipped at one time, I would suggest limiting it to 1 or 2 copies of the DOFF, or making it so that the cooldown proc is reduced to only being able to go off once every 15 seconds or so.
Thank you for your time, I hope this issue can be resolved soon.
Some people buy Tier 6 ships and expect to win. Other people buy Tier 6 ships and are Tier 6 pilots.
~Tear
I am fine with the idea of doffs... what I am not fine with is the idea that specific doffs are required to make an entire ship class viable.
First I don't agree that tech doffs are the only thing making cruisers viable...
Second... if Cryptic really thinks adding tech doffs was a legit way to "save" the cruiser class.... well we all better just /uninstall now cause this game is now nothing but a RP wasteland with no hope for a PvP save.
As far as I or anyone else would consider a single copy of A2B with 3 technicians would most likely not be considered that powerful. I have seen some people use it like Iskandus to get abilities around a bit faster, it's nice and might be worth the 3 doffs and 1 Lt engineering ability.
To reduce all abilities to global, as many seem to think, you will need 2 Lt Engineering slots or 1 Lt.commander. Lt Commander is not desirable though as you give up a lot of survivability for the build. This will allow you to hit global on all abilities on your first 2 cycles.
However A2B can be activated every 10s when running back to back. Most cooldowns are in 15, 30, 45 and 60s time frames which do not match very well when cycling A2B back to back. For shorter cooldown skills you're looking at a very varying cooldown of 15-20s when used above and 1 copy of tactical team cannot be maintained with the same level of uptime 2 copies can.
FAW with it's 20s cooldown is ideal for A2B as it is always going to be on global or within a seconds or two. Omega and delta also good but not beta or your cannon, torp and mine abilities. Engineering and a lot of science abilities also have longer cooldowns so benefit the most, though science abilities you have to be careful what you use it for and when you use it.
The ideal ship to use A2B on has a Lt.commander or higher and ensign level tactical slots, 1 lt.commander engineering or higher and Lt engineering and no higher than a Lt science.
Weaknesses of the build:
Aux cycling limits healing availability VERY vulnerable to subnucs
SS doff
drains can have a weird effect depending on timing.
If they don't have 2xTT you have a window of up to 10s no TT
Limited on doffs. You can probably figure the doff layout in seconds for most people.
Really the crux of the build is the ability to run everything on global so they tend to only have 1 copy of anything and if that gets double subnuked off at the right time they're dead, no two ways about it. Even the SS doff will open up a huge window for murder.
Most also use beams and they're a lot harder to stop firing when they've begun, I dare say some of you FBP3 junkies could exploit that too.
So personally I would say there's plenty of downsides to exploit, some can be avoiding and shored up a bit with certain things but on the whole a steady burn on the hull will really hit them hard as they can't just heal it back up. On escorts, destroyers and tvaros, just do the same as you would normally, A2B does not boost them as much as cruisers in my experience as they would have used that Lt.com for tactical abilities anyway, the most they get is RSP or DEM on global.
Yes, I know double tap with DEM on global and doff but it's getting nerfed.
Comments
I think he used a little humor to poke a little fun at people calling double loading tac buffs an exploit.
Pahaha you shot the poor lad down in the prime of his posting career
ah okay, i also wondered and i found it a bit suspective why you of all people thought that aux2batt would be op atm ^^
personally i am not interested in a nerf, it should be rather buffed lol
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
Okay, that's my ugly for the day.
Have fun kill bad guys.
It already does to some =P
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
[Console - Universal - Auxiliary to Battery Technician Group]
[Console - Universal - Marion Anti-Drain Doohickeymabob]
2pc set bonus...
- applies CD reduction/drain resistance in a 5km diameter
- applies CD reduction to consoles as well
lol, where do I get these?? FTW?
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Mostly because it can pretty much double the amount of boff skills available, effectively. Thereby borking (either of) two core balancing mechanisms in this game: cooldowns and/or the limiting of boff slots available to a ship. I think.
Though the maxed out power levels are a nice touch in their own right.
Something doesn't have to be free of downsides to be OP; the good stuff just needs to outweigh the bad stuff by a large margin. Being able to activate those neutered heals way more often kind of makes up for the amount they heal.
Damage not taken is damage you don't have to heal...negative consequences that are removed are no longer negative consequences.
AtB's not a Cruiser/Battle Cruiser only thing though...
The Chimera's an evul mythological critter. You shouldn't fly it.
borking a core balancing mechanic? is it borked when you run 2 copies of CRF on an escort? AtB does not bypass a single intentional balancing limitation. on the ships it benefits most, there is still a damage ceiling they cant surpass that is shared by ships that dont need and cant use AtB because they have all the tac they could need already.
jack of all trades spread out station setup ships are not stronger then super specialized ship. they also tend to have a weakness in a stat thats important to their effectiveness. running an AtB build on these ships merely makes them competitive with actual specialized ships, without it there would be a much smaller number of viable ships to choose from in game.
So your argument for 3 stacks of -10% tech doffs or 30% reduction in all cool downs.... is ship choice ?
Should they not properly balance the ships then... instead of allowing people to skirt the game mechanics.
I have no doubt that the guys that in fact built the core STO game that have all now moved on to other projects or other companies would be annoyed to see the tech doffs added to the game.
In general DOFFS have allowed us all a slight cheat on one of the games intended balance mechanics... IE Global Cool downs.
Most of the doffs... effect ONE cool down class... as in Damage Control effecting EPTx... Attack Pattern doffs... Team cool down doffs... defelector control doffs.
Thing is those doffs ALL effect one class of skills only... and to top it off most of them are Chance based.
I am ok with us all being allowed to cheat one Global on our ships.... basicly turning 1-2 copies of a system skill into 2... At least there is a limiting factor. (the number of doff slots being limited to 5)
The issue with Tech doffs... is they allow us to cheat ALL the games Global Cool downs that where added to ensure BALANCE... and to add insult, they are NOT chance based. They are 100% reliable... Seeing as the other cool down doffs are split up 50/50 between straight time removals and chance based.... it seems very odd that the most powerful cool down removal doff is not one of the chance variety.
Remember, when sci skills got nerfed, the bat hit hard and just very recently a bunch of bugs with GW/TR that made them weaker than intended were discovered. The nerf calls then were practically similar. "My escort can't handle x power". This game shouldn't cater to tac captains only. This mechanic should remain as-is or just have a slight adjustment to the tech doff benefit.
No really it hasn't always been that way since the doff came out. It was chance based when it was 1st introduced. There were shared cooldowns between Aux2batt and EPtX. There were shared cooldowns between skills like HE and PH. It has grown. Keep in mind though, I'm not a fan of cooldown reduction abilities in general, since they've not made an effort to balance them after the original Dev left.
The only slight "counter" is the SS doff and that's frowned upon oddly. TSSA is too weak any more as are most Boff drain options. This wasn't nearly the issue it came to be when the doffs 1st came out.
The issue is not exclusive to Cruisers nor Tech doffs. It's just a strawman to make it about cruisers.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Which would be nifty if the game were like it was back then...but uh, it's not.
It's not a knock at the devs nor the QA guys - they don't have the manpower with their schedule to deal with testing all the possible things that players might do...there's how many of them and how many of us?
And it's not just about AtB, it's not just about Cruisers...there's so many things out there.
all doffs are an exploit :rolleyes: they effect things, and make them cool down faster or add different effects. remove doffs now! what they do offends me on principle, its a slap in the face to the original game! and i hate tech doffs the most because on paper they are the best doff! but i have not examined their how and on what, that doesn't mater its just their potential that makes them OP!
/every tech doff hater
tech doffs are powerful, more powerful then other cooldown reducing doffs. but unlike other cooldown reducers, you CANT use tech doffs unless you have an abundance of mid level eng stations. and you have to use your 2 LT eng station to acquire their effect for the rest of your skills. the best, most specialized ships, have no need for them, and consequently, have 3 more active doff slots then every ship that needs 3 tech doffs to be competitive.
There only needs to be 1 lt eng station, though an additional ens eng is preferable in order to have 2x eptx abilities depending on the build. 2xAux2batt w/3 tech doffs is nice for builds where the build has boffs who's shared cooldown is 50% of global and has a short cooldown.
Otherwise, it depends on the build's boff powers to decide what to use. Some builds can get away w/less aux2batts and/or tech doffs depending on the boff abilities' cooldown.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Using 2 copies of Aux2bat and 3 purple quality Technician DOFFs players are able to reduce the cooldown on all bridge officer abilities by 10% for each Technician, and considering how many times you can activate Aux2bat in a 60 second time frame, you can lower your cooldowns by close to 80%.
If you combine this exploit with skills like Reverse Shield Polarity 3 (RSP) and a purple quality Fabrication Engineer DOFF that extends the duration of RSP by 8 seconds, making it last about 40 seconds. If you activate Aux2bat 3-4 times while RSP is active, this lowers the cooldown of RSP to 40 seconds, thus leaving only about 2-3 seconds where the player is vulnerable to incoming damage.
I have tested multiple things to counter the people that do this to no avail, I have used multiple subsystem targeting skills such as targeting aux power, but even with 0 aux power in the subsystem they are still able to activate Aux2bat and gain full advantage of its effets. Power syphon and Polaron procs have little effect due to the abnormally high amount of power that Aux2bat provides to the other subsystems.
Even Subnucleonic Beam doesn't disable them from using this ability because if only one copy of Aux2bat is on cooldown, activating the 2nd copy still reduces all of the cooldowns.
In conclusion, the Technician DOFF that allows the players to exploit this game breaking mechanic needs to be limited to how many of them can be equipped at one time, I would suggest limiting it to 1 or 2 copies of the DOFF, or making it so that the cooldown proc is reduced to only being able to go off once every 15 seconds or so.
Thank you for your time, I hope this issue can be resolved soon.
~Tear
First I don't agree that tech doffs are the only thing making cruisers viable...
Second... if Cryptic really thinks adding tech doffs was a legit way to "save" the cruiser class.... well we all better just /uninstall now cause this game is now nothing but a RP wasteland with no hope for a PvP save.
To reduce all abilities to global, as many seem to think, you will need 2 Lt Engineering slots or 1 Lt.commander. Lt Commander is not desirable though as you give up a lot of survivability for the build. This will allow you to hit global on all abilities on your first 2 cycles.
However A2B can be activated every 10s when running back to back. Most cooldowns are in 15, 30, 45 and 60s time frames which do not match very well when cycling A2B back to back. For shorter cooldown skills you're looking at a very varying cooldown of 15-20s when used above and 1 copy of tactical team cannot be maintained with the same level of uptime 2 copies can.
FAW with it's 20s cooldown is ideal for A2B as it is always going to be on global or within a seconds or two. Omega and delta also good but not beta or your cannon, torp and mine abilities. Engineering and a lot of science abilities also have longer cooldowns so benefit the most, though science abilities you have to be careful what you use it for and when you use it.
The ideal ship to use A2B on has a Lt.commander or higher and ensign level tactical slots, 1 lt.commander engineering or higher and Lt engineering and no higher than a Lt science.
Weaknesses of the build:
Aux cycling limits healing availability
VERY vulnerable to subnucs
SS doff
drains can have a weird effect depending on timing.
If they don't have 2xTT you have a window of up to 10s no TT
Limited on doffs. You can probably figure the doff layout in seconds for most people.
Really the crux of the build is the ability to run everything on global so they tend to only have 1 copy of anything and if that gets double subnuked off at the right time they're dead, no two ways about it. Even the SS doff will open up a huge window for murder.
Most also use beams and they're a lot harder to stop firing when they've begun, I dare say some of you FBP3 junkies could exploit that too.
So personally I would say there's plenty of downsides to exploit, some can be avoiding and shored up a bit with certain things but on the whole a steady burn on the hull will really hit them hard as they can't just heal it back up. On escorts, destroyers and tvaros, just do the same as you would normally, A2B does not boost them as much as cruisers in my experience as they would have used that Lt.com for tactical abilities anyway, the most they get is RSP or DEM on global.
Yes, I know double tap with DEM on global and doff but it's getting nerfed.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.