Aux2bat is fine as is right now. Is the most realible way of take out some DPS of a crusier.
And not everyone is running aux2bat, is pretty useless for escorts and sci ships. Most of the escorts have all the tactical boffs slots that they need, and sci ships needs sci power.
Aux2bat is usefull in pvp only for eng/tact crusiers.
About PvE, who cares, i don't see the borg complaining here that they are getting stomped by aux2bat builds.
it really is that simple. AtB does not make an escort spike harder, they couldn't even run it if it would anyway. doesn't make a heal boat heal harder, and they couldn't even run it if it would anyway. and it doesn't make control boats control harder and they couldnt even run it if it would anyway.
it empowers tweener ships, it lets you use a ship in a way it wasn't intended and makes some TRIBBLE ships usable.
hating on it is the same as hating on EPt skill up time simply on principle, it requires sever ignorance or dismissing the entire reality of the meta game.
pve'ers copy builds from your ship builds topic so you'd only have to "fix" the nerfed a2b builds and they would be fine.Its not like they kill their brain to invent what's already discovered ...if they'd do that they'd play pvp :rolleyes:
most of those ships builds in my thread would suck without AtB. there is no alternative near as effective i could tell people to run. in the mean time all the non AtB ships are not nerfed, and the gap between the already good ships and those that needed AtB to compete grows, exponentially.
I knew this would happen, they get a win with BO Double Tap and now they start going after other stuff. I said no to BO double tap (plenty of counters, not an instant kill and takes some skill), I will say no to Aux2Batt nerf since its the only way to make cruisers really competitive with escorts. I bet you if torps were really effective in PvP people would be itching about the death blossom (torp spread stack with torp point defense system). People are just annoyed at anything that takes some resources to set up (that they don't have) and than the effort is reward with an effective result. I'm cheesed about the most effective weapon in the game, disruptors, getting a 2 piece set dmg buff, I under stand the need for plasma since everything has plasma resistance, but disruptor, really? That is like giving AP a 2 piece set dmg buff, that would be just stupid.
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
most of those ships builds in my thread would suck without AtB. there is no alternative near as effective i could tell people to run. in the mean time all the non AtB ships are not nerfed, and the gap between the already good ships and those that needed AtB to compete grows, exponentially.
"nerfing" a2b as to force use PO1 for the same result wont be a big difference overall ...ok some cruisers with lt sci station that would not be cool but maybe that would make people play a cruiser like a cruiser not a escort.Everyone wants escort like dps and turn rate but with cruiser look .Pretty sure they can even remove a2b doff and add cruisers holoemitters ...people would use the on escorts and everyone would be happy.
I they ever nerf AtB they need to add more boff stations to cruisers. The extra power is neat but getting power is easy, its the doubling of your stations that makes it powerful.
Really though...cruisers are the biggest ships with the largest crews, why do they have the same boff stations as escorts?
"nerfing" a2b as to force use PO1 for the same result wont be a big difference overall ...ok some cruisers with lt sci station that would not be cool but maybe that would make people play a cruiser like a cruiser not a escort.Everyone wants escort like dps and turn rate but with cruiser look .Pretty sure they can even remove a2b doff and add cruisers holoemitters ...people would use the on escorts and everyone would be happy.
i dont think you understand just how awful PO is. when it's duration ends, cooldowns revert back to normal. half the skills cool down's last longer then the duration of PO, so it would never benefit those skills.
AtB is ducktap fixing the game in a way a very large amount of players would like it to be, without removing the intended functionality. its really the best solution to wants and intents, all coexisting, there is. messing with it would be the worst thing they could do
i dont think you understand just how awful PO is. when it's duration ends, cooldowns revert back to normal. half the skills cool down's last longer then the duration of PO, so it would never benefit those skills.
AtB is ducktap fixing the game in a way a very large amount of players would like it to be, without removing the intended functionality. its really the best solution to wants and intents, all coexisting, there is. messing with it would be the worst thing they could do
LOL, a build that undermines a T4 rep power completely? A build that I only use when flying a cruiser (that I'm thinking of abandoning for 125/125 weapon/aux power?)
Aux2batt is common, but it sure as hell is not required, not when healers and sci ships get little out of it and there are more and more options competing for Aux power.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
They spent 1/2 of last year doing nothing but buffing cooldown reducing abilities by not only introducing them, but they also got rid of a lot of shared cooldowns. Sadly, the writing was on the wall when the original Doff Dev left. He'd actually nerf things (like Maint Doff effectiving all 3 team abilities).
As a side note there are viable single aux2batt builds, they work well w/Sci abilities and can be run on the Rommy Sci ship and Brel (I know b/c I've flown them). These often get overlooked as it's assumed dual aux2batt builds are needed to take advantage of the tech doff powers. Far too much of a Cruiser perspective in this debate imo.
Maybe it's not key bindable and people can be bothered to select power presets, but in particular w/single aux2batt builds low aux power on repairs shouldn't be an issue.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
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C&H Fed banter
and why would cruisers should have more stations? I don't think 300 pilots are needed to pilot the same thing.
count how many stations were on defiant in DS9 and count how many "boffs" were in TNG Enterprise.
stations, those arent really bridge stations so much as a representation of what the ship is capable of doing, by whats built into it and its size and equipment and all that. basically everything that would make a bigger ship better then a smaller ship, stations and consoles are a representation of that. but for balance, every ship type has the same number of things. problem is not all things are created equal, infant what the small ship, escorts and sci ships, have an abundance of is worth more then what the big ships have an abundance of. its not just backward, its double backward.
the larger a ship is, and the worse its movement stats are, the more raw station powers it should have, because theres no advantage to being huge and slow, and every advantage to being small and maneuverable in game. AtB proliferation is a self correction to this issue
But it's not. Well, for some it is. For some it is not. That's an issue. If it were "fine" for everybody, then it would be fine.
Nothing will ever be fine for everyone :P but
I find using and a2b build even with green technicians is a benefit damage wise since it helps to counteract the drain from beam arrays and let me do some focused damage as long as I'm not running a BFAW build.
Current build on "Lakari" Federation Klingon Engineer LVL 26
Space trait: EPS Manifold, Batteries skill maxed for 19.9 sec battery duration
Doffs: all greens - WCE {power boost variant}, 3x Technicians, Shld Distro.
T3 Support cruiser
TT-1,TS-2 EPtS-1, A2B-1, DEM-2 EPtE-1, A2B-1 HE-1
Fore 2x Phaser Beam array Mk V [Acc] [Dmg]x2
1x Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk V [Acc] [Dmg]x2
Aft 2x Phaser Beam array Mk V [Acc] [Dmg]x2
1x Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk V [Acc] [Dmg]x2
Devices
Aux bat, Wpn bat, SFM, RMC
ENG
Transwarp computer for WCE bonus
Impulse Capacitance cell
Victorium Alloy Mk VI
SCI
Plasmotic Leach
TAC
Isometric charge
Overcharged Warp core Mk VI [Eff] also for WCE bonus
Kinda a fun ship to fly with this build though the WCE bonus might be wasted on everything but aux due to the A2B power levels but still testing it.
stations, those arent really bridge stations so much as a representation of what the ship is capable of doing, by whats built into it and its size and equipment and all that. basically everything that would make a bigger ship better then a smaller ship, stations and consoles are a representation of that. but for balance, every ship type has the same number of things. problem is not all things are created equal, infant what the small ship, escorts and sci ships, have an abundance of is worth more then what the big ships have an abundance of. its not just backward, its double backward.
the larger a ship is, and the worse its movement stats are, the more raw station powers it should have, because theres no advantage to being huge and slow, and every advantage to being small and maneuverable in game. AtB proliferation is a self correction to this issue
then give cruisers 10^100 boff station and then wonder why people fly the same ship.
cruisers should be tanky/healers.Who wants dps from them should play a escort with cruiser holoemitter.Who wants a role for tanky ships should ask the devs for more maps and things to do in pvp ...give people a reason to fly hard to kill ships.
I think I said once in opvp : I want to see a no win like map where 1 team has to destroy the other group's cruiser.In no win you protect a freighter in the pvp version you'd have to protect the cruiser.That would give value to cruisers.
btw in star trek cruisers were not war ships ...they were sent in the dominion battle but they were to cruise around and explore :rolleyes:
So instead of having the standard 12 skills.... you in fact have 23.
Yep no idea why people would be calling that over powered. lmao
Lets all be honest with ourselves The Tech doffs doing 10% each is way op. Pushing aux to bat once with 3 doffs should improve cool downs but not bring things down to global which is what it does now.
For the people running 2 copies of aux to bat they are wasting there build... one copy with 3 doffs is what 2s off of hitting globals.
Tech doffs should be more around 5% each at purple... or they should simply not stack. (Or how about a crazy idea... what about a new class for doffs that only allows a max stack of 2)
For people claiming it takes skill to fly an aux to bat build... don't make me laugh. I have done the aux to bat thing... and my aux to bat nebula was most likely the first Aux to Bat build that did some dmg in some higher end pvp. I think we can all agree at this point its really not complicated to pull of the build with all the +power stuff we have now. At this point with the warp cores and changes to the EPTx... aux to bat is likely the most mindless game play setup there is in game right now.
Why would you only use 1 aux2bat? Seems like a total waste
For abilities where the cooldown is so long you only need 1, eg DEM/RSP, or abilities, like many Sci, where the % difference is ~25% and have long shared cooldowns (eg 30-45 seconds). Many of those have ~minute cooldowns w/long shared and equiping Boff Ability3 and 2 would butt heads w/each other.
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Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
A2B is nice on some ships, with certain boff layouts, but not good for all situations. It's seriously overrated, evidence of this is everywhere. Many people suffer from the a2b everything syndrome and use it on ships that are better off without it that are already tac heavy enough, and are just draining their aux for little benefit.
A2b isn't the be all end all of cruiser dps either. I made a non a2b cruiser build that can parse 20k+ dps using beam FAW, both the bortasqu or oddy has enough tac by using both universals as tac to do this without a2b.
So instead of having the standard 12 skills.... you in fact have 23.
Yep no idea why people would be calling that over powered. lmao
lol, so AtB lets you use use 23 different station powers on your ship? oh wait, it doesn't do anything close to that at all. your thinking of voldemort, not AtB.
Before LoR, three guys I ran it on (well, S7 rerolls - the guys before that worked the same as well) all ran it the same. After LoR, all three were different. After replacing the BOFFs on one of the guys, I had two running the same as they did before LoR...leaving me with just the one odd guy out. Well, TRIBBLE...so now two of the guys are the same...but not working as they did. It's always fun. Meh...but anyway...
Here's an issue though...that all guys experienced since I started dorking around with it last year.
125/100 88/60 50/25 54/15
1st AtB
125/100 109/60 72/25 4/15
2nd AtB
125/100 90/60 52/25 49/15
That 2nd AtB is activated as the triggered CD expires and the 1st AtB wears off. There's about a 1s delay (0.5s activation), which means the 2nd AtB is triggered while Aux is ~9/15.
Repeat it again (from scratch)...
125/100 109/60 72/25 4/15
2nd AtB
125/100 88/60 50/25 54/15
Again, the same 1s or so delay...this time with Aux at ~10/15.
So with the ~9 version, rather than dropping Aux back down to 4 (should be 5) - it added back the starting Aux -5. With the ~10 version, it didn't even -5.
You hit a single AtB, it drops to 4 (should be 5)...for 10s. After that 10s, the power is drained that was added and Aux returns to normal.
In hitting that second AtB, sometimes it subtracts 5 (should drop to 5) as it returns the Aux. Sometimes, it just returns the Aux. With the first case, the second AtB is triggering the CD reduction while adding +2 Power. With the second case, the second AtB is triggered the CD without adding power.
There are some curious tricks that you can pull off as well.
Say I take the 4/15 to a x/25? Then it's 14/25. That's fine. Quickly switch back to x/15, then for ~2s it goes to 0/15 before returning to 4/15. That shuffling to offset the penalty might be something that one could consider for tweaking, eh? Since it's allowing you to offset the penalty from the AtB.
But let's complicate it some. The guy's an Eng with the EPS Manifold Trait. Let's pop EPtW1 (won't have to track the change for Weapons) and add that +10 to each subsystem.
125/100 98/60 60/25 64/15
EPS Manifold lasts 18.4s for my guy. So what happens if we hit a single AtB right after the EPtW1?
125/100 124/60 86/25 4/15
Again, Manifold lasts 18.4s for my guys - so that's long enough to trigger the 2nd AtB while it's still active. And we get...
125/100 98/60 60/25 64/15
...for the seconds remaining on Manifold, until it goes to...
125/100 88/60 50/25 54/15
Again, we're not seeing either Shield/Engine gain nor Aux drain on the 2nd AtB...just the CD reduction.
How about a quick look at something, just looking at the Aux?
Add in some Leech, Siphon, MACO shields...and...all sorts of oddities creep up.
This guy that I just did these test? Before switching out his BOFFs (replaced all of them with Naus), AtB#1 took him to 12-14 instead of 4. As you bounce around with too much power from various boosts, you'll run the risk of 0 Aux. Where that would happen for two of the guys, this guy would go to 5 Aux instead. He hits 0 Aux again since I changed the BOFFs.
With some of the things that can take place, can even boost Aux higher with the use of AtB because of how inconsistent the math is - as if it can't handle the speed of calculations or perhaps there's some order of precedence that gets dorked.
So...correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how AtB is supposed to work:
Regardless of Aux, using AtB drops Aux to 5.
You can increase that Aux through a variety of methods (shuffling power, EPtA, Manifold, Leech, Aux Batt, MACO Shields, Siphon, etc).
If a +Power Buff wears off during the 10s AtB is active, you risk 0 Aux.
Straightforward, eh? So yeah...that's my thing, make it work like it should - if that's how it should work - for everybody and each use of AtB. Remove the inconsistencies...then see if it needs any tweaks.
So instead of having the standard 12 skills.... you in fact have 23.
Yep no idea why people would be calling that over powered. lmao
And yet, that's what it takes to make cruisers competitive in PvE and they STILL lag behind in PvP. The type of change that would be needed to make a2b unneeded is a change that we KNOW Cryptic would never implement. They'd rather spend resources building up their next cash cow and drawing in their next crop of churn players. A2B is not a perfect solution by any means, but at least it provides an option to a class of ships that is beloved by a lot of players.
lol, so AtB lets you use use 23 different station powers on your ship? oh wait, it doesn't do anything close to that at all. your thinking of voldemort, not AtB.
2 Copies of Dem 3
2 Copies of Faw 3
2 Copies of Beta 1 (OR... 2 copies of Omega 1 + 2 copies of Faw 2)
2 Copies of Tac team
2 EPTS 2
2 EPTE 1
2 RSP 2
2 Hazards 2
2 TSS 1
2 Copies of Engi Team (yes global with tac team... still with aux to bat its like having 2 of both teams)
Indeed.... I don't see the value of that at all.
Yes there are other doffs that could allow you to double up on Attack patterns....
And doffs that allow you a CHANCE to have your ship run like it has 4 EPTx...
And there are doffs that allow you to run One copy of Tac team like you had 2.
RSP... ya no doffs that give you 2 copies for the price of one.
What do you have to trade to get that.... your aux power for 10s... but wait it pushes your wepaons shields and engines to 125 for those 10s as well.... I know I feel really squishy in my cruisers when my sheild power is nailed at 130.
People can argue that this is the only thing making cruisers viable all they like... people argued that being able to spike in escorts was all that made them viable as well.
Bottom line is Tech doffs take the place of Attack Pattern / Dmg Control / Tac Team con officers / Engi or Sci team doffs / Energy Weapons doffs... ect ect... and they do it with OUT the RNG roll. Most of the doffs you can replace with tech doffs rely on % mechanics.
Perhaps Aux to Bat needs an RNG... 40% chance to reduce all boff powers by 10%.... that would be about right.
And yet, that's what it takes to make cruisers competitive in PvE
Folks would run 4x EPtX builds with AP and Beam DOFFs instead of DCEs or Techs...giving them their faster FAW and APBs...without risking any Aux loss, not having to give up access to AtS, etc, etc, etc. Back during the LoR beta when Cryptic was talking about the EPtX changes - lol, there were all sorts of arguments between the AtB guys, DCE guys, and Dragon guys...
And yet, that's what it takes to make cruisers competitive in PvE and they STILL lag behind in PvP.
This, just this.
Cruisers were badly implemented from the get go. The only way to make them truly effective is a total overhaul of the entirety of the game.
Weapon drain, beam array dps, tac stations, dhc dps, shields (don't even get me started on the mogai having as much shields as a fed cruiser), hull, engineer powers, turnrate. The DPS overhaul would in turn mean an NPC HP overhaul. Everything would need to be adjusted.
A2B goes some way of making a Fed DPS cruiser competitive, but the fact you have to jump through so many loops to make it work just highlights how atrocious they are.
Meanwhile an escort zips around laughing as it vapes dreadnoughts in seconds, not needing doffs or specialised setups to make it effective.
Add in some Leech, Siphon, MACO shields...and...all sorts of oddities creep up.
This guy that I just did these test? Before switching out his BOFFs (replaced all of them with Naus), AtB#1 took him to 12-14 instead of 4. As you bounce around with too much power from various boosts, you'll run the risk of 0 Aux. Where that would happen for two of the guys, this guy would go to 5 Aux instead. He hits 0 Aux again since I changed the BOFFs.
With some of the things that can take place, can even boost Aux higher with the use of AtB because of how inconsistent the math is - as if it can't handle the speed of calculations or perhaps there's some order of precedence that gets dorked.
So...correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how AtB is supposed to work:
Regardless of Aux, using AtB drops Aux to 5.
You can increase that Aux through a variety of methods (shuffling power, EPtA, Manifold, Leech, Aux Batt, MACO Shields, Siphon, etc).
If a +Power Buff wears off during the 10s AtB is active, you risk 0 Aux.
Straightforward, eh? So yeah...that's my thing, make it work like it should - if that's how it should work - for everybody and each use of AtB. Remove the inconsistencies...then see if it needs any tweaks.
I kinda figured you were referencing Redricky's thread.
Question was there any Lag in zone when you were testing?
that might account for the timing being off when triggering the 2nd a2b?
were you firing at anyone where plasmotic leach would have triggered?
or being fired at and the MACO Proc triggered? or was this in an empty instance?
Not sure that everything we have in-game currently was tested for how it would interact with everything else without causing some of the weird things that happen. I'm all for a general bug fix patch or season as long as it doesn't break anything else unintentionally as seems to happen far too often.
I know I was all over the map rubber banding last nite including Otha ground map where it was just me and the borg - fire weapon freeze for 5-20secs later it either fired, I disconnected or was bounced halfway across the map to the start area, today no issues with lag at all which is the norm.
Cruisers were badly implemented from the get go. The only way to make them truly effective is a total overhaul of the entirety of the game.
Weapon drain, beam array dps, tac stations, dhc dps, shields (don't even get me started on the mogai having as much shields as a fed cruiser), hull, engineer powers, turnrate. The DPS overhaul would in turn mean an NPC HP overhaul. Everything would need to be adjusted.
A2B goes some way of making a Fed DPS cruiser competitive, but the fact you have to jump through so many loops to make it work just highlights how atrocious they are.
Meanwhile an escort zips around laughing as it vapes dreadnoughts in seconds, not needing doffs or specialised setups to make it effective.
Cruisers ruled the roost for a long time or are you forgetting FaW ball?
Fed Cruisers put out less damage than KDF Cruisers that was by design. But, they still did enough dps to kill and Escort were frowned upon b/c they could actually die. There's never been an easier time to over cap weapon's power, please leave the drain crutch somewhere else.
Leave PvE out of this, if anything Sci ships are "weak" in PvE. But, even they can do enough to get the job done.
Escorts avoid and apply damage. They'd be weaker w/o cooldown reduction doffs like those for aux2batt/AP and EPtX cycles that weren't chainable.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Cruisers ruled the roost for a long time or are you forgetting FaW ball?
Nope, I can't remember that, nor do I remember cruisers ever ruling the roost (and if so it certainly wasn't for a long time). I remember whines about cruisers being unkillable leading to a nerf to shield based abilities. However they've never really been a threat.
Folks would run 4x EPtX builds with AP and Beam DOFFs instead of DCEs or Techs...giving them their faster FAW and APBs...without risking any Aux loss, not having to give up access to AtS, etc, etc, etc.
I'd be up for that 100% totally... IF the devs a) vastly increased the amount recharge reduction for the AP doffs and b) flooded STO with them so as to drive down the ridiculous prices.
Comments
people have problems with things they dont understand all the time. that does not make their concerns valid, quite the opposite.
it really is that simple. AtB does not make an escort spike harder, they couldn't even run it if it would anyway. doesn't make a heal boat heal harder, and they couldn't even run it if it would anyway. and it doesn't make control boats control harder and they couldnt even run it if it would anyway.
it empowers tweener ships, it lets you use a ship in a way it wasn't intended and makes some TRIBBLE ships usable.
hating on it is the same as hating on EPt skill up time simply on principle, it requires sever ignorance or dismissing the entire reality of the meta game.
most of those ships builds in my thread would suck without AtB. there is no alternative near as effective i could tell people to run. in the mean time all the non AtB ships are not nerfed, and the gap between the already good ships and those that needed AtB to compete grows, exponentially.
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Yep, and I feel bad for them...point?
"nerfing" a2b as to force use PO1 for the same result wont be a big difference overall ...ok some cruisers with lt sci station that would not be cool but maybe that would make people play a cruiser like a cruiser not a escort.Everyone wants escort like dps and turn rate but with cruiser look .Pretty sure they can even remove a2b doff and add cruisers holoemitters ...people would use the on escorts and everyone would be happy.
Really though...cruisers are the biggest ships with the largest crews, why do they have the same boff stations as escorts?
i dont think you understand just how awful PO is. when it's duration ends, cooldowns revert back to normal. half the skills cool down's last longer then the duration of PO, so it would never benefit those skills.
AtB is ducktap fixing the game in a way a very large amount of players would like it to be, without removing the intended functionality. its really the best solution to wants and intents, all coexisting, there is. messing with it would be the worst thing they could do
and why would cruisers should have more stations? I don't think 300 pilots are needed to pilot the same thing.
count how many stations were on defiant in DS9 and count how many "boffs" were in TNG Enterprise.
nerf a2b and buff po
The bridge of the Defiant:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:EarlyDefiantBridge.jpg
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Defiant_Bridge.jpg
A pic of the bridge of the Enterprise-E:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sovereign_class?file=Sovereign_Bridge2.jpg
Our current BOFF layouts are too small even for the Defiant. Yep, the Cruisers should be above and beyond that...
Aux2batt is common, but it sure as hell is not required, not when healers and sci ships get little out of it and there are more and more options competing for Aux power.
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As a side note there are viable single aux2batt builds, they work well w/Sci abilities and can be run on the Rommy Sci ship and Brel (I know b/c I've flown them). These often get overlooked as it's assumed dual aux2batt builds are needed to take advantage of the tech doff powers. Far too much of a Cruiser perspective in this debate imo.
Maybe it's not key bindable and people can be bothered to select power presets, but in particular w/single aux2batt builds low aux power on repairs shouldn't be an issue.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
stations, those arent really bridge stations so much as a representation of what the ship is capable of doing, by whats built into it and its size and equipment and all that. basically everything that would make a bigger ship better then a smaller ship, stations and consoles are a representation of that. but for balance, every ship type has the same number of things. problem is not all things are created equal, infant what the small ship, escorts and sci ships, have an abundance of is worth more then what the big ships have an abundance of. its not just backward, its double backward.
the larger a ship is, and the worse its movement stats are, the more raw station powers it should have, because theres no advantage to being huge and slow, and every advantage to being small and maneuverable in game. AtB proliferation is a self correction to this issue
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Nothing will ever be fine for everyone :P but
I find using and a2b build even with green technicians is a benefit damage wise since it helps to counteract the drain from beam arrays and let me do some focused damage as long as I'm not running a BFAW build.
Current build on "Lakari" Federation Klingon Engineer LVL 26
Space trait: EPS Manifold, Batteries skill maxed for 19.9 sec battery duration
Doffs: all greens - WCE {power boost variant}, 3x Technicians, Shld Distro.
T3 Support cruiser
TT-1,TS-2
EPtS-1, A2B-1, DEM-2
EPtE-1, A2B-1
HE-1
Fore
2x Phaser Beam array Mk V [Acc] [Dmg]x2
1x Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk V [Acc] [Dmg]x2
Aft
2x Phaser Beam array Mk V [Acc] [Dmg]x2
1x Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk V [Acc] [Dmg]x2
Devices
Aux bat, Wpn bat, SFM, RMC
ENG
Transwarp computer for WCE bonus
Impulse Capacitance cell
Victorium Alloy Mk VI
SCI
Plasmotic Leach
TAC
Isometric charge
Overcharged Warp core Mk VI [Eff] also for WCE bonus
Kinda a fun ship to fly with this build though the WCE bonus might be wasted on everything but aux due to the A2B power levels but still testing it.
then give cruisers 10^100 boff station and then wonder why people fly the same ship.
cruisers should be tanky/healers.Who wants dps from them should play a escort with cruiser holoemitter.Who wants a role for tanky ships should ask the devs for more maps and things to do in pvp ...give people a reason to fly hard to kill ships.
I think I said once in opvp : I want to see a no win like map where 1 team has to destroy the other group's cruiser.In no win you protect a freighter in the pvp version you'd have to protect the cruiser.That would give value to cruisers.
btw in star trek cruisers were not war ships ...they were sent in the dominion battle but they were to cruise around and explore :rolleyes:
2 Commander skills.
4 Lt Commander skills
7 LT Skills
10 Ensign skills
So instead of having the standard 12 skills.... you in fact have 23.
Yep no idea why people would be calling that over powered. lmao
Lets all be honest with ourselves The Tech doffs doing 10% each is way op. Pushing aux to bat once with 3 doffs should improve cool downs but not bring things down to global which is what it does now.
For the people running 2 copies of aux to bat they are wasting there build... one copy with 3 doffs is what 2s off of hitting globals.
Tech doffs should be more around 5% each at purple... or they should simply not stack. (Or how about a crazy idea... what about a new class for doffs that only allows a max stack of 2)
For people claiming it takes skill to fly an aux to bat build... don't make me laugh. I have done the aux to bat thing... and my aux to bat nebula was most likely the first Aux to Bat build that did some dmg in some higher end pvp. I think we can all agree at this point its really not complicated to pull of the build with all the +power stuff we have now. At this point with the warp cores and changes to the EPTx... aux to bat is likely the most mindless game play setup there is in game right now.
For abilities where the cooldown is so long you only need 1, eg DEM/RSP, or abilities, like many Sci, where the % difference is ~25% and have long shared cooldowns (eg 30-45 seconds). Many of those have ~minute cooldowns w/long shared and equiping Boff Ability3 and 2 would butt heads w/each other.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
A2b isn't the be all end all of cruiser dps either. I made a non a2b cruiser build that can parse 20k+ dps using beam FAW, both the bortasqu or oddy has enough tac by using both universals as tac to do this without a2b.
lol, so AtB lets you use use 23 different station powers on your ship? oh wait, it doesn't do anything close to that at all. your thinking of voldemort, not AtB.
Meant working as intended...as it is for most...etc, etc, etc. As detailed in this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=547581
Before LoR, three guys I ran it on (well, S7 rerolls - the guys before that worked the same as well) all ran it the same. After LoR, all three were different. After replacing the BOFFs on one of the guys, I had two running the same as they did before LoR...leaving me with just the one odd guy out. Well, TRIBBLE...so now two of the guys are the same...but not working as they did. It's always fun. Meh...but anyway...
Here's an issue though...that all guys experienced since I started dorking around with it last year.
125/100
88/60
50/25
54/15
1st AtB
125/100
109/60
72/25
4/15
2nd AtB
125/100
90/60
52/25
49/15
That 2nd AtB is activated as the triggered CD expires and the 1st AtB wears off. There's about a 1s delay (0.5s activation), which means the 2nd AtB is triggered while Aux is ~9/15.
Repeat it again (from scratch)...
125/100
109/60
72/25
4/15
2nd AtB
125/100
88/60
50/25
54/15
Again, the same 1s or so delay...this time with Aux at ~10/15.
So with the ~9 version, rather than dropping Aux back down to 4 (should be 5) - it added back the starting Aux -5. With the ~10 version, it didn't even -5.
You hit a single AtB, it drops to 4 (should be 5)...for 10s. After that 10s, the power is drained that was added and Aux returns to normal.
In hitting that second AtB, sometimes it subtracts 5 (should drop to 5) as it returns the Aux. Sometimes, it just returns the Aux. With the first case, the second AtB is triggering the CD reduction while adding +2 Power. With the second case, the second AtB is triggered the CD without adding power.
There are some curious tricks that you can pull off as well.
Say I take the 4/15 to a x/25? Then it's 14/25. That's fine. Quickly switch back to x/15, then for ~2s it goes to 0/15 before returning to 4/15. That shuffling to offset the penalty might be something that one could consider for tweaking, eh? Since it's allowing you to offset the penalty from the AtB.
But let's complicate it some. The guy's an Eng with the EPS Manifold Trait. Let's pop EPtW1 (won't have to track the change for Weapons) and add that +10 to each subsystem.
125/100
98/60
60/25
64/15
EPS Manifold lasts 18.4s for my guy. So what happens if we hit a single AtB right after the EPtW1?
125/100
124/60
86/25
4/15
Again, Manifold lasts 18.4s for my guys - so that's long enough to trigger the 2nd AtB while it's still active. And we get...
125/100
98/60
60/25
64/15
...for the seconds remaining on Manifold, until it goes to...
125/100
88/60
50/25
54/15
Again, we're not seeing either Shield/Engine gain nor Aux drain on the 2nd AtB...just the CD reduction.
How about a quick look at something, just looking at the Aux?
Base: 54
AtB#1: 4
Manifold#1: 14
AtB#2: 49
Manifold#2: 49
AtB#2 Expires: 64
Inconsistencies.
Add in some Leech, Siphon, MACO shields...and...all sorts of oddities creep up.
This guy that I just did these test? Before switching out his BOFFs (replaced all of them with Naus), AtB#1 took him to 12-14 instead of 4. As you bounce around with too much power from various boosts, you'll run the risk of 0 Aux. Where that would happen for two of the guys, this guy would go to 5 Aux instead. He hits 0 Aux again since I changed the BOFFs.
With some of the things that can take place, can even boost Aux higher with the use of AtB because of how inconsistent the math is - as if it can't handle the speed of calculations or perhaps there's some order of precedence that gets dorked.
So...correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how AtB is supposed to work:
Regardless of Aux, using AtB drops Aux to 5.
You can increase that Aux through a variety of methods (shuffling power, EPtA, Manifold, Leech, Aux Batt, MACO Shields, Siphon, etc).
If a +Power Buff wears off during the 10s AtB is active, you risk 0 Aux.
Straightforward, eh? So yeah...that's my thing, make it work like it should - if that's how it should work - for everybody and each use of AtB. Remove the inconsistencies...then see if it needs any tweaks.
And yet, that's what it takes to make cruisers competitive in PvE and they STILL lag behind in PvP. The type of change that would be needed to make a2b unneeded is a change that we KNOW Cryptic would never implement. They'd rather spend resources building up their next cash cow and drawing in their next crop of churn players. A2B is not a perfect solution by any means, but at least it provides an option to a class of ships that is beloved by a lot of players.
2 Copies of Dem 3
2 Copies of Faw 3
2 Copies of Beta 1 (OR... 2 copies of Omega 1 + 2 copies of Faw 2)
2 Copies of Tac team
2 EPTS 2
2 EPTE 1
2 RSP 2
2 Hazards 2
2 TSS 1
2 Copies of Engi Team (yes global with tac team... still with aux to bat its like having 2 of both teams)
Indeed.... I don't see the value of that at all.
Yes there are other doffs that could allow you to double up on Attack patterns....
And doffs that allow you a CHANCE to have your ship run like it has 4 EPTx...
And there are doffs that allow you to run One copy of Tac team like you had 2.
RSP... ya no doffs that give you 2 copies for the price of one.
What do you have to trade to get that.... your aux power for 10s... but wait it pushes your wepaons shields and engines to 125 for those 10s as well.... I know I feel really squishy in my cruisers when my sheild power is nailed at 130.
People can argue that this is the only thing making cruisers viable all they like... people argued that being able to spike in escorts was all that made them viable as well.
Bottom line is Tech doffs take the place of Attack Pattern / Dmg Control / Tac Team con officers / Engi or Sci team doffs / Energy Weapons doffs... ect ect... and they do it with OUT the RNG roll. Most of the doffs you can replace with tech doffs rely on % mechanics.
Perhaps Aux to Bat needs an RNG... 40% chance to reduce all boff powers by 10%.... that would be about right.
Folks would run 4x EPtX builds with AP and Beam DOFFs instead of DCEs or Techs...giving them their faster FAW and APBs...without risking any Aux loss, not having to give up access to AtS, etc, etc, etc. Back during the LoR beta when Cryptic was talking about the EPtX changes - lol, there were all sorts of arguments between the AtB guys, DCE guys, and Dragon guys...
Would rather remove RNG from the other specialised CD reduction based doff's
Would also be nice to fix photonic officer so that rank II/III isn't pointless.
Heh, I didn't make many friends back then...arguing from the side of AtB and DCE.
This, just this.
Cruisers were badly implemented from the get go. The only way to make them truly effective is a total overhaul of the entirety of the game.
Weapon drain, beam array dps, tac stations, dhc dps, shields (don't even get me started on the mogai having as much shields as a fed cruiser), hull, engineer powers, turnrate. The DPS overhaul would in turn mean an NPC HP overhaul. Everything would need to be adjusted.
A2B goes some way of making a Fed DPS cruiser competitive, but the fact you have to jump through so many loops to make it work just highlights how atrocious they are.
Meanwhile an escort zips around laughing as it vapes dreadnoughts in seconds, not needing doffs or specialised setups to make it effective.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
I kinda figured you were referencing Redricky's thread.
Question was there any Lag in zone when you were testing?
that might account for the timing being off when triggering the 2nd a2b?
were you firing at anyone where plasmotic leach would have triggered?
or being fired at and the MACO Proc triggered? or was this in an empty instance?
Not sure that everything we have in-game currently was tested for how it would interact with everything else without causing some of the weird things that happen. I'm all for a general bug fix patch or season as long as it doesn't break anything else unintentionally as seems to happen far too often.
I know I was all over the map rubber banding last nite including Otha ground map where it was just me and the borg - fire weapon freeze for 5-20secs later it either fired, I disconnected or was bounced halfway across the map to the start area, today no issues with lag at all which is the norm.
Cruisers ruled the roost for a long time or are you forgetting FaW ball?
Fed Cruisers put out less damage than KDF Cruisers that was by design. But, they still did enough dps to kill and Escort were frowned upon b/c they could actually die. There's never been an easier time to over cap weapon's power, please leave the drain crutch somewhere else.
Leave PvE out of this, if anything Sci ships are "weak" in PvE. But, even they can do enough to get the job done.
Escorts avoid and apply damage. They'd be weaker w/o cooldown reduction doffs like those for aux2batt/AP and EPtX cycles that weren't chainable.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Nope, I can't remember that, nor do I remember cruisers ever ruling the roost (and if so it certainly wasn't for a long time). I remember whines about cruisers being unkillable leading to a nerf to shield based abilities. However they've never really been a threat.
I'd be up for that 100% totally... IF the devs a) vastly increased the amount recharge reduction for the AP doffs and b) flooded STO with them so as to drive down the ridiculous prices.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse