I was playing STO since closed beta you monkeydescended fed cool aid drinking fop and KLingon since the faction was put in the game.
I have one fed toon. My fed toon. I only play him for special events.
I know full well I am human in RL.
In the game Im klingon.
Or do you really believe you are part of space fairing race of humans on some trek to be threatened by my viewpoint of said fictional characters?
Get em Roach.... I posted my Arguments on the Entitlement Mindset AND the Gear Disparity subject you finish him off the Honor is yours....
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
All this blather about fed entitlement and how fed ships are sooo much better than kdf ships and gear , which is factual nonsense. btw, 'n u all know it.
You're not even arguing that the kdf weapons aren't better than the fed weapons.
Somehow you've convinced yourselves that you deserve better weapons. lol narcissistic megalomania ftw ey?
Facts are these.
KDF Elite Fleet weapons are better for the following reasons.
#1, the Disruptor proc is modified by the Dmg modifier. Phasers are not.
#2, the Elite KDF Proc, the shield damage buff, effects ALL incoming damage to the effected shields for the duration of its effect. The FED Elite proc is a minute shield heal, one time effect amounting to a single shot of a turret, not a volley, just a shot in that volley. Its completely inconsequential.
#3, SEE NUMBER TWO.
#4, The disruptor proc, coupled with the shield damage proc, literally melts any shields away when a target is being fired on by two ships during its effect. 25% increased shield damage is hUge.
The Phasers are in no way shape or form the least bit comparable.
Federation captains have no real elite weapons.
The discrepancy between the two weapon types is huge. And no, i'm not calling for a nerf of the kdf weapons. I play both factions. Often. What needs to happen is a comparable buff be given to the federation weapons so that they're the least bit useful to have over the advanced.
As it stands, the KDF Elite Disruptors are nearly 'Must Have' if you're min maxing, and the Federation Elite Phasers are 'Not Worth Having'
You all know it. You don't even deny it, just continue to troll 'n spout off opinionated nonsense and hate speech towards federation players.
You should be ashamed. Maybe go back to yelling at 10 year olds playing xbox live.
A couple things could be done to easily mitigate this gap between the two,. One that comes to mind is a nerf, 'n I don't advocate that. It would be that the extra 25% damage effect would ONLY apply to the weapon that procced it. The other, would be a buff to either the shield heal of the phasers or possibly a hardening of the shields. the hardening of the shields thing I think would be most apt. in comparison anyway.
Ah, ok ok...this time I wanna be good and right...
We Feds have the best ships, the best consoles and the best fleet weapons! So...why do we lose often? Because we're a bunch of noobs always complaining and whining and we've no desire to learn and improve our builds, our vessels capabilities and teamworking.
Happy now?:D
wow really ???
let me lay it out for you
it is mostly the players because I can (and do from time to time) play Feds AND KDF I can pretty much shred in PVP regardless of my ship or gear.....
KDF PVP characters: N'talia Daughter of Kor KDF Sci (Vo'Quv Carrier)
Xi'Zzin KDF aligned Romulan Tac (Fleet Ha'feh Warbird)
and these ships ALL do well in PVP without the Elite gear again its not so much the gear as it is the player and his knowledge of tactics, his build, team synergy, communication skills
oh and I have been around since Beta as well Playing KDF since I was capable... I have characters in both factions.... and while I am NOT the best I AM better than most...
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
@starwrathforever: If you want to see a Fed ship own, watch andoriansrus in action. Then, they will proceed to do the same thing KDF side, and all with less than Elite weapons, and few universal consoles. I'm not bragging. I'm frigging jealous. You have no clue what you're talking about.
@diplomat9999: We play both sides of the fence. We're not hating on Fed players. We're putting people in check who need to be. I, personally, don't like to PvP. I get owned alot. I win some, too. Still not my thing. If a single weapon makes or breaks your PvP, you need to get better at PvP. Just sayin'.
All this blather about fed entitlement and how fed ships are sooo much better than kdf ships and gear , which is factual nonsense. btw, 'n u all know it.
You're not even arguing that the kdf weapons aren't better than the fed weapons.
Somehow you've convinced yourselves that you deserve better weapons. lol narcissistic megalomania ftw ey?
Facts are these.
KDF Elite Fleet weapons are better for the following reasons.
#1, the Disruptor proc is modified by the Dmg modifier. Phasers are not.
#2, the Elite KDF Proc, the shield damage buff, effects ALL incoming damage to the effected shields for the duration of its effect. The FED Elite proc is a minute shield heal, one time effect amounting to a single shot of a turret, not a volley, just a shot in that volley. Its completely inconsequential.
#3, SEE NUMBER TWO.
#4, The disruptor proc, coupled with the shield damage proc, literally melts any shields away when a target is being fired on by two ships during its effect. 25% increased shield damage is hUge.
The Phasers are in no way shape or form the least bit comparable.
Federation captains have no real elite weapons.
The discrepancy between the two weapon types is huge. And no, i'm not calling for a nerf of the kdf weapons. I play both factions. Often. What needs to happen is a comparable buff be given to the federation weapons so that they're the least bit useful to have over the advanced.
As it stands, the KDF Elite Disruptors are nearly 'Must Have' if you're min maxing, and the Federation Elite Phasers are 'Not Worth Having'
You all know it. You don't even deny it, just continue to troll 'n spout off opinionated nonsense and hate speech towards federation players.
You should be ashamed. Maybe go back to yelling at 10 year olds playing xbox live.
A couple things could be done to easily mitigate this gap between the two,. One that comes to mind is a nerf, 'n I don't advocate that. It would be that the extra 25% damage effect would ONLY apply to the weapon that procced it. The other, would be a buff to either the shield heal of the phasers or possibly a hardening of the shields. the hardening of the shields thing I think would be most apt. in comparison anyway.
I'm not arguing the point that the Elite Fleet Disruptors are better than Elite Fleet Phasers we know this to be a true statement of fact.... what I am arguing is that they are not the "I Win" button that everyone is claiming that they are......
as I said in a previous post "I'm not the best but I am better than most." and this is without using the Elite Fleet stuff.
why am I better than most you might ask yourself.... because "Most" do not take the time to ask their betters for help and advise, "most" do not learn from their mistakes, "most" do not work well in a team atmosphere, and finally "most" think that because I can strip your shields and go 3/4th the way through their hull that I must be a HACK or a Cheat and not bother with asking intelligent questions...
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Get em Roach.... I posted my Arguments on the Entitlement Mindset AND the Gear Disparity subject you finish him off the Honor is yours....
Im not especially proud of my angry retort because not all feds act childish. Some are very decent people who can step-away from thier fandom to seek balance that does not erode faction diversity just like not all Klingons are Aholes like myself.
Im merely tired of the continuing outlook of "Im a fed and I deserve.......".
As to the Elite Disruptors, they will get nerfed soon enough I think becuase everything gets nerfed eventually.
Enjoy them like the feds enjoyed Old Phaser procs until then.
#1) the standard disruptor proc is a 2.5% chance for a -10% hull resist reduction.
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
#1) the standard disruptor proc is a 2.5% chance for a -10% hull resist reduction.
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
This issue w/those kind of debuffs is that they are force multipliers, ie anyone attacking the debuffed target benefits. I also assume it's all shield resists and not just resists to disruptors.
Generally, the Power Creep wheel turns and one side is on top while the other is on the bottom. The bad part of the shield proc to me is it limits shield options (it tend to melt shields not specialized in resists), though it does help counter the ridiculousness of the fleet shield resists. I wouldn't mind if that added a lighter version on of that proc across factions that wasn't as strong and was only for debuffing a specific energy weapon type and toned down the Fleet shields stacking resists.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Lol...so let me do a quick summary:
The evul KDF has the best surprise alpha ship, the Bop, the best cruiser, the Battle Cruiser, the best suck...ahem...draining vessels, Vo'Quv and Kar'fi, the best consoles, the best fleet weapons.
We Feds have better escorts and real science ships, this is true...but the Bug has canceled our advantage...
And now you would like to have also the science ships! Please, give us at least this...:rolleyes:
We do not have the best surprise alpha ship, at least not when it comes to damage output. Fleet Defiant with cloaking console in the eng or sci slots does better due to 5 tac consoles. We have possibly more versatile decloak alpha ships due to the BoP, but I wouldn't say they're 'the best'.
Yes, I think every KDF player would gladly admit that the KDF has the best faction-specific battlecruisers in the game. This is a good thing, battlecruisers are one of the faction's remaining 'strengths'. Yes, we also have the edge in carriers and draining, and now an edge with the Elite Fleet weapons (the consoles are now almost all available to the Federation for much cheaper than what the KDF has to shell out for 'em).
Compare this to the intrinsic advantage that the Federation has in the form of better escorts, better science ships (which you conveniently downplay, despite the fact that this makes a huge difference in PvP) and now the advantage of Romulan ships compensating for your 'weakness' in cruisers and carriers. On top of that, you retain a large population advantage, which makes a difference in zones like Ker'rat (though this is a different issue, I'll grant).
PS: Oh, and speaking of Romulan ships: I will be eternally amused by the fact that after YEARS of whining about BoP tactics, Federation players are now using the exact same tactics with their battlecloaking Romulan ships, and apparently having no qualms about it. Hilarious.
#1) the standard disruptor proc is a 2.5% chance for a -10% hull resist reduction.
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
Actually Roach...
Disruptors are affected by the DMG modifier. So if you have more of those on your weapons, the amount goes up.
Also, the Disruptor proc, normal one that is, is affected by Tac buffs; which is why a few consider Disruptors (normal ones) to be overpowered.
I would guess that the elite disruptor proc isn't affected by anything though.
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people always seem to forget the design philosophy that the devs have in mind when making this stuff:
Federation has more defensive measures and options for the most part. Not all of them of course, but most are more defense in how they act.
Phaser procs (disable an enemy rather than destroy it), the elite phaser shield heal, the Steamrunner console, etc.
Compared to the much more offensive Klingon side: Disruptors and Elite Disruptors, Theta, the Guramba, etc.
But this is a game of 'pew', so most people don't want to have the defensive stuff most of the time, hence the call outs on Klingon things being 'overpowered'. I mean that btw, do most people honestly do want a lot of extra defensive things? I mean, power creep has pretty much eliminated the need for much of it anyways, allowing everyone to have romulan sci consoles, dil mine engy consoles, elite fleet shields, Romulan BOFFs, and so on.
So again, everyone has all this extra defensive stuff, while not needing the extra Federation-specific stuff as much, and thus the call outs on Klingon things.
However, that doesn't make it OP. Say what you will about things in this game, but 'OP' is only in the eye of the beholder.
Anyways, I don't feel that these need a nerf. I said in an earlier post in this thread, that I would rather have OTHER means of reducing resists on shields. Like using Tachyon Beam, or CPB, or something else. Give us means of making shields weaker *cough* science and engy stuff* cough, then we can see if after that.
As it stands, you can SNB off someone's buffs, PSW an Extends off, but there's not really many ways of actually reducing shield resists.
We all hate dealing with super high shield resists, so why fuss so much over something that actually CAN lower those resists?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Disruptors are affected by the DMG modifier. So if you have more of those on your weapons, the amount goes up.
Also, the Disruptor proc, normal one that is, is affected by Tac buffs; which is why a few consider Disruptors (normal ones) to be overpowered.
I would guess that the elite disruptor proc isn't affected by anything though.
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people always seem to forget the design philosophy that the devs have in mind when making this stuff:
Federation has more defensive measures and options for the most part. Not all of them of course, but most are more defense in how they act.
Phaser procs (disable an enemy rather than destroy it), the elite phaser shield heal, the Steamrunner console, etc.
Compared to the much more offensive Klingon side: Disruptors and Elite Disruptors, Theta, the Guramba, etc.
But this is a game of 'pew', so most people don't want to have the defensive stuff most of the time, hence the call outs on Klingon things being 'overpowered'. I mean that btw, do most people honestly do want a lot of extra defensive things? I mean, power creep has pretty much eliminated the need for much of it anyways, allowing everyone to have romulan sci consoles, dil mine engy consoles, elite fleet shields, Romulan BOFFs, and so on.
So again, everyone has all this extra defensive stuff, while not needing the extra Federation-specific stuff as much, and thus the call outs on Klingon things.
However, that doesn't make it OP. Say what you will about things in this game, but 'OP' is only in the eye of the beholder.
Anyways, I don't feel that these need a nerf. I said in an earlier post in this thread, that I would rather have OTHER means of reducing resists on shields. Like using Tachyon Beam, or CPB, or something else. Give us means of making shields weaker *cough* science and engy stuff* cough, then we can see if after that.
As it stands, you can SNB off someone's buffs, PSW an Extends off, but there's not really many ways of actually reducing shield resists.
We all hate dealing with super high shield resists, so why fuss so much over something that actually CAN lower those resists?
Agreed, against people running high shield resistances. . .about the only way to easily kill them would be to use bleedthrough damage (transphasics, plasma, DEM, normal bleedthrough, etc), or to somehow take their shields offline long enough to do sufficient damage. This can take some time, especially if they're also loaded up with some hull-heals and a high hull regen rate.
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people always seem to forget the design philosophy that the devs have in mind when making this stuff:
Federation has more defensive measures and options for the most part. Not all of them of course, but most are more defense in how they act.
Phaser procs (disable an enemy rather than destroy it), the elite phaser shield heal, the Steamrunner console, etc.
Compared to the much more offensive Klingon side: Disruptors and Elite Disruptors, Theta, the Guramba, etc.
This part is largely not the root of the problem.
Your second part where you go into how -res is basically more useful in this game is closer.
The other part is sheer parity.
5 x players basically guaranteeing -hull and -shield res debuffs on a focused target is a gigantic boost to the force (team).
1 player procing a heal is not.
Even though 5 guys can all proc their heals at the same time, it's:
A) Still not a force multiplier.
Irrelevant since you can't focus fire 5 people at once (and thus them healing themselves with procs is pointless and not an example of force multiplication).
If the Elite Fed phaser proc granted a teamwide +25% shield resistance boost, then it would actually be equivalent.
If they did get that, I'd be screaming just as loud because that would be just as much an awful design as the KDF fleet weapons are.
This is just another in a long line of special abilities that get given to KDF that are either wildly OP, problematic or just plain superior in some idiotic design philosophy that doesn't give them proper/newer ships and gives them horribly OP pets and consoles instead.
Meanwhile feds continually get an endless parade of new ships, but almost universally terrible consoles and special powers. A few exceptions not withstanding.
I think this topic is done to death though at this point. How well do those KvK and FvK queues pop, even now, with Feds having almost all of the toys KDF has - with a few last remaining (and notably problematic items) left to go?
The damage has been done and it has not been done to Fedside. Fedside doesn't get hurt when KDF gets items like the Elite Fleet Weapons - it hurts KDF side more.
This is just another in a long line of special abilities that get given to KDF that are either wildly OP, problematic or just plain superior in some idiotic design philosophy that doesn't give them proper/newer ships and gives them horribly OP pets and consoles instead.
I must say as someone that has only played KDF since launch I largely agree with this.
I have always pondered why the most "offensive" of the playable factions has such a poor "offensive" ship line-up compared to the one which is the antithesis of this.
From races to traits, KDF has always come out at the bottom. KDF is the only one that has no space trait. Romulan get bonus damage and cloaking, Humans get leadership, and what does KDF get but a handful of ground traits of no importance. Ground PvP is unofficially dead at the moment.
It would appear that Feds received better ships & stats, and to balance that KDF got better consoles and weapons at the expense of "weaker" ships.
But, then the console swapping started and the small advantage which the KDF did have to narrow the divide was given the the Feds and Roms just the same I started to realise that the KDF was already on the slippery downhill.
So where does the KDF stand now?
Aceton Assimilator - soon to be given to Feds.
Disruptors - not sure, although nearly equitable weapons found their way into a lockbox...
When these last two bastions of KDF uniqueness are remove, the KDF will be at a substantial disadvantage across the board.
Feds will have access to the best of everything. Already, there are even some respected PvP members who are open about the fact that the Feds now field escorts better than the JHAS, and to a certain degree its arguable that so do the Romulans.
I must say as someone that has only played KDF since launch I largely agree with this.
I have always pondered any the most "offensive" of the playable factions has such a poor "offensive" ship line-up compared to the one which is the antithesis of this.
From races to traits, KDF has always come out at the bottom. KDF is the only one that has no space trait. Romulan get bonus damage and cloaking, Humans get leadership, and what does KDF get but a handful of ground traits of no importance.
I always believed that Feds for the better ships & stats, and to balance that KDF got better consoles and weapons at the expense of "weaker" ships.
But, then the console swapping started and the small advantage which the KDF did have to narrow the divide was given the the Feds and Roms just the same.
So where does the KDF stand now?
Aceton Assimilator - soon to be given to Feds.
Disruptors - not sure.
When these last two bastions of KDF uniqueness are remove, the KDF will be at a substantial disadvantage across the board.
Feds have access to the best of everything. There are even some respected PvP members who are open about the fact that the Feds now field escorts better than the JHAS.
I would be fine if the Federation got the edge in science ships and had cruisers that were better at tanking than our battlecruisers (which they are, at least in some instances). Those are the traditional Federation strengths. . .durable cruisers and advanced sciences. KDF strengths should be attack-heavy battlecruisers and escort-level ships that generally kick TRIBBLE. The weakness in the science field would be acceptable at that point, and the two factions could perhaps have carrier arms that are roughly equivalent but with different focuses. That would be my idea of a balanced selection of ship lines between the two factions.
Of course, then there's the issue of the Romulans. As any observant KDF player will note, the Federation has been using the Romulan ships to compensate for their traditional 'weaknesses'. . .that being the lack of burst-DPSing cruisers and the lack of cloaking ships. In fact, the Federation has been copying KDF BoP tactics when using their new Fed-Rom battlecloakers. . .this is after years of whining about BoPs. Meanwhile, the KDF didn't really gain as much from the Romulan faction in terms of supplementing their ships. . .we already had battlecruisers that could de-cloak alpha. We already had battlecloaking raiders (BoPs). The Romulan ship line is not at the point where it's fully compensating for the KDF's lack of science ships (though ships like the Ha'nom Guardian are helpful), and Romulan escorts are not anything that compensates for KDF weaknesses compared to the Federation options.
PS: Oh, and speaking of Romulan ships: I will be eternally amused by the fact that after YEARS of whining about BoP tactics, Federation players are now using the exact same tactics with their battlecloaking Romulan ships, and apparently having no qualms about it. Hilarious.
I presume you're talking mostly about premades here and while I agree with this statement to a large extent and very much share the amusement, I would like to point out that at least some of those players will only be 'Fed' because of a decision forced upon them at level 10, and, given your other point about the population issue, on which I think I also agree with you, it's hardly surprising. There is also the other issue of 'better dead than Red' :P
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
This issue w/those kind of debuffs is that they are force multipliers, ie anyone attacking the debuffed target benefits. I also assume it's all shield resists and not just resists to disruptors.
Generally, the Power Creep wheel turns and one side is on top while the other is on the bottom. The bad part of the shield proc to me is it limits shield options (it tend to melt shields not specialized in resists), though it does help counter the ridiculousness of the fleet shield resists. I wouldn't mind if that added a lighter version on of that proc across factions that wasn't as strong and was only for debuffing a specific energy weapon type and toned down the Fleet shields stacking resists.
Speaking of the Elite Disproc. Its a shield resist debuff, so why to the BOff abilities that restore debuffed shields to thier normal status not also work to remove this proc debuff?
If all the availible shield debuff removing abilities do work, then I see no issue with this proc.
If the proper shield healing powers do not remove this debuff, then why not?
most romulans players align with the federation at level 10 for one plain and simple reason... the availability of the KDF consoles (which are easier to aquire for the feds than the KDF)
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
#1) the standard disruptor proc is a 2.5% chance for a -10% hull resist reduction.
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
Yes. It does.
The point is that the procs are complementary and therefore much more effective where the fed proc has nothing what so ever to do with the weapons effectiveness.
Wookies do not live on endor. It does not make sense.
And it sux.
#3 derpyderp durp hurr.
#4 just one source. one weapon. effecting all incoming damage on effected target.
All incoming damage being from all weapons.
#5 what a ridiculous argument. fact is i'm right, you're wrong.
anyone with half a brain in their head willing to step away from the situation for one single hot minute is able to see the gap between the two weapon types is ridiculously wide.
How in the world people like yourself can continue to spout off this hypocritical opinionated bullshi* and still retain any sort of credibility what so ever in the pvp arena is well beyond my capabilities to comprehend.
No Offence.
Your second part where you go into how -res is basically more useful in this game is closer.
The other part is sheer parity.
5 x players basically guaranteeing -hull and -shield res debuffs on a focused target is a gigantic boost to the force (team).
1 player procing a heal is not.
Even though 5 guys can all proc their heals at the same time, it's:
A) Still not a force multiplier.
Irrelevant since you can't focus fire 5 people at once (and thus them healing themselves with procs is pointless and not an example of force multiplication).
If the Elite Fed phaser proc granted a teamwide +25% shield resistance boost, then it would actually be equivalent.
If they did get that, I'd be screaming just as loud because that would be just as much an awful design as the KDF fleet weapons are.
This is just another in a long line of special abilities that get given to KDF that are either wildly OP, problematic or just plain superior in some idiotic design philosophy that doesn't give them proper/newer ships and gives them horribly OP pets and consoles instead.
Meanwhile feds continually get an endless parade of new ships, but almost universally terrible consoles and special powers. A few exceptions not withstanding.
I think this topic is done to death though at this point. How well do those KvK and FvK queues pop, even now, with Feds having almost all of the toys KDF has - with a few last remaining (and notably problematic items) left to go?
The damage has been done and it has not been done to Fedside. Fedside doesn't get hurt when KDF gets items like the Elite Fleet Weapons - it hurts KDF side more.
Hmm...I suppose you are right. I understand all that, but I still feel like there should be other means of actually reducing shield resists as part of normal abilities, I will stand by that without moving, because I think it's something that would be extremely useful to the game due to all the extreme high shield resists that anyone is easily capable of nowadays for little to no effort.
I think what really kept Disruptors more in line before, was the fact that they WERE hull resist debuffs. But that's all. Having a lot of nearly-guaranteed hull and shield resists from a team constantly on a target (or might as well be if 5 people are using it), is indeed a force multiplier.
I'm not denying that these can be OTT, especially as they proliferate more, and perhaps Tetryon would've been a better choice to gain such a debuff (which I would totally buy btw, since few people ever use Tetryon and I rather like em myself).
That aside though, I HIGHLY agree that this only damages the KDF. All these new ships and such on the Fed-side (Romulan side is still getting ships because they are a new faction and thus I have no issue with it), giving them a huge variety of highly effective ships. While the KDF have been left in the dust, the last C-store ships having been the two new low level BoPs, and before that, the Bortasqu', but aside from that, nothing. Only a couple fleet ships even as well.
I would gladly see huge nerfs to all the big 'OP Klingon toys' (including the ones Feds have and will get) if it meant getting actual SHIPS that could compete in the main meta of the game. I'm not saying there aren't any, because stuff like the Guramba (even if it doesn't have a fleet version yet), Fleet Tor'kaht, etc come to mind. But for the most part, if there's a Klingon ship, there's a Fed or Rom ship that can do it better.
What I am surprised about is how...'ok' people seem to be with Romulan ships as well. Especially FvF queues. All that time of 'decloaking alphas' from BoPs was 'bad', yet now with EVERY Romulan ship having a BC, it's suddenly 'acceptable' to be de-cloaked on more?
@Mimey.
Are you saying the Disruptor Tac consoles increase the standard -10% hull resist debuff beyond that value.
No. That doesn't affect them. I mean the actual damage, aka 'DMG' modifier on a weapon affects them. Look at a standard Mk XII white disruptor weapon, then look at an Advanced fleet one, either a DmgX3, or Accx2 DmgX2. The proc will be higher.
Tac buffs, like APA, APO, etc, also affect it. Other non-tac buffs that affect 'all damage' might also boost them a little, like the new Elite Warp Cores people will eventually get.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
What I am surprised about is how...'ok' people seem to be with Romulan ships as well. Especially FvF queues. All that time of 'decloaking alphas' from BoPs was 'bad', yet now with EVERY Romulan ship having a BC, it's suddenly 'acceptable' to be de-cloaked on more?
I think it's partly because before, Feds could 'hide' in the 'safe' FvF queues, and so when players, who wouldn't normally, did venture into a FvK, it was a shock. It's probably also got to do with the fact that now it doesn't matter because what we have is: F, FR, K, KR and so when it's F+FR v K it's not so noticable due to the fact that the queue in which people used 'hide' is now habitually F+FR v F+FR. When OP is on my team too, it's suddenly not OP.
LMAO
Does any of that actually make any sense?
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Comments
Get em Roach.... I posted my Arguments on the Entitlement Mindset AND the Gear Disparity subject you finish him off the Honor is yours....
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
All this blather about fed entitlement and how fed ships are sooo much better than kdf ships and gear , which is factual nonsense. btw, 'n u all know it.
You're not even arguing that the kdf weapons aren't better than the fed weapons.
Somehow you've convinced yourselves that you deserve better weapons. lol narcissistic megalomania ftw ey?
Facts are these.
KDF Elite Fleet weapons are better for the following reasons.
#1, the Disruptor proc is modified by the Dmg modifier. Phasers are not.
#2, the Elite KDF Proc, the shield damage buff, effects ALL incoming damage to the effected shields for the duration of its effect. The FED Elite proc is a minute shield heal, one time effect amounting to a single shot of a turret, not a volley, just a shot in that volley. Its completely inconsequential.
#3, SEE NUMBER TWO.
#4, The disruptor proc, coupled with the shield damage proc, literally melts any shields away when a target is being fired on by two ships during its effect. 25% increased shield damage is hUge.
The Phasers are in no way shape or form the least bit comparable.
Federation captains have no real elite weapons.
The discrepancy between the two weapon types is huge. And no, i'm not calling for a nerf of the kdf weapons. I play both factions. Often. What needs to happen is a comparable buff be given to the federation weapons so that they're the least bit useful to have over the advanced.
As it stands, the KDF Elite Disruptors are nearly 'Must Have' if you're min maxing, and the Federation Elite Phasers are 'Not Worth Having'
You all know it. You don't even deny it, just continue to troll 'n spout off opinionated nonsense and hate speech towards federation players.
You should be ashamed. Maybe go back to yelling at 10 year olds playing xbox live.
A couple things could be done to easily mitigate this gap between the two,. One that comes to mind is a nerf, 'n I don't advocate that. It would be that the extra 25% damage effect would ONLY apply to the weapon that procced it. The other, would be a buff to either the shield heal of the phasers or possibly a hardening of the shields. the hardening of the shields thing I think would be most apt. in comparison anyway.
wow really ???
let me lay it out for you
it is mostly the players because I can (and do from time to time) play Feds AND KDF I can pretty much shred in PVP regardless of my ship or gear.....
Fed PVP characters: Zissen Fed Sci Captain (Deep Space Science Vessel)
De'lyn Fed Tac Captain (Kumari)
KDF PVP characters: N'talia Daughter of Kor KDF Sci (Vo'Quv Carrier)
Xi'Zzin KDF aligned Romulan Tac (Fleet Ha'feh Warbird)
and these ships ALL do well in PVP without the Elite gear again its not so much the gear as it is the player and his knowledge of tactics, his build, team synergy, communication skills
oh and I have been around since Beta as well Playing KDF since I was capable... I have characters in both factions.... and while I am NOT the best I AM better than most...
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
@diplomat9999: We play both sides of the fence. We're not hating on Fed players. We're putting people in check who need to be. I, personally, don't like to PvP. I get owned alot. I win some, too. Still not my thing. If a single weapon makes or breaks your PvP, you need to get better at PvP. Just sayin'.
He sparked my ire.
As to klingon origons..I do not think they came from primates.
R.I.P
I'm not arguing the point that the Elite Fleet Disruptors are better than Elite Fleet Phasers we know this to be a true statement of fact.... what I am arguing is that they are not the "I Win" button that everyone is claiming that they are......
as I said in a previous post "I'm not the best but I am better than most." and this is without using the Elite Fleet stuff.
why am I better than most you might ask yourself.... because "Most" do not take the time to ask their betters for help and advise, "most" do not learn from their mistakes, "most" do not work well in a team atmosphere, and finally "most" think that because I can strip your shields and go 3/4th the way through their hull that I must be a HACK or a Cheat and not bother with asking intelligent questions...
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Im not especially proud of my angry retort because not all feds act childish. Some are very decent people who can step-away from thier fandom to seek balance that does not erode faction diversity just like not all Klingons are Aholes like myself.
Im merely tired of the continuing outlook of "Im a fed and I deserve.......".
As to the Elite Disruptors, they will get nerfed soon enough I think becuase everything gets nerfed eventually.
Enjoy them like the feds enjoyed Old Phaser procs until then.
R.I.P
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
R.I.P
2 : the phasers are up
3 : it needs a balance
I disagree.
I disagree.
If they are broken, sure.
R.I.P
This issue w/those kind of debuffs is that they are force multipliers, ie anyone attacking the debuffed target benefits. I also assume it's all shield resists and not just resists to disruptors.
Generally, the Power Creep wheel turns and one side is on top while the other is on the bottom. The bad part of the shield proc to me is it limits shield options (it tend to melt shields not specialized in resists), though it does help counter the ridiculousness of the fleet shield resists. I wouldn't mind if that added a lighter version on of that proc across factions that wasn't as strong and was only for debuffing a specific energy weapon type and toned down the Fleet shields stacking resists.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
We do not have the best surprise alpha ship, at least not when it comes to damage output. Fleet Defiant with cloaking console in the eng or sci slots does better due to 5 tac consoles. We have possibly more versatile decloak alpha ships due to the BoP, but I wouldn't say they're 'the best'.
Yes, I think every KDF player would gladly admit that the KDF has the best faction-specific battlecruisers in the game. This is a good thing, battlecruisers are one of the faction's remaining 'strengths'. Yes, we also have the edge in carriers and draining, and now an edge with the Elite Fleet weapons (the consoles are now almost all available to the Federation for much cheaper than what the KDF has to shell out for 'em).
Compare this to the intrinsic advantage that the Federation has in the form of better escorts, better science ships (which you conveniently downplay, despite the fact that this makes a huge difference in PvP) and now the advantage of Romulan ships compensating for your 'weakness' in cruisers and carriers. On top of that, you retain a large population advantage, which makes a difference in zones like Ker'rat (though this is a different issue, I'll grant).
PS: Oh, and speaking of Romulan ships: I will be eternally amused by the fact that after YEARS of whining about BoP tactics, Federation players are now using the exact same tactics with their battlecloaking Romulan ships, and apparently having no qualms about it. Hilarious.
Actually Roach...
Disruptors are affected by the DMG modifier. So if you have more of those on your weapons, the amount goes up.
Also, the Disruptor proc, normal one that is, is affected by Tac buffs; which is why a few consider Disruptors (normal ones) to be overpowered.
I would guess that the elite disruptor proc isn't affected by anything though.
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people always seem to forget the design philosophy that the devs have in mind when making this stuff:
Federation has more defensive measures and options for the most part. Not all of them of course, but most are more defense in how they act.
Phaser procs (disable an enemy rather than destroy it), the elite phaser shield heal, the Steamrunner console, etc.
Compared to the much more offensive Klingon side: Disruptors and Elite Disruptors, Theta, the Guramba, etc.
But this is a game of 'pew', so most people don't want to have the defensive stuff most of the time, hence the call outs on Klingon things being 'overpowered'. I mean that btw, do most people honestly do want a lot of extra defensive things? I mean, power creep has pretty much eliminated the need for much of it anyways, allowing everyone to have romulan sci consoles, dil mine engy consoles, elite fleet shields, Romulan BOFFs, and so on.
So again, everyone has all this extra defensive stuff, while not needing the extra Federation-specific stuff as much, and thus the call outs on Klingon things.
However, that doesn't make it OP. Say what you will about things in this game, but 'OP' is only in the eye of the beholder.
Anyways, I don't feel that these need a nerf. I said in an earlier post in this thread, that I would rather have OTHER means of reducing resists on shields. Like using Tachyon Beam, or CPB, or something else. Give us means of making shields weaker *cough* science and engy stuff* cough, then we can see if after that.
As it stands, you can SNB off someone's buffs, PSW an Extends off, but there's not really many ways of actually reducing shield resists.
We all hate dealing with super high shield resists, so why fuss so much over something that actually CAN lower those resists?
Agreed, against people running high shield resistances. . .about the only way to easily kill them would be to use bleedthrough damage (transphasics, plasma, DEM, normal bleedthrough, etc), or to somehow take their shields offline long enough to do sufficient damage. This can take some time, especially if they're also loaded up with some hull-heals and a high hull regen rate.
This part is largely not the root of the problem.
Your second part where you go into how -res is basically more useful in this game is closer.
The other part is sheer parity.
5 x players basically guaranteeing -hull and -shield res debuffs on a focused target is a gigantic boost to the force (team).
1 player procing a heal is not.
Even though 5 guys can all proc their heals at the same time, it's:
A) Still not a force multiplier.
If the Elite Fed phaser proc granted a teamwide +25% shield resistance boost, then it would actually be equivalent.
If they did get that, I'd be screaming just as loud because that would be just as much an awful design as the KDF fleet weapons are.
This is just another in a long line of special abilities that get given to KDF that are either wildly OP, problematic or just plain superior in some idiotic design philosophy that doesn't give them proper/newer ships and gives them horribly OP pets and consoles instead.
Meanwhile feds continually get an endless parade of new ships, but almost universally terrible consoles and special powers. A few exceptions not withstanding.
I think this topic is done to death though at this point. How well do those KvK and FvK queues pop, even now, with Feds having almost all of the toys KDF has - with a few last remaining (and notably problematic items) left to go?
The damage has been done and it has not been done to Fedside. Fedside doesn't get hurt when KDF gets items like the Elite Fleet Weapons - it hurts KDF side more.
I must say as someone that has only played KDF since launch I largely agree with this.
I have always pondered why the most "offensive" of the playable factions has such a poor "offensive" ship line-up compared to the one which is the antithesis of this.
From races to traits, KDF has always come out at the bottom. KDF is the only one that has no space trait. Romulan get bonus damage and cloaking, Humans get leadership, and what does KDF get but a handful of ground traits of no importance. Ground PvP is unofficially dead at the moment.
It would appear that Feds received better ships & stats, and to balance that KDF got better consoles and weapons at the expense of "weaker" ships.
But, then the console swapping started and the small advantage which the KDF did have to narrow the divide was given the the Feds and Roms just the same I started to realise that the KDF was already on the slippery downhill.
So where does the KDF stand now?
Aceton Assimilator - soon to be given to Feds.
Disruptors - not sure, although nearly equitable weapons found their way into a lockbox...
When these last two bastions of KDF uniqueness are remove, the KDF will be at a substantial disadvantage across the board.
Feds will have access to the best of everything. Already, there are even some respected PvP members who are open about the fact that the Feds now field escorts better than the JHAS, and to a certain degree its arguable that so do the Romulans.
I would be fine if the Federation got the edge in science ships and had cruisers that were better at tanking than our battlecruisers (which they are, at least in some instances). Those are the traditional Federation strengths. . .durable cruisers and advanced sciences. KDF strengths should be attack-heavy battlecruisers and escort-level ships that generally kick TRIBBLE. The weakness in the science field would be acceptable at that point, and the two factions could perhaps have carrier arms that are roughly equivalent but with different focuses. That would be my idea of a balanced selection of ship lines between the two factions.
Of course, then there's the issue of the Romulans. As any observant KDF player will note, the Federation has been using the Romulan ships to compensate for their traditional 'weaknesses'. . .that being the lack of burst-DPSing cruisers and the lack of cloaking ships. In fact, the Federation has been copying KDF BoP tactics when using their new Fed-Rom battlecloakers. . .this is after years of whining about BoPs. Meanwhile, the KDF didn't really gain as much from the Romulan faction in terms of supplementing their ships. . .we already had battlecruisers that could de-cloak alpha. We already had battlecloaking raiders (BoPs). The Romulan ship line is not at the point where it's fully compensating for the KDF's lack of science ships (though ships like the Ha'nom Guardian are helpful), and Romulan escorts are not anything that compensates for KDF weaknesses compared to the Federation options.
I presume you're talking mostly about premades here and while I agree with this statement to a large extent and very much share the amusement, I would like to point out that at least some of those players will only be 'Fed' because of a decision forced upon them at level 10, and, given your other point about the population issue, on which I think I also agree with you, it's hardly surprising. There is also the other issue of 'better dead than Red' :P
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Speaking of the Elite Disproc. Its a shield resist debuff, so why to the BOff abilities that restore debuffed shields to thier normal status not also work to remove this proc debuff?
If all the availible shield debuff removing abilities do work, then I see no issue with this proc.
If the proper shield healing powers do not remove this debuff, then why not?
R.I.P
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Are you saying the Disruptor Tac consoles increase the standard -10% hull resist debuff beyond that value.
R.I.P
Yes. It does.
The point is that the procs are complementary and therefore much more effective where the fed proc has nothing what so ever to do with the weapons effectiveness.
Wookies do not live on endor. It does not make sense.
And it sux.
#3 derpyderp durp hurr.
#4 just one source. one weapon. effecting all incoming damage on effected target.
All incoming damage being from all weapons.
#5 what a ridiculous argument. fact is i'm right, you're wrong.
anyone with half a brain in their head willing to step away from the situation for one single hot minute is able to see the gap between the two weapon types is ridiculously wide.
How in the world people like yourself can continue to spout off this hypocritical opinionated bullshi* and still retain any sort of credibility what so ever in the pvp arena is well beyond my capabilities to comprehend.
No Offence.
Hmm...I suppose you are right. I understand all that, but I still feel like there should be other means of actually reducing shield resists as part of normal abilities, I will stand by that without moving, because I think it's something that would be extremely useful to the game due to all the extreme high shield resists that anyone is easily capable of nowadays for little to no effort.
I think what really kept Disruptors more in line before, was the fact that they WERE hull resist debuffs. But that's all. Having a lot of nearly-guaranteed hull and shield resists from a team constantly on a target (or might as well be if 5 people are using it), is indeed a force multiplier.
I'm not denying that these can be OTT, especially as they proliferate more, and perhaps Tetryon would've been a better choice to gain such a debuff (which I would totally buy btw, since few people ever use Tetryon and I rather like em myself).
That aside though, I HIGHLY agree that this only damages the KDF. All these new ships and such on the Fed-side (Romulan side is still getting ships because they are a new faction and thus I have no issue with it), giving them a huge variety of highly effective ships. While the KDF have been left in the dust, the last C-store ships having been the two new low level BoPs, and before that, the Bortasqu', but aside from that, nothing. Only a couple fleet ships even as well.
I would gladly see huge nerfs to all the big 'OP Klingon toys' (including the ones Feds have and will get) if it meant getting actual SHIPS that could compete in the main meta of the game. I'm not saying there aren't any, because stuff like the Guramba (even if it doesn't have a fleet version yet), Fleet Tor'kaht, etc come to mind. But for the most part, if there's a Klingon ship, there's a Fed or Rom ship that can do it better.
What I am surprised about is how...'ok' people seem to be with Romulan ships as well. Especially FvF queues. All that time of 'decloaking alphas' from BoPs was 'bad', yet now with EVERY Romulan ship having a BC, it's suddenly 'acceptable' to be de-cloaked on more?
No. That doesn't affect them. I mean the actual damage, aka 'DMG' modifier on a weapon affects them. Look at a standard Mk XII white disruptor weapon, then look at an Advanced fleet one, either a DmgX3, or Accx2 DmgX2. The proc will be higher.
Tac buffs, like APA, APO, etc, also affect it. Other non-tac buffs that affect 'all damage' might also boost them a little, like the new Elite Warp Cores people will eventually get.
I think it's partly because before, Feds could 'hide' in the 'safe' FvF queues, and so when players, who wouldn't normally, did venture into a FvK, it was a shock. It's probably also got to do with the fact that now it doesn't matter because what we have is: F, FR, K, KR and so when it's F+FR v K it's not so noticable due to the fact that the queue in which people used 'hide' is now habitually F+FR v F+FR. When OP is on my team too, it's suddenly not OP.
LMAO
Does any of that actually make any sense?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.