Naz, don't lie. In the end we still beat their premade when they were abusing 50+% resist pre-nerf fleet shields :P
Hobos have potential, but they have a weak spot when it comes to crutches.
Well, last time hobos fought pandas we randomly met y'all in the queue a few days ago and it was a fairly one-sided victory for hobos (I was using my Recluse healer, Kratom Adu). There's a very wide range in skill on hobos, but we have a pretty decent premade team when all of the right people are on at the same time. We'd be even better if we had a teamspeak server :x
Y'know, it doesn't really help that there isn't a lot of shield resist debuffs (SNB being put aside for the moment) in the game in the first place.
There is:
Elite Disruptors
Tachyon Burst thing from one of the Andorian escorts
Tachyon Mines outta the lobi store.
I think that is about it, right?
Two of those things are better on an escort, Tachyon Burst requires you to use the Wing cannons and the console, and the tachyon mines can be used with DPB. You need to spec into flow caps still, that is true, but it's still the fact that a better shield draining build can be made with an escort with a tac then a dedicated science can.
If some of the BOFF abilities (whether by themselves or with a DOFF) would also give some negative shield resist debuffs, that might go a long way to not making these quite so insane by comparison, and either side could easily run 'shield strippers' in their own way.
There's just tons of ways to effortlessly get shield resist and such, but few ways to weaken them aside from being SNB'd and alpha'd, aka death.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Y'know, it doesn't really help that there isn't a lot of shield resist debuffs (SNB being put aside for the moment) in the game in the first place.
There is:
Elite Disruptors
Tachyon Burst thing from one of the Andorian escorts
Tachyon Mines outta the lobi store.
I think that is about it, right?
Two of those things are better on an escort, Tachyon Burst requires you to use the Wing cannons and the console, and the tachyon mines can be used with DPB. You need to spec into flow caps still, that is true, but it's still the fact that a better shield draining build can be made with an escort with a tac then a dedicated science can.
If some of the BOFF abilities (whether by themselves or with a DOFF) would also give some negative shield resist debuffs, that might go a long way to not making these quite so insane by comparison, and either side could easily run 'shield strippers' in their own way.
There's just tons of ways to effortlessly get shield resist and such, but few ways to weaken them aside from being SNB'd and alpha'd, aka death.
tachyon burst cant be moved to other ships ,tachyon mines are pretty lol (i think they remove 2% shield resistence ...they dont do much against people who know how to spec) and elite disruptors are in klinky domain.
at least everyone has cloak now ,so shields are down
funny thing is that you never hear klingons whining about not having Kumari's and Vesta's.....or other items exclusivly belonging to fed...
^This. Feds get the best ships, the widest variety of ships, and now most of the KDF's best consoles and gear, and still they cry when the KDF gets one item that's better than theirs.
^This. Feds get the best ships, the widest variety of ships, and now most of the KDF's best consoles and gear, and still they cry when the KDF gets one item that's better than theirs.
Has no one else noticed this? Feds get the KDF tricks but KDF barely gets anything in return. You'd think after 20 unique ships and abilities the Feds would finally be satisfied.
Has no one else noticed this? Feds get the KDF tricks but KDF barely gets anything in return. You'd think after 20 unique ships and abilities the Feds would finally be satisfied.
I suspect that once the Feds have either nerfed the disruptor into uselessness or somehow acquired it for themselves, and once they have ace. assi. they will turn their attention to seeing the Romulans nuted, the latter of which is already happening.
Most of the anti-Rommie sentiment is coming from primarily Feds. Been long enough in the game to know handles. While some of it has merit, much of it comes from ulterior motives of wanted Feds to remain in the limelight. Its like literally watching a favorite child throw a tantrum when a young sibling receives even modest attention.
Feds refuse to recognize the fact that the scale of balance in Fed. vs. KDF ships favors the Fed line-up.
They refuse to even think that what KDF ships lack in terms of firepower Cryptic have tried to balance in terms of other things.
So for example, the Andorian Escort gets 5-fore weapons and 5-tac consoles (one of five ships that can do this!) + special weapons at the expense of reduced durability. The KDF does not even have any Raiders on the c-store for Tier 5! The only c-store escort for KDF is a vanity item no serious PvP will go near to.
The KDF just don't have the ability to leverage that firepower.
Hence, why we should have the disruptors.
Give the KDF more ships of equal footing to the Fed escorts and other ships, and then there will be no reason why the KDF should have them. But, still too this day long past it's due, Feds STILL argue that the outdated BOP has an unfair advantage over Fed escorts. They STILL cling to the belief that the battlecruiser is a valid justification for want. That is coveting by its very nature.
But, if history has proven anything to me, the disruptors will eventually be given to Feds, and when they do have everything unique of the KDF, they will inundate the KDF forums with gloat.
Remember hax pandas? That was the Klink arm. Starbase is what happened. Can't maintain 2 at once unless you believe the rumors that were spread not so long ago.
Common guys the Op summed it up nicely. OP is not the issue, the decision not to grind hax panda base is. One week after feds get EHB, the elite disruptor are in line. This from the same guys bringing you constant leech and siphon drones QQ.
Seriously Naz, if you do what you do in the name of balance, give some nerf love to both sides, including FED only and lockbox toys. Otherwise start grinding your base like all the other KDF fleets.
I suspect that once the Feds have either nerfed the disruptor into uselessness or somehow acquired it for themselves
Hi Drk,
Actually...
I don't want this weapon to come to Fedside. There is nothing worse than a defacto "best weapon" from a few standpoints.
1) It reduces options.
2) It allows your enemy to know what you're fielding. In this particular case, they know to slot ResB shields and Diburnium.
3) It creates a crutch.
If we stacked all of the available procs up, side by side. This proc is easily the best of the bunch.
It also does not cost you the standard Disruptor proc (still one of the best, imo). So you get what is, quite easily, the single best combination of procs in the game - 2 force multipliers!!
It is such a good proc that people are willing to accept only a single ACC mod to use it. That speaks volumes to me.
they will turn their attention to seeing the Romulans nuted, the latter of which is already happening.
Romulans are us. They are Fed and KDF.
It's also pretty clear they have some massively OP items and mechanics atm.
As a performance focused player, I literally have zero reason to ever play any of my Fed tacs from this point forward.
Operative and Subterfuge traits have seen to this.
Realistically, KDF should be more upset about Romulans than Feds are.
They get battle cloaks everywhere, gives battle cloak to feds, and their ships are generally very well designed (if at times might have some slightly less than ideal boff seating) - or they can use most of the available lockbox ships (excluding, IIRC, temporal vessels).
They refuse to even think that what KDF ships lack in terms of firepower Cryptic have tried to balance in terms of other things.
I think many recognize why it was done, we just disagree with that decision.
Giving one faction OP gimmicky stuff (and then giving that away through proliferation) instead of giving them proper endgame ships is just a bad design framework.
Surely we can agree this has had a negative impact on the health of the FvK and KvK queues overtime?
So for example, the Andorian Escort gets 5-fore weapons and 5-tac consoles (one of five ships that can do this!) + special weapons at the expense of reduced durability. The KDF does not even have any Raiders on the c-store for Tier 5! The only c-store escort for KDF is a vanity item no serious PvP will go near to.
Few serious PvPers will touch the Andorian Kumari Escort. :P
I pretty much dare anyone to attempt to fly the 5 Fore / 5 Tac Console ship. All it does is make you an easy target with less real teeth than people assume on face value and it has one of the worst BOFF arrangements in the entire game.
Honestly the Andorian escort was one of the biggest paper tigers released in a long while. It was way over-hyped for what this ship is actually capable of.
As far as I'm concerned the KDF is welcome to this ship design with it's turn rate of 16, inflexible BOFF seating, lower than fleet/lockbox ship shield mod and no cloak or similar built-in survivability mechanism.
Every Tac focused Warbird outclasses this ship imo (T'Varo, Dehlan, Mogai, Ha'feh, etc.), as does nearly every single lockbox Escort/Destroyer.
where is the fun of play a fed/kdf tactical when the romulans tactical are far superior?
Possibly clinging to the same belief that one can have differences in faction play that are equally balanced for all parties and still offers distinctiveness while watching the nerf hammer windback?
Ussultimatum...you're a real Fed! Adm. Quinn is saying to me he's very pleased!:D
Roach...uhm...argh...I agree with you but...there is a but! It's so simple...having the same tactical benefit is no fun for anybody BUT...having a tactical benefit for the evul Empire is fun for you evul Klinguns only!:P
Sounds like you feds need your own tactical benefit then. Why not to have the fex elites changed rather than nerf another in hope that it will make fed gameplay better?
Sounds like you feds need your own tactical benefit then. Why not to have the fex elites changed rather than nerf another in hope that it will make fed gameplay better?
This would be a good angle to take if it was anyone other than Crpytic doing the balancing. Who knows what we'd end up with if we asked Cryptic to buff the fed elite phasers to a similar level as the KDF disruptors??
On the more acceptable end of the scale maybe it'd merely heal shields more, on the less acceptable end it might insta heal all shields to full. Unfortunately both are equally likely if we leave Cryptic to its own devices.
Beyond that there's the little matter of not wanting all other weapons to be made completely obsolete, probably the more important of the considerations.
Realistically, KDF should be more upset about Romulans than Feds are.
They get battle cloaks everywhere, gives battle cloak to feds, and their ships are generally very well designed (if at times might have some slightly less than ideal boff seating) - or they can use most of the available lockbox ships (excluding, IIRC, temporal vessels).
Well, problem with that my good sir is that ever since LoR hit, especially right at the beginning, any issues brought up by the KDF players (at least here on the forum) were generally met with the 'let's all jump on the KDF-hate bandwagon'.
With anything brought up being met with responses like, 'jeez, you just got a finished faction and you're STILL complaining.' or, 'if plasmonic leech isn't OP, then why are you defending it's use so much.' or, 'you've always had cloaks and battle cloaks, now it's time for someone else to have them', and other similar things.
The problem more lies with that the Klingon playerbase has never wanted most of the stuff given to em. It isn't that it isn't useful, or possibly OP, more that...that isn't what they wanted. All they wanted was to be a finished faction and given equal treatment to the Fed side. Instead they got stuff like...
The elite hangar pets (surprised no one has said much about those yet), the elite disruptors (I won't deny they are damn good weapons), consoles like AA, or Plasmonic leech, etc, along with cross-faction consoles and STF sets.
But there it all is, and there isn't much that can be done about it now. It was given to us, despite not it really being what we wanted.
The Klingon playerbase has only ever really wanted equality. Just when one thing is done, it's done equally for both sides. Finishing out the story and leveling was an excellent start, but considering just how much stuff has been given (and will be given) to the Federation side...things haven't really changed a whole lot in that regard.
Even then, the Klingon faction was only really finished because Romulans were being released. I'm not saying I'm not thankful for that, I'm just saying that the KDF side has always played second fiddle to the Feds, and now to the Romulans.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I don't want this weapon to come to Fedside. There is nothing worse than a defacto "best weapon" from a few standpoints.
1) It reduces options.
2) It allows your enemy to know what you're fielding. In this particular case, they know to slot ResB shields and Diburnium.
3) It creates a crutch.
If we stacked all of the available procs up, side by side. This proc is easily the best of the bunch.
It also does not cost you the standard Disruptor proc (still one of the best, imo). So you get what is, quite easily, the single best combination of procs in the game - 2 force multipliers!!
It is such a good proc that people are willing to accept only a single ACC mod to use it. That speaks volumes to me.
Romulans are us. They are Fed and KDF.
It's also pretty clear they have some massively OP items and mechanics atm.
As a performance focused player, I literally have zero reason to ever play any of my Fed tacs from this point forward.
Operative and Subterfuge traits have seen to this.
Realistically, KDF should be more upset about Romulans than Feds are.
They get battle cloaks everywhere, gives battle cloak to feds, and their ships are generally very well designed (if at times might have some slightly less than ideal boff seating) - or they can use most of the available lockbox ships (excluding, IIRC, temporal vessels).
I think many recognize why it was done, we just disagree with that decision.
Giving one faction OP gimmicky stuff (and then giving that away through proliferation) instead of giving them proper endgame ships is just a bad design framework.
Surely we can agree this has had a negative impact on the health of the FvK and KvK queues overtime?
Few serious PvPers will touch the Andorian Kumari Escort. :P
I pretty much dare anyone to attempt to fly the 5 Fore / 5 Tac Console ship. All it does is make you an easy target with less real teeth than people assume on face value and it has one of the worst BOFF arrangements in the entire game.
Honestly the Andorian escort was one of the biggest paper tigers released in a long while. It was way over-hyped for what this ship is actually capable of.
As far as I'm concerned the KDF is welcome to this ship design with it's turn rate of 16, inflexible BOFF seating, lower than fleet/lockbox ship shield mod and no cloak or similar built-in survivability mechanism.
Every Tac focused Warbird outclasses this ship imo (T'Varo, Dehlan, Mogai, Ha'feh, etc.), as does nearly every single lockbox Escort/Destroyer.
All reasonable statements made with fair consideration, none of which I can refute or care to. You are correct on all accounts.
To sum up how I am felling in general around the future of PvP. Less in this case is more. Less creep, less fizzle-bang-pop mechanics, and a honest return to PvP's golden era.
Wow, sorry to say this, but oh boy reading this thread is tiresome
It's a thread about balance, right? Elite fleet weapon balance to be precise.
So why don't you talk about balance?
Instead it's part pissing contest, part personal vendettas, part offtopic mambo jambo not to the point.
Why is the disruptor proc more powerful than the phaser proc?
Because it scales!
Was that so hard? I guess not.
The solution would be to either pick a different proc, or to change the numbers.
Non scaling procs should be higher than scaling ones, but of course this is a question of scale.
Balance around small scale and solo, or balance around 'large scale', maybe group PvP?
It's not an easy task and Cryptic isn't famous for balancing tact.
Choosing comparable (not the same! just comparable by potency) procs right from the start would've been smart.
Less in this case is more. Less creep, less fizzle-bang-pop mechanics, and a honest return to PvP's golden era.
100% this. I'm not a PvP pro, but from what I could gather so far, I really wonder why anyone could seriously ask himself why there are not more players PvP'ing in STO.
It's so much of an elitist knowledge and min-maxing game it's not even funny. Oh, and of course there's the ridiculous price manipulation of the exchange for anything PvP related..
With anything brought up being met with responses like, 'jeez, you just got a finished faction and you're STILL complaining.' or, 'if plasmonic leech isn't OP, then why are you defending it's use so much.' or, 'you've always had cloaks and battle cloaks, now it's time for someone else to have them', and other similar things.
I swear from this day forward, "tis be known far and wide that I hath foundeth thee Oracle of Meme!" :eek:
So Mimey2...are you confessing that you evuls have had many tactical benefits? I bet Roach doesn't agree with you!:D
Ive never disagreed that the KDF has tactical advantages different from the feds.
Only that Im tired of seeing the KDF nerfed due to the feds thinking they need the same advantage or its just not fair.
If balance is desired then move towards balance without placing the blaim on us as the excuse.
Are not feds capable withoit thinking all is greener on the otherside?
So Mimey2...are you confessing that you evuls have had many tactical benefits? I bet Roach doesn't agree with you!:D
I won't deny it. But it doesn't change anything. Yes, I admit that the Klingon side has it's own tactical advantages, but stuff like the Plasmonic Leech, these Elite Disruptors, etc etc, were stuff we never asked for.
Each side should have it's own advantages though, UNIQUE advantages. I'm not denying the advantages the KDF side has had, doesn't change the fact of what we actually wanted, equality.
If Roach doesn't agree, that's ok. I haven't always agreed with what he's said sometimes, it's the nature of being only mere mortals.
...Or at least that's what I'd say if I was mortal. Obviously I am a Q, and thus do not need to adhere to mortal standards. :P
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
How about upgrading the elite fleet phaser proc to be the exact opposite effect of its KDF disruptor counterpart? In other words, elite fleet phasers should proc a shield resist bonus of the exact opposing magnitude of the KDF disruptor.
Therefore, if a KDF disruptor places a 15 second -25% non-stacking shield resist debuff, then Elite Fleet Phasers should add a 15-second duration +25% non-stacking shield resists buff. If both procs activate on the same ship, then the net results cancel each other out at zero net resist change (until one buffs or debuffs expire earlier than the other).
This will still give KDF elite fleet disruptors an overall advantage since multiple targets can be affected using abilities like FAW and CSV, but it still sounds like a good start point.
How about upgrading the elite fleet phaser proc to be the exact opposite effect of its KDF disruptor counterpart? In other words, elite fleet phasers should proc a shield resist bonus of the exact opposing magnitude of the KDF disruptor.
Making the proc the opposite isn't the answer. The answer lies in correctly interpreting the difference between the two main factions.
Back before the game was launched, when everything at launch was being designed, the original team (some are still at Cryptic, some aren't) decided that Feds would go for a technological solution while KDF would go for a brute force solution. Hence the original phaser and disruptor procs: a subsystem disable and a damage resistance debuff.
Somewhere along the line, probably when the first C-Store ship universal consoles were being designed, this difference was re-interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to "Feds are defense and Klinks are offense". The result of this is a string of Fed uni consoles that suck and Fed "elite" weapons no one wants.
So I'd propose scrapping the defensive Elite Fleet Phasers and replacing them with weapons that have an offensive proc in the spirit of the technological solutions Feds seek. I'm thinking something like a mini chance-based version of Sensor Analysis that stacks up to three times and increases the damage the target takes by, say, +10 per stack, and just like SA is broken when you lose the target lock for whatever reason.
(I realize that's not all that different from the normal disruptor proc, sue me)
Making the proc the opposite isn't the answer. The answer lies in correctly interpreting the difference between the two main factions.
Back before the game was launched, when everything at launch was being designed, the original team (some are still at Cryptic, some aren't) decided that Feds would go for a technological solution while KDF would go for a brute force solution. Hence the original phaser and disruptor procs: a subsystem disable and a damage resistance debuff.
Somewhere along the line, probably when the first C-Store ship universal consoles were being designed, this difference was re-interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to "Feds are defense and Klinks are offense". The result of this is a string of Fed uni consoles that suck and Fed "elite" weapons no one wants.
So I'd propose scrapping the defensive Elite Fleet Phasers and replacing them with weapons that have an offensive proc in the spirit of the technological solutions Feds seek. I'm thinking something like a mini chance-based version of Sensor Analysis that stacks up to three times and increases the damage the target takes by, say, +10 per stack, and just like SA is broken when you lose the target lock for whatever reason.
(I realize that's not all that different from the normal disruptor proc, sue me)
Making the proc the opposite isn't the answer. The answer lies in correctly interpreting the difference between the two main factions.
Back before the game was launched, when everything at launch was being designed, the original team (some are still at Cryptic, some aren't) decided that Feds would go for a technological solution while KDF would go for a brute force solution. Hence the original phaser and disruptor procs: a subsystem disable and a damage resistance debuff.
Somewhere along the line, probably when the first C-Store ship universal consoles were being designed, this difference was re-interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to "Feds are defense and Klinks are offense". The result of this is a string of Fed uni consoles that suck and Fed "elite" weapons no one wants.
So I'd propose scrapping the defensive Elite Fleet Phasers and replacing them with weapons that have an offensive proc in the spirit of the technological solutions Feds seek. I'm thinking something like a mini chance-based version of Sensor Analysis that stacks up to three times and increases the damage the target takes by, say, +10 per stack, and just like SA is broken when you lose the target lock for whatever reason.
(I realize that's not all that different from the normal disruptor proc, sue me)
Why propose reinventing the wheel, especially when that suggestion goes against current established faction weapon designs that you also summarized?
Here is a better solution: Give elite fleet phasers phasers a small bonus kinetic damage component... perhaps +5% of normal phaser damage dealt. This damage will have virtually no effect on raised shields but will deal better hull damage.
KDF Elite Disruptor weapons score bonus damage against shields, so giving Elite Fleet Phasers bonus hull damage doesn't sound too unreasonable.
From a canon standpoint, disruptor are pure energy weapons that basically break molecular bonds inflict damage. Phasers are part energy, part particle beam, so giving them a kinetic damage component also stays true to Star Trek tech (minor trivia, nothing important).
Comments
to now (post #92)
You have 6 posts, or 50% of all posts since that moment are yours.
So from my perspective, its more like this.
With those 6 posts, I replied to 5 different people.
With your 3 posts (4 if I include this one), you've replied to 1 person.
So maybe it's like...creepy!
Repeat after me, I am in control of my emotions.
Now stop fighting, you're scaring the kids. Especially the soulless gaze of the kid in that last commercial, that's going to haunt me.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Well, last time hobos fought pandas we randomly met y'all in the queue a few days ago and it was a fairly one-sided victory for hobos (I was using my Recluse healer, Kratom Adu). There's a very wide range in skill on hobos, but we have a pretty decent premade team when all of the right people are on at the same time. We'd be even better if we had a teamspeak server :x
scoreboard
video of hobos vs pandas
@DevolvedOne
There is:
Elite Disruptors
Tachyon Burst thing from one of the Andorian escorts
Tachyon Mines outta the lobi store.
I think that is about it, right?
Two of those things are better on an escort, Tachyon Burst requires you to use the Wing cannons and the console, and the tachyon mines can be used with DPB. You need to spec into flow caps still, that is true, but it's still the fact that a better shield draining build can be made with an escort with a tac then a dedicated science can.
If some of the BOFF abilities (whether by themselves or with a DOFF) would also give some negative shield resist debuffs, that might go a long way to not making these quite so insane by comparison, and either side could easily run 'shield strippers' in their own way.
There's just tons of ways to effortlessly get shield resist and such, but few ways to weaken them aside from being SNB'd and alpha'd, aka death.
tachyon burst cant be moved to other ships ,tachyon mines are pretty lol (i think they remove 2% shield resistence ...they dont do much against people who know how to spec) and elite disruptors are in klinky domain.
at least everyone has cloak now ,so shields are down
^This. Feds get the best ships, the widest variety of ships, and now most of the KDF's best consoles and gear, and still they cry when the KDF gets one item that's better than theirs.
Has no one else noticed this? Feds get the KDF tricks but KDF barely gets anything in return. You'd think after 20 unique ships and abilities the Feds would finally be satisfied.
I suspect that once the Feds have either nerfed the disruptor into uselessness or somehow acquired it for themselves, and once they have ace. assi. they will turn their attention to seeing the Romulans nuted, the latter of which is already happening.
Most of the anti-Rommie sentiment is coming from primarily Feds. Been long enough in the game to know handles. While some of it has merit, much of it comes from ulterior motives of wanted Feds to remain in the limelight. Its like literally watching a favorite child throw a tantrum when a young sibling receives even modest attention.
Feds refuse to recognize the fact that the scale of balance in Fed. vs. KDF ships favors the Fed line-up.
They refuse to even think that what KDF ships lack in terms of firepower Cryptic have tried to balance in terms of other things.
So for example, the Andorian Escort gets 5-fore weapons and 5-tac consoles (one of five ships that can do this!) + special weapons at the expense of reduced durability. The KDF does not even have any Raiders on the c-store for Tier 5! The only c-store escort for KDF is a vanity item no serious PvP will go near to.
The KDF just don't have the ability to leverage that firepower.
Hence, why we should have the disruptors.
Give the KDF more ships of equal footing to the Fed escorts and other ships, and then there will be no reason why the KDF should have them. But, still too this day long past it's due, Feds STILL argue that the outdated BOP has an unfair advantage over Fed escorts. They STILL cling to the belief that the battlecruiser is a valid justification for want. That is coveting by its very nature.
But, if history has proven anything to me, the disruptors will eventually be given to Feds, and when they do have everything unique of the KDF, they will inundate the KDF forums with gloat.
Common guys the Op summed it up nicely. OP is not the issue, the decision not to grind hax panda base is. One week after feds get EHB, the elite disruptor are in line. This from the same guys bringing you constant leech and siphon drones QQ.
Seriously Naz, if you do what you do in the name of balance, give some nerf love to both sides, including FED only and lockbox toys. Otherwise start grinding your base like all the other KDF fleets.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Hi Drk,
Actually...
I don't want this weapon to come to Fedside. There is nothing worse than a defacto "best weapon" from a few standpoints.
1) It reduces options.
2) It allows your enemy to know what you're fielding. In this particular case, they know to slot ResB shields and Diburnium.
3) It creates a crutch.
If we stacked all of the available procs up, side by side. This proc is easily the best of the bunch.
It also does not cost you the standard Disruptor proc (still one of the best, imo). So you get what is, quite easily, the single best combination of procs in the game - 2 force multipliers!!
It is such a good proc that people are willing to accept only a single ACC mod to use it. That speaks volumes to me.
Romulans are us. They are Fed and KDF.
It's also pretty clear they have some massively OP items and mechanics atm.
As a performance focused player, I literally have zero reason to ever play any of my Fed tacs from this point forward.
Operative and Subterfuge traits have seen to this.
Realistically, KDF should be more upset about Romulans than Feds are.
They get battle cloaks everywhere, gives battle cloak to feds, and their ships are generally very well designed (if at times might have some slightly less than ideal boff seating) - or they can use most of the available lockbox ships (excluding, IIRC, temporal vessels).
I think many recognize why it was done, we just disagree with that decision.
Giving one faction OP gimmicky stuff (and then giving that away through proliferation) instead of giving them proper endgame ships is just a bad design framework.
Surely we can agree this has had a negative impact on the health of the FvK and KvK queues overtime?
Few serious PvPers will touch the Andorian Kumari Escort. :P
I pretty much dare anyone to attempt to fly the 5 Fore / 5 Tac Console ship. All it does is make you an easy target with less real teeth than people assume on face value and it has one of the worst BOFF arrangements in the entire game.
Honestly the Andorian escort was one of the biggest paper tigers released in a long while. It was way over-hyped for what this ship is actually capable of.
As far as I'm concerned the KDF is welcome to this ship design with it's turn rate of 16, inflexible BOFF seating, lower than fleet/lockbox ship shield mod and no cloak or similar built-in survivability mechanism.
Every Tac focused Warbird outclasses this ship imo (T'Varo, Dehlan, Mogai, Ha'feh, etc.), as does nearly every single lockbox Escort/Destroyer.
R.I.P
where is the fun of play a fed/kdf tactical when the romulans tactical are far superior?
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
R.I.P
Sounds like you feds need your own tactical benefit then. Why not to have the fex elites changed rather than nerf another in hope that it will make fed gameplay better?
R.I.P
This would be a good angle to take if it was anyone other than Crpytic doing the balancing. Who knows what we'd end up with if we asked Cryptic to buff the fed elite phasers to a similar level as the KDF disruptors??
On the more acceptable end of the scale maybe it'd merely heal shields more, on the less acceptable end it might insta heal all shields to full. Unfortunately both are equally likely if we leave Cryptic to its own devices.
Beyond that there's the little matter of not wanting all other weapons to be made completely obsolete, probably the more important of the considerations.
Well, problem with that my good sir is that ever since LoR hit, especially right at the beginning, any issues brought up by the KDF players (at least here on the forum) were generally met with the 'let's all jump on the KDF-hate bandwagon'.
With anything brought up being met with responses like, 'jeez, you just got a finished faction and you're STILL complaining.' or, 'if plasmonic leech isn't OP, then why are you defending it's use so much.' or, 'you've always had cloaks and battle cloaks, now it's time for someone else to have them', and other similar things.
The problem more lies with that the Klingon playerbase has never wanted most of the stuff given to em. It isn't that it isn't useful, or possibly OP, more that...that isn't what they wanted. All they wanted was to be a finished faction and given equal treatment to the Fed side. Instead they got stuff like...
The elite hangar pets (surprised no one has said much about those yet), the elite disruptors (I won't deny they are damn good weapons), consoles like AA, or Plasmonic leech, etc, along with cross-faction consoles and STF sets.
But there it all is, and there isn't much that can be done about it now. It was given to us, despite not it really being what we wanted.
The Klingon playerbase has only ever really wanted equality. Just when one thing is done, it's done equally for both sides. Finishing out the story and leveling was an excellent start, but considering just how much stuff has been given (and will be given) to the Federation side...things haven't really changed a whole lot in that regard.
Even then, the Klingon faction was only really finished because Romulans were being released. I'm not saying I'm not thankful for that, I'm just saying that the KDF side has always played second fiddle to the Feds, and now to the Romulans.
All reasonable statements made with fair consideration, none of which I can refute or care to. You are correct on all accounts.
To sum up how I am felling in general around the future of PvP. Less in this case is more. Less creep, less fizzle-bang-pop mechanics, and a honest return to PvP's golden era.
It's a thread about balance, right? Elite fleet weapon balance to be precise.
So why don't you talk about balance?
Instead it's part pissing contest, part personal vendettas, part offtopic mambo jambo not to the point.
Why is the disruptor proc more powerful than the phaser proc?
Because it scales!
Was that so hard? I guess not.
The solution would be to either pick a different proc, or to change the numbers.
Non scaling procs should be higher than scaling ones, but of course this is a question of scale.
Balance around small scale and solo, or balance around 'large scale', maybe group PvP?
It's not an easy task and Cryptic isn't famous for balancing tact.
Choosing comparable (not the same! just comparable by potency) procs right from the start would've been smart.
-edit-
I'd like to add a quote: 100% this. I'm not a PvP pro, but from what I could gather so far, I really wonder why anyone could seriously ask himself why there are not more players PvP'ing in STO.
It's so much of an elitist knowledge and min-maxing game it's not even funny. Oh, and of course there's the ridiculous price manipulation of the exchange for anything PvP related..
I swear from this day forward, "tis be known far and wide that I hath foundeth thee Oracle of Meme!" :eek:
Cute oracles, please. Its always better to get bad news from a cute oracle.
"Herucles, you shall have twelve impossible tasks to acomplish......" says the oracle.
"Huh, what ever. Im cool." sayeth Heracles as his gaze is afixed on the oracles boddice, "So, how you doing?"
R.I.P
Ive never disagreed that the KDF has tactical advantages different from the feds.
Only that Im tired of seeing the KDF nerfed due to the feds thinking they need the same advantage or its just not fair.
If balance is desired then move towards balance without placing the blaim on us as the excuse.
Are not feds capable withoit thinking all is greener on the otherside?
R.I.P
I won't deny it. But it doesn't change anything. Yes, I admit that the Klingon side has it's own tactical advantages, but stuff like the Plasmonic Leech, these Elite Disruptors, etc etc, were stuff we never asked for.
Each side should have it's own advantages though, UNIQUE advantages. I'm not denying the advantages the KDF side has had, doesn't change the fact of what we actually wanted, equality.
If Roach doesn't agree, that's ok. I haven't always agreed with what he's said sometimes, it's the nature of being only mere mortals.
...Or at least that's what I'd say if I was mortal. Obviously I am a Q, and thus do not need to adhere to mortal standards. :P
Lol. :P
Therefore, if a KDF disruptor places a 15 second -25% non-stacking shield resist debuff, then Elite Fleet Phasers should add a 15-second duration +25% non-stacking shield resists buff. If both procs activate on the same ship, then the net results cancel each other out at zero net resist change (until one buffs or debuffs expire earlier than the other).
This will still give KDF elite fleet disruptors an overall advantage since multiple targets can be affected using abilities like FAW and CSV, but it still sounds like a good start point.
No more OP than the tactical benefits the feds enjoy. Its still a grass in greener arguement.
R.I.P
Making the proc the opposite isn't the answer. The answer lies in correctly interpreting the difference between the two main factions.
Back before the game was launched, when everything at launch was being designed, the original team (some are still at Cryptic, some aren't) decided that Feds would go for a technological solution while KDF would go for a brute force solution. Hence the original phaser and disruptor procs: a subsystem disable and a damage resistance debuff.
Somewhere along the line, probably when the first C-Store ship universal consoles were being designed, this difference was re-interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to "Feds are defense and Klinks are offense". The result of this is a string of Fed uni consoles that suck and Fed "elite" weapons no one wants.
So I'd propose scrapping the defensive Elite Fleet Phasers and replacing them with weapons that have an offensive proc in the spirit of the technological solutions Feds seek. I'm thinking something like a mini chance-based version of Sensor Analysis that stacks up to three times and increases the damage the target takes by, say, +10 per stack, and just like SA is broken when you lose the target lock for whatever reason.
(I realize that's not all that different from the normal disruptor proc, sue me)
I like that idea.
R.I.P
Why propose reinventing the wheel, especially when that suggestion goes against current established faction weapon designs that you also summarized?
Here is a better solution: Give elite fleet phasers phasers a small bonus kinetic damage component... perhaps +5% of normal phaser damage dealt. This damage will have virtually no effect on raised shields but will deal better hull damage.
KDF Elite Disruptor weapons score bonus damage against shields, so giving Elite Fleet Phasers bonus hull damage doesn't sound too unreasonable.
From a canon standpoint, disruptor are pure energy weapons that basically break molecular bonds inflict damage. Phasers are part energy, part particle beam, so giving them a kinetic damage component also stays true to Star Trek tech (minor trivia, nothing important).