Can that death be blamed on the Elite disruptors though or just bleed-thru builds doing what they do?
That response was towards, what if elite phasers + valdore console. From elite disrupotrs u die without shields. Since they debuff your shield resist. Disruptor proc is applied to hull regularly. It is a powerful combo if u know what to do.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
That response was towards, what if elite phasers + valdore console. From elite disrupotrs u die without shields. Since they debuff your shield resist. Disruptor proc is applied to hull regularly. It is a powerful combo if u know what to do.
The elite fleet space phaser numbers are not good. 2.5% proc rate at about +70 shield regen per proc. This translates to an average +1.75 shield regen per elite fleet phaser, or roughly 14 shields healed per full 8-weapon volley. Compare these to KDF elite disruptor's 25% shield resist where only 1 proc is needed and lasts a full 15 seconds. The above is akin to Feds getting a butter knife in a gun fight with the KDF.
You (most only you) seemed to forgot that Phasers also carry a systems disable proc .
Perhaps in the eyes of Cryptic it is that proc + the small shield heal = the KDF disruptors .
Until both Fed and KDF fleet weapons are matched up more evenly, end game FvK PVP queues will remain at 1+ hour wait times.
I have no problem with the "evenly" bit , but I want your phaser disable proc for my disruptors .
Seriously .
Gimme !
Oh and you might want to check out the queues , as pvp be booming yo ... , so if the rest of your info is as reliable as your ideas about current state of pvp ... .
Suggestion: I think the Elite KDF Disruptor proc should have been made into a -2.5 shield resist debuff that can stack up to 5x, while the Elite Fed Phasers should have a +2.5 shield resist buff per proc, 5x max stack. This way, their effects are gradual and completely offset each other on a 1-1 basis.
But not on a 5v5 basis. Five guys running elite disruptors could then focus fire on a target to increase the proc rate 500%, while the federation players would not be able combine the effects of their shield resistance procs on one team mate.
That being said, I like your idea and it's certainly far better than what we have now. Perhaps letting the KDF elite weapons retain a smaller advantage over the fed ones would appease the whiners who think they need special consideration.
But not on a 5v5 basis. Five guys running elite disruptors could then focus fire on a target to increase the proc rate 500%, while the federation players would not be able combine the effects of their shield resistance procs on one team mate.
That being said, I like your idea and it's certainly far better than what we have now. Perhaps letting the KDF elite weapons retain a smaller advantage over the fed ones would appease the whiners who think they need special consideration.
If the elite disruptor debuff stack caps at 5x regardless of the source, then the shield resist debuff still caps off that -2.5 x 5 = -12.5% shield resist debuff -- this is still only half the resist debuff of the current KDF elite disruptor procs and more than acceptable
As FvK match drags on, both sides will have comparable resist stacks and debuffs present to balance each other out.
Well KDF doesn't have 5 fore weapon ships or 5 tac console faction ships unless counting Romulans, this will be a lot more OP on teams with Kumari, Fleet AE and Fleet Defiants.
Um... My Bortasqu' Tactical would like to disagree with your "KDS doesn't have 5 tac console faction ships" contention.
Honestly though I think the truth here is that these disruptors can be a bit intensely powerful when combined with Disruptor requiring vessels like the Bortasqu', Guramba, Pegh'qu and such. However... There is SUCH disbalance in PvP that I am really not sure changing this one thing is really going to fix the massive mountain of issues.
Um... My Bortasqu' Tactical would like to disagree with your "KDS doesn't have 5 tac console faction ships" contention.
Honestly though I think the truth here is that these disruptors can be a bit intensely powerful when combined with Disruptor requiring vessels like the Bortasqu', Guramba, Pegh'qu and such. However... There is SUCH disbalance in PvP that I am really not sure changing this one thing is really going to fix the massive mountain of issues.
Especially considering how few people have access to these weapons, and how few of those people actually PvP.
You (most only you) seemed to forgot that Phasers also carry a systems disable proc .
Perhaps in the eyes of Cryptic it is that proc + the small shield heal = the KDF disruptors .
I have no problem with the "evenly" bit , but I want your phaser disable proc for my disruptors .
Seriously .
Gimme !
...<SNIP>...
Are you aware that phaser disable procs are on a 10sec cool down timer but last 5 seconds at most? It gets much shorter with target spec'd power insulators. KHG and Adapted MACO hot-restart engine disables, and the new Nukura space set hot-restarts weapon subsystems after 4 sec. Engineering Team, EPTx, Batteries, and Red Matter Capacitor covers everything else. KDF disruptor breach easily outperforms phaser subsystem disables as a result -- there is no way to remove disruptor breach once it proc's, but phaser procs are easily countered as noted above.
None of my current high end Fed ship builds use Phasers -- this coming from someone who has a full set of elite space phasers just sitting in storage due to higher DPS options being so readily available.
Oh, come on! Evul Klinguns firing fleet disruptors and moar evul KDF Romulans with all their opness when fighting together are really too powerful for we poor Feds!
This is happening in the queues and at Ker'rat!
So, we're not complaining...only getting angry!:mad:
But you also have Rommies at your side. And I think Feds and Rommies are the only two factions with 5-tac console escorts, and if I am not mistaken the Feds have a few of them. Sooooooo... I guess, what I am trying to say is that...
But you also have Rommies at your side. And I think Feds and Rommies are the only two factions with 5-tac console escorts, and if I am not mistaken the Feds have a few of them. Sooooooo... I guess, what I am trying to say is that...
We're even. :P
Feds need a battle cloak for that statement to be accurate. At this pace, it's only a matter of time
Feds need a battle cloak for that statement to be accurate. At this pace, it's only a matter of time
And then somebody in the KDF will point out that the Romies all have Battle cloaks and we KDF need all BCs to be even then the feds will complain and get all cloaking but it will kot be battle cloaks so we all eventually end up back here arguing over why the feds do or do not deserve or are entitled to battle cloaks and how it leads to a more vanilla, looknat me Im spaceguy Jack, average joe player with no identity only to realize that STO has lost all identity.
Was merely pointing out the ugly truth that regardless of faction, the "I need" moments never go away and will always plaque us regardless of what steps are taken as long as players always see the grass as greenier on the other side.
All I know is that if the average player can't at least be competitive in a FvK then what's the point of playing them. I just spent most of the morning getting punked. We Feds ended up lucky to defend our own base in a capture and hold vs Klingons. The only way your going to get more people to play PvP is to allow players a chance to be competitive. Perhaps rooms where only you can only join as an individual so that you don't get a pre-made team vs a pick-up team.
I don't care how you do that, but there has to be a PvP alternative for the average player, in my opinion.
All I know is that if the average player can't at least be competitive in a FvK then what's the point of playing them. I just spent most of the morning getting punked. We Feds ended up lucky to defend our own base in a capture and hold vs Klingons. The only way your going to get more people to play PvP is to allow players a chance to be competitive. Perhaps rooms where only you can only join as an individual so that you don't get a pre-made team vs a pick-up team.
I don't care how you do that, but there has to be a PvP alternative for the average player, in my opinion.
Yep, if a premade with proper cross healing still gets shields chewed to bits (but still wins) by the combined force of Elite Disruptor use, then a pug has almost no chance.
Suuuure! the 5 tac console, 5% moar weapons damage only, an i-win button, right?:rolleyes:
Soooooo...I'm suuuure...you're wrong!:D
Your Battle Cruisers with the new EPtE and the RCS console are really war beasts able to use effectively their DHC, while our Cruisers are a little more agile but an easy target as before.
This is frustrating for the Tac Fed Captains...we want a powerful Cruiser, a very offensive vessel no more relegated in a tanking healing role.
Think about it Cryptic...and think carefully...we Feds are many...and angry...DO the right thing for a more balanced game!
You should be able to do this with with the Galaxy X, just load up EpTe and RCS, maybe some Deutrium in a device slot.
I'd personally go with an A2B build. Plus you can cloak like a battle cruiser.
those who surivive via capacitance cell and fly 5k from a sci vessel thinking we dont see you ? ah those! i know them!
Mmm, I use capacitance cell as an extra getaway console, but I know better than to linger too close to anything for too long, lest I be discovered. People doing that deserve to be discovered and blasted to bits. . .maybe they'll learn their lesson and stop embarrassing fellow BoP pilots
As for the issue of Elite Phasers versus Elite Disruptors. . .
Balance the factions and their ship lineups first, THEN worry about balancing the finer details. Whether or not Federation die-hards want to realize it, they have the superior ship lineup, especially now that they have Romulan allies to throw in as well. When you factor in Fed-Rom ships, the Federation lineup essentially has no weaknesses. The Romulan battlecruisers/attack cruisers compensate for the lack of burst DPS on the part of Federation cruisers, and Federation escorts remain the best in the game, as well as the science ships.
Instead of trying to keep the KDF sub-par and remove any advantages we might happen gain (such as this Elite Fleet weapons one), how about eliminating the need for us to have said advantages to counter the fact that our ship lineup is in overall not as good as the Federation/Romulan one? Give us a strong science ship line that can possibly manage to match the Federation's options, and give us more raptors/destroyers that match what the Federation offers. We might be a little less resistant to having certain advantages taken away, then, if the Federation gives up a few of its own 'advantages'. Most of the reason we resisted having our consoles turned over to the Federation (in my opinion, anyways) was because those 'better' consoles helped compensate for the fact that our raptors/destroyers aren't as good, our science ships are pisspoor compared to Federation options, and our BoPs are flexible but inherently limited.
Timezarg, your debating balance with a fantasy culture that is known for tearing down the strong to bolstier the weak rather than build of the weak to be able the challenge the strong on equal terms.
Its a process so prevalent for the feds in the IP that it has been a focus of some fan-fictions.
I dont believe they know just how good they really have it and continue this course put of some perception of entitlement.
entitlement my a** the weapons are ridiculously imbalanced and you and everyone else knows it.
knews flash kdf fanboi you're human. matter of fact its highly likely you don't even play a klingon toon except for farming. you play a kdf allied Alien u poser.
entitlement my a** the weapons are ridiculously imbalanced and you and everyone else knows it.
knews flash kdf fanboi you're human. matter of fact its highly likely you don't even play a klingon toon except for farming. you play a kdf allied Alien u poser.
lets address the Federation Player sense of Entitlement shall we ?
1. Feds Have the largest choice pool for ships and a dedicated line of science ships for advancing through the levels... more costume options for those ships and generally a larger stable of ships to choose from that they do not have to buy from the C-store, KDF has a smaller pool of ships to choose from less costume options and NO dedicated Science ship until you get to the Vo'Quv/Varanus (identical to the Vulcan Science ship in all but turn rate which because of fed players the Vulcan science ships turn rate got buffed while the varanus stayed at its current level)
2. KDF has the Vo'Quv, and Karfi Carriers fed players complain and eventually get the Atrox, Armatage, and Vesta.....
3. the KDF have a few cool consoles (subspace jumper, isometric charge, graviton pulse, bio-neural warhead, plasmonic leech, just to name a few) Feds complain that its unfair and that they should also have these consoles... guess what everyone I listed is available to the fed side cheaper than for the KDF to aquire them....
4. the KDF BoP has Battlecloak and most every other non c-store kdf ship has cloak.... Fed Players cry foul and unfair and then the Defiant retrofit gets a cloaking console (its not battlecloak but its a move in that direction) and the Galaxy X with its cloak, and NOW with the inclusion of the romulans this is a back door and under the table way to give the Federation the Battlecloak...
5. (edited cause I forgot something) and now lets look at the bundle ships that have arrived. the Oddysey 3-pack(fed) Vesta 3-pack (fed) Kumari 3-pack (fed) Bortasque 3-pack (kdf) Scimitar 3-pack (Romulan)
so that is 12-15 more ships added to the feds while the KDF got 3-6.....
so tell me again how the sense of entitlement that the feds have is bull ?
don't presume to tell me that the Fed Players do not have a sense of entitlement I think the record of the last 18 months speaks for itself... leave these Elite Fleet Disruptors alone... if you are a fed player and encountering these weapons put on your big boy knickers and suck it up buttercup, adapt and overcome or just stop playing in PVP
Admittedly these weapons may be OP but since you Feds have everything else KDF now, we still need something that is distinctly ours to keep you on your toes and make you EARN those PVP victories you so gallantly thump your chest over
oh and FYI, I Play a Klingon KDF Carrier Science Captain... you will find me in PVP Queues as N'talia Daughter of Kor, or Xi'Zzin (romulan kdf aligned)
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
lets address the Federation Player sense of Entitlement shall we ?
1. Feds Have the largest choice pool for ships and a dedicated line of science ships for advancing through the levels... more costume options for those ships and generally a larger stable of ships to choose from that they do not have to buy from the C-store, KDF has a smaller pool of ships to choose from less costume options and NO dedicated Science ship until you get to the Vo'Quv/Varanus (identical to the Vulcan Science ship in all but turn rate which because of fed players the Vulcan science ships turn rate got buffed while the varanus stayed at its current level)
2. KDF has the Vo'Quv, and Karfi Carriers fed players complain and eventually get the Atrox, Armatage, and Vesta.....
3. the KDF have a few cool consoles (subspace jumper, isometric charge, graviton pulse, bio-neural warhead, plasmonic leech, just to name a few) Feds complain that its unfair and that they should also have these consoles... guess what everyone I listed is available to the fed side cheaper than for the KDF to aquire them....
4. the KDF BoP has Battlecloak and most every other non c-store kdf ship has cloak.... Fed Players cry foul and unfair and then the Defiant retrofit gets a cloaking console (its not battlecloak but its a move in that direction) and the Galaxy X with its cloak, and NOW with the inclusion of the romulans this is a back door and under the table way to give the Federation the Battlecloak...
so tell me again how the sense of entitlement that the feds have is bull ?
don't presume to tell me that the Fed Players do not have a sense of entitlement I think the record of the last 18 months speaks for itself... leave these Elite Fleet Disruptors alone... if you are a fed player and encountering these weapons put on your big boy knickers and suck it up buttercup, adapt and overcome or just stop playing in PVP
Admittedly these weapons may be OP but since you Feds have everything else KDF now, we still need something that is distinctly ours to keep you on your toes and make you EARN those PVP victories you so gallantly thump your chest over
oh and FYI, I Play a Klingon KDF Carrier Science Captain... you will find me in PVP Queues as N'talia Daughter of Kor, or Xi'Zzin (romulan kdf aligned)
. **completely ignores entire argumentative and misdirectional response..
Comments
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
My apolgises. I missunderstood the statement.
R.I.P
You (most only you) seemed to forgot that Phasers also carry a systems disable proc .
Perhaps in the eyes of Cryptic it is that proc + the small shield heal = the KDF disruptors .
I have no problem with the "evenly" bit , but I want your phaser disable proc for my disruptors .
Seriously .
Gimme !
Oh and you might want to check out the queues , as pvp be booming yo ... , so if the rest of your info is as reliable as your ideas about current state of pvp ... .
But not on a 5v5 basis. Five guys running elite disruptors could then focus fire on a target to increase the proc rate 500%, while the federation players would not be able combine the effects of their shield resistance procs on one team mate.
That being said, I like your idea and it's certainly far better than what we have now. Perhaps letting the KDF elite weapons retain a smaller advantage over the fed ones would appease the whiners who think they need special consideration.
If the elite disruptor debuff stack caps at 5x regardless of the source, then the shield resist debuff still caps off that -2.5 x 5 = -12.5% shield resist debuff -- this is still only half the resist debuff of the current KDF elite disruptor procs and more than acceptable
As FvK match drags on, both sides will have comparable resist stacks and debuffs present to balance each other out.
Um... My Bortasqu' Tactical would like to disagree with your "KDS doesn't have 5 tac console faction ships" contention.
Honestly though I think the truth here is that these disruptors can be a bit intensely powerful when combined with Disruptor requiring vessels like the Bortasqu', Guramba, Pegh'qu and such. However... There is SUCH disbalance in PvP that I am really not sure changing this one thing is really going to fix the massive mountain of issues.
Especially considering how few people have access to these weapons, and how few of those people actually PvP.
Are you aware that phaser disable procs are on a 10sec cool down timer but last 5 seconds at most? It gets much shorter with target spec'd power insulators. KHG and Adapted MACO hot-restart engine disables, and the new Nukura space set hot-restarts weapon subsystems after 4 sec. Engineering Team, EPTx, Batteries, and Red Matter Capacitor covers everything else. KDF disruptor breach easily outperforms phaser subsystem disables as a result -- there is no way to remove disruptor breach once it proc's, but phaser procs are easily countered as noted above.
None of my current high end Fed ship builds use Phasers -- this coming from someone who has a full set of elite space phasers just sitting in storage due to higher DPS options being so readily available.
Yep, this needs to be nerfed. KDF was already overpowered.
Would you mind elaborating why you perceive the KDF to be already overpowered?
And why not? They just introduced a whole faction considered to be OP, so why is the KDF elite ruptors such a big deal?
R.I.P
Frankly in light of some of the OP complaints about Romulans I dont see how we KDF can still hold the moniker of OP.
R.I.P
But you also have Rommies at your side. And I think Feds and Rommies are the only two factions with 5-tac console escorts, and if I am not mistaken the Feds have a few of them. Sooooooo... I guess, what I am trying to say is that...
We're even. :P
Feds need a battle cloak for that statement to be accurate. At this pace, it's only a matter of time
And then somebody in the KDF will point out that the Romies all have Battle cloaks and we KDF need all BCs to be even then the feds will complain and get all cloaking but it will kot be battle cloaks so we all eventually end up back here arguing over why the feds do or do not deserve or are entitled to battle cloaks and how it leads to a more vanilla, looknat me Im spaceguy Jack, average joe player with no identity only to realize that STO has lost all identity.
Sounds awesome. Cant wait.
R.I.P
R.I.P
I don't care how you do that, but there has to be a PvP alternative for the average player, in my opinion.
Yep, if a premade with proper cross healing still gets shields chewed to bits (but still wins) by the combined force of Elite Disruptor use, then a pug has almost no chance.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
You should be able to do this with with the Galaxy X, just load up EpTe and RCS, maybe some Deutrium in a device slot.
I'd personally go with an A2B build. Plus you can cloak like a battle cruiser.
Mmm, I use capacitance cell as an extra getaway console, but I know better than to linger too close to anything for too long, lest I be discovered. People doing that deserve to be discovered and blasted to bits. . .maybe they'll learn their lesson and stop embarrassing fellow BoP pilots
Balance the factions and their ship lineups first, THEN worry about balancing the finer details. Whether or not Federation die-hards want to realize it, they have the superior ship lineup, especially now that they have Romulan allies to throw in as well. When you factor in Fed-Rom ships, the Federation lineup essentially has no weaknesses. The Romulan battlecruisers/attack cruisers compensate for the lack of burst DPS on the part of Federation cruisers, and Federation escorts remain the best in the game, as well as the science ships.
Instead of trying to keep the KDF sub-par and remove any advantages we might happen gain (such as this Elite Fleet weapons one), how about eliminating the need for us to have said advantages to counter the fact that our ship lineup is in overall not as good as the Federation/Romulan one? Give us a strong science ship line that can possibly manage to match the Federation's options, and give us more raptors/destroyers that match what the Federation offers. We might be a little less resistant to having certain advantages taken away, then, if the Federation gives up a few of its own 'advantages'. Most of the reason we resisted having our consoles turned over to the Federation (in my opinion, anyways) was because those 'better' consoles helped compensate for the fact that our raptors/destroyers aren't as good, our science ships are pisspoor compared to Federation options, and our BoPs are flexible but inherently limited.
Its a process so prevalent for the feds in the IP that it has been a focus of some fan-fictions.
I dont believe they know just how good they really have it and continue this course put of some perception of entitlement.
R.I.P
knews flash kdf fanboi you're human. matter of fact its highly likely you don't even play a klingon toon except for farming. you play a kdf allied Alien u poser.
lets address the Federation Player sense of Entitlement shall we ?
1. Feds Have the largest choice pool for ships and a dedicated line of science ships for advancing through the levels... more costume options for those ships and generally a larger stable of ships to choose from that they do not have to buy from the C-store, KDF has a smaller pool of ships to choose from less costume options and NO dedicated Science ship until you get to the Vo'Quv/Varanus (identical to the Vulcan Science ship in all but turn rate which because of fed players the Vulcan science ships turn rate got buffed while the varanus stayed at its current level)
2. KDF has the Vo'Quv, and Karfi Carriers fed players complain and eventually get the Atrox, Armatage, and Vesta.....
3. the KDF have a few cool consoles (subspace jumper, isometric charge, graviton pulse, bio-neural warhead, plasmonic leech, just to name a few) Feds complain that its unfair and that they should also have these consoles... guess what everyone I listed is available to the fed side cheaper than for the KDF to aquire them....
4. the KDF BoP has Battlecloak and most every other non c-store kdf ship has cloak.... Fed Players cry foul and unfair and then the Defiant retrofit gets a cloaking console (its not battlecloak but its a move in that direction) and the Galaxy X with its cloak, and NOW with the inclusion of the romulans this is a back door and under the table way to give the Federation the Battlecloak...
5. (edited cause I forgot something) and now lets look at the bundle ships that have arrived. the Oddysey 3-pack(fed) Vesta 3-pack (fed) Kumari 3-pack (fed) Bortasque 3-pack (kdf) Scimitar 3-pack (Romulan)
so that is 12-15 more ships added to the feds while the KDF got 3-6.....
so tell me again how the sense of entitlement that the feds have is bull ?
don't presume to tell me that the Fed Players do not have a sense of entitlement I think the record of the last 18 months speaks for itself... leave these Elite Fleet Disruptors alone... if you are a fed player and encountering these weapons put on your big boy knickers and suck it up buttercup, adapt and overcome or just stop playing in PVP
Admittedly these weapons may be OP but since you Feds have everything else KDF now, we still need something that is distinctly ours to keep you on your toes and make you EARN those PVP victories you so gallantly thump your chest over
oh and FYI, I Play a Klingon KDF Carrier Science Captain... you will find me in PVP Queues as N'talia Daughter of Kor, or Xi'Zzin (romulan kdf aligned)
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
. **completely ignores entire argumentative and misdirectional response..
Where did you learn reading comprehension ?