#1) the standard disruptor proc is a 2.5% chance for a -10% hull resist reduction.
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
Yes. It does.
The point is that the procs are complementary and therefore much more effective where the fed proc has nothing what so ever to do with the weapons effectiveness.
Wookies do not live on endor. It does not make sense.
And it sux.
#3 derpyderp durp hurr.
#4 just one source. one weapon. effecting all incoming damage on effected target.
All incoming damage being from all weapons.
#5 what a ridiculous argument. fact is i'm right, you're wrong.
anyone with half a brain in their head willing to step away from the situation for one single hot minute is able to see the gap between the two weapon types is ridiculously wide.
How in the world people like yourself can continue to spout off this hypocritical opinionated bullshi* and still retain any sort of credibility what so ever in the pvp arena is well beyond my capabilities to comprehend.
No Offence.
Your second part where you go into how -res is basically more useful in this game is closer.
The other part is sheer parity.
5 x players basically guaranteeing -hull and -shield res debuffs on a focused target is a gigantic boost to the force (team).
1 player procing a heal is not.
Even though 5 guys can all proc their heals at the same time, it's:
A) Still not a force multiplier.
Irrelevant since you can't focus fire 5 people at once (and thus them healing themselves with procs is pointless and not an example of force multiplication).
If the Elite Fed phaser proc granted a teamwide +25% shield resistance boost, then it would actually be equivalent.
If they did get that, I'd be screaming just as loud because that would be just as much an awful design as the KDF fleet weapons are.
This is just another in a long line of special abilities that get given to KDF that are either wildly OP, problematic or just plain superior in some idiotic design philosophy that doesn't give them proper/newer ships and gives them horribly OP pets and consoles instead.
Meanwhile feds continually get an endless parade of new ships, but almost universally terrible consoles and special powers. A few exceptions not withstanding.
I think this topic is done to death though at this point. How well do those KvK and FvK queues pop, even now, with Feds having almost all of the toys KDF has - with a few last remaining (and notably problematic items) left to go?
The damage has been done and it has not been done to Fedside. Fedside doesn't get hurt when KDF gets items like the Elite Fleet Weapons - it hurts KDF side more.
Hmm...I suppose you are right. I understand all that, but I still feel like there should be other means of actually reducing shield resists as part of normal abilities, I will stand by that without moving, because I think it's something that would be extremely useful to the game due to all the extreme high shield resists that anyone is easily capable of nowadays for little to no effort.
I think what really kept Disruptors more in line before, was the fact that they WERE hull resist debuffs. But that's all. Having a lot of nearly-guaranteed hull and shield resists from a team constantly on a target (or might as well be if 5 people are using it), is indeed a force multiplier.
I'm not denying that these can be OTT, especially as they proliferate more, and perhaps Tetryon would've been a better choice to gain such a debuff (which I would totally buy btw, since few people ever use Tetryon and I rather like em myself).
That aside though, I HIGHLY agree that this only damages the KDF. All these new ships and such on the Fed-side (Romulan side is still getting ships because they are a new faction and thus I have no issue with it), giving them a huge variety of highly effective ships. While the KDF have been left in the dust, the last C-store ships having been the two new low level BoPs, and before that, the Bortasqu', but aside from that, nothing. Only a couple fleet ships even as well.
I would gladly see huge nerfs to all the big 'OP Klingon toys' (including the ones Feds have and will get) if it meant getting actual SHIPS that could compete in the main meta of the game. I'm not saying there aren't any, because stuff like the Guramba (even if it doesn't have a fleet version yet), Fleet Tor'kaht, etc come to mind. But for the most part, if there's a Klingon ship, there's a Fed or Rom ship that can do it better.
What I am surprised about is how...'ok' people seem to be with Romulan ships as well. Especially FvF queues. All that time of 'decloaking alphas' from BoPs was 'bad', yet now with EVERY Romulan ship having a BC, it's suddenly 'acceptable' to be de-cloaked on more?
@Mimey.
Are you saying the Disruptor Tac consoles increase the standard -10% hull resist debuff beyond that value.
No. That doesn't affect them. I mean the actual damage, aka 'DMG' modifier on a weapon affects them. Look at a standard Mk XII white disruptor weapon, then look at an Advanced fleet one, either a DmgX3, or Accx2 DmgX2. The proc will be higher.
Tac buffs, like APA, APO, etc, also affect it. Other non-tac buffs that affect 'all damage' might also boost them a little, like the new Elite Warp Cores people will eventually get.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
What I am surprised about is how...'ok' people seem to be with Romulan ships as well. Especially FvF queues. All that time of 'decloaking alphas' from BoPs was 'bad', yet now with EVERY Romulan ship having a BC, it's suddenly 'acceptable' to be de-cloaked on more?
I think it's partly because before, Feds could 'hide' in the 'safe' FvF queues, and so when players, who wouldn't normally, did venture into a FvK, it was a shock. It's probably also got to do with the fact that now it doesn't matter because what we have is: F, FR, K, KR and so when it's F+FR v K it's not so noticable due to the fact that the queue in which people used 'hide' is now habitually F+FR v F+FR. When OP is on my team too, it's suddenly not OP.
LMAO
Does any of that actually make any sense?
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I suspect that once the Feds have either nerfed the disruptor into uselessness or somehow acquired it for themselves, and once they have ace. assi. they will turn their attention to seeing the Romulans nuted, the latter of which is already happening.
Most of the anti-Rommie sentiment is coming from primarily Feds. Been long enough in the game to know handles. While some of it has merit, much of it comes from ulterior motives of wanted Feds to remain in the limelight. Its like literally watching a favorite child throw a tantrum when a young sibling receives even modest attention.
Feds refuse to recognize the fact that the scale of balance in Fed. vs. KDF ships favors the Fed line-up.
They refuse to even think that what KDF ships lack in terms of firepower Cryptic have tried to balance in terms of other things.
So for example, the Andorian Escort gets 5-fore weapons and 5-tac consoles (one of five ships that can do this!) + special weapons at the expense of reduced durability. The KDF does not even have any Raiders on the c-store for Tier 5! The only c-store escort for KDF is a vanity item no serious PvP will go near to.
The KDF just don't have the ability to leverage that firepower.
Hence, why we should have the disruptors.
Give the KDF more ships of equal footing to the Fed escorts and other ships, and then there will be no reason why the KDF should have them. But, still too this day long past it's due, Feds STILL argue that the outdated BOP has an unfair advantage over Fed escorts. They STILL cling to the belief that the battlecruiser is a valid justification for want. That is coveting by its very nature.
But, if history has proven anything to me, the disruptors will eventually be given to Feds, and when they do have everything unique of the KDF, they will inundate the KDF forums with gloat.
sadly i must agree everytime someone other then fed gets somthing new its nothing but whine until they get it or its nerfed. and yet there is a problem when kdf want something good?
Speaking of the Elite Disproc. Its a shield resist debuff, so why to the BOff abilities that restore debuffed shields to thier normal status not also work to remove this proc debuff?
If all the availible shield debuff removing abilities do work, then I see no issue with this proc.
If the proper shield healing powers do not remove this debuff, then why not?
Off the top of my head the E. Disrupter proc is the only ability that reduces shield resists in the game. There are drains and damage boosts to shields (and even the ability to strip sum buffs), but none that effect resists directly. So, if I understand what you are getting at, there are no Boff abilities to counter this effect b/c there was never a need before.
Again my main issue isn't so much using these vs Elite shields or even Maco, but that other than those 2, most shields will just be melted (reducing variety). Imo Elite shields and this proc should be reduced (along w/all the shield vamping weapons/consoles tbh).
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Yes. It does.
The point is that the procs are complementary and therefore much more effective where the fed proc has nothing what so ever to do with the weapons effectiveness.
Wookies do not live on endor. It does not make sense.
And it sux.
#3 derpyderp durp hurr.
#4 just one source. one weapon. effecting all incoming damage on effected target.
All incoming damage being from all weapons.
#5 what a ridiculous argument. fact is i'm right, you're wrong.
anyone with half a brain in their head willing to step away from the situation for one single hot minute is able to see the gap between the two weapon types is ridiculously wide.
You have offered no proof and make bold statements that I am meant to accept it because you say so, even to the point of blatantly saying your right?
Prove it. Show me the irrefutable evidence in this thread from a reliable source (not you so no bias can be claimed) that proves beyond a doubt that your claims are true about the standard Disruptor proc being buffed beyond -10%, that the E.proc can be buffed beyond -25% and all the other claims you think are true.
Defend your belief because that is what I am doing for mine because I have not see these values other have claimed and in this games sorry state of pvp caused by Dev neglect and even player complaining coupled with the things one reads in these forums on the actions of some players I no longer follow the in-crowd blindly and want more information before I bend to anothers viewpoint.
Why? because so far between the Devs and the players the balance is still shot to hell (or is it because many argue that too) and I'm not wasting money or effort on it until the game settles because this thread and many others seem full of agendas at times that don't seem to interested in real balance.
How in the world people like yourself can continue to spout off this hypocritical opinionated bullshi* and still retain any sort of credibility what so ever in the pvp arena is well beyond my capabilities to comprehend.
No Offence.
I could not say as I have never claimed PvP mastery and have always considered myself the average player whom can have fun with a little effort to remain competitive and not have to go total minmax to do so.
I have all if not most of the fun toys. Follow the proper skill spending and ask questions when I need answers from many who have been pvping since closed beta (so I know they have an up to date grasp. Plus I know many of them and trust many of them) and play.
Why I may be considered truelly knowledged has always been beyond me.
Go search the archives, I've said as much many times.
I can tell you what I am though.
I'm exactly the type of player you need to keep pvp alive in any game where its dying like in STO.
I'm that average guy that has money and time to play that fills your ranks so the Devs pay attention, add content and not ignore pvp for years. I was actually one of those guys, whom other than PvPing in EVE for 4 years, hated pvp in any other game but was sucked in by the fun of STO's pvp in the very beginings and stuck with it because even though getting **** from pretentious pricks from time to time about how bad I suck.
I've seen a lot of players come and grow past me in skill who you probally have played against yourself. I've even talked some into not giving up on pvp.
Hell I'm the guy that win or lose says GG and doesn't ***** if it was a roflrol from a premie or pug.
Knowing I was not a pro-player. I still played and had fun.
I must say though that all the in-******** and ****-spewing that I have seen in this game based on faction, Fleet affiliation and whatnot plus the fact I have offered my own fair share of the same has really just shown me this community as a whole is full of the same bile and vinegar as most other games, that I got sucked into it as well* and with the exception of a small crowd that are decent peeps (right now not thinking about you) has shown me that this game pvp is not dead but being beaten to death by most of its own fans.
Since I do suck why bother? I personally do not like getting angry and being asinine in debates.
Have fun, keep up the attitude you got and I look forward to seeing what you help pvp become with it and then go **** yourself.
* Anybody that remembers the CO closed-beta will know the same thing happened.
Off the top of my head the E. Disrupter proc is the only ability that reduces shield resists in the game. There are drains and damage boosts to shields (and even the ability to strip sum buffs), but none that effect resists directly. So, if I understand what you are getting at, there are no Boff abilities to counter this effect b/c there was never a need before.
Again my main issue isn't so much using these vs Elite shields or even Maco, but that other than those 2, most shields will just be melted (reducing variety). Imo Elite shields and this proc should be reduced (along w/all the shield vamping weapons/consoles tbh).
Tachyon mines can also reduce shield resists, but that is all I believe.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Andorian Ship 3 piece set includes a tetryon Burst...
can't believe we are still debating this whole Elite Fleet Disruptors are better than the Elite Fleet Phasers but hell what do I know I stated my thoughts on the Federation sense of entitlement and my thoughts on gear disparity....
don't like getting hit with the Elite Fleet Disruptors ? then put your big boy panties on Man Up and figure out how to minimize them... otherwise continue to scream nerf and not fair and stomp your feet like spoiled children.... really bugs me when there is something that closes the tech gap between the Feds and the KDF and because it closes that gap the fed players scream nerf... or it needs balancing... or give us the same thing
please give it a rest for the love of GOD (or what ever higher power you believe in) do what so many of us have already done and adapted overcome and improvise a solution and move on...
LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Tachyon mines can also reduce shield resists, but that is all I believe.
So can Tetryon weapons (I believe)
hahaha. Nothing personal, but this game's the worst at descriptions etc.
Every looked at tetryon weapons? The description from 3 years ago it still says it reduces the targets shield resistance, but from the tooltip it just eats away shield hitpoints.
Its too hard to ever see whether it actually does it or no, my guess is it doesnt even work. Hell after 3 years they still cant make a Shield resistance indicator in this game.
hahaha. Nothing personal, but this game's the worst at descriptions etc.
Every looked at tetryon weapons? The description from 3 years ago it still says it reduces the targets shield resistance, but from the tooltip it just eats away shield hitpoints.
Its too hard to ever see whether it actually does it or no, my guess is it doesnt even work. Hell after 3 years they still cant make a Shield resistance indicator in this game.
lulz.
Tetryons only drain shields nowadays. Not even all that much to be worthwhile compared to other energy types.
Though if they did reduce shield resists, that would actually make them more worth using again. I totally would use em.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
just saying... look I have spent a lot of time in this game finding ways to get around this nerf or that nerf (I primarily play Science characters and no class has been nerfed as hard as Science in my opinion) so this is nothing more than a new challenge I need to adapt to and overcome.... nothing more.... but the feds all seem to thing that these weapons should be nerfed or given the same thing to the federation (because they are to lazy to actually look for a way to get around it) while this is not true of ALL fed players it is certainly true of MOST federation players.....
put your big boy panties on, man up and figure out how to minimize them, there has to be a way... these disruptors are not the I WIN button everyone claims them to be
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Yes, I'm sure that's advice we'll see KDF-only players take as they queue up for KvK. :rolleyes:
Or can they not find their big boy panties when it comes time to queue up against their own items?
That's more an issue of the long-neglect of the KDF-side more than anything. So little time spent on them, along with the smaller population. Even normal FvK queues were, and still are slower sometimes.
Now an honest question to anyone: Have you ever queued for KvK?
If so, how long did it take? And how often has it happened?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
That's more an issue of the long-neglect of the KDF-side more than anything. So little time spent on them, along with the smaller population. Even normal FvK queues were, and still are slower sometimes.
Now an honest question to anyone: Have you ever queued for KvK?
If so, how long did it take? And how often has it happened?
I have and do, it usually only pops if/when a team enters and there's enough pugs to fill out the other side. Tbh I like KvK c&h better than fvk. I prefer KvK to be against and w/BoPs. But, that's more of playstyle choice than anything and after the Romulans came out it's less unique.
Edit: It's more a matter of day(s) and week(s). Sometimes you can get a run for a few days where it pops regularly other times the wait is over a month.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Comments
Yes. It does.
The point is that the procs are complementary and therefore much more effective where the fed proc has nothing what so ever to do with the weapons effectiveness.
Wookies do not live on endor. It does not make sense.
And it sux.
#3 derpyderp durp hurr.
#4 just one source. one weapon. effecting all incoming damage on effected target.
All incoming damage being from all weapons.
#5 what a ridiculous argument. fact is i'm right, you're wrong.
anyone with half a brain in their head willing to step away from the situation for one single hot minute is able to see the gap between the two weapon types is ridiculously wide.
How in the world people like yourself can continue to spout off this hypocritical opinionated bullshi* and still retain any sort of credibility what so ever in the pvp arena is well beyond my capabilities to comprehend.
No Offence.
Hmm...I suppose you are right. I understand all that, but I still feel like there should be other means of actually reducing shield resists as part of normal abilities, I will stand by that without moving, because I think it's something that would be extremely useful to the game due to all the extreme high shield resists that anyone is easily capable of nowadays for little to no effort.
I think what really kept Disruptors more in line before, was the fact that they WERE hull resist debuffs. But that's all. Having a lot of nearly-guaranteed hull and shield resists from a team constantly on a target (or might as well be if 5 people are using it), is indeed a force multiplier.
I'm not denying that these can be OTT, especially as they proliferate more, and perhaps Tetryon would've been a better choice to gain such a debuff (which I would totally buy btw, since few people ever use Tetryon and I rather like em myself).
That aside though, I HIGHLY agree that this only damages the KDF. All these new ships and such on the Fed-side (Romulan side is still getting ships because they are a new faction and thus I have no issue with it), giving them a huge variety of highly effective ships. While the KDF have been left in the dust, the last C-store ships having been the two new low level BoPs, and before that, the Bortasqu', but aside from that, nothing. Only a couple fleet ships even as well.
I would gladly see huge nerfs to all the big 'OP Klingon toys' (including the ones Feds have and will get) if it meant getting actual SHIPS that could compete in the main meta of the game. I'm not saying there aren't any, because stuff like the Guramba (even if it doesn't have a fleet version yet), Fleet Tor'kaht, etc come to mind. But for the most part, if there's a Klingon ship, there's a Fed or Rom ship that can do it better.
What I am surprised about is how...'ok' people seem to be with Romulan ships as well. Especially FvF queues. All that time of 'decloaking alphas' from BoPs was 'bad', yet now with EVERY Romulan ship having a BC, it's suddenly 'acceptable' to be de-cloaked on more?
No. That doesn't affect them. I mean the actual damage, aka 'DMG' modifier on a weapon affects them. Look at a standard Mk XII white disruptor weapon, then look at an Advanced fleet one, either a DmgX3, or Accx2 DmgX2. The proc will be higher.
Tac buffs, like APA, APO, etc, also affect it. Other non-tac buffs that affect 'all damage' might also boost them a little, like the new Elite Warp Cores people will eventually get.
I think it's partly because before, Feds could 'hide' in the 'safe' FvF queues, and so when players, who wouldn't normally, did venture into a FvK, it was a shock. It's probably also got to do with the fact that now it doesn't matter because what we have is: F, FR, K, KR and so when it's F+FR v K it's not so noticable due to the fact that the queue in which people used 'hide' is now habitually F+FR v F+FR. When OP is on my team too, it's suddenly not OP.
LMAO
Does any of that actually make any sense?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
sadly i must agree everytime someone other then fed gets somthing new its nothing but whine until they get it or its nerfed. and yet there is a problem when kdf want something good?
Not easy-mode, since you ask.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Off the top of my head the E. Disrupter proc is the only ability that reduces shield resists in the game. There are drains and damage boosts to shields (and even the ability to strip sum buffs), but none that effect resists directly. So, if I understand what you are getting at, there are no Boff abilities to counter this effect b/c there was never a need before.
Again my main issue isn't so much using these vs Elite shields or even Maco, but that other than those 2, most shields will just be melted (reducing variety). Imo Elite shields and this proc should be reduced (along w/all the shield vamping weapons/consoles tbh).
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
R.I.P
Tachyon mines can also reduce shield resists, but that is all I believe.
can't believe we are still debating this whole Elite Fleet Disruptors are better than the Elite Fleet Phasers but hell what do I know I stated my thoughts on the Federation sense of entitlement and my thoughts on gear disparity....
don't like getting hit with the Elite Fleet Disruptors ? then put your big boy panties on Man Up and figure out how to minimize them... otherwise continue to scream nerf and not fair and stomp your feet like spoiled children.... really bugs me when there is something that closes the tech gap between the Feds and the KDF and because it closes that gap the fed players scream nerf... or it needs balancing... or give us the same thing
please give it a rest for the love of GOD (or what ever higher power you believe in) do what so many of us have already done and adapted overcome and improvise a solution and move on...
LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
So can Tetryon weapons (I believe)
hahaha. Nothing personal, but this game's the worst at descriptions etc.
Every looked at tetryon weapons? The description from 3 years ago it still says it reduces the targets shield resistance, but from the tooltip it just eats away shield hitpoints.
Its too hard to ever see whether it actually does it or no, my guess is it doesnt even work. Hell after 3 years they still cant make a Shield resistance indicator in this game.
lulz.
Tetryons only drain shields nowadays. Not even all that much to be worthwhile compared to other energy types.
Though if they did reduce shield resists, that would actually make them more worth using again. I totally would use em.
Yes, I'm sure that's advice we'll see KDF-only players take as they queue up for KvK. :rolleyes:
Or can they not find their big boy panties when it comes time to queue up against their own items?
put your big boy panties on, man up and figure out how to minimize them, there has to be a way... these disruptors are not the I WIN button everyone claims them to be
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
That's more an issue of the long-neglect of the KDF-side more than anything. So little time spent on them, along with the smaller population. Even normal FvK queues were, and still are slower sometimes.
Now an honest question to anyone: Have you ever queued for KvK?
If so, how long did it take? And how often has it happened?
I have and do, it usually only pops if/when a team enters and there's enough pugs to fill out the other side. Tbh I like KvK c&h better than fvk. I prefer KvK to be against and w/BoPs. But, that's more of playstyle choice than anything and after the Romulans came out it's less unique.
Edit: It's more a matter of day(s) and week(s). Sometimes you can get a run for a few days where it pops regularly other times the wait is over a month.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter