entitlement my a** the weapons are ridiculously imbalanced and you and everyone else knows it.
knews flash kdf fanboi you're human. matter of fact its highly likely you don't even play a klingon toon except for farming. you play a kdf allied Alien u poser.
No. They are not. And, you need to chill, man. Stop with the flaming.
I feel I need to say this as a Federation Player.
By and Large I get the impression that people seem to forget several things:
The United Federation of Planets is not perfect. Even though they would like to think so. The UFP and there-by, its military arm (Starfleet) are at war with several culture on several fronts.
I for one, would like to know where the hell all these resources are coming from, which allow them to field all this tech, when only 60 years ago, the bulk of Starfleet was an armada of 48 vessels. (Anyone remember Wolf 359?)
It would seem to me that Starfleet should be having a harder time of things, than our game seems to depict. Also, again, we are at war. Technologies advance quickly in wartime, but it is rare that such advancements see the battlefield so quickly.
Bare also in mind that Starfleet, and the Federation function in a much different fashion than the War-driven, combat oriented Klingon society. Simply put, these people are accustom to warfront conditions and should, simply by virtue of the same, hold a higher placing during any war.
This said, espienage can lead to loss of state secrets and new technologies and weapons. (referance the Enigma machine of WW II which allowed Allied forces to anticipate Axis movements and counter them effectively).
I think, Starfleet, and Federation players need to consider all these things. We should not expect any more than we already have. The klingon, which are only one faction we are currently at war with, are a society which is geared for conflict, conquest and battle. Everything they do, including adapting to rapidly changing warfront conditions, inovation and emplimentation of new technologies, SHOULD reflect this.
No two sides in any war are rarely equal. Nor should they be.
Disruptors need to sound like disruptors right now they dont
In the klingon civil war TNG episode's the Disruptor bolt fired from Galron's ship is missing totally
Klingon photon torpedo's make the wrong sound when fired
disruptors do more damage to targets over phasers making up for the missing 5th console , with the same level of equipment ( Rare ) / Blue a ship equiped with disruptors wil do considerability more damage than a equally prepared phaser equiped ship to a target
anyone can reproduce these results with cheep white common weapons and consoles on the same ship
Adding more to the disruptors resistance debuff just widens the gap more on Elite weapons
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I feel I need to say this as a Federation Player.
By and Large I get the impression that people seem to forget several things:
The United Federation of Planets is not perfect. Even though they would like to think so. The UFP and there-by, its military arm (Starfleet) are at war with several culture on several fronts.
I for one, would like to know where the hell all these resources are coming from, which allow them to field all this tech, when only 60 years ago, the bulk of Starfleet was an armada of 48 vessels. (Anyone remember Wolf 359?)
It would seem to me that Starfleet should be having a harder time of things, than our game seems to depict. Also, again, we are at war. Technologies advance quickly in wartime, but it is rare that such advancements see the battlefield so quickly.
Bare also in mind that Starfleet, and the Federation function in a much different fashion than the War-driven, combat oriented Klingon society. Simply put, these people are accustom to warfront conditions and should, simply by virtue of the same, hold a higher placing during any war.
This said, espienage can lead to loss of state secrets and new technologies and weapons. (referance the Enigma machine of WW II which allowed Allied forces to anticipate Axis movements and counter them effectively).
I think, Starfleet, and Federation players need to consider all these things. We should not expect any more than we already have. The klingon, which are only one faction we are currently at war with, are a society which is geared for conflict, conquest and battle. Everything they do, including adapting to rapidly changing warfront conditions, inovation and emplimentation of new technologies, SHOULD reflect this.
No two sides in any war are rarely equal. Nor should they be.
Absolutely right! The original post was about disparities in gear. Does it really matter? In the end, the Federation will end up with more ships that have Federation unique consoles that make up for the imbalance. And, the KDF will, as well; and, invariablly, we will see more screaming and crying, and gnashing of teeth over this fact.
Am I sad/mad? Nope. I run with a pretty good crowd of numbers crunchers who like to share new builds that maximize on damage and survivability. They've taught me alot, and sometimes, I manage to impress them with ideas of my own. I favor science ships, and can rock the field in any faction. I don't have access to major mega-weapons like the Fleets that are above T3. I don't need them. I can adapt and overcome. If not, I just move on. It's not a big deal. No penile measuring required.
ok so lets talk about Gear disparity for a moment now that we have addressed the Entitlement mindset of many Federation Players,
in my previous statement I noted that the Federation has a Far better collection of ships to choose from that does require a C-store purchase...
for the longest time the Phasers were the weapons of choice for federation players (well Phasers and Anti Protons for tacs and Phasers / Polarons for Science.... that's because for the longest time the phaser proc was broken.... and everyone used phasers almost to the exclusion of everything else.... except for the Klingons which stuck with their Disruptors.....
in the time it took for Cryptic to address the Phaser Proc Issue I watched as the Feds got Carriers, 3 different Ship 3-packs, (the KDF only got one 3-pack) all of the cool KDF consoles started making their way to Fed Captains..... essentially most everything (I said most not all)that was uniquely KDF was assimilated into the Federation.
Everytime the KDF had something that was better than the Feds had the Fed Playerbase would Scream "give us the same stuff or nerf it" while KDF players sat back and used what they had to still win against this technologically SUPERIOR faction....
now the Elite Fleet Disruptors are better than the Elite Fleet Phasers so there is a gear disparity again and of course the Fed Battlecry is "give us the same thing or nerf those disruptors"
so the Elite Fleet Disruptors are better, BIG deal these weapons are not an I win button...
the problem that most fed players are missing here is that if your build is not solid all the op gear in the world is not going to help you. you will still get defeated... learn to play smarter and quit relying on the OP cheese... I do not use the Elite Disruptors I have them and I save them for STFs because I Don't need them to defeat players in PVP.... as a matter of fact my Fleet Ha'feh does not use a single piece of Reputation gear and has very limited "Advanced" Fleet gear and I still do well in PVP... while I'm sure my build is solid it more comes down to the skill of the player than the equipment he/she uses....
I put it to you this way... take the BEST of the BEST PVP players out there put them in a ship with ALL common gear no universal consoles(unless it actually came with the ship) and put 5 of them on a team.... now form a team of decent players with access to EVERYTHING the game has to offer and watch as the team of Common Gear ELITE PvP players DECIMATE everyone that comes their way....
But how is this possible you ask ?
Simple, the Elite yet common team will communicate and coordinate and know their ship and builds intimately where as the team that can use everything rely on the universal skill consoles and spam and in the end do not know their builds as well and do not plan as well because they rely on OP gear more than actual tactics.....
so in closing the Elite Fleet Disruptors are OP (maybe) they are not an I win button...
learn your build learn your ships capabilities, and learn to work as a team.... (3 things the KDF figured out EARLY on in this game)...
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
entitlement my a** the weapons are ridiculously imbalanced and you and everyone else knows it.
knews flash kdf fanboi you're human. matter of fact its highly likely you don't even play a klingon toon except for farming. you play a kdf allied Alien u poser.
I was playing STO since closed beta you monkeydescended fed cool aid drinking fop and KLingon since the faction was put in the game.
I have one fed toon. My fed toon. I only play him for special events.
I know full well I am human in RL.
In the game Im klingon.
Or do you really believe you are part of space fairing race of humans on some trek to be threatened by my viewpoint of said fictional characters?
Truth hurts. In STO the majority of the fed fanbase comes off as having a false sense of Entitlement to anything they desire IP for purely selfish reasons. Its even been the foundation to support your Need for any item or experience that the KDF and now Romulans possessed. "The IP is about us, we deserve..." "the UFP has thousands of member races, weshould have any existing technology in the IP"
The examples of the fed entitlement mentality is well known.
Im just glad not all fans are like you. Ive luckily met many good people in sto.
As to why you TRIBBLE may be entitled, I can say as I do not know what youbintend or do with it.
I was playing STO since closed beta you monkeydescended fed cool aid drinking fop and KLingon since the faction was put in the game.
I have one fed toon. My fed toon. I only play him for special events.
I know full well I am human in RL.
In the game Im klingon.
Or do you really believe you are part of space fairing race of humans on some trek to be threatened by my viewpoint of said fictional characters?
Get em Roach.... I posted my Arguments on the Entitlement Mindset AND the Gear Disparity subject you finish him off the Honor is yours....
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
All this blather about fed entitlement and how fed ships are sooo much better than kdf ships and gear , which is factual nonsense. btw, 'n u all know it.
You're not even arguing that the kdf weapons aren't better than the fed weapons.
Somehow you've convinced yourselves that you deserve better weapons. lol narcissistic megalomania ftw ey?
Facts are these.
KDF Elite Fleet weapons are better for the following reasons.
#1, the Disruptor proc is modified by the Dmg modifier. Phasers are not.
#2, the Elite KDF Proc, the shield damage buff, effects ALL incoming damage to the effected shields for the duration of its effect. The FED Elite proc is a minute shield heal, one time effect amounting to a single shot of a turret, not a volley, just a shot in that volley. Its completely inconsequential.
#3, SEE NUMBER TWO.
#4, The disruptor proc, coupled with the shield damage proc, literally melts any shields away when a target is being fired on by two ships during its effect. 25% increased shield damage is hUge.
The Phasers are in no way shape or form the least bit comparable.
Federation captains have no real elite weapons.
The discrepancy between the two weapon types is huge. And no, i'm not calling for a nerf of the kdf weapons. I play both factions. Often. What needs to happen is a comparable buff be given to the federation weapons so that they're the least bit useful to have over the advanced.
As it stands, the KDF Elite Disruptors are nearly 'Must Have' if you're min maxing, and the Federation Elite Phasers are 'Not Worth Having'
You all know it. You don't even deny it, just continue to troll 'n spout off opinionated nonsense and hate speech towards federation players.
You should be ashamed. Maybe go back to yelling at 10 year olds playing xbox live.
A couple things could be done to easily mitigate this gap between the two,. One that comes to mind is a nerf, 'n I don't advocate that. It would be that the extra 25% damage effect would ONLY apply to the weapon that procced it. The other, would be a buff to either the shield heal of the phasers or possibly a hardening of the shields. the hardening of the shields thing I think would be most apt. in comparison anyway.
Ah, ok ok...this time I wanna be good and right...
We Feds have the best ships, the best consoles and the best fleet weapons! So...why do we lose often? Because we're a bunch of noobs always complaining and whining and we've no desire to learn and improve our builds, our vessels capabilities and teamworking.
Happy now?:D
wow really ???
let me lay it out for you
it is mostly the players because I can (and do from time to time) play Feds AND KDF I can pretty much shred in PVP regardless of my ship or gear.....
KDF PVP characters: N'talia Daughter of Kor KDF Sci (Vo'Quv Carrier)
Xi'Zzin KDF aligned Romulan Tac (Fleet Ha'feh Warbird)
and these ships ALL do well in PVP without the Elite gear again its not so much the gear as it is the player and his knowledge of tactics, his build, team synergy, communication skills
oh and I have been around since Beta as well Playing KDF since I was capable... I have characters in both factions.... and while I am NOT the best I AM better than most...
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
@starwrathforever: If you want to see a Fed ship own, watch andoriansrus in action. Then, they will proceed to do the same thing KDF side, and all with less than Elite weapons, and few universal consoles. I'm not bragging. I'm frigging jealous. You have no clue what you're talking about.
@diplomat9999: We play both sides of the fence. We're not hating on Fed players. We're putting people in check who need to be. I, personally, don't like to PvP. I get owned alot. I win some, too. Still not my thing. If a single weapon makes or breaks your PvP, you need to get better at PvP. Just sayin'.
All this blather about fed entitlement and how fed ships are sooo much better than kdf ships and gear , which is factual nonsense. btw, 'n u all know it.
You're not even arguing that the kdf weapons aren't better than the fed weapons.
Somehow you've convinced yourselves that you deserve better weapons. lol narcissistic megalomania ftw ey?
Facts are these.
KDF Elite Fleet weapons are better for the following reasons.
#1, the Disruptor proc is modified by the Dmg modifier. Phasers are not.
#2, the Elite KDF Proc, the shield damage buff, effects ALL incoming damage to the effected shields for the duration of its effect. The FED Elite proc is a minute shield heal, one time effect amounting to a single shot of a turret, not a volley, just a shot in that volley. Its completely inconsequential.
#3, SEE NUMBER TWO.
#4, The disruptor proc, coupled with the shield damage proc, literally melts any shields away when a target is being fired on by two ships during its effect. 25% increased shield damage is hUge.
The Phasers are in no way shape or form the least bit comparable.
Federation captains have no real elite weapons.
The discrepancy between the two weapon types is huge. And no, i'm not calling for a nerf of the kdf weapons. I play both factions. Often. What needs to happen is a comparable buff be given to the federation weapons so that they're the least bit useful to have over the advanced.
As it stands, the KDF Elite Disruptors are nearly 'Must Have' if you're min maxing, and the Federation Elite Phasers are 'Not Worth Having'
You all know it. You don't even deny it, just continue to troll 'n spout off opinionated nonsense and hate speech towards federation players.
You should be ashamed. Maybe go back to yelling at 10 year olds playing xbox live.
A couple things could be done to easily mitigate this gap between the two,. One that comes to mind is a nerf, 'n I don't advocate that. It would be that the extra 25% damage effect would ONLY apply to the weapon that procced it. The other, would be a buff to either the shield heal of the phasers or possibly a hardening of the shields. the hardening of the shields thing I think would be most apt. in comparison anyway.
I'm not arguing the point that the Elite Fleet Disruptors are better than Elite Fleet Phasers we know this to be a true statement of fact.... what I am arguing is that they are not the "I Win" button that everyone is claiming that they are......
as I said in a previous post "I'm not the best but I am better than most." and this is without using the Elite Fleet stuff.
why am I better than most you might ask yourself.... because "Most" do not take the time to ask their betters for help and advise, "most" do not learn from their mistakes, "most" do not work well in a team atmosphere, and finally "most" think that because I can strip your shields and go 3/4th the way through their hull that I must be a HACK or a Cheat and not bother with asking intelligent questions...
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Get em Roach.... I posted my Arguments on the Entitlement Mindset AND the Gear Disparity subject you finish him off the Honor is yours....
Im not especially proud of my angry retort because not all feds act childish. Some are very decent people who can step-away from thier fandom to seek balance that does not erode faction diversity just like not all Klingons are Aholes like myself.
Im merely tired of the continuing outlook of "Im a fed and I deserve.......".
As to the Elite Disruptors, they will get nerfed soon enough I think becuase everything gets nerfed eventually.
Enjoy them like the feds enjoyed Old Phaser procs until then.
#1) the standard disruptor proc is a 2.5% chance for a -10% hull resist reduction.
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
#1) the standard disruptor proc is a 2.5% chance for a -10% hull resist reduction.
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
This issue w/those kind of debuffs is that they are force multipliers, ie anyone attacking the debuffed target benefits. I also assume it's all shield resists and not just resists to disruptors.
Generally, the Power Creep wheel turns and one side is on top while the other is on the bottom. The bad part of the shield proc to me is it limits shield options (it tend to melt shields not specialized in resists), though it does help counter the ridiculousness of the fleet shield resists. I wouldn't mind if that added a lighter version on of that proc across factions that wasn't as strong and was only for debuffing a specific energy weapon type and toned down the Fleet shields stacking resists.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Lol...so let me do a quick summary:
The evul KDF has the best surprise alpha ship, the Bop, the best cruiser, the Battle Cruiser, the best suck...ahem...draining vessels, Vo'Quv and Kar'fi, the best consoles, the best fleet weapons.
We Feds have better escorts and real science ships, this is true...but the Bug has canceled our advantage...
And now you would like to have also the science ships! Please, give us at least this...:rolleyes:
We do not have the best surprise alpha ship, at least not when it comes to damage output. Fleet Defiant with cloaking console in the eng or sci slots does better due to 5 tac consoles. We have possibly more versatile decloak alpha ships due to the BoP, but I wouldn't say they're 'the best'.
Yes, I think every KDF player would gladly admit that the KDF has the best faction-specific battlecruisers in the game. This is a good thing, battlecruisers are one of the faction's remaining 'strengths'. Yes, we also have the edge in carriers and draining, and now an edge with the Elite Fleet weapons (the consoles are now almost all available to the Federation for much cheaper than what the KDF has to shell out for 'em).
Compare this to the intrinsic advantage that the Federation has in the form of better escorts, better science ships (which you conveniently downplay, despite the fact that this makes a huge difference in PvP) and now the advantage of Romulan ships compensating for your 'weakness' in cruisers and carriers. On top of that, you retain a large population advantage, which makes a difference in zones like Ker'rat (though this is a different issue, I'll grant).
PS: Oh, and speaking of Romulan ships: I will be eternally amused by the fact that after YEARS of whining about BoP tactics, Federation players are now using the exact same tactics with their battlecloaking Romulan ships, and apparently having no qualms about it. Hilarious.
#1) the standard disruptor proc is a 2.5% chance for a -10% hull resist reduction.
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
Actually Roach...
Disruptors are affected by the DMG modifier. So if you have more of those on your weapons, the amount goes up.
Also, the Disruptor proc, normal one that is, is affected by Tac buffs; which is why a few consider Disruptors (normal ones) to be overpowered.
I would guess that the elite disruptor proc isn't affected by anything though.
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people always seem to forget the design philosophy that the devs have in mind when making this stuff:
Federation has more defensive measures and options for the most part. Not all of them of course, but most are more defense in how they act.
Phaser procs (disable an enemy rather than destroy it), the elite phaser shield heal, the Steamrunner console, etc.
Compared to the much more offensive Klingon side: Disruptors and Elite Disruptors, Theta, the Guramba, etc.
But this is a game of 'pew', so most people don't want to have the defensive stuff most of the time, hence the call outs on Klingon things being 'overpowered'. I mean that btw, do most people honestly do want a lot of extra defensive things? I mean, power creep has pretty much eliminated the need for much of it anyways, allowing everyone to have romulan sci consoles, dil mine engy consoles, elite fleet shields, Romulan BOFFs, and so on.
So again, everyone has all this extra defensive stuff, while not needing the extra Federation-specific stuff as much, and thus the call outs on Klingon things.
However, that doesn't make it OP. Say what you will about things in this game, but 'OP' is only in the eye of the beholder.
Anyways, I don't feel that these need a nerf. I said in an earlier post in this thread, that I would rather have OTHER means of reducing resists on shields. Like using Tachyon Beam, or CPB, or something else. Give us means of making shields weaker *cough* science and engy stuff* cough, then we can see if after that.
As it stands, you can SNB off someone's buffs, PSW an Extends off, but there's not really many ways of actually reducing shield resists.
We all hate dealing with super high shield resists, so why fuss so much over something that actually CAN lower those resists?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Disruptors are affected by the DMG modifier. So if you have more of those on your weapons, the amount goes up.
Also, the Disruptor proc, normal one that is, is affected by Tac buffs; which is why a few consider Disruptors (normal ones) to be overpowered.
I would guess that the elite disruptor proc isn't affected by anything though.
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people always seem to forget the design philosophy that the devs have in mind when making this stuff:
Federation has more defensive measures and options for the most part. Not all of them of course, but most are more defense in how they act.
Phaser procs (disable an enemy rather than destroy it), the elite phaser shield heal, the Steamrunner console, etc.
Compared to the much more offensive Klingon side: Disruptors and Elite Disruptors, Theta, the Guramba, etc.
But this is a game of 'pew', so most people don't want to have the defensive stuff most of the time, hence the call outs on Klingon things being 'overpowered'. I mean that btw, do most people honestly do want a lot of extra defensive things? I mean, power creep has pretty much eliminated the need for much of it anyways, allowing everyone to have romulan sci consoles, dil mine engy consoles, elite fleet shields, Romulan BOFFs, and so on.
So again, everyone has all this extra defensive stuff, while not needing the extra Federation-specific stuff as much, and thus the call outs on Klingon things.
However, that doesn't make it OP. Say what you will about things in this game, but 'OP' is only in the eye of the beholder.
Anyways, I don't feel that these need a nerf. I said in an earlier post in this thread, that I would rather have OTHER means of reducing resists on shields. Like using Tachyon Beam, or CPB, or something else. Give us means of making shields weaker *cough* science and engy stuff* cough, then we can see if after that.
As it stands, you can SNB off someone's buffs, PSW an Extends off, but there's not really many ways of actually reducing shield resists.
We all hate dealing with super high shield resists, so why fuss so much over something that actually CAN lower those resists?
Agreed, against people running high shield resistances. . .about the only way to easily kill them would be to use bleedthrough damage (transphasics, plasma, DEM, normal bleedthrough, etc), or to somehow take their shields offline long enough to do sufficient damage. This can take some time, especially if they're also loaded up with some hull-heals and a high hull regen rate.
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people always seem to forget the design philosophy that the devs have in mind when making this stuff:
Federation has more defensive measures and options for the most part. Not all of them of course, but most are more defense in how they act.
Phaser procs (disable an enemy rather than destroy it), the elite phaser shield heal, the Steamrunner console, etc.
Compared to the much more offensive Klingon side: Disruptors and Elite Disruptors, Theta, the Guramba, etc.
This part is largely not the root of the problem.
Your second part where you go into how -res is basically more useful in this game is closer.
The other part is sheer parity.
5 x players basically guaranteeing -hull and -shield res debuffs on a focused target is a gigantic boost to the force (team).
1 player procing a heal is not.
Even though 5 guys can all proc their heals at the same time, it's:
A) Still not a force multiplier.
Irrelevant since you can't focus fire 5 people at once (and thus them healing themselves with procs is pointless and not an example of force multiplication).
If the Elite Fed phaser proc granted a teamwide +25% shield resistance boost, then it would actually be equivalent.
If they did get that, I'd be screaming just as loud because that would be just as much an awful design as the KDF fleet weapons are.
This is just another in a long line of special abilities that get given to KDF that are either wildly OP, problematic or just plain superior in some idiotic design philosophy that doesn't give them proper/newer ships and gives them horribly OP pets and consoles instead.
Meanwhile feds continually get an endless parade of new ships, but almost universally terrible consoles and special powers. A few exceptions not withstanding.
I think this topic is done to death though at this point. How well do those KvK and FvK queues pop, even now, with Feds having almost all of the toys KDF has - with a few last remaining (and notably problematic items) left to go?
The damage has been done and it has not been done to Fedside. Fedside doesn't get hurt when KDF gets items like the Elite Fleet Weapons - it hurts KDF side more.
This is just another in a long line of special abilities that get given to KDF that are either wildly OP, problematic or just plain superior in some idiotic design philosophy that doesn't give them proper/newer ships and gives them horribly OP pets and consoles instead.
I must say as someone that has only played KDF since launch I largely agree with this.
I have always pondered why the most "offensive" of the playable factions has such a poor "offensive" ship line-up compared to the one which is the antithesis of this.
From races to traits, KDF has always come out at the bottom. KDF is the only one that has no space trait. Romulan get bonus damage and cloaking, Humans get leadership, and what does KDF get but a handful of ground traits of no importance. Ground PvP is unofficially dead at the moment.
It would appear that Feds received better ships & stats, and to balance that KDF got better consoles and weapons at the expense of "weaker" ships.
But, then the console swapping started and the small advantage which the KDF did have to narrow the divide was given the the Feds and Roms just the same I started to realise that the KDF was already on the slippery downhill.
So where does the KDF stand now?
Aceton Assimilator - soon to be given to Feds.
Disruptors - not sure, although nearly equitable weapons found their way into a lockbox...
When these last two bastions of KDF uniqueness are remove, the KDF will be at a substantial disadvantage across the board.
Feds will have access to the best of everything. Already, there are even some respected PvP members who are open about the fact that the Feds now field escorts better than the JHAS, and to a certain degree its arguable that so do the Romulans.
I must say as someone that has only played KDF since launch I largely agree with this.
I have always pondered any the most "offensive" of the playable factions has such a poor "offensive" ship line-up compared to the one which is the antithesis of this.
From races to traits, KDF has always come out at the bottom. KDF is the only one that has no space trait. Romulan get bonus damage and cloaking, Humans get leadership, and what does KDF get but a handful of ground traits of no importance.
I always believed that Feds for the better ships & stats, and to balance that KDF got better consoles and weapons at the expense of "weaker" ships.
But, then the console swapping started and the small advantage which the KDF did have to narrow the divide was given the the Feds and Roms just the same.
So where does the KDF stand now?
Aceton Assimilator - soon to be given to Feds.
Disruptors - not sure.
When these last two bastions of KDF uniqueness are remove, the KDF will be at a substantial disadvantage across the board.
Feds have access to the best of everything. There are even some respected PvP members who are open about the fact that the Feds now field escorts better than the JHAS.
I would be fine if the Federation got the edge in science ships and had cruisers that were better at tanking than our battlecruisers (which they are, at least in some instances). Those are the traditional Federation strengths. . .durable cruisers and advanced sciences. KDF strengths should be attack-heavy battlecruisers and escort-level ships that generally kick TRIBBLE. The weakness in the science field would be acceptable at that point, and the two factions could perhaps have carrier arms that are roughly equivalent but with different focuses. That would be my idea of a balanced selection of ship lines between the two factions.
Of course, then there's the issue of the Romulans. As any observant KDF player will note, the Federation has been using the Romulan ships to compensate for their traditional 'weaknesses'. . .that being the lack of burst-DPSing cruisers and the lack of cloaking ships. In fact, the Federation has been copying KDF BoP tactics when using their new Fed-Rom battlecloakers. . .this is after years of whining about BoPs. Meanwhile, the KDF didn't really gain as much from the Romulan faction in terms of supplementing their ships. . .we already had battlecruisers that could de-cloak alpha. We already had battlecloaking raiders (BoPs). The Romulan ship line is not at the point where it's fully compensating for the KDF's lack of science ships (though ships like the Ha'nom Guardian are helpful), and Romulan escorts are not anything that compensates for KDF weaknesses compared to the Federation options.
PS: Oh, and speaking of Romulan ships: I will be eternally amused by the fact that after YEARS of whining about BoP tactics, Federation players are now using the exact same tactics with their battlecloaking Romulan ships, and apparently having no qualms about it. Hilarious.
I presume you're talking mostly about premades here and while I agree with this statement to a large extent and very much share the amusement, I would like to point out that at least some of those players will only be 'Fed' because of a decision forced upon them at level 10, and, given your other point about the population issue, on which I think I also agree with you, it's hardly surprising. There is also the other issue of 'better dead than Red' :P
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
This issue w/those kind of debuffs is that they are force multipliers, ie anyone attacking the debuffed target benefits. I also assume it's all shield resists and not just resists to disruptors.
Generally, the Power Creep wheel turns and one side is on top while the other is on the bottom. The bad part of the shield proc to me is it limits shield options (it tend to melt shields not specialized in resists), though it does help counter the ridiculousness of the fleet shield resists. I wouldn't mind if that added a lighter version on of that proc across factions that wasn't as strong and was only for debuffing a specific energy weapon type and toned down the Fleet shields stacking resists.
Speaking of the Elite Disproc. Its a shield resist debuff, so why to the BOff abilities that restore debuffed shields to thier normal status not also work to remove this proc debuff?
If all the availible shield debuff removing abilities do work, then I see no issue with this proc.
If the proper shield healing powers do not remove this debuff, then why not?
most romulans players align with the federation at level 10 for one plain and simple reason... the availability of the KDF consoles (which are easier to aquire for the feds than the KDF)
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Comments
No. They are not. And, you need to chill, man. Stop with the flaming.
obviously the wall of text was to much for you to read so I will boil it down for you....
OMG the KDF has something OP NERF IT NERF IT... or give the us Feds the SAME THING
and my reply was (boiled down for the intellectually challenged)
NO you feds already has enough of our stuffs
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
No no. He has a case of serious BUTT HURT.
By and Large I get the impression that people seem to forget several things:
The United Federation of Planets is not perfect. Even though they would like to think so. The UFP and there-by, its military arm (Starfleet) are at war with several culture on several fronts.
I for one, would like to know where the hell all these resources are coming from, which allow them to field all this tech, when only 60 years ago, the bulk of Starfleet was an armada of 48 vessels. (Anyone remember Wolf 359?)
It would seem to me that Starfleet should be having a harder time of things, than our game seems to depict. Also, again, we are at war. Technologies advance quickly in wartime, but it is rare that such advancements see the battlefield so quickly.
Bare also in mind that Starfleet, and the Federation function in a much different fashion than the War-driven, combat oriented Klingon society. Simply put, these people are accustom to warfront conditions and should, simply by virtue of the same, hold a higher placing during any war.
This said, espienage can lead to loss of state secrets and new technologies and weapons. (referance the Enigma machine of WW II which allowed Allied forces to anticipate Axis movements and counter them effectively).
I think, Starfleet, and Federation players need to consider all these things. We should not expect any more than we already have. The klingon, which are only one faction we are currently at war with, are a society which is geared for conflict, conquest and battle. Everything they do, including adapting to rapidly changing warfront conditions, inovation and emplimentation of new technologies, SHOULD reflect this.
No two sides in any war are rarely equal. Nor should they be.
In the klingon civil war TNG episode's the Disruptor bolt fired from Galron's ship is missing totally
Klingon photon torpedo's make the wrong sound when fired
disruptors do more damage to targets over phasers making up for the missing 5th console , with the same level of equipment ( Rare ) / Blue a ship equiped with disruptors wil do considerability more damage than a equally prepared phaser equiped ship to a target
anyone can reproduce these results with cheep white common weapons and consoles on the same ship
Adding more to the disruptors resistance debuff just widens the gap more on Elite weapons
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Absolutely right! The original post was about disparities in gear. Does it really matter? In the end, the Federation will end up with more ships that have Federation unique consoles that make up for the imbalance. And, the KDF will, as well; and, invariablly, we will see more screaming and crying, and gnashing of teeth over this fact.
Am I sad/mad? Nope. I run with a pretty good crowd of numbers crunchers who like to share new builds that maximize on damage and survivability. They've taught me alot, and sometimes, I manage to impress them with ideas of my own. I favor science ships, and can rock the field in any faction. I don't have access to major mega-weapons like the Fleets that are above T3. I don't need them. I can adapt and overcome. If not, I just move on. It's not a big deal. No penile measuring required.
in my previous statement I noted that the Federation has a Far better collection of ships to choose from that does require a C-store purchase...
for the longest time the Phasers were the weapons of choice for federation players (well Phasers and Anti Protons for tacs and Phasers / Polarons for Science.... that's because for the longest time the phaser proc was broken.... and everyone used phasers almost to the exclusion of everything else.... except for the Klingons which stuck with their Disruptors.....
in the time it took for Cryptic to address the Phaser Proc Issue I watched as the Feds got Carriers, 3 different Ship 3-packs, (the KDF only got one 3-pack) all of the cool KDF consoles started making their way to Fed Captains..... essentially most everything (I said most not all)that was uniquely KDF was assimilated into the Federation.
Everytime the KDF had something that was better than the Feds had the Fed Playerbase would Scream "give us the same stuff or nerf it" while KDF players sat back and used what they had to still win against this technologically SUPERIOR faction....
now the Elite Fleet Disruptors are better than the Elite Fleet Phasers so there is a gear disparity again and of course the Fed Battlecry is "give us the same thing or nerf those disruptors"
so the Elite Fleet Disruptors are better, BIG deal these weapons are not an I win button...
the problem that most fed players are missing here is that if your build is not solid all the op gear in the world is not going to help you. you will still get defeated... learn to play smarter and quit relying on the OP cheese... I do not use the Elite Disruptors I have them and I save them for STFs because I Don't need them to defeat players in PVP.... as a matter of fact my Fleet Ha'feh does not use a single piece of Reputation gear and has very limited "Advanced" Fleet gear and I still do well in PVP... while I'm sure my build is solid it more comes down to the skill of the player than the equipment he/she uses....
I put it to you this way... take the BEST of the BEST PVP players out there put them in a ship with ALL common gear no universal consoles(unless it actually came with the ship) and put 5 of them on a team.... now form a team of decent players with access to EVERYTHING the game has to offer and watch as the team of Common Gear ELITE PvP players DECIMATE everyone that comes their way....
But how is this possible you ask ?
Simple, the Elite yet common team will communicate and coordinate and know their ship and builds intimately where as the team that can use everything rely on the universal skill consoles and spam and in the end do not know their builds as well and do not plan as well because they rely on OP gear more than actual tactics.....
so in closing the Elite Fleet Disruptors are OP (maybe) they are not an I win button...
learn your build learn your ships capabilities, and learn to work as a team.... (3 things the KDF figured out EARLY on in this game)...
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
I was playing STO since closed beta you monkeydescended fed cool aid drinking fop and KLingon since the faction was put in the game.
I have one fed toon. My fed toon. I only play him for special events.
I know full well I am human in RL.
In the game Im klingon.
Or do you really believe you are part of space fairing race of humans on some trek to be threatened by my viewpoint of said fictional characters?
Truth hurts. In STO the majority of the fed fanbase comes off as having a false sense of Entitlement to anything they desire IP for purely selfish reasons. Its even been the foundation to support your Need for any item or experience that the KDF and now Romulans possessed. "The IP is about us, we deserve..." "the UFP has thousands of member races, weshould have any existing technology in the IP"
The examples of the fed entitlement mentality is well known.
Im just glad not all fans are like you. Ive luckily met many good people in sto.
As to why you TRIBBLE may be entitled, I can say as I do not know what youbintend or do with it.
R.I.P
Get em Roach.... I posted my Arguments on the Entitlement Mindset AND the Gear Disparity subject you finish him off the Honor is yours....
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
All this blather about fed entitlement and how fed ships are sooo much better than kdf ships and gear , which is factual nonsense. btw, 'n u all know it.
You're not even arguing that the kdf weapons aren't better than the fed weapons.
Somehow you've convinced yourselves that you deserve better weapons. lol narcissistic megalomania ftw ey?
Facts are these.
KDF Elite Fleet weapons are better for the following reasons.
#1, the Disruptor proc is modified by the Dmg modifier. Phasers are not.
#2, the Elite KDF Proc, the shield damage buff, effects ALL incoming damage to the effected shields for the duration of its effect. The FED Elite proc is a minute shield heal, one time effect amounting to a single shot of a turret, not a volley, just a shot in that volley. Its completely inconsequential.
#3, SEE NUMBER TWO.
#4, The disruptor proc, coupled with the shield damage proc, literally melts any shields away when a target is being fired on by two ships during its effect. 25% increased shield damage is hUge.
The Phasers are in no way shape or form the least bit comparable.
Federation captains have no real elite weapons.
The discrepancy between the two weapon types is huge. And no, i'm not calling for a nerf of the kdf weapons. I play both factions. Often. What needs to happen is a comparable buff be given to the federation weapons so that they're the least bit useful to have over the advanced.
As it stands, the KDF Elite Disruptors are nearly 'Must Have' if you're min maxing, and the Federation Elite Phasers are 'Not Worth Having'
You all know it. You don't even deny it, just continue to troll 'n spout off opinionated nonsense and hate speech towards federation players.
You should be ashamed. Maybe go back to yelling at 10 year olds playing xbox live.
A couple things could be done to easily mitigate this gap between the two,. One that comes to mind is a nerf, 'n I don't advocate that. It would be that the extra 25% damage effect would ONLY apply to the weapon that procced it. The other, would be a buff to either the shield heal of the phasers or possibly a hardening of the shields. the hardening of the shields thing I think would be most apt. in comparison anyway.
wow really ???
let me lay it out for you
it is mostly the players because I can (and do from time to time) play Feds AND KDF I can pretty much shred in PVP regardless of my ship or gear.....
Fed PVP characters: Zissen Fed Sci Captain (Deep Space Science Vessel)
De'lyn Fed Tac Captain (Kumari)
KDF PVP characters: N'talia Daughter of Kor KDF Sci (Vo'Quv Carrier)
Xi'Zzin KDF aligned Romulan Tac (Fleet Ha'feh Warbird)
and these ships ALL do well in PVP without the Elite gear again its not so much the gear as it is the player and his knowledge of tactics, his build, team synergy, communication skills
oh and I have been around since Beta as well Playing KDF since I was capable... I have characters in both factions.... and while I am NOT the best I AM better than most...
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
@diplomat9999: We play both sides of the fence. We're not hating on Fed players. We're putting people in check who need to be. I, personally, don't like to PvP. I get owned alot. I win some, too. Still not my thing. If a single weapon makes or breaks your PvP, you need to get better at PvP. Just sayin'.
He sparked my ire.
As to klingon origons..I do not think they came from primates.
R.I.P
I'm not arguing the point that the Elite Fleet Disruptors are better than Elite Fleet Phasers we know this to be a true statement of fact.... what I am arguing is that they are not the "I Win" button that everyone is claiming that they are......
as I said in a previous post "I'm not the best but I am better than most." and this is without using the Elite Fleet stuff.
why am I better than most you might ask yourself.... because "Most" do not take the time to ask their betters for help and advise, "most" do not learn from their mistakes, "most" do not work well in a team atmosphere, and finally "most" think that because I can strip your shields and go 3/4th the way through their hull that I must be a HACK or a Cheat and not bother with asking intelligent questions...
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Im not especially proud of my angry retort because not all feds act childish. Some are very decent people who can step-away from thier fandom to seek balance that does not erode faction diversity just like not all Klingons are Aholes like myself.
Im merely tired of the continuing outlook of "Im a fed and I deserve.......".
As to the Elite Disruptors, they will get nerfed soon enough I think becuase everything gets nerfed eventually.
Enjoy them like the feds enjoyed Old Phaser procs until then.
R.I.P
That -10% never gets any higher, ever.
It can be applied multiple times under a build designed to do so but the %value never changes.
#2) the Elite Disruptor proc is also a set -% shield resist value that does not change. EVER.
It may be possible to stack the proc on build but for this proc such should be limited to only a single effect.
#3) see #1 & #2
#4) So the F what? Many ideas to victory rely on overlapping effects from different sources.
R.I.P
2 : the phasers are up
3 : it needs a balance
I disagree.
I disagree.
If they are broken, sure.
R.I.P
This issue w/those kind of debuffs is that they are force multipliers, ie anyone attacking the debuffed target benefits. I also assume it's all shield resists and not just resists to disruptors.
Generally, the Power Creep wheel turns and one side is on top while the other is on the bottom. The bad part of the shield proc to me is it limits shield options (it tend to melt shields not specialized in resists), though it does help counter the ridiculousness of the fleet shield resists. I wouldn't mind if that added a lighter version on of that proc across factions that wasn't as strong and was only for debuffing a specific energy weapon type and toned down the Fleet shields stacking resists.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
We do not have the best surprise alpha ship, at least not when it comes to damage output. Fleet Defiant with cloaking console in the eng or sci slots does better due to 5 tac consoles. We have possibly more versatile decloak alpha ships due to the BoP, but I wouldn't say they're 'the best'.
Yes, I think every KDF player would gladly admit that the KDF has the best faction-specific battlecruisers in the game. This is a good thing, battlecruisers are one of the faction's remaining 'strengths'. Yes, we also have the edge in carriers and draining, and now an edge with the Elite Fleet weapons (the consoles are now almost all available to the Federation for much cheaper than what the KDF has to shell out for 'em).
Compare this to the intrinsic advantage that the Federation has in the form of better escorts, better science ships (which you conveniently downplay, despite the fact that this makes a huge difference in PvP) and now the advantage of Romulan ships compensating for your 'weakness' in cruisers and carriers. On top of that, you retain a large population advantage, which makes a difference in zones like Ker'rat (though this is a different issue, I'll grant).
PS: Oh, and speaking of Romulan ships: I will be eternally amused by the fact that after YEARS of whining about BoP tactics, Federation players are now using the exact same tactics with their battlecloaking Romulan ships, and apparently having no qualms about it. Hilarious.
Actually Roach...
Disruptors are affected by the DMG modifier. So if you have more of those on your weapons, the amount goes up.
Also, the Disruptor proc, normal one that is, is affected by Tac buffs; which is why a few consider Disruptors (normal ones) to be overpowered.
I would guess that the elite disruptor proc isn't affected by anything though.
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people always seem to forget the design philosophy that the devs have in mind when making this stuff:
Federation has more defensive measures and options for the most part. Not all of them of course, but most are more defense in how they act.
Phaser procs (disable an enemy rather than destroy it), the elite phaser shield heal, the Steamrunner console, etc.
Compared to the much more offensive Klingon side: Disruptors and Elite Disruptors, Theta, the Guramba, etc.
But this is a game of 'pew', so most people don't want to have the defensive stuff most of the time, hence the call outs on Klingon things being 'overpowered'. I mean that btw, do most people honestly do want a lot of extra defensive things? I mean, power creep has pretty much eliminated the need for much of it anyways, allowing everyone to have romulan sci consoles, dil mine engy consoles, elite fleet shields, Romulan BOFFs, and so on.
So again, everyone has all this extra defensive stuff, while not needing the extra Federation-specific stuff as much, and thus the call outs on Klingon things.
However, that doesn't make it OP. Say what you will about things in this game, but 'OP' is only in the eye of the beholder.
Anyways, I don't feel that these need a nerf. I said in an earlier post in this thread, that I would rather have OTHER means of reducing resists on shields. Like using Tachyon Beam, or CPB, or something else. Give us means of making shields weaker *cough* science and engy stuff* cough, then we can see if after that.
As it stands, you can SNB off someone's buffs, PSW an Extends off, but there's not really many ways of actually reducing shield resists.
We all hate dealing with super high shield resists, so why fuss so much over something that actually CAN lower those resists?
Agreed, against people running high shield resistances. . .about the only way to easily kill them would be to use bleedthrough damage (transphasics, plasma, DEM, normal bleedthrough, etc), or to somehow take their shields offline long enough to do sufficient damage. This can take some time, especially if they're also loaded up with some hull-heals and a high hull regen rate.
This part is largely not the root of the problem.
Your second part where you go into how -res is basically more useful in this game is closer.
The other part is sheer parity.
5 x players basically guaranteeing -hull and -shield res debuffs on a focused target is a gigantic boost to the force (team).
1 player procing a heal is not.
Even though 5 guys can all proc their heals at the same time, it's:
A) Still not a force multiplier.
If the Elite Fed phaser proc granted a teamwide +25% shield resistance boost, then it would actually be equivalent.
If they did get that, I'd be screaming just as loud because that would be just as much an awful design as the KDF fleet weapons are.
This is just another in a long line of special abilities that get given to KDF that are either wildly OP, problematic or just plain superior in some idiotic design philosophy that doesn't give them proper/newer ships and gives them horribly OP pets and consoles instead.
Meanwhile feds continually get an endless parade of new ships, but almost universally terrible consoles and special powers. A few exceptions not withstanding.
I think this topic is done to death though at this point. How well do those KvK and FvK queues pop, even now, with Feds having almost all of the toys KDF has - with a few last remaining (and notably problematic items) left to go?
The damage has been done and it has not been done to Fedside. Fedside doesn't get hurt when KDF gets items like the Elite Fleet Weapons - it hurts KDF side more.
I must say as someone that has only played KDF since launch I largely agree with this.
I have always pondered why the most "offensive" of the playable factions has such a poor "offensive" ship line-up compared to the one which is the antithesis of this.
From races to traits, KDF has always come out at the bottom. KDF is the only one that has no space trait. Romulan get bonus damage and cloaking, Humans get leadership, and what does KDF get but a handful of ground traits of no importance. Ground PvP is unofficially dead at the moment.
It would appear that Feds received better ships & stats, and to balance that KDF got better consoles and weapons at the expense of "weaker" ships.
But, then the console swapping started and the small advantage which the KDF did have to narrow the divide was given the the Feds and Roms just the same I started to realise that the KDF was already on the slippery downhill.
So where does the KDF stand now?
Aceton Assimilator - soon to be given to Feds.
Disruptors - not sure, although nearly equitable weapons found their way into a lockbox...
When these last two bastions of KDF uniqueness are remove, the KDF will be at a substantial disadvantage across the board.
Feds will have access to the best of everything. Already, there are even some respected PvP members who are open about the fact that the Feds now field escorts better than the JHAS, and to a certain degree its arguable that so do the Romulans.
I would be fine if the Federation got the edge in science ships and had cruisers that were better at tanking than our battlecruisers (which they are, at least in some instances). Those are the traditional Federation strengths. . .durable cruisers and advanced sciences. KDF strengths should be attack-heavy battlecruisers and escort-level ships that generally kick TRIBBLE. The weakness in the science field would be acceptable at that point, and the two factions could perhaps have carrier arms that are roughly equivalent but with different focuses. That would be my idea of a balanced selection of ship lines between the two factions.
Of course, then there's the issue of the Romulans. As any observant KDF player will note, the Federation has been using the Romulan ships to compensate for their traditional 'weaknesses'. . .that being the lack of burst-DPSing cruisers and the lack of cloaking ships. In fact, the Federation has been copying KDF BoP tactics when using their new Fed-Rom battlecloakers. . .this is after years of whining about BoPs. Meanwhile, the KDF didn't really gain as much from the Romulan faction in terms of supplementing their ships. . .we already had battlecruisers that could de-cloak alpha. We already had battlecloaking raiders (BoPs). The Romulan ship line is not at the point where it's fully compensating for the KDF's lack of science ships (though ships like the Ha'nom Guardian are helpful), and Romulan escorts are not anything that compensates for KDF weaknesses compared to the Federation options.
I presume you're talking mostly about premades here and while I agree with this statement to a large extent and very much share the amusement, I would like to point out that at least some of those players will only be 'Fed' because of a decision forced upon them at level 10, and, given your other point about the population issue, on which I think I also agree with you, it's hardly surprising. There is also the other issue of 'better dead than Red' :P
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Speaking of the Elite Disproc. Its a shield resist debuff, so why to the BOff abilities that restore debuffed shields to thier normal status not also work to remove this proc debuff?
If all the availible shield debuff removing abilities do work, then I see no issue with this proc.
If the proper shield healing powers do not remove this debuff, then why not?
R.I.P
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Are you saying the Disruptor Tac consoles increase the standard -10% hull resist debuff beyond that value.
R.I.P