First off, yes, I'd like if the D'Deridex had say turn 7-7.5 and for example lost some hull to ompensate, like KDF battle cruisers, BUT:
Yes, the Big D is a hollow ship. Still, it's got a far greater volume than the Galaxy (the head alone is - if I remember well - more voluminous than the Galaxy). So it's most likely got a greater mass. So generally, it's turn would be worse than of a Galaxy.
Yes, the Big D is named "Battle cruiser", so one would expect a more nimble ship. But it's also got a rather unique (carrier-like) Boff layout allowing for turn/speed bosting abilities. It's got a Battle cloak (if active, Battle cloak adds like 12 turn to the ship, in this case, basically doubling the turn rate). If you gave it a better turn, it would be pretty much strictly better in pretty much every category than most of FED cruisers.
Conclusion:
The way the game is built, D'Deridex must keep its low turn rate.
If they ever redo cruisers in general, then only can the D'Deridex gain some useful unbuffed/uncloaked turn.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Playing the teleporting Elachi missions with a D'dederix(with 3 RCS consoles) makes me want to /wrist. And unlike the other factions, the only choice of ship at that tier is a D'deridex.
I had a blast playing the expansion until I hit that part of the game.... the D'der quickly soured my mood.
Wow, the number of people who just handwash leads me to believe most of them never tried any ship with a low turn rate for any length of time. Turn rate that low is fine on a carrier, but on anything else it's a game killer.
The Vo'quv has the same turn rate. "It takes roughly 1 minute 20 seconds inside a system to do a complete 360? turn at three-quarter impulse with its standard impulse engines.":eek:
Lets take the best console, it's a 40% increase. Let's be generous and say that shaves 32 seconds off the turn. (It doesn't, it's much less)
Instead of a Neutronium console you Now slot an RCS. Turn rate time: 48 seconds to turn around.
Or written another way:
A small number (5) times another small number (1.4) is still a small number (7).
That is an eternity. I use a Vo'quv. Turning is a chore. It's not fun. Fortunately, my BoPs do all my damage for me. If I could log in right now I'd give you actual numbers, in degrees per second. And compare it to some of my other ships.
If they have to bump up every ship one notch, then do it. I don't see why though. This game makes no pretext of maintaining balance. Unless it affects how fast people can farm dilithium.
Since this has been a common complaint from even the early beta days. I don't think they'll fix it anytime soon.
Wow, the number of people who just handwash leads me to believe most of them never tried any ship with a low turn rate for any length of time.
Or maybe they have plenty of experience with such ships, and understand that flying one is a choice you embrace or don't.
Of course the very low turn rate is a hindrance. No one says it isn't. But it is a hindrance which can be overcome, and doing so separates those who are serious about using that ship from those who aren't.
The D'Deridex has a lot of advantages that help balance out its one major disadvantage. If you can't handle that disadvantage then luckily the Romulans have many other ships which are more maneuverable.
Or maybe they have plenty of experience with such ships, and understand that flying one is a choice you embrace or don't.
Of course the very low turn rate is a hindrance. No one says it isn't. But it is a hindrance which can be overcome, and doing so separates those who are serious about using that ship from those who aren't.
The D'Deridex has a lot of advantages that help balance out its one major disadvantage. If you can't handle that disadvantage then luckily the Romulans have many other ships which are more maneuverable.
* shrug *
I don't experience a problem with low turnrate ships myself. I've always run a ship with a turn of 5.5, 6, 7, or 8, and never had any problems because the ships were designed to minimize the need to point directly at the enemy, and I'm used to it. When I fly more manueverable ships, it's a nice change but I don't see much of an advantage to how I fight in the other ships. To me, the kind of turn rate in the D'D seems the norm and natural.
Maybe it's just that there are those who are used to flying Escorts and Science ships, and those who are used to flying Cruisers? I can see how someone used to Science or Escort turn rates would be unhappy at a Cruiser's performance, but really, a Cruiser isn't designed to require turning to be effective.
I flew the D'ridthau for one Mirror Invasion mission and dumped it afterwards. I went back to the Valdore Heavy Warbird, at least it doesn't handle like a floating space whale.
The DD series doesn't really feel like they have any redeeming value, slow turn rate, incredibly low inertia, slow impulse, terrible Tactical BOFF layouts with little to nothing to offset it.
If the PvE gameplay actually required slow moving space whales for tanking content, it may have had a niche to fill.
The tier 4 D'ridthau can have two lt tacs, I would like to know what tier 4 cruiser can do better than that? Feds can't and the Vorcha refit only has a lt and ens tac.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Ok, just ran a couple missions with the Tier 4 D'Deridex (note, I'm Subadmiral on that toon, I also got a Ha'feh) without any other turn boosts than the innate Battle cloak and the 'thrusters' skill (6 points as usual, I think).
It's perfectly capable to hold it's own with single cannons and turrets (and nicely fires the single cannons from the front, as in the shows). So it'd do a nice beamboat, or even a turret boat as well. -->Meaning there's plenty ways how to use it.
If you just have to use DHCs on it, then you need to think and adapt the ship. But no one forces you to.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
The problem is the scaling is off. The turn rate is too low for FUN. Forget canon (especially since Cryptic got it wrong with these two iconic ships). Ships on this scale or turning are just not fun.
Fix it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Help rebuild the Romulan Star Empire to glory. Click the banner to join today.
Wow, the number of people who just handwash leads me to believe most of them never tried any ship with a low turn rate for any length of time. Turn rate that low is fine on a carrier, but on anything else it's a game killer.
The Vo'quv has the same turn rate. "It takes roughly 1 minute 20 seconds inside a system to do a complete 360? turn at three-quarter impulse with its standard impulse engines.":eek:
Lets take the best console, it's a 40% increase. Let's be generous and say that shaves 32 seconds off the turn. (It doesn't, it's much less)
Instead of a Neutronium console you Now slot an RCS. Turn rate time: 48 seconds to turn around.
Or written another way:
A small number (5) times another small number (1.4) is still a small number (7).
That is an eternity. I use a Vo'quv. Turning is a chore. It's not fun. Fortunately, my BoPs do all my damage for me. If I could log in right now I'd give you actual numbers, in degrees per second. And compare it to some of my other ships.
If they have to bump up every ship one notch, then do it. I don't see why though. This game makes no pretext of maintaining balance. Unless it affects how fast people can farm dilithium.
Since this has been a common complaint from even the early beta days. I don't think they'll fix it anytime soon.
What are you basing this on though? They have made changes to basically everything that affects turn rate and give it more of a boost for heavier ships.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Do know that the D'deridex is meant to be as big as a Vo'Quv and fly like a giant Space Whale? Even more so than the Galaxy?
I fail to see the logic of people's complaints. The only gripe I can see don't lay with the ship as such, but actually the game mechanics. This game is incredibly biased to point where it makes Escorts reign supreme.
So in short, nag them to change the gameplay as Cryptic have surprisingly got the D'Deridex spot on.
Okay just read over all the posts from when I was sleeping, and seems one thing people agree on is that there would need to be some sort of trade off IF there was an increase in turn rate, so without catching to much hell...
Turn Rate increased to 6 (.5 increase)
Turn Rate buff while cloaked is decreased
And just to those saying that I want a hard hitter than can turn like an escort......HELL no I don't.
I actually really enjoy cruisers and other than because I grew up on TNG that's why I was so excited when they released that the D'deridex was going to be in LOR. I just keep feeling like I should as my main engineer if I should get out and push every time I need to turn. This has never been about making it nimble as an escort or any type of change that would fundamentally frak everything else up.
I was giving a min-max range before and for some reason people kept going to 8 or 9 for turn rate when I was talking about 6.5-7.5, but even 6 would be good.
The D'ridthau console and the D'deridex retrofit console.
The D'ridthau one is kind of nice, it gives you cover to cloak under fire. The retrofit isn't as good, but I can see it being useful crowd control in some specific ESTF roles.
Considering the D'Deridex' turn rate is directly pegged to the Galaxy's turn rate, and that changing the Galaxy's turn rate would necessitate a wholesale revision of Fed cruisers, what you're asking for isn't going to happen.
Turn rates for all cruisers should be looked out, they are terrible.
Cruisers should be slower than most Sci and Escort ships, but they aren't just slower, they are a lot slower, and then everything you might fight has movement debuffs, it starts to feel pretty useless.
Cruisers should bottom out at 8 and top out at 11 for their base rates, that would put top end cruisers just below most Sci ships, just like Top end Sci ships are in the low end of escort turn ranges.
Heh, sluggish turning D'Deridex's are quite canon. There has been no scene in all of Star Trek past or present, TV or movie depictions, where the D'Deridex has shown fancy meneuvering. Hell, they haven't shown even decent maneuvering when in combat. Nothing in TNG, DS9, or whatever. And the "Double D" has been one of the most frequently shown Non-Starfleet vessels shown in all of Star Trek. For such a long period of time, it was the ONLY Romulan warship shown on screen. And in all cases, no evidence of even decent handling.
The case can be made for a better handling Galaxy, because that ship has been repeatedly been shown to do good maneuvering. But not the Double D's.
Heh, sluggish turning D'Deridex's are quite canon. There has been no scene in all of Star Trek past or present, TV or movie depictions, where the D'Deridex has shown fancy meneuvering. Hell, they haven't shown even decent maneuvering when in combat. Nothing in TNG, DS9, or whatever. And the "Double D" has been one of the most frequently shown Non-Starfleet vessels shown in all of Star Trek. For such a long period of time, it was the ONLY Romulan warship shown on screen. And in all cases, no evidence of even decent handling.
The case can be made for a better handling Galaxy, because that ship has been repeatedly been shown to do good maneuvering. But not the Double D's.
There is no scene where a DD is shown doing any maneuvering, I think Tin Man is the only TNG episode where we even see one actually moving. That isn't a very good basis for how it should move.
But all this avoids the real point, cruiser turn rates just suck and the floor should be moved up for all of them.
Yeah the D'deridex turn rate simply stinks. I can go out for dinner and a movie before it can do a full circle. Even with RCS consoles and the appropriate skills.
Turn rates for all cruisers should be looked out, they are terrible.
Cruisers should be slower than most Sci and Escort ships, but they aren't just slower, they are a lot slower, and then everything you might fight has movement debuffs, it starts to feel pretty useless.
Cruisers should bottom out at 8 and top out at 11 for their base rates, that would put top end cruisers just below most Sci ships, just like Top end Sci ships are in the low end of escort turn ranges.
You know sci ships start at 9? (Nebula, Orb Weaver; then D'Kyr at 10; Varanus and Deep space SV at 11; Intrepid and Vesta at 12; Recon SV and Hope at 13; and Wells with Nova at 15)
They would also need to be buffed.
That said, yes, playing cruisers would be probably far more enjoyable if they were buffed in their turn rates. I believe cruisers in general (possibly even some carriers, ...) could get 1 more point of turn without there being any need for updating the turn rates of sci ships and escorts.
Adding more than 1 point would (I believe) prompt a revision of pretty much all turn rates.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I have not yet had a chance to play in a "Big D" but have played almost every single Fed Cruiser (short of all the C-Store cruisers except the Odyssey cruisers) since the game was first released.
From a "fun" point of view, there's obviously issues with the turn rate that the devs have at least unofficially acknowledged. For example, expanding the "pick-up" radius of items was a direct result of years of complaining by cruiser captains. It was simply unbareable to have to turn around to pick up an item, and then turn around again to continue the mission. I, and many others, literally left items behind because we couldn't be bothered to try to turn around and get them.
So, while there may be balance issues, it really pains me to think that they would even consider releasing a ship with a turn rate worse than a Galaxy (whether it's a carrier or cruiser). The Galaxy was aweful. I loved playing such an iconic ship, but by the time I hit Admiral I was ready to let that ship die in a fire and never look back. It just wasn't fun to play. Don't get me wrong, I built that ship properly. I focused on being a beam cruiser and had power transfer consoles so that I could run a 6 beam broadside without having TRIBBLE damage. I didn't have problems captaining the ship, it just wasn't fun to captain.
That's coming from some one who plays an operation's odyssey that can't turn fast enough to bring torpedos to bare against any borg ship except a cube. And I love my odyssey, I have a lot of fun playing it and don't have any complaints.
There's obviously going to be some questions about balance - although as it's been pointed out, escorts are already leaps and bounds ahead of most ships in PvP, so there's already balance issues. But balance aside, there's a fundamental problem with low turn rates, and that's that turn rates hinder your ability to actually play the game enjoyably when they become too low, regardless of how well your ship performs.
Let me reinterate that point: your ship can be the most powerful ship in the entire game, it can be iconic and be a "cool" ship to captain, but even if it has all that, given a sufficiently low turn rate you will stop enjoying the game for the simple matter that it takes to long to point your ship at the next objective, an item you want to pick up, whatever. That, in and of itself, is a flaw.
Is the Big D's turning so bad that it reaches that point of not being fun to play? I personally doubt it, as I plan to make a dual cannon build for my Big D (and I've already recognized the fact that I'm going to need turning consoles, I'm going to need BOff abilities to increase my turning, and I've been lucky enough to find the Helmsmen trait already). So, while I lack experience, I think I'm on board with those who say that the Big D is fine as is, and you need to learn to adjust your strategy to the ship you're flying.
However, I would caution those quick to dismiss complaints that turn rate has a direct correlation with the amount of fun you have playing the game regardless of how powerful a ship is, and if we aren't careful about accepting low turn rates, we're going to wind up with ships that just aren't fun to play regardless of how powerful they are.
The D'ridthau console and the D'deridex retrofit console.
The D'ridthau one is kind of nice, it gives you cover to cloak under fire. The retrofit isn't as good, but I can see it being useful crowd control in some specific ESTF roles.
The D'ridthau one essentially phases your ship reducing the damage your taking to essentially nothing while increasing your turn rate by 10.
Its more then just handy:)
I'm actually using a Big D with DHCs and Turrets....
My bridge officers are set up for cannons, my gear is set up for DHCs and Turrets all I'm missing is a ship that doesn't require me to cloak to turn:)
Honestly Cloaking to turn makes zero sense.
Cloaking tech requires you to reduce power and emissions to be effective so it should give a serious penalty to turn rate and speed, not boost it.
I mean seriously what do Romulans do while cloaking that makes thier ships maneuver better?
What I really want is the Enterprise Romulan Drone ship with its Holographic tech and adaptive weapons....
As a KDF player, I'm utterly unaccustomed to ships that can't turn. Oh sure, I tried the Vo'quv, way back when, when carrier pets were TRIBBLE. (Are they better now, btw? I assume so, I see carriers everywhere...)
I'm really looking forward to the challenge; and I really want to fly a D'Deridex build. I'm thinking single cannons with a torp for spike, and chained Aux2Damp... That'll be on my third Rom toon, though, working up a sci and a tac first.
Forget the turn rate, i want a romulan ship at that tier with commander tactical and NOT commander engineering
same for sci.
What's wrong with the Ha'feh Assault Warbird, or the Ha'nom Guardian Warbird, or the Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit, or the Dhelan Warbird Retrofit, or the T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit?
Heck, if for some reason none of those count, there's also the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser with it's Commander Universal slot.
Comments
First off, yes, I'd like if the D'Deridex had say turn 7-7.5 and for example lost some hull to ompensate, like KDF battle cruisers, BUT:
Yes, the Big D is a hollow ship. Still, it's got a far greater volume than the Galaxy (the head alone is - if I remember well - more voluminous than the Galaxy). So it's most likely got a greater mass. So generally, it's turn would be worse than of a Galaxy.
Yes, the Big D is named "Battle cruiser", so one would expect a more nimble ship. But it's also got a rather unique (carrier-like) Boff layout allowing for turn/speed bosting abilities. It's got a Battle cloak (if active, Battle cloak adds like 12 turn to the ship, in this case, basically doubling the turn rate). If you gave it a better turn, it would be pretty much strictly better in pretty much every category than most of FED cruisers.
Conclusion:
The way the game is built, D'Deridex must keep its low turn rate.
If they ever redo cruisers in general, then only can the D'Deridex gain some useful unbuffed/uncloaked turn.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I had a blast playing the expansion until I hit that part of the game.... the D'der quickly soured my mood.
The Vo'quv has the same turn rate. "It takes roughly 1 minute 20 seconds inside a system to do a complete 360? turn at three-quarter impulse with its standard impulse engines.":eek:
Lets take the best console, it's a 40% increase. Let's be generous and say that shaves 32 seconds off the turn. (It doesn't, it's much less)
Instead of a Neutronium console you Now slot an RCS. Turn rate time: 48 seconds to turn around.
Or written another way:
A small number (5) times another small number (1.4) is still a small number (7).
That is an eternity. I use a Vo'quv. Turning is a chore. It's not fun. Fortunately, my BoPs do all my damage for me. If I could log in right now I'd give you actual numbers, in degrees per second. And compare it to some of my other ships.
If they have to bump up every ship one notch, then do it. I don't see why though. This game makes no pretext of maintaining balance. Unless it affects how fast people can farm dilithium.
Since this has been a common complaint from even the early beta days. I don't think they'll fix it anytime soon.
Or maybe they have plenty of experience with such ships, and understand that flying one is a choice you embrace or don't.
Of course the very low turn rate is a hindrance. No one says it isn't. But it is a hindrance which can be overcome, and doing so separates those who are serious about using that ship from those who aren't.
The D'Deridex has a lot of advantages that help balance out its one major disadvantage. If you can't handle that disadvantage then luckily the Romulans have many other ships which are more maneuverable.
* shrug *
I don't experience a problem with low turnrate ships myself. I've always run a ship with a turn of 5.5, 6, 7, or 8, and never had any problems because the ships were designed to minimize the need to point directly at the enemy, and I'm used to it. When I fly more manueverable ships, it's a nice change but I don't see much of an advantage to how I fight in the other ships. To me, the kind of turn rate in the D'D seems the norm and natural.
Maybe it's just that there are those who are used to flying Escorts and Science ships, and those who are used to flying Cruisers? I can see how someone used to Science or Escort turn rates would be unhappy at a Cruiser's performance, but really, a Cruiser isn't designed to require turning to be effective.
The tier 4 D'ridthau can have two lt tacs, I would like to know what tier 4 cruiser can do better than that? Feds can't and the Vorcha refit only has a lt and ens tac.
It's perfectly capable to hold it's own with single cannons and turrets (and nicely fires the single cannons from the front, as in the shows). So it'd do a nice beamboat, or even a turret boat as well. -->Meaning there's plenty ways how to use it.
If you just have to use DHCs on it, then you need to think and adapt the ship. But no one forces you to.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Fix it.
Help rebuild the Romulan Star Empire to glory. Click the banner to join today.
What are you basing this on though? They have made changes to basically everything that affects turn rate and give it more of a boost for heavier ships.
I fail to see the logic of people's complaints. The only gripe I can see don't lay with the ship as such, but actually the game mechanics. This game is incredibly biased to point where it makes Escorts reign supreme.
So in short, nag them to change the gameplay as Cryptic have surprisingly got the D'Deridex spot on.
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
Turn Rate increased to 6 (.5 increase)
Turn Rate buff while cloaked is decreased
And just to those saying that I want a hard hitter than can turn like an escort......HELL no I don't.
I actually really enjoy cruisers and other than because I grew up on TNG that's why I was so excited when they released that the D'deridex was going to be in LOR. I just keep feeling like I should as my main engineer if I should get out and push every time I need to turn. This has never been about making it nimble as an escort or any type of change that would fundamentally frak everything else up.
I was giving a min-max range before and for some reason people kept going to 8 or 9 for turn rate when I was talking about 6.5-7.5, but even 6 would be good.
No, the Vorcha and the Excelsior are linked in Geko's spreadsheet. Not the Vorcha and the Galaxy.
Is there any particular reason why its linked to the Excelsior and not the Galaxy?
T4 Galaxy and T4 Vor'cha have seven differences: hulls, crew, turn rate, DHC, cloak, power, and device slots.
T5 Excelsior and T5 Vor'cha have nine differences: hulls, crew, turn rate, DHC, cloak, power, device slots, inertia, and boff layout.
The T4s are more similar to each other than the T5s.
Some secrets Geko keeps to himself. Though maybe he'll reveal that one in a future podcast?
Really? Who knew "(Fleet) D'deridex Warbird Battle Cruiser (Retrofit)" meant "(Fleet) D'deridex Warbird Cruiser (Retrofit)"?! =P
Special Consoles equipped give the D'D a turning boost.
And those consoles would be...
The D'ridthau console and the D'deridex retrofit console.
The D'ridthau one is kind of nice, it gives you cover to cloak under fire. The retrofit isn't as good, but I can see it being useful crowd control in some specific ESTF roles.
Turn rates for all cruisers should be looked out, they are terrible.
Cruisers should be slower than most Sci and Escort ships, but they aren't just slower, they are a lot slower, and then everything you might fight has movement debuffs, it starts to feel pretty useless.
Cruisers should bottom out at 8 and top out at 11 for their base rates, that would put top end cruisers just below most Sci ships, just like Top end Sci ships are in the low end of escort turn ranges.
The case can be made for a better handling Galaxy, because that ship has been repeatedly been shown to do good maneuvering. But not the Double D's.
There is no scene where a DD is shown doing any maneuvering, I think Tin Man is the only TNG episode where we even see one actually moving. That isn't a very good basis for how it should move.
But all this avoids the real point, cruiser turn rates just suck and the floor should be moved up for all of them.
You know sci ships start at 9? (Nebula, Orb Weaver; then D'Kyr at 10; Varanus and Deep space SV at 11; Intrepid and Vesta at 12; Recon SV and Hope at 13; and Wells with Nova at 15)
They would also need to be buffed.
That said, yes, playing cruisers would be probably far more enjoyable if they were buffed in their turn rates. I believe cruisers in general (possibly even some carriers, ...) could get 1 more point of turn without there being any need for updating the turn rates of sci ships and escorts.
Adding more than 1 point would (I believe) prompt a revision of pretty much all turn rates.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
From a "fun" point of view, there's obviously issues with the turn rate that the devs have at least unofficially acknowledged. For example, expanding the "pick-up" radius of items was a direct result of years of complaining by cruiser captains. It was simply unbareable to have to turn around to pick up an item, and then turn around again to continue the mission. I, and many others, literally left items behind because we couldn't be bothered to try to turn around and get them.
So, while there may be balance issues, it really pains me to think that they would even consider releasing a ship with a turn rate worse than a Galaxy (whether it's a carrier or cruiser). The Galaxy was aweful. I loved playing such an iconic ship, but by the time I hit Admiral I was ready to let that ship die in a fire and never look back. It just wasn't fun to play. Don't get me wrong, I built that ship properly. I focused on being a beam cruiser and had power transfer consoles so that I could run a 6 beam broadside without having TRIBBLE damage. I didn't have problems captaining the ship, it just wasn't fun to captain.
That's coming from some one who plays an operation's odyssey that can't turn fast enough to bring torpedos to bare against any borg ship except a cube. And I love my odyssey, I have a lot of fun playing it and don't have any complaints.
There's obviously going to be some questions about balance - although as it's been pointed out, escorts are already leaps and bounds ahead of most ships in PvP, so there's already balance issues. But balance aside, there's a fundamental problem with low turn rates, and that's that turn rates hinder your ability to actually play the game enjoyably when they become too low, regardless of how well your ship performs.
Let me reinterate that point: your ship can be the most powerful ship in the entire game, it can be iconic and be a "cool" ship to captain, but even if it has all that, given a sufficiently low turn rate you will stop enjoying the game for the simple matter that it takes to long to point your ship at the next objective, an item you want to pick up, whatever. That, in and of itself, is a flaw.
Is the Big D's turning so bad that it reaches that point of not being fun to play? I personally doubt it, as I plan to make a dual cannon build for my Big D (and I've already recognized the fact that I'm going to need turning consoles, I'm going to need BOff abilities to increase my turning, and I've been lucky enough to find the Helmsmen trait already). So, while I lack experience, I think I'm on board with those who say that the Big D is fine as is, and you need to learn to adjust your strategy to the ship you're flying.
However, I would caution those quick to dismiss complaints that turn rate has a direct correlation with the amount of fun you have playing the game regardless of how powerful a ship is, and if we aren't careful about accepting low turn rates, we're going to wind up with ships that just aren't fun to play regardless of how powerful they are.
The D'ridthau one essentially phases your ship reducing the damage your taking to essentially nothing while increasing your turn rate by 10.
Its more then just handy:)
I'm actually using a Big D with DHCs and Turrets....
My bridge officers are set up for cannons, my gear is set up for DHCs and Turrets all I'm missing is a ship that doesn't require me to cloak to turn:)
Honestly Cloaking to turn makes zero sense.
Cloaking tech requires you to reduce power and emissions to be effective so it should give a serious penalty to turn rate and speed, not boost it.
I mean seriously what do Romulans do while cloaking that makes thier ships maneuver better?
What I really want is the Enterprise Romulan Drone ship with its Holographic tech and adaptive weapons....
I'm really looking forward to the challenge; and I really want to fly a D'Deridex build. I'm thinking single cannons with a torp for spike, and chained Aux2Damp... That'll be on my third Rom toon, though, working up a sci and a tac first.
same for sci.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
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What's wrong with the Ha'feh Assault Warbird, or the Ha'nom Guardian Warbird, or the Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit, or the Dhelan Warbird Retrofit, or the T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit?
Heck, if for some reason none of those count, there's also the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser with it's Commander Universal slot.