What do you mean by the 2nd point? It seemed to me like they (Elachi) were pretty much done with.
As far as I can tell, you can only meet them by replaying missions. Maybe there's one space event with them, not entirely sure about that.
Sure we destroyed 1 subspace station, but that doesn't mean there won't be more. Also Remember that mission where you defend New romulus from the Elachi fleet......replay the mission if you don't know where this is going and pay close attention to the end of the battle.
Well, memory alpha says;
Technical Data:
"The D'deridex-class warbird was classified as a battle cruiser by Starfleet. Using a forced quantum singularity as a power source and the latest in Romulan cloaking technology, the D'deridex was not only one of the most advanced vessels in the Romulan Star Empire, but also in the Alpha Quadrant. These warbirds were roughly twice as long as a Federation Galaxy-class starship with a lower overall maximum speed. "
Size is not the same as mass. Mass isn't mentioned. So where does "it is ridiculusly massive" conclusion come from? It says most advanced, large, but not heavy or massive.
Physical Arangement:
"The outboard plan of the warbird's design incorporated a unique, horizontally split "shell" hull design, with a prominent forward section. The bulk of the ship's overall size was incorporated in the open-shell, which resembled two separate "wings" that met at either side at the warp nacelles, at the "tail" and off the "neck", which was connected to the "head" or primary forward hull section. The "head" featured the bridge, main engineering, and a majority of the primary weapon systems of the vessel."
A hollow design with engines on the out hull? That almost becomes a disc with oposite engines. Sounds good for spinning, doesn't it?
Memory Alpha in no way contradicts my statement that the D'deridex has less mass than the Galaxy. Yes, it is larger, but the design is 80% open volume. The Galaxy class has two compact sections with overall more internal volume. And this volume is fully structured, not hollow. Nor does Memory Alpha contradict that the Warbird is agile. Speed and agility is not the same. I again say;
And I stand by this. Watch the episode. See it turn fast. Its in the episode. Its canon.
Have you ever seen the galaxy? It's a disk with a larger protrusion as secondary hull and another two protrusions as warp nacelles.
If you take the big D as twice the length of a galaxy, then the upper wing alone has the volume of galaxy's saucer and secondary hull. The lower wing then outweights the neck and nacelles of the galaxy. And then you got the very large head...
At first I thought this was sarcasm, until I read the rest of your post.
Part of the problem with the D'deridex is that it takes ages to accelerate and decelerate. No console can make up for that lack of control. The lack of control is from the low inertia rating of 15. So i have absolutely no idea what you mean by "fantastic inertia".
Are you sure it's not 30, which would be the same as Vor'cha, Galaxy, Sovereign. For the size, it'd very nice (the Ha'feh, that functions as an escort, the inertia is 40, a little bit unfortunate when playing ). I'll look and check... EDIT: Yes, the inertia of the D'Deridex is 30, same as the Vor'cha, Sovereign and Galaxy. Fairly good.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Then back to a D'deridex decloaking, turning like a boss and killing transports? That's easily accomplished by hitting Evasive Maneuvers. You never see a D'deridex turn quickly constantly, just in short bursts, like the Galaxy. In all honesty, the only ships you see in the show being nimble constantly are BoPs and the Defiant. Everything else is a little sluggish, but moves like a boss in short bursts.
Nor does Memory Alpha contradict that the Warbird is agile. Speed and agility is not the same. I again say;
And I stand by this. Watch the episode. See it turn fast. Its in the episode. Its canon.
How does the D'deridex do that? Answered.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
EDIT: Yes, the inertia of the D'Deridex is 30, same as the Vor'cha, Sovereign and Galaxy. Fairly good.
Thanks for looking it up.
That was my point it feels like the vorcha flying it even though the base turn is a lot lower... with the better shield mod and battle cloak ect... I think you can get away with another RCS unit for sure which just about evens the 2 out... accept that the DD still out classes the vorcha in a lot of other ways.
The DD is a very solid battle cruiser with a great boff layout... and the singularity powers give its some very nice situational sci options.
Overall its one of the best battle cruisers I have played around with, and I have played around with them all. Sometimes not being able to turn on a dime is workable... the way ships with the high inertia numbers turn can be a huge advantage. I will say of course that piloting a high inertia ship properly isn't exactly easy mode... I can understand a lot of people not being able to control it properly. The design though is solid.
You know, I just realized/remembered that the D'deridex has a Battle-cloak. So why does turn rate really matter that much? You can sneak around and get into position whilst invisible. XD
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
You know, I just realized/remembered that the D'deridex has a Battle-cloak. So why does turn rate really matter that much? You can sneak around and get into position whilst invisible. XD
Because you shouldn't have to cloak every time you want to turn.
My Fleet D'deridex has a turn rate of 13. That's with max skills in maneuvering and impulse thrusters, roughly 60 power to engines at any given time, a single MK XI purple RCS accelerator (which is actually just as good as the dual console turnrate set), and the helmsman trait. For its size, my D'deridex turns perfectly well; especially when one remembers that the Sovereign's turn rate without a RCS console is about the same. When cloaked, she powerslides and spins like a top, much to my frustration and my fleetmates' amusement.
I'm in the free D'deridex at the moment, I've just put 2 rcs consoles in to improve it's poor turn, plus the D'Deridex was never that agile to begin with.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I wouldn't complain about the turn rate on the Double D since it is such a big ship, but I think it should get a flat bonus to both shields and weapons power so that it hits harder and can take a more serious beating than it can now.
Right now there isn't much advantage to flying the Double D other than the looks.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Seriously you guys are arguing physics about a ship that operates due to technology basically better described as magic.
I mean, come on.
Let's just agree it has a bad turn rate and there are a ton of options for improving it at the cost of those very BOFF slots that would make the ship useful, and call it a day, hm?
I hear what you're saying, OP. But... sad truth is that while Everybody wants to fly the Big D, its still only a T4 ship, so its only good for misison episodes and storage. Its not a viable end-game ship, therefore it does not need to be made into one.
yeah, because its not like theres a refit or anything.
Please refer back to my original post as I'm about to update it with the gear,etc. that I used to get my T5 D'deridex turning pretty solidly WITHOUT using boff skills, cloak, or Cap abilities.
- Console - Universal - Molecular Phase Inversion Field
[Genetic Resequencer - Space Trait: Helmsman]
Console - Tachyokinetic Converter
It is nothing short of ridiculous that to even make the ship perform above mediocrity at end game PvE, you have to invest considerable amounts of Energy Credits, Zen/Dil and Lobi crystals which other ships doesn't have to.
It is nothing short of ridiculous that to even make the ship perform above mediocrity at end game PvE, you have to invest considerable amounts of Energy Credits, Zen/Dil and Lobi crystals which other ships doesn't have to.
I cleaned all the junk out of my banks on a couple of characters and got the EC to buy the RCS and Special trait. I had bought the legacy pack so I had 30 keys that I opened boxes with to get the lobi console with plus EC left over so it wasn't all that bad.
I agree it shouldn't be necessary to go to such lengths, but it proved an interesting challenge to come up with a good way to increase turn rate without sacrificing a lot of console slots and boff abilities.
The fun part is going to be attempting Tour the Universe with the new changes I've made. I didn't get a chance to play around with it in slipstream yet.
It is nothing short of ridiculous that to even make the ship perform above mediocrity at end game PvE, you have to invest considerable amounts of Energy Credits, Zen/Dil and Lobi crystals which other ships doesn't have to.
Compared to what other ships? All of the top end-game builds I see floating around out there have to invest heavily in gear. From Aux2Batt cruisers to Plasma pumping escorts.
It seems like a simple solution which would also help improve cruiser viability in general without ruining balance, Just make RCS consoles give flat turn rate bonus.
It seems like a simple solution which would also help improve cruiser viability in general without ruining balance, Just make RCS consoles give flat turn rate bonus.
RCS consoles have already been improved significantly, as have Impulse Thrusters. Tbh, I don't see the issue with the D'deridex. All you do is put 7 points into impulse thrusters, warp core potential, warp core efficiency, Engine Performance, one RCS mk XI or mk XII blue, a mk XII impulse engine with a [turn] mod or two, and BAM, you have a ship with a turn rate of 14-16 at 25 engine power. Not hard people.
And if you need to move around... oh I dunno, perhaps divert more power to engines? My Odyssey with NO points in impulse thrusters, NO RCS, and with the saucer still on has a turn rate of almost 15 with all power diverted to engines. It's a relatively simple thing. Need to move better? MOAR POWA. HERP.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Compared to what other ships? All of the top end-game builds I see floating around out there have to invest heavily in gear. From Aux2Batt cruisers to Plasma pumping escorts.
You missed the point entirely. The baseline performance level for such a slow/sliding ship is lower than other T5 ships. The above investments brings the ship up to reasonable levels, where as those similar caliber improvements would bring a proper ship to far beyond reasonable levels.
RCS consoles have already been improved significantly, as have Impulse Thrusters. Tbh, I don't see the issue with the D'deridex. All you do is put 7 points into impulse thrusters, warp core potential, warp core efficiency, Engine Performance, one RCS mk XI or mk XII blue, a mk XII impulse engine with a [turn] mod or two, and BAM, you have a ship with a turn rate of 14-16 at 25 engine power. Not hard people.
And if you need to move around... oh I dunno, perhaps divert more power to engines? My Odyssey with NO points in impulse thrusters, NO RCS, and with the saucer still on has a turn rate of almost 15 with all power diverted to engines. It's a relatively simple thing. Need to move better? MOAR POWA. HERP.
14 to 16 is a joke. nothing less then 25 is competitive at end game if you want to use good energy weapons.
You missed the point entirely. The baseline performance level for such a slow/sliding ship is lower than other T5 ships. The above investments brings the ship up to reasonable levels, where as those similar caliber improvements would bring a proper ship to far beyond reasonable levels.
Nah, I think you missed the point. Those improvements for the D'Deridex are completely different than what other ships need to be competitive.
But all ships require a lot of gear investment. The D'D requires different gear than a Patrol Escort. But they both require substantial gear investment.
I think the best fix for this would be to NOT up the turn rates of the DD or other cruisers but instead up the damage a bit for beams. That way a true beam boat would still be viable and turn rates wouldn't be as much of an issue.
I have flown cruisers since launch and loved the broadsiding aspect of beam boats but now due to their lack of damage, it just isn't as effective anymore especially when you can fly an escort like the Andorian one and blast the hell out of an enemy in very short order. Where a beam boat would take twice if not three times as long to pop that same enemy.
I think the best fix for this would be to NOT up the turn rates of the DD or other cruisers but instead up the damage a bit for beams. That way a true beam boat would still be viable and turn rates wouldn't be as much of an issue.
I have flown cruisers since launch and loved the broadsiding aspect of beam boats but now due to their lack of damage, it just isn't as effective anymore especially when you can fly an escort like the Andorian one and blast the hell out of an enemy in very short order. Where a beam boat would take twice if not three times as long to pop that same enemy.
Good concept, but it has one fatal flaw. If you simply increased the damage output of beams you would have escorts using beams which would just further drive the divide between cruiser and escort because then escorts wouldn't have the limited firing arc.
The only way this would be a viable solution would be if cruisers were given an innate % increase to beam weapons.
Right now with the layout I've got in my first post I'm pulling 14+ turn rates so it's possible to run a variety of builds. I'm still using the base weapons because I haven't had the chance or the EC to fully upgrade it, but so far I can bring the fore and aft to bare somewhat reliably. with the higher turn rate it's like driving a rear wheel drive sports car on a wet road, it wants to fish tail everywhere.
Good concept, but it has one fatal flaw. If you simply increased the damage output of beams you would have escorts using beams which would just further drive the divide between cruiser and escort because then escorts wouldn't have the limited firing arc.
The only way this would be a viable solution would be if cruisers were given an innate % increase to beam weapons.
Right now with the layout I've got in my first post I'm pulling 14+ turn rates so it's possible to run a variety of builds. I'm still using the base weapons because I haven't had the chance or the EC to fully upgrade it, but so far I can bring the fore and aft to bare somewhat reliably. with the higher turn rate it's like driving a rear wheel drive sports car on a wet road, it wants to fish tail everywhere.
Too bad you can't have cruiser-specific beam arrays that have greatly increased damage with much lower power drain to encourage the beamboat builds. The beam-arrays would be unable to fit on the faster warbirds, Birds of Prey, Science Vessels, Escorts, or the Klingon Raptors (their Escort equivalent I think).
Then fly a different ship if all that matters is baseline PvP metrics?
Like a Mogai?
Yeah, I have to agree here.
At some point people need to just come to terms with the fact that not every single ship has been designed as a fast moving damage dealer.
The DD is already better off than other "big ships" like the Galaxy or Ody, that quite frankly are bizarrely dwarfed by the DD in this game through the use of a decent console set with consoles that aren't actually terrible like the Ody set consoles.
Comments
Sure we destroyed 1 subspace station, but that doesn't mean there won't be more. Also Remember that mission where you defend New romulus from the Elachi fleet......replay the mission if you don't know where this is going and pay close attention to the end of the battle.
If you take the big D as twice the length of a galaxy, then the upper wing alone has the volume of galaxy's saucer and secondary hull. The lower wing then outweights the neck and nacelles of the galaxy. And then you got the very large head...
Are you sure it's not 30, which would be the same as Vor'cha, Galaxy, Sovereign. For the size, it'd very nice (the Ha'feh, that functions as an escort, the inertia is 40, a little bit unfortunate when playing
EDIT: Yes, the inertia of the D'Deridex is 30, same as the Vor'cha, Sovereign and Galaxy. Fairly good.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
How does the D'deridex do that? Answered.
Thanks for looking it up.
That was my point it feels like the vorcha flying it even though the base turn is a lot lower... with the better shield mod and battle cloak ect... I think you can get away with another RCS unit for sure which just about evens the 2 out... accept that the DD still out classes the vorcha in a lot of other ways.
The DD is a very solid battle cruiser with a great boff layout... and the singularity powers give its some very nice situational sci options.
Overall its one of the best battle cruisers I have played around with, and I have played around with them all. Sometimes not being able to turn on a dime is workable... the way ships with the high inertia numbers turn can be a huge advantage. I will say of course that piloting a high inertia ship properly isn't exactly easy mode... I can understand a lot of people not being able to control it properly. The design though is solid.
Because you shouldn't have to cloak every time you want to turn.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Right now there isn't much advantage to flying the Double D other than the looks.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
I mean, come on.
Let's just agree it has a bad turn rate and there are a ton of options for improving it at the cost of those very BOFF slots that would make the ship useful, and call it a day, hm?
*puts on best cockney accent*
"YOU'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO USE THE BLOODY CLOAK!"
Sorry. It had to be done
yeah, because its not like theres a refit or anything.
It is nothing short of ridiculous that to even make the ship perform above mediocrity at end game PvE, you have to invest considerable amounts of Energy Credits, Zen/Dil and Lobi crystals which other ships doesn't have to.
I cleaned all the junk out of my banks on a couple of characters and got the EC to buy the RCS and Special trait. I had bought the legacy pack so I had 30 keys that I opened boxes with to get the lobi console with plus EC left over so it wasn't all that bad.
I agree it shouldn't be necessary to go to such lengths, but it proved an interesting challenge to come up with a good way to increase turn rate without sacrificing a lot of console slots and boff abilities.
the + to offensive seems to make it worth it...
This ship, which should have been an awesome cruiser, is turning faster if you sit dead in the water!
That can't be something the Romulans would ever design.
Join the Deltas today!
Compared to what other ships? All of the top end-game builds I see floating around out there have to invest heavily in gear. From Aux2Batt cruisers to Plasma pumping escorts.
RCS consoles have already been improved significantly, as have Impulse Thrusters. Tbh, I don't see the issue with the D'deridex. All you do is put 7 points into impulse thrusters, warp core potential, warp core efficiency, Engine Performance, one RCS mk XI or mk XII blue, a mk XII impulse engine with a [turn] mod or two, and BAM, you have a ship with a turn rate of 14-16 at 25 engine power. Not hard people.
And if you need to move around... oh I dunno, perhaps divert more power to engines? My Odyssey with NO points in impulse thrusters, NO RCS, and with the saucer still on has a turn rate of almost 15 with all power diverted to engines. It's a relatively simple thing. Need to move better? MOAR POWA. HERP.
You missed the point entirely. The baseline performance level for such a slow/sliding ship is lower than other T5 ships. The above investments brings the ship up to reasonable levels, where as those similar caliber improvements would bring a proper ship to far beyond reasonable levels.
14 to 16 is a joke. nothing less then 25 is competitive at end game if you want to use good energy weapons.
Nah, I think you missed the point. Those improvements for the D'Deridex are completely different than what other ships need to be competitive.
But all ships require a lot of gear investment. The D'D requires different gear than a Patrol Escort. But they both require substantial gear investment.
Then fly a different ship if all that matters is baseline PvP metrics?
Like a Mogai?
I have flown cruisers since launch and loved the broadsiding aspect of beam boats but now due to their lack of damage, it just isn't as effective anymore especially when you can fly an escort like the Andorian one and blast the hell out of an enemy in very short order. Where a beam boat would take twice if not three times as long to pop that same enemy.
Good concept, but it has one fatal flaw. If you simply increased the damage output of beams you would have escorts using beams which would just further drive the divide between cruiser and escort because then escorts wouldn't have the limited firing arc.
The only way this would be a viable solution would be if cruisers were given an innate % increase to beam weapons.
Right now with the layout I've got in my first post I'm pulling 14+ turn rates so it's possible to run a variety of builds. I'm still using the base weapons because I haven't had the chance or the EC to fully upgrade it, but so far I can bring the fore and aft to bare somewhat reliably. with the higher turn rate it's like driving a rear wheel drive sports car on a wet road, it wants to fish tail everywhere.
Too bad you can't have cruiser-specific beam arrays that have greatly increased damage with much lower power drain to encourage the beamboat builds. The beam-arrays would be unable to fit on the faster warbirds, Birds of Prey, Science Vessels, Escorts, or the Klingon Raptors (their Escort equivalent I think).
Yeah, I have to agree here.
At some point people need to just come to terms with the fact that not every single ship has been designed as a fast moving damage dealer.
The DD is already better off than other "big ships" like the Galaxy or Ody, that quite frankly are bizarrely dwarfed by the DD in this game through the use of a decent console set with consoles that aren't actually terrible like the Ody set consoles.