What is it with people who don't understand how RCS consoles work? RCS grants you a turn rate increase that is a PERCENTAGE of the ship's base turn rate. The lower your ship's base turn rate is, the less increase you are going to get from RCS.
Simply put, RCS consoles are meant for ESCORT class ships. High base rate of turn, high increase granted from RCS.
The D'Dex is a cruiser, and is going to behave like a cruiser. Throw all the turn rate consoles at it you want, you're not going to make it turn like an escort... and you end up gimping your usefulness in combat b/c several console slots are tied up.
The BEST way to get maneuverability out of the D'Dex is liberal use of EPtE, Evasive maneuvers and cloaking.
Or just skip the whole turning thing. I hear its over rated in PvP. :rolleyes:
Seriously, he's right. What it takes to make the D'D turn isn't worth it for PvP. Just go beamboat and forego the frustration. Because damage is also over rated.:D
In STF's, making circles in a slow turning ship while firing at a stationary target like a cube, while having the throttle at full, puts you out of range a good 1/3rd of the time. Otherwise you have to slow down or come to a complete stop which puts your defense rating to zero.
IF the maximum range weapons fired were extended from 10k to 20k it wouldn't be such a big deal, then cruisers wouldn't have to STOP just to fire at a target.
Why is the max range so short anyways, it's like 15 D'deridex lengths. That is stupidly ridiculously short. It's melee range.
You know what would be better than damage reduction at range? Accuracy reduction at range.
Sorry, but what's the issue with the D'Deridex's turn rates?
I'm used to a Recluse, so turn rates in the 5-6 range are typical for me. (Imagine how dizzy I get flying my escorts! )
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I've rummaged through several of these threads, but haven't found what I'm looking for...so much angst...but this thread seems to have the right idea.
I'd like to know if anyone's got a breakdown of how each "tweak' adds to the turn rate. For example, I know the two zen consoles add 2 to the turn rate, bringing it up to 7.5 (which would work just fine for me). But how much do other items help?
An RCS console does 10%...does that mean it would increase the turn rate to 6 (for the fleet version)? What about various impulse engines?
I'm perfectly fine with a low turn speed, though 5 is a bit too low--just looking for ways to increase it without spending cold hard cash. Haven't gotten to play it yet as i level, but I'd like it as an end game ship with all beams, going for a shield stripping build.
After faffing about in my scimi for the past few weeks, thought i'd jump back into my fleet D'deridex..
Lets just say I promptly jumped back out again!! BO slot layout just seems all wrong & the turn speed... I wanted to jump into the vacuum of space & kick it to get things moving!!
I know I can fit an RCS but if I do that, it's gimping my setup.
They need to go back to this ship & have a serious look.. Enough said.
a look at what? a 1200meter across warship? you really think its going to bounce like a fighter?
Somehow the Scimitar even though it is even bigger than the D'deridex is incredibly agile. As is the Tal Shiar adapted battlecruiser which is over 50% more massive than the D'deridex (and is by mass probably the biggest ingame playable ship) yet has nearly 50% more turnrate.
If you look at the D'deridex in the series its not really shown as a slow turner (neither is the Galaxy btw, but that's another topic) in fact, in several episodes you see it making 180 turns nearly instantly (ex. TNG episode Pegasus)
a look at what? a 1200meter across warship? you really think its going to bounce like a fighter?
Constructive reply :rolleyes:
And reading your other replies, does make us wonder if you've ever flown the scimi so know what comparisons people are making regarding the slow turn rate, ect..
*claps hands... slowly*
And please take your half baked physics quotes elsewhere. This is a game, not real life :cool:
Hi there. Has someone experimented with the new consoles from the fleet dil mine ? (RCS consoles that double as resistance plating and turnrate improving neutronium plates)
D'Deridex is similar to the Galaxy a very iconic ship I would buy just for that reason alone. Under the condition it works somehow. Boff seating is way better than on the poor Galaxy, so it is down to turnrate. (Even as a beam ship I found the captain level ship a bit lacking in that regard)
So, any people willing to share their experience ?
ships in the Battleship line dont need a boost to turn rate thet all need about a 150% boost to Damage and Hull and shields
you know
like a battleship is soposed to have verses something that can land in its shuttle bay which outguns in in this game
STO says
If its smaller its more powerful !!!
I already know every escort arguement and there all Void and fail
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Hi there. Has someone experimented with the new consoles from the fleet dil mine ? (RCS consoles that double as resistance plating and turnrate improving neutronium plates)
D'Deridex is similar to the Galaxy a very iconic ship I would buy just for that reason alone. Under the condition it works somehow. Boff seating is way better than on the poor Galaxy, so it is down to turnrate. (Even as a beam ship I found the captain level ship a bit lacking in that regard)
So, any people willing to share their experience ?
I have avoided those +TurnRate consoles for two main reasons.
1) The +HullRep modifier is far more useful to recoup lost hull due to the weaker dmg resist on all Romulan vessels.
2) A ship that only turns at a rate of 5 or 5.5 is not going to get much out of a 20% boost. That makes the ship turn like a Galaxy, and you don't get the aforementioned +HullRep bonus.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Seriously, the D'D works fine as a beamboat in PvP. Its completely comparable to fed beamboats. The only reason people are complaining is that they want to use cannons or can't play a cruiser build. The D'D can actually utilize some of the other singularity powers besides jump and absorbtion. KDF pugs need less BOPs, Dhelans, Tvaro's, and bugs and more cruiser/battlecruiser type ships. Sure when there are elite KDF players it works out ok, but when you run into a coule of good Fed SCi players or dont have good KDF players all the cloakers drop like flies. Don't any of you ever get tired of escort pew pew all the time?
BTW, give up trying to turn the D'D with consoles (its not worth it) and just reposition with cloak, kinda like how they do it in the shows
The only thing that bothers me about the D"Deridex having such a horrendous turn rate is that fact that they gave the Scimitar, a much larger ship, a better turn rate. It's not based on anything other then Cryptic wanted to sell the Scimitar 3 pack and if it had a turn rate of 5 people would have been more hesitant to make the purchase. I just wish they would base the turn rate of ships on size/mass instead of...whatever we feel like giving the ship.
How do you guys have problems with your turn rates? I've got one RCS console equipped and it turns fine even more so when cloaked. I use mine in strafing runs... decloak, fire off my cannons and torps and rear weapons and cloak up again. Either that or make good use of EM with helmsman trait and good BOFFs.
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How do you guys have problems with your turn rates? I've got one RCS console equipped and it turns fine even more so when cloaked. I use mine in strafing runs... decloak, fire off my cannons and torps and rear weapons and cloak up again. Either that or make good use of EM with helmsman trait and good BOFFs.
Its doable on slow tgts your way. But since I primarily PvP with the D'D toon nowadays (maxed out rep) that wont work against all the escorts in PvP. So I just adopted a zombie cruiser type build and try to keep up pressure and draw attention while the BOPs and Dhelans do their thing. Now if I had the scimi two set bonus on the D'D I would follow your suggestion all the time.
Now if I had the scimi two set bonus on the D'D I would follow your suggestion all the time.
Doesn't the double D have it's own two piece set that you get from the refit and retrofit? Last I checked that gives you a nice bonus to engines and turn.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I don't need to turn when I have disruptors that point the direction I want to go. If I want to go somewhere quickly, I just use evasive maneuvers and emergency power to engines. Helmsman trait, and the 2 piece D'Deridex set. And there's also the phase cloak turn rate bonus and the battle cloak turn rate bonus.
Seriously, if you want a warbird that turns faster, you have plenty to choose from. The Fleet D'Deridex has the most HP of any warbird. It's a juggernaut. It can be indestructable if you want it to be, and you have plenty of tools of the trade if you need to go somewhere quickly.
I won't complain if it gets a turn rate boost, but I'm not going to slap RCS consoles on a ship that isn't made to turn well to begin with. I reinforce what it is already built for -- taking a hell of a lot of damage.
If I need to turn quickly in a pinch, I have abilities to do that. Otherwise I'm just going to lumber on and pound away as a battleship should.
Doesn't the double D have it's own two piece set that you get from the refit and retrofit? Last I checked that gives you a nice bonus to engines and turn.
D'D +2 to turn is not the same as what the scimi gets. 5 + bonus --> 7 turn base
Scim gets +2 AND gets to retain cloak turn rate bonus upon decloaking for as long as the ambush bonus is still up. It also keeps its shields up as it cloaks so it can pop in and out of the fight constantly to keep the turn rate up without a signifant penalty. 7 + bonus --> 9 turn base + decloak ambush
D'D +2 to turn is not the same as what the scimi gets. 5 + bonus --> 7 turn base
Scim gets +2 AND gets to retain cloak turn rate bonus upon decloaking for as long as the ambush bonus is still up. It also keeps its shields up as it cloaks so it can pop in and out of the fight constantly to keep the turn rate up without a signifant penalty. 7 + bonus --> 9 turn base + decloak ambush
The Scimitar is also a completely different class of ship. Designed for a completely different playstyle. The Tac Scimitar is designed for hit and fade, NOT for sustained combat. The double D on the other hand, it can stay in a fight forever and a day.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
The Scimitar is also a completely different class of ship. Designed for a completely different playstyle. The Tac Scimitar is designed for hit and fade, NOT for sustained combat. The double D on the other hand, it can stay in a fight forever and a day.
And block everyone's vision! :cool:
Not everyone can handle the Big Double-D's! Too much ship for most!
Not everyone can handle the Big Double-D's! Too much ship for most!
LOL! I hate 10 characters
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Allow me to chime in with my two cents' worth of hatred toward the D'Deridex battlecrusier: I absolutely hate it!!
The turn rate is awful; and the turn rate in battle is even worse. And, maybe it's just me whining, but it seemed as if when I was cloaked in battle and trying to turn towards the enemies they kept moving away from me, like they could see me even while I was cloaked! Funny, that.
Anyway, I discharged my D'Deridex the first chance I got and I'm now enjoying my Dreadnought Falchion Warbird. Funny how such a massive big ship can turn so nicely and still retain its versatility, huh?
Allow me to chime in with my two cents' worth of hatred toward the D'Deridex battlecrusier: I absolutely hate it!!
The turn rate is awful; and the turn rate in battle is even worse. And, maybe it's just me whining, but it seemed as if when I was cloaked in battle and trying to turn towards the enemies they kept moving away from me, like they could see me even while I was cloaked! Funny, that.
Anyway, I discharged my D'Deridex the first chance I got and I'm now enjoying my Dreadnought Falchion Warbird. Funny how such a massive big ship can turn so nicely and still retain its versatility, huh?
The problem isn't the ship. Some of the many things that could be done to boost the turn rate.
- Points into Starship Impulse Engines.
- For still levelling Romulan toons, Subsystem Power is an issue. Go for Combat Impulse Engines with turn rate boosts.
- RCS Accelerator Consoles - They're liberally rewarded in the Romulan campaign.
- Aux2Dampeners - Strong kinetic resist, big boost to speed and turn rate. The length of the buff is long enough that you can almost get away with 1 copy and have this ability running at a nearly constant state.
- As with other warbirds at endgame, they have a turn rate boost while cloaked.
Those are some things to help in the turn rate.
Other things are in how the ship is used.
- Cannons? You need to invest those points I mentioned above.
- Dual Beams up front? Similar problems as if you were using DHCs/DCs, but less of it since Dual Beams have a 90 degree arc compared to DHC/DC 45 degree arc. More forgiving, still concentrated firepower. Put some turrets in back to supplement.
- Traditional Beamboat - Practically negates the turn rate issue due to the very wide firing arcs.
- Use Recloak, Decloak liberally. Romulan Battle Cloaks (compared to regular Battle Cloaks) were designed as OP by the devs. You are liberally given BOFFs that give defense bonuses for cloaking, something the KDF never had. For the KDF, cloaking in battle is a death sentence. For the Romulans, it's sound tactics, because your defense IMPROVES. Take advantage of these. Again, at endgame Warbirds maneuver better under cloak. If you're not taking advantage of this in ANY Warbird you fly, you are a damn fool.
The Lv30 D'Deridex, no matter which you choose, is stacked in ENG stations. If you do not know how to make use of that in improving the performance of any ship, then you literally need to "Learn 2 Play."
I have now rolled 3 Romulan Subfaction characters: ENG, TAC, and SCI. They are at 50. In all 3 cases, I've taken the Lv30 Commander D'Deridex to level cap, and did my first ESTF runs in that old ship. I didn't jump into the Ha'feh upon reaching 40. I didn't keep my early level Mogai. I took the most symbolic Romulan Warbird to endgame, no problem. The D'Deridex has made a good impression to me, I bought the Fleet version for my Rom-Fed ENG.
And if you think the Scimitar pack is more versatile than the D'Deridex at T5, you are still a damn fool. No matter what version of the Scimitar pack you choose, by nature of its design it will force you down into TAC. You have a LtCdr Universal BOFF station. No matter what you do, either SCI or ENG will be weak. The D'Deridex at T5 is a different beast. It is versatile in nature due to the strong push into all 3 parts of TAC, ENG, and SCI abilities. Coming out of cloak, I can hit you with Emergency Power to Weapons 3, DEM3, Aux2Dampeners1, Viral Matrix 1, Tractor Beam 2, APO1, dual Beam Overloads, HYT1 with Quantum Torps, and if that doesn't work, hit Jam Sensors 1 + Evasive Maneuvers + Recloak and prepare to come at you again. And if I was using my SCI Captain, I'd throw a SNB to spice it up even more. The strong BOFF layout in all 3 disciplines allows for this.
The D'Deridex's BOFF layout at T5 gives this strong diversity at the cost of more "columns" of BOFF stations, but you still get the max of 12 BOFF skills as all ships do (except the KDF non-Fleet Norgh BOPs, which only get 11). Rest assured, the D'Deridex is good in TAC, ENG, and SCI.
THAT is versatility. Versatility is not presenting a 5 forward weapon ship in the right direction.
The problem isn't the D'Deridex. The problem are players like you that cannot comprehend gameplay outside of your single ideal on what a good ship is. The problem is you.
The problem isn't the ship. Some of the many things that could be done to boost the turn rate.
- Points into Starship Impulse Engines.
- For still levelling Romulan toons, Subsystem Power is an issue. Go for Combat Impulse Engines with turn rate boosts.
- RCS Accelerator Consoles - They're liberally rewarded in the Romulan campaign.
- Aux2Dampeners - Strong kinetic resist, big boost to speed and turn rate. The length of the buff is long enough that you can almost get away with 1 copy and have this ability running at a nearly constant state.
- As with other warbirds at endgame, they have a turn rate boost while cloaked.
Those are some things to help in the turn rate.
Other things are in how the ship is used.
- Cannons? You need to invest those points I mentioned above.
- Dual Beams up front? Similar problems as if you were using DHCs/DCs, but less of it since Dual Beams have a 90 degree arc compared to DHC/DC 45 degree arc. More forgiving, still concentrated firepower. Put some turrets in back to supplement.
- Traditional Beamboat - Practically negates the turn rate issue due to the very wide firing arcs.
- Use Recloak, Decloak liberally. Romulan Battle Cloaks (compared to regular Battle Cloaks) were designed as OP by the devs. You are liberally given BOFFs that give defense bonuses for cloaking, something the KDF never had. For the KDF, cloaking in battle is a death sentence. For the Romulans, it's sound tactics, because your defense IMPROVES. Take advantage of these. Again, at endgame Warbirds maneuver better under cloak. If you're not taking advantage of this in ANY Warbird you fly, you are a damn fool.
The Lv30 D'Deridex, no matter which you choose, is stacked in ENG stations. If you do not know how to make use of that in improving the performance of any ship, then you literally need to "Learn 2 Play."
I have now rolled 3 Romulan Subfaction characters: ENG, TAC, and SCI. They are at 50. In all 3 cases, I've taken the Lv30 Commander D'Deridex to level cap, and did my first ESTF runs in that old ship. I didn't jump into the Ha'feh upon reaching 40. I didn't keep my early level Mogai. I took the most symbolic Romulan Warbird to endgame, no problem. The D'Deridex has made a good impression to me, I bought the Fleet version for my Rom-Fed ENG.
And if you think the Scimitar pack is more versatile than the D'Deridex at T5, you are still a damn fool. No matter what version of the Scimitar pack you choose, by nature of its design it will force you down into TAC. You have a LtCdr Universal BOFF station. No matter what you do, either SCI or ENG will be weak. The D'Deridex at T5 is a different beast. It is versatile in nature due to the strong push into all 3 parts of TAC, ENG, and SCI abilities. Coming out of cloak, I can hit you with Emergency Power to Weapons 3, DEM3, Aux2Dampeners1, Viral Matrix 1, Tractor Beam 2, APO1, dual Beam Overloads, HYT1 with Quantum Torps, and if that doesn't work, hit Jam Sensors 1 + Evasive Maneuvers + Recloak and prepare to come at you again. And if I was using my SCI Captain, I'd throw a SNB to spice it up even more. The strong BOFF layout in all 3 disciplines allows for this.
The D'Deridex's BOFF layout at T5 gives this strong diversity at the cost of more "columns" of BOFF stations, but you still get the max of 12 BOFF skills as all ships do (except the KDF non-Fleet Norgh BOPs, which only get 11). Rest assured, the D'Deridex is good in TAC, ENG, and SCI.
THAT is versatility. Versatility is not presenting a 5 forward weapon ship in the right direction.
The problem isn't the D'Deridex. The problem are players like you that cannot comprehend gameplay outside of your single ideal on what a good ship is. The problem is you.
I see you are frustrated with the player community in this post. Its ok. Take a deep breath. I learned escorts first as well and had to adjust to cruiser/sci builds. It takes a little tinkering to get it right. The D'D needs a little experience with cruisers/battlecruisers to really shine. The best advice he needs is roll a Klink and learn how battlecruisers work. Its similiar enough to escort that from there cruiser builds will make more sense.
The Scimitar is also a completely different class of ship. Designed for a completely different playstyle. The Tac Scimitar is designed for hit and fade, NOT for sustained combat. The double D on the other hand, it can stay in a fight forever and a day.
I'm not sure if we're on the same page or not. I like the D'D but was merely pointing out keeping shields up with the ambush/turn bonus is really sweet. I could care less what the scimi is or isn't. However, its two set bonus is better than D'D two set bonus. The post I was responding to indicated the poster didn't understand the difference in set bonuses.
- Use Recloak, Decloak liberally. Romulan Battle Cloaks (compared to regular Battle Cloaks) were designed as OP by the devs. You are liberally given BOFFs that give defense bonuses for cloaking, something the KDF never had. For the KDF, cloaking in battle is a death sentence. For the Romulans, it's sound tactics, because your defense IMPROVES. Take advantage of these. Again, at endgame Warbirds maneuver better under cloak. If you're not taking advantage of this in ANY Warbird you fly, you are a damn fool.
I replaced most of my boffs with Humans for the leadership trait bonuses... does that make me a fool?
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I replaced most of my boffs with Humans for the leadership trait bonuses... does that make me a fool?
The Romulan subfaction boffs (Romulan, Reman) are easily one of the most OP things in this game. As a matter of fact, these BOFFs are half the reason the Romulans are OP. The good ones, which get liberally thrown in for free during the Romulan campaign become very, very good. The keys are their fabulous Traits.
Subterfuge: More stealth, more decloak damage, more cloak defense
Romulan Operative: +CritH, +CritD, shortened Cloak cooldowns. There is also the Superior Romulan Operative, which kicks major TRIBBLE.
Infiltrator: Found on Reman characters. +Defense, lengthens decloak bonus damage duration, +stealth for cloaks. Superior Infiltrator exists (lol, does it really need to get any better?). Reman player characters get regular Infiltrator.
Each and every one of these 3 Romulan subfaction traits are very powerful in themselves, most especially Operative & Infiltrator, and even more so if you stack the Superior versions.
Yes, I said stack. The bonuses from these 3 different traits, STACK for even more OP powah, to go alongside the OP Romulan ships. To make matters more interesting, you can find Rare / Very Rare BOFFs in all 3 disciplines (TAC, ENG, SCI) with a combination of 2 of these:
Romulan BOFFs can be found with Subterfuge + Superior Operative
Reman BOFFs can be found with Subterfuge + Superior Infiltrator
Again, these can be found in all 3 disciplines, and you can fit your Warbird up with RIDICULOUS boosts from traits.
My newest Romulan toon, a KDF-Reman SCI, at Lv32, had several BOFFs with Subterfuge + Superior Operative, Reman BOFFs with Subterfuge + Superior Infiltrator. I had ridiculous Crit rates and Crit severity that my Fed & KDF characters at Lv50 could never reach, even with endgame gear. My time to recloak was ridiculously short. Even better, with these massive offensive boosts, my decloak bonus damage timer was moved from 5 seconds to... 22 seconds.
At Lv32.
My Lv32 Reman could decloak out of her already powerful Romulan Battle Cloak (base bonus damage % is 25% compared to regular Battle Cloak from KDF which is only 15%, and that is before BOFF trait boosts), hit you with ridiculously stacked BOFF traits, and do this for almost half a minute... at Lv 32!
And I know there are Romulan players that do this way better with their level cap toons.
If you are not going out of your way in stacking Subterfuge / Superior Operative / Superior Infiltrator, you are missing out on the true power of the Romulan subfaction. The ships are OP, but the BOFFs are what sends Romulan ships into a whole other realm of Ridonkulous OP.
Comments
Or just skip the whole turning thing. I hear its over rated in PvP. :rolleyes:
Seriously, he's right. What it takes to make the D'D turn isn't worth it for PvP. Just go beamboat and forego the frustration. Because damage is also over rated.:D
Eh... I've gotten 6500DPS out of the beam-boat D'Dex without resorting to Aux2Batt, which is more than sufficient for any PvE mission.
In STF's, making circles in a slow turning ship while firing at a stationary target like a cube, while having the throttle at full, puts you out of range a good 1/3rd of the time. Otherwise you have to slow down or come to a complete stop which puts your defense rating to zero.
IF the maximum range weapons fired were extended from 10k to 20k it wouldn't be such a big deal, then cruisers wouldn't have to STOP just to fire at a target.
Why is the max range so short anyways, it's like 15 D'deridex lengths. That is stupidly ridiculously short. It's melee range.
You know what would be better than damage reduction at range? Accuracy reduction at range.
I'm used to a Recluse, so turn rates in the 5-6 range are typical for me. (Imagine how dizzy I get flying my escorts!
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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See this post:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12017171&postcount=14
Lets just say I promptly jumped back out again!! BO slot layout just seems all wrong & the turn speed... I wanted to jump into the vacuum of space & kick it to get things moving!!
I know I can fit an RCS but if I do that, it's gimping my setup.
They need to go back to this ship & have a serious look.. Enough said.
Beta player - forum knows jack as to when I started
_____________________________________________________
Somehow the Scimitar even though it is even bigger than the D'deridex is incredibly agile. As is the Tal Shiar adapted battlecruiser which is over 50% more massive than the D'deridex (and is by mass probably the biggest ingame playable ship) yet has nearly 50% more turnrate.
If you look at the D'deridex in the series its not really shown as a slow turner (neither is the Galaxy btw, but that's another topic) in fact, in several episodes you see it making 180 turns nearly instantly (ex. TNG episode Pegasus)
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
Constructive reply :rolleyes:
And reading your other replies, does make us wonder if you've ever flown the scimi so know what comparisons people are making regarding the slow turn rate, ect..
*claps hands... slowly*
And please take your half baked physics quotes elsewhere. This is a game, not real life :cool:
Beta player - forum knows jack as to when I started
_____________________________________________________
D'Deridex is similar to the Galaxy a very iconic ship I would buy just for that reason alone. Under the condition it works somehow. Boff seating is way better than on the poor Galaxy, so it is down to turnrate. (Even as a beam ship I found the captain level ship a bit lacking in that regard)
So, any people willing to share their experience ?
you know
like a battleship is soposed to have verses something that can land in its shuttle bay which outguns in in this game
STO says
If its smaller its more powerful !!!
I already know every escort arguement and there all Void and fail
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I have avoided those +TurnRate consoles for two main reasons.
1) The +HullRep modifier is far more useful to recoup lost hull due to the weaker dmg resist on all Romulan vessels.
2) A ship that only turns at a rate of 5 or 5.5 is not going to get much out of a 20% boost. That makes the ship turn like a Galaxy, and you don't get the aforementioned +HullRep bonus.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
BTW, give up trying to turn the D'D with consoles (its not worth it) and just reposition with cloak, kinda like how they do it in the shows
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Its doable on slow tgts your way. But since I primarily PvP with the D'D toon nowadays (maxed out rep) that wont work against all the escorts in PvP. So I just adopted a zombie cruiser type build and try to keep up pressure and draw attention while the BOPs and Dhelans do their thing. Now if I had the scimi two set bonus on the D'D I would follow your suggestion all the time.
Doesn't the double D have it's own two piece set that you get from the refit and retrofit? Last I checked that gives you a nice bonus to engines and turn.
Seriously, if you want a warbird that turns faster, you have plenty to choose from. The Fleet D'Deridex has the most HP of any warbird. It's a juggernaut. It can be indestructable if you want it to be, and you have plenty of tools of the trade if you need to go somewhere quickly.
I won't complain if it gets a turn rate boost, but I'm not going to slap RCS consoles on a ship that isn't made to turn well to begin with. I reinforce what it is already built for -- taking a hell of a lot of damage.
If I need to turn quickly in a pinch, I have abilities to do that. Otherwise I'm just going to lumber on and pound away as a battleship should.
D'D +2 to turn is not the same as what the scimi gets. 5 + bonus --> 7 turn base
Scim gets +2 AND gets to retain cloak turn rate bonus upon decloaking for as long as the ambush bonus is still up. It also keeps its shields up as it cloaks so it can pop in and out of the fight constantly to keep the turn rate up without a signifant penalty. 7 + bonus --> 9 turn base + decloak ambush
The Scimitar is also a completely different class of ship. Designed for a completely different playstyle. The Tac Scimitar is designed for hit and fade, NOT for sustained combat. The double D on the other hand, it can stay in a fight forever and a day.
And block everyone's vision! :cool:
Not everyone can handle the Big Double-D's! Too much ship for most!
LOL! I hate 10 characters
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The turn rate is awful; and the turn rate in battle is even worse. And, maybe it's just me whining, but it seemed as if when I was cloaked in battle and trying to turn towards the enemies they kept moving away from me, like they could see me even while I was cloaked! Funny, that.
Anyway, I discharged my D'Deridex the first chance I got and I'm now enjoying my Dreadnought Falchion Warbird. Funny how such a massive big ship can turn so nicely and still retain its versatility, huh?
The problem isn't the ship. Some of the many things that could be done to boost the turn rate.
- Points into Starship Impulse Engines.
- For still levelling Romulan toons, Subsystem Power is an issue. Go for Combat Impulse Engines with turn rate boosts.
- RCS Accelerator Consoles - They're liberally rewarded in the Romulan campaign.
- Aux2Dampeners - Strong kinetic resist, big boost to speed and turn rate. The length of the buff is long enough that you can almost get away with 1 copy and have this ability running at a nearly constant state.
- As with other warbirds at endgame, they have a turn rate boost while cloaked.
Those are some things to help in the turn rate.
Other things are in how the ship is used.
- Cannons? You need to invest those points I mentioned above.
- Dual Beams up front? Similar problems as if you were using DHCs/DCs, but less of it since Dual Beams have a 90 degree arc compared to DHC/DC 45 degree arc. More forgiving, still concentrated firepower. Put some turrets in back to supplement.
- Traditional Beamboat - Practically negates the turn rate issue due to the very wide firing arcs.
- Use Recloak, Decloak liberally. Romulan Battle Cloaks (compared to regular Battle Cloaks) were designed as OP by the devs. You are liberally given BOFFs that give defense bonuses for cloaking, something the KDF never had. For the KDF, cloaking in battle is a death sentence. For the Romulans, it's sound tactics, because your defense IMPROVES. Take advantage of these. Again, at endgame Warbirds maneuver better under cloak. If you're not taking advantage of this in ANY Warbird you fly, you are a damn fool.
The Lv30 D'Deridex, no matter which you choose, is stacked in ENG stations. If you do not know how to make use of that in improving the performance of any ship, then you literally need to "Learn 2 Play."
I have now rolled 3 Romulan Subfaction characters: ENG, TAC, and SCI. They are at 50. In all 3 cases, I've taken the Lv30 Commander D'Deridex to level cap, and did my first ESTF runs in that old ship. I didn't jump into the Ha'feh upon reaching 40. I didn't keep my early level Mogai. I took the most symbolic Romulan Warbird to endgame, no problem. The D'Deridex has made a good impression to me, I bought the Fleet version for my Rom-Fed ENG.
And if you think the Scimitar pack is more versatile than the D'Deridex at T5, you are still a damn fool. No matter what version of the Scimitar pack you choose, by nature of its design it will force you down into TAC. You have a LtCdr Universal BOFF station. No matter what you do, either SCI or ENG will be weak. The D'Deridex at T5 is a different beast. It is versatile in nature due to the strong push into all 3 parts of TAC, ENG, and SCI abilities. Coming out of cloak, I can hit you with Emergency Power to Weapons 3, DEM3, Aux2Dampeners1, Viral Matrix 1, Tractor Beam 2, APO1, dual Beam Overloads, HYT1 with Quantum Torps, and if that doesn't work, hit Jam Sensors 1 + Evasive Maneuvers + Recloak and prepare to come at you again. And if I was using my SCI Captain, I'd throw a SNB to spice it up even more. The strong BOFF layout in all 3 disciplines allows for this.
The D'Deridex's BOFF layout at T5 gives this strong diversity at the cost of more "columns" of BOFF stations, but you still get the max of 12 BOFF skills as all ships do (except the KDF non-Fleet Norgh BOPs, which only get 11). Rest assured, the D'Deridex is good in TAC, ENG, and SCI.
THAT is versatility. Versatility is not presenting a 5 forward weapon ship in the right direction.
The problem isn't the D'Deridex. The problem are players like you that cannot comprehend gameplay outside of your single ideal on what a good ship is. The problem is you.
I see you are frustrated with the player community in this post. Its ok. Take a deep breath. I learned escorts first as well and had to adjust to cruiser/sci builds. It takes a little tinkering to get it right. The D'D needs a little experience with cruisers/battlecruisers to really shine. The best advice he needs is roll a Klink and learn how battlecruisers work. Its similiar enough to escort that from there cruiser builds will make more sense.
I'm not sure if we're on the same page or not. I like the D'D but was merely pointing out keeping shields up with the ambush/turn bonus is really sweet. I could care less what the scimi is or isn't. However, its two set bonus is better than D'D two set bonus. The post I was responding to indicated the poster didn't understand the difference in set bonuses.
I replaced most of my boffs with Humans for the leadership trait bonuses... does that make me a fool?
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Actually yes it does, since leadership doesn't stack anymore.
The Romulan subfaction boffs (Romulan, Reman) are easily one of the most OP things in this game. As a matter of fact, these BOFFs are half the reason the Romulans are OP. The good ones, which get liberally thrown in for free during the Romulan campaign become very, very good. The keys are their fabulous Traits.
Subterfuge: More stealth, more decloak damage, more cloak defense
Romulan Operative: +CritH, +CritD, shortened Cloak cooldowns. There is also the Superior Romulan Operative, which kicks major TRIBBLE.
Infiltrator: Found on Reman characters. +Defense, lengthens decloak bonus damage duration, +stealth for cloaks. Superior Infiltrator exists (lol, does it really need to get any better?). Reman player characters get regular Infiltrator.
Each and every one of these 3 Romulan subfaction traits are very powerful in themselves, most especially Operative & Infiltrator, and even more so if you stack the Superior versions.
Yes, I said stack. The bonuses from these 3 different traits, STACK for even more OP powah, to go alongside the OP Romulan ships. To make matters more interesting, you can find Rare / Very Rare BOFFs in all 3 disciplines (TAC, ENG, SCI) with a combination of 2 of these:
Romulan BOFFs can be found with Subterfuge + Superior Operative
Reman BOFFs can be found with Subterfuge + Superior Infiltrator
Again, these can be found in all 3 disciplines, and you can fit your Warbird up with RIDICULOUS boosts from traits.
My newest Romulan toon, a KDF-Reman SCI, at Lv32, had several BOFFs with Subterfuge + Superior Operative, Reman BOFFs with Subterfuge + Superior Infiltrator. I had ridiculous Crit rates and Crit severity that my Fed & KDF characters at Lv50 could never reach, even with endgame gear. My time to recloak was ridiculously short. Even better, with these massive offensive boosts, my decloak bonus damage timer was moved from 5 seconds to... 22 seconds.
At Lv32.
My Lv32 Reman could decloak out of her already powerful Romulan Battle Cloak (base bonus damage % is 25% compared to regular Battle Cloak from KDF which is only 15%, and that is before BOFF trait boosts), hit you with ridiculously stacked BOFF traits, and do this for almost half a minute... at Lv 32!
And I know there are Romulan players that do this way better with their level cap toons.
If you are not going out of your way in stacking Subterfuge / Superior Operative / Superior Infiltrator, you are missing out on the true power of the Romulan subfaction. The ships are OP, but the BOFFs are what sends Romulan ships into a whole other realm of Ridonkulous OP.