As I stated 100s of threads before, additional Fleet Marks are coming.
Will Fleet Marks be added back to Foundry missions? Nope.
Will Fleet Marks be increased on other missions? Yes.
How soon?
As I hinted at last week, you will see changes over the next several month, but the first change will be this Thursday.
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
There ya go folks...exactly what you've been asking for... a reply.
So what do we rage about now?
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
There ya go folks...exactly what you've been asking for... a reply.
So what do we rage about now?
I'm not raging. In point of fact this is my last post in this, or any other thread. Best of luck to all, but I am neither a captive audience nor a metric, and the part I bolded was the very last straw.
There ya go folks...exactly what you've been asking for... a reply.
So what do we rage about now?
The lack of trust in the player base perhaps? Or what about the snottiness of that reply?
[snark] Say what you will about the man, but at least he gave us choice in this one! [/snark]
And we're right back to "trust me, but I won't tell you anything at all".
Did you not understand that that's exactly the sort of thing that's driving this latest round of player revolt DStahl?
He told you that Thursday will be the day some FM's will be added to the game...
The day and a half to continue too 'rage on', is also included Free-of-Charge.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
There ya go folks...exactly what you've been asking for... a reply.
So what do we rage about now?
How about small fleets being crippled by design?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Will Fleet Marks be added back to Foundry missions? Nope.
This leads me to ask why YOU put them in, in the first place, in such an exploitable fashion no less, but you at least confirm I have no need to ever touch the foundry again, thank you.
There ya go folks...exactly what you've been asking for... a reply.
So what do we rage about now?
Well I never thought you'd troll us as well but, I wasn't asking for a "reply" I wanted answers.
When are they going to fix the bugs?
When are they going to stop penalizing people for playing the way they "want"
When are they going to realize that metrics don't show anger.
He told you that Thursday will be the day some FM's will be added to the game...
Incorrect. He said "changes" will be made Thursday, while fleet marks will be increased "in the future".
You'll forgive me for being a wee bit nitpicky when someone who refuses to detail what he's doing, and with a proven track record of playing extremely fast and loose with the truth, splits hairs like that.
Want an actual conversation? Detail what exactly is going to change and when it's going to change.
Cryptic have made it clear they don't want any changes to the way fleet projects resources are allocated.
It's too easy to exploit, e.g. Mega large fleet X wants to get to tier 5 quickly, so they create a small fleet Y, filling the project resources quickly by rotating out the members between both fleets, until fleet Y reaches tier v, then all members from X jump to Y and fleet X is tossed or sold.
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
OK. fair enough, not detailed; could we get a hint? I mean, at this point it's set in stone, or you wouldn't even have time to get the code built and smoke-tested for Thursday. It has to have already been frozen. Maybe you're still tweaking numbers, but any code changes already happened.
Also, next time, please hold the removal for the replacement, when they're this close together.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
There ya go folks...exactly what you've been asking for... a reply.
So what do we rage about now?
Well that depends on the community and whether they're willing to let Dan get away with a throwaway comment like that.
The EP of Star Trek Online has responded to over 2000 posts asking for more information on how and when the Fleet Marks are going to be restored with a 'I'm not telling you - you'll just have to wait'.
How you react to this is your own individual choice.
Me? I'll continue to post in this and others threads when I have something to say or in response to others and I'll continue to be happy in the knowledge that not a single penny of my money is going towards paying this man's salary.
*Edit* Oh! And congratulations everyone!! This in now the 7th most commented news post since the game was in beta in 2010
He told you that Thursday will be the day some FM's will be added to the game...
The day and a half to 'rage on', is also included free of charge.
This is the reply we just received (as you may already know)
Originally Posted by dastahl
As I stated 100s of threads before, additional Fleet Marks are coming.
Will Fleet Marks be added back to Foundry missions? Nope.
Will Fleet Marks be increased on other missions? Yes.
How soon?
Margaret Thatcher (Former PM of the UK) pulled a rather similar stunt with the coal miners of South Wales iirc. Pulled out the rug from an iffy system without replacing.
Guess what? She is STILL reviled but pretty much the entire population of the UK.
As I hinted at last week, you will see changes over the next several month, but the first change will be this Thursday.
Did He? I don't recall that. Then again, I don't recall finding out about the lack of IOR until it actually hit. Before you ask, yes I do read and digest patch notes.
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
The pettiness you bring to this issue is neither helpful nor wanted.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
Ummm... I believe "the pettiness" was well established in this thread long before I came along.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Should have been done with the removal of the IOR, not later. had you done so, you'd not have a 2000 post thread on your forum.
Agreed, this wasn't well-planned or well-executed. I am actually not severely opposed to the removal of fleet marks from the Foundry. What I was very bothered by was the failure to shift those marks elsewhere simultaneously--to foresee the objections that were going to come up, and have a plan already in place to deal with them.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
We absolutely do listen to feedback. But there is another issue, some people like to exploit.
I take full responsibility and freely admit that we have been heavy handed with closing exploits and that in the future we will strive to be more considerate about how we close loopholes. Providing clear alternatives for players NOT exploiting while we close down the holes.
If you go back in time to when Foundry missions HAD NO REWARDS, these issues were not around. It is only when we started adding "tangible" rewards to the Foundry that the issues surrounding the Foundry became more in depth.
We want to reward Foundry missions. We want players to be recognized for making great missions (where great is determined by the player base - not us).
However, as soon as we started attaching real rewards to the Foundry, exploits started.
Whether it was the click a contact missions or the recent AFK farming of Foundry missions, having rewards on Foundry missions is problematic.
We take responsibility for putting the rewards there in the first place, but it is out of our desire to credit those who make missions in the Foundry that achieve status in the community.
So recently, we pulled Fleet Marks from the Foundry because there were too many people AFK completing missions, or in other words logging into the mission, letting the client sit there for 30 minutes and then collecting rewards, and Fleet Marks to boot.
Should we have upped the Fleet Marks on other missions before we pulled the FMs from the Foundry? Well I think the answer is obviously yes.
But to think that we are pulling Fleet Marks without an intention to add them back is false. We really do monitor Fleet Marks daily and we know how last week's changes impacted overall Fleet Mark earning. We will be compensating in this week's update to Holodeck.
Will it make everyone happy? no. But it will add Fleet Marks back into the economy.
We do plan to continue updating the Fleet Mark economies as the game progresses and as stated in posts several days ago, we will be reclassifying what are Events and what are Fleet Actions with a goal of making Fleet Marks the reward for "Group" gameplay.
Fleet Projects are only a small percentage Fleet Mark based so if you do not like to "group" then you'll have to contribute in other ways. We DO expect Fleet Holdings to require "group" gameplay for the most part. This is why we will continue to tune Fleet Holdings up through the May update.
As I stated 100s of threads before, additional Fleet Marks are coming.
Will Fleet Marks be added back to Foundry missions? Nope.
Will Fleet Marks be increased on other missions? Yes.
How soon?
As I hinted at last week, you will see changes over the next several month, but the first change will be this Thursday.
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
The thing is,no where did you mention anything about the coming patch. We were told within the next few months. One of the complaints was there was no transfer of those lost FMs prior to removing them from the foundry missions, which quite frankly should not have been difficult to achieve,nor anticipate the backlash from, the decisions made before the previous patch.
As I stated about 30 posts back, "Sorry, not good enough." This isn't just about fleet marks anymore, but an issue that runs deeper. Fleet events are not fun. Hunting for rabbits on new romulus isn't fun. Spending hours a day grinding out marks and dilithium to advance a starbase that won't see completion for years down the road is not fun.
To sum, you are correct. If it isn't fun,then why bother? Why indeed. I, personally, am done. I see clearly now the road ahead. To my fellow gamers, I wish you luck. To Mr. Stahl and crew, believe it or not I wish you luck as well. To the suits at PWE who haven't a clue what this game is to the fans and players, b!te me.
As I stated 100s of threads before, additional Fleet Marks are coming.
Such disconnect with the playerbase. This has gone far beyond Fleet Marks in the Foundry. Of course if your team really were reading this thread you would know that.
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
And we may or may not send a ferry to help you out. You'll have to wait and see. :rolleyes:
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Ummm... I believe "the pettiness" was well established in this thread long before I came along.
This just shows your sheer ignorance of the true heart of the matter. Some were petty. SOME. The vast majority here are sick and tired of the grind of this game, the lack of QA, and the forced playstyle. If you actually took the time to read AND understand, you will see this for yourself.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
Comments
The bold part is just... laughable. Do you guys never learn?
There ya go folks...exactly what you've been asking for... a reply.
So what do we rage about now?
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Fleet Marks Lock box anyone???
Of course, but it'll cost you 2000 lobi.
And we're right back to "trust me, but I won't tell you anything at all".
Did you not understand that that's exactly the sort of thing that's driving this latest round of player revolt DStahl?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't want a reply. I wanted an answer.
I'm not raging. In point of fact this is my last post in this, or any other thread. Best of luck to all, but I am neither a captive audience nor a metric, and the part I bolded was the very last straw.
The lack of trust in the player base perhaps? Or what about the snottiness of that reply?
[snark] Say what you will about the man, but at least he gave us choice in this one! [/snark]
He told you that Thursday will be the day some FM's will be added to the game...
The day and a half to continue too 'rage on', is also included Free-of-Charge.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
How about small fleets being crippled by design?
Thanks for your reply Dan, very insightful, and fully addresses our 200+ pages of concerns. I guess we were all in a fit about nothing.
Glad to hear that you are fixing all the 2-3 year old bugs that we were upset about, as well as the new ones added with last thursday's patch.
Thank you Dan. By simply posting the above response, you have made the game fun for all of us again! You're the man!
This leads me to ask why YOU put them in, in the first place, in such an exploitable fashion no less, but you at least confirm I have no need to ever touch the foundry again, thank you.
Should have been done with the removal of the IOR, not later. had you done so, you'd not have a 2000 post thread on your forum.
. See above, this to me, is a reactionary move since the frustration with you, your developers, your game and your company is hitting a fever pitch.
Yet another reason that this shows as reactionary. If it was coming, in, you'd have it announced. At least that is what you're showing me.
Reactionary management, can only get you so far
The pettiness you bring to this issue is neither helpful nor wanted.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
Well I never thought you'd troll us as well but, I wasn't asking for a "reply" I wanted answers.
When are they going to fix the bugs?
When are they going to stop penalizing people for playing the way they "want"
When are they going to realize that metrics don't show anger.
Just some of my questions that, aren't answered,
Incorrect. He said "changes" will be made Thursday, while fleet marks will be increased "in the future".
You'll forgive me for being a wee bit nitpicky when someone who refuses to detail what he's doing, and with a proven track record of playing extremely fast and loose with the truth, splits hairs like that.
Want an actual conversation? Detail what exactly is going to change and when it's going to change.
It's too easy to exploit, e.g. Mega large fleet X wants to get to tier 5 quickly, so they create a small fleet Y, filling the project resources quickly by rotating out the members between both fleets, until fleet Y reaches tier v, then all members from X jump to Y and fleet X is tossed or sold.
How about just for the great stories some of the foundry authors make? You shouldn't need a reward incentive just to play a foundry mission.
Thank you for this, and for telling us so.
OK. fair enough, not detailed; could we get a hint? I mean, at this point it's set in stone, or you wouldn't even have time to get the code built and smoke-tested for Thursday. It has to have already been frozen. Maybe you're still tweaking numbers, but any code changes already happened.
Also, next time, please hold the removal for the replacement, when they're this close together.
^That...I'll keep a close eye on the Tribble patchnotes, but honestly...if it was good news, why hide it till the last moment?
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well that depends on the community and whether they're willing to let Dan get away with a throwaway comment like that.
The EP of Star Trek Online has responded to over 2000 posts asking for more information on how and when the Fleet Marks are going to be restored with a 'I'm not telling you - you'll just have to wait'.
How you react to this is your own individual choice.
Me? I'll continue to post in this and others threads when I have something to say or in response to others and I'll continue to be happy in the knowledge that not a single penny of my money is going towards paying this man's salary.
*Edit* Oh! And congratulations everyone!! This in now the 7th most commented news post since the game was in beta in 2010
This is the reply we just received (as you may already know)
Margaret Thatcher (Former PM of the UK) pulled a rather similar stunt with the coal miners of South Wales iirc. Pulled out the rug from an iffy system without replacing.
Guess what? She is STILL reviled but pretty much the entire population of the UK.
Did He? I don't recall that. Then again, I don't recall finding out about the lack of IOR until it actually hit. Before you ask, yes I do read and digest patch notes.
^ THIS is a big problem. TRUST.
Ummm... I believe "the pettiness" was well established in this thread long before I came along.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Agreed, this wasn't well-planned or well-executed. I am actually not severely opposed to the removal of fleet marks from the Foundry. What I was very bothered by was the failure to shift those marks elsewhere simultaneously--to foresee the objections that were going to come up, and have a plan already in place to deal with them.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The thing is,no where did you mention anything about the coming patch. We were told within the next few months. One of the complaints was there was no transfer of those lost FMs prior to removing them from the foundry missions, which quite frankly should not have been difficult to achieve,nor anticipate the backlash from, the decisions made before the previous patch.
As I stated about 30 posts back, "Sorry, not good enough." This isn't just about fleet marks anymore, but an issue that runs deeper. Fleet events are not fun. Hunting for rabbits on new romulus isn't fun. Spending hours a day grinding out marks and dilithium to advance a starbase that won't see completion for years down the road is not fun.
To sum, you are correct. If it isn't fun,then why bother? Why indeed. I, personally, am done. I see clearly now the road ahead. To my fellow gamers, I wish you luck. To Mr. Stahl and crew, believe it or not I wish you luck as well. To the suits at PWE who haven't a clue what this game is to the fans and players, b!te me.
Such disconnect with the playerbase. This has gone far beyond Fleet Marks in the Foundry. Of course if your team really were reading this thread you would know that.
In escense you've torn down the old bridge before erecting the new one, stranding the motorists on either side
And we may or may not send a ferry to help you out. You'll have to wait and see. :rolleyes:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
This just shows your sheer ignorance of the true heart of the matter. Some were petty. SOME. The vast majority here are sick and tired of the grind of this game, the lack of QA, and the forced playstyle. If you actually took the time to read AND understand, you will see this for yourself.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
God, why didn't he repost that *here*...
Aside from the fact that it skips by all of the other concerns in this thread, it is at least a decent post and not a bunch of unsubstantiated points.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I just asked the same question there.