You know, if you take a look at almost any of Dan's interviews over the past few years just about all of them bring into mention how important the community and forums are/were in the decision making and development processes and how he learned from CO and CoH how 'important communication is' with feedback from players. Even just perusing this section alone of the last 3 years with posts about him or by him were a lot better received than those in recent memory. There is a definite shift in that credo. Coming in here and making a bunch of suspect bullet points and then trying to back them up with 'factoids' that seem to explain to anyone with the grasp of common sense there is a problem with the data and the decisions being made because of it is pretty ambiguous in of itself. So what happened?
Wow, Mr. Stahl.... you are totally out of touch with your customer base.
You are killing the "golden goose" that is the Star Trek fan base, but you want Harlem Shake videos in another thread while not dealing with a very serious customer satisfaction issue.
You discuss "metrics" in this thread with over 2000 posts in it now; if your goal is to get new accounts from marketing campaigns, you may have succeeded, but you are demoralizing your existing core customer base. I am considering ending my subscription with the "power trip nerfing" that you installed with S7 (then corrected) and now the Valentine's Day Massacre Patch.
You should not whipsaw MMO economies by these nerf tactics.
I love Star Trek. My father and I use to watch the original series together.
wow first time in awile that iam not actually logging in because I dont like being forced to a set direction by a game developer... wonder if anyone else is doing the same.. i wonder...
same here i started playing guild wars 2 .its nice not be grinding like crazy only to see u still need a few million more dilthium and marks, of course thats not inculding the rep system or embassy.
and the rewards are terrible a full day of grinding only to look at your currency and u only got a few hundred fleet marks.
this game has become too much of a chore and less fun to play
Agreed. Broke out my ps2 and gamecube that have not seen the light of day since 08. Started playing some Ace Combat five and tales of synphonia. As Stalin... I mean mr sthal said if you do not like it ignore it. Happily. I am just happy so many people decided to raise their voices on this.
I know we could probably make some videos airing our concerns about this. But do you think he would even watch them?
In Cryptic's defense, the construction of Earth Spacedock took about 50 years, so actually I think a year, two years for a whole starbase is not actually that bad. Besides, new stuff is coming in may, can't you just be patient and wait?
LOL wtf u want people to wait years before they can access some content. ill have what ever ur smoking
Well hes is trying to get people to forget about this thread so they will stop protest. If you dont keep on them they will never change sometime you have to shout to be heard. Speak loud so deaf people can hear you and tell them to stop the grind and bring back the fun its now or never time people.
ok I didn't want to bring up how really useless and full of it cryptic are but.....................during beta a mate of mine asked when will betazed be opend up as a social zone he got told and I quote "very soon" and that was over 3 years ago so........................
I do believe that the devs are capable of providing good content and fixing the bugs in the game.
But I don't think they are allowed to spend time doing it by the "overlords" in charge of the game.
If the "overlords" would just take a little time from their "vision" of "farming" the players (aka customers) for every single penny of money we have and address the real problems of the game, they would reap an amazimg amount of long term profit from a STABLE and ENJOYABLE game platform for years!
We, the players (aka customers) are here because we love Star Trek!
We don't love FARMING or bad/no content, or a game that feels like another JOB!
PWE/Cryptic Stop the FARM,Bring back the FUN!
Zeus
I Agree I Think need start addressing bugs more I really thinking of boycotting the new ships protest to them take no action all the bugs and lame changes to game they need to hear us when say NO! we don't like this. just saying this is maybe 4 time reused Borg STF you took them form star up in a patch content. when game started it was lvl 44 content then you made cap lvl 50 then you reused it for a queing system then reused it for rep system. whats next lvl 60 more endgame borg... put out a patch that something other then a ship or lvl cap raise btw no one wants the lvl cap raised you should do rank maybe thought a faction rep thing make it rewards. but that being said just one many examples i like this game i don't want too see it died ... but you killing it right now pace these release test your stuff slow don't zen ship add back emote pack or old promo thing we buy or something. I'm fine with a grind but when gets to be a all day thing you killed in daily there for poeple don't have time world to play but want keep pace on a goal.
So far there been 5 bugs i've encounter is how many know bugs that yet be fixed 0 i really wish the game devs would stop making ships and star fixing the bugs... i think there has be more ship released...
1. The 2min bug i've seen this tied in with the not being able to place Boffs back on to you ship after running the Enterprise mission and any other mission that wipes out the skill bar so annoying those missions are please fix that ... i feel like have reset bar all time... seems this bug has been here with season 6 that 1st time i saw it was in 7 after patch.
2 the fleet chat bug ... need i say more i would love type talk to my fleet in fleet season 6 still waiting ?!
3 STF some other ques too seen it ship will not turn after death and re spawn before season 6 per-patch 1st time i saw it.
4.Graphic bug with gas bodies in space map shatter glass effect only reason know not me is i have replace the graphics card in computer and others have encounter it also mission was the fed mission "Past Imperfect" ... btw why Spock in yellow shirt and out uniform in the mission.
5. Lag opening mail and foundry. I lag so bad opening mail can't even delete it or pick stuff up any plans removing the notices exchange that stuff sold i know stuff sold or a adding mass deletion button for mail that doesn't have items in the mail.
6. last bug I've notice not major but I'm sure if it a bug or not but why when search the Ah just in general no setting clicked on dose like only show that only 5 posting sell with over price items to middle level price items... than do narrow down search and shows 400 items ... why five showing general search not 400 starting with lowest priced.
don't get me wrong but isn't time these bugs got flushed out ... maybe over patching for another ship... just saying there other issue that not being adressed
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Instead of a response or action, we get a request to dance the Cryptic Shake.
Sorry, I've danced enough for you and paid you plenty of money while doing it.
Time for you do a backstep and undo this action.
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
I just learned that DStahl was requesting Harlem Shake videos on another thread. We I saw this, the image that came into my mind was Emperor Nero in a party while Rome burned. I guess they have other priorities than addressing this issue.
This thread just proves one important thing: People HATE the fleet mark que events. We might be fine with not going through foundry if there was far more options to farm fleet marks. We can only take so much farming the same thing over and over before we become, frankly, ****ing crazy.
So we did it with STFs. So what? STFs aren't fleet marks. So, I don't ask for those pathetic 50 FM back for foundry. I ask that you create MORE ways to get it, or increase the payouts for ques. I also ask that you lower the blasted cxp price tag for marks. 10k even for a 100 crit is seriously pushing it.
Why shouldn't every mission reward e.c., dilithium, and marks (and there should only be one type of mark)?
Then we'd be free to go do whatever missions we enjoy - i.e. to have fun and not have to grind.
^^^
This is the main reason I posted a Rewards Revamp proposal (see link below).
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Wow,the irony that just keeps flying over his head amazes me. I'm sorry Mr.Stahl, but please don't forget one thing, you are getting PAID to not have fun,THAT'S THE POINT.
I wonder if fleets alternatively submitted videos voicing thoughtful objections to the recent changes, suggestions to fix them, and suggestions to make the grind more fun and less repetitive; would those be played at the meeting?
I'm wondering if DStahl's request for videos is just an excuse to tell top executives that everybody in STO is happy. "See everybody is making fun videos". No problems on STO.... And BTW that thread that has more than 2K posting, just ingnore......
It is now Tuesday. I am still here. I am still pissed, and I am still not playing your game. Time is wearing on, as is my patience. Your call. What ya gonna do?
Well considering we are constantly being told by Dan and by the CDFers, that these forums only represent a small minority of players and the rest are blissfully enjoying the game (see the metrics", then why are we expecting a response???
Don't fall for this statement. You can hear the players complain about the changes to the foundary missions in the ESD zone, well we can, I don't know if Cryptic are listening to their players in-game.
Metrics won't show up players who are disappointed and hoping that things will change relatively soon - posters on these forums are being relied upon by the silent ones to help those changes happen.
Given the scale of discontent that's being expressed here, I do find it staggering that Dan's first post on this forum today was on what should be considered 'canon' in STO??
Well you know, he has to make all those people who had their super story line missions ignored for the mean and evil "exploit" missions. Just taking care of his "supporters"
It seems that the longer this thread goes, the more new posters we get. The same has happened on the now notorious "Harlem Shake" thread.
Keep fighting the good fight.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Dan Stahl is right in that asking for videos is fine (even though this is the first request I'd seen him do for such) -- but the timing is, to put it very diplomatically, insensitive. Don't get me wrong, I think Dan is a good EP but it's important to learn from missteps.
As others have pointed out, there's some irony in saying it should all be about fun and if it bothers you to ignore it. We want to have fun -- making our starbase goals that much harder to get by taking the FM out of IOR and having no added alternatives, either from boosting current FM rewards, reducing project costs, or new content is extremely frustrating to people. Instead of leaving the game because of this move, there have been scores of suggestions in this thread on viable solutions that can be enacted anywhere from this week to over the next few months -- all before May.
There's a major communication disconnect between the devs and the players since this change came out of the blue with no prior discussion, was posted to Tribble less than a day before it went live (ignoring some 75 pages of comments?), and has now amassed over 2000 comments since Thursday -- making it the most commented thread in this subforum in ages.
I honestly do not understand some of the logic that is going through the developer's heads:
1) Starbase progression is already time-gated. No one is going to finish faster than it's possible (~7 months was supposed to be this time, de facto not a single of the 16,500 fleets in the game will finish before 10-11 months).
2) You want us to get more Dilithium? Then increase or remove the refinement cap! This would reward people for playing once they get over 8000 in a day and help out smaller fleets who only have a few people to share the costs. And since it's a time currency, give at least a nominal amount for playing any content in the game -- it's annoying that the fleet mark events don't reward any dilithium.
3) You know Fleet Marks are bottlenecking fleets. Do something about it now -- as I said above, increase rewards, lower costs, or something else.
4) Fleet Marks for group activity? The Foundry IOR, Temporal Ambassador (solo only mission), and doffing do not fit the bill. But these were put in the game due to issue #3.
about the cap as a test i played all the dailies, the breen ones, and the ones in eta eridoni, and the explore 3 worlds in a cluster. and did each space STF on elite
after refining i got 1,000 raw ore that is before i even did any foundry. i mean it's so easy to bounce off the cap and i was not even playing that long
Did Stahl's account get TRIBBLE? He can't be *that* out of touch with the community right? He can't be serious with that request, right? RIGHT?!
Nothing is beyond the realm of possibility. The fact that the thread hasn't been closed yet is at least a small plus. After a certain point though, silence becomes its own answer and we are rapidly approaching that point. I know what my intentions are.
STILL no response?! I don't know why this surprises me, honestly, but I was hopeful that since the U.S. holiday has ended, SOMEONE would say something...of value. (Sorry, Bran, you do a lot for us, but in this instance your reply didn't really say anything, well, at all, but certainly nothing addressing the issues in this thread. Thanks for reading every post, if you are, but - no offense intended - it's directed a bit upward.)
At this point, my entire Fleet have decided to boycott further play and, moreover, you'll not be getting any more money out of any of us. I think one lad, who had just gotten his "Gold" will also be canceling it this month. Not a huge number, but that's 18 of us no longer buying Zen or any new "oooh shineys."
I'm sure there'll be others to take our places, and that you couldn't likely care less, since your "metrics bear out that players are happy," but, our lot are not.
Keep up the fight, mates! Cheers to you!
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge (...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
Comments
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=242729
You are killing the "golden goose" that is the Star Trek fan base, but you want Harlem Shake videos in another thread while not dealing with a very serious customer satisfaction issue.
You discuss "metrics" in this thread with over 2000 posts in it now; if your goal is to get new accounts from marketing campaigns, you may have succeeded, but you are demoralizing your existing core customer base. I am considering ending my subscription with the "power trip nerfing" that you installed with S7 (then corrected) and now the Valentine's Day Massacre Patch.
You should not whipsaw MMO economies by these nerf tactics.
I love Star Trek. My father and I use to watch the original series together.
STO, however, is not fun anymore.
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
same here i started playing guild wars 2 .its nice not be grinding like crazy only to see u still need a few million more dilthium and marks, of course thats not inculding the rep system or embassy.
and the rewards are terrible a full day of grinding only to look at your currency and u only got a few hundred fleet marks.
this game has become too much of a chore and less fun to play
I know we could probably make some videos airing our concerns about this. But do you think he would even watch them?
A service game is like a marriage" - Raph Koster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRCrMWvQsoM&feature=youtu.be
LOL wtf u want people to wait years before they can access some content. ill have what ever ur smoking
Well hes is trying to get people to forget about this thread so they will stop protest. If you dont keep on them they will never change sometime you have to shout to be heard. Speak loud so deaf people can hear you and tell them to stop the grind and bring back the fun its now or never time people.
I Agree I Think need start addressing bugs more I really thinking of boycotting the new ships protest to them take no action all the bugs and lame changes to game they need to hear us when say NO! we don't like this. just saying this is maybe 4 time reused Borg STF you took them form star up in a patch content. when game started it was lvl 44 content then you made cap lvl 50 then you reused it for a queing system then reused it for rep system. whats next lvl 60 more endgame borg... put out a patch that something other then a ship or lvl cap raise btw no one wants the lvl cap raised you should do rank maybe thought a faction rep thing make it rewards. but that being said just one many examples i like this game i don't want too see it died ... but you killing it right now pace these release test your stuff slow don't zen ship add back emote pack or old promo thing we buy or something. I'm fine with a grind but when gets to be a all day thing you killed in daily there for poeple don't have time world to play but want keep pace on a goal.
Think this need you attention too devs http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=551491
So far there been 5 bugs i've encounter is how many know bugs that yet be fixed 0 i really wish the game devs would stop making ships and star fixing the bugs... i think there has be more ship released...
1. The 2min bug i've seen this tied in with the not being able to place Boffs back on to you ship after running the Enterprise mission and any other mission that wipes out the skill bar so annoying those missions are please fix that ... i feel like have reset bar all time... seems this bug has been here with season 6 that 1st time i saw it was in 7 after patch.
2 the fleet chat bug ... need i say more i would love type talk to my fleet in fleet season 6 still waiting ?!
3 STF some other ques too seen it ship will not turn after death and re spawn before season 6 per-patch 1st time i saw it.
4.Graphic bug with gas bodies in space map shatter glass effect only reason know not me is i have replace the graphics card in computer and others have encounter it also mission was the fed mission "Past Imperfect" ... btw why Spock in yellow shirt and out uniform in the mission.
5. Lag opening mail and foundry. I lag so bad opening mail can't even delete it or pick stuff up any plans removing the notices exchange that stuff sold i know stuff sold or a adding mass deletion button for mail that doesn't have items in the mail.
6. last bug I've notice not major but I'm sure if it a bug or not but why when search the Ah just in general no setting clicked on dose like only show that only 5 posting sell with over price items to middle level price items... than do narrow down search and shows 400 items ... why five showing general search not 400 starting with lowest priced.
don't get me wrong but isn't time these bugs got flushed out ... maybe over patching for another ship... just saying there other issue that not being adressed
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Sorry, I've danced enough for you and paid you plenty of money while doing it.
Time for you do a backstep and undo this action.
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Two very important things here. First our point of view, the game isn't fun. Second his point of view. "If [it] bothers you then just ignore it."
Just thought I'd point out the second part people skipped.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
So we did it with STFs. So what? STFs aren't fleet marks. So, I don't ask for those pathetic 50 FM back for foundry. I ask that you create MORE ways to get it, or increase the payouts for ques. I also ask that you lower the blasted cxp price tag for marks. 10k even for a 100 crit is seriously pushing it.
^^^
This is the main reason I posted a Rewards Revamp proposal (see link below).
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
Stahl is looking for Harlem Shake videos.
Just start it out normal then when the crazy part happens cut to characters protesting, then insert message screens of what you want to say.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It is now Tuesday. I am still here. I am still pissed, and I am still not playing your game. Time is wearing on, as is my patience. Your call. What ya gonna do?
Don't fall for this statement. You can hear the players complain about the changes to the foundary missions in the ESD zone, well we can, I don't know if Cryptic are listening to their players in-game.
Metrics won't show up players who are disappointed and hoping that things will change relatively soon - posters on these forums are being relied upon by the silent ones to help those changes happen.
Well you know, he has to make all those people who had their super story line missions ignored for the mean and evil "exploit" missions. Just taking care of his "supporters"
/sarcasm:mad:
Keep fighting the good fight.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
As others have pointed out, there's some irony in saying it should all be about fun and if it bothers you to ignore it. We want to have fun -- making our starbase goals that much harder to get by taking the FM out of IOR and having no added alternatives, either from boosting current FM rewards, reducing project costs, or new content is extremely frustrating to people. Instead of leaving the game because of this move, there have been scores of suggestions in this thread on viable solutions that can be enacted anywhere from this week to over the next few months -- all before May.
There's a major communication disconnect between the devs and the players since this change came out of the blue with no prior discussion, was posted to Tribble less than a day before it went live (ignoring some 75 pages of comments?), and has now amassed over 2000 comments since Thursday -- making it the most commented thread in this subforum in ages.
I honestly do not understand some of the logic that is going through the developer's heads:
1) Starbase progression is already time-gated. No one is going to finish faster than it's possible (~7 months was supposed to be this time, de facto not a single of the 16,500 fleets in the game will finish before 10-11 months).
2) You want us to get more Dilithium? Then increase or remove the refinement cap! This would reward people for playing once they get over 8000 in a day and help out smaller fleets who only have a few people to share the costs. And since it's a time currency, give at least a nominal amount for playing any content in the game -- it's annoying that the fleet mark events don't reward any dilithium.
3) You know Fleet Marks are bottlenecking fleets. Do something about it now -- as I said above, increase rewards, lower costs, or something else.
4) Fleet Marks for group activity? The Foundry IOR, Temporal Ambassador (solo only mission), and doffing do not fit the bill. But these were put in the game due to issue #3.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
after refining i got 1,000 raw ore that is before i even did any foundry. i mean it's so easy to bounce off the cap and i was not even playing that long
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Provided by the man himself!
Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
Nothing is beyond the realm of possibility. The fact that the thread hasn't been closed yet is at least a small plus. After a certain point though, silence becomes its own answer and we are rapidly approaching that point. I know what my intentions are.
At this point, my entire Fleet have decided to boycott further play and, moreover, you'll not be getting any more money out of any of us. I think one lad, who had just gotten his "Gold" will also be canceling it this month. Not a huge number, but that's 18 of us no longer buying Zen or any new "oooh shineys."
I'm sure there'll be others to take our places, and that you couldn't likely care less, since your "metrics bear out that players are happy," but, our lot are not.
Keep up the fight, mates! Cheers to you!
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)