given how they've whined about the "exploits" so much as of late? I'm almost willing to risk watching them rage and froth at the mouth. It really couldn't be much worse, besides, in my humble opinion, they'd get what they deserve.
One "author" was whining recently that his tips have gone down drastically. They're not in it for a story at all, they're in it for money, plain and simple greed is all it is. Nothing more, nothing less. And that my dear captain, is why I don't want to have it give rewards. If they were really in it for the story then the loss of tips wouldn't matter, but it does.
That was the one thing I was only semi serious about in that post
While it would be "just deserts" for some of them, have we really become so petty?
Perhaps he's getting tired of repeating himself or being insulted when he does try to give a more fully crafted response.
I see nothing arrogant or wrong with his post. It's concise and to the point.
Look up his posts in the dev tracker and you'll find some more fleshed out statements.
If he makes a fully crafted response as you call it, why not point out to that *here*, or repost it *here*. Aside from that, it only deals with one of the plethora of issues raised here. Hopefully he's preparing a complete post together with Branflakes at the moment, who could advise him on how to *not* inadvertedly enrage us, again...
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
the PVP community control the game and what about us people who do not like pvp i myself don't like pvp, dont care fore it, to many rules you have to follow to pvp.
here is what the pvp community would like to see from you
1. use only 1 weapon.
2. console slots must be empty.
3. no shields should be installed on your ship.
4. no targeting thwe other player let them blast you to little pieces.
5. oh yeah and make sure you thank the QQ'ing pvp'ers for being thier punching bag.
the above rules of engagement are a completely made up but i'm sure if the pvp community could some how figure out how to get STO to make us follow a set of rules like that, they would.
stop crying pvp'ers play the game it is only a game for goodness sake
Blame shift. Blaming US even though they created the very thing that created the "exploit"
This is a total non-argument. Every game has loopholes and flaws that only come to light because of players who try to game the system to gain excessive rewards with little to no effort -- which they know is not the intent of the designers or healthy for the game.
This is not "working smarter", it is purposely attempting to find bugs to exploit. No one does this innocently, although some may find a given exploit by accident. Honest players report said exploit so the devs are aware of it and can address it.
When a "more fully crafted response" includes details, solutions and a distinct lack of the implication that Cryptic doesn't give a damn about small/medium/KDF fleets, I think it's safe to say that people will be willing to enter into a dialogue.
A five paragraph post on how we're not being told anything and we need to trust Cryptic to fix all the ills of this game, while simultaneously telling anyone who isn't in a multi-hundred member fleet to give up on building their starbase on the other hand...
It's not that they 'don't give a damn' about small fleets; they HAVE openly stated from DAY ONE of the Fleet system that they designed progression around an active 25 player fleet; and did so that if you decided to make and maintain a smaller Fleet, you had an idea of what you're in for.
^^^
They're never stated anything differently with regard to Fleets and Fleet progression, so how much more upfront or honest can they be regarding this particular design decision?
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Mr. Stahl, I'm sorry to hear your daughter is sick. I mean that. I hope your job allows telecommuting so you can be there now as well as last night.
.
If this is the case, then I sympathise.
However, it is equally clear that Mr Stahl is in no way fit at the moment to deal with this issue.
Mr Stahl should go home, do all he can for his family and delegate responsibility for fixing the horrendous valentines day massacre patch to someone with the clout to actually make changes
Waiting until thursday for an unspecified fix to unspecified issues is unacceptable.
Not apologising in the slightest for the terrible way this has been handled is also unacceptable.
As I stated 100s of threads before, additional Fleet Marks are coming.
Will Fleet Marks be added back to Foundry missions? Nope.
Will Fleet Marks be increased on other missions? Yes.
How soon?
As I hinted at last week, you will see changes over the next several month, but the first change will be this Thursday.
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
This is your answer?
Do you think that your customers want to hear that we may have to wait SEVERAL months?
A HINT? Come on mate, most of your player base are adults, which in itself makes this very different from many other MMOs! We're not children. Don't give us hints, give us answers.
And how about all the other ISSUES that have been raised here, will you drop us any HINTS about when we can reasonably expect some CHANGE around here.
We are not metrics that you can read and "interpret" in such a way as to fit your business model.
We are actually most genuinely unhappy, this thread and its responses aren't coming from data-mining software, it's coming from living breathing PAYING customers.
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
Really I don't have the words, or to be honest the will to give any kind of response to this.
But I'll ask this for the heck of it... Will this CHANGE be THOROUGHLY DEBUGGED and PLAYTESTED on the Tribble TEST SERVER, before releasing it for our use? Which I hope will mean Tribble patch notes, so that we can decide whether or not to patch and play?
(Just a little point, that refers to the whole time gating issue, Ok so it takes 20 yrs or more to build a starbase, but then again it also takes 25+ yrs to make Vice Admiral... [ensign to VA50 ~ 3-4 weeks in game])
It's not that they 'don't give a damn' about small fleets; they HAVE openly stated from DAY ONE of the Fleet system that they designed progression around an active 25 player fleet; and did so that if you decided to make and maintain a smaller Fleet, you had an idea of what you're in for.
25 people. But people are not all equal as I'm sure you know already. Not all of us are the "UBERMEGAomfgWTF no life grinder" that their metric would seem to call for.
They're never stated anything differently with regard to Fleets and Fleet progression, so how much more upfront or honest can they be regarding this particular design decision?
Well, hows about stating how the assess their metrics? How's about detailing how much play they expect those 25 "average joes" in their generic fleet to play in order to make a t5 base?
They could also cut out most of the "truuuuust meeee" stuff and tell us what is happening?
Rinkster--He stated in the closure post for the Harlem Shake thread that he was up in the middle of the night last night trying to calm his daughter, who was sick.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
And this is partly why this game is in the current state. I have said this many times;
Far too many people too willing to accept and even pay for mediocrity and failing to hold developers accountible.
Mediocrity is in the eye-of-the-beholder... Not everybody playing this game finds it to be as lacking as you apparently do.
I've hit a few of the bugs in the game and have often been frustrated by them, but I've also seen how many of the past bugs are slowly being dealt with.
The game is not perfect and neither are the folks running it, but since it's apparent to me at this time that They are doing what they can to improve it overall (while still trying to make a living from it AND please their bosses), I'm willing to make the best of the situation.
The game has come a looong way since it first opened, the road has been fraught with potholes and half built bridges, but in my opinion, it's still fun to play.
When it stops being fun for me, I'll find something else to do and look back with found memories.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
It's not that they 'don't give a damn' about small fleets; they HAVE openly stated from DAY ONE of the Fleet system that they designed progression around an active 25 player fleet; and did so that if you decided to make and maintain a smaller Fleet, you had an idea of what you're in for.
Considering we went from "25 folks playing a few hours a week will be gated only by the completion time of the starbase" to "25 folks playing multiple hours a day will be required to finish a starbase within a year", I think it's safe to say that expectations have radically changed.
People in smaller fleets were assured that that would be able to make reasonable and steady progress through the system with a reasonable amount of time invested. Not at the rate that large fleets are able to, but steady progress nonetheless. That's absolutely not the case, and you know it.
The tips really aren't that much. They're nice, but the main reason I wrote and posted my mission was because I had a story to share and I wanted people to have the chance to play it and hopefully have fun.
So then tell me, if they removed the tips, from the game entirely, would you continue to make them? Would you really continue to do so? If they don't matter that much would you join a random fleet each week and drop the DIL into a project for them? (while extreme, it shows just how much they matter)
DaveyNY, it would seem to me that you haven't played any really good games then. STO as it stands is at best mediocre. The thing that drew me in regardless of the mediocre reviews?
Star Trek.
Rinkster--He stated in the closure post for the Harlem Shake thread that he was up in the middle of the night last night trying to calm his daughter, who was sick.
That comment was made in relation to a personal request made by him, and he already explained his motivation for doing so there. It has nothing to do with this, so let's leave that out of this discussion. If that was the reason behind the lack of response in this thread, all he had to do was tell us so. I'm not *that* bitchy that I wouldn't be able to sympathise, and I trust the same applies to everyone here. However, that has neither been stated nor implied, so I suggest we leave that out of this discussion, since it is not relevant.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
This is a total non-argument. Every game has loopholes and flaws that only come to light because of players who try to game the system to gain excessive rewards with little to no effort -- which they know is not the intent of the designers or healthy for the game.
This is not "working smarter", it is purposely attempting to find bugs to exploit. No one does this innocently, although some may find a given exploit by accident. Honest players report said exploit so the devs are aware of it and can address it.
Believe me, when I see a loophole or flaw I'll call it a loophole or flaw. What they have here is BUGGY CODE! Most of this post has nothing to do with The Foundry or Fleet Marks. Those are just the latest in a string of bad decisions and changes made by Cryptic.
The release of Season 7 was a bad decision. It was released, and still is, broken. They should have QC'd for another month, and actually listened to their player base that told them beforehand how that content would be received. Same as this last patch. 75+ pages telling them about bugs, and how their players would view their changes, all in ONE DAY. and they went live with the patch anyways.
This is not smart decision making, which is mostly Epic Fail...
Now go grind your 3 hours so you can make enough Omega Marks, Romulan Marks, Fleet Marks and Lobi's so you can line up to do it again tomorrow.
That comment was made in relation to a personal request made by him, and he already explained his motivation for doing so there. It has nothing to do with this, so let's leave that out of this discussion. If that was the reason behind the lack of response in this thread, all he had to do was tell us so. I'm not *that* bitchy that I wouldn't be able to sympathise, and I trust the same applies to everyone here. However, that has neither been stated nor implied, so I suggest we leave that out of this discussion, since it is not relevant.
Fair enough, I couldn't see the original post as the thread had been closed, I was just replying to the comment made in this thread.
While I understand were you are coming from. There is faulty logic here However in the case of this posting, I will attempt to be constructive in my following remarks to provide "feedback" as I feel these are the important ones to be addressed..
The first of which being is the assumption there are more exploiters out weighing the non exploiters. Imo I think there are more important exploit fixes that should come such as I don't know. Season 4's supposedly revamped ground pvp... to this day and for months there is nothing but, exploits.
Secondly: Removing something with nothing to replace it is a very very bad move and will only further highlight the lack of game progression. Simply putting something in the future is simply just not good enough and will only further bring player discontent.
Thirdly: We hear a lot of the term "balance". So were more interested in Balancing the Fleet bases... which aren't imo and are completely bias towards smaller fleets. But, yet although the focus is on balancing the bases, but not balancing the game play such as P2W consoles, beams = rubbish... y'know there are too many to list, see the feedback.
That just totally baffles me that we are more interested in base balance than anything else.
In conclusion I feel the bases are restricted like this to only further force players to continue to play the same content over and over to keep the game numbers up. Let's face it's all about the marketing strategy to keep players interested. Repeating stuff over and over again will not keep any player interested... it will just bore them to death. I mean I just pvp these days (which is the only decent end game stuff to do and that's broken, due to balance) or help with the dith grind or FM grind. I'm slowly thinking a short break "not raging" would be good now, but alas I do love the community in my fleets and that's what keeps me here. I believe that Dstal is just stuck simply with the pressures of PWE and that's what is really the route cause of these issues. I wouldn't entirely blame him for this move.
DaveyNY, it would seem to me that you haven't played any really good games then. STO as it stands is at best mediocre. The thing that drew me in regardless of the mediocre reviews?
Star Trek.
I've played three MMO's... SWG, WoW and STO...
SWG was really great, till they drastically changed it.
WoW was fun for a while, but my interest in D&D type stuff is waning as I get older.
STO is still fun for me as a Trekker, nothing this game does will change my feelings I have toward the IP...
While it's available I'm going to play it and enjoy it to the best of my ability...
There's nothing like it available anywhere else.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Kyuui--Yes, I would continue on and create Part 2 of my Foundry mission to the best of my ability, with or without tips. I have written stories for years and until I did the Foundry, never got anything "material" back, but wrote simply for the fun and for the community...chatting back and forth about various people's stories. Which is the same reason I write for the Literary Challenges here. You don't get anything for that except for the fun. The community is the biggest payoff for me.
As for resources given to my fleet? Three toons contribute basically everything they have to my fleet, thank you very much. Only one toon farms for me, and he doesn't bring in that much.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Kyuui--Yes, I would continue on and create Part 2 of my Foundry mission to the best of my ability, with or without tips. I have written stories for years and until I did the Foundry, never got anything "material" back, but wrote simply for the fun and for the community...chatting back and forth about various people's stories. Which is the same reason I write for the Literary Challenges here: you don't get anything for that except for the fun.
Well I would say you're the rare animal, and when your ready to drop some of the worthless tips into a fleet, let me know, I know of a few who would take them willingly, and maybe even give you something in exchange.
That's probably why this game is so meh, no other choices and the devs know people will fork over money because it is Star Trek
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
As I stated 100s of threads before, additional Fleet Marks are coming.
Will Fleet Marks be added back to Foundry missions? Nope.
Will Fleet Marks be increased on other missions? Yes.
How soon?
As I hinted at last week, you will see changes over the next several month, but the first change will be this Thursday.
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
This is your response? After 2000 posts objecting to the lack of transparency, lack of discussion, and excessive grind of the game in general, and making many detailed proposals to improve the situation, your response is, "We're moving up the timetable on these new ways to grind we won't tell you about, but I'm going to pretend this was the plan all along. The first change is coming in 48 hours, but I'm not telling you about that either. Trust me."
Why should we trust you, Mr. Stahl? You and your team have a long history of doing as much to hurt Star Trek Online and TRIBBLE over its playerbase as you do to improve the game and help us. Worse, even changes that you have claimed would help us have often proven detrimental instead. So we must consider your judgement and/or motives and/or honesty to be suspect. Therefore, our role as forum posters is not to trust you, but rather to serve as watchdogs, examining every move you make and screaming bloody murder when you do something harmful. Many of us would love to contribute more to the process of designing the game, and you've gotten plenty of free business advice in this thread, but the only role you allow us is that of watchdogs, so that is the role we must fill.
Your most recent post is just more of the same things we've been objecting to all along. This isn't an answer, and it isn't a fix. Don't expect this to satisfy us, and don't expect this to keep us here. If anything, you've driven me that much closer to leaving. And I don't want to leave.
Honestly, the main reasons I still play STO are because I have friends here and because being a top member of my fleet lets me feel like there's some kind of a point to my life (and yeah, I'm probably depressed, deal with it). The more you force us to grind and the more you disrespect us the less I feel like this is worth it. You're pushing me right to the edge of leaving the game entirely. I haven't actually played in days, just logged on to see fleet chat so I can help out anyone with questions, and I didn't even do that yesterday. If this keeps up, I may very well quit STO and go back to some of my many other games.
Everyone is jumping to wrong ideas what they want to hear from his reply but this is the same BS as before. So i will wait and see till patch day. I will be ready to protest then if some stuff dont get fixed or more fleet marks are not add because i am no man slave working for small amount of crappy fleet marks.
Kyuui--Yes, I would continue on and create Part 2 of my Foundry mission to the best of my ability, with or without tips. I have written stories for years and until I did the Foundry, never got anything "material" back, but wrote simply for the fun and for the community...chatting back and forth about various people's stories. Which is the same reason I write for the Literary Challenges here. You don't get anything for that except for the fun. The community is the biggest payoff for me.
As for resources given to my fleet? Three toons contribute basically everything they have to my fleet, thank you very much. Only one toon farms for me, and he doesn't bring in that much.
I truley believe most foundry authors do it because they want to tell a good story within the confines of the game, and I'm sure I can speak for most people when I say we appreciate it.
It's only a few authors who insist we play their (and only their) "Wuthering Heights in Space" that people take issue with.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
25 people. But people are not all equal as I'm sure you know already. Not all of us are the "UBERMEGAomfgWTF no life grinder" that their metric would seem to call for.
Well, hows about stating how the assess their metrics? How's about detailing how much play they expect those 25 "average joes" in their generic fleet to play in order to make a t5 base?
They could also cut out most of the "truuuuust meeee" stuff and tell us what is happening?
At this point, why should they bother as for a lot of posters, it's gotten to the point that unless they say:
"You people against this change were 100% correct -- we're performing an emergency patch to rollback all recent reward changes right now..."
then you don't want to hear it. Dan came back after a holiday weekend, posted in this thread that they will be upping the FM rewards in other content starting with this next patch; (and other the weekend the majority of this thread seemed to be:
"Can someone from Cryptic please respond to this thread and tell us what you plan to do?"
So they do that and it's still - "Not enough - I want an answer and fix to all my issues now!"
So IDK, but with a situation such as the above where if they don't say anything they're attacked; and if they do say anything, they're still attacked -- if I were them, I'd go with the attitude of:
"Why bother, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't."
Because in the end, the honest fact is, most of the people who play STO (or any MMO) rarely (if ever) bother with reading or posting to the official forums; and the majority of players who like the game, just play it. That's why one of the major forms of feedback they use is metrics, because in the end, that determines potential for income generation, etc.
The ONLY ti,me they get worried if if they see a MASSIVE downturn in concurrent player numbers, or see the game isn't retaining new players who download it (IE they quit after a few levels or in the tutorial and never log in again.)
And if you want a real world STO example where the STO Forum feedback and real world STO metrics conflict; and clearly show the feedback from the minority on the Forums DOESN'T coincide with their real world player metrics feedback, I give you:
The Lockbox situation (and BTW, I'm not at all for having Lockboxes and I make my view know in game by NOT buying or using Lockboxes or Master Keys in any way -- that said:)
If you go by STO Forum feedback, Lockboxes are a negative item, bringing down the enjoyment of STO for a lot of players (by the comments posted)
YET -- their metrics show (and the Devs have backed this up by comments in interviews):
The sales of Master Keys to open Lockboxes is the most lucrative/successful method that STO has to generate revenue and profit to date. Like it or not, that's the situation; and I'm sure if that wasn't the case; we'd see Lockboxes and Master Keys completely disappear from STO in a heartbeat.
So, here's a bonifide case where if Cryptic simply used Forum feedback and the main/only source; they'd loose their major source of income generation, see less profit; and we as players would see slower STO game development, STO would have a smaller dev team, etc.
^^^
That's a trap you can fall into if you don't look at multiple sources of feedback to help paint a clearer picture of a large complex situation.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Believe me, when I see a loophole or flaw I'll call it a loophole or flaw. What they have here is BUGGY CODE! Most of this post has nothing to do with The Foundry or Fleet Marks. Those are just the latest in a string of bad decisions and changes made by Cryptic.
The release of Season 7 was a bad decision. It was released, and still is, broken. They should have QC'd for another month, and actually listened to their player base that told them beforehand how that content would be received. Same as this last patch. 75+ pages telling them about bugs, and how their players would view their changes, all in ONE DAY. and they went live with the patch anyways.
This is not smart decision making, which is mostly Epic Fail...
Now go grind your 3 hours so you can make enough Omega Marks, Romulan Marks, Fleet Marks and Lobi's so you can line up to do it again tomorrow.
And BTW, that 3 hour estimate was conservative...
I refuse to grind like that.
If you go back over my post history for the last few months, you'll find that I'm one of those players calling for less grind and more story/episodic content. My little 5-player fleet probably won't get past Tier 2 with our starbase, because we'd rather play "real" content than grind.
I have one character who is almost through the Romulan rep grind -- because I want to play the missions gated behind said grind. It is the last time I will do so. New Romulus is fun on occasion, but it is no more fun as a "daily" than any other content. I may revisit it on other characters later, but just as additional "story-light" missions in their careers, not with any intention of running through the whole rep grind.
Conversely, I have never been tempted to cheat my way through the grind by participating in obvious exploits. No game is all that important to me. Either I have fun with what I do or I find something better to do.
STO is fun; it's just limited the amount of mission content available -- especially when compared to other MMOs.
At this point, why should they bother as for a lot of posters, it's gotten to the point that unless they say:
"You people against this change were 100% correct -- we're performing an emergency patch to rollback all recent reward changes right now..."
Again, it's not just about the rewards. That point seem to be lost on the CDF and Cryptic.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Comments
That was the one thing I was only semi serious about in that post
While it would be "just deserts" for some of them, have we really become so petty?
If he makes a fully crafted response as you call it, why not point out to that *here*, or repost it *here*. Aside from that, it only deals with one of the plethora of issues raised here. Hopefully he's preparing a complete post together with Branflakes at the moment, who could advise him on how to *not* inadvertedly enrage us, again...
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
here is what the pvp community would like to see from you
1. use only 1 weapon.
2. console slots must be empty.
3. no shields should be installed on your ship.
4. no targeting thwe other player let them blast you to little pieces.
5. oh yeah and make sure you thank the QQ'ing pvp'ers for being thier punching bag.
the above rules of engagement are a completely made up but i'm sure if the pvp community could some how figure out how to get STO to make us follow a set of rules like that, they would.
stop crying pvp'ers play the game it is only a game for goodness sake
This is a total non-argument. Every game has loopholes and flaws that only come to light because of players who try to game the system to gain excessive rewards with little to no effort -- which they know is not the intent of the designers or healthy for the game.
This is not "working smarter", it is purposely attempting to find bugs to exploit. No one does this innocently, although some may find a given exploit by accident. Honest players report said exploit so the devs are aware of it and can address it.
It's not that they 'don't give a damn' about small fleets; they HAVE openly stated from DAY ONE of the Fleet system that they designed progression around an active 25 player fleet; and did so that if you decided to make and maintain a smaller Fleet, you had an idea of what you're in for.
^^^
They're never stated anything differently with regard to Fleets and Fleet progression, so how much more upfront or honest can they be regarding this particular design decision?
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Its taken 4 days to come up with that?!
Also... it's quite clear that you missed the point. This isn't just about FM. I kinda lost the will to care now anyway...
...#LLAP...
If this is the case, then I sympathise.
However, it is equally clear that Mr Stahl is in no way fit at the moment to deal with this issue.
Mr Stahl should go home, do all he can for his family and delegate responsibility for fixing the horrendous valentines day massacre patch to someone with the clout to actually make changes
Waiting until thursday for an unspecified fix to unspecified issues is unacceptable.
Not apologising in the slightest for the terrible way this has been handled is also unacceptable.
This is your answer?
Do you think that your customers want to hear that we may have to wait SEVERAL months?
A HINT? Come on mate, most of your player base are adults, which in itself makes this very different from many other MMOs! We're not children. Don't give us hints, give us answers.
And how about all the other ISSUES that have been raised here, will you drop us any HINTS about when we can reasonably expect some CHANGE around here.
We are not metrics that you can read and "interpret" in such a way as to fit your business model.
We are actually most genuinely unhappy, this thread and its responses aren't coming from data-mining software, it's coming from living breathing PAYING customers.
Now for this ==>
Then after this thread has clearly shown that being kept in the dark is a huge issue on its own you post this...
Really I don't have the words, or to be honest the will to give any kind of response to this.
But I'll ask this for the heck of it... Will this CHANGE be THOROUGHLY DEBUGGED and PLAYTESTED on the Tribble TEST SERVER, before releasing it for our use? Which I hope will mean Tribble patch notes, so that we can decide whether or not to patch and play?
(Just a little point, that refers to the whole time gating issue, Ok so it takes 20 yrs or more to build a starbase, but then again it also takes 25+ yrs to make Vice Admiral... [ensign to VA50 ~ 3-4 weeks in game])
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
25 people. But people are not all equal as I'm sure you know already. Not all of us are the "UBERMEGAomfgWTF no life grinder" that their metric would seem to call for.
Well, hows about stating how the assess their metrics? How's about detailing how much play they expect those 25 "average joes" in their generic fleet to play in order to make a t5 base?
They could also cut out most of the "truuuuust meeee" stuff and tell us what is happening?
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Mediocrity is in the eye-of-the-beholder... Not everybody playing this game finds it to be as lacking as you apparently do.
I've hit a few of the bugs in the game and have often been frustrated by them, but I've also seen how many of the past bugs are slowly being dealt with.
The game is not perfect and neither are the folks running it, but since it's apparent to me at this time that They are doing what they can to improve it overall (while still trying to make a living from it AND please their bosses), I'm willing to make the best of the situation.
The game has come a looong way since it first opened, the road has been fraught with potholes and half built bridges, but in my opinion, it's still fun to play.
When it stops being fun for me, I'll find something else to do and look back with found memories.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Considering we went from "25 folks playing a few hours a week will be gated only by the completion time of the starbase" to "25 folks playing multiple hours a day will be required to finish a starbase within a year", I think it's safe to say that expectations have radically changed.
People in smaller fleets were assured that that would be able to make reasonable and steady progress through the system with a reasonable amount of time invested. Not at the rate that large fleets are able to, but steady progress nonetheless. That's absolutely not the case, and you know it.
So then tell me, if they removed the tips, from the game entirely, would you continue to make them? Would you really continue to do so? If they don't matter that much would you join a random fleet each week and drop the DIL into a project for them? (while extreme, it shows just how much they matter)
Star Trek.
That comment was made in relation to a personal request made by him, and he already explained his motivation for doing so there. It has nothing to do with this, so let's leave that out of this discussion. If that was the reason behind the lack of response in this thread, all he had to do was tell us so. I'm not *that* bitchy that I wouldn't be able to sympathise, and I trust the same applies to everyone here. However, that has neither been stated nor implied, so I suggest we leave that out of this discussion, since it is not relevant.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Believe me, when I see a loophole or flaw I'll call it a loophole or flaw. What they have here is BUGGY CODE! Most of this post has nothing to do with The Foundry or Fleet Marks. Those are just the latest in a string of bad decisions and changes made by Cryptic.
The release of Season 7 was a bad decision. It was released, and still is, broken. They should have QC'd for another month, and actually listened to their player base that told them beforehand how that content would be received. Same as this last patch. 75+ pages telling them about bugs, and how their players would view their changes, all in ONE DAY. and they went live with the patch anyways.
This is not smart decision making, which is mostly Epic Fail...
Now go grind your 3 hours so you can make enough Omega Marks, Romulan Marks, Fleet Marks and Lobi's so you can line up to do it again tomorrow.
And BTW, that 3 hour estimate was conservative...
Fair enough, I couldn't see the original post as the thread had been closed, I was just replying to the comment made in this thread.
...This...
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The first of which being is the assumption there are more exploiters out weighing the non exploiters. Imo I think there are more important exploit fixes that should come such as I don't know. Season 4's supposedly revamped ground pvp... to this day and for months there is nothing but, exploits.
Secondly: Removing something with nothing to replace it is a very very bad move and will only further highlight the lack of game progression. Simply putting something in the future is simply just not good enough and will only further bring player discontent.
Thirdly: We hear a lot of the term "balance". So were more interested in Balancing the Fleet bases... which aren't imo and are completely bias towards smaller fleets. But, yet although the focus is on balancing the bases, but not balancing the game play such as P2W consoles, beams = rubbish... y'know there are too many to list, see the feedback.
That just totally baffles me that we are more interested in base balance than anything else.
In conclusion I feel the bases are restricted like this to only further force players to continue to play the same content over and over to keep the game numbers up. Let's face it's all about the marketing strategy to keep players interested. Repeating stuff over and over again will not keep any player interested... it will just bore them to death. I mean I just pvp these days (which is the only decent end game stuff to do and that's broken, due to balance) or help with the dith grind or FM grind. I'm slowly thinking a short break "not raging" would be good now, but alas I do love the community in my fleets and that's what keeps me here. I believe that Dstal is just stuck simply with the pressures of PWE and that's what is really the route cause of these issues. I wouldn't entirely blame him for this move.
I've played three MMO's... SWG, WoW and STO...
SWG was really great, till they drastically changed it.
WoW was fun for a while, but my interest in D&D type stuff is waning as I get older.
STO is still fun for me as a Trekker, nothing this game does will change my feelings I have toward the IP...
While it's available I'm going to play it and enjoy it to the best of my ability...
There's nothing like it available anywhere else.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
As for resources given to my fleet? Three toons contribute basically everything they have to my fleet, thank you very much. Only one toon farms for me, and he doesn't bring in that much.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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Well I would say you're the rare animal, and when your ready to drop some of the worthless tips into a fleet, let me know, I know of a few who would take them willingly, and maybe even give you something in exchange.
That's probably why this game is so meh, no other choices and the devs know people will fork over money because it is Star Trek
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
This is your response? After 2000 posts objecting to the lack of transparency, lack of discussion, and excessive grind of the game in general, and making many detailed proposals to improve the situation, your response is, "We're moving up the timetable on these new ways to grind we won't tell you about, but I'm going to pretend this was the plan all along. The first change is coming in 48 hours, but I'm not telling you about that either. Trust me."
Why should we trust you, Mr. Stahl? You and your team have a long history of doing as much to hurt Star Trek Online and TRIBBLE over its playerbase as you do to improve the game and help us. Worse, even changes that you have claimed would help us have often proven detrimental instead. So we must consider your judgement and/or motives and/or honesty to be suspect. Therefore, our role as forum posters is not to trust you, but rather to serve as watchdogs, examining every move you make and screaming bloody murder when you do something harmful. Many of us would love to contribute more to the process of designing the game, and you've gotten plenty of free business advice in this thread, but the only role you allow us is that of watchdogs, so that is the role we must fill.
Your most recent post is just more of the same things we've been objecting to all along. This isn't an answer, and it isn't a fix. Don't expect this to satisfy us, and don't expect this to keep us here. If anything, you've driven me that much closer to leaving. And I don't want to leave.
Honestly, the main reasons I still play STO are because I have friends here and because being a top member of my fleet lets me feel like there's some kind of a point to my life (and yeah, I'm probably depressed, deal with it). The more you force us to grind and the more you disrespect us the less I feel like this is worth it. You're pushing me right to the edge of leaving the game entirely. I haven't actually played in days, just logged on to see fleet chat so I can help out anyone with questions, and I didn't even do that yesterday. If this keeps up, I may very well quit STO and go back to some of my many other games.
We are quite literally, the golden geese. Metaphorically speaking of course.
*HAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWNKK* Oh look, I just laid another golden egg. Come on and earn it Cryptic!
I truley believe most foundry authors do it because they want to tell a good story within the confines of the game, and I'm sure I can speak for most people when I say we appreciate it.
It's only a few authors who insist we play their (and only their) "Wuthering Heights in Space" that people take issue with.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
At this point, why should they bother as for a lot of posters, it's gotten to the point that unless they say:
"You people against this change were 100% correct -- we're performing an emergency patch to rollback all recent reward changes right now..."
then you don't want to hear it. Dan came back after a holiday weekend, posted in this thread that they will be upping the FM rewards in other content starting with this next patch; (and other the weekend the majority of this thread seemed to be:
"Can someone from Cryptic please respond to this thread and tell us what you plan to do?"
So they do that and it's still - "Not enough - I want an answer and fix to all my issues now!"
So IDK, but with a situation such as the above where if they don't say anything they're attacked; and if they do say anything, they're still attacked -- if I were them, I'd go with the attitude of:
"Why bother, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't."
Because in the end, the honest fact is, most of the people who play STO (or any MMO) rarely (if ever) bother with reading or posting to the official forums; and the majority of players who like the game, just play it. That's why one of the major forms of feedback they use is metrics, because in the end, that determines potential for income generation, etc.
The ONLY ti,me they get worried if if they see a MASSIVE downturn in concurrent player numbers, or see the game isn't retaining new players who download it (IE they quit after a few levels or in the tutorial and never log in again.)
And if you want a real world STO example where the STO Forum feedback and real world STO metrics conflict; and clearly show the feedback from the minority on the Forums DOESN'T coincide with their real world player metrics feedback, I give you:
The Lockbox situation (and BTW, I'm not at all for having Lockboxes and I make my view know in game by NOT buying or using Lockboxes or Master Keys in any way -- that said:)
If you go by STO Forum feedback, Lockboxes are a negative item, bringing down the enjoyment of STO for a lot of players (by the comments posted)
YET -- their metrics show (and the Devs have backed this up by comments in interviews):
The sales of Master Keys to open Lockboxes is the most lucrative/successful method that STO has to generate revenue and profit to date. Like it or not, that's the situation; and I'm sure if that wasn't the case; we'd see Lockboxes and Master Keys completely disappear from STO in a heartbeat.
So, here's a bonifide case where if Cryptic simply used Forum feedback and the main/only source; they'd loose their major source of income generation, see less profit; and we as players would see slower STO game development, STO would have a smaller dev team, etc.
^^^
That's a trap you can fall into if you don't look at multiple sources of feedback to help paint a clearer picture of a large complex situation.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I refuse to grind like that.
If you go back over my post history for the last few months, you'll find that I'm one of those players calling for less grind and more story/episodic content. My little 5-player fleet probably won't get past Tier 2 with our starbase, because we'd rather play "real" content than grind.
I have one character who is almost through the Romulan rep grind -- because I want to play the missions gated behind said grind. It is the last time I will do so. New Romulus is fun on occasion, but it is no more fun as a "daily" than any other content. I may revisit it on other characters later, but just as additional "story-light" missions in their careers, not with any intention of running through the whole rep grind.
Conversely, I have never been tempted to cheat my way through the grind by participating in obvious exploits. No game is all that important to me. Either I have fun with what I do or I find something better to do.
STO is fun; it's just limited the amount of mission content available -- especially when compared to other MMOs.
Again, it's not just about the rewards. That point seem to be lost on the CDF and Cryptic.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind