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Update on Fleet Marks and Dilithium

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  • olivia211olivia211 Member Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    gpgtx wrote: »
    well not a lot of places have the day off not even government facilities as i still had to go to work at a public school.

    so it's kind of forgiven.

    President's Day is considered a federal holiday so state workers still had to go in, but fed workers were off. For any other business not considered federal or is privately owned, it's really up to their boss if they are open or not.
    No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    unikon wrote: »
    That EVE thing was a rare sight with a rare community.

    Most "gamers" don't know how to protest or maintain self control. Its not about having a central place where everyone can protest. Its about actually consistently protesting in a large number and using sales as a weapon.

    Look throughout the times where "Gamers" were "upset" about various games. No protest, no conviction. They stated their little complaint on a comments section and went back to the status quo like a child hoping to get another happy meal.

    You're leaving out the fact that the most successful instances of player protest have one thing in common: a game architecture that can be crashed at will by collective player action.
  • lordagamemnonb5lordagamemnonb5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    unikon wrote: »
    That EVE thing was a rare sight with a rare community.

    Most "gamers" don't know how to protest or maintain self control. Its not about having a central place where everyone can protest. Its about actually consistently protesting in a large number and using sales as a weapon.

    Look throughout the times where "Gamers" were "upset" about various games. No protest, no conviction. They stated their little complaint on a comments section and went back to the status quo like a child hoping to get another happy meal.

    If this really is a sticking point with users then they will organize a protest and stick with it until demands are met. Speaking with your wallet is a valid form of protest, but doesn't mean jack to the multi-million dollar conglomerate if you're the only one doing it.

    Sad but true.

    There are too many people in this game willing to accept (and even pay for) mediocrity, and the devs most definately feed off and make money from those who must have the newest ship, regardless if they have nothing to do in game with said ship.

    Reminds me of a thread I saw a few weeks ago, where someone was mad that there was a limit to the ship slots he could buy. No way anyone could need damned near every ship in the game, but with people willing to fork over money despite failure after failure from the devs is what lets things like this happen.
    How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
    Star Trek: The Original Grind
    Star Trek: The Next Grind
    Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
    Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
  • jam062307jam062307 Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    You're leaving out the fact that the most successful instances of player protest have one thing in common: a game architecture that can be crashed at will by collective player action.

    Unfortunatley we don't have to do that...Cryptic does it themselves every other patch!
    STOP THE
    tacofangs wrote: »
    We planned on doing it next weekend, but then we saw your post and were like, "Dude, we should totally move that up a week! Tee Hee!"
  • lordagamemnonb5lordagamemnonb5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    olivia211 wrote: »
    President's Day is considered a federal holiday so state workers still had to go in, but fed workers were off. For any other business not considered federal or is privately owned, it's really up to their boss if they are open or not.

    Depends on the state as well. Maryland state and local got a free day :D
    How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
    Star Trek: The Original Grind
    Star Trek: The Next Grind
    Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
    Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
  • thebumblethebumble Member Posts: 2
    edited February 2013
    84,996 views for this thread alone...

    Awesome...
  • kyuui13kyuui13 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    You're leaving out the fact that the most successful instances of player protest have one thing in common: a game architecture that can be crashed at will by collective player action.

    Not, that 'm instigating, but, well it could be done in STO. It was done in Wow as well
    Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
    dastahl wrote: »
    If you can't have fun, then what is the point?
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    kyuui13 wrote: »
    Not, that 'm instigating, but, well it could be done in STO. It was done in Wow as well

    Sharding will make that difficult methinks...
  • idronaidrona Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Meanwhile on Sesame Street.
    signwidrona.png
  • olivia211olivia211 Member Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Sharding will make that difficult methinks...

    There are ways to do it. I can't say how because I don't want to get another warning about posts here.
    No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
  • kyuui13kyuui13 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Sharding will make that difficult methinks...

    Not in the least,
    Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
    dastahl wrote: »
    If you can't have fun, then what is the point?
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    idrona wrote: »
    Meanwhile on Sesame Street.

    That was awful. You should be permanently banned from ever posting on the forums for that. :P
  • idronaidrona Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    That was awful. You should be permanently banned from ever posting on the forums for that. :P

    Just trying to cheer you up bit. :)
    signwidrona.png
  • themariethemarie Member Posts: 1,055 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Well no reply today I guess!

    However they did fix some of the more glaring failures of the last patch -- BO slotting is still borked to heck though.

    Guess I'll log out and go do something productive with the rest of my evening -- like star in a Harlem Shake video. :rolleyes:

    Tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode of RageWatch 2013: STO Valentines Day Massacre Patch Edition! :D
  • kyuui13kyuui13 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    idrona wrote: »
    Just trying to cheer you up bit. :)

    heh you could have done worse I supposed. But trust me I don't need cheering up, I'm happy doing what I am doing.
    Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
    dastahl wrote: »
    If you can't have fun, then what is the point?
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited February 2013
    Let the players decide

    On all missions allow players to select their reward from the loot bag with a pull down menue

    Completing a stf in my loot bag i can select

    Romulan marks
    Omega marks
    Fleet marks


    EC
    Gear
    t
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • bizzarquestionbizzarquestion Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    jellico1 wrote: »
    Let the players decide

    On all missions allow players to select their reward from the loot bag with a pull down menue

    Completing a stf in my loot bag i can select

    Romulan marks
    Omega marks
    Fleet marks


    EC
    Gear
    t

    Unfortunately this only remedies a fraction of the issues.


    Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
  • wirtddwirtdd Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    jellico1 wrote: »
    Let the players decide

    On all missions allow players to select their reward from the loot bag with a pull down menue

    Completing a stf in my loot bag i can select

    Romulan marks
    Omega marks
    Fleet marks


    EC
    Gear
    t

    ^^ That. :)
    Bastet
  • born2bwild1born2bwild1 Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    so what do I get for having the 2000th post?
  • bloctoadbloctoad Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    so what do I get for having the 2000th post?

    The continued dissatisfaction of it being equally useless as the previous 1999.
    Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content."
    Al Rivera hates Klingons
    Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
    All cloaks should be canon.
  • born2bwild1born2bwild1 Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    bloctoad wrote: »
    The continued dissatisfaction of it being equally useless as the previous 1999.

    you sir have the winning post of the day!!:P:eek:
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.

    Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:

    Very Small (1-25)
    Small (26-50)
    Medium (51-100)
    Large (101-200)
    Vary Large (201-500)

    The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)

    The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.

    At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.

    Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.

    Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
    Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
    Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
    Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
    Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions

    These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • bizzarquestionbizzarquestion Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    so what do I get for having the 2000th post?

    You get three cookies and 600 FM. Oh too soon?

    Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
  • thisisoverlordthisisoverlord Member Posts: 949 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    elessym wrote: »
    So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.

    Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:

    Very Small (1-25)
    Small (26-50)
    Medium (51-100)
    Large (101-200)
    Vary Large (201-500)

    The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)

    The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.

    At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.

    Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.

    Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
    Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
    Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
    Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
    Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions

    These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.

    Nice proposal and more interesting to read than Stahl's statement of the teams lack of creativity or thought with their Option A / Option B failed paradigm.:o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    #2311#2700#2316#2500
  • merrick1992merrick1992 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    so what do I get for having the 2000th post?

    bloctoad wrote: »
    The continued dissatisfaction of it being equally useless as the previous 1999.


    And that means the forums are "working as intended."
    STOP THE GRIND: BRING BACK THE FUN!
  • kyuui13kyuui13 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    elessym wrote: »

    The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost.

    No. Anything that takes away from progress already made, is Not acceptable. If you've earned it, you keep it, NO exceptions.
    Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
    dastahl wrote: »
    If you can't have fun, then what is the point?
  • husserehussere Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    elessym wrote: »
    So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.

    Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:

    Very Small (1-25)
    Small (26-50)
    Medium (51-100)
    Large (101-200)
    Vary Large (201-500)

    The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)

    The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.

    At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.

    Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.

    Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
    Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
    Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
    Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
    Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions

    These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.

    This is the smartest idea that came about fleet scaling;

    Tho i might disagree with some points it is something that should be doable.

    Now 2 things
    _ Obivously and unfortunatly players can't make suggestions about the game devs want us to play regardless of the cost in 'fun' marks to the player, since it seems we are not listened to ; AKA Tribble server feedbacks get the finger.
    _ How sad it is you/we have to give suggestions out and do the job in place of cryptic game designers team; That seemed unable to come with a solution as good as you just gave; Making it it option A or B whatsoever not possible to dig more into the concept...


    Bring back the FUN;

    and what Gravitar said it all bout the FUN and Grind on page 139 again :
    gr4v1t4r wrote: »
    Let's be honest, this is about far more then just the IOR. Tensions have been high since about halfway S6 when it became clear that bugs weren't getting fixed, requirements wouldn't be lowered etc. What we see here is what happens when you have a community that's on edge. The smallest additional affront just make thing's boil over. Or maybe a flash over would be a better analogy. This is just like when they took out the STF rewards. By this change they didn't just take away an easy source of fleetmarks, they effectively force us to get them elsewhere. In other words, we are being forced to do things we don't want to do and they take longer then the IOR did too. Our fun just got diminished, and because it takes longer we have less time for things we *do* enjoy. Look at the STF rewards, things stayed unruly untill the item drops where restored. Simply because getting an item, or having the chance to get one, is fun . I never understood why the reputation system had to replace the old system. Those unlucky few who didn't get their tech drops would have had the guarantee of being able to get them, and the rest of us could enjoy looking forward to the lootbag at the end. The dev's keep thinking all we care about is dilithium and fleetmarks, etc. but we don't. If they ever introduce new drop-only gear that can be collected by doing missions with an STF structure, I would play them all day long regardless of them rewarding marks of any kind or dilithium. There no longer are real achievements in this game, it's all about endurance and perseverence now. It isn't rewarding to play this game anymore. All the stuff is either buyable for zen/dilithium, or EC(which effectively is also buyable by zen or dilithium). Sure, you need some marks, running some elites will get you those quick enough. Or I guess grinding down eppohs if you need RM's.

    This game as it stands now, has become a grindfest. Now, that in itself isn't that big of a deal. The problem is that a lot of us are not mmo fans or whatever, we are here because of Star Trek. That means that this game has incredible potential, with loyal fans. However, it also means they can't treat us like mmo fans who like to grind all day. Most of us love the IP to much to just walk away, so we will put up with it for a while....But sooner or later, we will reach a breaking point, where even the most loyal Star Trek fan refuses to put up with this any longer. That would mean the end of this game, because aside from the IP this game has nothing to offer. There are several mmo's out there, that from a gameplay perspective are far better developed, there are several that are more fun, etc.

    Basicly they have the goose laying golden egg's here, only they keep pushing the goose for more egg's. Hell, they are close to taking a chokehold on the goose and shake it for more golden egg's. At the short term that might work, and the goose will lay some additional golden egg's, but then it will die. Keeping the goose happy and entertained might produce a few daily egg's less, but the goose will lay those egg's for years and years to come.

    Stop trying to force the community to spend money, if you present us with enjoyable content, gameplay, bugfixes, fun items, etc. we will gladly give it to you!!!

    Bring back the FUN; We want less GRINDFEST.
    A Disenchanted player
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    kyuui13 wrote: »
    No. Anything that takes away from progress already made, is Not acceptable. If you've earned it, you keep it, NO exceptions.

    If you don't want to lose it, then you don't upgrade. Or you start off with your fleet at Very Large. If you want the lower scaling costs, then you accept that you might lose progress if you ever decide to upgrade fleet size, but it's always your choice.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • bizzarquestionbizzarquestion Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    There have been many suggestions regarding sliding scale costs for fleets. Some good, some bad. The problem is regardless of how well thought out the ideas we have are, the likelihood of PWE/Cryptic actually implementing them is close to nil. They WANT to control us. They WANT to make it difficult for small fleets to achieve success. They KNOW the majority of players are in small fleets. Butts in seats. I have been saying this since they nerfed dilithium back with the introduction of S7.

    Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
  • edited February 2013
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