Maybe that was this Universe's Dan and what we have now is Dan from the Terran Empire? Awfully contradictory....
EDIT: I wanted to include this Massively interview as well where he talks about 'slowing down to fix things' instead of adding a bunch of new stuff....
If you want to make a statement and really let your outrage be known regarding this issue and the myriad of others unresolved, don't buy the new Andorian line. Make them feel it in their pocketbook for once or that will be the end of this and we're destined for it to happen all over again. And again and again. Speak with your wallet and let that wallet be silent.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
I think they have some strong technical understanding of their field but I don't know that translates into strong business management and I think they look at metrics as game designers, not marketing or management specialists.
That's just part of the problem, the second half of it is more on the personal level. They have poor personal skills when it comes to relationships with their customers. They continually compound it, with little to no support. No VISIBLE GM support in game, I can go on but you're a smart person and know exactly what I mean.
And even then, I'll lodge some doubts about entirely numbers based business management. Nobody can predict the stock market at a rate of what...? 10% better than random? At best, management informed by and concerned with numeric modeling is an unimpressive but safe way to operate if you stick to making unimpressive and safe decisions.
which it seems the can't even do right, the genesis for this thread would indicate that.
However, if you find your decisions rock the boat, you either need to scale back those decisions or start basing them on strong qualitative principles or information.
I'd agree with this, however, experience and past practices of Cryptic lead me to believe they will never do it. Its either they can't, or they don't know how, at best, or at worst, they just don't care.
no worries from me i am not greatly impressed by them
but then again i still fly a gal-r soo maybe i am not the best example LOL
Actually, you are, You're happy with your ship, they made a ship that made you happy, and you got it. Amazing thought isn't it. Make something someone likes they buy it?
Cryptic keeps biting themselves in the TRIBBLE with this TRIBBLE. they spend so much time working an so little time playing that there are really only 2 suggestions i can offer.
1. TRIBBLE- It s a test server, USE IT! - all your patches, not just mass-testing updates... ALL the patches should go here and the Players on it mirrored rather regularly. This allows you to WATCH players play the content(or not if it's broken) and from there continue your planing with what to do.
2. I suggest the creation of a CCM(Cryptic Consumer Management) much like EVE's CSM... a group of well-known STO players, podcasters, and in-game fleet leaders specifically tasked with engaging the DEVs and programmers(from a players prospective) on how upcoming content and or "fixes" can be implemented or released without causing this very predicament.....
If these options continue being Ignored you can very well find yourselves at the same point EVE Online was. Where people were canceling subscriptions in the thousands. Many of whom STILL haven't returned.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
GENE RODDENBERRY if he saw this would turn in his grave.!!! and i dont mean the outcry from the players.. i mean the fact it (no matter what) falls on deaf ears!
Yeah, whatever pal. If Gene were alive, as long as Cryptic or CBS sent him his cut, he'd be happy.
Maybe you didn't know this about Gene, but he was in it for the money. The guy wrote song lyrics to the TOS theme. Know why? So he could get half of the music composers royalty check. Luckily, he never used the lyrics, but c'mon - he wasn't a saint. He was a nice guy who had an interesting idea for making money in the television/movie business.
There is no need to bring the dead into this discussion. Our complaints are perfectly valid without having to invoke the poor dead guys memory.
Maybe that was this Universe's Dan and what we have now is Dan from the Terran Empire? Awfully contradictory....
EDIT: I wanted to include this Massively interview as well where he talks about 'slowing down to fix things' instead of adding a bunch of new stuff....
'ZAM: In an interview you mentioned that your favorite part of STO is the "ability to level up, customize and play as both a Starship in space and a Captain on away missions." Does this mean the community can expect more aggressive PvE development in the future?
Stahl: My comment was more in line with the fact that Star Trek content can span a wide variety of gameplay elements. On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant running missions in a variety of environments instead of being stuck grinding rabbits in the slums until you level and move on to somewhere "new."'
'ZAM: In an interview you mentioned that your favorite part of STO is the "ability to level up, customize and play as both a Starship in space and a Captain on away missions." Does this mean the community can expect more aggressive PvE development in the future?
Stahl: My comment was more in line with the fact that Star Trek content can span a wide variety of gameplay elements. On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant running missions in a variety of environments instead of being stuck grinding rabbits in the slums until you level and move on to somewhere "new."'
.
Only regards one of the many complaints that people are talking about but here is another idea that I either just thought up or stole with my mind control skills.......
Work out the average size of a fleet since they were formed and use that as a their base to scale from. If it is weekly fleet size data since fleets were formed that is used then unless I am missing something it will not help to throw everyone out to get things cheaper and then invite them all back.
The only exploit that I can think of is that you must have a base amount for the minimum number of people in the fleet to scale from. Big fleets could use that to let their hundreds of fleet mates save costs on while they all take turns rotating in and out.
A way around that in theory could be to take the time people have been in the fleet into consideration, something like a veterans award. Give bonuses on fleet credits earned when contributing for instance, or give slight discounts in costs to buying things. It would probably be prudent to reset this veterans reward timer each time they leave a fleet. Doing that should also stop people from just paying to join a big fleet to buy stuff and then leave which would also be a boon to Cryptic.
I'd like to think I'm one of the calm ones here, and even if I disagree with several things Dan said, I'll give him credit for coming in here surely knowing in advance what he was walking in to. It's not like he actually had to do it.
Also boglejam73: your signature rules. And I actually liked that episode, because I'm that guy.
Ummm no,, just no. Dan came on here to try to put out a 20-story building fire with a gardenhose....and he failed in doing it badly at that...its why he also left the "building" forum room so fast.
After the backlash of the IOR Dil, then the fix..they in their great wisdom decide to take another whack at the foundry missions to nerf another reward? Seriously, that shows a great disregard for your playerbase..
And btw? i'm calm about all this actually...you see, our small fleet KNEW we would get nerf batted by Cryptic sooner or later if we tried hard to upgrade our SB and Embassy...so we just continued to play the game how WE wanted...Doffing....missions. Stf's. etc
To me? All this proves is ya just can't these guys at all..and that means you Stahl.
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Regardless of what others may do we must stay the course until something changes. What that change maybe that would satisfy you is up to you.
We know the CDF will buy their new Andorian shinnies, whose chrome will blind them to the fact that there isn't anything new in the game to do with these new ships, but whatever you convictions are, you must stick to them.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
2) He was a business man like any other. Hell, he even wrote lyrics to Star Trek's main theme just so he could cash in on the loyalties. Kind of sounds like something Cryptic/PWE would do.
Yeah, whatever pal. If Gene were alive, as long as Cryptic or CBS sent him his cut, he'd be happy.
Maybe you didn't know this about Gene, but he was in it for the money. The guy wrote song lyrics to the TOS theme. Know why? So he could get half of the music composers royalty check. Luckily, he never used the lyrics, but c'mon - he wasn't a saint. He was a nice guy who had an interesting idea for making money in the television/movie business.
There is no need to bring the dead into this discussion. Our complaints are perfectly valid without having to invoke the poor dead guys memory.
Great minds think alike
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Maybe that was this Universe's Dan and what we have now is Dan from the Terran Empire? Awfully contradictory....
EDIT: I wanted to include this Massively interview as well where he talks about 'slowing down to fix things' instead of adding a bunch of new stuff....
I remember those days... but in Dan's defense, with game going free to play it had to change the dynamic to some degree to incorporate grind for those who want to achieve zen from not paying. I still don't think this is the right balance for all though since this game is a hybrid of subscribers and F2P.
It almost seems like they were shooting for an EVE type of setup and maybe if everyone had to subscribe or earn enough in game credits to play free might have been an interesting twist on this game. I probably wouldn't subscribe today because the sub offer isn't compelling anymore.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
- My reaction? Why are you adding FM to this? But, okay, this benefits me.
They reduced IOR to a 30 minute cooldown, 1 mission instead of 3.
- My reaction? Why didn't you reduce the number of FM when you made it repeatable? But, okay, this benefits me.
They remove IOR.
- My reaction? What the heck? I was starting to see the sense in including it. Even solo Foundry play IS a social activity. It WAS time gated. I could have seen reducing it but the difference between even 1 FM and 0 is so vast that I think you guys earned all the rage you'll get over this.
I remember in the beginning I used to be excited for updates and patches... now I see Thursdays with fear. It would be nice to look forward to those Thursday patches when things are getting fixed and or new items rolling out that entice you to have fun playing again, but those day may long be past.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Also boglejam73: your signature rules. And I actually liked that episode, because I'm that guy.
Why, thank you. I'm rather fond of my TTSN. For the record, I don't blame (only) him for the demise of Enterprise. If Enterprise could survive its really bad first season, surely it could survive something as silly as time travelling space TRIBBLE.
So, 195 pages, 1,941 posts I wonder what their metrics will say about this?
Personally I do hope Brandon does read each of these posts. I'd hope Dan, Al and every lead designer in cryptic takes the time as well. This feedback is 10x better than your metrics. This is peoples reactions to them.
I probably wouldn't subscribe today because the sub offer isn't compelling anymore.
I almost feel disapointed for getting an LTS when I pre-ordered, especially when seeing how the game is now. Heck, the only difference between me and a free player is the monthly stipend, of which I have 6000+ zen (haven't played in a while prior to last November) and nothing really to spend it on. I wanted to get the Vesta for my new Science toon but this patch about killed my enthusiasm for the game. I only log on the help fleetmates by making and contributing dilithium and fleet marks.
Until something is done, that Zen won't be going into the pot, nor will part of my tax return be spent on zen.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
96+ hours not logging into game. Ill be here bright an early 8 am pst Tuesday for a nice big "Howdy do" to PWE. I'm curious if we will hit 300 pages before any official repsonse is given to this fiasco.
I almost feel disapointed for getting an LTS when I pre-ordered, especially when seeing how the game is now. Heck, the only difference between me and a free player is the monthly stipend, of which I have 6000+ zen (haven't played in a while prior to last November) and nothing really to spend it on. I wanted to get the Vesta for my new Science toon but this patch about killed my enthusiasm for the game. I only log on the help fleetmates by making and contributing dilithium and fleet marks.
Until something is done, that Zen won't be going into the pot, nor will part of my tax return be spent on zen.
I know right before season 7 came out during that last LTS sale I bought a second one for a family member... if I could turn back time it certainly wouldn't have happened. I too have boatloads of zen and I have gotten my monies worth from the beginning on my first one but certainly not my second one. I don't even have anything to spend the zen on... I like the Vesta and the new Andorian ship bundles look good but so what if there isn't a mission I want to play it with, so I wait. I've been playing the M.E. Trilogy right now as something to be more entertaining and await the new trek game or changes to this one.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
There was a time when you guys spent your time working on content, telling stories, and generally trying to add Star Trek things to your Star Trek game.
These days you spend your time monitoring how many pellets hamsters get for running on your wheel.
You have my sympathy in that, as that must be extremely boring and completely not what you signed up for when you came back from Zynga.
So, 195 pages, 1,941 posts I wonder what their metrics will say about this?
Personally I do hope Brandon does read each of these posts. I'd hope Dan, Al and every lead designer in cryptic takes the time as well. This feedback is 10x better than your metrics. This is peoples reactions to them.
Do you listen?
Reaction of minority of player base vs. metrics of all of player base
Which do you think will be more accurate?
(that said, maybe their all of player base metrics agrees with you...or not)
Reaction of minority of player base vs. metrics of all of player base
Which do you think will be more accurate?
(that said, maybe their all of player base metrics agrees with you...or not)
for every 1 customer that complains, there are at least 5 more who agree but who won't speak up. Same goes for the happy.
Either way. Metrics do not gauge customer interaction with others, or how my decisions to not play and play other games have lead to several more doing the same.
Reaction of minority of player base vs. metrics of all of player base
Which do you think will be more accurate?
(that said, maybe their all of player base metrics agrees with you...or not)
How do you know we are actually the minority?
And we can't really prove, nor disprove, their so called metrics sense apparently it is a matter of national security they don't get released for playerbase/peer review. Heck, even SWTOR has third party websites that track server population (or at least they did the last time I played).
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Comments
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=22916
Maybe that was this Universe's Dan and what we have now is Dan from the Terran Empire? Awfully contradictory....
EDIT: I wanted to include this Massively interview as well where he talks about 'slowing down to fix things' instead of adding a bunch of new stuff....
http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07/26/our-interview-with-star-trek-onlines-executive-producer-dan-sta/
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
That's just part of the problem, the second half of it is more on the personal level. They have poor personal skills when it comes to relationships with their customers. They continually compound it, with little to no support. No VISIBLE GM support in game, I can go on but you're a smart person and know exactly what I mean.
which it seems the can't even do right, the genesis for this thread would indicate that.
I'd agree with this, however, experience and past practices of Cryptic lead me to believe they will never do it. Its either they can't, or they don't know how, at best, or at worst, they just don't care.
but then again i still fly a gal-r soo maybe i am not the best example LOL
Actually, you are, You're happy with your ship, they made a ship that made you happy, and you got it. Amazing thought isn't it. Make something someone likes they buy it?
1. TRIBBLE- It s a test server, USE IT! - all your patches, not just mass-testing updates... ALL the patches should go here and the Players on it mirrored rather regularly. This allows you to WATCH players play the content(or not if it's broken) and from there continue your planing with what to do.
2. I suggest the creation of a CCM(Cryptic Consumer Management) much like EVE's CSM... a group of well-known STO players, podcasters, and in-game fleet leaders specifically tasked with engaging the DEVs and programmers(from a players prospective) on how upcoming content and or "fixes" can be implemented or released without causing this very predicament.....
If these options continue being Ignored you can very well find yourselves at the same point EVE Online was. Where people were canceling subscriptions in the thousands. Many of whom STILL haven't returned.
Into Darkness... indeed...
Yeah, whatever pal. If Gene were alive, as long as Cryptic or CBS sent him his cut, he'd be happy.
Maybe you didn't know this about Gene, but he was in it for the money. The guy wrote song lyrics to the TOS theme. Know why? So he could get half of the music composers royalty check. Luckily, he never used the lyrics, but c'mon - he wasn't a saint. He was a nice guy who had an interesting idea for making money in the television/movie business.
There is no need to bring the dead into this discussion. Our complaints are perfectly valid without having to invoke the poor dead guys memory.
Thanks for the zam.com site !
quoted from http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=22916 08/03/2010 :
'ZAM: In an interview you mentioned that your favorite part of STO is the "ability to level up, customize and play as both a Starship in space and a Captain on away missions." Does this mean the community can expect more aggressive PvE development in the future?
Stahl: My comment was more in line with the fact that Star Trek content can span a wide variety of gameplay elements. On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant running missions in a variety of environments instead of being stuck grinding rabbits in the slums until you level and move on to somewhere "new."'
I'm so sorry that spirit has gone from game.
Epohh tagging anyone......anyone.....
Work out the average size of a fleet since they were formed and use that as a their base to scale from. If it is weekly fleet size data since fleets were formed that is used then unless I am missing something it will not help to throw everyone out to get things cheaper and then invite them all back.
The only exploit that I can think of is that you must have a base amount for the minimum number of people in the fleet to scale from. Big fleets could use that to let their hundreds of fleet mates save costs on while they all take turns rotating in and out.
A way around that in theory could be to take the time people have been in the fleet into consideration, something like a veterans award. Give bonuses on fleet credits earned when contributing for instance, or give slight discounts in costs to buying things. It would probably be prudent to reset this veterans reward timer each time they leave a fleet. Doing that should also stop people from just paying to join a big fleet to buy stuff and then leave which would also be a boon to Cryptic.
LOL
But seriously, I always had them down as more "rat pig things"
That is to funny and so sad that is so true. Now I am stuck in o
ne sector grinding my time away.
:rolleyes: but they're not rabbits !!! 11!
heh
Don't you hate it when things you say come back and bite you?
Ummm no,, just no. Dan came on here to try to put out a 20-story building fire with a gardenhose....and he failed in doing it badly at that...its why he also left the "building" forum room so fast.
After the backlash of the IOR Dil, then the fix..they in their great wisdom decide to take another whack at the foundry missions to nerf another reward? Seriously, that shows a great disregard for your playerbase..
And btw? i'm calm about all this actually...you see, our small fleet KNEW we would get nerf batted by Cryptic sooner or later if we tried hard to upgrade our SB and Embassy...so we just continued to play the game how WE wanted...Doffing....missions. Stf's. etc
To me? All this proves is ya just can't these guys at all..and that means you Stahl.
We know the CDF will buy their new Andorian shinnies, whose chrome will blind them to the fact that there isn't anything new in the game to do with these new ships, but whatever you convictions are, you must stick to them.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Great minds think alike
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I remember those days... but in Dan's defense, with game going free to play it had to change the dynamic to some degree to incorporate grind for those who want to achieve zen from not paying. I still don't think this is the right balance for all though since this game is a hybrid of subscribers and F2P.
It almost seems like they were shooting for an EVE type of setup and maybe if everyone had to subscribe or earn enough in game credits to play free might have been an interesting twist on this game. I probably wouldn't subscribe today because the sub offer isn't compelling anymore.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
They added FM to IOR.
- My reaction? Why are you adding FM to this? But, okay, this benefits me.
They reduced IOR to a 30 minute cooldown, 1 mission instead of 3.
- My reaction? Why didn't you reduce the number of FM when you made it repeatable? But, okay, this benefits me.
They remove IOR.
- My reaction? What the heck? I was starting to see the sense in including it. Even solo Foundry play IS a social activity. It WAS time gated. I could have seen reducing it but the difference between even 1 FM and 0 is so vast that I think you guys earned all the rage you'll get over this.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
LOL, too good to ignore
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Why, thank you. I'm rather fond of my TTSN. For the record, I don't blame (only) him for the demise of Enterprise. If Enterprise could survive its really bad first season, surely it could survive something as silly as time travelling space TRIBBLE.
Personally I do hope Brandon does read each of these posts. I'd hope Dan, Al and every lead designer in cryptic takes the time as well. This feedback is 10x better than your metrics. This is peoples reactions to them.
Do you listen?
I almost feel disapointed for getting an LTS when I pre-ordered, especially when seeing how the game is now. Heck, the only difference between me and a free player is the monthly stipend, of which I have 6000+ zen (haven't played in a while prior to last November) and nothing really to spend it on. I wanted to get the Vesta for my new Science toon but this patch about killed my enthusiasm for the game. I only log on the help fleetmates by making and contributing dilithium and fleet marks.
Until something is done, that Zen won't be going into the pot, nor will part of my tax return be spent on zen.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Keep up the fight my friends.
I know right before season 7 came out during that last LTS sale I bought a second one for a family member... if I could turn back time it certainly wouldn't have happened. I too have boatloads of zen and I have gotten my monies worth from the beginning on my first one but certainly not my second one. I don't even have anything to spend the zen on... I like the Vesta and the new Andorian ship bundles look good but so what if there isn't a mission I want to play it with, so I wait. I've been playing the M.E. Trilogy right now as something to be more entertaining and await the new trek game or changes to this one.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
There was a time when you guys spent your time working on content, telling stories, and generally trying to add Star Trek things to your Star Trek game.
These days you spend your time monitoring how many pellets hamsters get for running on your wheel.
You have my sympathy in that, as that must be extremely boring and completely not what you signed up for when you came back from Zynga.
Reaction of minority of player base vs. metrics of all of player base
Which do you think will be more accurate?
(that said, maybe their all of player base metrics agrees with you...or not)
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
for every 1 customer that complains, there are at least 5 more who agree but who won't speak up. Same goes for the happy.
Either way. Metrics do not gauge customer interaction with others, or how my decisions to not play and play other games have lead to several more doing the same.
How do you know we are actually the minority?
And we can't really prove, nor disprove, their so called metrics sense apparently it is a matter of national security they don't get released for playerbase/peer review. Heck, even SWTOR has third party websites that track server population (or at least they did the last time I played).
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Metrics? All depends on the statistical analysis methods used.
Obvious troll is obvious Hey look a highlighted elephant!