I should also make it clear to Cryptic that as a result of this PR debacle and other poor editing/bug-fixing decisions by Cryptic/PWE, I am no longer putting my money into this game, and believe me--your records will show I did put a lot in, even though I am (and will remain) F2P.
If you want me to start paying again, get some QA staff and testing procedures that actually a) catch the bugs and b) do not rush ahead even when bugs--and major issues like this one--are in CLEAR evidence. I will only pay when I am assured of a quality product. That assurance has fallen steadily.
And it's a shame. There IS a good community here--I love my fleet, I enjoy the people I write with on the forums, and heck...I like Branflakes too, for making this forum (generally) a good experience for me and an improvement on another place where I had previously done a lot of my Star Trek-related chatting. I know I won't be treated badly on these forums and that if something happens, someone will actually care. I know the mods here actually do something to maintain a good environment in the creative parts of the forum (Foundry, authors' stuff in Ten Forward, etc.). To me that community is an extension of the game.
And that means the potential IS there, somewhere. Just not in the behavior of the dev team and that is a serious problem.
Give me something I can feel confident about supporting, and believe me, I WILL do my share to help keep this game alive. But until then...I'm sorry...I'll play, but I won't pay.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I should also make it clear to Cryptic that as a result of this PR debacle and other poor editing/bug-fixing decisions by Cryptic/PWE, I am no longer putting my money into this game, and believe me--your records will show I did put a lot in, even though I am (and will remain) F2P.
Same here mr.
If you want me to start paying again, get some QA staff and testing procedures that actually a) catch the bugs and b) do not rush ahead even when bugs--and major issues like this one--are in CLEAR evidence. I will only pay when I am assured of a quality product. That assurance has fallen steadily.
Again, we are one and the same in opinions so far.
And it's a shame. There IS a good community here--I love my fleet, I enjoy the people I write with on the forums, and heck...I like Branflakes too, for making this forum (generally) a good experience for me and an improvement on another place where I had previously done a lot of my Star Trek-related chatting.
You're still thinking the way I do.
Give me something I can feel confident about supporting, and believe me, I WILL do my share to help keep this game alive. But until then...I'm sorry...I'll play, but I won't pay.
THIS! Sir, are we twins who were separated at birth?
'ZAM: In an interview you mentioned that your favorite part of STO is the "ability to level up, customize and play as both a Starship in space and a Captain on away missions." Does this mean the community can expect more aggressive PvE development in the future?
Stahl: My comment was more in line with the fact that Star Trek content can span a wide variety of gameplay elements. On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant running missions in a variety of environments instead of being stuck grinding rabbits in the slums until you level and move on to somewhere "new."'
'ZAM: In an interview you mentioned that your favorite part of STO is the "ability to level up, customize and play as both a Starship in space and a Captain on away missions." Does this mean the community can expect more aggressive PvE development in the future?
Stahl: My comment was more in line with the fact that Star Trek content can span a wide variety of gameplay elements. On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant running missions in a variety of environments instead of being stuck grinding rabbits in the slums until you level and move on to somewhere "new."'
I'm so sorry that spirit has gone from game.
The part about grinding rabbits just became my new sig.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I think the reason there is so much "fecal matter hitting the oscillation".
Is not because this was a bad description (It was). But more because of the way it was managed.
We made a similar mistake in our Fleet a while ago, where the command made a change we had been talking about for a while, but with no consultation from the members of the fleet.
The backlash was instant and surprising.
We made this mistake once, we fixed our errors by diverting or resources into fixing what needed to be fixed before making more changes. This help people calm down. (Lucky we didn't lose anyone over it.)
Now whenever we make changes we broadcast it a few weeks before hand, we allow the feedback to accumulate, then we adjust the changes based on it and then re-edit our changes... get more feedback until we have met a medium. Then we release out changes.
Its called a market study in practice. Hell we are not even a business and we do it.
If cryptic had told us about these changes a while before they released them, then gathered feedback and then adjusted accordingly, not only would people have been happier but this thread could be full of 190+ pages of praise not dissatisfaction.
I think the reason there is so much "fecal matter hitting the oscillation".
Is not because this was a bad description (It was). But more because of the way it was managed.
We made a similar mistake in our Fleet a while ago, where the command made a change we had been talking about for a while, but with no consultation from the members of the fleet.
The backlash was instant and surprising.
We made this mistake once, we fixed our errors by diverting or resources into fixing what needed to be fixed before making more changes. This help people calm down. (Lucky we didn't lose anyone over it.)
Now whenever we make changes we broadcast it a few weeks before hand, we allow the feedback to accumulate, then we adjust the changes based on it and then re-edit our changes... get more feedback until we have met a medium. Then we release out changes.
Its called a market study in practice. Hell we are not even a business and we do it.
Well, if a fleet can manage to do that within the constraints of this game, surely cryptic can do so as well? They MAKE the game after all. Or do they? [/tinfoilhat]
If cryptic had told us about these changes a while before they released them, then gathered feedback and then adjusted accordingly, not only would people have been happier but this thread could be full of 190+ pages of praise not dissatisfaction.
And a few less funny signatures!
But in all seriousness; the thing is, this is not just about this one goof, this is the eruption of who knows how many goofs, bad calls and utterly dumb things made by the powers that be. Worst of all? Often, when members of this awesome community have said to them "Hey, this is bad, this is why, this is how it would work better and this is why it would work better" they have either blanked us or gone "yeah, sure thank" while going the other way.
I don't know about you, but I don't think we like that.
What's worse? It's actually one of the best ways to get romulan marks.
I'd rather deal with the tractor beam/heavy plasma torp spaming Romulan ships over and over again than play tag the bunny. It slowed my progression to tier 2 (I will go no further now because I tire of the grind) but damnit, my Admiral wasn't going to demean herself by chasing the easter bunny.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Stahl:On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant running missions in a variety of environments instead of being stuck grinding rabbits in the slums until you level and move on to somewhere "new."' Dan Stahl 8/3/2010
Thanks, now I have to clean the beer off of my screen.
This is why F2P kills many good games.... The model of opening the business to "try before you buy" meets a hurdle of a company in question no longer to accurately track the number of people playing solely on subscriptions, therefore the idea
"hurt them with your wallet"
really can't stand alone. In EVE Online(a subscription based space MMO) when this happened people had a rally point to show their disapproval...
EVE is not an instanced game each sector of space is the same(imagine warping in to ESD and EVERY player on EDS were on the same instance, chaos, right?).
So in this the Players of EVE gathered in droves at ALL HOURS for DAYS in a place called Jita and began firing on the monuments that were "invincible" to protest recent decisions of the management that would have wound up making EVE both a scrip game abut on top of that a PM2W(Pay More to Win) through their micro-transaction clothing store.
In the days of the riots and the weeks thereafter thousands of people began canceling their subscriptions in protest too. CCP scrambled to undo the plans they had made and ultimately leading to the further involvement of the players in what the staff of CCP did to the game....
Sadly... most MMOs have no "Jita" in which to riot. many are free and have no ability to fire openly on "invincible targets." and because they are free to play... people falling off the map left and right seems more like personally leaving than an all subscription game, in which mass falling off mean YOU are the problem, not the people.
With no area designed for protest.... with no real area to address grievance. The staff of any MMO that's F2P can simply brush off both the whiners and legitimate critics as being a "minority." Even if the whining and criticism is over the same issue. It turns a game cold to those who've invested in it and it turns the new comers into paranoids after hearing "stories" of how your company screwed over it's most loyal customers...
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Dyzzy:On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant doing your best to farm Dilithum, EC, Omega and Romulan Marks and Expertise for the rep system, wishing... just wishing... you were stuck grinding rabbits in the slums...
The initial post was on a Thursday. Stahl posted a second time later that day. Brandon posted letting us know feedback was continuously being collected on a weekend, Saturday IIRC. Today is Monday; the people capable of making decisions just got back to work today and doubtless have a massive pile of feedback, both intelligent and otherwise, to look through.
Tuesday. Tomorrow. If we don't get a reply by the end of the day Tuesday, then whine about being ignored. Believe it or not, it takes time to consider responses and possible solutions.
True, but instead of them taking time to "craft" a response now, would it not have been time better spent to actually listen to the feedback they got from the testers and delayed/fixed the code before it became the...
"St. Valentine's Day Massacre Patch"?
Answer is yes! It would have been time well spent indeed...
Now they have a massive player/customer base very upset and ready to leave the "farm" for something that is fun again!
I read a few posts back that Dan actually worked on farmville... Now that explains a lot!
The initial post was on a Thursday. Stahl posted a second time later that day. Brandon posted letting us know feedback was continuously being collected on a weekend, Saturday IIRC. Today is Monday; the people capable of making decisions just got back to work today and doubtless have a massive pile of feedback, both intelligent and otherwise, to look through.
Tuesday. Tomorrow. If we don't get a reply by the end of the day Tuesday, then whine about being ignored. Believe it or not, it takes time to consider responses and possible solutions.
Actually, today was a holiday in the US; many businesses were closed, although many others were not. As I don't work for Cryptic or PWE, I honestly don't know if they were in the office today or not; I interact with the community team, and those guys work 365.24 days a year.
And for those unaware, they're in Pacific time, which is UTC minus 8 hours, if this helps you figure out where they are in the work day.
96+ hours not logging into game. Ill be here bright an early 8 am pst Tuesday for a nice big "Howdy do" to PWE. I'm curious if we will hit 300 pages before any official repsonse is given to this fiasco.
...and I don't think they come in the office that early, so you can get lots more "why is there no response from Dan?" posts in while Dan's still not back at work from the weekend.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Stahl:On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant running missions in a variety of environments instead of being stuck grinding rabbits in the slums until you level and move on to somewhere "new."' Dan Stahl 8/3/2010
Thanks, now I have to clean the beer off of my screen.
Seriously! They pop this into Tribble last minute and get fairly predictive feedback. This whole thing is so underhanded and poorly done. Last minute, three day weekend...
Cryptic (public voice): We value our player's feedback. Keep the great suggestions coming!
Cryptic (inside voice): F ... 'em.
As has been mentioned earlier, the next stage of this pathetic act will be some half measure where a fraction of what has been taken away will be returned... and for that, we will be expected to be sooooo grateful. BS.
Stop taking away choices in this game. Your lack of content already does that well enough.
So another day where I've not played 1 single second, stick that in your metrics and smoke it.
Also the Stahl quote about Star Trek Online NOT being about players being stuck grinding for TRIBBLE to put in pots is hilarious and sad at the same time.
As has been mentioned earlier, the next stage of this pathetic act will be some half measure where a fraction of what has been taken away will be returned... and for that, we will be expected to be sooooo grateful.
Unfortunately we all feel this will be the 'solution' they come up with. Fortunately its been stated there are still plenty of us that feel it will just be another half measure and we'll continue to boycott. Unfortunately again I feel there will plenty of people who will swallow this bitter pill as 'reality' and keep blindly trudging along.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
Star Trek Online has won the "Best Free MMORPG 2012" award from MMORPG Center! Thank you to everyone who voted and for your continued support of STO. We can't wait for you to see what we have planned for 2013!
Thank you to all the fans that have made Star Trek Online such a great place to enjoy the universe of Star Trek over the past three years, and we?re looking forward to many more years of exploring where no one has gone before. Happy anniversary and we?ll see you in-game!
i believe you are thankful to player community.
i don't think these are only words.
the feelings behind these sayings are honestly.
please show us your diplomacy and bring back peace and balance again to the game!
Comments
If you want me to start paying again, get some QA staff and testing procedures that actually a) catch the bugs and b) do not rush ahead even when bugs--and major issues like this one--are in CLEAR evidence. I will only pay when I am assured of a quality product. That assurance has fallen steadily.
And it's a shame. There IS a good community here--I love my fleet, I enjoy the people I write with on the forums, and heck...I like Branflakes too, for making this forum (generally) a good experience for me and an improvement on another place where I had previously done a lot of my Star Trek-related chatting. I know I won't be treated badly on these forums and that if something happens, someone will actually care. I know the mods here actually do something to maintain a good environment in the creative parts of the forum (Foundry, authors' stuff in Ten Forward, etc.). To me that community is an extension of the game.
And that means the potential IS there, somewhere. Just not in the behavior of the dev team and that is a serious problem.
Give me something I can feel confident about supporting, and believe me, I WILL do my share to help keep this game alive. But until then...I'm sorry...I'll play, but I won't pay.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
if you dont want us to farm dili and marks in foundry, why not give us EMH Mark1 to farm it for us.
having stop playing STO and enjoying other game have put my high blood pressure down. this is a good thing.
See, I can use metrics as well. My metrics tell me I'm not happy, My metrics tell me I'm not alone. My metrics tell me I'm not spending money here.
and in case captain obvious see's this, go right ahead and use it as a siggy!
Same here mr.
Again, we are one and the same in opinions so far.
You're still thinking the way I do.
THIS! Sir, are we twins who were separated at birth?
We are so sorry that spirit has gone from game!
Shame on you Stahl!
Done! Thank you
Made a few formatting changes to it, but it's still word for word what you said.
EMH Mark I mining dilithium? It's canon!
STO Resources: <Ship Comparison - All Tiers + Small Craft + Hangar Pets> <Damage Resistance>
<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
<Keybind Tour the Galaxy> <Fleet / Armada Management> <Currency Exchange> <Other STO Links>
The part about grinding rabbits just became my new sig.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Is not because this was a bad description (It was). But more because of the way it was managed.
We made a similar mistake in our Fleet a while ago, where the command made a change we had been talking about for a while, but with no consultation from the members of the fleet.
The backlash was instant and surprising.
We made this mistake once, we fixed our errors by diverting or resources into fixing what needed to be fixed before making more changes. This help people calm down. (Lucky we didn't lose anyone over it.)
Now whenever we make changes we broadcast it a few weeks before hand, we allow the feedback to accumulate, then we adjust the changes based on it and then re-edit our changes... get more feedback until we have met a medium. Then we release out changes.
Its called a market study in practice. Hell we are not even a business and we do it.
If cryptic had told us about these changes a while before they released them, then gathered feedback and then adjusted accordingly, not only would people have been happier but this thread could be full of 190+ pages of praise not dissatisfaction.
Well, if a fleet can manage to do that within the constraints of this game, surely cryptic can do so as well? They MAKE the game after all. Or do they? [/tinfoilhat]
And a few less funny signatures!
But in all seriousness; the thing is, this is not just about this one goof, this is the eruption of who knows how many goofs, bad calls and utterly dumb things made by the powers that be. Worst of all? Often, when members of this awesome community have said to them "Hey, this is bad, this is why, this is how it would work better and this is why it would work better" they have either blanked us or gone "yeah, sure thank" while going the other way.
I don't know about you, but I don't think we like that.
The irony of that statement...
And just when I thought the universe didn't have a sense of humor.
What's worse? It's actually one of the best ways to get romulan marks.
I'd rather deal with the tractor beam/heavy plasma torp spaming Romulan ships over and over again than play tag the bunny. It slowed my progression to tier 2 (I will go no further now because I tire of the grind) but damnit, my Admiral wasn't going to demean herself by chasing the easter bunny.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Thanks, now I have to clean the beer off of my screen.
"hurt them with your wallet"
really can't stand alone. In EVE Online(a subscription based space MMO) when this happened people had a rally point to show their disapproval...
EVE is not an instanced game each sector of space is the same(imagine warping in to ESD and EVERY player on EDS were on the same instance, chaos, right?).
So in this the Players of EVE gathered in droves at ALL HOURS for DAYS in a place called Jita and began firing on the monuments that were "invincible" to protest recent decisions of the management that would have wound up making EVE both a scrip game abut on top of that a PM2W(Pay More to Win) through their micro-transaction clothing store.
In the days of the riots and the weeks thereafter thousands of people began canceling their subscriptions in protest too. CCP scrambled to undo the plans they had made and ultimately leading to the further involvement of the players in what the staff of CCP did to the game....
Sadly... most MMOs have no "Jita" in which to riot. many are free and have no ability to fire openly on "invincible targets." and because they are free to play... people falling off the map left and right seems more like personally leaving than an all subscription game, in which mass falling off mean YOU are the problem, not the people.
With no area designed for protest.... with no real area to address grievance. The staff of any MMO that's F2P can simply brush off both the whiners and legitimate critics as being a "minority." Even if the whining and criticism is over the same issue. It turns a game cold to those who've invested in it and it turns the new comers into paranoids after hearing "stories" of how your company screwed over it's most loyal customers...
Dyzzy:On any given day you can find yourself all over the quadrant doing your best to farm Dilithum, EC, Omega and Romulan Marks and Expertise for the rep system, wishing... just wishing... you were stuck grinding rabbits in the slums...
True, but instead of them taking time to "craft" a response now, would it not have been time better spent to actually listen to the feedback they got from the testers and delayed/fixed the code before it became the...
"St. Valentine's Day Massacre Patch"?
Answer is yes! It would have been time well spent indeed...
Now they have a massive player/customer base very upset and ready to leave the "farm" for something that is fun again!
I read a few posts back that Dan actually worked on farmville... Now that explains a lot!
PWE/Cryptic STOP the FARM, Bring back the FUN!
Zeus
They're mildly altered Targ models. :rolleyes:
Actually, today was a holiday in the US; many businesses were closed, although many others were not. As I don't work for Cryptic or PWE, I honestly don't know if they were in the office today or not; I interact with the community team, and those guys work 365.24 days a year.
And for those unaware, they're in Pacific time, which is UTC minus 8 hours, if this helps you figure out where they are in the work day.
...and I don't think they come in the office that early, so you can get lots more "why is there no response from Dan?" posts in while Dan's still not back at work from the weekend.
LOLOLOLOL man that was funny, but sadly true
Seriously! They pop this into Tribble last minute and get fairly predictive feedback. This whole thing is so underhanded and poorly done. Last minute, three day weekend...
Cryptic (public voice): We value our player's feedback. Keep the great suggestions coming!
Cryptic (inside voice): F ... 'em.
As has been mentioned earlier, the next stage of this pathetic act will be some half measure where a fraction of what has been taken away will be returned... and for that, we will be expected to be sooooo grateful. BS.
Stop taking away choices in this game. Your lack of content already does that well enough.
'
'Finda's want horse with that meal!'.
Ahh don't bother well come in after the holidays!
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
Also the Stahl quote about Star Trek Online NOT being about players being stuck grinding for TRIBBLE to put in pots is hilarious and sad at the same time.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
You'd think, as an American, I'd know that. This is twice today I've completely forgotten, though.
:eek:
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Unfortunately we all feel this will be the 'solution' they come up with. Fortunately its been stated there are still plenty of us that feel it will just be another half measure and we'll continue to boycott. Unfortunately again I feel there will plenty of people who will swallow this bitter pill as 'reality' and keep blindly trudging along.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
i believe you are thankful to player community.
i don't think these are only words.
the feelings behind these sayings are honestly.
please show us your diplomacy and bring back peace and balance again to the game!
we are quite unhappy with the last change
well not a lot of places have the day off not even government facilities as i still had to go to work at a public school.
so it's kind of forgiven.
Bullseye! :mad: