The continued dissatisfaction of it being equally useless as the previous 1999.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.
Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:
Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)
The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)
The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.
At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.
Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.
Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions
These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.
Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:
Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)
The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)
The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.
At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.
Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.
Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions
These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
Nice proposal and more interesting to read than Stahl's statement of the teams lack of creativity or thought with their Option A / Option B failed paradigm.:o
The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost.
No. Anything that takes away from progress already made, is Not acceptable. If you've earned it, you keep it, NO exceptions.
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.
Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:
Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)
The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)
The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.
At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.
Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.
Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions
These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
This is the smartest idea that came about fleet scaling;
Tho i might disagree with some points it is something that should be doable.
Now 2 things
_ Obivously and unfortunatly players can't make suggestions about the game devs want us to play regardless of the cost in 'fun' marks to the player, since it seems we are not listened to ; AKA Tribble server feedbacks get the finger.
_ How sad it is you/we have to give suggestions out and do the job in place of cryptic game designers team; That seemed unable to come with a solution as good as you just gave; Making it it option A or B whatsoever not possible to dig more into the concept...
Bring back the FUN;
and what Gravitar said it all bout the FUN and Grind on page 139 again :
Let's be honest, this is about far more then just the IOR. Tensions have been high since about halfway S6 when it became clear that bugs weren't getting fixed, requirements wouldn't be lowered etc. What we see here is what happens when you have a community that's on edge. The smallest additional affront just make thing's boil over. Or maybe a flash over would be a better analogy. This is just like when they took out the STF rewards. By this change they didn't just take away an easy source of fleetmarks, they effectively force us to get them elsewhere. In other words, we are being forced to do things we don't want to do and they take longer then the IOR did too. Our fun just got diminished, and because it takes longer we have less time for things we *do* enjoy. Look at the STF rewards, things stayed unruly untill the item drops where restored. Simply because getting an item, or having the chance to get one, is fun . I never understood why the reputation system had to replace the old system. Those unlucky few who didn't get their tech drops would have had the guarantee of being able to get them, and the rest of us could enjoy looking forward to the lootbag at the end. The dev's keep thinking all we care about is dilithium and fleetmarks, etc. but we don't. If they ever introduce new drop-only gear that can be collected by doing missions with an STF structure, I would play them all day long regardless of them rewarding marks of any kind or dilithium. There no longer are real achievements in this game, it's all about endurance and perseverence now. It isn't rewarding to play this game anymore. All the stuff is either buyable for zen/dilithium, or EC(which effectively is also buyable by zen or dilithium). Sure, you need some marks, running some elites will get you those quick enough. Or I guess grinding down eppohs if you need RM's.
This game as it stands now, has become a grindfest. Now, that in itself isn't that big of a deal. The problem is that a lot of us are not mmo fans or whatever, we are here because of Star Trek. That means that this game has incredible potential, with loyal fans. However, it also means they can't treat us like mmo fans who like to grind all day. Most of us love the IP to much to just walk away, so we will put up with it for a while....But sooner or later, we will reach a breaking point, where even the most loyal Star Trek fan refuses to put up with this any longer. That would mean the end of this game, because aside from the IP this game has nothing to offer. There are several mmo's out there, that from a gameplay perspective are far better developed, there are several that are more fun, etc.
Basicly they have the goose laying golden egg's here, only they keep pushing the goose for more egg's. Hell, they are close to taking a chokehold on the goose and shake it for more golden egg's. At the short term that might work, and the goose will lay some additional golden egg's, but then it will die. Keeping the goose happy and entertained might produce a few daily egg's less, but the goose will lay those egg's for years and years to come.
Stop trying to force the community to spend money, if you present us with enjoyable content, gameplay, bugfixes, fun items, etc. we will gladly give it to you!!!
No. Anything that takes away from progress already made, is Not acceptable. If you've earned it, you keep it, NO exceptions.
If you don't want to lose it, then you don't upgrade. Or you start off with your fleet at Very Large. If you want the lower scaling costs, then you accept that you might lose progress if you ever decide to upgrade fleet size, but it's always your choice.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
There have been many suggestions regarding sliding scale costs for fleets. Some good, some bad. The problem is regardless of how well thought out the ideas we have are, the likelihood of PWE/Cryptic actually implementing them is close to nil. They WANT to control us. They WANT to make it difficult for small fleets to achieve success. They KNOW the majority of players are in small fleets. Butts in seats. I have been saying this since they nerfed dilithium back with the introduction of S7.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
There have been many suggestions regarding sliding scale costs for fleets. Some good, some bad. The problem is regardless of how well thought out the ideas we have are, the likelihood of PWE/Cryptic actually implementing them is close to nil. They WANT to control us. They WANT to make it difficult for small fleets to achieve success. They KNOW the majority of players are in small fleets. Butts in seats. I have been saying this since they nerfed dilithium back with the introduction of S7.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I posted my plan not because I thought there was any chance that Cryptic would implement it, but just to demonstrate that it's not that hard to make a system that would be difficult to exploit.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I can't speak for anyone else, but I posted my plan not because I thought there was any chance that Cryptic would implement it, but just to demonstrate that it's not that hard to make a system that would be difficult to exploit.
Unfortunately, there would be a workaround on this one. Larger fleet Commanders would simply cut loose their non productive or less productive members in favor of cheaper projects. If given the opportunity; I fear a good portion would bite at the chance. If you have a 100 man fleet,but only 20 contribute the majority, it would be in their best interest to let the others go,and allow the highly productive members to work a little less to get way more.
But I concede your point,there are certainly more than the two options Dan gave us. PWE just doesn't want you to think there may be more options available.
I do believe that the devs are capable of providing good content and fixing the bugs in the game.
But I don't think they are allowed to spend time doing it by the "overlords" in charge of the game.
If the "overlords" would just take a little time from their "vision" of "farming" the players (aka customers) for every single penny of money we have and address the real problems of the game, they would reap an amazimg amount of long term profit from a STABLE and ENJOYABLE game platform for years!
We, the players (aka customers) are here because we love Star Trek!
We don't love FARMING or bad/no content, or a game that feels like another JOB!
Another thing that could be useful--and I suspect it would appeal to PWE's chance-based models (demonstrated by their preferences for lock boxes and such things)--what about increasing the amount you can crit for in the Commendation Reports assignments? It would have to be pretty significant--from 100 (where it currently is) to perhaps, say, 150 (that is, 2x the standard reward of 75).
There would still need to be other changes made, I think, especially since from what I've gathered, the majority of Level 50's haven't pushed their DOFFs as far as I have on my main and achieved the maximum tier in all categories. However, I think that it would be a useful improvement, especially since you can do your DOFF assignments while you have fun on other aspects of the game.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
i think they just need to raise the amount of fleet marks you get in the fleet actions to 70 when the rep isnt on and 100 for them when it is on.
This is so beyond just FMs now. Honestly, I think you are finally seeing months of pent up frustration hitting the breaking point. Even if PW decided to reinstate FMs into foundry missions,or they added more to the events, I would have to respond with "Sorry,not good enough anymore." And I feel that there would be quite a few players standing side by side with me on that.
We are not the contents of our wallets. Our voices will be heard, or our silence will be deafening.
Actually, today was a holiday in the US; many businesses were closed, although many others were not. As I don't work for Cryptic or PWE, I honestly don't know if they were in the office today or not; I interact with the community team, and those guys work 365.24 days a year.
And for those unaware, they're in Pacific time, which is UTC minus 8 hours, if this helps you figure out where they are in the work day.
...and I don't think they come in the office that early, so you can get lots more "why is there no response from Dan?" posts in while Dan's still not back at work from the weekend.
What gets me, is the fact that Mr Stahl has posted in a few other forum topics, just a few hours ago, but left this topic to be ignored. I suppose 2000+ posts and 200 pages isn't enough to get his attention.
Devs - "Mr Stahl, we need to address these issues, the forums are getting out of hand and quite frankly I think we are doing something wrong to the Star Trek intellectual property"
Stahl - *Gives the Dev a stern look and begins to do the Harlem Shuffle*
Tuesday morn here in the uk and still nothing from the devs, I know the time difference but I would have thought that they could at least post from home, just something to acknowledge this thread and our dismay.......
Still say just revert the changes made in the Valantine Day Massacre Patch to the fleet marks, but as stated earlier its become more now.
This could have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier, know I fear whatever the devs do the damage done to the community trust and the STO name can't be repaired.
Where ever you go, there you are.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.
Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:
Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)
The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)
The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.
At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.
Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.
Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions
These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
As someone else who proposed a scaling fleet system, I support this. I thought of the provision amount reductions yesterday but didn't feel like posting.
Couple points:
- When (if) implemented, fleet leader makes a one time size call with no penalties. Afterwards follows the system as outlined, otherwise penalizes fleets that were always small.
- Resource costs on a per person basis should favour larger fleets (more hands, less work), so your percentages may need to be adjusted.
Another idea I had for a scaled system:
Only Fleet marks earned while a member of the fleet would be contributable to that fleets' projects.
This should stop fleet mark "purchasing". All other inputs are "exploitable".
Tuesday morn here in the uk and still nothing from the devs, I know the time difference but I would have thought that they could at least post from home, just something to acknowledge this thread and our dismay.......
Still say just revert the changes made in the Valantine Day Massacre Patch to the fleet marks, but as stated earlier its become more now.
This could have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier, know I fear whatever the devs do the damage done to the community trust and the STO name can't be repaired.
Well, give time to time
I'm not in the US zonetime but i guess its night-time there and, unless Cryptic are zombies and go to work in the middle of the night you'll have to wait at least till tomorow morning workable USA hours to get a first answer.
As I guess the Dev team would have first to brainstorm before posting anything related to a matter of this amplitude.
This thread is somewhat a lot different to deal with than from asking funny videos to fleets, and really here I'd like to get a constructive anwser from an entire team than a man alone without backup.
Now don't get me wrong here; you may track my posts through this thread and see how much I'm concerned bout the endless grind, the no fun way the game has become for small fleeters, and the ridiculous amount of reward we feel having for the immensly requiring projects.
I'm really this close to quit the game and am sick that I had gone for a LTS seeing the way things are now.
Tho don't get me wrong, but give that to the man and the team to have a chance of doing their job.
There is no way they haven't stated about this thread yet, even on a personal matter if so.
And I'm sure they 'll come with at least a first anwser to the matter by tomorow AKA noon Europe time.
And I +10000 the idea of a scaling system , as some really good suggestions has now come out. See post above.
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.
Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:
Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)
The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)
The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.
At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.
Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.
Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions
These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
I support the above. With one addition:
Make Fleet Membership ACCOUNT WIDE. If I join x Fleet with one of my characters, ALL my characters under the same @handle should be a member of that fleet. That way, you don't end up having a Fleet of 50 main characters, and 450 alts.
The way "Guild Membership" works in for example Guild Wars 2, is that you are constantly a member of every guild you join, and you can join as many guilds as you want. From there, you "champion" a specific guild, which means you are representing that guild with their name/tag, as well as having access to their guild perks. I realize a similar method may be difficult to implement into "Star Trek Grind Online" in terms of Fleet Starbases.
Comments
The continued dissatisfaction of it being equally useless as the previous 1999.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
you sir have the winning post of the day!!:P:eek:
Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:
Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)
The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)
The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.
At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.
Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.
Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions
These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
You get three cookies and 600 FM. Oh too soon?
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
Nice proposal and more interesting to read than Stahl's statement of the teams lack of creativity or thought with their Option A / Option B failed paradigm.:o
#2311#2700#2316#2500
And that means the forums are "working as intended."
No. Anything that takes away from progress already made, is Not acceptable. If you've earned it, you keep it, NO exceptions.
This is the smartest idea that came about fleet scaling;
Tho i might disagree with some points it is something that should be doable.
Now 2 things
_ Obivously and unfortunatly players can't make suggestions about the game devs want us to play regardless of the cost in 'fun' marks to the player, since it seems we are not listened to ; AKA Tribble server feedbacks get the finger.
_ How sad it is you/we have to give suggestions out and do the job in place of cryptic game designers team; That seemed unable to come with a solution as good as you just gave; Making it it option A or B whatsoever not possible to dig more into the concept...
Bring back the FUN;
and what Gravitar said it all bout the FUN and Grind on page 139 again :
Bring back the FUN; We want less GRINDFEST.
If you don't want to lose it, then you don't upgrade. Or you start off with your fleet at Very Large. If you want the lower scaling costs, then you accept that you might lose progress if you ever decide to upgrade fleet size, but it's always your choice.
Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
I can't speak for anyone else, but I posted my plan not because I thought there was any chance that Cryptic would implement it, but just to demonstrate that it's not that hard to make a system that would be difficult to exploit.
Unfortunately, there would be a workaround on this one. Larger fleet Commanders would simply cut loose their non productive or less productive members in favor of cheaper projects. If given the opportunity; I fear a good portion would bite at the chance. If you have a 100 man fleet,but only 20 contribute the majority, it would be in their best interest to let the others go,and allow the highly productive members to work a little less to get way more.
But I concede your point,there are certainly more than the two options Dan gave us. PWE just doesn't want you to think there may be more options available.
But I don't think they are allowed to spend time doing it by the "overlords" in charge of the game.
If the "overlords" would just take a little time from their "vision" of "farming" the players (aka customers) for every single penny of money we have and address the real problems of the game, they would reap an amazimg amount of long term profit from a STABLE and ENJOYABLE game platform for years!
We, the players (aka customers) are here because we love Star Trek!
We don't love FARMING or bad/no content, or a game that feels like another JOB!
PWE/Cryptic Stop the FARM, Bring back the FUN!
Zeus
Hopefully something constructive will come out of Cryptic today.
that would work XD
There would still need to be other changes made, I think, especially since from what I've gathered, the majority of Level 50's haven't pushed their DOFFs as far as I have on my main and achieved the maximum tier in all categories. However, I think that it would be a useful improvement, especially since you can do your DOFF assignments while you have fun on other aspects of the game.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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This is so beyond just FMs now. Honestly, I think you are finally seeing months of pent up frustration hitting the breaking point. Even if PW decided to reinstate FMs into foundry missions,or they added more to the events, I would have to respond with "Sorry,not good enough anymore." And I feel that there would be quite a few players standing side by side with me on that.
We are not the contents of our wallets. Our voices will be heard, or our silence will be deafening.
Am I the only one? :rolleyes:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=558451&highlight=content
about 30 minutes ago.
I guess you should at least give him time to read this thread
Watch out for my Starship Comparator app at
http://ssc.levega.de or http://www.stoshipcompare.tk
Devs - "Mr Stahl, we need to address these issues, the forums are getting out of hand and quite frankly I think we are doing something wrong to the Star Trek intellectual property"
Stahl - *Gives the Dev a stern look and begins to do the Harlem Shuffle*
lol, yep, just dont forget to take your union breaks ok
Still say just revert the changes made in the Valantine Day Massacre Patch to the fleet marks, but as stated earlier its become more now.
This could have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier, know I fear whatever the devs do the damage done to the community trust and the STO name can't be repaired.
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
As someone else who proposed a scaling fleet system, I support this. I thought of the provision amount reductions yesterday but didn't feel like posting.
Couple points:
- When (if) implemented, fleet leader makes a one time size call with no penalties. Afterwards follows the system as outlined, otherwise penalizes fleets that were always small.
- Resource costs on a per person basis should favour larger fleets (more hands, less work), so your percentages may need to be adjusted.
Another idea I had for a scaled system:
Only Fleet marks earned while a member of the fleet would be contributable to that fleets' projects.
This should stop fleet mark "purchasing". All other inputs are "exploitable".
Thanks again for your post.
Well, give time to time
I'm not in the US zonetime but i guess its night-time there and, unless Cryptic are zombies and go to work in the middle of the night you'll have to wait at least till tomorow morning workable USA hours to get a first answer.
As I guess the Dev team would have first to brainstorm before posting anything related to a matter of this amplitude.
This thread is somewhat a lot different to deal with than from asking funny videos to fleets, and really here I'd like to get a constructive anwser from an entire team than a man alone without backup.
Now don't get me wrong here; you may track my posts through this thread and see how much I'm concerned bout the endless grind, the no fun way the game has become for small fleeters, and the ridiculous amount of reward we feel having for the immensly requiring projects.
I'm really this close to quit the game and am sick that I had gone for a LTS seeing the way things are now.
Tho don't get me wrong, but give that to the man and the team to have a chance of doing their job.
There is no way they haven't stated about this thread yet, even on a personal matter if so.
And I'm sure they 'll come with at least a first anwser to the matter by tomorow AKA noon Europe time.
And I +10000 the idea of a scaling system , as some really good suggestions has now come out. See post above.
I support the above. With one addition:
Make Fleet Membership ACCOUNT WIDE. If I join x Fleet with one of my characters, ALL my characters under the same @handle should be a member of that fleet. That way, you don't end up having a Fleet of 50 main characters, and 450 alts.
The way "Guild Membership" works in for example Guild Wars 2, is that you are constantly a member of every guild you join, and you can join as many guilds as you want. From there, you "champion" a specific guild, which means you are representing that guild with their name/tag, as well as having access to their guild perks. I realize a similar method may be difficult to implement into "Star Trek Grind Online" in terms of Fleet Starbases.