So yeah, I did a little reading and the explanation of the federation cloak is on the device itself. Who'd have thunk it. Turns out the Feds agreed to abide the old treaty in spite of the dissolution of the Romulan Empire, but in 2409 they went back on their word and began developing cloaked ships.
So the small number of cloaked ships can be attributed to the treaty, which perservered past Romulus blowing up, and the cloaked ships that do exist can be attributed to the treaty's very recent violation.
As for the console issue, since the console can only be used on pre-determined cloak ships I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude the 'console' itself exists only as an interface with a larger device built into the ship itself.
If you want a Fleet defiant with battle cloak then you're going to have to sacrifice some hull and a bridge officer station to bring it closer to BoP standard. Eg. Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit has 5 BOFF stations, one more than a Fleet Hoh'Sus. It also has 8250 more hull compared to the Hoh'Sus.
no one said anything about giving the Feds battle cloak. As I posted before, only the Defiant and Galaxy X should have cloak, but I would support them as integral to the ship and NOT a console. My reason is the idea of plug and play for something like a cloaking device is ridiculous from an engeering view point. "Balance" or giving something up to get something as you put it are just odd arguments. No one HAS to give up something. This is a game. If the Devs want to give something it's up to them. Only in PvP does balance really matter.
"Depriving one side for the sake of another is never welcome." Is KDF content on par with Federation content? KDF is deprived of content, that is why we get the cooler toys. I have spent money on my KDF characters, I paid good money for unlocks and consoles. The GIVE FEDS CLOAK WAAA WAAA WAAA threads are worse than nerf escort/buff cruiser threads... the cloak topic is a plague in these forums.
i said nothing about depriving the KDF of anything. I play KDF far more than Fed and I think KDF development should be at the top of the dev priorities for at least the next 2 seasons. If you were less hung up or defensive you would understand what I am saying much more clearly. This is a game. Each of us is a customer expecting an excellent play experience. It really isn't about one faction or the other. It is never right to change the game in a way that unfairly devalues the investment of anyone else.
Some of us are fans of the series and would like to see a Star Trek game where the IP has not been taken to a viking **** party. Canon is good. Feds dont fight, they have little tea parties and hug, even in a time of war...
Here are some federation options for cloaking. Although these might not be as good a battle cloak they are still sufficient cloaking abilities
- Cloaking Device (Gal-X, Defiant-R).
- Mask Energy Signature.
- Adapted MACO 3 part ability.
- Romulan T5 Ability.
If you're still not happy with those options, play as a KDF toon or GTFO.
STO will never be canon. It never has been, never will be nor can it be.
As for your GTFO? Pffft. Whatever! I have just as much right here as you and am a paying customer. I have a valid opinion. If you don't like it I don't care. If you can't be more respectful why don't you GTFO? There's the door.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
This is all just putting into the idea of the game. As a Star Trek fan, I wouldn't give cloaking technology to any of the Federation ships because I believe Federation ships do not need it (despite the fact two ships already have it in game blue-side). Cloaking technology was primarily used in Star Trek as an tactical advantage while attacking an enemy ship (or trying to delay/escape the encounter or force the encounter under one's terms). Federation, IMHO at least, has always been about only fighting as a last resort and when driven to the defense by other factions (or defending those in need). Federation never needed to hide their ships, and do something behind the curtains - Federation was always about being noble, open, friendly, finding a solution that fits everyone. Even in a deep state of war with the Klingons, Federation would stay true to their beliefs, their military ways. I just don't see Fed getting so desperate that they'd forget what it is to be a Federation and Human in the first place. Besides, I never had a feeling Federation is loosing the war with the Klingons anyway.
I Personally play both factions, I never had a feeling either of the factions have an huge advantage over the other ship-wise. Battlecruisers are a different breed of ships compared to Federation cruisers and I find them much more enjoyable, however I find Federation escorts superior to the KDF, as well as science ships, which I honestly think there's not enough on the Klingon side.
Moreover, I do not think it's a good thing to borrow as many elements of the Klingon gameplay to the Federation as a content (even if we're talking something else and not cloaking devices), I believe this is not going to help with the number disparity (and thus content disparity) over the factions at all, more then likely just worsening the situation.
the one cloak, which wasnt specified where it went, the feds DID have was the phasing cloak...all we know is it was confiscated but it was never revealed that it had been disassembled or destroyed...therefore, if any cloak was given, would be that one
I am a Fed only player... I don't think we need any additional cloaking ability...
I play mostly KDF but in all honesty the only ship I would like to see have a battle cloak on fed side is the defiant. I was completely against it for a few years but I had noticed that was the reason I started KDF besides loving the lore from the series of the Klingon Empire. I just think if it was to get one it would only be for the defiant and that it would have to be a 2 console piece set since a console is already for the regular cloak. On the same token though I do think the raptors should have a battle cloak as well.
In the long run though since this game is DS9 heavy since theres no delta quadrant and all the enemies except the borg are either allies of the federation or live off of support it. It will one day with the constant cut and paste content that the game will eventually return both factions to allies as it once was during the dominion war and most of TNG because its the only way it will ever fit together. In the history of wars when both sides just are going all out against each other I've never heard of 2 warring factions saying uhhh guys we are dieing can you both have a cease fire and pick up rocks for us?
I cannot forget the most 2 epic abilities in each factions history the b'rel enhanced battle cloak and the ablative armor of voyager being such TRIBBLE in this game. So I get this right ablative armor lasts 10 seconds and the b'rel just can't kill anything unless it has 10x the duration chang had to severly damage the enterprise. They probally have solutions for these they just want to wait till they are dead broke and sell them off in a lockbox.
STO will never be canon. It never has been, never will be nor can it be.
As for your GTFO? Pffft. Whatever! I have just as much right here as you and am a paying customer. I have a valid opinion. If you don't like it I don't care. If you can't be more respectful why don't you GTFO? There's the door.
I am not sure if this was addressed to me or not. I already stated in an earlier post that I believe only the Defiant and Galaxy X classes should have cloak but that it should be integral to the ship not a console.
I am a Star Trek fan in most ways. There are many things I did not like about it, including the way the main antagonist, the Klingon Empire was so poorly developed in TOS.
My post you seem to be questioning is more a challenge to a poor argument. I prefer some RL logic to be incorporated into story lines to give things a sense of realism and continuity. I also want to see this game fun for ALL players, and nerf raging and changing every time a minority whines and cries OP at the expense of others is something I really do not like.
Yes it was addressed to you.
Your real life rationalization has no bearing in how the federation acts as the Hero in Star Trek. Even the creator of the IP was against the idea of the feds cloaking. His idea of humanity, even in conflict, that thry would not use such technologies.
The excerpt of ingame history from Path of 2409 honors that ideology.
Your PoV does not.
As to the "deprived" statement. The feds have not been deprived. They have 2 cloaking ships. They are as free to play the KDF as anyone else if they dislike the 2 choices they have as the hero federation
The "between the lines" dislike you seem to have for PvP and your perception how it has ruined the game in your opinion is definately out of place.
Us KDF fans who argue against the feds getting widespread dont do so because of any advantage it may give ( which is not much really) but because its something the hero feds dont use ( to the point of having many reasons as to why) and finally because it, would be just another thing taken from the KDF faction purely on fed asking for it.
Klingons are Spiritual Warriors who fight for and with Honor, they don't exist in this game.
That cloaked Defiant-R using only 8 consoles still makes them shake. All that is seen in the galaxy is the warp signatures of fleeing Klingon ships. Seems like for them, today IS a good day to die !
Game Description The Treaty of Algeron, signed in 2311 by the Romulan Star Empire and the United Federation of Planets, prohibited Federation cloaking devices. This agreement has been a source of controversy in Starfleet, where some officers believed it severely limited tactical options and put the Federation at a disadvantage.
Although the Federation initially agreed to follow the treaty after the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, in early 2409 Starfleet was authorized to develop and implement cloaking technology on selected ships.
This console allows you to cloak your ship. The cloak cannot be activated while in combat. It may be equipped on any console slot of a Dreadnought Cruiser or Tactical Escort Retrofit.
I do not own the console but this is supposedly the text that accompanies it. It states pretty clearly that the Federation has just begun to start breaking the treaty.
'Selected ships' gives them enough wiggle room to justify a hobbled cloak ability for the Federation though. This is not something that everybody is wholeheartedly behind, so it's moving slowly. That can be the reason in the fiction, anyway.
I do not own the console but this is supposedly the text that accompanies it. It states pretty clearly that the Federation has just begun to start breaking the treaty.
'Selected ships' gives them enough wiggle room to justify a hobbled cloak ability for the Federation though. This is not something that everybody is wholeheartedly behind, so it's moving slowly. That can be the reason in the fiction, anyway.
lol Good luck trying to find any logic in Cryptic's way of dealing with things.
They will write one thing in their own lore and then completely disregard it and counter it with another when it fits them.
How about declaring 'the Doctor' as a sentient being with his own rights as any living being in the lore and now using sentient A.I. that kills itself to counter it's enemies? Not quite the behavior of the Federation, the pillar of moral and ethic in the galaxy. I've noticed that cryptic will do whatever they see fit for the time being even if it means contradicting their own previous views.
However the point of the discussion was wheather the Fed. should be getting a cloak. I have a few points of why I believe they shouldn't:
-It's against canon (although I agree with the players that say the canon has gone down the drain in STO), I never use cloak on my Feds. because I'm a big ST fan and it doesn't seem right to me.
-It's against Federation principles to break treaties and their given word and I would hate it if the Federation in STO turns into an Earth-like conquering empire with disregard of everything else but their narrow minded current needs (which is unfortunately slowly happening). I understand that STO is an MMO and other rules apply, but honestly I believe that we can have the moral 'hero' faction even in an MMO without stepping on their principles and the point of their existence.
-It's game breaking - I am a firm believer that different factions/cultures should have a different view on their warfare and different branches of technology. For me the interesting part is this diversity. To each their own. Then when I go to PvP I have to use my tech. advantages to counter my opponent from the other faction. If we have the exact same it gets kinda' pointless and boring, at least for me.
-It's destroying the KDF - Feds. get KDF consoles through lockboxes. Feds get the Honor Guard through the rep. system (KDF does MACO as well). Feds have cloak on 2 starships. The Vesta, a sci-vessel can mount DHC. What we'll probably see next is Flight-deck cruisers for the Federation. I wonder what will be anyone's incentive to play the KDF, when you'll have all the KDF tech on the Fed. side and yet if you want to go KDF, you have to level up a Fed. to 25?
-Federation starships have other advantages - increased hull, better shield modifiers, better escort turn rates...what would be nice if the cloak is such a problematic issue for Fed. players is to be given tech that can improve their ways of countering/discovering it. But please, for Star Trek sake, let us not have everything the same on every faction.
What would be the point of a Romulan faction that I see many players are eagerly expecting if they get Fed. content, start at level 25 and the Feds. can get and fly all their ships and use all their tech? IMHO, we need to have more diversity, not less.
Anyone who knows canon star trek history knows the federation would never use cloaks unless its survival was threatened
All that aside why do many feds want cloaks and why do most klingons NOT want feds to have cloaks
Simple
Cloaked player engages enemy player sees weapon types ect......Evads and Cloaks changes consoles /weapons/shields to counter enemy player then boasts about how great a pvper he is
This is what is all about
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
All that aside why do many feds want cloaks and why do most klingons NOT want feds to have cloaks
Simple
Cloaked player engages enemy player sees weapon types ect......Evads and Cloaks changes consoles /weapons/shields to counter enemy player then boasts about how great a pvper he is
This is what is all about
LOL Never thought of this that way I must admit. I don't want cloak for Feds. due to lore and ST feel mostly, I have no problem with Romulan players using cloak if their faction ever comes along STO.
I play usually KDF, so what you said is kinda' new for me as I don't encounter many cloaked ships from my side. I guess that would only work on the BoP & the battlecloak since you can't engage the regular one once in combat, but LOL Changing setup during every single battle? Wow, then I guess some people really need to take a game less seriosely.
I would never imagine myself doing that.
I do not own the console but this is supposedly the text that accompanies it. It states pretty clearly that the Federation has just begun to start breaking the treaty.
'Selected ships' gives them enough wiggle room to justify a hobbled cloak ability for the Federation though. This is not something that everybody is wholeheartedly behind, so it's moving slowly. That can be the reason in the fiction, anyway.
That would be the Grandfathered clause I mentioned. The select ships are the AGT galaxy and Defiant.
This is the original rext that appeared when the AGT and Defiant first appeared.
Its not new but many years old now.
Anyone who knows canon star trek history knows the federation would never use cloaks unless its survival was threatened
All that aside why do many feds want cloaks and why do most klingons NOT want feds to have cloaks
Simple
Cloaked player engages enemy player sees weapon types ect......Evads and Cloaks changes consoles /weapons/shields to counter enemy player then boasts about how great a pvper he is
This is what is all about
Maybe thats whats irs about for those few feds playing thier KDD alts.... The majority of us KDF fans just do not wish to see another KDF faction ability given to the feds just because they want it.
The feds have thier select cloaking vessels. Thats all they need and it adheres to thier image as the cultured and paladinesque hero in the IP.
Cloaking has been a Klingon technology for a long time and it suits both our definition of honor and our actions as a conquest expanding predator mindset race and culture.
imagine everyone with battlecloak or cloak at all.. kerrat and (if) any future pvp map would feel soooo empty. i am a fed player but this would be wrong at some point. make the klingon battlecloak cooldown to 2-3 minutes and everything would be fine.
I'm a fed player, and i agree that not every ship on the fed side should get cloak, and at the most, it should be maybe one per type (escort and cruiser are covered, small craft and sci maybe, but carrier might be OP) As for the actual cloak i've stated my opinions n that numerous times but here i will stick to all cloak should be "battle cloak" for both sides from the first available cloaking device. I should be able to activate it at any time combat or no since that's how it worked in the IP.
I honestly wouldn't mind if the fed version had a debuff when cloaked though so they took more damage or some thing reasonable, or letting the klingons have the better version of the cloak than feds. It just defeats the purpose of having cloak in general if you can't use it like they do in the show.
lol Good luck trying to find any logic in Cryptic's way of dealing with things.
They will write one thing in their own lore and then completely disregard it and counter it with another when it fits them.
How about declaring 'the Doctor' as a sentient being with his own rights as any living being in the lore and now using sentient A.I. that kills itself to counter it's enemies? Not quite the behavior of the Federation, the pillar of moral and ethic in the galaxy. I've noticed that cryptic will do whatever they see fit for the time being even if it means contradicting their own previous views.
However the point of the discussion was wheather the Fed. should be getting a cloak. I have a few points of why I believe they shouldn't:
-It's against canon (although I agree with the players that say the canon has gone down the drain in STO), I never use cloak on my Feds. because I'm a big ST fan and it doesn't seem right to me.
-It's against Federation principles to break treaties and their given word and I would hate it if the Federation in STO turns into an Earth-like conquering empire with disregard of everything else but their narrow minded current needs (which is unfortunately slowly happening). I understand that STO is an MMO and other rules apply, but honestly I believe that we can have the moral 'hero' faction even in an MMO without stepping on their principles and the point of their existence.
-It's game breaking - I am a firm believer that different factions/cultures should have a different view on their warfare and different branches of technology. For me the interesting part is this diversity. To each their own. Then when I go to PvP I have to use my tech. advantages to counter my opponent from the other faction. If we have the exact same it gets kinda' pointless and boring, at least for me.
-It's destroying the KDF - Feds. get KDF consoles through lockboxes. Feds get the Honor Guard through the rep. system (KDF does MACO as well). Feds have cloak on 2 starships. The Vesta, a sci-vessel can mount DHC. What we'll probably see next is Flight-deck cruisers for the Federation. I wonder what will be anyone's incentive to play the KDF, when you'll have all the KDF tech on the Fed. side and yet if you want to go KDF, you have to level up a Fed. to 25?
-Federation starships have other advantages - increased hull, better shield modifiers, better escort turn rates...what would be nice if the cloak is such a problematic issue for Fed. players is to be given tech that can improve their ways of countering/discovering it. But please, for Star Trek sake, let us not have everything the same on every faction.
What would be the point of a Romulan faction that I see many players are eagerly expecting if they get Fed. content, start at level 25 and the Feds. can get and fly all their ships and use all their tech? IMHO, we need to have more diversity, not less.
I perswonally don't care if Feds get cloaks or not, but, I think it's safe to say the "Canon" boat set sail a looooooooooooong time ago in this game and will never return.
As far as I can tell, most of this talk of cloaks (why not capes?) hinges on fluff and the desire for a person's favorite ship to have extra abilities or do things it cannot currently do.
Simply put, there is currently no compelling gameplay reason to give Federation starships cloaking devices as a common feature. None. If Klingon vs. Federation PvP is to remain a game feature, then there needs to be a compelling reason to pick playing as a Klingon. There needs to be a measure of mechanical asymmetry. Klingon vessels get cloaking and canon-cruisers, while Federation gets more overall ships to choose from and greater resiliency and flexibility in general.
This honestly isn't about cloaking devices. If you want to have a starship that appears out of nowhere and rips into things, you can absolutely do that. You just play as a Klingon or pay money for one of the two Federation ships that have access to cloaking. That style of play is available right now for free.
I honestly believe that, at this point, it's more about people who want to enjoy a Klingon-faction sort of play style without giving up their favorite federation ship with it's super-cool load-out. Or "because of RP" or whatever.
Huh, what, a cloaking thread? Those never pop up...
First, cloak in its current state is mostly a gimmick in PvE, and PvP is mostly a gimmick at all times.... soo...
And second, just about any ship you could possibly want to fly can slip MES into the build somewhere for those odd times you really need to get your stealth fix.
Honestly, as "cool" as cloaking is, its not really all that to use. The last thing in the world that is affecting my gameplay is a ship cloaking. Unless they decide to give up Donatra's cloak to us my opinion will be the same. Cloak is a non-issue.
Maybe that's just because both my characters spent some points in sensors. I can see you anyway. Why do you care if your cloaked other then the short lived damage buff, that unless your in a bop you can't reapply anyway? And if you are a BoP, you have to drop your shields...
I play KDF, and most of my ships don't even cloak... Gumby, Kar'Fi, Vo'Quv, Maurader... Every so often I get into my BoP but its rare. Cloak just really isn't all it's cracked up to be.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Let's see I wasn't meaning to start a whole bloody thing about whiny Feds or anything like that. But, since everyone is doing all this...Let's go back in to cannon history.
Kirk steals the Cloaking Device from the Romulans. This was actually done prior to the Klingons obtaining the cloaking device during the third technology trade with the Romulans.
1st Technology Trade - Obtain Warp drive technology that would allow them to obtain speeds to be a tactical element in the universe.
2nd Technology Trade - The Klingon K-Hulls. The Battlecruiser and a few other "older" designs. BY this time the Klingon Empire started to field photon-torpedo style torpedoes and they was also traded to the Romulans during this trade along with FTL beam weapons. The Old series battlecruiser didn't use torpedoes.
3rd Technology Trade - This dealt more with the Klingons obtain some items more than the Romulans obtaining the goodies. This is the trade that the Klingons received the Bird of Prey and the Cloaking Device. This is the BoP that all Klingon players love.
There has also been several published books that said the Federation did develop the cloaking device prior to the Klingons obtaining it. The Federation is known to have used the Cloaking device during "Special Operation" missions. This technology was also applied to buildings that the Federation used to observe lesser advanced civilizations.
It was stated that when Kirk turned the device over to the Federation Admiralty they tried to install it into another testbed ship, but the device failed to operate.
The Old-style Romulan Cloaking device isn't an individual operating device on its own. The device has to be plugged into the ship's shield grind. This is the actual reason why the starship's shield will not operate during the operation of the cloaking device. If both is operated, the starships shielding system will overload. This style of Cloaking Device was changed out to a system that was integrated into the starships hull. The Cloaking Device on the BoP is the tubular looking structure that is located on the upper forward section of the command boom's pod. When a starship operates its cloaking device it actually switches onto a passive sensor instead of an active sensor. This is the reason why a starship cannot fire weapons while under the cloaking device. The passive sensor can only scanner and detect objects, it cannot be used to fire weapons. This is like a sniper going and operating a laser targeting system in the middle of the night, its a dead give away. The Cloaking Device also draws an enormous amount of power from the starship's power grid.
All of these reasons. Passive Sensors, no shields, drawing power from the starship's power grid is the actual reasons that the Federation wouldn't use the cloaking device. Federation Captains would rather have the constant protection of their shields and be able to detect and identify a target rather than seeing only "sensor shadows". The fact that a treat was written with the Romulans that the Federation wouldn't use the device is just the writers reason not to use the device on Federation starships.
Cloaking Device used by Federation starships. The biggest example is the starship that was used by 7of9's parents while they was observing the Borg. They used a cloaking device to accomplish this. At no time did they mention where they got the device from, but it would be assumed that the device was an integrated part of the starship's design.
Well, there is actually a good reason for the Feds to start using cloaking tech now. In the show they didn't use it because of a treaty with the Romulans. Given the current state of the RSE, is that treaty still valid?
Yes, and same reasons that where given in the last "feds want cloaks" threads and all the ones before it.
The President of the UFP declared the UFP and Star Fleet would not further use or research cloaking and honor the treaties signed in good faith with the Romulan and KDF.
Let's see I wasn't meaning to start a whole bloody thing about whiny Feds or anything like that. But, since everyone is doing all this...Let's go back in to cannon history.
Kirk steals the Cloaking Device from the Romulans. This was actually done prior to the Klingons obtaining the cloaking device during the third technology trade with the Romulans.
1st Technology Trade - Obtain Warp drive technology that would allow them to obtain speeds to be a tactical element in the universe.
2nd Technology Trade - The Klingon K-Hulls. The Battlecruiser and a few other "older" designs. BY this time the Klingon Empire started to field photon-torpedo style torpedoes and they was also traded to the Romulans during this trade along with FTL beam weapons. The Old series battlecruiser didn't use torpedoes.
3rd Technology Trade - This dealt more with the Klingons obtain some items more than the Romulans obtaining the goodies. This is the trade that the Klingons received the Bird of Prey and the Cloaking Device. This is the BoP that all Klingon players love.
There has also been several published books that said the Federation did develop the cloaking device prior to the Klingons obtaining it. The Federation is known to have used the Cloaking device during "Special Operation" missions. This technology was also applied to buildings that the Federation used to observe lesser advanced civilizations.
It was stated that when Kirk turned the device over to the Federation Admiralty they tried to install it into another testbed ship, but the device failed to operate.
The Old-style Romulan Cloaking device isn't an individual operating device on its own. The device has to be plugged into the ship's shield grind. This is the actual reason why the starship's shield will not operate during the operation of the cloaking device. If both is operated, the starships shielding system will overload. This style of Cloaking Device was changed out to a system that was integrated into the starships hull. The Cloaking Device on the BoP is the tubular looking structure that is located on the upper forward section of the command boom's pod. When a starship operates its cloaking device it actually switches onto a passive sensor instead of an active sensor. This is the reason why a starship cannot fire weapons while under the cloaking device. The passive sensor can only scanner and detect objects, it cannot be used to fire weapons. This is like a sniper going and operating a laser targeting system in the middle of the night, its a dead give away. The Cloaking Device also draws an enormous amount of power from the starship's power grid.
All of these reasons. Passive Sensors, no shields, drawing power from the starship's power grid is the actual reasons that the Federation wouldn't use the cloaking device. Federation Captains would rather have the constant protection of their shields and be able to detect and identify a target rather than seeing only "sensor shadows". The fact that a treat was written with the Romulans that the Federation wouldn't use the device is just the writers reason not to use the device on Federation starships.
Cloaking Device used by Federation starships. The biggest example is the starship that was used by 7of9's parents while they was observing the Borg. They used a cloaking device to accomplish this. At no time did they mention where they got the device from, but it would be assumed that the device was an integrated part of the starship's design.
What timeline are you refering to with Kirk? I do not remember him acquiring a Romulan coaking device in the TOS and only seen him have any experience with the KDF cloaking from when they captured the BoP on the third movie. Long long after the Klingons had teaded Battle cruisers and better warp drives with the Romulans for disruptors and cloaking technology.
My apoligies. I forgof the TOS episode, the Enterprise Incident where Kirk stoled the RSE advanced version of the cloaking technology they had developed decades after the Klingon - Romulan trade that gave the KDF thier cloaking technology.
Comments
So the small number of cloaked ships can be attributed to the treaty, which perservered past Romulus blowing up, and the cloaked ships that do exist can be attributed to the treaty's very recent violation.
As for the console issue, since the console can only be used on pre-determined cloak ships I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude the 'console' itself exists only as an interface with a larger device built into the ship itself.
STO will never be canon. It never has been, never will be nor can it be.
As for your GTFO? Pffft. Whatever! I have just as much right here as you and am a paying customer. I have a valid opinion. If you don't like it I don't care. If you can't be more respectful why don't you GTFO? There's the door.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
This is all just putting into the idea of the game. As a Star Trek fan, I wouldn't give cloaking technology to any of the Federation ships because I believe Federation ships do not need it (despite the fact two ships already have it in game blue-side). Cloaking technology was primarily used in Star Trek as an tactical advantage while attacking an enemy ship (or trying to delay/escape the encounter or force the encounter under one's terms). Federation, IMHO at least, has always been about only fighting as a last resort and when driven to the defense by other factions (or defending those in need). Federation never needed to hide their ships, and do something behind the curtains - Federation was always about being noble, open, friendly, finding a solution that fits everyone. Even in a deep state of war with the Klingons, Federation would stay true to their beliefs, their military ways. I just don't see Fed getting so desperate that they'd forget what it is to be a Federation and Human in the first place. Besides, I never had a feeling Federation is loosing the war with the Klingons anyway.
I Personally play both factions, I never had a feeling either of the factions have an huge advantage over the other ship-wise. Battlecruisers are a different breed of ships compared to Federation cruisers and I find them much more enjoyable, however I find Federation escorts superior to the KDF, as well as science ships, which I honestly think there's not enough on the Klingon side.
Moreover, I do not think it's a good thing to borrow as many elements of the Klingon gameplay to the Federation as a content (even if we're talking something else and not cloaking devices), I believe this is not going to help with the number disparity (and thus content disparity) over the factions at all, more then likely just worsening the situation.
My humble 2 cents, anyway.
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I play mostly KDF but in all honesty the only ship I would like to see have a battle cloak on fed side is the defiant. I was completely against it for a few years but I had noticed that was the reason I started KDF besides loving the lore from the series of the Klingon Empire. I just think if it was to get one it would only be for the defiant and that it would have to be a 2 console piece set since a console is already for the regular cloak. On the same token though I do think the raptors should have a battle cloak as well.
In the long run though since this game is DS9 heavy since theres no delta quadrant and all the enemies except the borg are either allies of the federation or live off of support it. It will one day with the constant cut and paste content that the game will eventually return both factions to allies as it once was during the dominion war and most of TNG because its the only way it will ever fit together. In the history of wars when both sides just are going all out against each other I've never heard of 2 warring factions saying uhhh guys we are dieing can you both have a cease fire and pick up rocks for us?
I cannot forget the most 2 epic abilities in each factions history the b'rel enhanced battle cloak and the ablative armor of voyager being such TRIBBLE in this game. So I get this right ablative armor lasts 10 seconds and the b'rel just can't kill anything unless it has 10x the duration chang had to severly damage the enterprise. They probally have solutions for these they just want to wait till they are dead broke and sell them off in a lockbox.
The internet has doors? GTFO
Portal. Gateway. Access. Yep. Those will work. Have a nice trip.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Cloaking Technology is researched (in order to find counters) but no technology is built.
Yes it was addressed to you.
Your real life rationalization has no bearing in how the federation acts as the Hero in Star Trek. Even the creator of the IP was against the idea of the feds cloaking. His idea of humanity, even in conflict, that thry would not use such technologies.
The excerpt of ingame history from Path of 2409 honors that ideology.
Your PoV does not.
As to the "deprived" statement. The feds have not been deprived. They have 2 cloaking ships. They are as free to play the KDF as anyone else if they dislike the 2 choices they have as the hero federation
The "between the lines" dislike you seem to have for PvP and your perception how it has ruined the game in your opinion is definately out of place.
Us KDF fans who argue against the feds getting widespread dont do so because of any advantage it may give ( which is not much really) but because its something the hero feds dont use ( to the point of having many reasons as to why) and finally because it, would be just another thing taken from the KDF faction purely on fed asking for it.
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Klingons are Spiritual Warriors who fight for and with Honor, they don't exist in this game.
That cloaked Defiant-R using only 8 consoles still makes them shake. All that is seen in the galaxy is the warp signatures of fleeing Klingon ships. Seems like for them, today IS a good day to die !
*end transmission*
The console disagrees with you. According to http://www.stowiki.org/Universal_Consoles
I do not own the console but this is supposedly the text that accompanies it. It states pretty clearly that the Federation has just begun to start breaking the treaty.
'Selected ships' gives them enough wiggle room to justify a hobbled cloak ability for the Federation though. This is not something that everybody is wholeheartedly behind, so it's moving slowly. That can be the reason in the fiction, anyway.
lol
They will write one thing in their own lore and then completely disregard it and counter it with another when it fits them.
How about declaring 'the Doctor' as a sentient being with his own rights as any living being in the lore and now using sentient A.I. that kills itself to counter it's enemies? Not quite the behavior of the Federation, the pillar of moral and ethic in the galaxy. I've noticed that cryptic will do whatever they see fit for the time being even if it means contradicting their own previous views.
However the point of the discussion was wheather the Fed. should be getting a cloak. I have a few points of why I believe they shouldn't:
-It's against canon (although I agree with the players that say the canon has gone down the drain in STO), I never use cloak on my Feds. because I'm a big ST fan and it doesn't seem right to me.
-It's against Federation principles to break treaties and their given word and I would hate it if the Federation in STO turns into an Earth-like conquering empire with disregard of everything else but their narrow minded current needs (which is unfortunately slowly happening). I understand that STO is an MMO and other rules apply, but honestly I believe that we can have the moral 'hero' faction even in an MMO without stepping on their principles and the point of their existence.
-It's game breaking - I am a firm believer that different factions/cultures should have a different view on their warfare and different branches of technology. For me the interesting part is this diversity. To each their own. Then when I go to PvP I have to use my tech. advantages to counter my opponent from the other faction. If we have the exact same it gets kinda' pointless and boring, at least for me.
-It's destroying the KDF - Feds. get KDF consoles through lockboxes. Feds get the Honor Guard through the rep. system (KDF does MACO as well). Feds have cloak on 2 starships. The Vesta, a sci-vessel can mount DHC. What we'll probably see next is Flight-deck cruisers for the Federation. I wonder what will be anyone's incentive to play the KDF, when you'll have all the KDF tech on the Fed. side and yet if you want to go KDF, you have to level up a Fed. to 25?
-Federation starships have other advantages - increased hull, better shield modifiers, better escort turn rates...what would be nice if the cloak is such a problematic issue for Fed. players is to be given tech that can improve their ways of countering/discovering it. But please, for Star Trek sake, let us not have everything the same on every faction.
What would be the point of a Romulan faction that I see many players are eagerly expecting if they get Fed. content, start at level 25 and the Feds. can get and fly all their ships and use all their tech? IMHO, we need to have more diversity, not less.
All that aside why do many feds want cloaks and why do most klingons NOT want feds to have cloaks
Simple
Cloaked player engages enemy player sees weapon types ect......Evads and Cloaks changes consoles /weapons/shields to counter enemy player then boasts about how great a pvper he is
This is what is all about
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
LOL
I play usually KDF, so what you said is kinda' new for me as I don't encounter many cloaked ships from my side. I guess that would only work on the BoP & the battlecloak since you can't engage the regular one once in combat, but LOL
I would never imagine myself doing that.
That would be the Grandfathered clause I mentioned. The select ships are the AGT galaxy and Defiant.
This is the original rext that appeared when the AGT and Defiant first appeared.
Its not new but many years old now.
R.I.P
Maybe thats whats irs about for those few feds playing thier KDD alts.... The majority of us KDF fans just do not wish to see another KDF faction ability given to the feds just because they want it.
The feds have thier select cloaking vessels. Thats all they need and it adheres to thier image as the cultured and paladinesque hero in the IP.
Cloaking has been a Klingon technology for a long time and it suits both our definition of honor and our actions as a conquest expanding predator mindset race and culture.
R.I.P
I honestly wouldn't mind if the fed version had a debuff when cloaked though so they took more damage or some thing reasonable, or letting the klingons have the better version of the cloak than feds. It just defeats the purpose of having cloak in general if you can't use it like they do in the show.
I perswonally don't care if Feds get cloaks or not, but, I think it's safe to say the "Canon" boat set sail a looooooooooooong time ago in this game and will never return.
^^ this
And here is what you must give up
1) shield capacity
2) hull hitpoints
3) 1 boff slot
4) 1 console slot
just like the bop and b'rel etc...
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Simply put, there is currently no compelling gameplay reason to give Federation starships cloaking devices as a common feature. None. If Klingon vs. Federation PvP is to remain a game feature, then there needs to be a compelling reason to pick playing as a Klingon. There needs to be a measure of mechanical asymmetry. Klingon vessels get cloaking and canon-cruisers, while Federation gets more overall ships to choose from and greater resiliency and flexibility in general.
This honestly isn't about cloaking devices. If you want to have a starship that appears out of nowhere and rips into things, you can absolutely do that. You just play as a Klingon or pay money for one of the two Federation ships that have access to cloaking. That style of play is available right now for free.
I honestly believe that, at this point, it's more about people who want to enjoy a Klingon-faction sort of play style without giving up their favorite federation ship with it's super-cool load-out. Or "because of RP" or whatever.
First, cloak in its current state is mostly a gimmick in PvE, and PvP is mostly a gimmick at all times.... soo...
And second, just about any ship you could possibly want to fly can slip MES into the build somewhere for those odd times you really need to get your stealth fix.
Honestly, as "cool" as cloaking is, its not really all that to use. The last thing in the world that is affecting my gameplay is a ship cloaking. Unless they decide to give up Donatra's cloak to us my opinion will be the same. Cloak is a non-issue.
Maybe that's just because both my characters spent some points in sensors. I can see you anyway. Why do you care if your cloaked other then the short lived damage buff, that unless your in a bop you can't reapply anyway? And if you are a BoP, you have to drop your shields...
I play KDF, and most of my ships don't even cloak... Gumby, Kar'Fi, Vo'Quv, Maurader... Every so often I get into my BoP but its rare. Cloak just really isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Kirk steals the Cloaking Device from the Romulans. This was actually done prior to the Klingons obtaining the cloaking device during the third technology trade with the Romulans.
1st Technology Trade - Obtain Warp drive technology that would allow them to obtain speeds to be a tactical element in the universe.
2nd Technology Trade - The Klingon K-Hulls. The Battlecruiser and a few other "older" designs. BY this time the Klingon Empire started to field photon-torpedo style torpedoes and they was also traded to the Romulans during this trade along with FTL beam weapons. The Old series battlecruiser didn't use torpedoes.
3rd Technology Trade - This dealt more with the Klingons obtain some items more than the Romulans obtaining the goodies. This is the trade that the Klingons received the Bird of Prey and the Cloaking Device. This is the BoP that all Klingon players love.
There has also been several published books that said the Federation did develop the cloaking device prior to the Klingons obtaining it. The Federation is known to have used the Cloaking device during "Special Operation" missions. This technology was also applied to buildings that the Federation used to observe lesser advanced civilizations.
It was stated that when Kirk turned the device over to the Federation Admiralty they tried to install it into another testbed ship, but the device failed to operate.
The Old-style Romulan Cloaking device isn't an individual operating device on its own. The device has to be plugged into the ship's shield grind. This is the actual reason why the starship's shield will not operate during the operation of the cloaking device. If both is operated, the starships shielding system will overload. This style of Cloaking Device was changed out to a system that was integrated into the starships hull. The Cloaking Device on the BoP is the tubular looking structure that is located on the upper forward section of the command boom's pod. When a starship operates its cloaking device it actually switches onto a passive sensor instead of an active sensor. This is the reason why a starship cannot fire weapons while under the cloaking device. The passive sensor can only scanner and detect objects, it cannot be used to fire weapons. This is like a sniper going and operating a laser targeting system in the middle of the night, its a dead give away. The Cloaking Device also draws an enormous amount of power from the starship's power grid.
All of these reasons. Passive Sensors, no shields, drawing power from the starship's power grid is the actual reasons that the Federation wouldn't use the cloaking device. Federation Captains would rather have the constant protection of their shields and be able to detect and identify a target rather than seeing only "sensor shadows". The fact that a treat was written with the Romulans that the Federation wouldn't use the device is just the writers reason not to use the device on Federation starships.
Cloaking Device used by Federation starships. The biggest example is the starship that was used by 7of9's parents while they was observing the Borg. They used a cloaking device to accomplish this. At no time did they mention where they got the device from, but it would be assumed that the device was an integrated part of the starship's design.
My character Tsin'xing
The President of the UFP declared the UFP and Star Fleet would not further use or research cloaking and honor the treaties signed in good faith with the Romulan and KDF.
R.I.P
What timeline are you refering to with Kirk? I do not remember him acquiring a Romulan coaking device in the TOS and only seen him have any experience with the KDF cloaking from when they captured the BoP on the third movie. Long long after the Klingons had teaded Battle cruisers and better warp drives with the Romulans for disruptors and cloaking technology.
R.I.P
R.I.P