I don't know what Trek you watched, but in the TV series' I watched, the ships were a lot closer than we get in this game. Sometimes they were clearly hundreds of meters apart at most.
YES! And Picard used "Ramming Speed" at least once.
For me, it's because ground combat isn't any different from any other MMO out there, and quite honestly, other MMOs do ground combat better. In STO, I have at most a dozen abilities on the ground and very few tactical options, and enemies just aren't particularly interesting or challenging. The only reason I play ground combat at all is because it's Star Trek, and even then, that'll only get me through a ground mission once or twice before I never want to play it again. If all of STO was like ground combat, I'd have quit playing years ago because other games are more compelling.
Space combat is what sets STO apart from all the other MMOs. No game I've ever encountered has anything like it. It''s a refreshing change from all the other space combat games that are basically just first-person shooters in space or Star Fox clones. I love the slow movement, the tactical forethought, the power management, the huge array of options in customizing my abilities. I love that the focus is on capital ship combat, not one-man fighter combat. The AI could be better, but I find some enemy groups like Romulans and Tholians pretty challenging, even after playing this game for three years.
Actually I've yet to see any other MMO with STO's mechanics. The squad-based build, heavily fluid combat and lack of a holy trinity is quite unique. Also, this is one of only two games I've ever seen where buffs/debuffs are given a good treatment and can rule. The other is no longer around.
Using flanking, combining expose and exploits, and dodging out of hazard patches (plasma fire or grenades) while trying to hold the enemy inside your hazards (mortars, hyperionic radiation, etc) is very fun and as I said, not something I've seen anywhere else.
In WOW only the rogue and variants (druid in cat form etc) get flanking, here everyone and it is a significant boost to damage. In 99% of games, battles come down to tank-and-spank strategies where the enemy and one player stand still and everyone else spams the same one or two powers over and over for a few minutes until it is dead. Here, boss fights have people moving in circles to flank or dodge, moving using every power they have, cycling weapons and using temp powers.
If you know of games that play like this please give me a recommendation.
What I would REALLY like is if we could bring squads to group things. Or even just one guy, like on New Romulus, but in an action not just encountering others wandering around randomly.
The AI seems to have improved anyhow, they don't fiddle with their frequency rotators all the time now. Never see them play with it when not fighting Borg.
I'm a bit late to this thread, but please add my voice as one that does not hate ground combat. In fact, it's ground combat that's kept me interested in this game.
I enjoyed ground combat before season 4, but that season was a major boost to my enjoyment. I've put in a lot of time training, equipping and grouping my boffs. I only run ground missions on elite and love the challenge of taking down mobs which feature commander/captain level baddies. The unlockable missions on New Romulus have been some of the most challenging yet. The unlock missions are the only aspect of the reputation system that keeps me coming back, and looking forward to new reputation based factions.
I don't know what Trek you watched, but in the TV series' I watched, the ships were a lot closer than we get in this game. Sometimes they were clearly hundreds of meters apart at most.
I have seen lots of times in ToS where Kirks ship is firing it phasers and torps further out than you can tell.I can't recall the episode in where Kirk is firng a Rom BoP that is cloaked with it phasers which is more than 10km from the Enterprise.
This will tell you the range of the photons which can travel aat warp speeds
This is why it is not a good idea for Picard to be so close to Rom Warbird as it will crush the Enterprise D with a few hits of its plasma torps.It would be wise if he were further out past 10 km more like 10,000km and fire at range.
btw I ma more of Kirk fan ToS/TMP era.I do like Sisko though.
I would like to the range extended further out in this game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I like ground missions, or more precisely, the idea of ground missions. As they are, they aren't fluid enough. Currently it feels like a 3rd person shooter that suffers from framerate issues, even in "B" mode.
Time is a funny thing; There is always too much of it. Except when you need it the most, then there is never enough.
You surely haven't watched the same Trek as I did. In the Trek I saw, they don't use armor, turret, mines, personal shield, and their phaser insta kill/stun a target. Except on some "immune" target, like adapted borg.
In this game, you can spawn turret, use armor and shield, and need several shoot from an away team to kill something.
This. Space feels more like Trek than ground, but even then it's really iffy.
... shooter mode... ... in THIS game it makes you a liability to your team, unless you are just an epic player in the first place.
Or maybe the reversed is true if people really can't shoot anything without autoaim ?
I put a warrent out on a key setup that would be cost efficient many posts ago.
Having to move you fingers more in rpg mode and use "un-intuitive" controls, such as shooting with the "1" key make it awkward, clumsy and slow.
The wasd-configuration is standard in most games for a reason.
I also invited people to come play and let me see the rpg player in action and vice versa, I am not completely shut down to the idea it's possible in a slow environment.
That aside I don't know why you would want automation of your game. I take pride in training my speed, precision and what not in any game - becoming a better fighter is a core part of fighting.
What would really be the point of letting the script do an autohit I just don't feel it.
Where is the excitement in taking a shot if you know it's going to land.
You say you have to be an elite player to play in shooter mode and in that case I see your point. If you really can't play without autoaim what choice you got.
You surely haven't watched the same Trek as I did. In the Trek I saw, they don't use armor, turret, mines, personal shield, and their phaser insta kill/stun a target. Except on some "immune" target, like adapted borg.
In this game, you can spawn turret, use armor and shield, and need several shoot from an away team to kill something.
I have to and no they didn't use armour,turrets and mines in ground combat but this is an rpg and in those you get skills.I imagine it is the ship that is replicating it for you from what you choose to use on your kit.
It is nice to have change in pace from space to ground especially since space doesn't have the real effects of it.I will say this that Starfleet Command has the real effects of space combat as it can last for hours if you want it to.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
That aside I don't know why you would want automation of your game. I take pride in training my speed, precision and what not in any game - becoming a better fighter is a core part of fighting.
So, MMOFPS is the only genre that requires tuning of skills ? :rolleyes:
I can think of very few games that don't require reaction time, co-ordination, precision and what not.
And autoaim in game is certainly on that list. I don't know how it makes sense to you but I play games to do something - not to watch something, if the game plays itself what is the point.
Of course that includes as much user control as possible but as said before if people really need the autoaim it's at least great the feature is there for them to use.
So, MMOFPS is the only genre that requires tuning of skills ? :rolleyes:
I can think of very few games that don't require reaction time, co-ordination, precision and what not.
And autoaim in game is certainly on that list. I don't know how it makes sense to you but I play games to do something - not to watch something, if the game plays itself what is the point.
Of course that includes as much user control as possible but as said before if people really need the autoaim it's at least great the feature is there for them to use.
Have you played Tekken? Lots of people talk down about it being a "button mashing" game. Well... it takes skill to actually be good at it.
Honestly my growing up with Tekken instead of Halo might be why I like the ground combat controls.
So, MMOFPS is the only genre that requires tuning of skills ?
Let's cut to the chase. http://youtu.be/Fb90FBLfPBA
As far as ground combat goes beats STO in every conceivable way and a few ways that haven't been conceived yet.
I am not actually cussing STO, but using shooter controls in an inferior engine is like driving a Ferrari only in 1st gear. You can't gain respect for nerfing yourself.
There was a thread for playing this game with joypads a while back!
---
Ok, my opinion is as already said: in Space, STO would do almost as well as a single-player game, it works and is quite fun, but ground combat doesn't share the dynamic cut-and-thrust between near-death and life as can be seen in space.
A part of this is that only the science officer actually makes a good tank because he can heal reliably while the engineer and tactical officers have very limited options (although the engi has excellent tools to help). Yes taking cover would help but maps aren't designed for this (as say Gears of War or the Halo series encourage) and the enemy Ai will chase you so the best option is to deploy something else to draw aggro and flee the scene.
Ultimately, the devs have a hard time balancing the RPG aspect of the game (the "holy trinity") with third person shooter conventions.
Drink one shot for ever time someone complains about realism in Star Trek.
Drink two shots if they don't know what "fiction" is.
Planetside looks like a HALO knock-off. Seriously... It didn't look interesting to me at all, and I saw nothing in that ad that made me think it had better combat than STO.
Anyways, I play ground combat pretty much the same way I did Tekken, just with more buttons and less supercomboes.
Please do, I didn't see any points or examples being made, so perhaps in your next post...
Like I said, having to move your hands around between keys, and in clumsy un-natural combos at that, is not cost efficient.
If that is an unfair assessment I'd love to see a key bind that is as straight forward as classic wasd-configuration.
Just like I'd love to play with whoever is ready to prove that in you in rpg mode have even remotely the same fluency aswell.
But all that aside, even if it were I'd actually like to control my game, that's sort of my whole reason for playing it.
Please do, I didn't see any points or examples being made, so perhaps in your next post...
Like I said, having to move your hands around between keys, and in clumsy un-natural combos at that, is not cost efficient.
If that is an unfair assessment I'd love to see a key bind that is as straight forward as classic wasd-configuration.
Just like I'd love to play with whoever is ready to prove that in you in rpg mode have even remotely the same fluency aswell.
But all that aside, even if it were I'd actually like to control my game, that's sort of my whole reason for playing it.
Other than using WASD and the numeric keypad? I don't move my left hand from WASD unless I have a reason to stand still. I don't NEED to. i can do all of my weapon attacks devices and skill with the keypad controlled by my right hand.
Yeah, I use the defaults of 1, 2 for fire and alt fire, and the other keys for various other combats skills. Such as having photon grenade on 3, etc... Some of the skills I use less often are linked to Ctrl+ a number but not the commonly used ones.
However, I HATE remodulation from the depth of my heart, which is why I do not play ground STFs. The Borg adaptation concept has to be rethought (and don't play the "It's canon"-card now, 'cause then the whole game would have to be turned upside down :P).
However, I HATE remodulation from the depth of my heart, which is why I do not play ground STFs. The Borg adaptation concept has to be rethought (and don't play the "It's canon"-card now, 'cause then the whole game would have to be turned upside down :P).
I usually do like Worf and check to see if they can adapt to stabbity death.
recently i macro'd my 1,2 keys to a button on my flight controller. i always use the arrows to move and the numpad for abilities. Since i really hate the shooter mode I use the rpg mode and it all works just fine for me. Actually i've grown to enjoy ground combat since the macro idea hit me...too bad it took a year lol.
I actually like ground combat. I too use the WASD keys except when I am in the Pwer Plant on Defera. There I use the arrow keys to move and then the 1,2,3 for attacks. I play on a laptop without a keypad so I am going to have to come up with something to become more efficient.
Does anybody use mouse steering? I have never been used to full keyboard move and action. I use tab for cycling through targets and the key above it for closest target.
Borg remodulation is a drag. I use melee combat. That is actually good. There are several combo's and they hit hard against the borg. Animations are also nice.
I would like to have a baseball bat for hitting the borg. The ferengi whip is no good. The borg adapt and it has a pushback; you don't want that when you are in melee.
It would be cool if when fighting the borg a limb would come off or something.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Actually I've yet to see any other MMO with STO's mechanics. The squad-based build, heavily fluid combat and lack of a holy trinity is quite unique. Also, this is one of only two games I've ever seen where buffs/debuffs are given a good treatment and can rule. The other is no longer around.
Using flanking, combining expose and exploits, and dodging out of hazard patches (plasma fire or grenades) while trying to hold the enemy inside your hazards (mortars, hyperionic radiation, etc) is very fun and as I said, not something I've seen anywhere else.
In WOW only the rogue and variants (druid in cat form etc) get flanking, here everyone and it is a significant boost to damage. In 99% of games, battles come down to tank-and-spank strategies where the enemy and one player stand still and everyone else spams the same one or two powers over and over for a few minutes until it is dead. Here, boss fights have people moving in circles to flank or dodge, moving using every power they have, cycling weapons and using temp powers.
If you know of games that play like this please give me a recommendation.
What I would REALLY like is if we could bring squads to group things. Or even just one guy, like on New Romulus, but in an action not just encountering others wandering around randomly.
The AI seems to have improved anyhow, they don't fiddle with their frequency rotators all the time now. Never see them play with it when not fighting Borg.
I enjoyed ground combat before season 4, but that season was a major boost to my enjoyment. I've put in a lot of time training, equipping and grouping my boffs. I only run ground missions on elite and love the challenge of taking down mobs which feature commander/captain level baddies. The unlockable missions on New Romulus have been some of the most challenging yet. The unlock missions are the only aspect of the reputation system that keeps me coming back, and looking forward to new reputation based factions.
I have seen lots of times in ToS where Kirks ship is firing it phasers and torps further out than you can tell.I can't recall the episode in where Kirk is firng a Rom BoP that is cloaked with it phasers which is more than 10km from the Enterprise.
This will tell you the range of the photons which can travel aat warp speeds
http://www.ussenterprise.co.uk/enterprise/ent/
This is why it is not a good idea for Picard to be so close to Rom Warbird as it will crush the Enterprise D with a few hits of its plasma torps.It would be wise if he were further out past 10 km more like 10,000km and fire at range.
btw I ma more of Kirk fan ToS/TMP era.I do like Sisko though.
I would like to the range extended further out in this game.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
My character Tsin'xing
This. Space feels more like Trek than ground, but even then it's really iffy.
Or maybe the reversed is true if people really can't shoot anything without autoaim ?
I put a warrent out on a key setup that would be cost efficient many posts ago.
Having to move you fingers more in rpg mode and use "un-intuitive" controls, such as shooting with the "1" key make it awkward, clumsy and slow.
The wasd-configuration is standard in most games for a reason.
I also invited people to come play and let me see the rpg player in action and vice versa, I am not completely shut down to the idea it's possible in a slow environment.
That aside I don't know why you would want automation of your game. I take pride in training my speed, precision and what not in any game - becoming a better fighter is a core part of fighting.
What would really be the point of letting the script do an autohit I just don't feel it.
Where is the excitement in taking a shot if you know it's going to land.
You say you have to be an elite player to play in shooter mode and in that case I see your point. If you really can't play without autoaim what choice you got.
I have to and no they didn't use armour,turrets and mines in ground combat but this is an rpg and in those you get skills.I imagine it is the ship that is replicating it for you from what you choose to use on your kit.
It is nice to have change in pace from space to ground especially since space doesn't have the real effects of it.I will say this that Starfleet Command has the real effects of space combat as it can last for hours if you want it to.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
@ Vest: Like I said before, i use one hand to move and the other to shoot and activate skills.
My character Tsin'xing
Wrong genre. This isn't an MMOFPS.
I do love the pseudo-lightsabres in this game, however.
Drink one shot for ever time someone complains about realism in Star Trek.
Drink two shots if they don't know what "fiction" is.
I can think of very few games that don't require reaction time, co-ordination, precision and what not.
And autoaim in game is certainly on that list. I don't know how it makes sense to you but I play games to do something - not to watch something, if the game plays itself what is the point.
Of course that includes as much user control as possible but as said before if people really need the autoaim it's at least great the feature is there for them to use.
Honestly my growing up with Tekken instead of Halo might be why I like the ground combat controls.
My character Tsin'xing
http://youtu.be/Fb90FBLfPBA
As far as ground combat goes beats STO in every conceivable way and a few ways that haven't been conceived yet.
I am not actually cussing STO, but using shooter controls in an inferior engine is like driving a Ferrari only in 1st gear. You can't gain respect for nerfing yourself.
There was a thread for playing this game with joypads a while back!
---
Ok, my opinion is as already said: in Space, STO would do almost as well as a single-player game, it works and is quite fun, but ground combat doesn't share the dynamic cut-and-thrust between near-death and life as can be seen in space.
A part of this is that only the science officer actually makes a good tank because he can heal reliably while the engineer and tactical officers have very limited options (although the engi has excellent tools to help). Yes taking cover would help but maps aren't designed for this (as say Gears of War or the Halo series encourage) and the enemy Ai will chase you so the best option is to deploy something else to draw aggro and flee the scene.
Ultimately, the devs have a hard time balancing the RPG aspect of the game (the "holy trinity") with third person shooter conventions.
Drink one shot for ever time someone complains about realism in Star Trek.
Drink two shots if they don't know what "fiction" is.
Anyways, I play ground combat pretty much the same way I did Tekken, just with more buttons and less supercomboes.
My character Tsin'xing
Please do, I didn't see any points or examples being made, so perhaps in your next post...
Like I said, having to move your hands around between keys, and in clumsy un-natural combos at that, is not cost efficient.
If that is an unfair assessment I'd love to see a key bind that is as straight forward as classic wasd-configuration.
Just like I'd love to play with whoever is ready to prove that in you in rpg mode have even remotely the same fluency aswell.
But all that aside, even if it were I'd actually like to control my game, that's sort of my whole reason for playing it.
L2P
www.divisionhispana.com
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
However, I HATE remodulation from the depth of my heart, which is why I do not play ground STFs. The Borg adaptation concept has to be rethought (and don't play the "It's canon"-card now, 'cause then the whole game would have to be turned upside down :P).
STOWiki admin.
My character Tsin'xing
Borg remodulation is a drag. I use melee combat. That is actually good. There are several combo's and they hit hard against the borg. Animations are also nice.
I would like to have a baseball bat for hitting the borg. The ferengi whip is no good. The borg adapt and it has a pushback; you don't want that when you are in melee.
It would be cool if when fighting the borg a limb would come off or something.