I don't hate ground combat I actually like it as space combat doesn't feel like Star Trek only range I don't think so.The tractor beam is not like it is in the show no hold or rebel buttons.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I hate ground because the A.I. is the worst I've seen in any game since pre-1990. And I mean that. The NPCs are a bunch of lobotomized gutter monkeys.
I was doing a mission where I get sucked into a wormhole and have to board my captor's ship.
In the first room, the dribbling muck puppets who call themselves officers of the federation manage to pull THREE waves of enemies at once, while falling into the lowered area and running up the stairs repeatedly. One of them dies, then when all the fighting is over, my idiot Starfleet Academy laureates decides the enemies trapped behind the force fields (Klingon Targs in this case) had to be aggressively walked at! So they run up and hump the force field while the Targs just stand there and look at them! I never actually GET OUT of combat because of this, and have to do the entire freaking mission with only 3 of my Commodore 64-level drones to help me.
Space is great, because I never have a "friendly" neanderthal AI to mess up what I'm doing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] bloodpact.net
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."
Since my post got page-parsed within a second of me posting:
I hate ground because the A.I. is the worst I've seen in any game since pre-1990. And I mean that. The NPCs are a bunch of lobotomized gutter monkeys.
I was doing a mission where I get sucked into a wormhole and have to board my captor's ship.
In the first room, the dribbling muck puppets who call themselves officers of the federation manage to pull THREE waves of enemies at once, while falling into the lowered area and running up the stairs repeatedly. One of them dies, then when all the fighting is over, my idiot Starfleet Academy laureates decides the enemies trapped behind the force fields (Klingon Targs in this case) had to be aggressively walked at! So they run up and hump the force field while the Targs just stand there and look at them! I never actually GET OUT of combat because of this, and have to do the entire freaking mission with only 3 of my Commodore 64-level drones to help me.
Space is great, because I never have a "friendly" neanderthal AI to mess up what I'm doing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] bloodpact.net
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."
1.bad AI
2.bad pathing (fire caves)
3.Boffs dont know how to stay out of the fire(plasma,cold)
4.grenades thrown tend to blow up in my face(grenades ive thrown)
5.Boffs/enemies fall through floors/ground
6.Transporting from one place to another leaves my boffs behind(replaying Azure rescue)
id post more but cant think of any, havent played since the 31st of December.
There aren't nearly enough ground sets. We have what, over a dozen space sets now? We have like 2 or 3 ground sets. And one of them is just for Nukara. What am I going to do with a hazardous environment suit set?
Add about 10 new ground sets to the game, and make 4 or 5 of them mission reward sets so everyone can get them. Then I think ground combat won't suck so much anymore.
Fire cave is playable again, its not perfect, they do get hooked up still but you can get them out now.
The ground AI needs some major work, any abilities/devices they can use seem randomly applied. Buff damage and attack? nope, buff damage and use fire extinguisher 7 times in a row? Right. The AI has no clue what anything does or how to use it, its really sad.
simply because i HATE any kind of game where it takes an age continualy shooting something to kill them where it takes not even a fraction of that time to kill you...
also it felt more like your useualy third person grinder.
- The ground AI is a joke, this really is like playing an old 1990's game
- The pathing is still bad, they run into walls and objects still, the "fix" was to just give them super jumping powers so the LEAP over stuff, but it's still BAD. The just need to figure out how to get the officers to walk around stuff.
- The agro mechanics is out of control, the pull when the are not supposed to, possibly this could be a quick UI fix to have keybinds for 'passive', 'agressive', 'defend', etc.
I suggest adding toggle on/off formation commands to the UI such as
- 'line abreast' for wide open areas
- 'single file' for closed-quarters fighting and navigating tight areas
- 'wedge' for general purpose
- 'regroup' for a huddle on the captain to reorganize if/when they go crazy in an extended combat
- 'take cover' run to an area with no enemies, so they don't pull more agro, but also has objects/walls inbetween to diliberately break enemy LOS. - ok, this one could be damn hard to code, but this is supposed to be a modern game after all.
Also, they should just revive the captain if he/she is down without asking for help, or an option for on/off.
For me, it's because ground combat isn't any different from any other MMO out there, and quite honestly, other MMOs do ground combat better. In STO, I have at most a dozen abilities on the ground and very few tactical options, and enemies just aren't particularly interesting or challenging. The only reason I play ground combat at all is because it's Star Trek, and even then, that'll only get me through a ground mission once or twice before I never want to play it again. If all of STO was like ground combat, I'd have quit playing years ago because other games are more compelling.
Space combat is what sets STO apart from all the other MMOs. No game I've ever encountered has anything like it. It''s a refreshing change from all the other space combat games that are basically just first-person shooters in space or Star Fox clones. I love the slow movement, the tactical forethought, the power management, the huge array of options in customizing my abilities. I love that the focus is on capital ship combat, not one-man fighter combat. The AI could be better, but I find some enemy groups like Romulans and Tholians pretty challenging, even after playing this game for three years.
I ma not sure many of you played a real space combat game.The space combat in this game doesn't feel anything like Trek.The range is to close and the torps are to slow as well as the tractot beam doesn't work right.
The ground combat feel a lot like Trek.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I like the ground combat. I think the movement could be a little more fluid, and the controls a little more crisp, but overall, I think it's a lot of fun, and feels different from a lot of other games out there.
Just wanted to add that the most fun I think I've had on the ground in the past six months is in Q's winter wonderland killing the Snowman overlord.
Having 20+ people attack a boss at the same time is awesome and its a shame nothing in any of the ground STFs feels as good as throwing snowballs at snowman.
If you think ground combat is bad now you were not around during beta when ground combat was much slower and certain combos ruled the field.
The never ending Romulans: You drop one Rom only to have him raised by a medic the fully healed of both shield and life energy.
In short the medic was allways the first to die.
The Darha Master who did over 1,500 points with a batlith.
The Sword Master who did over 1,000 points with a batlith.
Borg drones that would beam in more drones so you in the end had to kill 10 drones to end a mission.
I ma not sure many of you played a real space combat game.The space combat in this game doesn't feel anything like Trek.The range is to close and the torps are to slow as well as the tractot beam doesn't work right.
The ground combat feel a lot like Trek.
I don't know what Trek you watched, but in the TV series' I watched, the ships were a lot closer than we get in this game. Sometimes they were clearly hundreds of meters apart at most.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I ma not sure many of you played a real space combat game.The space combat in this game doesn't feel anything like Trek.The range is to close and the torps are to slow as well as the tractot beam doesn't work right.
The ground combat feel a lot like Trek.
You surely haven't watched the same Trek as I did. In the Trek I saw, they don't use armor, turret, mines, personal shield, and their phaser insta kill/stun a target. Except on some "immune" target, like adapted borg.
In this game, you can spawn turret, use armor and shield, and need several shoot from an away team to kill something.
I was going to qoute some posters, but rather than be tedious:
To the "OMG play in shooter mode or you stink" guy: WRONG!
I can safely say that the VAST majority of fail players I encounter in ground missions are playing in shooter mode. You can MISS in shooter mode, you can only shoot what you are facing etc. etc. etc. READ THE INFORMATION on shooter mode. It may seem really cool to you if you are used to playing FPS games, but in THIS game it makes you a liability to your team, unless you are just an epic player in the first place. Even then, learn to play in RPG mode and you will be more epic. (need I even mention the shooter mode guys who blindly fire for no reason, causing an enemy group to become aggro while the rest of the team is trying to get set up properly for a strategic attack?)
I personally enjoy the ground game but will definitely add support to the many posters that ask for it to have more than just "shoot this" shoot that" objectives. Sadly I do not think the game engine actually allows for multiple possible outcomes, but that would be a great start to making ground more interesting.
That said, my personal pet peave about STO in general, the cumbersome "need -vs- greed" looting system is massively irritating on ground, even more so than in space. It should not require six key clicks to resolve one item of loot. (one click from the person who "takes items" and one from each team member to choose need/greed/pass) I think going to a simple true autoloot with random distribution system would be an incredible enhancement to ground combat. (hate it in space too, but in space it is a lot easier to ignore until you have time to pick it up)
I also would like to see a little more attention made to putting safeguards against bugginess like spawning in to rocks, getting stuck etc. by the dev team.
I don't know what Trek you watched, but in the TV series' I watched, the ships were a lot closer than we get in this game. Sometimes they were clearly hundreds of meters apart at most.
YES! And Picard used "Ramming Speed" at least once.
For me, it's because ground combat isn't any different from any other MMO out there, and quite honestly, other MMOs do ground combat better. In STO, I have at most a dozen abilities on the ground and very few tactical options, and enemies just aren't particularly interesting or challenging. The only reason I play ground combat at all is because it's Star Trek, and even then, that'll only get me through a ground mission once or twice before I never want to play it again. If all of STO was like ground combat, I'd have quit playing years ago because other games are more compelling.
Space combat is what sets STO apart from all the other MMOs. No game I've ever encountered has anything like it. It''s a refreshing change from all the other space combat games that are basically just first-person shooters in space or Star Fox clones. I love the slow movement, the tactical forethought, the power management, the huge array of options in customizing my abilities. I love that the focus is on capital ship combat, not one-man fighter combat. The AI could be better, but I find some enemy groups like Romulans and Tholians pretty challenging, even after playing this game for three years.
Actually I've yet to see any other MMO with STO's mechanics. The squad-based build, heavily fluid combat and lack of a holy trinity is quite unique. Also, this is one of only two games I've ever seen where buffs/debuffs are given a good treatment and can rule. The other is no longer around.
Using flanking, combining expose and exploits, and dodging out of hazard patches (plasma fire or grenades) while trying to hold the enemy inside your hazards (mortars, hyperionic radiation, etc) is very fun and as I said, not something I've seen anywhere else.
In WOW only the rogue and variants (druid in cat form etc) get flanking, here everyone and it is a significant boost to damage. In 99% of games, battles come down to tank-and-spank strategies where the enemy and one player stand still and everyone else spams the same one or two powers over and over for a few minutes until it is dead. Here, boss fights have people moving in circles to flank or dodge, moving using every power they have, cycling weapons and using temp powers.
If you know of games that play like this please give me a recommendation.
What I would REALLY like is if we could bring squads to group things. Or even just one guy, like on New Romulus, but in an action not just encountering others wandering around randomly.
The AI seems to have improved anyhow, they don't fiddle with their frequency rotators all the time now. Never see them play with it when not fighting Borg.
I'm a bit late to this thread, but please add my voice as one that does not hate ground combat. In fact, it's ground combat that's kept me interested in this game.
I enjoyed ground combat before season 4, but that season was a major boost to my enjoyment. I've put in a lot of time training, equipping and grouping my boffs. I only run ground missions on elite and love the challenge of taking down mobs which feature commander/captain level baddies. The unlockable missions on New Romulus have been some of the most challenging yet. The unlock missions are the only aspect of the reputation system that keeps me coming back, and looking forward to new reputation based factions.
Comments
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
I was doing a mission where I get sucked into a wormhole and have to board my captor's ship.
In the first room, the dribbling muck puppets who call themselves officers of the federation manage to pull THREE waves of enemies at once, while falling into the lowered area and running up the stairs repeatedly. One of them dies, then when all the fighting is over, my idiot Starfleet Academy laureates decides the enemies trapped behind the force fields (Klingon Targs in this case) had to be aggressively walked at! So they run up and hump the force field while the Targs just stand there and look at them! I never actually GET OUT of combat because of this, and have to do the entire freaking mission with only 3 of my Commodore 64-level drones to help me.
Space is great, because I never have a "friendly" neanderthal AI to mess up what I'm doing.
bloodpact.net
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."
-Michelangelo
And by saying that, Space combat is much more fun for me, but the odd Ground combat can go a treat as well. User Preff.
I hate ground because the A.I. is the worst I've seen in any game since pre-1990. And I mean that. The NPCs are a bunch of lobotomized gutter monkeys.
I was doing a mission where I get sucked into a wormhole and have to board my captor's ship.
In the first room, the dribbling muck puppets who call themselves officers of the federation manage to pull THREE waves of enemies at once, while falling into the lowered area and running up the stairs repeatedly. One of them dies, then when all the fighting is over, my idiot Starfleet Academy laureates decides the enemies trapped behind the force fields (Klingon Targs in this case) had to be aggressively walked at! So they run up and hump the force field while the Targs just stand there and look at them! I never actually GET OUT of combat because of this, and have to do the entire freaking mission with only 3 of my Commodore 64-level drones to help me.
Space is great, because I never have a "friendly" neanderthal AI to mess up what I'm doing.
bloodpact.net
"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."
-Michelangelo
2.bad pathing (fire caves)
3.Boffs dont know how to stay out of the fire(plasma,cold)
4.grenades thrown tend to blow up in my face(grenades ive thrown)
5.Boffs/enemies fall through floors/ground
6.Transporting from one place to another leaves my boffs behind(replaying Azure rescue)
id post more but cant think of any, havent played since the 31st of December.
Add about 10 new ground sets to the game, and make 4 or 5 of them mission reward sets so everyone can get them. Then I think ground combat won't suck so much anymore.
The ground AI needs some major work, any abilities/devices they can use seem randomly applied. Buff damage and attack? nope, buff damage and use fire extinguisher 7 times in a row? Right. The AI has no clue what anything does or how to use it, its really sad.
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Nothing to do anymore.
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They always used cover on the show. The lack of a cover system is silly.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
also it felt more like your useualy third person grinder.
- The pathing is still bad, they run into walls and objects still, the "fix" was to just give them super jumping powers so the LEAP over stuff, but it's still BAD. The just need to figure out how to get the officers to walk around stuff.
- The agro mechanics is out of control, the pull when the are not supposed to, possibly this could be a quick UI fix to have keybinds for 'passive', 'agressive', 'defend', etc.
I suggest adding toggle on/off formation commands to the UI such as
- 'line abreast' for wide open areas
- 'single file' for closed-quarters fighting and navigating tight areas
- 'wedge' for general purpose
- 'regroup' for a huddle on the captain to reorganize if/when they go crazy in an extended combat
- 'take cover' run to an area with no enemies, so they don't pull more agro, but also has objects/walls inbetween to diliberately break enemy LOS. - ok, this one could be damn hard to code, but this is supposed to be a modern game after all.
Also, they should just revive the captain if he/she is down without asking for help, or an option for on/off.
For me, it's because ground combat isn't any different from any other MMO out there, and quite honestly, other MMOs do ground combat better. In STO, I have at most a dozen abilities on the ground and very few tactical options, and enemies just aren't particularly interesting or challenging. The only reason I play ground combat at all is because it's Star Trek, and even then, that'll only get me through a ground mission once or twice before I never want to play it again. If all of STO was like ground combat, I'd have quit playing years ago because other games are more compelling.
Space combat is what sets STO apart from all the other MMOs. No game I've ever encountered has anything like it. It''s a refreshing change from all the other space combat games that are basically just first-person shooters in space or Star Fox clones. I love the slow movement, the tactical forethought, the power management, the huge array of options in customizing my abilities. I love that the focus is on capital ship combat, not one-man fighter combat. The AI could be better, but I find some enemy groups like Romulans and Tholians pretty challenging, even after playing this game for three years.
The ground combat feel a lot like Trek.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
We saw them shooting around corners, over crates, etc.
Assault Cruiser Refit U.S.S Crown Royal
Multi-Vector Adv. Escort U.S.S Crown Royal-B
Heavy Escort Carrier U.S.S. Crown Royal-C
Oddy Tac. Cruiser U.S.S. Beam Boat
Having 20+ people attack a boss at the same time is awesome and its a shame nothing in any of the ground STFs feels as good as throwing snowballs at snowman.
You can run through some plants and not others.
You can get stuck on stuff.
PvE enemies only attack you, walking over your BOffs to get to you.
PvP it's all about the knockback. Once on your but, you will soon be dead.
The never ending Romulans: You drop one Rom only to have him raised by a medic the fully healed of both shield and life energy.
In short the medic was allways the first to die.
The Darha Master who did over 1,500 points with a batlith.
The Sword Master who did over 1,000 points with a batlith.
Borg drones that would beam in more drones so you in the end had to kill 10 drones to end a mission.
I don't know what Trek you watched, but in the TV series' I watched, the ships were a lot closer than we get in this game. Sometimes they were clearly hundreds of meters apart at most.
In this game, you can spawn turret, use armor and shield, and need several shoot from an away team to kill something.
To the "OMG play in shooter mode or you stink" guy: WRONG!
I can safely say that the VAST majority of fail players I encounter in ground missions are playing in shooter mode. You can MISS in shooter mode, you can only shoot what you are facing etc. etc. etc. READ THE INFORMATION on shooter mode. It may seem really cool to you if you are used to playing FPS games, but in THIS game it makes you a liability to your team, unless you are just an epic player in the first place. Even then, learn to play in RPG mode and you will be more epic. (need I even mention the shooter mode guys who blindly fire for no reason, causing an enemy group to become aggro while the rest of the team is trying to get set up properly for a strategic attack?)
I personally enjoy the ground game but will definitely add support to the many posters that ask for it to have more than just "shoot this" shoot that" objectives. Sadly I do not think the game engine actually allows for multiple possible outcomes, but that would be a great start to making ground more interesting.
That said, my personal pet peave about STO in general, the cumbersome "need -vs- greed" looting system is massively irritating on ground, even more so than in space. It should not require six key clicks to resolve one item of loot. (one click from the person who "takes items" and one from each team member to choose need/greed/pass) I think going to a simple true autoloot with random distribution system would be an incredible enhancement to ground combat. (hate it in space too, but in space it is a lot easier to ignore until you have time to pick it up)
I also would like to see a little more attention made to putting safeguards against bugginess like spawning in to rocks, getting stuck etc. by the dev team.
in STO 30 phaser hits kill
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Actually I've yet to see any other MMO with STO's mechanics. The squad-based build, heavily fluid combat and lack of a holy trinity is quite unique. Also, this is one of only two games I've ever seen where buffs/debuffs are given a good treatment and can rule. The other is no longer around.
Using flanking, combining expose and exploits, and dodging out of hazard patches (plasma fire or grenades) while trying to hold the enemy inside your hazards (mortars, hyperionic radiation, etc) is very fun and as I said, not something I've seen anywhere else.
In WOW only the rogue and variants (druid in cat form etc) get flanking, here everyone and it is a significant boost to damage. In 99% of games, battles come down to tank-and-spank strategies where the enemy and one player stand still and everyone else spams the same one or two powers over and over for a few minutes until it is dead. Here, boss fights have people moving in circles to flank or dodge, moving using every power they have, cycling weapons and using temp powers.
If you know of games that play like this please give me a recommendation.
What I would REALLY like is if we could bring squads to group things. Or even just one guy, like on New Romulus, but in an action not just encountering others wandering around randomly.
The AI seems to have improved anyhow, they don't fiddle with their frequency rotators all the time now. Never see them play with it when not fighting Borg.
I enjoyed ground combat before season 4, but that season was a major boost to my enjoyment. I've put in a lot of time training, equipping and grouping my boffs. I only run ground missions on elite and love the challenge of taking down mobs which feature commander/captain level baddies. The unlockable missions on New Romulus have been some of the most challenging yet. The unlock missions are the only aspect of the reputation system that keeps me coming back, and looking forward to new reputation based factions.