I don't know what Trek you watched, but in the TV series' I watched, the ships were a lot closer than we get in this game. Sometimes they were clearly hundreds of meters apart at most.
I have seen lots of times in ToS where Kirks ship is firing it phasers and torps further out than you can tell.I can't recall the episode in where Kirk is firng a Rom BoP that is cloaked with it phasers which is more than 10km from the Enterprise.
This will tell you the range of the photons which can travel aat warp speeds
This is why it is not a good idea for Picard to be so close to Rom Warbird as it will crush the Enterprise D with a few hits of its plasma torps.It would be wise if he were further out past 10 km more like 10,000km and fire at range.
btw I ma more of Kirk fan ToS/TMP era.I do like Sisko though.
I would like to the range extended further out in this game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I like ground missions, or more precisely, the idea of ground missions. As they are, they aren't fluid enough. Currently it feels like a 3rd person shooter that suffers from framerate issues, even in "B" mode.
Time is a funny thing; There is always too much of it. Except when you need it the most, then there is never enough.
You surely haven't watched the same Trek as I did. In the Trek I saw, they don't use armor, turret, mines, personal shield, and their phaser insta kill/stun a target. Except on some "immune" target, like adapted borg.
In this game, you can spawn turret, use armor and shield, and need several shoot from an away team to kill something.
This. Space feels more like Trek than ground, but even then it's really iffy.
... shooter mode... ... in THIS game it makes you a liability to your team, unless you are just an epic player in the first place.
Or maybe the reversed is true if people really can't shoot anything without autoaim ?
I put a warrent out on a key setup that would be cost efficient many posts ago.
Having to move you fingers more in rpg mode and use "un-intuitive" controls, such as shooting with the "1" key make it awkward, clumsy and slow.
The wasd-configuration is standard in most games for a reason.
I also invited people to come play and let me see the rpg player in action and vice versa, I am not completely shut down to the idea it's possible in a slow environment.
That aside I don't know why you would want automation of your game. I take pride in training my speed, precision and what not in any game - becoming a better fighter is a core part of fighting.
What would really be the point of letting the script do an autohit I just don't feel it.
Where is the excitement in taking a shot if you know it's going to land.
You say you have to be an elite player to play in shooter mode and in that case I see your point. If you really can't play without autoaim what choice you got.
You surely haven't watched the same Trek as I did. In the Trek I saw, they don't use armor, turret, mines, personal shield, and their phaser insta kill/stun a target. Except on some "immune" target, like adapted borg.
In this game, you can spawn turret, use armor and shield, and need several shoot from an away team to kill something.
I have to and no they didn't use armour,turrets and mines in ground combat but this is an rpg and in those you get skills.I imagine it is the ship that is replicating it for you from what you choose to use on your kit.
It is nice to have change in pace from space to ground especially since space doesn't have the real effects of it.I will say this that Starfleet Command has the real effects of space combat as it can last for hours if you want it to.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
That aside I don't know why you would want automation of your game. I take pride in training my speed, precision and what not in any game - becoming a better fighter is a core part of fighting.
So, MMOFPS is the only genre that requires tuning of skills ? :rolleyes:
I can think of very few games that don't require reaction time, co-ordination, precision and what not.
And autoaim in game is certainly on that list. I don't know how it makes sense to you but I play games to do something - not to watch something, if the game plays itself what is the point.
Of course that includes as much user control as possible but as said before if people really need the autoaim it's at least great the feature is there for them to use.
So, MMOFPS is the only genre that requires tuning of skills ? :rolleyes:
I can think of very few games that don't require reaction time, co-ordination, precision and what not.
And autoaim in game is certainly on that list. I don't know how it makes sense to you but I play games to do something - not to watch something, if the game plays itself what is the point.
Of course that includes as much user control as possible but as said before if people really need the autoaim it's at least great the feature is there for them to use.
Have you played Tekken? Lots of people talk down about it being a "button mashing" game. Well... it takes skill to actually be good at it.
Honestly my growing up with Tekken instead of Halo might be why I like the ground combat controls.
So, MMOFPS is the only genre that requires tuning of skills ?
Let's cut to the chase. http://youtu.be/Fb90FBLfPBA
As far as ground combat goes beats STO in every conceivable way and a few ways that haven't been conceived yet.
I am not actually cussing STO, but using shooter controls in an inferior engine is like driving a Ferrari only in 1st gear. You can't gain respect for nerfing yourself.
There was a thread for playing this game with joypads a while back!
---
Ok, my opinion is as already said: in Space, STO would do almost as well as a single-player game, it works and is quite fun, but ground combat doesn't share the dynamic cut-and-thrust between near-death and life as can be seen in space.
A part of this is that only the science officer actually makes a good tank because he can heal reliably while the engineer and tactical officers have very limited options (although the engi has excellent tools to help). Yes taking cover would help but maps aren't designed for this (as say Gears of War or the Halo series encourage) and the enemy Ai will chase you so the best option is to deploy something else to draw aggro and flee the scene.
Ultimately, the devs have a hard time balancing the RPG aspect of the game (the "holy trinity") with third person shooter conventions.
Drink one shot for ever time someone complains about realism in Star Trek.
Drink two shots if they don't know what "fiction" is.
Planetside looks like a HALO knock-off. Seriously... It didn't look interesting to me at all, and I saw nothing in that ad that made me think it had better combat than STO.
Anyways, I play ground combat pretty much the same way I did Tekken, just with more buttons and less supercomboes.
Please do, I didn't see any points or examples being made, so perhaps in your next post...
Like I said, having to move your hands around between keys, and in clumsy un-natural combos at that, is not cost efficient.
If that is an unfair assessment I'd love to see a key bind that is as straight forward as classic wasd-configuration.
Just like I'd love to play with whoever is ready to prove that in you in rpg mode have even remotely the same fluency aswell.
But all that aside, even if it were I'd actually like to control my game, that's sort of my whole reason for playing it.
Please do, I didn't see any points or examples being made, so perhaps in your next post...
Like I said, having to move your hands around between keys, and in clumsy un-natural combos at that, is not cost efficient.
If that is an unfair assessment I'd love to see a key bind that is as straight forward as classic wasd-configuration.
Just like I'd love to play with whoever is ready to prove that in you in rpg mode have even remotely the same fluency aswell.
But all that aside, even if it were I'd actually like to control my game, that's sort of my whole reason for playing it.
Other than using WASD and the numeric keypad? I don't move my left hand from WASD unless I have a reason to stand still. I don't NEED to. i can do all of my weapon attacks devices and skill with the keypad controlled by my right hand.
Yeah, I use the defaults of 1, 2 for fire and alt fire, and the other keys for various other combats skills. Such as having photon grenade on 3, etc... Some of the skills I use less often are linked to Ctrl+ a number but not the commonly used ones.
However, I HATE remodulation from the depth of my heart, which is why I do not play ground STFs. The Borg adaptation concept has to be rethought (and don't play the "It's canon"-card now, 'cause then the whole game would have to be turned upside down :P).
However, I HATE remodulation from the depth of my heart, which is why I do not play ground STFs. The Borg adaptation concept has to be rethought (and don't play the "It's canon"-card now, 'cause then the whole game would have to be turned upside down :P).
I usually do like Worf and check to see if they can adapt to stabbity death.
recently i macro'd my 1,2 keys to a button on my flight controller. i always use the arrows to move and the numpad for abilities. Since i really hate the shooter mode I use the rpg mode and it all works just fine for me. Actually i've grown to enjoy ground combat since the macro idea hit me...too bad it took a year lol.
I actually like ground combat. I too use the WASD keys except when I am in the Pwer Plant on Defera. There I use the arrow keys to move and then the 1,2,3 for attacks. I play on a laptop without a keypad so I am going to have to come up with something to become more efficient.
Does anybody use mouse steering? I have never been used to full keyboard move and action. I use tab for cycling through targets and the key above it for closest target.
Borg remodulation is a drag. I use melee combat. That is actually good. There are several combo's and they hit hard against the borg. Animations are also nice.
I would like to have a baseball bat for hitting the borg. The ferengi whip is no good. The borg adapt and it has a pushback; you don't want that when you are in melee.
It would be cool if when fighting the borg a limb would come off or something.
Does anybody use mouse steering? I have never been used to full keyboard move and action. I use tab for cycling through targets and the key above it for closest target.
Borg remodulation is a drag. I use melee combat. That is actually good. There are several combo's and they hit hard against the borg. Animations are also nice.
I would like to have a baseball bat for hitting the borg. The ferengi whip is no good. The borg adapt and it has a pushback; you don't want that when you are in melee.
It would be cool if when fighting the borg a limb would come off or something.
I've never really tried it on ground.
For keyboards without a numeric pad, you could probably assign the -=[];'./ keys to do something similar.
i like ground stf.
But hate ground pvp. it are mostly tactical players killing others with 1 hit. I don't get why devs made such pvp, cause it is no pvp.
It's more balanced then space pvp and pve , the animations are nice , powers seem to respond better then in space (where u have to click a power twice sometimes to get it to respond) , and there isn't something new coming out every two weeks that breaks/bugs/OP's everything -- like it happens in space combat .
I also like that there are "roles" to play .
W/one kit a Tac can boost himself , or w/another kit can boost his team .
An Eng can use kits to put generator/turrets or to jam any & all players .
A sci can heal himself rapidly (and become a far deadlier toon than a Tac) or can "cast offensive spells" .
The long list of QQ's in this thread are from players who have not tried different kits/toons/builds .
I also read a lot of responses from ppl who frankly do not seem to know how good they have it now ... -- meaning that we have a number of options that Cryptic have yet to TRIBBLE up !
I just hope that there will be some care on Cryptic's part when introducing additional kits , so that ground combat does not get a variant of the OP Bug ship .
Does anybody use mouse steering? I have never been used to full keyboard move and action. I use tab for cycling through targets and the key above it for closest target.
I use both at the same time. I move with the wasd keys and I change my camera view almost constantly with my mouse. From time to time I do maneuver with the mouse a little. Especially for longdistance travel.
1: 100% hit rate - BAD, I want to miss them sometimes, especially when my guy gas been hit and is now aiming at the ceiling. It's kind of silly that regardless of what direction I'm facing, whether there is a crate in between us or not, I can ALWAYS hit whatever I'm targeting.
2: AI stupidity - First off, I say give all the enemy NPCs (and friendly ones for that matter) glasses so they can see farther then their own noses! Right now it seems to be like "Hey look, Bob's squad is getting torn to ribbons! Let's sit back an watch."
Second, I'd like to see AIs NOT getting stuck on every rock in the sodding game. I don't know how many times I've had to spend 5 minutes trying to get someone unstuck in cargo bays or other object-filled areas.
3: Cover - Kind of related to the accuracy thing, but I like the boxes my AIs get stuck on all the time to actually be good for something other than annoying me.
4: Abilities - Right now, it seems like most of the abilities are kind of useless. Grenades are less than effective since by the time the thing explodes I've already shot everything due to the lack of cover and the accuracy "issues". Turrets are useless for the same reason, and that there are almost no "defend this point" missions, not that I mind since the lack of AI skill would make that far too easy. So the only thing I ever find myself using are the buffs and de-buffs, most of which are "cast" by the science officer.
5: Melee - I actually like the way melee LOOKS right now. It's really pretty. However, it ACTS really clunky and awkward, with no real way of blocking or even dodging enemy blows without ending up out of range of the target. Also the fact that melee is so targeted is really annoying since it makes it much harder to fluidly switch targets in the middle of a battle.
6: Story Design - This one applies to space as well. Every, single, story seems to be "Go here and murder everything within 2 light-years of you." I mean, considering you're technically at peace with the Romulans, you kill almost as many of them as you do Klingons. I'd hate to see what would happen if they were at war with the federation...
7: Other Issues - A few other issues I have with ground combat, the re-modulation when fighting Borg is one of the most annoying things ever, especially when coupled with the fact they are shooting you the entire time.
Also the use of ridiculous numbers of enemies to constitute a challenge is probably why most people dislike ground combat. I can't imagine that there are any citizens left in the Klingon Empire after the campaign regarding them is concluded, so what exactly do the other 20,000 players out there fight? It also makes these missions painfully tedious.
One last thing, the linear manner in which maps are designed makes long, tedious missions uninteresting as well, since they simply involve moving down a corridor while shooting everything else there. Alternate routes to complete a mission, and perhaps some semi-destructible environments, would make missions far more entertaining.
Now, just so I don't sound like I'm complaining too much, have some solutions (order same as above):
1: Either some random miss chance (like in space combat) or some player-controlled aiming system. (3rd person shooter style)
2: Kind of self explanatory really, improve general AI intelligence & behavior. In regards to the lack of support between enemy units, perhaps some sort of line-of-sight & sound radius systems could be added. So if an enemy sees you in front of them they will start shooting, while if you sneak up behind them they won't notice you. Also if you start shooting nearby they should be able to hear the weapons fire and come to investigate. Also, perhaps if you get involved in a protracted fight with the enemy they will call in nearby squads for support.
3: Basically, make it possible to hide behind elements in the environment, obscuring you from sight and therefore making it impossible to shoot you directly.
4: Most existing abilities would work tolerably well if some method of protracting fights were introduced. (as seen above)
5: A few extra options, and get rid of the targeting system when attacking in melee...
6: I'm positive there's enough community feedback on this one already, some of which is from myself. :P
7:Most of these are self explanatory, like reduced re-modulation time for weapons, or at least get rid of borg ranged weapons. Also improved AI makes the excessive number of AI unnecessary.
Comments
I have seen lots of times in ToS where Kirks ship is firing it phasers and torps further out than you can tell.I can't recall the episode in where Kirk is firng a Rom BoP that is cloaked with it phasers which is more than 10km from the Enterprise.
This will tell you the range of the photons which can travel aat warp speeds
http://www.ussenterprise.co.uk/enterprise/ent/
This is why it is not a good idea for Picard to be so close to Rom Warbird as it will crush the Enterprise D with a few hits of its plasma torps.It would be wise if he were further out past 10 km more like 10,000km and fire at range.
btw I ma more of Kirk fan ToS/TMP era.I do like Sisko though.
I would like to the range extended further out in this game.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
My character Tsin'xing
This. Space feels more like Trek than ground, but even then it's really iffy.
Or maybe the reversed is true if people really can't shoot anything without autoaim ?
I put a warrent out on a key setup that would be cost efficient many posts ago.
Having to move you fingers more in rpg mode and use "un-intuitive" controls, such as shooting with the "1" key make it awkward, clumsy and slow.
The wasd-configuration is standard in most games for a reason.
I also invited people to come play and let me see the rpg player in action and vice versa, I am not completely shut down to the idea it's possible in a slow environment.
That aside I don't know why you would want automation of your game. I take pride in training my speed, precision and what not in any game - becoming a better fighter is a core part of fighting.
What would really be the point of letting the script do an autohit I just don't feel it.
Where is the excitement in taking a shot if you know it's going to land.
You say you have to be an elite player to play in shooter mode and in that case I see your point. If you really can't play without autoaim what choice you got.
I have to and no they didn't use armour,turrets and mines in ground combat but this is an rpg and in those you get skills.I imagine it is the ship that is replicating it for you from what you choose to use on your kit.
It is nice to have change in pace from space to ground especially since space doesn't have the real effects of it.I will say this that Starfleet Command has the real effects of space combat as it can last for hours if you want it to.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
@ Vest: Like I said before, i use one hand to move and the other to shoot and activate skills.
My character Tsin'xing
Wrong genre. This isn't an MMOFPS.
I do love the pseudo-lightsabres in this game, however.
Drink one shot for ever time someone complains about realism in Star Trek.
Drink two shots if they don't know what "fiction" is.
I can think of very few games that don't require reaction time, co-ordination, precision and what not.
And autoaim in game is certainly on that list. I don't know how it makes sense to you but I play games to do something - not to watch something, if the game plays itself what is the point.
Of course that includes as much user control as possible but as said before if people really need the autoaim it's at least great the feature is there for them to use.
Honestly my growing up with Tekken instead of Halo might be why I like the ground combat controls.
My character Tsin'xing
http://youtu.be/Fb90FBLfPBA
As far as ground combat goes beats STO in every conceivable way and a few ways that haven't been conceived yet.
I am not actually cussing STO, but using shooter controls in an inferior engine is like driving a Ferrari only in 1st gear. You can't gain respect for nerfing yourself.
There was a thread for playing this game with joypads a while back!
---
Ok, my opinion is as already said: in Space, STO would do almost as well as a single-player game, it works and is quite fun, but ground combat doesn't share the dynamic cut-and-thrust between near-death and life as can be seen in space.
A part of this is that only the science officer actually makes a good tank because he can heal reliably while the engineer and tactical officers have very limited options (although the engi has excellent tools to help). Yes taking cover would help but maps aren't designed for this (as say Gears of War or the Halo series encourage) and the enemy Ai will chase you so the best option is to deploy something else to draw aggro and flee the scene.
Ultimately, the devs have a hard time balancing the RPG aspect of the game (the "holy trinity") with third person shooter conventions.
Drink one shot for ever time someone complains about realism in Star Trek.
Drink two shots if they don't know what "fiction" is.
Anyways, I play ground combat pretty much the same way I did Tekken, just with more buttons and less supercomboes.
My character Tsin'xing
Please do, I didn't see any points or examples being made, so perhaps in your next post...
Like I said, having to move your hands around between keys, and in clumsy un-natural combos at that, is not cost efficient.
If that is an unfair assessment I'd love to see a key bind that is as straight forward as classic wasd-configuration.
Just like I'd love to play with whoever is ready to prove that in you in rpg mode have even remotely the same fluency aswell.
But all that aside, even if it were I'd actually like to control my game, that's sort of my whole reason for playing it.
L2P
www.divisionhispana.com
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
However, I HATE remodulation from the depth of my heart, which is why I do not play ground STFs. The Borg adaptation concept has to be rethought (and don't play the "It's canon"-card now, 'cause then the whole game would have to be turned upside down :P).
STOWiki admin.
My character Tsin'xing
Borg remodulation is a drag. I use melee combat. That is actually good. There are several combo's and they hit hard against the borg. Animations are also nice.
I would like to have a baseball bat for hitting the borg. The ferengi whip is no good. The borg adapt and it has a pushback; you don't want that when you are in melee.
It would be cool if when fighting the borg a limb would come off or something.
Drink one shot for ever time someone complains about realism in Star Trek.
Drink two shots if they don't know what "fiction" is.
For keyboards without a numeric pad, you could probably assign the -=[];'./ keys to do something similar.
My character Tsin'xing
But hate ground pvp. it are mostly tactical players killing others with 1 hit. I don't get why devs made such pvp, cause it is no pvp.
It's more balanced then space pvp and pve , the animations are nice , powers seem to respond better then in space (where u have to click a power twice sometimes to get it to respond) , and there isn't something new coming out every two weeks that breaks/bugs/OP's everything -- like it happens in space combat .
I also like that there are "roles" to play .
W/one kit a Tac can boost himself , or w/another kit can boost his team .
An Eng can use kits to put generator/turrets or to jam any & all players .
A sci can heal himself rapidly (and become a far deadlier toon than a Tac) or can "cast offensive spells"
The long list of QQ's in this thread are from players who have not tried different kits/toons/builds .
I also read a lot of responses from ppl who frankly do not seem to know how good they have it now ... -- meaning that we have a number of options that Cryptic have yet to TRIBBLE up !
I just hope that there will be some care on Cryptic's part when introducing additional kits , so that ground combat does not get a variant of the OP Bug ship .
I use both at the same time. I move with the wasd keys and I change my camera view almost constantly with my mouse. From time to time I do maneuver with the mouse a little. Especially for longdistance travel.
1: 100% hit rate - BAD, I want to miss them sometimes, especially when my guy gas been hit and is now aiming at the ceiling. It's kind of silly that regardless of what direction I'm facing, whether there is a crate in between us or not, I can ALWAYS hit whatever I'm targeting.
2: AI stupidity - First off, I say give all the enemy NPCs (and friendly ones for that matter) glasses so they can see farther then their own noses! Right now it seems to be like "Hey look, Bob's squad is getting torn to ribbons! Let's sit back an watch."
Second, I'd like to see AIs NOT getting stuck on every rock in the sodding game. I don't know how many times I've had to spend 5 minutes trying to get someone unstuck in cargo bays or other object-filled areas.
3: Cover - Kind of related to the accuracy thing, but I like the boxes my AIs get stuck on all the time to actually be good for something other than annoying me.
4: Abilities - Right now, it seems like most of the abilities are kind of useless. Grenades are less than effective since by the time the thing explodes I've already shot everything due to the lack of cover and the accuracy "issues". Turrets are useless for the same reason, and that there are almost no "defend this point" missions, not that I mind since the lack of AI skill would make that far too easy. So the only thing I ever find myself using are the buffs and de-buffs, most of which are "cast" by the science officer.
5: Melee - I actually like the way melee LOOKS right now. It's really pretty. However, it ACTS really clunky and awkward, with no real way of blocking or even dodging enemy blows without ending up out of range of the target. Also the fact that melee is so targeted is really annoying since it makes it much harder to fluidly switch targets in the middle of a battle.
6: Story Design - This one applies to space as well. Every, single, story seems to be "Go here and murder everything within 2 light-years of you." I mean, considering you're technically at peace with the Romulans, you kill almost as many of them as you do Klingons. I'd hate to see what would happen if they were at war with the federation...
7: Other Issues - A few other issues I have with ground combat, the re-modulation when fighting Borg is one of the most annoying things ever, especially when coupled with the fact they are shooting you the entire time.
Also the use of ridiculous numbers of enemies to constitute a challenge is probably why most people dislike ground combat. I can't imagine that there are any citizens left in the Klingon Empire after the campaign regarding them is concluded, so what exactly do the other 20,000 players out there fight? It also makes these missions painfully tedious.
One last thing, the linear manner in which maps are designed makes long, tedious missions uninteresting as well, since they simply involve moving down a corridor while shooting everything else there. Alternate routes to complete a mission, and perhaps some semi-destructible environments, would make missions far more entertaining.
Now, just so I don't sound like I'm complaining too much, have some solutions (order same as above):
1: Either some random miss chance (like in space combat) or some player-controlled aiming system. (3rd person shooter style)
2: Kind of self explanatory really, improve general AI intelligence & behavior. In regards to the lack of support between enemy units, perhaps some sort of line-of-sight & sound radius systems could be added. So if an enemy sees you in front of them they will start shooting, while if you sneak up behind them they won't notice you. Also if you start shooting nearby they should be able to hear the weapons fire and come to investigate. Also, perhaps if you get involved in a protracted fight with the enemy they will call in nearby squads for support.
3: Basically, make it possible to hide behind elements in the environment, obscuring you from sight and therefore making it impossible to shoot you directly.
4: Most existing abilities would work tolerably well if some method of protracting fights were introduced. (as seen above)
5: A few extra options, and get rid of the targeting system when attacking in melee...
6: I'm positive there's enough community feedback on this one already, some of which is from myself. :P
7:Most of these are self explanatory, like reduced re-modulation time for weapons, or at least get rid of borg ranged weapons. Also improved AI makes the excessive number of AI unnecessary.