Like I just pointed out and illustrated moving of any kind in rpg mode is clumsy, slow and awkward... the slow speed you move at alone is a huge dis-advantage - you simply will not be able to turn as fast as people in shooter mode.
I think what you are confusing here is shooter mode and aim mode, it's the only way what you just said makes any kind of sense.
When you are in rpg mode and hit "a" to start turning your camera and simply will not go as fast as moving your mouse twitch style.
But, that would be true for aim mode versus shooter mode.
You might live through a stf in rpg as a sci with a med kit and a stack of hypo's but it's an outside chance.
Huh? I only use RPG mode, and I live through STFs all the time. Not only live, but actually do very well. It's shooter mode that gets me killed because I can't see my surroundings.
When you are in rpg mode and hit "a" to start turning your camera and simply will not go as fast as moving your mouse twitch style.
But, that would be true for aim mode versus shooter mode.
I don't hit 'a' to turn. I use the mouse. Works just fine. Plus, I can shoot in one direction, and turn camera in another. Can't do that in shooter mode. And I find that activating your powers quickly is clumsy in shooter mode.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
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Like I just pointed out and illustrated moving of any kind in rpg mode is clumsy, slow and awkward... the slow speed you move at alone is a huge dis-advantage - you simply will not be able to turn as fast as people in shooter mode.
I think what you are confusing here is shooter mode and aim mode, it's the only way what you just said makes any kind of sense.
When you are in rpg mode and hit "a" to start turning your camera and simply will not go as fast as moving your mouse twitch style.
But, that would be true for aim mode versus shooter mode.
You can turn your camera and character with the mouse in RPG mode, too. Your character also automatically turns to face its target while attacking.
You also get a greater field of vision in RPG mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
might be different if you were raised and trained on FPS and can't think in three dimensions of course
Because all fps'ers you played were in 2D ?
they are ALL "indoor building" with one useable route and looking down the barrel of your improbably large gun
(Quake , Warzone , Battlefront and So on)
two dimensional thinking
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
its possible to go ROUND ..by running and jumping
Like I just pointed out and illustrated moving of any kind in rpg mode is clumsy, slow and awkward... the slow speed you move at alone is a huge dis-advantage - you simply will not be able to turn as fast as people in shooter mode.
Erm ?????????????????????????????? Say WHAT??????????????
in shooter mode you can barely move let alone safely jump
I think what you are confusing here is shooter mode and aim mode, it's the only way what you just said makes any kind of sense.
I think you may be on default keys or moving via mouse
When you are in rpg mode and hit "a" to start turning your camera and simply will not go as fast as moving your mouse twitch style.
But, that would be true for aim mode versus shooter mode.
Why would I need to turn my camera?
I have "Eyes of the Hawk" mode
im watching from above and behind
Like I just pointed out and illustrated moving of any kind in rpg mode is clumsy, slow and awkward... the slow speed you move at alone is a huge dis-advantage - you simply will not be able to turn as fast as people in shooter mode.
I think what you are confusing here is shooter mode and aim mode, it's the only way what you just said makes any kind of sense.
When you are in rpg mode and hit "a" to start turning your camera and simply will not go as fast as moving your mouse twitch style.
But, that would be true for aim mode versus shooter mode.
RPG mode can be, and I find is usually just as fast as shooter mode. Step one is of course, to use the mouse to turn the camera. Step two is to use the tab key to lock the target as soon as it comes within range, which is before a shooter mode could get it in the sights since I just ahve to get it one the screen. Step three, hit the fire key. Step four against live opponents is to run all over the place since I'm locked on and don't have to worry about keeping lined up. In PvE, I just start running behind the target so that I or one of my team can get a shot against the side or rear. I'm not a twitch player, but all else being equal, I am willing to bet that I could keep up with any shooter mode player in RPG mode. Of course, all in my perosnal opinion.
As for cover, I'm not talking about hiding behind walls, bugged damage or not, thats not taking cover. I'm talking about going up to a wall, and being able to shoot while still gaining some bonus for being behind the wall. Like Mass Effect 3, or Gears of War, that have cover mechanics, not Halo or Call of Duty. After all, this is an MMORPG, and should not have much twitch based gameplay. If you want that, go play Star Trek Elite Force (No knocking twitch gameplay, I like it sometimes, I personally just don't feel it should be in an RPG game).
How do you move and fire then?
You use "1" and "2" keys to shoot then hold right mouse to twitch with the mouse ?
Then you force yourself into not only hoding down the mouse button at any time while moving, you have to move your hands to fire.
How do you hit shift and 1 or sprint to shoot in any combination?
Maybe if I did something crazy like put fire on ctrl and alt fire on x I wouldn't have to move my hand from shift to fire - I guess I could talk my hands into doing something insane like that albeit a huge detour from any normal setup of controls in any game ever.
I'd actually love to see your key setup and one other thing it's funny you say you have to play with autoaim as a necessity then take a shot at 3D shooters...
Having the script aim for you makes all 3D shooters have 2 dimensions ?
Cut it diagonally about half way down
Wedge into the fire button
you are now on Absolute autofire Without messing about
you can also wedge other buttons (this trick allows a man with one hand to play this game I learned it when my hand was bandaged and pretty much useless )
I'm still new to the game, but I already have my gripes with ground combat. The main problem I have with ground combat is that it just feels extremely unpolished. When I tell my character to roll to the side, I expect him to do it that very moment (unless there is a cooldown). If I use an AOE attack I do not want to wonder if it actually hit who I thought it hit. If I want to take cover to prevent damage I want an actual cover mechanic and not have the energy beams go through the wall or crate I am behind.
I think the reason the ground combat feels so unpolished is because it tries to be a shooter and a RPG at the same time. They want players to be able to take cover and dodge attacks, but also still want players to sit back and press hotkeys to fire off different abilities like your typical MMORPG. This just doesn't work with the current system they have. They are trying to shoehorn a shooter into what is your typical MMORPG combat. You cannot effectively use cover because damage is not calculated through hitboxes, instead a hit or miss is determined before the energy beam even hits its target.
As it is, it feels like the ground combat was made by some guys and gals that were put in a room and were told to make a combat engine for a MMO. Then, when they were just about finished the same guy came in and said "Oh yeah, there will be guns and stuff in it. Try to make it like an action shooter or something fancy like that."
Space combat, on the other hand is great. It is obvious that the devs knew what they were going for from the start. Honestly I don't think there is any way to fix the ground combat without a significant revamp to the system. Not that crappy revamp SOE tried to do with SWG, where all they did was change around some numbers and didn't fix any underlying issues with the game. However, I know that will never happen so I'm just going to have to avoid the ground whenever I can.
I'll be completely fine with the ground game being ignored, though. This is Star Trek, ground combat is not seen that often. My favorite ground missions are ones where there is little to no combat.
Anyway, even if the script could outplay me I wouldn't want it to, I take pride in doing my own work.
Here is how I see a scenario.
I see a target on my flank and have to kill it.
I turn the mouse and press mb 1.
You start by holding down the mb2 (I fire at that time), then you turn the camera, then you press aimbot button, then you move your hand to the fire key and then fire.
What I see is all kinds of jumping through slow, needly hoops in exchange for autoaim but I'd like to see your keys setup (without the macro)
Well I guess we can rule out who asked to be given the ground sets with season 7
Not being able to take cover is your experience of it and it's a statement in itself saying how little time you put into it.
Fact of the matter is aiming and taking cover manually, twitch style in oppose to space's auto attack, is in the game and it is working albeit bugged just not in the way you think it is.
I don't know what the industry terminology for it is, something like projectile path or w/e, but when someone takes a shot at you the hit is registered not upon impact but upon firering.
What that means is if you take cover at the time where the projectile is moving you will see hits fly through walls.
But it goes both ways. If you click to throw a nade and before the firering animation runs, jump behind a wall, you will throw the nade through the wall because you registered a hit before you started shooting. (and yes I am the only player I ever saw doing it)
So in essence you have to take cover when they are about to fire, not when they actually shoot.
Just don't get it twisted and say it's impossible to take cover because that's not even remotely true.
If you ever try playing with an alien character and make him really small you will find you have more cover since your head isn't popping up.
The good part about ground is also the weakness of it. It's twitch based. You have to manually be fast and manually re-act fast and have the right timing.
Whereas most other mmorpgs, include sto's 2d space, only requires empty stats and what I call hotbar zombie casting.
In that ground is un-intuitive and strange, even difficult, for people not used to twitch combat.
I think you've pretty much nailed it on the head here.
If you're someone who has played games like Street Fighter or Mechwarrior.... It's not that hard to learn. I picked it up pretty quickly.
Then again... I know how to have True Ogre do a horn rake move that catches the enemy's head between his horns then swings them around by the neck like a ragdoll. (I love Tekken.)
Anyway, even if the script could outplay me I wouldn't want it to, I take pride in doing my own work.
Here is how I see a scenario.
I see a target on my flank and have to kill it.
I turn the mouse and press mb 1.
You start by holding down the mb2 (I fire at that time), then you turn the camera, then you press aimbot button, then you move your hand to the fire key and then fire.
What I see is all kinds of jumping through slow, needly hoops in exchange for autoaim but I'd like to see your keys setup (without the macro)
Something tells me you just don't like moving you're hands and pressing buttons. Just because you're using shooter mode it does not make you skilled in any way and don't fool you're self in to thinking it does. I play both modes depending on my mood at the time, both are just as fast.
Anyway, even if the script could outplay me I wouldn't want it to, I take pride in doing my own work.
Here is how I see a scenario.
I see a target on my flank and have to kill it.
I turn the mouse and press mb 1.
You start by holding down the mb2 (I fire at that time), then you turn the camera, then you press aimbot button, then you move your hand to the fire key and then fire.
What I see is all kinds of jumping through slow, needly hoops in exchange for autoaim but I'd like to see your keys setup (without the macro)
You are talking about the first target in a fight. The Shooter mode is superior to have the initiative. However, nothing is faster than the autoaim once the combat is started, which give the advantage back to the RPG mode.
Also, with shooter mode, you can miss, or select the target behind/in front of the target, and you'll need to move to retarget. Never happen in RPG mode.
I actually think both modes have pro and cons, and none of them are "the best". This is not battlefield. Powers take up to seconds to activate, and you don't need real reflexes to kill mobs.
I find it easier to play RPG mode and alternate moving with the mouse and keyboard and alternate using the tray and mouse clicking. It's how I've played most MMOs and found it to be good enough for raiding.
I hit w, a, s, d while I'm clicking certain abilities (generally long cooldown ones) and I move with the mouse and hit "1", "2", and "3" for the most part. I don't have a problem holding shift in either mode to sprint... and by and large, you should be pretty stationary in STFs. (Things like tripwires.) Also, sword weapons auto-move you. Tab target and sword allows you to pinball around.
My dream game would probably be a two mouse game with two five button mouse controllers, with tab-style targeting built into the mouse controls.
What the heck is the OP talking about? IMO ground is "great". I wish there could be so many more PvP maps available for players since it does need to be improved. Did you try any "Ground" PvPs?...it will make your adrenaline going and make you "feel" alive...so much better than space due to your own wits/techniques. I like space but for me space it's so much icky and won't touch space with a pole. You can "pay" your way up in space by getting the "best" ships/weapons/consoles and beat that heck out of people without feeling the "rush" that ground does. Sorry for emphasizing PvPs but PvEs and missions space is so much boring for me since the AI doesnt put up much of a fight
What the heck is the OP talking about? IMO ground is "great". I wish there could be so many more PvP maps available for players since it does need to be improved. Did you try any "Ground" PvPs?...it will make your adrenaline going and make you "feel" alive...so much better than space due to your own wits/techniques. I like space but for me space it's so much icky and won't touch space with a pole. You can "pay" your way up in space by getting the "best" ships/weapons/consoles and beat that heck out of people without feeling the "rush" that ground does. Sorry for emphasizing PvPs but PvEs and missions space is so much boring for me since the AI doesnt put up much of a fight
I agree. Nothing beats the rush of hitting one of your fleetmates with a sneak attack and blasting them halfway across the screen with a point-blank pulsewave blast.
If you use 1 ,2 and 3 to fire you have to move your hands.
I might have short fingers and low flexibility because I can't use 1 and 2 to fire without having to move my fingers away from being instantly ready, what finger do you use to fire with?
But in addition to having to move your fingers before you can fire, you are also doing a set of more complex, un-intuitive set of movements.
Anyway as I said before I'd love to hear a suggestion for mapping keys that is cost efficient in rpg mode. So far you are losing both time and simplicity and intuition.
Is it really that hard for you to aim you'd rather hold down needless buttons and move your fingers around?
And yeah also, we haven't even touched on aim mode yet.
It simply makes more sense, and for a reason, to use what you always use so you don't have to rehearse new co-ordination.
I had a similar discussion with people before who said the arrow keys are superior, now I don't agree but I'd certainly love to hear the argument for it.
I actually find it quite interesting to disguss because I like to play ground and if there is anything I can learn or build on I'd love input.
I find it easier to play RPG mode and alternate moving with the mouse and keyboard and alternate using the tray and mouse clicking. It's how I've played most MMOs and found it to be good enough for raiding.
I hit w, a, s, d while I'm clicking certain abilities (generally long cooldown ones) and I move with the mouse and hit "1", "2", and "3" for the most part. I don't have a problem holding shift in either mode to sprint... and by and large, you should be pretty stationary in STFs. (Things like tripwires.) Also, sword weapons auto-move you. Tab target and sword allows you to pinball around.
My dream game would probably be a two mouse game with two five button mouse controllers, with tab-style targeting built into the mouse controls.
You probably would have enjoyed Steel Battalion wouldn't you? :P
I prefer combat in space. I prefer story on the ground. Both in core content and Foundry.
On the ground, everything seems... I dunno, prone to problems. I suppose it bothers me more when my BOFFs get stuck against geometry than when my ship or fighters do -- more immersion-breaking?
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I prefer combat in space. I prefer story on the ground. Both in core content and Foundry.
On the ground, everything seems... I dunno, prone to problems. I suppose it bothers me more when my BOFFs get stuck against geometry than when my ship or fighters do -- more immersion-breaking?
The Fire Caves stand out to me, because I was always losing one or two Boffs in there. They'd get stuck on something, or fall into something else... It was awful.
I find Space is just plain better and more customizable.
Space tends to be slower, with large open areas. With Space, I have 9 console slots, 7 weapon slots, 3 equipment slots (Deflector, Shield, Engines) and 12 BOff abilities I can customize and build synergies for.
Ground tends to be more hectic, in smaller cramped areas that the UI really isn't comfortable with. (That was what turned me off about melee in Champions Online. I'm primarily playing both Arkham City and Star Trek Online right now, and the difference in usability is fairly large.) With Ground, I have 2 discrete weapons slots, 2 equipment slots (Shield, Armor), and 4 Kit abilities I can customize and build with.
Of course, we have 4 BOffs in Ground with their own 3 equipment slots (Weapon, Shield, Armor) and 4 abilities, but you can't rely on them being there. (By which I mean you can only bring one along to New Romulus, none to a 5-man STF, and so on. So if your effectiveness depends on your BOffs...)
fire caves you need to be a strat player not a fps player
moving boffs individually by orders on short leash
Right, essentially Ground is a lot more finicky due to the UI/engine. Space, at worse you have fighters to order around, and because space is empty we don't usually see them grind their faces into walls and run around like headless chickens when we quickly turn around.
If you use 1 ,2 and 3 to fire you have to move your hands.
I might have short fingers and low flexibility because I can't use 1 and 2 to fire without having to move my fingers away from being instantly ready, what finger do you use to fire with?
But in addition to having to move your fingers before you can fire, you are also doing a set of more complex, un-intuitive set of movements.
Anyway as I said before I'd love to hear a suggestion for mapping keys that is cost efficient in rpg mode. So far you are losing both time and simplicity and intuition.
Is it really that hard for you to aim you'd rather hold down needless buttons and move your fingers around?
And yeah also, we haven't even touched on aim mode yet.
It simply makes more sense, and for a reason, to use what you always use so you don't have to rehearse new co-ordination.
I had a similar discussion with people before who said the arrow keys are superior, now I don't agree but I'd certainly love to hear the argument for it.
I actually find it quite interesting to disguss because I like to play ground and if there is anything I can learn or build on I'd love input.
Ask and ye shall receive.
The way I do it is to have my left hand on the asdw keys and my right on the numeric keypad.
My left is mainly used for moving my character around, and sometimes tabbing to a new target. My right is for activating skills and using weapon attacks. I can usually fit all of my combat skills in two trays, so I have 0-9 and Ctrl 0-9 that I use for ground skills.
Because it's such an icky disease that must be avoided at all costs! :P
With New Romulus and the possibility of more adventure zones in the near future, the pure space players have lashed out, expressing their discontent about stepping foot outside of their ships for ANY reason. They want more space content, and I somewhat agree. But I also don't mind braving the surface of a planet in pursuit of progressing in the game.
So let's have another round. Do you like ground? Do you hate ground? What do you think could be improved? Should Cryptic just remove ground sections of the game entirely? Do you dip your toes onto a planet's surface and immediately scurry back into your shuttle? Will you forever forgo any future ground-related content added to this game?
Coming from a Quake / FPS background, the ground-game's auto-aiming has always bothered me. Yes, there is a first-person shooter mode, but using it is difficult and conveys no benefits whatsoever. My suggestion -- since aiming actually takes skill, why not reward using manual aim mode with some kind of increased damage output bonus? This will give players incentive to use manual aim instead of having the game aim for them.
PS: Sorry if this suggestion has already been made... didn't go through the entire thread.
EDIT: Another suggestion -- how about getting rid of the sniper secondary aimed shot delay when in shooter mode? This will make the sniper rifle more practical as a ground weapon in the hands of someone who can actually aim!
Ground just looks silly. Armor? Helmets? Oversized rifles, grenadelaunchers, heavy weaponry, even miniguns and now a flamethrower? STO's version of Star Trek ground combat seems to be more inspired by Star Wars and Mass Effect than from what we could see on the shows. I can live with personal shields but those armors are just wrong. A cover system would have been nice instead and more in line with the show, and Cryptic should have made rifles the heaviest weapons in STO.
I think the Breen CRM was the only heavy weapon ever featured in Star Trek, and it was just a holo-presentation by Quark (oh, and btw it shot a red beam and was NOT a cold weapon). Even in fullscale war Starfleet, KDF and Romulan Military always used pistols and rifles in combat, not oversized superguns.
Comments
Because all fps'ers you played were in 2D ?
Like I just pointed out and illustrated moving of any kind in rpg mode is clumsy, slow and awkward... the slow speed you move at alone is a huge dis-advantage - you simply will not be able to turn as fast as people in shooter mode.
I think what you are confusing here is shooter mode and aim mode, it's the only way what you just said makes any kind of sense.
When you are in rpg mode and hit "a" to start turning your camera and simply will not go as fast as moving your mouse twitch style.
But, that would be true for aim mode versus shooter mode.
Huh? I only use RPG mode, and I live through STFs all the time. Not only live, but actually do very well. It's shooter mode that gets me killed because I can't see my surroundings.
EDIT:
I don't hit 'a' to turn. I use the mouse. Works just fine. Plus, I can shoot in one direction, and turn camera in another. Can't do that in shooter mode. And I find that activating your powers quickly is clumsy in shooter mode.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You can turn your camera and character with the mouse in RPG mode, too. Your character also automatically turns to face its target while attacking.
You also get a greater field of vision in RPG mode.
they are ALL "indoor building" with one useable route and looking down the barrel of your improbably large gun
(Quake , Warzone , Battlefront and So on)
two dimensional thinking
Erm ?????????????????????????????? Say WHAT??????????????
in shooter mode you can barely move let alone safely jump
I think you may be on default keys or moving via mouse
Why would I need to turn my camera?
I have "Eyes of the Hawk" mode
im watching from above and behind
RPG mode can be, and I find is usually just as fast as shooter mode. Step one is of course, to use the mouse to turn the camera. Step two is to use the tab key to lock the target as soon as it comes within range, which is before a shooter mode could get it in the sights since I just ahve to get it one the screen. Step three, hit the fire key. Step four against live opponents is to run all over the place since I'm locked on and don't have to worry about keeping lined up. In PvE, I just start running behind the target so that I or one of my team can get a shot against the side or rear. I'm not a twitch player, but all else being equal, I am willing to bet that I could keep up with any shooter mode player in RPG mode. Of course, all in my perosnal opinion.
As for cover, I'm not talking about hiding behind walls, bugged damage or not, thats not taking cover. I'm talking about going up to a wall, and being able to shoot while still gaining some bonus for being behind the wall. Like Mass Effect 3, or Gears of War, that have cover mechanics, not Halo or Call of Duty. After all, this is an MMORPG, and should not have much twitch based gameplay. If you want that, go play Star Trek Elite Force (No knocking twitch gameplay, I like it sometimes, I personally just don't feel it should be in an RPG game).
Nouveau riche LTS member
Shooter mode = for fast reflexes
How do you move and fire then?
You use "1" and "2" keys to shoot then hold right mouse to twitch with the mouse ?
Then you force yourself into not only hoding down the mouse button at any time while moving, you have to move your hands to fire.
How do you hit shift and 1 or sprint to shoot in any combination?
Maybe if I did something crazy like put fire on ctrl and alt fire on x I wouldn't have to move my hand from shift to fire - I guess I could talk my hands into doing something insane like that albeit a huge detour from any normal setup of controls in any game ever.
I'd actually love to see your key setup and one other thing it's funny you say you have to play with autoaim as a necessity then take a shot at 3D shooters...
Having the script aim for you makes all 3D shooters have 2 dimensions ?
Cut it diagonally about half way down
Wedge into the fire button
you are now on Absolute autofire Without messing about
you can also wedge other buttons (this trick allows a man with one hand to play this game I learned it when my hand was bandaged and pretty much useless )
I think the reason the ground combat feels so unpolished is because it tries to be a shooter and a RPG at the same time. They want players to be able to take cover and dodge attacks, but also still want players to sit back and press hotkeys to fire off different abilities like your typical MMORPG. This just doesn't work with the current system they have. They are trying to shoehorn a shooter into what is your typical MMORPG combat. You cannot effectively use cover because damage is not calculated through hitboxes, instead a hit or miss is determined before the energy beam even hits its target.
As it is, it feels like the ground combat was made by some guys and gals that were put in a room and were told to make a combat engine for a MMO. Then, when they were just about finished the same guy came in and said "Oh yeah, there will be guns and stuff in it. Try to make it like an action shooter or something fancy like that."
Space combat, on the other hand is great. It is obvious that the devs knew what they were going for from the start. Honestly I don't think there is any way to fix the ground combat without a significant revamp to the system. Not that crappy revamp SOE tried to do with SWG, where all they did was change around some numbers and didn't fix any underlying issues with the game. However, I know that will never happen so I'm just going to have to avoid the ground whenever I can.
I'll be completely fine with the ground game being ignored, though. This is Star Trek, ground combat is not seen that often. My favorite ground missions are ones where there is little to no combat.
Anyway, even if the script could outplay me I wouldn't want it to, I take pride in doing my own work.
Here is how I see a scenario.
I see a target on my flank and have to kill it.
I turn the mouse and press mb 1.
You start by holding down the mb2 (I fire at that time), then you turn the camera, then you press aimbot button, then you move your hand to the fire key and then fire.
What I see is all kinds of jumping through slow, needly hoops in exchange for autoaim but I'd like to see your keys setup (without the macro)
I think you've pretty much nailed it on the head here.
Then again... I know how to have True Ogre do a horn rake move that catches the enemy's head between his horns then swings them around by the neck like a ragdoll.
My character Tsin'xing
Something tells me you just don't like moving you're hands and pressing buttons. Just because you're using shooter mode it does not make you skilled in any way and don't fool you're self in to thinking it does. I play both modes depending on my mood at the time, both are just as fast.
Also, with shooter mode, you can miss, or select the target behind/in front of the target, and you'll need to move to retarget. Never happen in RPG mode.
I actually think both modes have pro and cons, and none of them are "the best". This is not battlefield. Powers take up to seconds to activate, and you don't need real reflexes to kill mobs.
I hit w, a, s, d while I'm clicking certain abilities (generally long cooldown ones) and I move with the mouse and hit "1", "2", and "3" for the most part. I don't have a problem holding shift in either mode to sprint... and by and large, you should be pretty stationary in STFs. (Things like tripwires.) Also, sword weapons auto-move you. Tab target and sword allows you to pinball around.
My dream game would probably be a two mouse game with two five button mouse controllers, with tab-style targeting built into the mouse controls.
I can't believe so many people dislike the ground game.
I completely understand that it has flaws and it can definitely be improved upon...but so many people not wanting it at all...has me worried.
I really hope they stick with the current mix of space and ground combat.
I definitely would not be playing this game if it didn't have the ground game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What the heck is the OP talking about? IMO ground is "great". I wish there could be so many more PvP maps available for players since it does need to be improved. Did you try any "Ground" PvPs?...it will make your adrenaline going and make you "feel" alive...so much better than space due to your own wits/techniques. I like space but for me space it's so much icky and won't touch space with a pole. You can "pay" your way up in space by getting the "best" ships/weapons/consoles and beat that heck out of people without feeling the "rush" that ground does. Sorry for emphasizing PvPs but PvEs and missions space is so much boring for me since the AI doesnt put up much of a fight
Oh and true Bat'leth masters know better than to try it in shooter mode.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I might have short fingers and low flexibility because I can't use 1 and 2 to fire without having to move my fingers away from being instantly ready, what finger do you use to fire with?
But in addition to having to move your fingers before you can fire, you are also doing a set of more complex, un-intuitive set of movements.
Anyway as I said before I'd love to hear a suggestion for mapping keys that is cost efficient in rpg mode. So far you are losing both time and simplicity and intuition.
Is it really that hard for you to aim you'd rather hold down needless buttons and move your fingers around?
And yeah also, we haven't even touched on aim mode yet.
It simply makes more sense, and for a reason, to use what you always use so you don't have to rehearse new co-ordination.
I had a similar discussion with people before who said the arrow keys are superior, now I don't agree but I'd certainly love to hear the argument for it.
I actually find it quite interesting to disguss because I like to play ground and if there is anything I can learn or build on I'd love input.
You probably would have enjoyed Steel Battalion wouldn't you? :P
On the ground, everything seems... I dunno, prone to problems. I suppose it bothers me more when my BOFFs get stuck against geometry than when my ship or fighters do -- more immersion-breaking?
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
The Fire Caves stand out to me, because I was always losing one or two Boffs in there. They'd get stuck on something, or fall into something else... It was awful.
moving boffs individually by orders on short leash
(admittedly one of my boffs DOES get stuck in walls at beam down but he always has)
Space tends to be slower, with large open areas. With Space, I have 9 console slots, 7 weapon slots, 3 equipment slots (Deflector, Shield, Engines) and 12 BOff abilities I can customize and build synergies for.
Ground tends to be more hectic, in smaller cramped areas that the UI really isn't comfortable with. (That was what turned me off about melee in Champions Online. I'm primarily playing both Arkham City and Star Trek Online right now, and the difference in usability is fairly large.) With Ground, I have 2 discrete weapons slots, 2 equipment slots (Shield, Armor), and 4 Kit abilities I can customize and build with.
Of course, we have 4 BOffs in Ground with their own 3 equipment slots (Weapon, Shield, Armor) and 4 abilities, but you can't rely on them being there. (By which I mean you can only bring one along to New Romulus, none to a 5-man STF, and so on. So if your effectiveness depends on your BOffs...)
Edit:
Right, essentially Ground is a lot more finicky due to the UI/engine. Space, at worse you have fighters to order around, and because space is empty we don't usually see them grind their faces into walls and run around like headless chickens when we quickly turn around.
The way I do it is to have my left hand on the asdw keys and my right on the numeric keypad.
My left is mainly used for moving my character around, and sometimes tabbing to a new target. My right is for activating skills and using weapon attacks. I can usually fit all of my combat skills in two trays, so I have 0-9 and Ctrl 0-9 that I use for ground skills.
My character Tsin'xing
Coming from a Quake / FPS background, the ground-game's auto-aiming has always bothered me. Yes, there is a first-person shooter mode, but using it is difficult and conveys no benefits whatsoever. My suggestion -- since aiming actually takes skill, why not reward using manual aim mode with some kind of increased damage output bonus? This will give players incentive to use manual aim instead of having the game aim for them.
PS: Sorry if this suggestion has already been made... didn't go through the entire thread.
EDIT: Another suggestion -- how about getting rid of the sniper secondary aimed shot delay when in shooter mode? This will make the sniper rifle more practical as a ground weapon in the hands of someone who can actually aim!
I think the Breen CRM was the only heavy weapon ever featured in Star Trek, and it was just a holo-presentation by Quark (oh, and btw it shot a red beam and was NOT a cold weapon). Even in fullscale war Starfleet, KDF and Romulan Military always used pistols and rifles in combat, not oversized superguns.
but thats just an upgraded rifle
personally I would limit special and heavy weapons to Tactical boffs but thats just me
And I do admit to a Female Klingon medical officer with a Disruptor minigun