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Dilthium HAS Officially crashed

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    born2bwild1born2bwild1 Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Anyone out there still buying Zen with Real dollars to convert to Dilthium at 86/1?

    Seems like this is the floor area as it as bounced off this before - of course i see another Zen sale before the 3rd anniversary.
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    twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It should be 300/1 as Galt intended.
    <3
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    admiraljt#1430 admiraljt Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    With over a quarter of a million zen for sale at 88 to 1. It looks like a few folks are still buying zen with cash to trade for Dilithium.
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    z69evermoonz69evermoon Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The only time I use the exchange is when I get my gold member monthly 550zen if there is nothing in store that I want I sell it off undercutting the market by about 10 to 15 percent. Otherwise I dont really use it.

    You get
    1000 dilth from explore missions.
    2,880 dilth from Omega 6 fleet actions every hour
    1000 dilith from foundry missions
    380 from mining.

    If you play the duty officer mission and you get a crit sucess chain going you can rack up 100 to 800 dilith doing nothing but logging in in the morning setting up your duty officer at 8am going to work then coming home at 4pm to collect the rewards 12,000 a month if you avg. 400 dilith a day through duty officer missions.
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    admiralandyadmiralandy Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Right now there is 30k at 131 and 60k at 130 - then nothing like 2k down to 127 - who knows what is below that

    on the ohter side it's stacked up with zen to sell

    I think it was rather misleading to say dilithium has officially crashed, unless there was a direct announcement from Cryptic management. Rather Dilithium prices are: 'Working as intended' I expect if there were any official response. Whilst I agree with the sentiment, dilithium even lower these days for the zen I don't spend anymore. There hasn't been much official about this.

    Merely same vague talk that dilithium will be looked at in one of the recent interviews and no real details as to how it will be looked at.

    Given the frustration caused by dilithium I am in no way defending Cryptic, but believe the forums are best served with honest and clear messages however emotively expressed.
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    admiralandyadmiralandy Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The only time I use the exchange is when I get my gold member monthly 550zen if there is nothing in store that I want I sell it off undercutting the market by about 10 to 15 percent. Otherwise I dont really use it.

    You get
    1000 dilth from explore missions.
    2,880 dilth from Omega 6 fleet actions every hour
    1000 dilith from foundry missions
    380 from mining.

    If you play the duty officer mission and you get a crit sucess chain going you can rack up 100 to 800 dilith doing nothing but logging in in the morning setting up your duty officer at 8am going to work then coming home at 4pm to collect the rewards 12,000 a month if you avg. 400 dilith a day through duty officer missions.

    I generate about 2500+ with doff assignments, do some research some award a base 50, rather than 5, some 250, 500 relocating colonists and exchange contra 2000. Thats just on the fed side no idea about klingon dil doff assignments.
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    whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Dilithium hasn't crashed, its just lower than what people who used to buy Zen to get mass quantities of dilithium wan't it to be. At 300/1 dil/Zen ratio of the past is what they want, but wouldn't the Zen buyers then say it is crashed then?
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    whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I generate about 2500+ with doff assignments, do some research some award a base 50, rather than 5, some 250, 500 relocating colonists and exchange contra 2000. Thats just on the fed side no idea about klingon dil doff assignments.

    Do some Borg Elite STF's (Cha-ching), turn the Omega Marks (50 each) in for more dilithium, rinse lather repeat. Without much effort, I get over 10k dil'/day.

    Similar with the Romulan STF's.
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    stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    By just about any economic viewpoint, something losing more than 2/3ds of it's trading value in a fairly short window of time is the definition of a crash.
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    whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    By just about any economic viewpoint, something losing more than 2/3ds of it's trading value in a fairly short window of time is the definition of a crash.

    Not necessarily. If the item was overvalued (over-inflated) to begin with, it isn't a crash. Dil/Zen started at about 80-90/1 when it started, quickly inflated to 300/1 and stayed there for a bit but recently dropped back to close its original value. The inflation of the item has been corrected (deflated).
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    born2bwild1born2bwild1 Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I think it was rather misleading to say dilithium has officially crashed, unless there was a direct announcement from Cryptic management. Rather Dilithium prices are: 'Working as intended' I expect if there were any official response. Whilst I agree with the sentiment, dilithium even lower these days for the zen I don't spend anymore. There hasn't been much official about this.

    Merely same vague talk that dilithium will be looked at in one of the recent interviews and no real details as to how it will be looked at.

    Given the frustration caused by dilithium I am in no way defending Cryptic, but believe the forums are best served with honest and clear messages however emotively expressed.

    By just about any economic viewpoint, something losing more than 2/3ds of it's trading value in a fairly short window of time is the definition of a crash.

    It's hard to read through almost 1000 posts - but i have said a few times that it's ZEN's value to dilthium that has crashed - but saying "dilthium has crashed"(which it has in numerical number - is just more eye catching than saying "zen has crashed" - since dilthium is on the minds of every player in the game all the time where as Zen is not.

    This thread has never been anything other than an information thread - where people talk about how they feel - and I would say in just under 2 months with 42,000 views and almost 1000 posts - it's a hot topic.

    I expect this thread to last for some time as the market will be in flux a lot over the next few months.
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    born2bwild1born2bwild1 Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Not necessarily. If the item was overvalued (over-inflated) to begin with, it isn't a crash. Dil/Zen started at about 80-90/1 when it started, quickly inflated to 300/1 and stayed there for a bit but recently dropped back to close its original value. The inflation of the item has been corrected (deflated).

    No the stock market is the same - if the Dow was at 5000 in 1995 and went to 15,000 - then fell back to 5000 in a few months everyone would say the stock market has "CRASHED" not deflated.
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    gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    No the stock market is the same - if the Dow was at 5000 in 1995 and went to 15,000 - then fell back to 5000 in a few months everyone would say the stock market has "CRASHED" not deflated.

    That depends, sometimes it is called a correction not a crash. What causes the difference is whether people feel it was overvalued or not. If it was seen as a reasonable price they call it a crash. If it was a bubble waiting to burst they call it a correction.
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    nejdinenejdine Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Glad that the dilithium are below 100. Its manageable to get enough to buy ships for 2500zen, without living in the game. Buuuut, it'll most likely skyrocket to 250-300ish when another sought after ship comes... :(
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    twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Dilithium hasn't crashed, its just lower than what people who used to buy Zen to get mass quantities of dilithium wan't it to be. At 300/1 dil/Zen ratio of the past is what they want, but wouldn't the Zen buyers then say it is crashed then?

    They did complain

    The people who are complaining now told previous complainers that it was the way it's supposed to be because "markets" and not because they were benefitting from the exchange rate at the time.
    <3
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    leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    No the stock market is the same - if the Dow was at 5000 in 1995 and went to 15,000 - then fell back to 5000 in a few months everyone would say the stock market has "CRASHED" not deflated.

    You're confusing what the currency is here though.

    Dilithium is the commodity. ZEN is the currency.

    The value of dilithium skyrocketed.

    If the stock for my potato farm rose from $5 to $50, you wouldn't say, "OMG! The value of money dropped! Look how much less potato farm stock i can buy!" It's that the potato farm performed well. If it outpriced you, that isn't automatically a bad thing.

    If it outprices too many people, Cryptic will attempt to increase the value of ZEN. And they will probably do it NOT with shiny new ships (because they already produce those as fast as they can) but with more Fleet Ship Module-type sinks.

    Do you want ZEN-financed weapon requisitions that outclass Fleet/Mk XII set weapons or Elite Quality Bridge officer lockboxes for exclusive space traits? Because that's how they'll correct for dilithium being overvalued. By increasing the pressure for ZEN sales in a non-art intensive way.
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    syberghostsyberghost Member Posts: 1,711 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    nejdine wrote: »
    Glad that the dilithium are below 100. Its manageable to get enough to buy ships for 2500zen, without living in the game. Buuuut, it'll most likely skyrocket to 250-300ish when another sought after ship comes... :(

    Yeah, that's the other thing I don't get about the complaints here. There are basically three actors in this area:

    1) Players who want to earn Dilithium and use it to purchase Zen so they can buy stuff.
    2) PWE, who wants people to spend money on Zen to buy Dilithium.
    3) Players who want to spend money on Zen and use it to buy Dilithium.

    #1 and #2 benefit hugely from Zen being cheap as it is right now. #3 don't, but we're the only ones spending money anyway; the #1 folks are almost all low-spenders no matter what the in-game economic climate looks like, and #3 is where all the whales (or what my gaming clan calls "the more money than sense club") are found.

    Yet it seems like most of the people complaining are in the #1 category, and by their comments seem to think that when PWE understands that the market has crashed, they'll rush to "fix the problem". In reality, they're probably high-fiving because they've got the market in the right place finally.
    Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
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    diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Do you want ZEN-financed weapon requisitions that outclass Fleet/Mk XII set weapons or Elite Quality Bridge officer lockboxes for exclusive space traits? Because that's how they'll correct for dilithium being overvalued. By increasing the pressure for ZEN sales in a non-art intensive way.

    Hm I guess you're right. If elite stuff goes in the store then it'll just be a purely pay to win game. It's already the case in a way but we can choose to farm to get what we want. So, no way. Keep it as it is. :D

    I don't mind more dilithium sinks if we can just play the game to get our ship equipement. :P
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
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    tsurutafan01tsurutafan01 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I've been around this game enough now to say this with confidence:

    Anyone who thinks 1 zen "should" cost 200 dilithium or more is flat out trolling so blatantly that you're really just asking sane people to ignore absolutely everything you have to say about this game. It's that silly.


    "We are smart." - Grebnedlog

    Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
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    centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Do you want ZEN-financed weapon requisitions that outclass Fleet/Mk XII set weapons or Elite Quality Bridge officer lockboxes for exclusive space traits? Because that's how they'll correct for dilithium being overvalued. By increasing the pressure for ZEN sales in a non-art intensive way.

    Though, if they wanted to increase the value of Zen (Which they don't), then they could start releasing a bunch of costumes. :P
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    theroyalfamilytheroyalfamily Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    nejdine wrote: »
    Buuuut, it'll most likely skyrocket to 250-300ish when another sought after ship comes... :(

    It would have to be some ship, because that has never happened before.

    The main driving force behind the D:Z ratio is how useful dil is, not anything that's in the Z-store. Yes, the Z-store affects the price of dil, because it's an alternative use for zen, but utility of refined dil is by far the main driver. When there was almost no use for dil, you could get 250-350 for it; the only reason it wasn't waaaay higher was because there was almost nothing useful in the z-store either. When S6 and the starbases came out, it dropped down to about 160, because suddenly there was a neat use for dil. When S7 came out with the rep system, it's dropped to about 90, because there is even more use for it, while the z-store hasn't kept up (I figure it'd be a bit lower if there weren't the fleet ship modules and the Vesta pack, as people won't trade in dil to buy nothing with their new zen).

    When we get a couple more rep systems going (with similar rewards, I'd assume), I'd bet the rate will drop down to about 50-60:1, as each sink has seen a decrease in the amount of dil you could get with zen of about 40% (or rather, dil has gotten about 60-70% more valuable).
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    erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It would have to be some ship, because that has never happened before.

    The main driving force behind the D:Z ratio is how useful dil is, not anything that's in the Z-store. Yes, the Z-store affects the price of dil, because it's an alternative use for zen, but utility of refined dil is by far the main driver. When there was almost no use for dil, you could get 250-350 for it; the only reason it wasn't waaaay higher was because there was almost nothing useful in the z-store either. When S6 and the starbases came out, it dropped down to about 160, because suddenly there was a neat use for dil. When S7 came out with the rep system, it's dropped to about 90, because there is even more use for it, while the z-store hasn't kept up (I figure it'd be a bit lower if there weren't the fleet ship modules and the Vesta pack, as people won't trade in dil to buy nothing with their new zen).

    When we get a couple more rep systems going (with similar rewards, I'd assume), I'd bet the rate will drop down to about 50-60:1, as each sink has seen a decrease in the amount of dil you could get with zen of about 40% (or rather, dil has gotten about 60-70% more valuable).
    I think you are right. Currently, all the new shiny toys are in the reputation system, and not in the store. And we need a lot of dil to buy them.
    Obviously, the ratio will change quickly when the next lockbox will be released, and it may come back to normal.

    ATM, dil value is superior to zen value for the vast majority of player.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Though, if they wanted to increase the value of Zen (Which they don't), then they could start releasing a bunch of costumes. :P

    That means they delay content (which requires costume artists) to do more costumes.

    Basically, the frequency of costume releases right now is what they can justify. They can't really release them faster without cutting elsewhere into development.

    If Cryptic decided to up the value of ZEN/decrease the value of dilithium, they'd have two realistic choices:

    Cut dilithium expenses. (Not guaranteed to work. It provides "slack" in the economy but there's no guarantee players would take it.)

    Create ZEN sinks that don't involve artwork. Effectively, what's needed are "pet rocks." Items with a minimal production budget, no new visual, and which have demand. Which means stat boosts that are meaningful without accompanying artwork. This is in a sense what Fleet Ships are.

    I'll go on record as saying that if they didn't require Fleet Ship Modules, we'd probably see something like 60 dil per ZEN. The FSMs are a stabilizing force, as are lockboxes. Remove those and the value of dilithium would skyrocket and value of ZEN (relative to dilithium) would plummet.
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    delsabereduxdelsaberedux Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Dilithium hasn't truly crashed until that Market Speculator NPC at ESD jumps out an airlock.
    Relax.
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    stark2kstark2k Member Posts: 1,467 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Star Trek Online Hacks!!!

    Guess we have a troller or a Gold Seller ^

    Why would you even post such a thing?
    StarTrekIronMan.jpg
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    sudoku7sudoku7 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    That means they delay content (which requires costume artists) to do more costumes.

    Basically, the frequency of costume releases right now is what they can justify. They can't really release them faster without cutting elsewhere into development.

    If Cryptic decided to up the value of ZEN/decrease the value of dilithium, they'd have two realistic choices:

    Cut dilithium expenses. (Not guaranteed to work. It provides "slack" in the economy but there's no guarantee players would take it.)

    Create ZEN sinks that don't involve artwork. Effectively, what's needed are "pet rocks." Items with a minimal production budget, no new visual, and which have demand. Which means stat boosts that are meaningful without accompanying artwork. This is in a sense what Fleet Ships are.

    I'll go on record as saying that if they didn't require Fleet Ship Modules, we'd probably see something like 60 dil per ZEN. The FSMs are a stabilizing force, as are lockboxes. Remove those and the value of dilithium would skyrocket and value of ZEN (relative to dilithium) would plummet.

    Quite, at glance [obviously no numbers here], I think that there needs to be more on the demand side of Zen. Stuff that gets Zen spent directly [as opposed to indirectly through the Dil market]. Since at the very least Zen being spent [well Zen being acquired, but if it's not spent, folks have less reason to acquire] is Cryptic's bottom line.

    Time sink accelerators would be my suggestion [imagine a cheasy little item that reduced the completion time on a Rep Project, or even a Fleet project]. But honestly, I dunno.
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    admiralandyadmiralandy Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I've been around this game enough now to say this with confidence:

    Anyone who thinks 1 zen "should" cost 200 dilithium or more is flat out trolling so blatantly that you're really just asking sane people to ignore absolutely everything you have to say about this game. It's that silly.

    The Dilithium exchange rates can be set to minimum 25, maximum 500, so with midpoint being 250, anyone saying 1 zen should cost less than 200 dilithium is trolling.

    TBH the above posting was ignorant and offensive and you sound like f2p, I use zen, theres obviously going to be difference of opinion.

    Currently the price of dil to zen is kiss my TRIBBLE if you think I'm spending zen on what will be no more than a drop in the dilithium sink ocean which further makes buying dil even more pointless, I don't have the disposable income to buy enough dilithium for it to feel it would make a difference even if I was willing to trade at the current rates.
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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The Dilithium exchange rates can be set to minimum 25, maximum 500, so with midpoint being 250, anyone saying 1 zen should cost less than 200 dilithium is trolling.

    TBH the above posting was ignorant and offensive and you sound like f2p, I use zen, theres obviously going to be difference of opinion.

    Currently the price of dil to zen is kiss my TRIBBLE if you think I'm spending zen on what will be no more than a drop in the dilithium sink ocean which further makes buying dil even more pointless, I don't have the disposable income to buy enough dilithium for it to feel it would make a difference even if I was willing to trade at the current rates.

    Obviously, the thing to do is to farm as much dilithium as you can in anticipation of the market eventually reversing itself.

    Kettle Calling Pot, is just a waste of precious game playing time.
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
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    eulifdaviseulifdavis Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    syberghost wrote: »
    Yeah, that's the other thing I don't get about the complaints here. There are basically three actors in this area:

    1) Players who want to earn Dilithium and use it to purchase Zen so they can buy stuff.
    2) PWE, who wants people to spend money on Zen to buy Dilithium.
    3) Players who want to spend money on Zen and use it to buy Dilithium.

    #1 and #2 benefit hugely from Zen being cheap as it is right now. #3 don't, but we're the only ones spending money anyway; the #1 folks are almost all low-spenders no matter what the in-game economic climate looks like, and #3 is where all the whales (or what my gaming clan calls "the more money than sense club") are found.

    Yet it seems like most of the people complaining are in the #1 category, and by their comments seem to think that when PWE understands that the market has crashed, they'll rush to "fix the problem". In reality, they're probably high-fiving because they've got the market in the right place finally.

    I'm squarely in the #3 category. I occasionally have money to spend, and HATE grinding. :mad: I'd rather spend a small amount of my real-world cash to get dilithium and be done with it. With the exchange rate being so low, though, it simply is not worth the expense.

    I used to spend $5-10 every couple weeks or so just for dilithium. Those purchases have stopped entirely until it becomes worth my investment again.

    For the penny-pinchers at Cryptic/PWE: Increasing the need for dilithium will NOT increase the perceived "value" of zen -> dilithium. The only way you're going to get more people spending money again is to make dilithium easier to get again, thereby increasing the exchange value.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    twg042370 wrote: »
    They did complain

    The people who are complaining now told previous complainers that it was the way it's supposed to be because "markets" and not because they were benefitting from the exchange rate at the time.

    And I say to both sides "get a grip". Its going to fluctuate, its going to go up and go down.
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