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700 Day Android

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    GenEricII wrote:

    After 500+ posts and nearly 35,000 views, it seems we've gotten all the correspondence Cryptic is willing to give on this.

    I guess my tiny shred of hope will have to carry me to the season 6 launch. If the variants are still a no-show after that I doubt I'll have much hope left for my female android bridge officer.

    You're not going to give up that soon, are you? ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    You're not going to give up that soon, are you? ;)


    Oh I'll keep up in here, I'm not letting them get away with no delivery AND no reasons. However, when it comes to hope, I'm running low as it is, after season 6 launches, if the variants aren't there, I doubt there'll be much left. I'll be a shell of the man I once was... :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    tolwyn21 wrote:
    Quick question (somewhat) on this topic; I've well passed 800 days much like others. I didn't claim my android and now when I visit the vendor, it shows the android but I don't have a token or anything that could allow me to claim it. Is this intentional or a bug and I need to submit a ticket for it?

    Thanks

    You're not the only one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Gingie wrote:
    You're not the only one.


    Sounds like a bug to me. You should just be able to claim a male engineering android boff on ESD as long as you don't have one already. If you have one, you should be able to dismiss it and claim another one. If you can't, I'd definitely submit a ticket (I hope they get to your ticket sooner than they've responded to this issue).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    GenEricII wrote:

    Sounds like a bug to me. You should just be able to claim a male engineering android boff on ESD as long as you don't have one already. If you have one, you should be able to dismiss it and claim another one. If you can't, I'd definitely submit a ticket (I hope they get to your ticket sooner than they've responded to this issue).

    Is the trade-in "tech" working right now? I thought that was the tech that JHeinig received on whatever build he was working on in December that we haven't actually seen in-game yet. (...and won't until Season 6)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    all I know is this, in MARCH of this year, we were told by a Cryptic employee, it was costumes we were waiting on, not tech, not S6, costumes. Then we were told that questioning him was implying he wasn't telling the truth. Now, we suddenly need tech from S6? SO, that said, I'm done I'm not ever going to believe them again, its crystal clear to me now how bad they communicate, since now in June we get told its Tech, again.


    And they wonder why some of us don't believe them now? Seriously?

    Sorry, but I'm not buying anything anymore, I'm done giving you any sort of benefit of doubt, you've proven that anything you say, is questionable at best, and flat out untrue at worst.

    Your actions Cryptic, show me a serious lack of integrity, standards communications and to be flat out blunt, Honest interaction with your customers, you will do what ever you can to keep them around.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Kyuui wrote: »
    all I know is this, in MARCH of this year, we were told by a Cryptic employee, it was costumes we were waiting on, not tech, not S6, costumes. Then we were told that questioning him was implying he wasn't telling the truth. Now, we suddenly need tech from S6? SO, that said, I'm done I'm not ever going to believe them again, its crystal clear to me now how bad they communicate, since now in June we get told its Tech, again.


    And they wonder why some of us don't believe them now? Seriously?

    Sorry, but I'm not buying anything anymore, I'm done giving you any sort of benefit of doubt, you've proven that anything you say, is questionable at best, and flat out untrue at worst.

    Your actions Cryptic, show me a serious lack of integrity, standards communications and to be flat out blunt, Honest interaction with your customers, you will do what ever you can to keep them around.

    Like I've said before, when looking back at the timeline of events, we should've probably recognized when JHeinig needed new "tech" in December, it wouldn't have been applied to Season 5 (which had just launched at that point). The way they develop games, they separate the major code branches into STO's "Seasons".
    • Dec 1, 2011: Season 5 launches. Code branch deployed on live servers. (And most of the Season 5 work was already done when it deployed on TRIBBLE months before that)
    • Mid Dec. 2011: JHeinig says that he's waiting on new "tech" to get the exchangeable Android BOffs to work. At this point he's likely already working on the Season 6 codebranch since Season 5 already launched, but as he's probably seeing it, it's just the next thing on his desk.
    • Late Dec. 2011: JHeinig says he has the tech he needs for the BOff exchange to work, but they don't have the "art" for the costumes of the other Android variations.
    • March 2012: Still no art for the Android BOffs. Without the art, they all come out looking like the same Android BOff we have currently. (which, except for being male, I'm not sure what the big issue is)

    When I look at this timeline now, it seems likely to me that the reason the "art" was never applied is because it was never on the art team's schedule. The art team rarely ever has to deal with backend tech issues, they work in the short term. If the tech was not on the Season 5 codebranch (which was already deployed) and instead on the Season 6 codebranch which still had months to go before they needed to even bother thinking about (and we've seen that even Tumerboy hadn't started working on something as major as Starbase art until May), it would've never been added to their schedules until the new Season 6 codebranch was getting ready to deploy.

    When developing software like this, the guys doing the systems work and engineering are often literally travelling back and forth in time when communicating with us. While we may be playing with the latest builds on the "test shards", they're working on builds that we won't see for months. Builds that change drastically on a whim. Builds that are in virtual states, where all they're looking at is code instead of a rendered environment. This isn't even the first time we've seen devs get confused as to which build we're on and which build they're working on.

    If there's any conclusion you should draw from this turn of events, it's that when they say they need 'tech' for something, it's not going to be within the current Season codebranch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Like I've said before, when looking back at the timeline of events, we should've probably recognized when JHeinig needed new "tech" in December, it wouldn't have been applied to Season 5 (which had just launched at that point). The way they develop games, they separate the major code branches into STO's "Seasons".
    • Dec 1, 2011: Season 5 launches. Code branch deployed on live servers. (And most of the Season 5 work was already done when it deployed on TRIBBLE months before that)
    • Mid Dec. 2011: JHeinig says that he's waiting on new "tech" to get the exchangeable Android BOffs to work. At this point he's likely already working on the Season 6 codebranch since Season 5 already launched, but as he's probably seeing it, it's just the next thing on his desk.
    • Late Dec. 2011: JHeinig says he has the tech he needs for the BOff exchange to work, but they don't have the "art" for the costumes of the other Android variations.
    • March 2012: Still no art for the Android BOffs. Without the art, they all come out looking like the same Android BOff we have currently. (which, except for being male, I'm not sure what the big issue is)

    When I look at this timeline now, it seems likely to me that the reason the "art" was never applied is because it was never on the art team's schedule. The art team rarely ever has to deal with backend tech issues, they work in the short term. If the tech was not on the Season 5 codebranch (which was already deployed) and instead on the Season 6 codebranch which still had months to go before they needed to even bother thinking about (and we've seen that even Tumerboy hadn't started working on something as major as Starbase art until May), it would've never been added to their schedules until the new Season 6 codebranch was getting ready to deploy.

    When developing software like this, the guys doing the systems work and engineering are often literally travelling back and forth in time when communicating with us. While we may be playing with the latest builds on the "test shards", they're working on builds that we won't see for months. Builds that change drastically on a whim. Builds that are in virtual states, where all they're looking at is code instead of a rendered environment. This isn't even the first time we've seen devs get confused as to which build we're on and which build they're working on.

    If there's any conclusion you should draw from this turn of events, it's that when they say they need 'tech' for something, it's not going to be within the current Season codebranch.


    I think you're being way to generous to Cryptic... I also think they should hire you for their pr department, because your explanation sounded better than anything that's come from official channels.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    ...If there's any conclusion you should draw from this turn of events, it's that when they say they need 'tech' for something, it's not going to be within the current Season codebranch.
    Cryptic has introduced new "tech" mid-season before, so it's not impossible, or even unlikely for them to do it. They have said at times that they need "TECH" that's on a different branch or otherwise is complicated, and that usually has to wait for a Season update. When JHeinig told us of the delay, he said it as though it was "tech" not "TECH", he made no allusions to it being crunchy. Granted, he wasn't sure how long it would take, but then he also told us the tech/TECH was there, and we were just waiting on costumes... Again, no mention of code-branching or Season-pending changes...

    What bugs me about this is the utter lack of priority, even so much as they can't keep us updated on how/why things are progressing (the most recent SotG not-withstanding, of course).

    A similar thing is happening over in CO where there are people already past 1,000 days still pending their 1,000 Day Vet Rewards and we were just told in CO's SotG on Friday that the 1k Reward is "currently in development." (Mind you, I'm only a 430ish day vet there, so I'm not really affected (yet?).)

    It is ever more clear to me that Crytic/PW, contrary to the lip service they occasionally pay, does not value Gold Members, at least when it comes to so many other "more important" aspects of the game.

    :(

    Hopefully they'll have this fixed by Season 7 when the stories (and hopefuly myself) return to STO. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    ... 825 Days (for me)... and counting (and still waiting).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Cryptic has introduced new "tech" mid-season before, so it's not impossible, or even unlikely for them to do it. They have said at times that they need "TECH" that's on a different branch or otherwise is complicated, and that usually has to wait for a Season update. When JHeinig told us of the delay, he said it as though it was "tech" not "TECH", he made no allusions to it being crunchy. Granted, he wasn't sure how long it would take, but then he also told us the tech/TECH was there, and we were just waiting on costumes... Again, no mention of code-branching or Season-pending changes...

    What bugs me about this is the utter lack of priority, even so much as they can't keep us updated on how/why things are progressing (the most recent SotG not-withstanding, of course).

    A similar thing is happening over in CO where there are people already past 1,000 days still pending their 1,000 Day Vet Rewards and we were just told in CO's SotG on Friday that the 1k Reward is "currently in development." (Mind you, I'm only a 430ish day vet there, so I'm not really affected (yet?).)

    It is ever more clear to me that Crytic/PW, contrary to the lip service they occasionally pay, does not value Gold Members, at least when it comes to so many other "more important" aspects of the game.

    :(

    Hopefully they'll have this fixed by Season 7 when the stories (and hopefuly myself) return to STO. :rolleyes:


    Yep. they need to stop with the smoke and mirrors and actually put some time and effort into getting this done. Telling us we matter and then crapping all over us isn't a mixed message, it's LOUD and CLEAR.
  • hippiejonhippiejon Member Posts: 1,581 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I'm not even due for a 700 day anything.
    I just think that with the new forums.
    THIS thread should be kept alive.

    So, lemme just say , I wish they would get you guys your androids !!
    There that was on topic.
    And it pushes the thread away from merely Archived posts !!

    ITS ALIVE
  • metalbardmetalbard Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Not holding my breath on this one. I am well beyond my 700 day threshold. Yet for the most part I wasn't paying attention and didn't know that there was an android available. The circumstances for which cryptic finds itself I learned not to expect much too soon. For those waiting expect a somewhat lengthily wait time.
    IV4N_R4D151CH[SIGPIC]"To watch a train wreck in motion, is an enlightening experience. Especially when it seems to be happening in slow motion."[/SIGPIC] LOCATION: Amongst the wreckage.
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    There, now I can keep this up to date again. Miraculously, the links still work!!


    1. First off, I think the veteran players need an apology, and not from JHeinig who has done everything in his power, but from the costume artist that dropped the ball or the supervisor that has made this vet reward a low priority.
    2. Second, if veteran players are as valued as some say, the costumes for the Android BOFF variants need to be made as soon as possible (we are approaching the 900-day vet reward).
    3. Third, players will need some assurances that such issues with veteran subscribers will not crop up again, i.e. take the back seat all the time, even it is just face talk. To the subscribing player base the Veteran Rewards are a show of appreciation from Cryptic, when these are not followed through on it translates to a lack of appreciation which leads to animosity.

    700-Day Android BOFF Veteran Reward Chronology (meant as a consolidated post for the ease of following the issue):
    • Several posts are made in the 500-day veteran reward thread.
      • 10-3-2011 - JHeinig alludes to a unique BOFF with a special trait when this discussion was about a BOFF replacing the 250 emblem reward. Whether this later became the 700-day Android is probably up for debate.
      • 10-3-2011 - JHeinig sets a personal goal to have it in during the F2P beta. I believe the Android Engineer BOFF did hit then.
      • 10-3-2011 - JHeinig answers a question that he would not do the Android BOFF any other way than customizable; male and female; engineering, tactical, and science. Our first inclination of how he envisions the vet reward.
    • Now we get into the old 700-day Android Thread.
      • 12-15-2011 - Certain tech hurdles are announced with reclaimable BOFFs
      • 12-15-2011 - Because it works as an unlock, unlike C-Store BOFFS, you can reclaim it if discarded.
      • 12-15-2011 - Alert to players to get the Male Engineer now, that if the tech hurdle is achieved we can discard and reclaim one of the six.
      • 12-15-2011 - Illustrates the exact technical problem that needs to be overcome and presents a solution to avoid it by putting the Androids in a "unique group".
      • 12-15-2011 - Provides detail of what is meant by needing new tech to overcome the issue.
      • 12-22-2011 - The necessary tech update is received, JHenig hopes to have the Android BOFF variants up after the holidays. There was much rejoicing!
    • And so we move to a New 700-day Android Vet-Reward thread
      • 1-9-2012 - JHeinig had to focus on features for the 2800 FE but has not forgotten about us. The Android BOFF variants are a priority
      • 1-9-2012 - The BOFFs are all made, ready to go, the new tech is recognized properly. Needs to find time to hook up the BOFF assignments so we can choose them.
      • 1-10-2012 - JHeinig takes some player grief in stride :).
    • Now back to the old 700-day Android thread.
      • 1-29-2012 - While in the office on a Sunday, and probably setting up the hookups and doing his own Q&A, JHeinig quickly alerts us that there is a tech bug and a costume issue that needs sorting. The tech will require programming and the costume will require art.
      • 1-29-2012 - Informs players that bugs do happen and it is better to fix them before things are pushed live.
      • 1-30-2012 - JHeinig gives players more details about the tech bug, that it makes the Android BOFFs uncomissionable.
    • Now we move to another thread on News on Android Boffs.
      • 2-13-2012 - JHeinig is still waiting on the costume variants.
      • 2-13-2012 - The tech issue is sorted out but it does require internal testing.
    • Now we move back again to ye old 700-day Android thread.
      • 3-19-2012 - Jheinig has the necessary tech and will hook up the Android BOFFs when he has the costumes.
      • 3-19-2012 - Unfortunately JHeinig informs us that production still has not begun on the costumes at this point. Don't shoot the messenger he has kept us well informed.
      • 3-19-2012 - He tells us the plan if we have already selected the Male Engineering Android to get one of the forthcoming others.
      • 3-20-2012 - JHeinig tells us there is a big difference between having the data made (pun intended?) and the costumes made.
      • 3-23-2012 - He also informs us it will need to go to QA for testing when the costumes are made.
      • 3-23-2012 - He also informs us he has no control over the schedule and takes more criticism in stride.
      • 4-19-2012 - Again the messenger takes some heat but still informs us there is nothing he can do to move the Android BOFF variants forward until he has the costumes.
    • June Ask Cryptic
      • 6-12-2012 - Q: (GT01) What happened to the extra Android BOFF options? We were informed that we?€™d not only get male and female Androids to choose from, but that we?€™d also have Tactical and Science branch officers to choose from too.
        Dstahl: This question required some investigation to determine what happened. Turns out that at the time there was an issue that prevented those additions from happening. That issue appears to be resolved in Season 6 and so now it boils down to having one of the developers revisit this and put in the options.
  • angelsilhouetteangelsilhouette Member Posts: 24
    edited June 2012
    There, now I can keep this up to date again. Miraculously, the links still work!!


    1. First off, I think the veteran players need an apology, and not from JHeinig who has done everything in his power, but from the costume artist that dropped the ball or the supervisor that has made this vet reward a low priority.

    This is if you take what he said at face value as opposed to what stahl said later, which reflected no issue with artwork or costuming, instead implying that the issue was that they were somehow incompatible with the current system and once season 6 hits, they would be OK to add.

    Who to believe? Was heinig just blowing smoke up our arses and pushing blame onto someone else? Was stahl?

    Who knows besides them? You can choose to believe either of them or neither of them, but you can't necessarily prove that either is telling the truth.
  • genericiigenericii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    This is if you take what he said at face value as opposed to what stahl said later, which reflected no issue with artwork or costuming, instead implying that the issue was that they were somehow incompatible with the current system and once season 6 hits, they would be OK to add.

    Who to believe? Was heinig just blowing smoke up our arses and pushing blame onto someone else? Was stahl?

    Who knows besides them? You can choose to believe either of them or neither of them, but you can't necessarily prove that either is telling the truth.


    At this point I really don't care if there was accidental or intentional misinformation, I just want the variants we were promised over 6 months ago.
  • genericiigenericii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    metalbard wrote: »
    Not holding my breath on this one. I am well beyond my 700 day threshold. Yet for the most part I wasn't paying attention and didn't know that there was an android available. The circumstances for which cryptic finds itself I learned not to expect much too soon. For those waiting expect a somewhat lengthily wait time.


    Right there with you, but I would argue that 6+ months is already a lengthy wait time. :frown:
  • genericiigenericii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    ... 825 Days (for me)... and counting (and still waiting).


    880 days for me. :frown:
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    This is if you take what he said at face value as opposed to what stahl said later, which reflected no issue with artwork or costuming, instead implying that the issue was that they were somehow incompatible with the current system and once season 6 hits, they would be OK to add.

    Who to believe? Was heinig just blowing smoke up our arses and pushing blame onto someone else? Was stahl?

    Who knows besides them? You can choose to believe either of them or neither of them, but you can't necessarily prove that either is telling the truth.

    Where is this letter that Stahl said there was no issue with artwork or costuming? If something else exists that I have missed int he timeline point me to it. All I have seen Stahl refer to it as an "issue" which is so broad it could mean anything JHenig has told us and more. I see no incompatbility in their statements. One person is being very specific and the other is speaking very broadly.
  • genericiigenericii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Where is this letter that Stahl said there was no issue with artwork or costuming? If something else exists that I have missed int he timeline point me to it. All I have seen Stahl refer to it as an "issue" which is so broad it could mean anything JHenig has told us and more. I see no incompatbility in their statements. One person is being very specific and the other is speaking very broadly.


    http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?name=sto-node-3223

    In the June 2012 Ask Cryptic Dan Stahl said:
    Dstahl: This question required some investigation to determine what happened. Turns out that at the time there was an issue that prevented those additions from happening. That issue appears to be resolved in Season 6 and so now it boils down to having one of the developers revisit this and put in the options.

    While you are right that he doesn't specify a "tech" issue, it's hard to deny that it's intimated that the code didn't work in season 5 but the changes in season 6 "resolved" that issue. I think the fact that he uses the phrase "one of the developers" and not "one of the artists" helped to lead people to the "tech" assumption.

    Yes it's true, this is an assumption, but why are people here assuming what went wrong? Simple, because - as usual - we're never given a simple, straight answer from the majority of people at Cryptic. The few times a dev has taken it upon themselves to jump on and give a simple, straight answer, they're usually shut down by "others". I really don't want to specify more than that for fear my post would be deleted for stepping over a line that constanly moves.

    Speaking just for me (but I believe the vast majority in this thread feel the same), all I really want is an estimate on when these variants will be added, and updates if something keeps them from missing that date. I really don't care why they're being held up.
  • harveycloneharveyclone Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Keep this post going
  • drumknottdrumknott Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Glad to see this thread hasn't died in the forum upheaval.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Hello, I'm PatricianVetinari, using my alt-Silver account to access these new forums (as I'm not yet willing to PW link/convert my main/LTS account). To say I'm disappointed with this "conversion" event would be an understatement.
    (Is there a way to make my text align next to the sig pic, instead of after/under it?)
  • theindefatigabletheindefatigable Member Posts: 351 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    drumknott wrote: »
    Glad to see this thread hasn't died in the forum upheaval.

    Aye. Our custom avatars are gone, our join dates are gone, and now I'm going to have to jump through hoops to buy c-points instead of being able to just click on a few buttons in-game. I knew this was inevitable but I had hoped the conversion would have been better.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
    Founding member, Special Service Squadron
    "Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
  • genericiigenericii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    drumknott wrote: »
    Glad to see this thread hasn't died in the forum upheaval.


    I'm sure there are other people here who feel the same way. I know I'm not letting this issue die without some kind of resolution.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Season 6 should be out very soon on Tribble so we should know if we can let this thread finally rest in peace assuming that the only holdup is Season 6. Meaning all the coding and art is done for the Season 6 build.
  • brigadooombrigadooom Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    starkaos wrote: »
    Season 6 should be out very soon on Tribble so we should know if we can let this thread finally rest in peace assuming that the only holdup is Season 6. Meaning all the coding and art is done for the Season 6 build.

    I'm sure there'll be some other issue that will appear that will delay it for s7, or it'll be constantly put on the backburner in lieu of something more important throughout all of s6.
    ----
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Hopefully, Marauding BOs get fixed at the same time. You can't even edit their costumes.

    I have a workaround but my workaround probably is best left unshared as it unlocks a lot of costumes that aren't intended (ie. BOs in Omega Force, BOs in off duty, some cross faction costumes). Not everyone has my workaround and I don't think Cryptic would want it out there since it not ONLY fixes the issue but unlocks stuff that's unintended.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Checked the Season 6 tribble build and still only the male engineer android is available. Could be possible that some future patch between now and launch will have it, but chances are it will be after Season 6 launch.
  • brigadooombrigadooom Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    starkaos wrote: »
    Checked the Season 6 tribble build and still only the male engineer android is available. Could be possible that some future patch between now and launch will have it, but chances are it will be after Season 6 launch.

    And Season 7, 8, 9...
    ----
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • brigadooombrigadooom Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Hopefully, Marauding BOs get fixed at the same time. You can't even edit their costumes.

    I have a workaround but my workaround probably is best left unshared as it unlocks a lot of costumes that aren't intended (ie. BOs in Omega Force, BOs in off duty, some cross faction costumes). Not everyone has my workaround and I don't think Cryptic would want it out there since it not ONLY fixes the issue but unlocks stuff that's unintended.

    Intriguing. :tongue:
    ----
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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