There is no high horse here from any one side more than the other. You've already agreed that people should voice concerns and that is the way to affect change. The continual spouting of people wanting something for nothing is a misnomer. The whole point of paying a continual subscription is paying to play something that you continually want to play. Despite Stormshade listing the 'favours' that have been done for the playerbase for 'no extra charge', the fact is, that since the initial purchase of the game, every month is an extra charge to pay to play something you already paid for, unless content is added in relation to the subscription. If not, it may as well have been a single player game for the one off box fee, then offer DLC of all these C store items.
The point is, seasonal updates are not a gift, they are required for the game to continue to keep people paying. The latest C store announcements may be ancillary to that, but with season 2 on the verge, there is no reason to be using ships as a stealth tax against those that are here for IP related gameplay rather than including them in the seasonal update in the first place. Particularly since the game is content light in the first place.
You're ignoring that there is coercion. How many people have stated in almost all of these threads that they really do enjoy the game itself? Now how many say they came to this game because of the Star Trek IP?
The coercion begins at the title; even more so for those that took the plunge on a LTS and then find the game they're playing has little bearing to the Star Trek they know. Then comes the insult to injury when canon specific items are subsciption exclusive. If it was the opposite way round, and the canon bits were in the updates, but the Cryptic designed stuff was C store, most of the complaints wouldn't be here.
The above paragraph in its entirety is hyperbole and a waste of typing.
Exactly right. It is your opinion only. Some are not worried about the game changing elements. You could say that is a strawman to draw attention to the fact people need a reason to make Cryptic rethink the store, but the complaints over canon items still stand.
For the reord, I am not one of those people. I won't buy any of the ships anyway; not just on principle of the extra cost, but because I'm also one of the people that's currently enjoying the game for what it is.
But think on this:
With the way the game is right now, it could easily have been something else and no one would know the difference.
Stargate worlds died a death. Cryptic might as well have aquired that licence instead, change spacedock for Cheyenne mountain, drop a gate inside and when you go through, you get your instance loading screen and on the other side you do a little pew pew just like we have now, and go back home. Mission done.
Unlock space combat by buying a Prometheus or Daedalus on the C store and game complete.
The game we're playing is more Stargate than Star Trek is what I'm saying.
But anyway, that's a facetious argument and the simple fact is, the game does not live up to the 'true to canon' words of Jack Emmert in the original announcement for the game, and it's salt in the wounds to then put beloved Star Trek items in the C store.
Thank you. You have done very politely what I no longer have the patience for. Suffice it to say that I am eagerly awaiting S2 but will no longer pay for any content released from the C-Store. It is what it is...
I'm in total agreement with you Mark.
What concerns me most is 2 very strong sci fi IPs.
You cna bet your life Bioware are monitoring everything that goes on over here, and with the forum outrages being highlighted on other sites, it's not a secret that the ST playerbase is upset.
Add wow's Cataclysm to the upcomming release of TOR, and this game looks like it'll see some very dry months. Those like me that spent a lot of time in wow will undoutedly pick up Cataclysm, and I'll most likely drop this for the period of time I go back. Do that again for the TOR relase, and there's a chance that either one of those will keep people from coming back here at all.
I would rather that didn't happen, but people will only take so much.
I know. I would rather that it did'nt happen either, but my wallet and I will take a break next month, catch up on EQ2, PotBS and spend some quality time popping heads in APB. Mafia 2 is coming and after that maybe I'll take a peek and see what's still shakin'.
the c-store would work if the game worked... in my opinion, you sell a car that runs before you start putting floor mats and stearing wheel covers in it...
right now as it is, you can look on the forums and find several posts about issues, glitches, parts of the game that just are not working (like the referal program bennies), and see that a) they have been issues for 2 plus months and b) after 2 plus months, the problems still have not been fixed. stf's still regularly bug on me, and im scared to see how buggy the new ones are.
also the game was released unfinished... the game started with a big booming amount of paying subscribers. but then (because of the lack of content, the c-store, and the constant buggy state of the game) people started leaving... as a fleet leader and part of a larger fleet movement, i hear, and see all of these people leaving the game. in my opinion cryptic cant afford to sell anything at this point, they need to make it available in patches as free content to keep the player base healthy.... again they sold us a car with no gas in it...
further more, for all of you who think that the c store helps bring more content forward, and helps move the game along... there is a lack of free content right now, this is all stuff that should be released with patches as regularly useable content. i know its like kicking adead horse, but cryptic cant afford to sell stuff when they dont have the stuff to keep us entertained.
also, as quoted several times, the c-store was supposed to be for skin upgrades and cosmetics only, i dont mind all the xtra char. slots, or that kind of content at all, what i do mind is the galaxy x being on the c-store, its not just a skin but content.. it was a unique ship that should have been available to all, just like the excelsior and the nebula... those arnt skins, they are new ships with new builds.... shame on cryptic for being dishonest about their prior claims of how the c store would work.
if this game flops, it will be mostly because of the c-store. imho.
Thank you. You have done very politely what I no longer have the patience for. Suffice it to say that I am eagerly awaiting S2 but will no longer pay for any content released from the C-Store. It is what it is...
Lol. You never got my point did you? This statement was my point exactly. Don't buy it if you don't agree with it but there's no point ranting and raving and whining about it.
There is no high horse here from any one side more than the other. You've already agreed that people should voice concerns and that is the way to affect change. The continual spouting of people wanting something for nothing is a misnomer. The whole point of paying a continual subscription is paying to play something that you continually want to play. Despite Stormshade listing the 'favours' that have been done for the playerbase for 'no extra charge', the fact is, that since the initial purchase of the game, every month is an extra charge to pay to play something you already paid for, unless content is added in relation to the subscription. If not, it may as well have been a single player game for the one off box fee, then offer DLC of all these C store items.
The point is, seasonal updates are not a gift, they are required for the game to continue to keep people paying. The latest C store announcements may be ancillary to that, but with season 2 on the verge, there is no reason to be using ships as a stealth tax against those that are here for IP related gameplay rather than including them in the seasonal update in the first place. Particularly since the game is content light in the first place.
Of course. The point was made against the endless screaming and ranting and tantrum throwing. I agree, we're paying for all this stuff. Does that mean we're entitled to have everything that we see fit, because of the pittance we pay? Do the people that want the NX-01 in the game have the devs falling over themselves to make it happen because it's being paid for? We pay to play in Cryptic's version of the ST universe, love it or hate it. The monthly fee is there for mainentance and for the regular Season updates, which we have been getting. That has been what I said all along. A stealth tax implies an enforced purchase as in that you have to buy it otherwise there are serious consequences. There is not. The only consequence that will arise if you don't buy the Nebula or Excelsior is that you will not have the Nebula or Excelsior. The game will not suddenly become unplayable, of if bought, the game will not magically become the be-all end-all of Star Trek games. The game has its faults, I would be the first to say, but it does not hinge on the purchase of a single facet, not feature, but facet.
The Nebula and Excelsior are not required for IP-related gameplay. If you take the serious route, Starfleet does not let you pick and choose from their ships which one you would command. If you want to take the less serious route, there are other, more heavily featured vessels already in the game that constitutes the majority of the IP. Going this way would mean that the smallest, ship, in the most insignificant episode should be added into the game for IP's sake. Again. it is an option. If you feel like you will die if you can't fly an Excelsior, then buy one. If you don't agree with paying for it, don't.
This is not content. It's a facet as I have said. Do you really need to have it to have rich, enjoyable gameplay? The content is in the mechanics and the functions of the game, all of which we have access to for the monthly subscription and the new mechanics which will be included in Season 2. This is a redress of ships. They're still cruisers. They still have weapons slots and bridge crew slots and consoles, all things that are in all other vessels.
You're ignoring that there is coercion. How many people have stated in almost all of these threads that they really do enjoy the game itself? Now how many say they came to this game because of the Star Trek IP?
The coercion begins at the title; even more so for those that took the plunge on a LTS and then find the game they're playing has little bearing to the Star Trek they know. Then comes the insult to injury when canon specific items are subsciption exclusive. If it was the opposite way round, and the canon bits were in the updates, but the Cryptic designed stuff was C store, most of the complaints wouldn't be here.
Again there is no coercion. There is incentive but no coercion. You buy the game to play the game. It's Cryptic's version of the game. If you buy Legcay, would you say that you thought you were buying Bridge Commander? No. You buy a game to play it the way it was made. If you have other reasons to buy the game then those are your own, not obligated to be supported by the developers, i.e. all the fan mods for all the other games out there. Otherwise I suppose you could say that a couple of people bought the game wanting to play with player crews. Should the developers throw all the gameplay away and implement dull player crews for those few people?
You forget that canon-specific means that it was designed and developed by someone else. Someone else who will have to be credited and who will have to be paid for the use of their work. That is expensive. If they gave us the option, Nebula and Excelsior to be included in Season update, but because of that they didn't have the wherewithal to include the interiors, would you be happy? The C-store happened to bump it up the development schedule and we should be glad that it's here at this time, If the C-store wasn't there, if they weren't going to make more money off it, you think we'd be seeing it now? We'd probably see it next year if we were lucky. Cryptic-designed stuff has no appeal to you in the C-store, they have diminished value, but they also cost less. Stuff costing less would be easier to implement in a regular update than stuff that you have to pay someone else for don't you think?
People's motives are a funny thing. The game was out in beta to be tried before an LTS was introduced. so how could you say that they didn't know what they were buying? They chose. The ramifications of their choice remain with them and it is no one else's responsibility to ensure that their choices are validated. I bought an LTS, and while I can't say that I'm absolutely happy with my experience, I'm not complaining about it. I knew what I signed up for before I bought it.
Exactly right. It is your opinion only. Some are not worried about the game changing elements. You could say that is a strawman to draw attention to the fact people need a reason to make Cryptic rethink the store, but the complaints over canon items still stand.
So answer me this. When this goes through and Cryptic makes a ton of money selling the Nebula and the Excelsior. When the time comes that they decide to put content updates on the C-store, will the fact that there has been all this uproar and still they made lots of money, help the arguments against the addition of game-changing elements in store?
For the reord, I am not one of those people. I won't buy any of the ships anyway; not just on principle of the extra cost, but because I'm also one of the people that's currently enjoying the game for what it is.
But think on this:
With the way the game is right now, it could easily have been something else and no one would know the difference.
Stargate worlds died a death. Cryptic might as well have aquired that licence instead, change spacedock for Cheyenne mountain, drop a gate inside and when you go through, you get your instance loading screen and on the other side you do a little pew pew just like we have now, and go back home. Mission done.
Unlock space combat by buying a Prometheus or Daedalus on the C store and game complete.
The game we're playing is more Stargate than Star Trek is what I'm saying.
But anyway, that's a facetious argument and the simple fact is, the game does not live up to the 'true to canon' words of Jack Emmert in the original announcement for the game, and it's salt in the wounds to then put beloved Star Trek items in the C store.
That sadly, I can agree with. It isn't living up to my expectation of what a Star Trek MMO or even a ST game should be too. This is why we need to be bugging the devs about new things to add to the game, refinining it into the game it should be. Not arguing over who should have access to a couple of bits and pieces.
Of course. The point was made against the endless screaming and ranting and tantrum throwing. I agree, we're paying for all this stuff. Does that mean we're entitled to have everything that we see fit, because of the pittance we pay?
You call it a pittance, I call it the same as all the other MMOs that do not have a C store model.
Do you get what you pay for? It seems not since Guild wars is vastly superior and was right from day 1 with no fee at all. If STO can't hold a decent number of those monthly subs in order to operate, it says more about the game than the price.
Do the people that want the NX-01 in the game have the devs falling over themselves to make it happen because it's being paid for? We pay to play in Cryptic's version of the ST universe, love it or hate it. The monthly fee is there for mainentance and for the regular Season updates, which we have been getting. That has been what I said all along. A stealth tax implies an enforced purchase as in that you have to buy it otherwise there are serious consequences. There is not. The only consequence that will arise if you don't buy the Nebula or Excelsior is that you will not have the Nebula or Excelsior. The game will not suddenly become unplayable, of if bought, the game will not magically become the be-all end-all of Star Trek games. The game has its faults, I would be the first to say, but it does not hinge on the purchase of a single facet, not feature, but facet.
The argument against the C store is not about a single facet. It is about the perception of Cryptic's preferred practices in relation to what is released where. Something you highlight and I answer further in your post.
The Nebula and Excelsior are not required for IP-related gameplay. If you take the serious route, Starfleet does not let you pick and choose from their ships which one you would command. If you want to take the less serious route, there are other, more heavily featured vessels already in the game that constitutes the majority of the IP. Going this way would mean that the smallest, ship, in the most insignificant episode should be added into the game for IP's sake. Again. it is an option. If you feel like you will die if you can't fly an Excelsior, then buy one. If you don't agree with paying for it, don't.
Again, the item does not matter. The simple fact is that in a game with very little to do anyway, you at least want to do nothing in the things you loved from the show that made you want to play the game in the first place. You're back to hyperbole again and begging the question with unrealistic skewing of what people are arguing for.
The Ecelsior and the Nebula were part of an official Cryptic poll. A poll that asked players to vote which ship they would most like to see in game. Not to ask which ship players would like to see in game flown by those that bought it on the C store.
This is not content. It's a facet as I have said. Do you really need to have it to have rich, enjoyable gameplay? The content is in the mechanics and the functions of the game, all of which we have access to for the monthly subscription and the new mechanics which will be included in Season 2. This is a redress of ships. They're still cruisers. They still have weapons slots and bridge crew slots and consoles, all things that are in all other vessels.
Again there is no coercion. There is incentive but no coercion. You buy the game to play the game. It's Cryptic's version of the game. If you buy Legcay, would you say that you thought you were buying Bridge Commander? No. You buy a game to play it the way it was made. If you have other reasons to buy the game then those are your own, not obligated to be supported by the developers, i.e. all the fan mods for all the other games out there. Otherwise I suppose you could say that a couple of people bought the game wanting to play with player crews. Should the developers throw all the gameplay away and implement dull player crews for those few people?
Ignored for reasons given further on.
You forget that canon-specific means that it was designed and developed by someone else. Someone else who will have to be credited and who will have to be paid for the use of their work. That is expensive.
That's a propagandised argument. They made this game adorned with the Star Trek tag. What it costs them to realise that product is not my concern, and if it's beyond a company's scope to deliver the product, don't do it. It's that simple. This is not STSTBNQO (similar to Star Trek but not quite online)
If they gave us the option, Nebula and Excelsior to be included in Season update, but because of that they didn't have the wherewithal to include the interiors, would you be happy? The C-store happened to bump it up the development schedule and we should be glad that it's here at this time, If the C-store wasn't there, if they weren't going to make more money off it, you think we'd be seeing it now? We'd probably see it next year if we were lucky. Cryptic-designed stuff has no appeal to you in the C-store, they have diminished value, but they also cost less. Stuff costing less would be easier to implement in a regular update than stuff that you have to pay someone else for don't you think?
I think I've said before, though I don't know if it's this thread, I don't care about the C store ships. I won't be buying them. Having said that, I don't buy the oft cited quote from Cryptic that the C store allows them to give us party favours. They're fully aware of what they're doing. And an interior that does nothing more than allow you to use your dance emotes somewhere other than on your bridge is of no use anyway. It remains to be seen what happens there.
You're right, Cryptic designs have less value, and that is the emotional ransom they're playing on those that are here because of the IP.
People's motives are a funny thing. The game was out in beta to be tried before an LTS was introduced. so how could you say that they didn't know what they were buying? They chose. The ramifications of their choice remain with them and it is no one else's responsibility to ensure that their choices are validated. I bought an LTS, and while I can't say that I'm absolutely happy with my experience, I'm not complaining about it. I knew what I signed up for before I bought it.
Unfortunately I need to disregard this entire block above because it's just your reiterated argument from omniscience which ignores any subjective reason that any other player might have for playing a game based on this IP.
I will say this though, the argument that without the C store, we'd have to wait and wait for any extra in game items is a fallacy. The various ST uniforms were available long before release, and were not added into regular gameplay for further disemination. The reasons for this might possibly include appeasement to those that had them as exclusives but it still goes to highlight C store over game enhancement, and I don't believe for one minute that they weren't going to the C store anyway.
So answer me this. When this goes through and Cryptic makes a ton of money selling the Nebula and the Excelsior. When the time comes that they decide to put content updates on the C-store, will the fact that there has been all this uproar and still they made lots of money, help the arguments against the addition of game-changing elements in store?
Of course it won't help, but all you've done is highlight a very slippery slope that unfortunately could very well be the future of this game, and furthermore, your point goes more to those that buy the items, not those that voice objection. I ask you in return, if someone does
feel slighted by what Cryptic have done with the C store, is it better to voice that, or should everyone keep quiet? It's a rhetorical and loaded question, since to answer anything other than to voice our opinion goes against the idea of a feedback forum anyway.
That sadly, I can agree with. It isn't living up to my expectation of what a Star Trek MMO or even a ST game should be too. This is why we need to be bugging the devs about new things to add to the game, refinining it into the game it should be. Not arguing over who should have access to a couple of bits and pieces.
Here you are talking semantics. You're happy to have things added to the game, as long it isn't things being discussed here. I don't understand that rationale. You and I already covered this elsewhere. The existing items are suitable as in game rewards to encourage people to do the content. Instead of agreeing, you posited that they could add different rewards instead. Why?
I'll say this for the umpteenth time: this game has no reason to continue playing once you reach max level.
There is no timesink at all, no pursuit of aquisition to advance your character through gear (either dropped or crafted).
The C store, and anything like it, is the epitome of welfare items. Some argue their time in-game factor and like that they can have what others have through time spent. Fair enough, but where will you go in your shiny ship? You have no reason to fly anywhere since you've seen it all before and have no reason to see it again.
I think you're arguing your side for the sake of arguing anyway. If all the content was added into the price of subsciption, you'd be as happy about it as anyone else. I doubt very much you'd be posting asking why we couldn't pay for extras instead.
You call it a pittance, I call it the same as all the other MMOs that do not have a C store model.
Do you get what you pay for? It seems not since Guild wars is vastly superior and was right from day 1 with no fee at all. If STO can't hold a decent number of those monthly subs in order to operate, it says more about the game than the price.
The argument against the C store is not about a single facet. It is about the perception of Cryptic's preferred practices in relation to what is released where. Something you highlight and I answer further in your post.
Again, the item does not matter. The simple fact is that in a game with very little to do anyway, you at least want to do nothing in the things you loved from the show that made you want to play the game in the first place. You're back to hyperbole again and begging the question with unrealistic skewing of what people are arguing for.
The Ecelsior and the Nebula were part of an official Cryptic poll. A poll that asked players to vote which ship they would most like to see in game. Not to ask which ship players would like to see in game flown by those that bought it on the C store.
Ignored for reasons given further on.
That's a propagandised argument. They made this game adorned with the Star Trek tag. What it costs them to realise that product is not my concern, and if it's beyond a company's scope to deliver the product, don't do it. It's that simple. This is not STSTBNQO (similar to Star Trek but not quite online)
I think I've said before, though I don't know if it's this thread, I don't care about the C store ships. I won't be buying them. Having said that, I don't buy the oft cited quote from Cryptic that the C store allows them to give us party favours. They're fully aware of what they're doing. And an interior that does nothing more than allow you to use your dance emotes somewhere other than on your bridge is of no use anyway. It remains to be seen what happens there.
You're right, Cryptic designs have less value, and that is the emotional ransom they're playing on those that are here because of the IP.
Unfortunately I need to disregard this entire block above because it's just your reiterated argument from omniscience which ignores any subjective reason that any other player might have for playing a game based on this IP.
I will say this though, the argument that without the C store, we'd have to wait and wait for any extra in game items is a fallacy. The various ST uniforms were available long before release, and were not added into regular gameplay for further disemination. The reasons for this might possibly include appeasement to those that had them as exclusives but it still goes to highlight C store over game enhancement, and I don't believe for one minute that they weren't going to the C store anyway.
Here you are talking semantics. You're happy to have things added to the game, as long it isn't things being discussed here. I don't understand that rationale. You and I already covered this elsewhere. The existing items are suitable as in game rewards to encourage people to do the content. Instead of agreeing, you posited that they could add different rewards instead. Why?
I'll say this for the umpteenth time: this game has no reason to continue playing once you reach max level.
There is no timesink at all, no pursuit of aquisition to advance your character through gear (either dropped or crafted).
The C store, and anything like it, is the epitome of welfare items. Some argue their time in-game factor and like that they can have what others have through time spent. Fair enough, but where will you go in your shiny ship? You have no reason to fly anywhere since you've seen it all before and have no reason to see it again.
I think you're arguing your side for the sake of arguing anyway. If all the content was added into the price of subsciption, you'd be as happy about it as anyone else. I doubt very much you'd be posting asking why we couldn't pay for extras instead.
You'll find that you and I actually agree on a lot. The problem is we're arguing on different perspectives. My point is not whether or not the C-store is a good or bad thing. I submit points against those that continually whine and yell and complain and ragequit over the fact that Cryptic has chosen one option over the other. I perhaps exaggerate the way people are doing it somewhat, but can you deny that that's the way it's going with all the ranting?
I'm all for more content and more discussion as to what the content should be and how it should be implemented, but the main thing is discussion. Most of the people posting on the C-store are just complaining and ranting, not actually discussing. If they could consider the factors, which I try to point out and you say are not your concern, and discuss solutions as to how it could be resolved in their favour then you'll get no argument from me. Instead we get posts on what the game is not, which company is doing a better job at other games, how we're being nickeled and dimed.... need i go on?
Of course it won't help, but all you've done is highlight a very slippery slope that unfortunately could very well be the future of this game, and furthermore, your point goes more to those that buy the items, not those that voice objection. I ask you in return, if someone does
feel slighted by what Cryptic have done with the C store, is it better to voice that, or should everyone keep quiet? It's a rhetorical and loaded question, since to answer anything other than to voice our opinion goes against the idea of a feedback forum anyway.
I wasn't talking about the buyers. I was talking about the people who will complain and then go ahead and buy it anyway. That sort of hypocracy just erodes all credibility in what they say. Why should Cryptic believe the arguments when it's not supported by the numbers? I say again. If you don't like it, don't buy it and perhaps state why, not yell like the heavens are falling, then cave anyway when the world isn't handed to you on a silver platter.
Here you are talking semantics. You're happy to have things added to the game, as long it isn't things being discussed here. I don't understand that rationale. You and I already covered this elsewhere. The existing items are suitable as in game rewards to encourage people to do the content. Instead of agreeing, you posited that they could add different rewards instead. Why?
Because presumably they've done all this work and they've done all the balancing of the spreadsheets and stuff and they figure this is the way they have to implement the content? I doubt they will backtrack on their stated program. That would show lack of resolve and a willingness to compromise what had already been decided. I wouldn't trust a company that does this.
I wasn't talking about the buyers. I was talking about the people who will complain and then go ahead and buy it anyway. That sort of hypocracy just erodes all credibility in what they say. Why should Cryptic believe the arguments when it's not supported by the numbers? I say again. If you don't like it, don't buy it and perhaps state why, not yell like the heavens are falling, then cave anyway when the world isn't handed to you on a silver platter.
I really wasn't going to post again, but anyway.
We're in agreement on that. It is hypocrisy, but unfortunately it is also human nature.
It's the "I do this, but I do it reluctantly because I have no other option to get what I want" syndrome.
In this circumstance it shows the barrel the C store is, and how Cryptic know they've got a lot of people over it.
Something else I meant to say before but it slipped my mind. You just reminded me when you say we shouldn't be talking about what the game is not:
Cryptic took 2 years to make this game. They're proud of that fact, but is it a laudible achievement?
If they had done in 2 years what other companies took 4 or more to do, it would be really impressive.
But when you look at it, what they've done in 2 years is what others did possibly in 2 years. The difference is, they released what they had, rather than take the proper 4 years to make the game polished and complete. If proper developement time had been spent (and yes this is back to what if) I'd wager most of the complaints and the problems wouldn't be here anyway.
Also, you can't help but make comparisons with other products. Everything in life is a comparison to something that came before, and this should not be exempt. The game is lacking, both in play and in trekkiness, but instead of trying to fix that for those that are paying, and have paid up front, Cryptic are continually looking for more cash.
Heck, Klingons can't even scan anomalies. They could at least do that while they're scooting around systems so they could up the farming on a fed character.
I really wasn't going to post again, but anyway.
We're in agreement on that. It is hypocrisy, but unfortunately it is also human nature.
It's the "I do this, but I do it reluctantly because I have no other option to get what I want" syndrome.
In this circumstance it shows the barrel the C store is, and how Cryptic know they've got a lot of people over it.
Something else I meant to say before but it slipped my mind. You just reminded me when you say we shouldn't be talking about what the game is not:
Cryptic took 2 years to make this game. They're proud of that fact, but is it a laudible achievement?
If they had done in 2 years what other companies took 4 or more to do, it would be really impressive.
But when you look at it, what they've done in 2 years is what others did possibly in 2 years. The difference is, they released what they had, rather than take the proper 4 years to make the game polished and complete. If proper developement time had been spent (and yes this is back to what if) I'd wager most of the complaints and the problems wouldn't be here anyway.
Also, you can't help but make comparisons with other products. Everything in life is a comparison to something that came before, and this should not be exempt. The game is lacking, both in play and in trekkiness, but instead of trying to fix that for those that are paying, and have paid up front, Cryptic are continually looking for more cash.
Heck, Klingons can't even scan anomalies. They could at least do that while they're scooting around systems so they could up the farming on a fed character.
I'd almost totally agree with everything you say. There is a significant lack of polish and function in the game and perhaps it should have spend more time in the incubation chamber. Still what's done is done and there's no point in looking back and crying over spilt milk.
People's expectations need to be tempered though. They pick and choose the best things they like about the other games, ignore the faults and then hold STO up to these things and expect it to be everything. Is it any surprise that people get disappointed?
I suspect though that human nature being what it is, people will stil find something to complain about, even when everything is done for them. Case in point: the Galaxy-X fiasco. People complained about it being for Master Referrals only, so it's added to the C-store at a prohbitive price so that there would not be too many that bought it. People then complained about it being in the C-store. Then bought it. Then got tired of it, trashed it and moved on.
Lol. You never got my point did you? This statement was my point exactly. Don't buy it if you don't agree with it but there's no point ranting and raving and whining about it.
What a laugh...
I GOT your point. You are the one that is not getting it. As a consumer, I have a right to voice my displeasure with management. Whether you like it or not, this avenue gets exposure to the powers that be. Your displeasure at being forced (?) to view the 'rantings and whinings' (as you put it) are inconsequential. The reason we have taken to these forums is due to the nature of the business. For starters, it is an effective way to get a point across to management. Second, the ablility for an MMO company to recover from an exodus of people who just "quit for no reason" is almost impossible. And if that were to happen, the remnants would be here on these very same boards wailing like brats that the the population sucks, wondering why no one bothered to sound the alarm. Just as you accuse us of it, you can't be made happy either. No one here wants to punish Cryptic. They want Cryptic to see that there is something amiss and give them an opportunity to correct it.
In your case, I have simply run out of patience because you simply do not wish to acknowledge that anyone has an option to speak up. While 'vote-by-wallet' will most likely get the point across, it may kill the game which is not what anyone want. The only thing worse than Cryptics current marketing scheme is the fact that you seem to be fine with it. If you are, I'm sorry for you and that it all works out for you in th eend. But just aS you don't want to hear us, no one here particularly wants to hear you standing on your pedastal giving everyone lip service. If you don't like what we're talking about, find another thread. Get out and go play golf. take your own advice and play the game or find something else to do.
I GOT your point. You are the one that is not getting it. As a consumer, I have a right to voice my displeasure with management. Whether you like it or not, this avenue gets exposure to the powers that be. Your displeasure at being forced (?) to view the 'rantings and whinings' (as you put it) are inconsequential. The reason we have taken to these forums is due to the nature of the business. For starters, it is an effective way to get a point across to management. Second, the ablility for an MMO company to recover from an exodus of people who just "quit for no reason" is almost impossible. And if that were to happen, the remnants would be here on these very same boards wailing like brats that the the population sucks, wondering why no one bothered to sound the alarm. Just as you accuse us of it, you can't be made happy either. No one here wants to punish Cryptic. They want Cryptic to see that there is something amiss and give them an opportunity to correct it.
In your case, I have simply run out of patience because you simply do not wish to acknowledge that anyone has an option to speak up. While 'vote-by-wallet' will most likely get the point across, it may kill the game which is not what anyone want. The only thing worse than Cryptics current marketing scheme is the fact that you seem to be fine with it. If you are, I'm sorry for you and that it all works out for you in th eend. But just aS you don't want to hear us, no one here particularly wants to hear you standing on your pedastal giving everyone lip service. If you don't like what we're talking about, find another thread. Get out and go play golf. take your own advice and play the game or find something else to do.
Now please go and have yourself a nice day!
Has it occured to you that the all the fuss may actually drive people away? It gives people the impression that something is horribly wrong and that may just push someone who is thinking of leaving into actually leaving. Herd mentaility is a powerful thing.
It's not my displeasure that is the point here. I'm simply trying to show that it is not the most effective way of airing your views. Non-constructive criticism merely spoils things for everyone. By all means, rant all you want. It won't get you anywhere. Giving Cryptic an opportunity to correct mistakes is fine and dandy but the number of posts actually trying to fix the percieved issue is small compared to those that are crying and wailing or storming out in disgust.
I may be fine with Cryptic's marketing, to me they haven't done anything that bad yet and I don't percieve much loss by other people having things available to them. I play less intensely and there are many things in game that I will never see and that's fine by me. I don't need to have everything or do everything to be satisfied. In that respect I am fine. I'm just sorry not more people are.
The question here is not your right to speak up but how you speak up. Do you bemoan your loss without reason and when people try to explain or give possible solutions or present a contrary point of view, you tell them to shut up and shut them out? I think you do. I don't discourage you from debate. Far from it. I make points and I expect rebuttals to which I counter. You tell me "This is my point. I'm tired of yours. Now shut up!". I wonder how it is that I'm not listening but somehow you are when you fail actually address any points made and choose to live in denial.
Has it occured to you that the all the fuss may actually drive people away? It gives people the impression that something is horribly wrong and that may just push someone who is thinking of leaving into actually leaving. Herd mentaility is a powerful thing.
It's not my displeasure that is the point here. I'm simply trying to show that it is not the most effective way of airing your views. Non-constructive criticism merely spoils things for everyone. By all means, rant all you want. It won't get you anywhere. Giving Cryptic an opportunity to correct mistakes is fine and dandy but the number of posts actually trying to fix the percieved issue is small compared to those that are crying and wailing or storming out in disgust.
I may be fine with Cryptic's marketing, to me they haven't done anything that bad yet and I don't percieve much loss by other people having things available to them. I play less intensely and there are many things in game that I will never see and that's fine by me. I don't need to have everything or do everything to be satisfied. In that respect I am fine. I'm just sorry not more people are.
The question here is not your right to speak up but how you speak up. Do you bemoan your loss without reason and when people try to explain or give possible solutions or present a contrary point of view, you tell them to shut up and shut them out? I think you do. I don't discourage you from debate. Far from it. I make points and I expect rebuttals to which I counter. You tell me "This is my point. I'm tired of yours. Now shut up!". I wonder how it is that I'm not listening but somehow you are when you fail actually address any points made and choose to live in denial.
I am having a nice day. You have a nice dream.
ok if it drives people away, than that is cryptics fault... plain and simple... the forums shouldnt send people running, if you hop in game and have no problems with anything than you will stay regardless. further more i think your missing the big picture.. the point is that cryptic in a race to capture all the new audience members from the new movie released a game that was not only incomplete in that there was very little content and lots of redundant content... but also released a game that was not stable, had way to many flaws (after they got on stage at every trekkie convention and said that it would be the most accurate to cannon trek) which it has holes and flaws... were not complaining because they did a horrible job, its just they set the bar and are not able to reach it.
further more, the idea of selling content when there is a lack of content in an unfinished game is rediculous. if i were cryptic i would be like TRIBBLE, we need to release this content asap to keep us from losing any more people. and because they didnt do their job, and couldnt hold on to the multitude of people that left the game cause they released it unfinished, now those of us who hold on to hope that new content is coming have to pay for it to keep the game and content coming...
ive said on other threads that i wouldnt mind paying a 15 doller subscription fee, as long as it contends with other games that are charging that much... and cryptic does not touch other mmo's with a stick. it should be a 5-7 doller a month fee cause that is what it is worth, notice how i said its not worthless, just not worth what we put into it. it is disgusting to charge for content in a game where content is lacking, and its a ballsy maneuver on cryptics part...
i like the game, i think it has potential, but ive seen the c store go from being something that was just cosmetic to content, which means they will change it again and every patch will be on the c store for 50 bucks or something like that in the future... just some food for thought.
i personally love watching both sides of the discusion, both sides make points, but i feel that due to cryptics lack of quality its unfair to charge to raise the quality, i ask again, is there a lemon law for mmo's lol...
Has it occured to you that the all the fuss may actually drive people away? Then that is most certainly something that Cryptoic should address, correct?It gives people the impression that something is horribly wrong and that may just push someone who is thinking of leaving into actually leaving. The fact that you cannot or will not acknowledge that this is the case is proof of your own 'point' having no merit.Herd mentaility is a powerful thing.
It's not my displeasure that is the point here. I'm simply trying to show that it is not the most effective way of airing your views. Non-constructive criticism merely spoils things for everyone. Quite frankly, you have not read through the material that has been presented since last Thursday. There are bad apples in every crowd.By all means, rant all you want. It won't get you anywhere.I do take offense at the fact that the only 2 words you appear to know how to use to refute anyone disagreeing with you is "rant & whine". Giving Cryptic an opportunity to correct mistakes is fine and dandy but the number of posts actually trying to fix the percieved issue is small compared to those that are crying and wailing or storming out in disgust.Type less, read more.
I may be fine with Cryptic's marketing, to me they haven't done anything that bad yet and I don't percieve much loss by other people having things available to them. That is you rviewpoint. I am happy that you are satisfied. However, many of the customer base are not and quite frankly, the needed resolution is for management to step up not one of it's satisfied customers. Leave the testimonials for a Tony Robbins event plaese.I play less intensely and there are many things in game that I will never see and that's fine by me. Great, good for you. Some are not happy with that expectation level.I don't need to have everything or do everything to be satisfied. In that respect I am fine. I'm just sorry not more people are.I really do not mean this to be rude, but people accepting this type of drivel is what breeds these type of business practices. You are now part of the problem and not the solution.
The question here is not your right to speak up but how you speak up. Do you bemoan your loss without reason and when people try to explain or give possible solutions or present a contrary point of view, you tell them to shut up and shut them out? I think you do Correctly stated, I have prestented my points, as have many others. You continue to dismiss us and our concerns. That is fine, you don't have to agree with us. But is has grown no-productive to have this discussion with you. . I don't discourage you from debate. Far from it. I make points and I expect rebuttals to which I counter. You tell me "This is my point. I'm tired of yours. Now shut up!". Please be allow me to be clear, I have in no way told you to 'shut up', I've simply asked that you go complain to someone that will be more receptive to your viewpoint. Hmm.. kind of what you keep telling me...I wonder how it is that I'm not listening but somehow you are when you fail actually address any points made and choose to live in denial.Ok, well, there you go. I have 'addressed' your points. I really do apologize that you think otherwise. I just do not feel that your argument has merit. And I quite frankly will never get a resolution of any of my issues by continually debating you or a fence post. That is the area that requires involvement by Cryptic, not client.
I am having a nice day. You have a nice dream.I won't even bother...
ok if it drives people away, than that is cryptics fault... plain and simple... the forums shouldnt send people running, if you hop in game and have no problems with anything than you will stay regardless. further more i think your missing the big picture.. the point is that cryptic in a race to capture all the new audience members from the new movie released a game that was not only incomplete in that there was very little content and lots of redundant content... but also released a game that was not stable, had way to many flaws (after they got on stage at every trekkie convention and said that it would be the most accurate to cannon trek) which it has holes and flaws... were not complaining because they did a horrible job, its just they set the bar and are not able to reach it.
further more, the idea of selling content when there is a lack of content in an unfinished game is rediculous. if i were cryptic i would be like TRIBBLE, we need to release this content asap to keep us from losing any more people. and because they didnt do their job, and couldnt hold on to the multitude of people that left the game cause they released it unfinished, now those of us who hold on to hope that new content is coming have to pay for it to keep the game and content coming...
ive said on other threads that i wouldnt mind paying a 15 doller subscription fee, as long as it contends with other games that are charging that much... and cryptic does not touch other mmo's with a stick. it should be a 5-7 doller a month fee cause that is what it is worth, notice how i said its not worthless, just not worth what we put into it. it is disgusting to charge for content in a game where content is lacking, and its a ballsy maneuver on cryptics part...
i like the game, i think it has potential, but ive seen the c store go from being something that was just cosmetic to content, which means they will change it again and every patch will be on the c store for 50 bucks or something like that in the future... just some food for thought.
i personally love watching both sides of the discusion, both sides make points, but i feel that due to cryptics lack of quality its unfair to charge to raise the quality, i ask again, is there a lemon law for mmo's lol...
Try again. I never said they charge to raise the quality of the content. I argued that the content being charged is seperate to the content that is being delivered via the Season patches, which is funded by our subscription, and which is the content that is supposed to reinvigorate and expand the game. The C-store content is basically extras, which are worth differently to different people. The content released on the C-store would not, if put into the current game for free, change the tone of the game nor improve the richness of the content. That is the job of the Season patches and that's what you should be looking at to make up for the lack of content in-game currently.
Has it occured to you that the all the fuss may actually drive people away? It gives people the impression that something is horribly wrong and that may just push someone who is thinking of leaving into actually leaving. Herd mentaility is a powerful thing.
Honestly? I'm one of them, and that's only been the case for the last day or so. I said before that I actually enjoy playing the game, but unlike some (those who bought LTS), the bad taste I have right now can be solved by me unsubscribing. It's not a good feeling. But...I'm a little old to ragequit. I haven't pressed the cancel button, and won't do so until I'm sure I want to step out.
It's not my displeasure that is the point here. I'm simply trying to show that it is not the most effective way of airing your views. Non-constructive criticism merely spoils things for everyone. By all means, rant all you want. It won't get you anywhere. Giving Cryptic an opportunity to correct mistakes is fine and dandy but the number of posts actually trying to fix the percieved issue is small compared to those that are crying and wailing or storming out in disgust.
I may be fine with Cryptic's marketing, to me they haven't done anything that bad yet and I don't percieve much loss by other people having things available to them. I play less intensely and there are many things in game that I will never see and that's fine by me. I don't need to have everything or do everything to be satisfied. In that respect I am fine. I'm just sorry not more people are.
The problem, as I have pointed out before, is this is an argument from omniscience. What that means is, you are attributing your view to the wide playerbase. This is how you feel, therefore it must be right. The same with your other argument that regardless how much people want canon stuff in the game, it doesn't need to be there to be a Star Trek game. On the face of it, it is correct, but this is a subjective discussion, not objective.
The opposition to your view is aimed at Cryptic, not you. You do not speak for them, and so in reality how you feel about the game is irrelevant. You have also brought up points about funding and how C store allows for quicker developement etc. but that is all supposition about what funds are allocated where, and how much of our subscriptions are apportioned to what area of developement. Cryptic aren't going to answer that, so it's not a point worth countering when you make it.
Of course, you could be dead right, and the game needs the C store. If so, they could be honest and say look, we bled members, and the store is helping keep the game afloat. They aren't going to say it, so there is no reason why this game shouldn't be held up against other MMOs of the same price. As you said before, others may have flaws, but we're here, not there. The critique is against the game we play, and the company who makes it.
Other MMOs that charge a subscription do so with no added extra charges for fluffy bits, so why does STO? Either subscription money is being reallocated to other projects, or else the subscription numbers have fallen so low that the standard price is not supporting the game. Or, and this is a big one, the game doesn't need the C store at all, and that is a blatant lie to excuse greed.
There we go. You deflect, evade and 'address' the issue. Just like you've been doing throughout the thread. I have not used rant and whine to refute any one. I'm saying that's what people have been doing. I never said that the replies anyone makes to me is a rant or whine. You're tired of this? I am too. Let's just leave it. I've stated my points and I can't defend them from you, seeing as you're not really disputing them.
I will say this though. At least my points have been consistent. I argue to defend one point of view. You argue to score points. To 'win'. Like when you said you didn't want to drive people away, then when I said that's what you're doing, you say that's the case and that's how you intend to get Cryptic to respond. How is driving people away giving Cryptic a chance to mend the error of their ways? Is the 'if I can't have it no one can' mentality that important to you?
im sorry i didnt type that correctly, i wasnt saying that you said that c store raises the quality.. that was just me moving on in te discussion...
however, im not against the c store, its just they made a statement that said cstore stuff would be cosmetic only when they introduced it... now you got tribbles that give in game buffs, starships with new weapons and cloaks, and two ships that should have been in the original game... and not just as skins, but as seperate stand alone starships...
again im not against the c store being used as it was intended, i thought it was a great idea, its just when the game lacks content, it should be the last thing you institute... it was a slap in the face to add content through it when the game its self was lacking content.. and as far as it not making the content any better.. say you have me who is on the fence right now abotu the game. i love it but it has not scratched that itch, and i for one cannot stay in a relationship where i am constantly lied too, and the dishes never get done (ie, c-store policy, content that was supposed to come that never does, they claimed that lore would be flawless and it isnt, and they have pushed back every release they say they were, also bigs dont get fixed, glitches constantly hamper game play, other parts of the game such as billing and the referal program either dont work, or give constant trouble (this is like the dishes never getting done lol.) i understand growing pains and heck, wow had a terrible first year too, but they didnt charge anyone for anything xtra till the game was as close to perfect as it would get.
say i build a car for someone, and they pay me to do so (such as we have with buying the game and paying a subscription) and it breaks down as they pull out of my driveway, i dont charge them to fix it... further more, i dont say while im at it you can buy fog lights off me, and a performance muffler, and snazzy new rims.. you get it running and when they are happy with it you offer up the xtras.
again guy, i didnt mean to make it look like you said anything, my arguments are not towards you but towards the powers to be so they might pull their heads out of their a***s and learn how economics and general buisness works...
Try again. I never said they charge to raise the quality of the content. I argued that the content being charged is seperate to the content that is being delivered via the Season patches, which is funded by our subscription, and which is the content that is supposed to reinvigorate and expand the game. The C-store content is basically extras, which are worth differently to different people. The content released on the C-store would not, if put into the current game for free, change the tone of the game nor improve the richness of the content. That is the job of the Season patches and that's what you should be looking at to make up for the lack of content in-game currently.
I have to say that I disagree with you 100% on every statement made there. As a sidenote, the lack of content needs to be addressed as well. One thing at a time. We need to stop the train from coming off of the tracks first. The argument of trying to differentiate the C-Store content from any other content has become irrelevant. By ignoring the lack of content and going straight to the cash shop, this issue was created. The ships currently bieng put it can be construed to be content that has been missing since day one. I am firm in my view that releasing an incomplete game then trying to get us to fund more at this time is improper and detrimental to the health of the game and it's customer base. Vanguard: SoH was launched with many more problems and much more content. It has survived, albeit to a much smaller base, by not being greedy and delivering content, not false promises followed by an outsretched hand.
also i forgot to put this in my last post, adding the excelsior and nebula into game would have changed the tone, alot of people were excited it was coming out and now find that they have to pay more to play it... some people cant, and thos people who cant probably wouldnt mind not paying 15 dollers a month.. on top of that, its not the prinsipal that these two ships are in there, its that cryptic seems to be taking steps towards new guidelines for the c store.. to quote insurection...
how many people does it take to make it wrong.... huh admiral... 1,000, 10 thousand, a million,, a billion.. how many admiral...
we are making our stand now so they do not get silly with it... like i said, pretty soon they will be like patch 4 is going live, to download it just log onto the c store and pay 50 dollers. they are already making pretty big steps with the c store, i would not doubt that they would continue to do so.
Honestly? I'm one of them, and that's only been the case for the last day or so. I said before that I actually enjoy playing the game, but unlike some (those who bought LTS), the bad taste I have right now can be solved by me unsubscribing. It's not a good feeling. But...I'm a little old to ragequit. I haven't pressed the cancel button, and won't do so until I'm sure I want to step out.
The problem, as I have pointed out before, is this is an argument from omniscience. What that means is, you are attributing your view to the wide playerbase. This is how you feel, therefore it must be right. The same with your other argument that regardless how much people want canon stuff in the game, it doesn't need to be there to be a Star Trek game. On the face of it, it is correct, but this is a subjective discussion, not objective.
The opposition to your view is aimed at Cryptic, not you. You do not speak for them, and so in reality how you feel about the game is irrelevant. You have also brought up points about funding and how C store allows for quicker developement etc. but that is all supposition about what funds are allocated where, and how much of our subscriptions are apportioned to what area of developement. Cryptic aren't going to answer that, so it's not a point worth countering when you make it.
Of course, you could be dead right, and the game needs the C store. If so, they could be honest and say look, we bled members, and the store is helping keep the game afloat. They aren't going to say it, so there is no reason why this game shouldn't be held up against other MMOs of the same price. As you said before, others may have flaws, but we're here, not there. The critique is against the game we play, and the company who makes it.
Other MMOs that charge a subscription do so with no added extra charges for fluffy bits, so why does STO? Either subscription money is being reallocated to other projects, or else the subscription numbers have fallen so low that the standard price is not supporting the game. Or, and this is a big one, the game doesn't need the C store at all, and that is a blatant lie to excuse greed.
I can admit that I have been making generalisations, and perhaps I haven't considered that many other points of view that well but the points I made are still valid, even if they are skewed. Others do not post that objectively as well and to expect me to be totally objective when I'm presenting my viewpoint is a bit harsh.
No I do not speak for Cryptic, I can see their point though, and if they say they're trying I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. Others tend to be a lot less generous. I'm simply trying to present my views and broaden the horizons. If people are so biased that they cannot see there's any point of view other than their own, then why are we here? Just to join in the massacre? I did use suppositions, but those are based on what has been said before. They're what's been told to us and it fits what I have laid out before. It makes sense, so, no you can't prove it, but you can't discount it out of hand either.
EDIT: How is my view of the game any less than yours or any of the others who complain about the C-store? Just because I have another point of view? I paid my dues, same as you do. I even paid in advance. That does not entitle me to a better point of view. It's still just my POV. But then, so's yours.
I never said the game needs the C-store. I said the game will be fine without it. We just won't get any of the extraneous bits and pieces that people are salivating over and fighting over and crying for. And perhaps that's not too bad a thing. If the C-store were to be abolished. Just to have some peace in our times.
also i forgot to put this in my last post, adding the excelsior and nebula into game would have changed the tone, alot of people were excited it was coming out and now find that they have to pay more to play it... some people cant, and thos people who cant probably wouldnt mind not paying 15 dollers a month.. on top of that, its not the prinsipal that these two ships are in there, its that cryptic seems to be taking steps towards new guidelines for the c store.. to quote insurection...
how many people does it take to make it wrong.... huh admiral... 1,000, 10 thousand, a million,, a billion.. how many admiral...
we are making our stand now so they do not get silly with it... like i said, pretty soon they will be like patch 4 is going live, to download it just log onto the c store and pay 50 dollers. they are already making pretty big steps with the c store, i would not doubt that they would continue to do so.
Will it really change the tone? Excited does not equal tone, especially if people get disappointed after the initial excitement. If it can change the tone, by all means, but I'm doubtful. It's just the next big thing. A fad that will burn out.
I suspect the strategy is not like people make it out to be. We do still get the free updates and if that changes, I would be the first to object, but that hasn't happened yet. There's still a clear seperation between the C-store and what's available as free updates. Let's keep it in persepctive huh? Like Syrinkx says, omniscience. Leaping to conclusions now, based on a percieved, feared future point of view will not do anything.
EDIT: How is my view of the game any less than yours or any of the others who complain about the C-store? Just because I have another point of view? I paid my dues, same as you do. I even paid in advance. That does not entitle me to a better point of view. It's still just my POV. But then, so's yours.
hehe I had a feeling that was coming, and I'm sorry to say it means you did not understand what I wrote.
My view is no more valid than yours, other than I do not make my point from any other perspective than my own.
Conversely, you have repeatedly said that "everyone knew going in..." "The game is the game despite missing canon items...." "Missing canon items don't make the game unplayable...." etc. Although I used quotes there, it was more for effect than what you said directly.
Do you see the difference? An argument from omniscience doesn't allow any subjective reasoning for anyone else's reasons for being here. All it does is say the game is true to the game and really what people are complaing about is preposterous.
Personalise what you've written to yourself, and it changes to the irrelevant point of view. You are happy, and that makes everything ok.
I have to say that I disagree with you 100% on every statement made there. As a sidenote, the lack of content needs to be addressed as well. One thing at a time. We need to stop the train from coming off of the tracks first. The argument of trying to differentiate the C-Store content from any other content has become irrelevant. By ignoring the lack of content and going straight to the cash shop, this issue was created. The ships currently bieng put it can be construed to be content that has been missing since day one. I am firm in my view that releasing an incomplete game then trying to get us to fund more at this time is improper and detrimental to the health of the game and it's customer base. Vanguard: SoH was launched with many more problems and much more content. It has survived, albeit to a much smaller base, by not being greedy and delivering content, not false promises followed by an outsretched hand.
They are selling you a ship. Not a gameplay mechanic.
Would you say that Bridge Commander was incomplete? But it didn't let you play the campaign from the viewpoint of an Akira, or a Nebula. This is what your argument sounds like.
The lack of content was not ignored. Just apparently by you, because you forget all the Season updates and patches and everything but go straight to the Cash Shop. That is your viewpoint. You are the one that's inordinately focusing on the Cash Shop to the detriment of anything else. The ship hasn't even appeared in the shop yet, for goodness sake.
How do you say missing by the way? Were there promises to have them in? Did we buy the game for these two ships? If you really did, that's a bit unfortunate. Otherwise don't call it content that was supposed to be in. There weren't as many threads lamenting the absence of these ships as there were, say crying for PC bridge crews.
The game is, of course incomplete. By definition, any MMORPG is incomplete, seeing as updates are continually expected. When will it be complete to you? When they've added in the universe?
hehe I had a feeling that was coming, and I'm sorry to say it means you did not understand what I wrote.
My view is no more valid than yours, other than I do not make my point from any other perspective than my own.
Conversely, you have repeatedly said that "everyone knew going in..." "The game is the game despite missing canon items...." "Missing canon items don't make the game unplayable...." etc. Although I used quotes there, it was more for effect than what you said directly.
Do you see the difference? An argument from omniscience doesn't allow any subjective reasoning for anyone else's reasons for being here. All it does is say the game is true to the game and really what people are complaing about is preposterous.
Personalise what you've written to yourself, and it changes to the irrelevant point of view. You are happy, and that makes everything ok.
Okay. I have admitted that I've been generalising.
I might be taking this the wrong way, but that does not invalidate most of my previous arguments. I may have been making assumptions as to how people are seeing this, but there must be a broader viewpoint here. Not one that consists of "I feel this is wrong so it must be", the antithesis of what you say I've been doing and which is the impression of most of the other posters have been giving.
I wonder though. Those sweeping statements I've made are facts. That the game is how the game is and that wanting it to change isn't good enough reason for it to change. That what the people are complaining about is perhaps concrete to them, however is not accounting for other factors.
the diffrence with all those games you have pointed out, is they dont have a big money-hungry company poking them with a stick constantly to get more money out of there players...
also, i can understand why they charge for character slots...thats alot of data per toon you make. 8xbo's and 8xships (both with equipment) slots or so... no other game has to store that much data on a per character basis,at least i think so.
the other stuff should be in the game allready, but like i said cryptic dont exacly own star trek, so im guessing that atari and cbs are on there backs all the time to squeeze every last penny out of this game before it rock bottoms (basicly they are killing there own game) and i dont see that to be cryptics fault.
not to say that they are blameless, becasue they aint
but this is all pointless becasue as long as people are buying the stuff, they will keep making more and more, untill there is no one left to sell it to.
such a shame that an IP like this has to be all about the money, i love this game and how far its come since beta/launch but some things are getting way out of hand and i seriously see this either going F2P, or just closing down all together
and i really dont want that to happen...:rolleyes:
LMAO, Every company is a money hungry company, its all about the Benjamins
Perhaps we've been viewing my argument all wrong though. It's not that I'm arguring for or against the C-store as I've said. I think I'm arguing for a bit more objectivitiy as to the viewpoints.
Show where it needs to be changed and why it needs to be changed, without dragging how you feel into the debate. All the things I've been talking about. All the complaining and ranting and whining, they're all subjective as you say. I'm trying to be as objective as possible and consider all the attendant factors.
"Because I said so" is never a good reason for anything. Back it up with a why changing it is better than not changing it.
If you look back. I think I argued that point well enough.
Comments
Thank you. You have done very politely what I no longer have the patience for. Suffice it to say that I am eagerly awaiting S2 but will no longer pay for any content released from the C-Store. It is what it is...
I can see that my utilization of the Ignore feature was for a reason...
What concerns me most is 2 very strong sci fi IPs.
You cna bet your life Bioware are monitoring everything that goes on over here, and with the forum outrages being highlighted on other sites, it's not a secret that the ST playerbase is upset.
Add wow's Cataclysm to the upcomming release of TOR, and this game looks like it'll see some very dry months. Those like me that spent a lot of time in wow will undoutedly pick up Cataclysm, and I'll most likely drop this for the period of time I go back. Do that again for the TOR relase, and there's a chance that either one of those will keep people from coming back here at all.
I would rather that didn't happen, but people will only take so much.
right now as it is, you can look on the forums and find several posts about issues, glitches, parts of the game that just are not working (like the referal program bennies), and see that a) they have been issues for 2 plus months and b) after 2 plus months, the problems still have not been fixed. stf's still regularly bug on me, and im scared to see how buggy the new ones are.
also the game was released unfinished... the game started with a big booming amount of paying subscribers. but then (because of the lack of content, the c-store, and the constant buggy state of the game) people started leaving... as a fleet leader and part of a larger fleet movement, i hear, and see all of these people leaving the game. in my opinion cryptic cant afford to sell anything at this point, they need to make it available in patches as free content to keep the player base healthy.... again they sold us a car with no gas in it...
further more, for all of you who think that the c store helps bring more content forward, and helps move the game along... there is a lack of free content right now, this is all stuff that should be released with patches as regularly useable content. i know its like kicking adead horse, but cryptic cant afford to sell stuff when they dont have the stuff to keep us entertained.
also, as quoted several times, the c-store was supposed to be for skin upgrades and cosmetics only, i dont mind all the xtra char. slots, or that kind of content at all, what i do mind is the galaxy x being on the c-store, its not just a skin but content.. it was a unique ship that should have been available to all, just like the excelsior and the nebula... those arnt skins, they are new ships with new builds.... shame on cryptic for being dishonest about their prior claims of how the c store would work.
if this game flops, it will be mostly because of the c-store. imho.
Lol. You never got my point did you? This statement was my point exactly. Don't buy it if you don't agree with it but there's no point ranting and raving and whining about it.
Of course. The point was made against the endless screaming and ranting and tantrum throwing. I agree, we're paying for all this stuff. Does that mean we're entitled to have everything that we see fit, because of the pittance we pay? Do the people that want the NX-01 in the game have the devs falling over themselves to make it happen because it's being paid for? We pay to play in Cryptic's version of the ST universe, love it or hate it. The monthly fee is there for mainentance and for the regular Season updates, which we have been getting. That has been what I said all along. A stealth tax implies an enforced purchase as in that you have to buy it otherwise there are serious consequences. There is not. The only consequence that will arise if you don't buy the Nebula or Excelsior is that you will not have the Nebula or Excelsior. The game will not suddenly become unplayable, of if bought, the game will not magically become the be-all end-all of Star Trek games. The game has its faults, I would be the first to say, but it does not hinge on the purchase of a single facet, not feature, but facet.
The Nebula and Excelsior are not required for IP-related gameplay. If you take the serious route, Starfleet does not let you pick and choose from their ships which one you would command. If you want to take the less serious route, there are other, more heavily featured vessels already in the game that constitutes the majority of the IP. Going this way would mean that the smallest, ship, in the most insignificant episode should be added into the game for IP's sake. Again. it is an option. If you feel like you will die if you can't fly an Excelsior, then buy one. If you don't agree with paying for it, don't.
This is not content. It's a facet as I have said. Do you really need to have it to have rich, enjoyable gameplay? The content is in the mechanics and the functions of the game, all of which we have access to for the monthly subscription and the new mechanics which will be included in Season 2. This is a redress of ships. They're still cruisers. They still have weapons slots and bridge crew slots and consoles, all things that are in all other vessels.
Again there is no coercion. There is incentive but no coercion. You buy the game to play the game. It's Cryptic's version of the game. If you buy Legcay, would you say that you thought you were buying Bridge Commander? No. You buy a game to play it the way it was made. If you have other reasons to buy the game then those are your own, not obligated to be supported by the developers, i.e. all the fan mods for all the other games out there. Otherwise I suppose you could say that a couple of people bought the game wanting to play with player crews. Should the developers throw all the gameplay away and implement dull player crews for those few people?
You forget that canon-specific means that it was designed and developed by someone else. Someone else who will have to be credited and who will have to be paid for the use of their work. That is expensive. If they gave us the option, Nebula and Excelsior to be included in Season update, but because of that they didn't have the wherewithal to include the interiors, would you be happy? The C-store happened to bump it up the development schedule and we should be glad that it's here at this time, If the C-store wasn't there, if they weren't going to make more money off it, you think we'd be seeing it now? We'd probably see it next year if we were lucky. Cryptic-designed stuff has no appeal to you in the C-store, they have diminished value, but they also cost less. Stuff costing less would be easier to implement in a regular update than stuff that you have to pay someone else for don't you think?
People's motives are a funny thing. The game was out in beta to be tried before an LTS was introduced. so how could you say that they didn't know what they were buying? They chose. The ramifications of their choice remain with them and it is no one else's responsibility to ensure that their choices are validated. I bought an LTS, and while I can't say that I'm absolutely happy with my experience, I'm not complaining about it. I knew what I signed up for before I bought it.
So answer me this. When this goes through and Cryptic makes a ton of money selling the Nebula and the Excelsior. When the time comes that they decide to put content updates on the C-store, will the fact that there has been all this uproar and still they made lots of money, help the arguments against the addition of game-changing elements in store?
That sadly, I can agree with. It isn't living up to my expectation of what a Star Trek MMO or even a ST game should be too. This is why we need to be bugging the devs about new things to add to the game, refinining it into the game it should be. Not arguing over who should have access to a couple of bits and pieces.
You call it a pittance, I call it the same as all the other MMOs that do not have a C store model.
Do you get what you pay for? It seems not since Guild wars is vastly superior and was right from day 1 with no fee at all. If STO can't hold a decent number of those monthly subs in order to operate, it says more about the game than the price.
The argument against the C store is not about a single facet. It is about the perception of Cryptic's preferred practices in relation to what is released where. Something you highlight and I answer further in your post.
Again, the item does not matter. The simple fact is that in a game with very little to do anyway, you at least want to do nothing in the things you loved from the show that made you want to play the game in the first place. You're back to hyperbole again and begging the question with unrealistic skewing of what people are arguing for.
The Ecelsior and the Nebula were part of an official Cryptic poll. A poll that asked players to vote which ship they would most like to see in game. Not to ask which ship players would like to see in game flown by those that bought it on the C store.
Ignored for reasons given further on.
That's a propagandised argument. They made this game adorned with the Star Trek tag. What it costs them to realise that product is not my concern, and if it's beyond a company's scope to deliver the product, don't do it. It's that simple. This is not STSTBNQO (similar to Star Trek but not quite online)
I think I've said before, though I don't know if it's this thread, I don't care about the C store ships. I won't be buying them. Having said that, I don't buy the oft cited quote from Cryptic that the C store allows them to give us party favours. They're fully aware of what they're doing. And an interior that does nothing more than allow you to use your dance emotes somewhere other than on your bridge is of no use anyway. It remains to be seen what happens there.
You're right, Cryptic designs have less value, and that is the emotional ransom they're playing on those that are here because of the IP.
Unfortunately I need to disregard this entire block above because it's just your reiterated argument from omniscience which ignores any subjective reason that any other player might have for playing a game based on this IP.
I will say this though, the argument that without the C store, we'd have to wait and wait for any extra in game items is a fallacy. The various ST uniforms were available long before release, and were not added into regular gameplay for further disemination. The reasons for this might possibly include appeasement to those that had them as exclusives but it still goes to highlight C store over game enhancement, and I don't believe for one minute that they weren't going to the C store anyway.
Of course it won't help, but all you've done is highlight a very slippery slope that unfortunately could very well be the future of this game, and furthermore, your point goes more to those that buy the items, not those that voice objection. I ask you in return, if someone does
feel slighted by what Cryptic have done with the C store, is it better to voice that, or should everyone keep quiet? It's a rhetorical and loaded question, since to answer anything other than to voice our opinion goes against the idea of a feedback forum anyway.
Here you are talking semantics. You're happy to have things added to the game, as long it isn't things being discussed here. I don't understand that rationale. You and I already covered this elsewhere. The existing items are suitable as in game rewards to encourage people to do the content. Instead of agreeing, you posited that they could add different rewards instead. Why?
I'll say this for the umpteenth time: this game has no reason to continue playing once you reach max level.
There is no timesink at all, no pursuit of aquisition to advance your character through gear (either dropped or crafted).
The C store, and anything like it, is the epitome of welfare items. Some argue their time in-game factor and like that they can have what others have through time spent. Fair enough, but where will you go in your shiny ship? You have no reason to fly anywhere since you've seen it all before and have no reason to see it again.
I think you're arguing your side for the sake of arguing anyway. If all the content was added into the price of subsciption, you'd be as happy about it as anyone else. I doubt very much you'd be posting asking why we couldn't pay for extras instead.
You'll find that you and I actually agree on a lot. The problem is we're arguing on different perspectives. My point is not whether or not the C-store is a good or bad thing. I submit points against those that continually whine and yell and complain and ragequit over the fact that Cryptic has chosen one option over the other. I perhaps exaggerate the way people are doing it somewhat, but can you deny that that's the way it's going with all the ranting?
I'm all for more content and more discussion as to what the content should be and how it should be implemented, but the main thing is discussion. Most of the people posting on the C-store are just complaining and ranting, not actually discussing. If they could consider the factors, which I try to point out and you say are not your concern, and discuss solutions as to how it could be resolved in their favour then you'll get no argument from me. Instead we get posts on what the game is not, which company is doing a better job at other games, how we're being nickeled and dimed.... need i go on?
I wasn't talking about the buyers. I was talking about the people who will complain and then go ahead and buy it anyway. That sort of hypocracy just erodes all credibility in what they say. Why should Cryptic believe the arguments when it's not supported by the numbers? I say again. If you don't like it, don't buy it and perhaps state why, not yell like the heavens are falling, then cave anyway when the world isn't handed to you on a silver platter.
Because presumably they've done all this work and they've done all the balancing of the spreadsheets and stuff and they figure this is the way they have to implement the content? I doubt they will backtrack on their stated program. That would show lack of resolve and a willingness to compromise what had already been decided. I wouldn't trust a company that does this.
I know. I'm getting rather tired myself. It's all there in the backlog for people to read and hopefully, take note of.
I really wasn't going to post again, but anyway.
We're in agreement on that. It is hypocrisy, but unfortunately it is also human nature.
It's the "I do this, but I do it reluctantly because I have no other option to get what I want" syndrome.
In this circumstance it shows the barrel the C store is, and how Cryptic know they've got a lot of people over it.
Something else I meant to say before but it slipped my mind. You just reminded me when you say we shouldn't be talking about what the game is not:
Cryptic took 2 years to make this game. They're proud of that fact, but is it a laudible achievement?
If they had done in 2 years what other companies took 4 or more to do, it would be really impressive.
But when you look at it, what they've done in 2 years is what others did possibly in 2 years. The difference is, they released what they had, rather than take the proper 4 years to make the game polished and complete. If proper developement time had been spent (and yes this is back to what if) I'd wager most of the complaints and the problems wouldn't be here anyway.
Also, you can't help but make comparisons with other products. Everything in life is a comparison to something that came before, and this should not be exempt. The game is lacking, both in play and in trekkiness, but instead of trying to fix that for those that are paying, and have paid up front, Cryptic are continually looking for more cash.
Heck, Klingons can't even scan anomalies. They could at least do that while they're scooting around systems so they could up the farming on a fed character.
I'd almost totally agree with everything you say. There is a significant lack of polish and function in the game and perhaps it should have spend more time in the incubation chamber. Still what's done is done and there's no point in looking back and crying over spilt milk.
People's expectations need to be tempered though. They pick and choose the best things they like about the other games, ignore the faults and then hold STO up to these things and expect it to be everything. Is it any surprise that people get disappointed?
I suspect though that human nature being what it is, people will stil find something to complain about, even when everything is done for them. Case in point: the Galaxy-X fiasco. People complained about it being for Master Referrals only, so it's added to the C-store at a prohbitive price so that there would not be too many that bought it. People then complained about it being in the C-store. Then bought it. Then got tired of it, trashed it and moved on.
What a laugh...
I GOT your point. You are the one that is not getting it. As a consumer, I have a right to voice my displeasure with management. Whether you like it or not, this avenue gets exposure to the powers that be. Your displeasure at being forced (?) to view the 'rantings and whinings' (as you put it) are inconsequential. The reason we have taken to these forums is due to the nature of the business. For starters, it is an effective way to get a point across to management. Second, the ablility for an MMO company to recover from an exodus of people who just "quit for no reason" is almost impossible. And if that were to happen, the remnants would be here on these very same boards wailing like brats that the the population sucks, wondering why no one bothered to sound the alarm. Just as you accuse us of it, you can't be made happy either. No one here wants to punish Cryptic. They want Cryptic to see that there is something amiss and give them an opportunity to correct it.
In your case, I have simply run out of patience because you simply do not wish to acknowledge that anyone has an option to speak up. While 'vote-by-wallet' will most likely get the point across, it may kill the game which is not what anyone want. The only thing worse than Cryptics current marketing scheme is the fact that you seem to be fine with it. If you are, I'm sorry for you and that it all works out for you in th eend. But just aS you don't want to hear us, no one here particularly wants to hear you standing on your pedastal giving everyone lip service. If you don't like what we're talking about, find another thread. Get out and go play golf. take your own advice and play the game or find something else to do.
Now please go and have yourself a nice day!
Has it occured to you that the all the fuss may actually drive people away? It gives people the impression that something is horribly wrong and that may just push someone who is thinking of leaving into actually leaving. Herd mentaility is a powerful thing.
It's not my displeasure that is the point here. I'm simply trying to show that it is not the most effective way of airing your views. Non-constructive criticism merely spoils things for everyone. By all means, rant all you want. It won't get you anywhere. Giving Cryptic an opportunity to correct mistakes is fine and dandy but the number of posts actually trying to fix the percieved issue is small compared to those that are crying and wailing or storming out in disgust.
I may be fine with Cryptic's marketing, to me they haven't done anything that bad yet and I don't percieve much loss by other people having things available to them. I play less intensely and there are many things in game that I will never see and that's fine by me. I don't need to have everything or do everything to be satisfied. In that respect I am fine. I'm just sorry not more people are.
The question here is not your right to speak up but how you speak up. Do you bemoan your loss without reason and when people try to explain or give possible solutions or present a contrary point of view, you tell them to shut up and shut them out? I think you do. I don't discourage you from debate. Far from it. I make points and I expect rebuttals to which I counter. You tell me "This is my point. I'm tired of yours. Now shut up!". I wonder how it is that I'm not listening but somehow you are when you fail actually address any points made and choose to live in denial.
I am having a nice day. You have a nice dream.
ok if it drives people away, than that is cryptics fault... plain and simple... the forums shouldnt send people running, if you hop in game and have no problems with anything than you will stay regardless. further more i think your missing the big picture.. the point is that cryptic in a race to capture all the new audience members from the new movie released a game that was not only incomplete in that there was very little content and lots of redundant content... but also released a game that was not stable, had way to many flaws (after they got on stage at every trekkie convention and said that it would be the most accurate to cannon trek) which it has holes and flaws... were not complaining because they did a horrible job, its just they set the bar and are not able to reach it.
further more, the idea of selling content when there is a lack of content in an unfinished game is rediculous. if i were cryptic i would be like TRIBBLE, we need to release this content asap to keep us from losing any more people. and because they didnt do their job, and couldnt hold on to the multitude of people that left the game cause they released it unfinished, now those of us who hold on to hope that new content is coming have to pay for it to keep the game and content coming...
ive said on other threads that i wouldnt mind paying a 15 doller subscription fee, as long as it contends with other games that are charging that much... and cryptic does not touch other mmo's with a stick. it should be a 5-7 doller a month fee cause that is what it is worth, notice how i said its not worthless, just not worth what we put into it. it is disgusting to charge for content in a game where content is lacking, and its a ballsy maneuver on cryptics part...
i like the game, i think it has potential, but ive seen the c store go from being something that was just cosmetic to content, which means they will change it again and every patch will be on the c store for 50 bucks or something like that in the future... just some food for thought.
i personally love watching both sides of the discusion, both sides make points, but i feel that due to cryptics lack of quality its unfair to charge to raise the quality, i ask again, is there a lemon law for mmo's lol...
Is it groundhog day?
Try again. I never said they charge to raise the quality of the content. I argued that the content being charged is seperate to the content that is being delivered via the Season patches, which is funded by our subscription, and which is the content that is supposed to reinvigorate and expand the game. The C-store content is basically extras, which are worth differently to different people. The content released on the C-store would not, if put into the current game for free, change the tone of the game nor improve the richness of the content. That is the job of the Season patches and that's what you should be looking at to make up for the lack of content in-game currently.
Honestly? I'm one of them, and that's only been the case for the last day or so. I said before that I actually enjoy playing the game, but unlike some (those who bought LTS), the bad taste I have right now can be solved by me unsubscribing. It's not a good feeling. But...I'm a little old to ragequit. I haven't pressed the cancel button, and won't do so until I'm sure I want to step out.
The problem, as I have pointed out before, is this is an argument from omniscience. What that means is, you are attributing your view to the wide playerbase. This is how you feel, therefore it must be right. The same with your other argument that regardless how much people want canon stuff in the game, it doesn't need to be there to be a Star Trek game. On the face of it, it is correct, but this is a subjective discussion, not objective.
The opposition to your view is aimed at Cryptic, not you. You do not speak for them, and so in reality how you feel about the game is irrelevant. You have also brought up points about funding and how C store allows for quicker developement etc. but that is all supposition about what funds are allocated where, and how much of our subscriptions are apportioned to what area of developement. Cryptic aren't going to answer that, so it's not a point worth countering when you make it.
Of course, you could be dead right, and the game needs the C store. If so, they could be honest and say look, we bled members, and the store is helping keep the game afloat. They aren't going to say it, so there is no reason why this game shouldn't be held up against other MMOs of the same price. As you said before, others may have flaws, but we're here, not there. The critique is against the game we play, and the company who makes it.
Other MMOs that charge a subscription do so with no added extra charges for fluffy bits, so why does STO? Either subscription money is being reallocated to other projects, or else the subscription numbers have fallen so low that the standard price is not supporting the game. Or, and this is a big one, the game doesn't need the C store at all, and that is a blatant lie to excuse greed.
There we go. You deflect, evade and 'address' the issue. Just like you've been doing throughout the thread. I have not used rant and whine to refute any one. I'm saying that's what people have been doing. I never said that the replies anyone makes to me is a rant or whine. You're tired of this? I am too. Let's just leave it. I've stated my points and I can't defend them from you, seeing as you're not really disputing them.
I will say this though. At least my points have been consistent. I argue to defend one point of view. You argue to score points. To 'win'. Like when you said you didn't want to drive people away, then when I said that's what you're doing, you say that's the case and that's how you intend to get Cryptic to respond. How is driving people away giving Cryptic a chance to mend the error of their ways? Is the 'if I can't have it no one can' mentality that important to you?
however, im not against the c store, its just they made a statement that said cstore stuff would be cosmetic only when they introduced it... now you got tribbles that give in game buffs, starships with new weapons and cloaks, and two ships that should have been in the original game... and not just as skins, but as seperate stand alone starships...
again im not against the c store being used as it was intended, i thought it was a great idea, its just when the game lacks content, it should be the last thing you institute... it was a slap in the face to add content through it when the game its self was lacking content.. and as far as it not making the content any better.. say you have me who is on the fence right now abotu the game. i love it but it has not scratched that itch, and i for one cannot stay in a relationship where i am constantly lied too, and the dishes never get done (ie, c-store policy, content that was supposed to come that never does, they claimed that lore would be flawless and it isnt, and they have pushed back every release they say they were, also bigs dont get fixed, glitches constantly hamper game play, other parts of the game such as billing and the referal program either dont work, or give constant trouble (this is like the dishes never getting done lol.) i understand growing pains and heck, wow had a terrible first year too, but they didnt charge anyone for anything xtra till the game was as close to perfect as it would get.
say i build a car for someone, and they pay me to do so (such as we have with buying the game and paying a subscription) and it breaks down as they pull out of my driveway, i dont charge them to fix it... further more, i dont say while im at it you can buy fog lights off me, and a performance muffler, and snazzy new rims.. you get it running and when they are happy with it you offer up the xtras.
again guy, i didnt mean to make it look like you said anything, my arguments are not towards you but towards the powers to be so they might pull their heads out of their a***s and learn how economics and general buisness works...
I have to say that I disagree with you 100% on every statement made there. As a sidenote, the lack of content needs to be addressed as well. One thing at a time. We need to stop the train from coming off of the tracks first. The argument of trying to differentiate the C-Store content from any other content has become irrelevant. By ignoring the lack of content and going straight to the cash shop, this issue was created. The ships currently bieng put it can be construed to be content that has been missing since day one. I am firm in my view that releasing an incomplete game then trying to get us to fund more at this time is improper and detrimental to the health of the game and it's customer base. Vanguard: SoH was launched with many more problems and much more content. It has survived, albeit to a much smaller base, by not being greedy and delivering content, not false promises followed by an outsretched hand.
how many people does it take to make it wrong.... huh admiral... 1,000, 10 thousand, a million,, a billion.. how many admiral...
we are making our stand now so they do not get silly with it... like i said, pretty soon they will be like patch 4 is going live, to download it just log onto the c store and pay 50 dollers. they are already making pretty big steps with the c store, i would not doubt that they would continue to do so.
I can admit that I have been making generalisations, and perhaps I haven't considered that many other points of view that well but the points I made are still valid, even if they are skewed. Others do not post that objectively as well and to expect me to be totally objective when I'm presenting my viewpoint is a bit harsh.
No I do not speak for Cryptic, I can see their point though, and if they say they're trying I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. Others tend to be a lot less generous. I'm simply trying to present my views and broaden the horizons. If people are so biased that they cannot see there's any point of view other than their own, then why are we here? Just to join in the massacre? I did use suppositions, but those are based on what has been said before. They're what's been told to us and it fits what I have laid out before. It makes sense, so, no you can't prove it, but you can't discount it out of hand either.
EDIT: How is my view of the game any less than yours or any of the others who complain about the C-store? Just because I have another point of view? I paid my dues, same as you do. I even paid in advance. That does not entitle me to a better point of view. It's still just my POV. But then, so's yours.
I never said the game needs the C-store. I said the game will be fine without it. We just won't get any of the extraneous bits and pieces that people are salivating over and fighting over and crying for. And perhaps that's not too bad a thing. If the C-store were to be abolished. Just to have some peace in our times.
Will it really change the tone? Excited does not equal tone, especially if people get disappointed after the initial excitement. If it can change the tone, by all means, but I'm doubtful. It's just the next big thing. A fad that will burn out.
I suspect the strategy is not like people make it out to be. We do still get the free updates and if that changes, I would be the first to object, but that hasn't happened yet. There's still a clear seperation between the C-store and what's available as free updates. Let's keep it in persepctive huh? Like Syrinkx says, omniscience. Leaping to conclusions now, based on a percieved, feared future point of view will not do anything.
hehe I had a feeling that was coming, and I'm sorry to say it means you did not understand what I wrote.
My view is no more valid than yours, other than I do not make my point from any other perspective than my own.
Conversely, you have repeatedly said that "everyone knew going in..." "The game is the game despite missing canon items...." "Missing canon items don't make the game unplayable...." etc. Although I used quotes there, it was more for effect than what you said directly.
Do you see the difference? An argument from omniscience doesn't allow any subjective reasoning for anyone else's reasons for being here. All it does is say the game is true to the game and really what people are complaing about is preposterous.
Personalise what you've written to yourself, and it changes to the irrelevant point of view. You are happy, and that makes everything ok.
They are selling you a ship. Not a gameplay mechanic.
Would you say that Bridge Commander was incomplete? But it didn't let you play the campaign from the viewpoint of an Akira, or a Nebula. This is what your argument sounds like.
The lack of content was not ignored. Just apparently by you, because you forget all the Season updates and patches and everything but go straight to the Cash Shop. That is your viewpoint. You are the one that's inordinately focusing on the Cash Shop to the detriment of anything else. The ship hasn't even appeared in the shop yet, for goodness sake.
How do you say missing by the way? Were there promises to have them in? Did we buy the game for these two ships? If you really did, that's a bit unfortunate. Otherwise don't call it content that was supposed to be in. There weren't as many threads lamenting the absence of these ships as there were, say crying for PC bridge crews.
The game is, of course incomplete. By definition, any MMORPG is incomplete, seeing as updates are continually expected. When will it be complete to you? When they've added in the universe?
Okay. I have admitted that I've been generalising.
I might be taking this the wrong way, but that does not invalidate most of my previous arguments. I may have been making assumptions as to how people are seeing this, but there must be a broader viewpoint here. Not one that consists of "I feel this is wrong so it must be", the antithesis of what you say I've been doing and which is the impression of most of the other posters have been giving.
I wonder though. Those sweeping statements I've made are facts. That the game is how the game is and that wanting it to change isn't good enough reason for it to change. That what the people are complaining about is perhaps concrete to them, however is not accounting for other factors.
LMAO, Every company is a money hungry company, its all about the Benjamins
Show where it needs to be changed and why it needs to be changed, without dragging how you feel into the debate. All the things I've been talking about. All the complaining and ranting and whining, they're all subjective as you say. I'm trying to be as objective as possible and consider all the attendant factors.
"Because I said so" is never a good reason for anything. Back it up with a why changing it is better than not changing it.
If you look back. I think I argued that point well enough.