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Disturbing Turn-Offs of the C-Store...
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Don't even bother reading this if you cannot devote at least 10-15 minutes to the point I'm going to make.
After about 70 Hours of play-time clocked in and currently sitting at a Captain Rank 3 Human Tactical Officer, I've come to the conclusion it would be a good time to start digging deeper into the roots of this game to see if it will keep my attention for more than a month. (If you will notice, I'm not going to directly into the topic of the C-Store just yet, I will attempt to make a point first relevant to the topic).
Let's start off with the game itself in general. It's incomplete to say the least. Not trying to be harsh but seriously this is why the game doesn't have as many players as the fanbase thought it would (I'm going to make a very biased comparison to World Of Warcraft in the next paragraph). Many questions about Episodes are left un-answered, the site itself doesn't even accurately describe what in the Sol System is going on (If you didn't get the reference, it's WTH) with the current time and place of the game's setting itself.
Patches are fine and dandy, and add some much anticipated content, but this is where things begin to get very shaky and it's almost to the point where I'd rather quit than play with such un-evened opportunities (Note, I said un-evened, not "Omg that is so hax and i haz to pay more $$$ 4 it!?). For those of you who don't spend $500 on "Cryptic-Points", you know what I'm getting at. We already paid for the game itself, and we are still forced to pay a $15 / month fee to play. This is where I'm really confused. In a game like World of Warcraft (Which mind you I already told you I would make this comment eventually, and yes, I have played WoW for 5 years now and have good reason to use it as a point of reference) you purchase the game, and the expansions that come with it every year and still pay $15 / month, similar to Star Trek Online except for the fact that they release patches instead of expansions (Mainly from my point of view, the seasons are too small in file to ship out as expansions).
Oddly enough, when you purchase the game and the expansions, you get access to everything, yeah there are some premium features that require some extra cash outside the game to do, however those are purely to do with movement of characters across a multi-server game and changing the name / faction of said character (If you worked in Database Systems, you would know that sometimes the transfer of said file can be at times quite complicated). What really makes me curious is how limited Cryptic makes us unless we purchase extras from them (Yes I know what your thinking "BS Bro, They let us make klingons and become rear admirals with the top ships", Ok, why can't you be a Caitian Rear Admiral since they are allegedly part of the federation, oh looky Cryptic wants more money from you other than the $15/month they already charge you).
I've honestly never seen a game suck it's players dry to the bone just so they could have access to features which should in all honesty, be already given to them when they purchased the game. I can reference 5 more games and sit here and say why they do things better than Cryptic and how much more successful they are, but no, I'm going to now outline exactly why this C-Store nonsense should be revised and drastically altered to only used for Character Data Altering Services.
Let's divide it up into what's good and bad about it now, and a very simple change that could be made to increase the player's overall view of the game and playing experience.
Going to start off listing some pros, good first, then the bad.
Pros:
1. Hey man, you get some cool stuff that most other players can't get unless they want to spend mega bucks on some virtual items.
2. Some features like extra re-specs and name changes and special hull registry's are somethings that are worth paying for.
3. You can use things other players can't.
(Yeah, really not that many Pros, prepare for some Khans, err I mean cons!)
Cons:
1. It costs money, which the game itself charges you monthly.
2. If your under 18 and your parents are the Anti-Christs of video games, might want to go play a different game if you really want something from the C-Store.
3. Certain special features such as Bridges / Ships / Races, are prohibited from the standard game unless you purchase bridge packs or special ships or races on the C-store.
4. Some players may find that they can obtain somewhat of an advantage over other players by having a race that has abilities that they couldn't obtain (If your going to try to quote this, just seriously I'll write you a 10 paragraph hate-rage as to why this is a valid point).
5. Why are we limited to 3 character slots, bro, WoW has 10 (per server!!!), and even EvE-Online has at the least 4 (If I'm not mistaken I think it was upped to 6, FREE OF CHARGE!)
6. There's a limit on how many ships we can own? So let me get this straight, if we want to put one extra escort in the virtual drydock, its going to cost me around $5?
7. Your giving things to other players who simply put more money in your pocket and make the game quite unbalanced and unfair. (Oh let me guess, just like the Nebula and the Excelsior your putting in the C-Store, any other cool ships that all the players DID NOT WANT IN THE C-Store, are going to end up there?)
Solution: (For anyone who is interested, there have been multiple suggestions for solutions posted throughout the thread, please take the time to review them and not just go based off my suggestions.)
1. Only use the C-Store for name changes and account transfers maybe, and it will hurt me to say this but I suppose you need some money (lol), go ahead and keep the option to add character slots. (And why not start selling t-shirts and some other STO gear, that'd be cool)
2. Give your players what they paid for, Star Trek, the whole shabang, not a piece meal choppy unfair advantage game for people who want to stuff your pockets with cash. (This will kill the MMO in good time if you keep this up). THIS MEANS ALL THE SHIP SKINS, ALL THE BRIDGES, ALL THE RACES THAT WE EXPECT TO SEE IN STAR TREK!
If you put my Nebula Class in the C-Store, I don't even want to describe what horrific acts of terror I will have to commit on my keyboard. We might as well whip open the bible and begin the funeral prayer for my computer, he will unfortunately be the next target.
In all honesty, drastically alter the C-Store.. I'd prefer that people's dreams of playing out the missions of a starfleet captain are not crushed because you could have pulled a stunt that could obliterate a game with such great potential based on such an epic multi-generation tv-series that has never been taken on the MMO scale.
Yeah, Hope you devs, gms, etc. have a good long look at this. This is not hate-raging or lashing out, this is a discussion to voice my opinions on what should be done with this game, after all, the community is what makes a game what it is. I'm sure this isn't the only complaint post you've heard or seen within the past year. And if any of this goes against your forum policies, I'd like to personally apologize, it was not an intentional offense.
For those of you going to reply, heh, i may be arrogant, but I'm sure most of you would agree with what I'm posting here.
(A shout out to any Devs who may come by reading this post, I personally, would like to say you are doing an excellent job with the game from what I've seen. After listening to Craig's and Dan's interviews with game review sites/magazines I'm blooming with excitement for what is yet to come. Keep up the good work, this game can really make it big time if these seasons are frequent and content packed!)
Once again, don't put my nebula class in the C-Store, Or I might have to hate-rage...
Yours Truly,
Captain Themagikz of the U.S.S. Freedom
After about 70 Hours of play-time clocked in and currently sitting at a Captain Rank 3 Human Tactical Officer, I've come to the conclusion it would be a good time to start digging deeper into the roots of this game to see if it will keep my attention for more than a month. (If you will notice, I'm not going to directly into the topic of the C-Store just yet, I will attempt to make a point first relevant to the topic).
Let's start off with the game itself in general. It's incomplete to say the least. Not trying to be harsh but seriously this is why the game doesn't have as many players as the fanbase thought it would (I'm going to make a very biased comparison to World Of Warcraft in the next paragraph). Many questions about Episodes are left un-answered, the site itself doesn't even accurately describe what in the Sol System is going on (If you didn't get the reference, it's WTH) with the current time and place of the game's setting itself.
Patches are fine and dandy, and add some much anticipated content, but this is where things begin to get very shaky and it's almost to the point where I'd rather quit than play with such un-evened opportunities (Note, I said un-evened, not "Omg that is so hax and i haz to pay more $$$ 4 it!?). For those of you who don't spend $500 on "Cryptic-Points", you know what I'm getting at. We already paid for the game itself, and we are still forced to pay a $15 / month fee to play. This is where I'm really confused. In a game like World of Warcraft (Which mind you I already told you I would make this comment eventually, and yes, I have played WoW for 5 years now and have good reason to use it as a point of reference) you purchase the game, and the expansions that come with it every year and still pay $15 / month, similar to Star Trek Online except for the fact that they release patches instead of expansions (Mainly from my point of view, the seasons are too small in file to ship out as expansions).
Oddly enough, when you purchase the game and the expansions, you get access to everything, yeah there are some premium features that require some extra cash outside the game to do, however those are purely to do with movement of characters across a multi-server game and changing the name / faction of said character (If you worked in Database Systems, you would know that sometimes the transfer of said file can be at times quite complicated). What really makes me curious is how limited Cryptic makes us unless we purchase extras from them (Yes I know what your thinking "BS Bro, They let us make klingons and become rear admirals with the top ships", Ok, why can't you be a Caitian Rear Admiral since they are allegedly part of the federation, oh looky Cryptic wants more money from you other than the $15/month they already charge you).
I've honestly never seen a game suck it's players dry to the bone just so they could have access to features which should in all honesty, be already given to them when they purchased the game. I can reference 5 more games and sit here and say why they do things better than Cryptic and how much more successful they are, but no, I'm going to now outline exactly why this C-Store nonsense should be revised and drastically altered to only used for Character Data Altering Services.
Let's divide it up into what's good and bad about it now, and a very simple change that could be made to increase the player's overall view of the game and playing experience.
Going to start off listing some pros, good first, then the bad.
Pros:
1. Hey man, you get some cool stuff that most other players can't get unless they want to spend mega bucks on some virtual items.
2. Some features like extra re-specs and name changes and special hull registry's are somethings that are worth paying for.
3. You can use things other players can't.
(Yeah, really not that many Pros, prepare for some Khans, err I mean cons!)
Cons:
1. It costs money, which the game itself charges you monthly.
2. If your under 18 and your parents are the Anti-Christs of video games, might want to go play a different game if you really want something from the C-Store.
3. Certain special features such as Bridges / Ships / Races, are prohibited from the standard game unless you purchase bridge packs or special ships or races on the C-store.
4. Some players may find that they can obtain somewhat of an advantage over other players by having a race that has abilities that they couldn't obtain (If your going to try to quote this, just seriously I'll write you a 10 paragraph hate-rage as to why this is a valid point).
5. Why are we limited to 3 character slots, bro, WoW has 10 (per server!!!), and even EvE-Online has at the least 4 (If I'm not mistaken I think it was upped to 6, FREE OF CHARGE!)
6. There's a limit on how many ships we can own? So let me get this straight, if we want to put one extra escort in the virtual drydock, its going to cost me around $5?
7. Your giving things to other players who simply put more money in your pocket and make the game quite unbalanced and unfair. (Oh let me guess, just like the Nebula and the Excelsior your putting in the C-Store, any other cool ships that all the players DID NOT WANT IN THE C-Store, are going to end up there?)
Solution: (For anyone who is interested, there have been multiple suggestions for solutions posted throughout the thread, please take the time to review them and not just go based off my suggestions.)
1. Only use the C-Store for name changes and account transfers maybe, and it will hurt me to say this but I suppose you need some money (lol), go ahead and keep the option to add character slots. (And why not start selling t-shirts and some other STO gear, that'd be cool)
2. Give your players what they paid for, Star Trek, the whole shabang, not a piece meal choppy unfair advantage game for people who want to stuff your pockets with cash. (This will kill the MMO in good time if you keep this up). THIS MEANS ALL THE SHIP SKINS, ALL THE BRIDGES, ALL THE RACES THAT WE EXPECT TO SEE IN STAR TREK!
If you put my Nebula Class in the C-Store, I don't even want to describe what horrific acts of terror I will have to commit on my keyboard. We might as well whip open the bible and begin the funeral prayer for my computer, he will unfortunately be the next target.
In all honesty, drastically alter the C-Store.. I'd prefer that people's dreams of playing out the missions of a starfleet captain are not crushed because you could have pulled a stunt that could obliterate a game with such great potential based on such an epic multi-generation tv-series that has never been taken on the MMO scale.
Yeah, Hope you devs, gms, etc. have a good long look at this. This is not hate-raging or lashing out, this is a discussion to voice my opinions on what should be done with this game, after all, the community is what makes a game what it is. I'm sure this isn't the only complaint post you've heard or seen within the past year. And if any of this goes against your forum policies, I'd like to personally apologize, it was not an intentional offense.
For those of you going to reply, heh, i may be arrogant, but I'm sure most of you would agree with what I'm posting here.
(A shout out to any Devs who may come by reading this post, I personally, would like to say you are doing an excellent job with the game from what I've seen. After listening to Craig's and Dan's interviews with game review sites/magazines I'm blooming with excitement for what is yet to come. Keep up the good work, this game can really make it big time if these seasons are frequent and content packed!)
Once again, don't put my nebula class in the C-Store, Or I might have to hate-rage...
Yours Truly,
Captain Themagikz of the U.S.S. Freedom
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Thx
WoW does offer the same as cryptic (mount and in game pets)
EVE online only has 3 slots, but hell not so important there.
I myself was a big no against micro transactyions, but by now I see they are slowly becoming more and more a part of the mmo gaming world to get the money they no longer get from subcriptions (we still pay 15 just like we did 5+ years ago)
The only thing I currently disagree on are the prices for the per character items. I know many are ****ed off about the galaxy X aswell, but I couldn't care less for I hate the galaxy design anyway
This is just something we will have to accept seeing most of the plpayer base accept it in there in lies the power of the companies.
also, i can understand why they charge for character slots...thats alot of data per toon you make. 8xbo's and 8xships (both with equipment) slots or so... no other game has to store that much data on a per character basis,at least i think so.
the other stuff should be in the game allready, but like i said cryptic dont exacly own star trek, so im guessing that atari and cbs are on there backs all the time to squeeze every last penny out of this game before it rock bottoms (basicly they are killing there own game) and i dont see that to be cryptics fault.
not to say that they are blameless, becasue they aint
but this is all pointless becasue as long as people are buying the stuff, they will keep making more and more, untill there is no one left to sell it to.
such a shame that an IP like this has to be all about the money, i love this game and how far its come since beta/launch but some things are getting way out of hand and i seriously see this either going F2P, or just closing down all together
and i really dont want that to happen...:rolleyes:
The seasons are like the wow patches 3.1 3.2 3.3 etc
And in reference to wow i believe they also sell useless mounts for cash in the game.
Yes i will be buying the excelsior when it goes in i am happy to support this game.
Do i need the excelsior? no will it change the game if i cant afford it this month ? no.
Nothing in the c-store is gamebreaking in my opinion.
Cloak on the galaxy-x ? well in 2-3 weeks you can get cloak on the defiant for free at va1. you have to be ra5 for the gal-x anyway
Extra skins for the ships nice. do i need them no.
Tribbles with buffs again nice but in game ones give buffs just as good if not better.
I could go on but i won't
If everything in the c-store went in game great BUT a lot of fluff content would stop there are seperate people working on the c-store team we stop buying, they stop making and get made redundent = less stuff added to game even if we do have to buy it.
In a ideal world everything would go in for a monthly sub but its just not possible. This way if people really want something and it can be made in a hurry :-) we just have to pay for the development of these items afterall all we are buying is fluff
And like i said stuff in the c-store is a seperate buisness from the game i think of it as a in game wal-mart
I hope you continue to play and enjoy this game but nebula is deffinetly c-store
So start bashing the keyboard now but softly and for longer so you dont break in next week
As for EVE since when is it 4 than for I to have been playing on and off for 3+ years and I never seen an option for more than 3 character per account.
WoW TRH (that retareded horse) does give an advantage by making you save a lot of money on mounts small but noticable
tribbles can be bred ingame and I never seen the targ give me a buff??
O and yes blame Atari for they are one F***ed company.
what if blizzard added a b- store store to wow and started charging for items that would continue to fund new items and new content at a much faster rate than they do know, would that then be seen as a bad thing or a good thing.
probably a good thing because everyone has seen 6 years of the current rate of content release. if the new store increased content released both b -store and free content by 30% then that would be great. because people have never seen the rate at which cryptic can release content without the c-store then there tend to be complaints that its all for greed. maybe it is, but its something i personally dont believe.
everyone is entitled to pay as much or as little as they want. i often hear people say cryptic are squeezing us for every penny we have.
no, we the players are choosing to spend our money. if you dont think something is worth the price is any walk of life you dont buy it. if you see something and want but think its overpriced, you dont pay for it.
that rule seams to go out the window in mmo's and everyone complains like they are being forced to hand over their money.
yes it would be great if all these things were included in the game for only the price of the sub, but i guarantee that there would be less content overall if they did. this game is pumping out a huge amount of updates and i want to see it stay at that rate.
again they probably should not have released the game for another year or two but i personally am happy to play the game now and see it grow. every single person that says the game was released too early is correct, but that does not stop them from leaving and playing the game in a years time.
back to the c-store, i do believe there should be ways to earn most of these items in game, probably tied to veteran rewards. that way continued loyalty and play is rewarded.
perhaps at every 100 days we all get to pick one item from the store to have free of charge, or get maybe 400 points every year or something.
i would also prefer that they only do no canon items but its star trek, just about everything we want is canon.
But the c-store is the one thing i dont mind paying for as it supports the game i love and want to see grow. this is becoming like a hobby playing this game and im happy to help fund its continued development.
the cost to store somthing is small yes, but to make sure that data dosnt disapear,maintanace etc. all adds up...
as for charging they charge to get more money they can use for equipment + more personel and thus get more content done and improve the game. Cryptic is not that big and I can understand they need it.
Unlike WoW for example that earns around 1.5 bilion euro a year just froms subs alone I couldn;t
on the captains list there are currently around 650'000 captains. as people tend not to delete them over the next 10 years how large do you think that number could get to
each one can hold a main character, 8 ships, 10 active bos and around 10 inactive bos. and all the inventory they can hold, plus costume slots etc.
even if its its just a few mb (and i suspect it probably more but i dont know for certain), giving us two or three times as many slots and we will be taking up a huge amount of space
lol...on a large scale (like a game) storage costs do hike up... wether you want to belive that or not.
as for WOW, how many years they been going now? close to 9? hmmm your comparing almost a decade of added content to a game that aint even a year old...
ill happily bet my house, that blizz/wow wasnt earning that much in there first year...
computer games cost millions to make. to hire new people, pay overtime, to get new tech, pay the legal costs for licences, to get new software, server maintenance everything. more money means they can add more stuff
if they stop charging us for the c-store they get less money and have less funds to do stuff quickly.
we would probably still get the nebula without the c-store but there is no telling when it would come
I have been hanging out here since August 2008, I played open Beta, early release and I pre-ordered the game before it was released to the public. We were well informed that there would be a C-store in the game before the game was available for purchase and knowing that, I still purchased the pre-order game as well as the pre-order LTS. There are a few things in the C-store that I purchased because I thought they would be nice to have, there are certain thing in the C-store that I do not want at all.
You are not required to purchase anything in the C-store. You can still make Admiral and beyond without making a C-store purchase. You can play all the missions without buying anything from the C-store. Your dog will not die if you don't purchase items from the C-store. And your family will still love you if you do not buy things from the C-store.
Now for my questions...
Why was this not put in the proper forum? The C-store forum is a better place to put feedback for this type of thing.
If you were opposed to the C-store why did you buy the game?
Do you really think that they will get rid of the C-store?
How does the C-store give someone an advantage?
Do you write long letters to the cable company (I pay you every month for my service, but I don't get the PPV movies for free. I feel ripped off) ?
Honestly....the C-store will not go away, it was planned before the game began. No amount of text will get it removed, It is ok if you don't like it for whatever reason (can't afford it, morally opposed to it, mom won't let you have it). But it is here to stay.
i agree with you on nearly everything you said thus far, but some of the stuff that is in the c-store should of been in the game at launch, mainly races and ships... but on the other hand some stuff should belong in the c-store. like character,ship slots etc... basicly nothing that is "content"
or you can just send me your machine, can allways use spare parts :rolleyes:
I would advice some C-4 for a more "going with a bang" effect.
You don't get the work that they've put into it, worth the amount you've spent and the additional work that creating the additional content requires. Sure your 15/month subscription pays for some of that work, the core features that are implemented into the game via the Season releases and over the course of a Season as well. It's not like saying they have not improved the game one iota and are instead shovelling all their resources into paid content. Everyone gets the main features that they've put into the update.
The C-store team is a seperate team of developers, funded by purchases from the C-store. Without the content that people buy, there would be no C-store team and thus none of the content that you're raging about. We just wouldn't see any of it. Sure it may come in, years and years down the road, but the fact is that there wouldn't be any of these available now if it weren't for the store. So now, instead of just wanting your cake and eating it too, you'd rather deny everyone else the chance to have a richer experience because they're willling to pay for it and you aren't?
No one is forcing you to buy any of anything that the C-store has available. You pick and choose what you'd like and what you wouldn't like. Personally, I don't see any point in the bridge packs or races on the C-store. I like some of the costume variants and would buy some of those but not all. You act as if they're making you buy all of everything that's available or you will not be able to play any more. The game is perfectly playable and enjoyable without any of those extras. Stop beating your fists and get off the floor before you choke.
Okay, let's assume you're not being a whiny brat and actually have a point, that everything in the C-store should have been included in the core game. That would require having a larger development team, one that integrates the current core development team as well as the C-store team. That plus all the resources they require would mean a higher cost. Would you be willing to pay a higher subscription rate because of that? There you go, you're turning purple again. Try to breathe.
You quote WoW to say that you pay for the game and expansions as well as the subscription but they have a totally different system. Do they really release new areas and mechanics and content as patches? Or do they save it all up for expansions? Do they get free Seasons like we do? I can't even think of a parallel for the new T5 ships that we're getting free because nothing to do with your character in WoW is big enough or requires as much effort. (As an aside, they spent two weeks just working on the Saucer Seperation mechanic,. Dyou think WoW would have given that away?)
You whine that WoW et. al gives you more character slots and ship slots but you forget how much resources a character, with bridge officers and ships take. You count one character as one character, not one character as, say 12 if you've got one captain, seven BOs and five ships. Count the three slots that Cryptic has given and... you get 26 slots on one server. So... how does that compute again?
There are no new features of the game that are placed in the C-Store. All the features that have been introduced, and promised are included in the core game. The C-Store merely has some bits and pieces of interest. Your game is by no means incomplete if you don't have everything that's on the C-store. I mean, seriously, what use will you have for that many bridge and costume variants. You can't implement them all at once. Some ships admittedly are unique, but again their use in no way detracts from the core game. I don't mind in the slightest that the Nebula and Excelsior are going to be on the C-store considering that I did not expect them to be in-game at all when they weren't introduced at launch. And if you don't support their addition now or don't want to buy them, the choice is simple. Don't buy them. Don't buy them if you don't think that the time the C-store team spent developing them was not worth it for you. That is your option right there. That is what your money will get you. You don't have to have them. But you say they have unique abilities? The devs have already said that they have unique abilities because they have detractions, they are less capable then equivalent ships that lack those abilities. That is the trade-off that is made when making your choice. So, in its way there is no loss because you don't have them.
Learn the difference between need and want. Want means things that are desirable but that you can live without and your Star Trek Online experience will be in no way deminished by the absense of these extras. Needs are things that are game-breaking or changing that you cannot do without.
One mount and what 3 pets =/= the ******** going on in this game
And in EVE you can even pay for your play time with in game currency lol
c-store = bad
free content = good
that is always open to debate. i myself was quite annoyed that the nebula and the excelsior are hitting the store and those ships should probably have been in from the start (although i believe there was a licence issue) and i want them either in as free or have some way to earn them in game. that has not changed. i will buy them as its my choice but i dont believe that a c-store only option is the correct way to go. i dont need the nebula to play the game, i just would like to have it.
but i will buy the nebula if the funds pay for the the ambassador class and helps improve other areas of the game faster.
as i said before, if you get rid of the store and updates slow down, then how many people would complain cryptic are not releasing content fast enough.
The idiots with too much disposable income outnumber those with common sense 1000 to 1
See the articles about My Little Pony on WoW
In regards to your questions, I shall answer them in order
1. It's a discussion forum, it does not matter where I place my grievances. (Unless you are blind this has clearly turned into a discussion)
2. When i purchased the game, I did not look at the in-depth effects the C-Store would have on my interests of Star Trek (Be it that it has prohibited me from obtaining many of the features and looks I imagined when I bought that game (from watching all the episodes of Star Trek: TNG)
3. They won't get rid of it, but as I said, If you took the bloody time to read my origional post, They should reform it, Drastically.
4. Now you've made me hate-rage, And I warned of this in my post. Think about it for 2 ****in seconds why don't you? Races with abilities you can't obtain, Ships with abilities you cannot purchase in-game. Separation of the Saucer-Section. Clearly you have not done research into the most minuscule details that could effect the outcome of a situational battle. Please, go play risk.
We get more free content than C-Store stuff, and the C-Store is primarily fluff you don't need to enjoy the game. Not only that, the more money going to the development house, the more free content they can generate. Not seeing the issue with Cryptic being run like a business, which it is.
but the OP is quite right that we should all have access to the ships skins and races simply because we pay and play monthly, no need to cstore stuff that shouldnt be in there! hey another idea for something they could sell in the cstore, maybe some original trek sounding music they develope themselves, call it sto-tunes. i wouldnt buy any but some might and that could fund free ships and bridge packs and races!