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Disturbing Turn-Offs of the C-Store...

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    that is always open to debate. i myself was quite annoyed that the nebula and the excelsior are hitting the store and those ships should probably have been in from the start (although i believe there was a licence issue) and i want them either in as free or have some way to earn them in game. that has not changed. i will buy them as its my choice but i dont believe that a c-store only option is the correct way to go. i dont need the nebula to play the game, i just would like to have it.

    but i will buy the nebula if the funds pay for the the ambassador class and helps improve other areas of the game faster.

    as i said before, if you get rid of the store and updates slow down, then how many people would complain cryptic are not releasing content fast enough.

    yea,it really is CBS's fault and there damn liscence fee's... if only the world didnt revolve around money lol :rolleyes:

    like i keep saying in many threads, i dont think cryptic should be at the top of the hitlist...it's not there fault they have to go back and forth with other companys to get stuff aproved, and the be told to sell it at more money.

    they probly have targets, and bonuses for getting to those targets, but if the c-store was cheaper then maybe more people would buy stuff... i dunno, i still think content should be included with the sub, anything else is welcome to go on the c-store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Unfortunately Revo, that very argument suggests the game is unsustainable.
    We pay a monthly subscription to play the game so that Cryptic can continue to create content in the game for us to play.
    If they don't, then people will no longer pay to play the game.
    If people stop paying to play, subscriptions fall and less people are here to buy the items from the C store anyway. So following that, once all the people left in the game,( for example lifers who play anyway since they paid up front) have made their C store purchases, who then is left to continue buying the items you say are needed to fund future content?
    IIRC Dstahl already said that Cryptic purchases do not fund season updates, and if that is the case, both of our points are moot and it still does not explain the necessity for a C store.

    The falling back on the Blizzard comparison also has a flaw. Blizzard's mounts are just mounts. The ships (for ex.) in STO are iconic to the IP, the very reason most play a game based on Star Trek. There's hundreds of mounts in wow, but each one is pretty much like another.
    Here, it is akin to an emotional ransom by Cryptic to sell items in a store for extra that are part of what most people associate with the IP itself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    r2data wrote: »
    The problem with your argument is your sense of entitlement.

    Thats where I stopped reading. Usually do with these posts, its funny, on other games (like WoW - yes, I realize theyve been here 5 years, mostly without an in games item cash shop but noone wants to see that of course), where you pay $15 a mionth and they give you free content (other than expansions of course) as part of patches and stuff, its not considered entitlement to want that content, but here it is. I dont get that. I also dont get why all the pro Cryptic whining always has to include that buzzword either.
    You have to realize, that in many other games, you get content like whats in the C-Store free, and when we ask for it free (or at least as poart of our ongoing monthly charges - and please dont give me that tired company line of the $15 ONLY pays for maintenence, noone here believes is when Cryptic says it, Im not gonna buy it from you - a player that doesnt even have access to their books) like we've BEEN getting, you treat us like we're spoiled children, when we've been getting this as part of the service all along in other places.
    Its like going into a Mcdonalds and when you get your food, you ask for some katsup, salt & pepper packets an some napkins and they try to charge you for all of them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The furore over the C-store seems to be mainly about the Nebula and Excelsior. But look at it this way. Those ships are not Cryptic designed. They probably have to pay a royalty to the creators of the design. They even took out the image of Spock in the game because they couldn't afford to pay him for an appearance. So what if the majority of the cost of the ships on the C-store go to royalties to whoever designed the ships? Do you expect Cryptic to take the hit and bring it out just like that? That would probably cost them one or two of the dev team members. Could you live with yourself if that were so? That they'd have to let someone go in order for you to have those two "iconic" vessels in-game? And that there would be less content down the road as a result of that? Or would you rather pay a pittance for the privilege of using a ship design that has taken many many man hours of work, from both the creator's and the Cryptic development team's POV.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Thats where I stopped reading. Usually do with these posts, its funny, on other games (like WoW - yes, I realize theyve been here 5 years, mostly without an in games item cash shop but noone wants to see that of course), where you pay $15 a mionth and they give you free content (other than expansions of course) as part of patches and stuff, its not considered entitlement to want that content, but here it is. I dont get that. I also dont get why all the pro Cryptic whining always has to include that buzzword either.
    You have to realize, that in many other games, you get content like whats in the C-Store free, and when we ask for it free (or at least as poart of our ongoing monthly charges - and please dont give me that tired company line of the $15 ONLY pays for maintenence, noone here believes is when Cryptic says it, Im not gonna buy it from you - a player that doesnt even have access to their books) like we've BEEN getting, you treat us like we're spoiled children, when we've been getting this as part of the service all along in other places.
    Its like going into a Mcdonalds and when you get your food, you ask for some katsup, salt & pepper packets an some napkins and they try to charge you for all of them.

    That assumes the first line sums up the entire argument. I believe I've laid out my point of view sensibly. If you had read the OP and agree with the points listed then at least do me the courtesy of reading my rebuttal before summarily dismissing it.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    r2data, These are the pros and cons a company must consider before pursuing to create a game with such a large background and title. And I credit Cryptic more than ever for that. I hope you all don't think that for one minute that I think Cryptic is doing an awful job. Honestly for what they're staked up against, it's quite phenomenal.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    And no, in regards to your impressive block of text. I am not whining, Just simply stating comparisons and facts to further support my point. Yes it may sound whiny etc. But how else does one voice a grievance?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    r2data wrote: »
    Now here's a person that doesn't read. That assumes the first line sums up the entire argument. I believe I've laid out my point of view sensibly. If you had bothered to read the OP and agree with the points listed then at least do me the courtesy of reading my rebuttal before summarily dismissing it.

    as soon as you take the "entitlement = whining" route, I stop reading. Its an assinine argument. Try rephrasing it without using your buzzword and I might.

    If you want me to go there, the quoted text sounds more whiny that the wall of text that started this thread lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The C-Store is here to stay, and people need to get over it already.

    Starting a dozen new threads every day complaining about the C-Store is as childish as it is stupid.

    I realize that you all are enamored of this idea of a wonderful future in which people aren't oppressed by the existence of money, but that doesn't exist. In the real world that we all live in money makes the world go round.

    And you'd better get used to it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Deck, He made several legitimate points and from what he agrees/disagrees with my OP, he would seem to be more disagreeing than agreeing but nearly to the point of being impartial. He, unlike us, is satisfied. Players always drive for more, and that's what keeps a company moving, however, when the company decides they want to charge the players booku bucks for more, that's when production will come to a standstill and players will riot
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The C-Store is here to stay, and people need to get over it already.

    Starting a dozen new threads every day complaining about the C-Store is as childish as it is stupid.

    I realize that you all are enamored of this idea of a wonderful future in which people aren't oppressed by the existence of money, but that doesn't exist. In the real world that we all live in money makes the world go round.

    And you'd better get used to it.

    I AM used to it, im NOT used to playing a game that I pay a monthly fee for AND get nickelled and dimed to death for in theme content that should have been in the game to start with (iconic uniforms, ships, etc).
    Themagikz wrote: »
    Deck, He made several legitimate points and from what he agrees/disagrees with my OP, he would seem to be more disagreeing than agreeing but nearly to the point of being impartial. He, unlike us, is satisfied. Players always drive for more, and that's what keeps a company moving, however, when the company decides they want to charge the players booku bucks for more, that's when production will come to a standstill and players will riot

    Then I spologize for being an TRIBBLE but when I see that "entitlement" TRIBBLE, it puts me right off the post cause its the same assinine TRIBBLE after that from what Ive seen till now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    as soon as you take the "entitlement = whining" route, I stop reading. Its an assinine argument. Try rephrasing it without using your buzzword and I might.

    Fine cut out the first line. It still works.

    Irony is such an interesting thing when a person that hates buzzwords uses a buzzword like buzzword.

    I always write to say what I mean with every word used in context. The term whiny was used to describe the tone of the argument while entitlement was used to describe the perspective in which the OP was used. How would you describe it, when the gist of the argument is that you are demanding something that you are not getting?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Themagikz wrote: »
    I must say that the best thing, If they were going to keep the C-Store is to offer chances in-game to obtain C-Store points. Such as completing extreme fleet actions on Elite difficulty. Almost near-impossible tasks or feats. Or like I think the chap with the picard avatar said, every 100 days of subscription, credit players with roughly 500 cryptic points so they have a shot at the cool stuffs.

    that could work, im pro what this guy said...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Thats where I stopped reading. Usually do with these posts, its funny, on other games (like WoW - yes, I realize theyve been here 5 years, mostly without an in games item cash shop but noone wants to see that of course), where you pay $15 a mionth and they give you free content (other than expansions of course) as part of patches and stuff, its not considered entitlement to want that content, but here it is. I dont get that. I also dont get why all the pro Cryptic whining always has to include that buzzword either.
    You have to realize, that in many other games, you get content like whats in the C-Store free, and when we ask for it free (or at least as poart of our ongoing monthly charges - and please dont give me that tired company line of the $15 ONLY pays for maintenence, noone here believes is when Cryptic says it, Im not gonna buy it from you - a player that doesnt even have access to their books) like we've BEEN getting, you treat us like we're spoiled children, when we've been getting this as part of the service all along in other places.
    Its like going into a Mcdonalds and when you get your food, you ask for some katsup, salt & pepper packets an some napkins and they try to charge you for all of them.

    So all the new content is suddenly in the C-Store.... :rolleyes:

    Guess people have a pretty low standard for contant when they count a few skins and ships as new and indispensable content. Well in the meantime I enjoy the new ships, the new missions the new minigame and new features that come with the monthly payment and let all the other wuzzies cry about the c-store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    r2data wrote: »
    Fine cut out the first line. It still works.

    Irony is such an interesting thing when a person that hates buzzwords uses a buzzword like buzzword.

    I always write to say what I mean with every word used in context. The term whiny was used to describe the tone of the argument while entitlement was used to describe the perspective in which the OP was used. How would you describe it, when the gist of the argument is that you are demanding something that you are not getting?

    So to you anyone that asks for anything they are not getting where they are but do get elsewhere is "whiny and entitled"?
    Hornet331 wrote: »
    So all the new content is suddenly in the C-Store.... :rolleyes:

    Guess people have a pretty low standard for contant when they count a few skins and ships as new and indispensable content. Well in the meantime I enjoy the new ships, the new missions the new minigame and new features that come with the monthly payment and let all the other wuzzies cry about the c-store.

    Really? Apparently I missed new ships then... which ones are those that have been added to the game and NOT the CStore? And Im especially talking full model ships (Galaxy X, Excelsior, Nebula - the last two are ships we've been asking for since launcjh and before) not just skins.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The C-Store is here to stay, and people need to get over it already.

    Starting a dozen new threads every day complaining about the C-Store is as childish as it is stupid.

    I realize that you all are enamored of this idea of a wonderful future in which people aren't oppressed by the existence of money, but that doesn't exist. In the real world that we all live in money makes the world go round.

    And you'd better get used to it.

    Let's see, People who pay for the game, Logically (Let's do some Vulcan mind tricks here) should have a say in what is done with said game. Now, If what the mass populous wants to be done to the game is not done, the game will lose said mass populous. Therefore, and logically, crippling the game and throwing it into turmoil and degrading it to dust. The more we complain, the closer we get to a resolution / agreement. The sheer fact that you are not driven to obtain what should not be priced, absolutely floors me. Apparently you don't work for the money you spend.

    However! I will give you this. The purchases are optional.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Regardless, and I shall re-iterate. I love the new features, and I'm very pleased with what is coming out. I'm just protesting like Deck over here, that we shouldn't be as he so eloquently put it "Nickeled and Dimed" for theme related extras.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Syrinx wrote:
    Unfortunately Revo, that very argument suggests the game is unsustainable.
    We pay a monthly subscription to play the game so that Cryptic can continue to create content in the game for us to play.

    No it does not.

    i said more money, equals more content faster. less money equals less content, slower.
    i never suggested that without the c-store that the game becomes unsustainable or that it should be implied from my comments. we are getting a lot of content. i dare say much more than most other games i have seen. considering sto has a small team and they dont have millions of subscribers like wow we are getting a huge amount of update. less c-store does means less updates but it does not then become unsustainable.
    Syrinx wrote:

    IIRC Dstahl already said that Cryptic purchases do not fund season updates, and if that is the case, both of our points are moot and it still does not explain the necessity for a C store.

    i dont believe i have seen that quote. i know he said c-store funds future c-store but i don't believe he said it does not fund the game itself. i would have a hard time believing that unless there is a clear quote.

    it still explains the future c-store content. if the c-store team is actually being paid out of the revenue from the store then yes it would. other team members might then be required to spend their time designing the c-store items to add to the game for free like the nebula and excelsior, slowing down work on other areas.

    this is all a little complex to talk about as none of us know how and where the money goes and who does what with it or how their teams are structured. none of us know cryptics financial situations and how they allocate their money, and we can only go off of what we hear from the devs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The C-Store is here to stay, and people need to get over it already.

    Starting a dozen new threads every day complaining about the C-Store is as childish as it is stupid.

    I realize that you all are enamored of this idea of a wonderful future in which people aren't oppressed by the existence of money, but that doesn't exist. In the real world that we all live in money makes the world go round.

    And you'd better get used to it.

    the trill speaks wise words
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Liandras wrote:
    the trill speaks wise words

    Read up a few posts. The trill is logically in disbelief.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Themagikz wrote: »
    Regardless, and I shall re-iterate. I love the new features, and I'm very pleased with what is coming out. I'm just protesting like Deck over here, that we shouldn't be as he so eloquently put it "Nickeled and Dimed" for theme related extras.

    Holy TRIBBLE, I think thats the first time Ive been agreed with lol
    And hey, I like the game. its fun, but I dont like being bled for theme related stuff that should be in the game (ships, costumes) to start with.
    as for the "WoW does it too" argument, unless Im missing something, Im not seeing Horde related or Alliance related mounts (or emotes or clothes etc) in the Blizzard store. I DO see account based stuff ONE mount and what, two pets?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Themagikz wrote: »
    Let's see, People who pay for the game, Logically (Let's do some Vulcan mind tricks here) should have a say in what is done with said game. Now, If what the mass populous wants to be done to the game is not done, the game will lose said mass populous. Therefore, and logically, crippling the game and throwing it into turmoil and degrading it to dust. The more we complain, the closer we get to a resolution / agreement. The sheer fact that you are not driven to obtain what should not be priced, absolutely floors me. Apparently you don't work for the money you spend.
    While I agree with you, in that companies need to pay more attention to the desires of their customers, that's simply not true in all cases.

    Specifically in the case of the C-Store. People complain about it a lot on the forums, but in game a LOT of people have C-Store items? Anyone remember the wave of Caitians? That's a lot of money that Cryptic got thanks to the C-Store.

    Discussing which items should go on the C-Store? Sure, that makes sense. Complaining that the C-Store shouldn't exist or that Cryptic should stop utilizing it does not. The suits have already decided that STO will have a C-Store, nothing is going to change that. Filling the forums with hundreds of threads about the C-Store is not going to change that.

    But it does annoy people who come to the forums and would like to see something other than dozens of threads complaining about the C-Store.

    Also, there is a C-Store forum. Doesn't this thread belong in the C-Store forum?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    No it does not.

    i said more money, equals more content faster. less money equals less content, slower.
    i never suggested that without the c-store that the game becomes unsustainable or that it should be implied from my comments.

    Yes, the devs do that themselves
    I asked how the company justifies their C-Store and was told by Zinkievich that "if we didn't have that revenue from the C-Store, items in the C-Store wouldn't get made" and that the store allows items to be completed and made available to players more quickly.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/feature/4110/page/1

    IF of course you believe what theyre saying lol
    Also, there is a C-Store forum. Doesn't this thread belong in the C-Store forum?

    lol yes, bury the thread there so noone will read it (cause unless theyre following a thread that gets moved there, noone reads that forum). Im waiting for it actually, thats what they uaually DO
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Really? Apparently I missed new ships then... which ones are those that have been added to the game and NOT the CStore? And Im especially talking full model ships (Galaxy X, Excelsior, Nebula - the last two are ships we've been asking for since launcjh and before) not just skins.

    The Klingon ship. Plus new functions that hadn't been implemented before on, admittedly, reused ships.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    While I agree with you, in that companies need to pay more attention to the desires of their customers, that's simply not true in all cases.

    Specifically in the case of the C-Store. People complain about it a lot on the forums, but in game a LOT of people have C-Store items? Anyone remember the wave of Caitians? That's a lot of money that Cryptic got thanks to the C-Store.

    Discussing which items should go on the C-Store? Sure, that makes sense. Complaining that the C-Store shouldn't exist or that Cryptic should stop utilizing it does not. The suits have already decided that STO will have a C-Store, nothing is going to change that. Filling the forums with hundreds of threads about the C-Store is not going to change that.

    But it does annoy people who come to the forums and would like to see something other than dozens of threads complaining about the C-Store.

    Also, there is a C-Store forum. Doesn't this thread belong in the C-Store forum?

    As I said before to the other. It is turning in to more of a discussion, therefore either forums is applicable. And like I said, I don't want to see the C-Store go away. Simply the items offered changed and maybe a few given to the players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Yes, the devs do that themselves



    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/feature/4110/page/1

    IF of course you believe what theyre saying lol

    Not having the C-store means the C-store content would not be there. It in no way implies that the game would not be there, or that any of the in-game elements would not be there. The extras pay for the extras.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If any of you have been following the release of Starcraft 2's Battle.net 2.0, You will see that Blizzard is also going to attempt a style of the C-Store by selling premium maps. I will inevitably hate Blizzard for this action. However, due to the current MASS of complaints, Blizzard announced the option will not be implemented until later after the release IF! The player base would accept it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Themagikz wrote: »
    Deck, He made several legitimate points and from what he agrees/disagrees with my OP, he would seem to be more disagreeing than agreeing but nearly to the point of being impartial. He, unlike us, is satisfied. Players always drive for more, and that's what keeps a company moving, however, when the company decides they want to charge the players booku bucks for more, that's when production will come to a standstill and players will riot

    Thanks for the support. My apologies for making the post sound more hostile than it should have been in retrospect.
    Themagikz wrote: »
    I must say that the best thing, If they were going to keep the C-Store is to offer chances in-game to obtain C-Store points. Such as completing extreme fleet actions on Elite difficulty. Almost near-impossible tasks or feats. Or like I think the chap with the picard avatar said, every 100 days of subscription, credit players with roughly 500 cryptic points so they have a shot at the cool stuffs.

    I would agree with such an approach. It would go to great lengths to appease some of the more disguntled people and give people an incentive to stay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010

    IF of course you believe what theyre saying lol

    im a trusting sort of guy, lol
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