Don't even bother reading this if you cannot devote at least 10-15 minutes to the point I'm going to make.
After about 70 Hours of play-time clocked in and currently sitting at a Captain Rank 3 Human Tactical Officer, I've come to the conclusion it would be a good time to start digging deeper into the roots of this game to see if it will keep my attention for more than a month. (If you will notice, I'm not going to directly into the topic of the C-Store just yet, I will attempt to make a point first relevant to the topic).
Let's start off with the game itself in general. It's incomplete to say the least. Not trying to be harsh but seriously this is why the game doesn't have as many players as the fanbase thought it would (I'm going to make a very biased comparison to World Of Warcraft in the next paragraph). Many questions about Episodes are left un-answered, the site itself doesn't even accurately describe what in the Sol System is going on (If you didn't get the reference, it's WTH) with the current time and place of the game's setting itself.
Patches are fine and dandy, and add some much anticipated content, but this is where things begin to get very shaky and it's almost to the point where I'd rather quit than play with such un-evened opportunities (Note, I said un-evened, not "Omg that is so hax and i haz to pay more $$$ 4 it!?). For those of you who don't spend $500 on "Cryptic-Points", you know what I'm getting at. We already paid for the game itself, and we are still forced to pay a $15 / month fee to play. This is where I'm really confused. In a game like World of Warcraft (Which mind you I already told you I would make this comment eventually, and yes, I have played WoW for 5 years now and have good reason to use it as a point of reference) you purchase the game, and the expansions that come with it every year and still pay $15 / month, similar to Star Trek Online except for the fact that they release patches instead of expansions (Mainly from my point of view, the seasons are too small in file to ship out as expansions).
Oddly enough, when you purchase the game and the expansions, you get access to everything, yeah there are some premium features that require some extra cash outside the game to do, however those are purely to do with movement of characters across a multi-server game and changing the name / faction of said character (If you worked in Database Systems, you would know that sometimes the transfer of said file can be at times quite complicated). What really makes me curious is how limited Cryptic makes us unless we purchase extras from them (Yes I know what your thinking "BS Bro, They let us make klingons and become rear admirals with the top ships", Ok, why can't you be a Caitian Rear Admiral since they are allegedly part of the federation, oh looky Cryptic wants more money from you other than the $15/month they already charge you).
I've honestly never seen a game suck it's players dry to the bone just so they could have access to features which should in all honesty, be already given to them when they purchased the game. I can reference 5 more games and sit here and say why they do things better than Cryptic and how much more successful they are, but no, I'm going to now outline exactly why this C-Store nonsense should be revised and drastically altered to only used for Character Data Altering Services.
Let's divide it up into what's good and bad about it now, and a very simple change that could be made to increase the player's overall view of the game and playing experience.
Going to start off listing some pros, good first, then the bad.
Pros:
1. Hey man, you get some cool stuff that most other players can't get unless they want to spend mega bucks on some virtual items.
2. Some features like extra re-specs and name changes and special hull registry's are somethings that are worth paying for.
3. You can use things other players can't.
(Yeah, really not that many Pros, prepare for some Khans, err I mean cons!)
Cons:
1. It costs money, which the game itself charges you monthly.
2. If your under 18 and your parents are the Anti-Christs of video games, might want to go play a different game if you really want something from the C-Store.
3. Certain special features such as Bridges / Ships / Races, are prohibited from the standard game unless you purchase bridge packs or special ships or races on the C-store.
4. Some players may find that they can obtain somewhat of an advantage over other players by having a race that has abilities that they couldn't obtain (If your going to try to quote this, just seriously I'll write you a 10 paragraph hate-rage as to why this is a valid point).
5. Why are we limited to 3 character slots, bro, WoW has 10 (per server!!!), and even EvE-Online has at the least 4 (If I'm not mistaken I think it was upped to 6, FREE OF CHARGE!)
6. There's a limit on how many ships we can own? So let me get this straight, if we want to put one extra escort in the virtual drydock, its going to cost me around $5?
7. Your giving things to other players who simply put more money in your pocket and make the game quite unbalanced and unfair. (Oh let me guess, just like the Nebula and the Excelsior your putting in the C-Store, any other cool ships that all the players DID NOT WANT IN THE C-Store, are going to end up there?)
Solution: (For anyone who is interested, there have been multiple suggestions for solutions posted throughout the thread, please take the time to review them and not just go based off my suggestions.)
1. Only use the C-Store for name changes and account transfers maybe, and it will hurt me to say this but I suppose you need some money (lol), go ahead and keep the option to add character slots. (And why not start selling t-shirts and some other STO gear, that'd be cool)
2. Give your players what they paid for, Star Trek, the whole shabang, not a piece meal choppy unfair advantage game for people who want to stuff your pockets with cash. (This will kill the MMO in good time if you keep this up). THIS MEANS ALL THE SHIP SKINS, ALL THE BRIDGES, ALL THE RACES THAT WE EXPECT TO SEE IN STAR TREK!
If you put my Nebula Class in the C-Store, I don't even want to describe what horrific acts of terror I will have to commit on my keyboard. We might as well whip open the bible and begin the funeral prayer for my computer, he will unfortunately be the next target.
In all honesty, drastically alter the C-Store.. I'd prefer that people's dreams of playing out the missions of a starfleet captain are not crushed because you could have pulled a stunt that could obliterate a game with such great potential based on such an epic multi-generation tv-series that has never been taken on the MMO scale.
Yeah, Hope you devs, gms, etc. have a good long look at this. This is not hate-raging or lashing out, this is a discussion to voice my opinions on what should be done with this game, after all, the community is what makes a game what it is. I'm sure this isn't the only complaint post you've heard or seen within the past year. And if any of this goes against your forum policies, I'd like to personally apologize, it was not an intentional offense.
For those of you going to reply, heh, i may be arrogant, but I'm sure most of you would agree with what I'm posting here.
(A shout out to any Devs who may come by reading this post, I personally, would like to say you are doing an excellent job with the game from what I've seen. After listening to Craig's and Dan's interviews with game review sites/magazines I'm blooming with excitement for what is yet to come. Keep up the good work, this game can really make it big time if these seasons are frequent and content packed!)
Once again, don't put my nebula class in the C-Store, Or I might have to hate-rage...
Yours Truly,
Captain Themagikz of the U.S.S. Freedom
For one you are comparing a game like STO that announced it was in developement in the Summer of 2008 after Perpetual dropped the ball. By Feb 2009 you had a release date. That is amazing no matter how you look at it.
Next, you are comparing a game like WOW (which is a step backwards in MMO's, anti Sandbox and it has made Instancing famous) that is another rant for another day; to STO. How does it make sense to compare a game like WOW that has 6 years of expansions and patches behind it to a game that came out last Feb?
The next thing is the Cryptic store is a great idea. For the last decade in all MMO's people have sold characters, gear, and gold online on sites like Ebay. So what Cryptic has done is taken that concept and put it in game calling it the "C-Store". The C-Store also gives the more casual players the ability to actually buy things they want. The only people who are mad at the C-Store are the kids who can play all day and all night.
Also why are you complaining about a $15 game when there are tons of people out there who will spend $6-$8 bucks on a pack of cigarettes, $6-$20 on fast food, $30 for paperview events, $400 on an Iphone, $15 on a buffet, and the list goes on and on, but you expect to play a game online for an unlimited time for free? If you are crying about paying for an online game, maybe you should't be playing an online game.
I just had a new thought as to how this illustrates the diversity of the wants of this community. This is in no way an attack on you though Deck and I apologise if it is percieved as such.
The Klingons are decrying that the Federation gets three new ships when they only get one, while the anti-C-store people are complaining that there are two new ships on the store when there are none in game.
That just goes to show the complexities of things and the futility of trying to please everyone at the same time.
Easy way to please them... dont put new ships in the Cstore and make ships AND content for the Klingons. If they cant do what we're paying them to do and they need the funds from the Cstore just to make the content that should have been in there to start with, I HAVE to ask why we're still paying these guys.
I cant really think of another service that Id be willing to pay someone for with this kind of incompetence.
I For the last decade in all MMO's people have sold characters, gear, and gold online on sites like Ebay. So what Cryptic has done is taken that concept and put it in game calling it the "C-Store"..
Are you honestly trying to say that the game companies becoming goldseller/buyers is a GOOD THING?!
Easy way to please them... dont put new ships in the Cstore and make ships AND content for the Klingons. If they cant do what we're paying them to do and they need the funds from the Cstore just to make the content that should have been in there to start with, I HAVE to ask why we're still paying these guys.
I cant really think of another service that Id be willing to pay someone for with this kind of incompetence.
Are you honestly trying to say that the game companies becoming goldseller/buyers is a GOOD THING?!
My point being is that it's quite balanced. Some for you, some for me and some for Cryptic and even then, no one is forced to buy anything additional for Cryptic. Still, there's no pleasing everyone. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Id think anyone playing Klingomns and most playing Feds would disagree there.
Balance and Klingon dont go together in the same sentance around here
There is that. That's why I said it illustrates the complexities of things, where everyone has their own point of view and it's hard for lots of people to agree.
There is that. That's why I said it illustrates the complexities of things, where everyone has their own point of view and it's hard for lots of people to agree.
Yes, but I doubt theres anyone that agrees that the Klingons dont need major help lol
Theres a unifying point for the commmunity
I really think the issue people are having is the slippery slope that the C-Store has become. It appears to have become the end all be all for development efforts. It reminds me of extortion.
Here is how:
- It was stated if it is found in the C-Store then it would be available in-game. Outside of the pre-order items and the Gal-X, I have yet to find a token letting me unlock Tellerites.
- It is by far really lopsided on development that is C-Store vs Free.
- When it was first made, it was stated items would be cosmetic only. Now items are game changing and introduced via the C-Store.
- Tied to the above statement, the C-Store was not supposed to give an advantage to those that can afford to pay money vs those that can't. Gal-X -> Advantage & Connie -> Advantage.
I am sure people can quote article after article to back this.
I just think Cryptic needs a careful review on what is offered via the C-Store and what is free.
Blakinik
DISCLAIMER - I fall under the category of those can afford to pay more. However, there is no mechanism currently that would allow for a normal subscriber to convert and acquire C-Store points without the outlay of additional cash revenue. As such, it does invoke a pay to play mentality that I have hated on past games I have played.
.....
I myself was a big no against micro transactyions, but by now I see they are slowly becoming more and more a part of the mmo gaming world to get the money they no longer get from subcriptions (we still pay 15 just like we did 5+ years ago).....
That....is a very valid point.
we have been paying $15 a month for quite some time now. Development costs inflate...but subs really haven't, hence I see your point in the rationalization of micro transactions. And I agree totally.
Ah true, But in terms of WoW, those extra things, the pets dont give buffs like the tribble and targ do and the mounts are purely cosmetic whereas ships in STO could be used in several different ways which effects gameplay directly. Also, I know for a fact there are 4 slots on EvE , Considering I played that for 3 years.
WOW sells a mount in micro-transaction that scales with your riding skill. Not only can you use it on land but you can use it to fly as well. With the mount you can access areas you wouldn't normally be able to by passing over high level mobs.
The problem with your argument is your sense of entitlement. You want everything you want at the price you want when you want it and how you want it. It's like going to a cake maker, saying "I'll buy a vanilla cake, now layer the top with chocolate and cherries and sprinkles free for me. It's still cake right? Like Star Trek is still Star Trek, with or without the bells and whistles. Or if you want an in-game example it's like you're saying, I've bought the game, I paid my 15/month, now I want to be RA5 in 1 hour and be damned if I don't get it.
You don't get the work that they've put into it, worth the amount you've spent and the additional work that creating the additional content requires. Sure your 15/month subscription pays for some of that work, the core features that are implemented into the game via the Season releases and over the course of a Season as well. It's not like saying they have not improved the game one iota and are instead shovelling all their resources into paid content. Everyone gets the main features that they've put into the update.
The C-store team is a seperate team of developers, funded by purchases from the C-store. Without the content that people buy, there would be no C-store team and thus none of the content that you're raging about. We just wouldn't see any of it. Sure it may come in, years and years down the road, but the fact is that there wouldn't be any of these available now if it weren't for the store. So now, instead of just wanting your cake and eating it too, you'd rather deny everyone else the chance to have a richer experience because they're willling to pay for it and you aren't?
No one is forcing you to buy any of anything that the C-store has available. You pick and choose what you'd like and what you wouldn't like. Personally, I don't see any point in the bridge packs or races on the C-store. I like some of the costume variants and would buy some of those but not all. You act as if they're making you buy all of everything that's available or you will not be able to play any more. The game is perfectly playable and enjoyable without any of those extras. Stop beating your fists and get off the floor before you choke.
Okay, let's assume you're not being a whiny brat and actually have a point, that everything in the C-store should have been included in the core game. That would require having a larger development team, one that integrates the current core development team as well as the C-store team. That plus all the resources they require would mean a higher cost. Would you be willing to pay a higher subscription rate because of that? There you go, you're turning purple again. Try to breathe.
You quote WoW to say that you pay for the game and expansions as well as the subscription but they have a totally different system. Do they really release new areas and mechanics and content as patches? Or do they save it all up for expansions? Do they get free Seasons like we do? I can't even think of a parallel for the new T5 ships that we're getting free because nothing to do with your character in WoW is big enough or requires as much effort. (As an aside, they spent two weeks just working on the Saucer Seperation mechanic,. Dyou think WoW would have given that away?)
You whine that WoW et. al gives you more character slots and ship slots but you forget how much resources a character, with bridge officers and ships take. You count one character as one character, not one character as, say 12 if you've got one captain, seven BOs and five ships. Count the three slots that Cryptic has given and... you get 26 slots on one server. So... how does that compute again?
There are no new features of the game that are placed in the C-Store. All the features that have been introduced, and promised are included in the core game. The C-Store merely has some bits and pieces of interest. Your game is by no means incomplete if you don't have everything that's on the C-store. I mean, seriously, what use will you have for that many bridge and costume variants. You can't implement them all at once. Some ships admittedly are unique, but again their use in no way detracts from the core game. I don't mind in the slightest that the Nebula and Excelsior are going to be on the C-store considering that I did not expect them to be in-game at all when they weren't introduced at launch. And if you don't support their addition now or don't want to buy them, the choice is simple. Don't buy them. Don't buy them if you don't think that the time the C-store team spent developing them was not worth it for you. That is your option right there. That is what your money will get you. You don't have to have them. But you say they have unique abilities? The devs have already said that they have unique abilities because they have detractions, they are less capable then equivalent ships that lack those abilities. That is the trade-off that is made when making your choice. So, in its way there is no loss because you don't have them.
Learn the difference between need and want. Want means things that are desirable but that you can live without and your Star Trek Online experience will be in no way deminished by the absense of these extras. Needs are things that are game-breaking or changing that you cannot do without.
I hope you ain't in sales, or you're gonna go hungry...
we have been paying $15 a month for quite some time now. Development costs inflate...but subs really haven't, hence I see your point in the rationalization of micro transactions. And I agree totally.
very interesting.
I would have to add here that the current pricing structure is based upon what the market will bear. Just like any other product or service. The current situation with the C-Store is an attempt by a company to try and get around what the market wishes to pay for a particular product/service and see if additional revenue can be gained. The best example I can give atm would be how most major airrlines are adding all the extra fee's onto a ticket price. In both cases however, you are seeing the consumer rebel against this type of behavior and pull back with their wallets.
The collapse of the housing market several years ago (which put me out of a job), and the current recession have provided a really interesteing look into how the business/consumer relationship works. Many companies held to the belief that after the initial bust, things would return to normal. Everyone in business expected that once things blew over, they would just go back to collecting the same amount of money from everyone.
Well, welcome to the new world kids. The current eceonmic situation does not allow for the usual +10% over last year/quarter/month revenue model with any expectation of continually raising prices or finding alternate revenue streams to get people to spend their money. How many companies have went out of business over the last three years based on the fact that sales were not what the budgeting department expected them to be? Some companies learned to operate within the realm of their customers buying concerns, some did not and are now gone.
While I agree that businesses are in business to make money, they are only going to be as succsessful as the supply vs. demand market relationship allows them to be. I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to change up the current pricing model of mmo's. That would probably be based on the fact that Blizzard has set a pricing, content, playability and player base model that has slowly become the standard. Just because you have a flashy license to base a game off of and put it on a mid range engine does not give you a real good platform to start thinking that your product is premium. It's a good way to be a flash in the pan and then fade to nothing. At the end of the day, that's what all the so called "whining" is about. No one here wants to:
a) Be nickel and dimed to death
b) See the game go the way of Tabula Rasa
I know all the fanboi's (that are obvioulsly bigger than me, and my GEEK is strong!) are going to say to just shut up and move on. Well, no. I don't have to, I don't need to and I don't want to. I am participating in an experiment of market forces in action, I'm enjoying it and I hope to eventually see a quantitative resolution to it. For those of you that don't like it, please go take your frustrations out on your kids! That's what they are there for! Besides that, forum PvP does not have a C-Store related cost so it is sub based, therefore I am getting my money's worth!
Comcast and I have a mutual relationship, thanks for asking. In other news, I've had a splendid morning with the forums, and a good laugh at your insolence for quoting the wrong section of my OP. Above which I clearly stated a "Solution" outline. But my main vote remains to abolish it. Regardless, I shall re-edit upon my insights from this discussion.
Have a fantastic day . (You have been corrected as you needed to be)
<snicker> mutual relationship....
Didn't realize there was a "wrong section" of your post, I just quoted what you said...
when you do your "re-edit" go ahead and remove all the wrong sections so we know what you actually want to tell us...
Btw, Eve Online gives free expansions, that not only includes content but the not so recent anymore graphics update, all the while doing it with a measely 100k or so subscribers per month. Also Tabula Rasa for one opened up way too many servers compounded with the fact that well it wasn't really a good game.
As for the C-store, to start with it was mentioned that it was cosmetics only, and upon release given the scarcity of content 2 races were already on the C-store (Plus the fact that racial attributes are hardly cosmetic unless you place them as an option for aliens). Now we've got actual ships in there not just costumes as well as stuff like bridge officer slots which we normally receive 2 of every rank cept at captain and apparently vice admiral and probably beyond just so they can sell more of those. I suppose it really comes down with would you rather milk an one time dollar here and dollar there every now and then or would you rather keep on receiving a $15 monthly subscription. Cause frankly new content keeps people playing, however most people aren't going to be willing to pay extra for additional content when they're already paying $15 a month and may just decide to find other places to spend it.
Does a C-store bring additional revenue sure. Does having a C-store in a p2p game makes some people quit sure. Does insufficient content make people lose interest sure. Does all this justify still keeping the C-store, well that's not really my place to say nor do I have sufficent data. All I can say is that monthly fees are a decently significant investment, specially over the years. Course unlike cellphones, we're not bound by contract and can quit should we feel like we're not getting our money's worth, or at the very least cut our losses should projected expenses be greater than they're worth.
The C-store team is a seperate team of developers, funded by purchases from the C-store. Without the content that people buy, there would be no C-store team and thus none of the content that you're raging about. We just wouldn't see any of it. Sure it may come in, years and years down the road, but the fact is that there wouldn't be any of these available now if it weren't for the store. So now, instead of just wanting your cake and eating it too, you'd rather deny everyone else the chance to have a richer experience because they're willling to pay for it and you aren't?t.
blabla...
really? how would you know that? what we know is the STO team has limited staff on the pay roll... do you really believe they have spare dev, graphic designer, FX guy, programmers etc just working on filling up the C STORES? at best the C store team is composed of a few members of each team and they meet up once in a while to discuss which new items it would be good to add...
a proof would be Capt logan...who worked on the nebula/excelsior as well as some free in game contents...
and i would not be surprised the staff who worked on both in game bridges and sold in the C stores are the same persons...
I don t believe a second that the C store items would not be here if there was no revenue from it...why would they add something free in game when they can sell it as they know people want them.
they just pull away some people from the various core teams to work on C store items or just to fill in their work loads when the core job is done or delayed... i wonder why...:rolleyes:
this remind me one of my good friend who always when talking about his business says
"no problem WE can do that in no time" while he s running a one man motorcycle shop... it s all about appearance...
if you have some sense of humour you might enjoy this
WOW sells a mount in micro-transaction that scales with your riding skill. Not only can you use it on land but you can use it to fly as well. With the mount you can access areas you wouldn't normally be able to by passing over high level mobs.
The mount is really no different than any other mount you can purchase in-game. All flying mounts in the game allow you to pass over high-level mobs and other content, and they all also work on the ground.
I also don't think the C-Store would have such a poor reputation if Cryptic threw us a bone once and a while. Sure, we can buy new bridges... but how about adding a couple new ones to the core game, for everyone, once in a while? They don't have to be the ones already on the C-Store... but we've had the same selection of Bridges since launch, and with the new Interiors coming on line, I think this is more of an issue now. All the new bridges have been C-Store only, and there are plenty of Bridge packs already.
I also like how moving this thread to the C-Store forum completely crippled how many replies it's gotten.
The mount is really no different than any other mount you can purchase in-game. All flying mounts in the game allow you to pass over high-level mobs and other content, and they all also work on the ground.
I also don't think the C-Store would have such a poor reputation if Cryptic threw us a bone once and a while. Sure, we can buy new bridges... but how about adding a couple new ones to the core game, for everyone, once in a while? They don't have to be the ones already on the C-Store... but we've had the same selection of Bridges since launch, and with the new Interiors coming on line, I think this is more of an issue now. All the new bridges have been C-Store only, and there are plenty of Bridge packs already.
I also like how moving this thread to the C-Store forum completely crippled how many replies it's gotten.
As I said before. The GMs would not lock the post, simply try to move it. Regardless, I saved my rant into a wordpad document for when I'd like to re-begin my arguement. Also, to the Dev/GM who moved my thread. What is your response? I'm quite curious.
As am I. The whole point here is poor customer relations, so an acknowledgement that is a little better than the last one I got from Stormy would be nice.
As am I. The whole point here is poor customer relations, so an acknowledgement that is a little better than the last one I got from Stormy would be nice.
Surely then, they couldn't let such a long and developed discussion such as this couldn't go without response! Am I correct in this assumption?
the diffrence with all those games you have pointed out, is they dont have a big money-hungry company poking them with a stick constantly to get more money out of there players...
Not quite true. Blizzard is pretty money hungry.
The reason their in-game store doesn't offer items the same way Cryptic's does, is Blizzard's game is far too entrenched and in business with third party sellers. So they can't undercut the one thing that keeps their sub numbers so high.
Cryptic actively campaigns against third party sellers. Part of their motivation is ... The C-Store.
Ni Hao! U Buy Gold Yes? ... That's why Blizzard isn't offering you items that have an in-game impact. Or else they severly undercut those 10s of millions of subscribers they tout so loudly in their press releases.
other games (like WoW - yes, I realize theyve been here 5 years, mostly without an in games item cash shop but noone wants to see that of course).
you forgot about all the vaniity items in WoW that can only be achived by buying mass amounts of there card and/or miniature game. (also look up the price of some of these things and ebay)
See Blizzard has been nickle and diming people for a while. Also if the WoW card game didn't exsist those items most likely wouldn't have either, and if you don't want any of the card items just don't buy the cards, just like the c-store you don't want the items, don't buy them.
(And Wow's card game has been going on for atleast 3 years if not more.)
A [Tabard of Flame].
A [Hippogryph Hatchling], an in-game companion.
A [Riding Turtle], with normal run speed.
A [Picnic Basket], a usable item that sets up an umbrella and grill.
A gorilla, [Bananas], an in-game companion.
A fortune Telling [Imp in a Ball].
A [Goblin Gumbo Kettle].
A [Fishing Chair].
A [Spectral Tiger] mount (also available as an epic mount)
A [Robotic Homing Chicken], an in-game companion.
A [Paper Flying Machine Kit], a usable item similar to the [Heavy Leather Ball]
A [Dragon Kite] (Acts as a non-combat pet).
[Papa Hummel's Old-Fashioned Pet Biscuit], a consumable that increases the size of small pets.
A [Goblin Weather Machine - Prototype 01-B], a usable item that creates weather effects over the player.
The [X-51 Nether-Rocket], a flying mount (upgradable to the [X-51 Nether-Rocket X-TREME] when Riding skill reaches 300).
The [Path of Illidan], a consumable that provides a flame effect at a players feet.
A [D.I.S.C.O.], A disco ball that makes players near it dance and plays music.
A [Soul-Trader Beacon], a companion and seller.
The [Party G.R.E.N.A.D.E.], an item that causes those in range to dance with streamers and confetti for one minute.
A [The Flag of Ownership], a flag which impales downed enemy players or creatures. Also emotes "X has placed the flag of ownership in Ys corpse.
A [Big Battle Bear], a black bear mount similar to the Amani War Bear, without the troll-ish decorations and without bear goggles.
The [Sandbox Tiger], an item that places a rideable spectral tiger on a spring that can be ridden by any player
The [Epic Purple Shirt], this item is a purple shirt that will surely make you the Center of Attention (being the name of the card, Note: item name may be incorrect)
The [Foam Sword Rack], allows the player to place a foam sword rack on the ground, from which players can draw foam swords and battle each other
The [Path of Cenarius], a consumable that provides a flower effect at a players effect.
An [Ogre Pinata], A breakable Ogre head-shaped pinata that when killed, drops bubble gum.
The [Magic Rooster Egg], A giant rooster mount.
an ogre trinket
a firework trinket
and a shload of tabards
I can understand someone not liking the current C-store arrangement.
Now, on to WoW.
Quoted from Wikipedia: "Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001.[7] The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise."
November 23, 2004, hmmmm so Blizzard has had 5 1/2 years to clear out bugs, add content, make expansions (which have sold for what, $50.00 U.S. per...$30.00, somewhere in between?), and generally polish a game to the product they have today?
Comparitively, STO has had roughly 5 months. less than 1/12 the time. Perhaps compare apples to apples?
I'm an EvE fan personally, yet I refuse to post "CCP has this and this and this in EvE, STO doesn't have that." for exactly the reason I cited above.
If you don't like the game, there's the wormhole. Don't let it close on your TRIBBLE on the way through. Please feel free to go make "Internet is for TRIBBLE", "Leroy Jenkins", or whatever fraps you choose to capture with your $15.00 monthly.
Do I think STO is perfect? No. Do I like the current C-store? No. Do I think there's going to be improvements over the next 5 years, while STO ages to WoW and EvE's current ages? That really goes without saying.
You make some good points. And those two games you name will always be the big brother and sister of STO. STO will always be behind those two, and as such it is like comparing apples to oranges, or mandarins or...well..you get the point.
When WoW released, it was garbage, it has come a long way and is getting a huge revamp in their next expansion. So, just wait. STO will one day be able to fill their own boots quite well I think. Cryptic seems to listen to us enough, and voice their awareness of things we don't like and things we want and do like. So, perhaps they will improve the C-Store in a way to our liking that will also meet their business model.
I can understand someone not liking the current C-store arrangement.
Now, on to WoW.
Quoted from Wikipedia: "Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001.[7] The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise."
November 23, 2004, hmmmm so Blizzard has had 5 1/2 years to clear out bugs, add content, make expansions (which have sold for what, $50.00 U.S. per...$30.00, somewhere in between?), and generally polish a game to the product they have today?
Comparitively, STO has had roughly 5 months. less than 1/12 the time. Perhaps compare apples to apples?
I'm an EvE fan personally, yet I refuse to post "CCP has this and this and this in EvE, STO doesn't have that." for exactly the reason I cited above.
If you don't like the game, there's the wormhole. Don't let it close on your TRIBBLE on the way through. Please feel free to go make "Internet is for TRIBBLE", "Leroy Jenkins", or whatever fraps you choose to capture with your $15.00 monthly.
Do I think STO is perfect? No. Do I like the current C-store? No. Do I think there's going to be improvements over the next 5 years, while STO ages to WoW and EvE's current ages? That really goes without saying.
Actually you don't cite Eve for the same reason as Wow. Cause was Eve a pos when it first came out sure. Did it get better over the years of course. Did they ever charge you anything asides from the monthly fee for improvements/updates much less expansions, no. That is where it clearly diverges from Sto though most mmos for that matter. Point at hand is that the C-store's essentially charging you for content on top of the standard fee that pretty much every single MMO with a p2p scheme offers for free.
All really comes down to why people play mmos, mainly for a persistent changing online experience. When you no longer have sufficient content to keep people's interests, people stop playing, that's a given for every single game. With the advent of some many bs things that could've and should've been given as updates being released onto the c-store these days, it does make people think twice that whether you can just play this game for $15 a month or is there going to be a lot greater cause in order to actually have a complete experience. The worth of the game isn't when you add up all the missing peices that are in the c-store, it's the base product itself. You can't claim to have a robust costumization options when 1/2 of those options are locked in the c-store nor an comphrehensive game when 1/2 the races are in the same position. Offering exclusives are fine and all but they're meant to be exclusives and not 1/2 of your gameplay experience.
really? how would you know that? what we know is the STO team has limited staff on the pay roll... do you really believe they have spare dev, graphic designer, FX guy, programmers etc just working on filling up the C STORES? at best the C store team is composed of a few members of each team and they meet up once in a while to discuss which new items it would be good to add...
a proof would be Capt logan...who worked on the nebula/excelsior as well as some free in game contents...
and i would not be surprised the staff who worked on both in game bridges and sold in the C stores are the same persons...
I don t believe a second that the C store items would not be here if there was no revenue from it...why would they add something free in game when they can sell it as they know people want them.
they just pull away some people from the various core teams to work on C store items or just to fill in their work loads when the core job is done or delayed... i wonder why...:rolleyes:
this remind me one of my good friend who always when talking about his business says
"no problem WE can do that in no time" while he s running a one man motorcycle shop... it s all about appearance...
if you have some sense of humour you might enjoy this
The developers have been stressing that the C-store items are funded by the C-store alone and that if there was no C-store, the content would not be there. See Zinc's interview. Thinking that they're seperate teams is conjecture admittedly, but a logical conclusion. All C-store critisicm has been funneled into the C-store section of the forums for the C-store team to look at, mentioned many times by the various GMs. dStahl, the executive producer, has no control over the prices of the items put on the C-store, nor can he decide to add the ability to obtain the C-store items in-game arbitrarily. He stated that he had to push for it. This all says to me that the C-store team is a seperate team with it's own decision making process and developers.
You say CapnLogan worked on the Nebula and Excelsior. Where is this stated? The impression I got is that he was working on the other ships, he did not state that he was working on these. The Excelsior is, especially missing his touch. There are niggling details that do not seem absolutely right, which would not happen had CapnLogan designed the ship. Perhaps he had some input into the ship design but I doubt he was actually working on it.
We're getting lots of free stuff. Don't tell me a Galaxy w/ saucer sep, an Intrepid w/ ablative armor, a Defiant w/ cloak would not make tons of money were they added to the C-store? People would complain but people would still buy, yet we're getting all those as a free update. People were clamouring for ship interiors for ages and now they're coming out. Are they making us buy every deck? Or each piece of furniture to decorate our ready room?
They could've released the Klingon PvE and the diplomacy mechanic as Season 2 with all the other sundry bits added on as C-store purchases should they choose and if the two teams were really one, dividing content as they saw fit. Instead we're getting lots and lots of free stuff, with the option to buy a couple more. Why are we complaining?
The developers have been stressing that the C-store items are funded by the C-store alone and that if there was no C-store, the content would not be there. See Zinc's interview.
Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon..."
Seriously, that argument is getting more tired by the day and no one is buying it. It is quite frankly BS. And put into proper perspective, if the content is not there, then soon there is no game. That's not an issue of whether we have paid enough, but whether that money is being spent wisely. Thinking that one has GOT TO be a slave to the cash shop to expect good content is silly, stupid and smacks of arrogance.
North Korea stressed for years that it had no intention of building a nuclear weapon either. Did you buy into that as well?
Cryptic is now having to face the fact that the content that people have allready paid for is still not there. and that we don't feel it is proper to charge us for it in the C-Store.
Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon..."
Seriously, that argument is getting more tired by the day and no one is buying it. It is quite frankly BS. And put into proper perspective, if the content is not there, then soon there is no game. That's not an issue of whether we have paid enough, but whether that money is being spent wisely. Thinking that one has GOT TO be a slave to the cash shop to expect good content is silly, stupid and smacks of arrogance.
North Korea stressed for years that it had no intention of building a nuclear weapon either. Did you buy into that as well?
Cryptic is now having to face the fact that the content that people have allready paid for is still not there. and that we don't feel it is proper to charge us for it in the C-Store.
That's the point. The content is there or is being put in. We got that when we bought the game and we're getting the content our subscriptions paid for in the Season updates. We get plenty of that. What they're offering, not asking us or making us pay for, is a couple of extra bits that an additional team have taken the time to make. It isn't going to affect your game if you don't buy it but if you want it, it's there for you. The game is stil the game. We're still playing the whole game. There's no difference if you were to do it from a Nebula or a Galaxy.
The problem here is that people seem to think that when they pay once for something they're entitled to everything without stopping to consider the other party or any of the other factors. I'm not saying we haven't paid, but I'm not the one saying that we haven't got anything from them either. We've got it and we're still getting it, paying as we would normally. These are extras. The sports rims and spoilers on a car. Is it less of a car if these accoutrements were not there? It makes for a flashier car yes, but does it actually do anything? Do you demand that the dealers add them in for free when you buy a basic car model?
One does NOT have to be a slave to the Cash Shop.That is the choice you have. The choice your money affords you. Don't buy it if you don't want to pay for it or can't afford it. That is perfectly alright I'm sure. It's an offer, not a mandate. If they don't get the numbers they want that will pay for it, they may think of something else, but personally, I would tend to reward the effort they've taken in producing what I want by buying it. That does not mean to say that I'm a slave to the Cash Shop. I don't blindly buy everything that's on the shop. I buy what is there that I would like and if I don't like it, I don't buy it. I don't have to have it to make my STO experience better.
The Nebula and Excelsior may have been shown many times on screen. One can argue that they're part of Star Trek, but are they essential? Do you say that the game will not be Star Trek if they were not in, same as people would say about the Galaxy or the Intrepid? If this were so, why did you buy the game, knowing that the Excelsior and Nebula were not in it initially? There were no promises to add them in somewhere down the line. I was looking forward to the Nebula. No one said anything about them when they did not show up, so I resigned myself to not having it in. Now, out of the blue, it shows up because people are willing to pay for it. And that's fine to me. Better than not having it at all, or waiting until Season 20 before it gets added as a low priority update that would probably look worse than it does now.
That's the point. The content is there or is being put in. We got that when we bought the game and we're getting the content our subscriptions paid for in the Season updates. We get plenty of that. What they're offering, not asking us or making us pay for, is a couple of extra bits that an additional team have taken the time to make. It isn't going to affect your game if you don't buy it but if you want it, it's there for you. The game is stil the game. We're still playing the whole game. There's no difference if you were to do it from a Nebula or a Galaxy.
The problem here is that people seem to think that when they pay once for something they're entitled to everything without stopping to consider the other party or any of the other factors. I'm not saying we haven't paid, but I'm not the one saying that we haven't got anything from them either. We've got it and we're still getting it, paying as we would normally. These are extras. The sports rims and spoilers on a car. Is it less of a car if these accoutrements were not there? It makes for a flashier car yes, but does it actually do anything? Do you demand that the dealers add them in for free when you buy a basic car model?
The Nebula and Excelsior may have been shown many times on screen. One can argue that they're part of Star Trek, but are they essential? Do you say that the game will not be Star Trek if they were not in, same as people would say about the Galaxy or the Intrepid? If this were so, why did you buy the game, knowing that the Excelsior and Nebula were not in it initially? There were no promises to add them in somewhere down the line. I was looking forward to the Nebula. No one said anything about them when they did not show up, so I resigned myself to not having it in. Now, out of the blue, it shows up because people are willing to pay for it. And that's fine to me. Better than not having it at all, or waiting until Season 20 before it gets added as a low priority update that would probably look worse than it does now.
Without resorting to writng a small novel, I will say this sir:
You present a compelling argument right there and I applaud you for it. It however does not adjust my opinion on the matter. The transactions that I have had for years as a customer of MMO developers have leed me to a conclusion totally opposite of your point. While you make your point well, I sadly still do not see the value proposition being in my favor in this regard, therefore it endangers my ability to continue to do business with them. I however don't want that to happen, so I have chosen this venue to express my dis-satisfaction to management and see if they are willing to relent, repent and prove that they are willing to give value. I am one who is not ready to resign myself to having paid for what I feel is an incomplete game. If you are happy with the current situation, them I am happy that they are satisfying someone. For this I am pleased. However, I would think that you would find it to even be in your best interest to continue to have more happy customers continuing to grow the community and make it thrive rather than go somewhere else.
That said, I have to respectfully disagree with you sir.
I just don't really buy the argument that the C Store gives people a significant advantage over other players. Some ships have been added for free (no one seems to remember the K'Tanco battle cruiser given for free to Klingons, to say nothing of the three Tier 5 retrofits that will be added for Federation Vice Admirals) -- there are only two (2) ships at present that can be bought on the C Store: the TOS Constitution-class and the Galaxy-X. The former is a Tier 1 ship and no one would likely use it after the first week or two of gameplay except for aesthetics. The latter is *also available for free* if you take part in the Referral Program.
As for the races, there's Ferengi, Klingon, Tellarite, Pakled, Caitian, Rigelian, Joined Trill, and Liberated Borg that have been added (the latter two for Klingon players as well). However, none of these are necessary as there are several choices. Federation has 9 (Human, Vulcan, Bajoran, Bolian, Benzite, Betazoid, Andorian, Saurian, alien) and Klingons have 6 (Klingon, Orion, Gorn, Nausicaan, Lethean, alien) at *no cost* to you, the subscriber.
Most of the C Store are bridges, emotes, costumes (Wrath of Khan is free too), and ship costumes -- all of which are just cosmetic. In fact, of the 44 items listed on the C Store page, 57% fall into these categories (playable races are another 20%).
All that leaves are pets (the targ is cosmetic, the Rivera tribble is admitedly useful) and services. The retrain token can also be obtained in-game, leaving only captain rename, character slots, BOff slots, and ship slots as something that costs money. These are things that could be useful, but are definitely not required.
In summary, while I think the C Store runs a bit expensive, the sense that it gives players with money any substantial advantage is not substantiated.
I find it funny that STO has more items in it's C-Store (44) than Champions does (36), even though Champions launched about 6 months before STO did.
12 of the 36 items in Champ's store are pets, while 20 of the remaining 24 items are costumes or costume pieces. That leaves 4 items (Rename, Retcon (Respec), Character slots, and Costume slots) that aren't costumes or cosmetic, and the Retcon is the only item that has an actual game play effect on the game.
So, about 97.2% of Champion's C-Store is 'fluff,' while STO's is considerably lower.
(Also, PhyrexianHero, the Liberated Borg in the C-Store are not for player races; they are the pre-order Borg Officers.)
Comments
For one you are comparing a game like STO that announced it was in developement in the Summer of 2008 after Perpetual dropped the ball. By Feb 2009 you had a release date. That is amazing no matter how you look at it.
Next, you are comparing a game like WOW (which is a step backwards in MMO's, anti Sandbox and it has made Instancing famous) that is another rant for another day; to STO. How does it make sense to compare a game like WOW that has 6 years of expansions and patches behind it to a game that came out last Feb?
The next thing is the Cryptic store is a great idea. For the last decade in all MMO's people have sold characters, gear, and gold online on sites like Ebay. So what Cryptic has done is taken that concept and put it in game calling it the "C-Store". The C-Store also gives the more casual players the ability to actually buy things they want. The only people who are mad at the C-Store are the kids who can play all day and all night.
Also why are you complaining about a $15 game when there are tons of people out there who will spend $6-$8 bucks on a pack of cigarettes, $6-$20 on fast food, $30 for paperview events, $400 on an Iphone, $15 on a buffet, and the list goes on and on, but you expect to play a game online for an unlimited time for free? If you are crying about paying for an online game, maybe you should't be playing an online game.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
Easy way to please them... dont put new ships in the Cstore and make ships AND content for the Klingons. If they cant do what we're paying them to do and they need the funds from the Cstore just to make the content that should have been in there to start with, I HAVE to ask why we're still paying these guys.
I cant really think of another service that Id be willing to pay someone for with this kind of incompetence.
Are you honestly trying to say that the game companies becoming goldseller/buyers is a GOOD THING?!
My point being is that it's quite balanced. Some for you, some for me and some for Cryptic and even then, no one is forced to buy anything additional for Cryptic. Still, there's no pleasing everyone. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Balance and Klingon dont go together in the same sentance around here
There is that. That's why I said it illustrates the complexities of things, where everyone has their own point of view and it's hard for lots of people to agree.
Yes, but I doubt theres anyone that agrees that the Klingons dont need major help lol
Theres a unifying point for the commmunity
Here is how:
- It was stated if it is found in the C-Store then it would be available in-game. Outside of the pre-order items and the Gal-X, I have yet to find a token letting me unlock Tellerites.
- It is by far really lopsided on development that is C-Store vs Free.
- When it was first made, it was stated items would be cosmetic only. Now items are game changing and introduced via the C-Store.
- Tied to the above statement, the C-Store was not supposed to give an advantage to those that can afford to pay money vs those that can't. Gal-X -> Advantage & Connie -> Advantage.
I am sure people can quote article after article to back this.
I just think Cryptic needs a careful review on what is offered via the C-Store and what is free.
Blakinik
DISCLAIMER - I fall under the category of those can afford to pay more. However, there is no mechanism currently that would allow for a normal subscriber to convert and acquire C-Store points without the outlay of additional cash revenue. As such, it does invoke a pay to play mentality that I have hated on past games I have played.
That....is a very valid point.
we have been paying $15 a month for quite some time now. Development costs inflate...but subs really haven't, hence I see your point in the rationalization of micro transactions. And I agree totally.
very interesting.
WOW sells a mount in micro-transaction that scales with your riding skill. Not only can you use it on land but you can use it to fly as well. With the mount you can access areas you wouldn't normally be able to by passing over high level mobs.
I hope you ain't in sales, or you're gonna go hungry...
Oddly enough, I am in retail. And no... I don't go hungry
I would have to add here that the current pricing structure is based upon what the market will bear. Just like any other product or service. The current situation with the C-Store is an attempt by a company to try and get around what the market wishes to pay for a particular product/service and see if additional revenue can be gained. The best example I can give atm would be how most major airrlines are adding all the extra fee's onto a ticket price. In both cases however, you are seeing the consumer rebel against this type of behavior and pull back with their wallets.
The collapse of the housing market several years ago (which put me out of a job), and the current recession have provided a really interesteing look into how the business/consumer relationship works. Many companies held to the belief that after the initial bust, things would return to normal. Everyone in business expected that once things blew over, they would just go back to collecting the same amount of money from everyone.
Well, welcome to the new world kids. The current eceonmic situation does not allow for the usual +10% over last year/quarter/month revenue model with any expectation of continually raising prices or finding alternate revenue streams to get people to spend their money. How many companies have went out of business over the last three years based on the fact that sales were not what the budgeting department expected them to be? Some companies learned to operate within the realm of their customers buying concerns, some did not and are now gone.
While I agree that businesses are in business to make money, they are only going to be as succsessful as the supply vs. demand market relationship allows them to be. I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to change up the current pricing model of mmo's. That would probably be based on the fact that Blizzard has set a pricing, content, playability and player base model that has slowly become the standard. Just because you have a flashy license to base a game off of and put it on a mid range engine does not give you a real good platform to start thinking that your product is premium. It's a good way to be a flash in the pan and then fade to nothing. At the end of the day, that's what all the so called "whining" is about. No one here wants to:
a) Be nickel and dimed to death
b) See the game go the way of Tabula Rasa
I know all the fanboi's (that are obvioulsly bigger than me, and my GEEK is strong!) are going to say to just shut up and move on. Well, no. I don't have to, I don't need to and I don't want to. I am participating in an experiment of market forces in action, I'm enjoying it and I hope to eventually see a quantitative resolution to it. For those of you that don't like it, please go take your frustrations out on your kids! That's what they are there for! Besides that, forum PvP does not have a C-Store related cost so it is sub based, therefore I am getting my money's worth!
<snicker> mutual relationship....
Didn't realize there was a "wrong section" of your post, I just quoted what you said...
when you do your "re-edit" go ahead and remove all the wrong sections so we know what you actually want to tell us...
As for the C-store, to start with it was mentioned that it was cosmetics only, and upon release given the scarcity of content 2 races were already on the C-store (Plus the fact that racial attributes are hardly cosmetic unless you place them as an option for aliens). Now we've got actual ships in there not just costumes as well as stuff like bridge officer slots which we normally receive 2 of every rank cept at captain and apparently vice admiral and probably beyond just so they can sell more of those. I suppose it really comes down with would you rather milk an one time dollar here and dollar there every now and then or would you rather keep on receiving a $15 monthly subscription. Cause frankly new content keeps people playing, however most people aren't going to be willing to pay extra for additional content when they're already paying $15 a month and may just decide to find other places to spend it.
Does a C-store bring additional revenue sure. Does having a C-store in a p2p game makes some people quit sure. Does insufficient content make people lose interest sure. Does all this justify still keeping the C-store, well that's not really my place to say nor do I have sufficent data. All I can say is that monthly fees are a decently significant investment, specially over the years. Course unlike cellphones, we're not bound by contract and can quit should we feel like we're not getting our money's worth, or at the very least cut our losses should projected expenses be greater than they're worth.
really? how would you know that? what we know is the STO team has limited staff on the pay roll... do you really believe they have spare dev, graphic designer, FX guy, programmers etc just working on filling up the C STORES? at best the C store team is composed of a few members of each team and they meet up once in a while to discuss which new items it would be good to add...
a proof would be Capt logan...who worked on the nebula/excelsior as well as some free in game contents...
and i would not be surprised the staff who worked on both in game bridges and sold in the C stores are the same persons...
I don t believe a second that the C store items would not be here if there was no revenue from it...why would they add something free in game when they can sell it as they know people want them.
they just pull away some people from the various core teams to work on C store items or just to fill in their work loads when the core job is done or delayed... i wonder why...:rolleyes:
this remind me one of my good friend who always when talking about his business says
"no problem WE can do that in no time" while he s running a one man motorcycle shop... it s all about appearance...
if you have some sense of humour you might enjoy this
funny USS STO parody
The mount is really no different than any other mount you can purchase in-game. All flying mounts in the game allow you to pass over high-level mobs and other content, and they all also work on the ground.
I also don't think the C-Store would have such a poor reputation if Cryptic threw us a bone once and a while. Sure, we can buy new bridges... but how about adding a couple new ones to the core game, for everyone, once in a while? They don't have to be the ones already on the C-Store... but we've had the same selection of Bridges since launch, and with the new Interiors coming on line, I think this is more of an issue now. All the new bridges have been C-Store only, and there are plenty of Bridge packs already.
I also like how moving this thread to the C-Store forum completely crippled how many replies it's gotten.
As I said before. The GMs would not lock the post, simply try to move it. Regardless, I saved my rant into a wordpad document for when I'd like to re-begin my arguement. Also, to the Dev/GM who moved my thread. What is your response? I'm quite curious.
Surely then, they couldn't let such a long and developed discussion such as this couldn't go without response! Am I correct in this assumption?
It depends on how many threads can be deleted and how many of us aren't here in the morning.
Not quite true. Blizzard is pretty money hungry.
The reason their in-game store doesn't offer items the same way Cryptic's does, is Blizzard's game is far too entrenched and in business with third party sellers. So they can't undercut the one thing that keeps their sub numbers so high.
Cryptic actively campaigns against third party sellers. Part of their motivation is ... The C-Store.
Ni Hao! U Buy Gold Yes? ... That's why Blizzard isn't offering you items that have an in-game impact. Or else they severly undercut those 10s of millions of subscribers they tout so loudly in their press releases.
:P
you forgot about all the vaniity items in WoW that can only be achived by buying mass amounts of there card and/or miniature game. (also look up the price of some of these things and ebay)
See Blizzard has been nickle and diming people for a while. Also if the WoW card game didn't exsist those items most likely wouldn't have either, and if you don't want any of the card items just don't buy the cards, just like the c-store you don't want the items, don't buy them.
(And Wow's card game has been going on for atleast 3 years if not more.)
A [Tabard of Flame].
A [Hippogryph Hatchling], an in-game companion.
A [Riding Turtle], with normal run speed.
A [Picnic Basket], a usable item that sets up an umbrella and grill.
A gorilla, [Bananas], an in-game companion.
A fortune Telling [Imp in a Ball].
A [Goblin Gumbo Kettle].
A [Fishing Chair].
A [Spectral Tiger] mount (also available as an epic mount)
A [Robotic Homing Chicken], an in-game companion.
A [Paper Flying Machine Kit], a usable item similar to the [Heavy Leather Ball]
A [Dragon Kite] (Acts as a non-combat pet).
[Papa Hummel's Old-Fashioned Pet Biscuit], a consumable that increases the size of small pets.
A [Goblin Weather Machine - Prototype 01-B], a usable item that creates weather effects over the player.
The [X-51 Nether-Rocket], a flying mount (upgradable to the [X-51 Nether-Rocket X-TREME] when Riding skill reaches 300).
The [Path of Illidan], a consumable that provides a flame effect at a players feet.
A [D.I.S.C.O.], A disco ball that makes players near it dance and plays music.
A [Soul-Trader Beacon], a companion and seller.
The [Party G.R.E.N.A.D.E.], an item that causes those in range to dance with streamers and confetti for one minute.
A [The Flag of Ownership], a flag which impales downed enemy players or creatures. Also emotes "X has placed the flag of ownership in Ys corpse.
A [Big Battle Bear], a black bear mount similar to the Amani War Bear, without the troll-ish decorations and without bear goggles.
The [Sandbox Tiger], an item that places a rideable spectral tiger on a spring that can be ridden by any player
The [Epic Purple Shirt], this item is a purple shirt that will surely make you the Center of Attention (being the name of the card, Note: item name may be incorrect)
The [Foam Sword Rack], allows the player to place a foam sword rack on the ground, from which players can draw foam swords and battle each other
The [Path of Cenarius], a consumable that provides a flower effect at a players effect.
An [Ogre Pinata], A breakable Ogre head-shaped pinata that when killed, drops bubble gum.
The [Magic Rooster Egg], A giant rooster mount.
an ogre trinket
a firework trinket
and a shload of tabards
You make some good points. And those two games you name will always be the big brother and sister of STO. STO will always be behind those two, and as such it is like comparing apples to oranges, or mandarins or...well..you get the point.
When WoW released, it was garbage, it has come a long way and is getting a huge revamp in their next expansion. So, just wait. STO will one day be able to fill their own boots quite well I think. Cryptic seems to listen to us enough, and voice their awareness of things we don't like and things we want and do like. So, perhaps they will improve the C-Store in a way to our liking that will also meet their business model.
Actually you don't cite Eve for the same reason as Wow. Cause was Eve a pos when it first came out sure. Did it get better over the years of course. Did they ever charge you anything asides from the monthly fee for improvements/updates much less expansions, no. That is where it clearly diverges from Sto though most mmos for that matter. Point at hand is that the C-store's essentially charging you for content on top of the standard fee that pretty much every single MMO with a p2p scheme offers for free.
All really comes down to why people play mmos, mainly for a persistent changing online experience. When you no longer have sufficient content to keep people's interests, people stop playing, that's a given for every single game. With the advent of some many bs things that could've and should've been given as updates being released onto the c-store these days, it does make people think twice that whether you can just play this game for $15 a month or is there going to be a lot greater cause in order to actually have a complete experience. The worth of the game isn't when you add up all the missing peices that are in the c-store, it's the base product itself. You can't claim to have a robust costumization options when 1/2 of those options are locked in the c-store nor an comphrehensive game when 1/2 the races are in the same position. Offering exclusives are fine and all but they're meant to be exclusives and not 1/2 of your gameplay experience.
The developers have been stressing that the C-store items are funded by the C-store alone and that if there was no C-store, the content would not be there. See Zinc's interview. Thinking that they're seperate teams is conjecture admittedly, but a logical conclusion. All C-store critisicm has been funneled into the C-store section of the forums for the C-store team to look at, mentioned many times by the various GMs. dStahl, the executive producer, has no control over the prices of the items put on the C-store, nor can he decide to add the ability to obtain the C-store items in-game arbitrarily. He stated that he had to push for it. This all says to me that the C-store team is a seperate team with it's own decision making process and developers.
You say CapnLogan worked on the Nebula and Excelsior. Where is this stated? The impression I got is that he was working on the other ships, he did not state that he was working on these. The Excelsior is, especially missing his touch. There are niggling details that do not seem absolutely right, which would not happen had CapnLogan designed the ship. Perhaps he had some input into the ship design but I doubt he was actually working on it.
We're getting lots of free stuff. Don't tell me a Galaxy w/ saucer sep, an Intrepid w/ ablative armor, a Defiant w/ cloak would not make tons of money were they added to the C-store? People would complain but people would still buy, yet we're getting all those as a free update. People were clamouring for ship interiors for ages and now they're coming out. Are they making us buy every deck? Or each piece of furniture to decorate our ready room?
They could've released the Klingon PvE and the diplomacy mechanic as Season 2 with all the other sundry bits added on as C-store purchases should they choose and if the two teams were really one, dividing content as they saw fit. Instead we're getting lots and lots of free stuff, with the option to buy a couple more. Why are we complaining?
Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon..."
Seriously, that argument is getting more tired by the day and no one is buying it. It is quite frankly BS. And put into proper perspective, if the content is not there, then soon there is no game. That's not an issue of whether we have paid enough, but whether that money is being spent wisely. Thinking that one has GOT TO be a slave to the cash shop to expect good content is silly, stupid and smacks of arrogance.
North Korea stressed for years that it had no intention of building a nuclear weapon either. Did you buy into that as well?
Cryptic is now having to face the fact that the content that people have allready paid for is still not there. and that we don't feel it is proper to charge us for it in the C-Store.
That's the point. The content is there or is being put in. We got that when we bought the game and we're getting the content our subscriptions paid for in the Season updates. We get plenty of that. What they're offering, not asking us or making us pay for, is a couple of extra bits that an additional team have taken the time to make. It isn't going to affect your game if you don't buy it but if you want it, it's there for you. The game is stil the game. We're still playing the whole game. There's no difference if you were to do it from a Nebula or a Galaxy.
The problem here is that people seem to think that when they pay once for something they're entitled to everything without stopping to consider the other party or any of the other factors. I'm not saying we haven't paid, but I'm not the one saying that we haven't got anything from them either. We've got it and we're still getting it, paying as we would normally. These are extras. The sports rims and spoilers on a car. Is it less of a car if these accoutrements were not there? It makes for a flashier car yes, but does it actually do anything? Do you demand that the dealers add them in for free when you buy a basic car model?
One does NOT have to be a slave to the Cash Shop.That is the choice you have. The choice your money affords you. Don't buy it if you don't want to pay for it or can't afford it. That is perfectly alright I'm sure. It's an offer, not a mandate. If they don't get the numbers they want that will pay for it, they may think of something else, but personally, I would tend to reward the effort they've taken in producing what I want by buying it. That does not mean to say that I'm a slave to the Cash Shop. I don't blindly buy everything that's on the shop. I buy what is there that I would like and if I don't like it, I don't buy it. I don't have to have it to make my STO experience better.
The Nebula and Excelsior may have been shown many times on screen. One can argue that they're part of Star Trek, but are they essential? Do you say that the game will not be Star Trek if they were not in, same as people would say about the Galaxy or the Intrepid? If this were so, why did you buy the game, knowing that the Excelsior and Nebula were not in it initially? There were no promises to add them in somewhere down the line. I was looking forward to the Nebula. No one said anything about them when they did not show up, so I resigned myself to not having it in. Now, out of the blue, it shows up because people are willing to pay for it. And that's fine to me. Better than not having it at all, or waiting until Season 20 before it gets added as a low priority update that would probably look worse than it does now.
Without resorting to writng a small novel, I will say this sir:
You present a compelling argument right there and I applaud you for it. It however does not adjust my opinion on the matter. The transactions that I have had for years as a customer of MMO developers have leed me to a conclusion totally opposite of your point. While you make your point well, I sadly still do not see the value proposition being in my favor in this regard, therefore it endangers my ability to continue to do business with them. I however don't want that to happen, so I have chosen this venue to express my dis-satisfaction to management and see if they are willing to relent, repent and prove that they are willing to give value. I am one who is not ready to resign myself to having paid for what I feel is an incomplete game. If you are happy with the current situation, them I am happy that they are satisfying someone. For this I am pleased. However, I would think that you would find it to even be in your best interest to continue to have more happy customers continuing to grow the community and make it thrive rather than go somewhere else.
That said, I have to respectfully disagree with you sir.
As for the races, there's Ferengi, Klingon, Tellarite, Pakled, Caitian, Rigelian, Joined Trill, and Liberated Borg that have been added (the latter two for Klingon players as well). However, none of these are necessary as there are several choices. Federation has 9 (Human, Vulcan, Bajoran, Bolian, Benzite, Betazoid, Andorian, Saurian, alien) and Klingons have 6 (Klingon, Orion, Gorn, Nausicaan, Lethean, alien) at *no cost* to you, the subscriber.
Most of the C Store are bridges, emotes, costumes (Wrath of Khan is free too), and ship costumes -- all of which are just cosmetic. In fact, of the 44 items listed on the C Store page, 57% fall into these categories (playable races are another 20%).
All that leaves are pets (the targ is cosmetic, the Rivera tribble is admitedly useful) and services. The retrain token can also be obtained in-game, leaving only captain rename, character slots, BOff slots, and ship slots as something that costs money. These are things that could be useful, but are definitely not required.
In summary, while I think the C Store runs a bit expensive, the sense that it gives players with money any substantial advantage is not substantiated.
12 of the 36 items in Champ's store are pets, while 20 of the remaining 24 items are costumes or costume pieces. That leaves 4 items (Rename, Retcon (Respec), Character slots, and Costume slots) that aren't costumes or cosmetic, and the Retcon is the only item that has an actual game play effect on the game.
So, about 97.2% of Champion's C-Store is 'fluff,' while STO's is considerably lower.
(Also, PhyrexianHero, the Liberated Borg in the C-Store are not for player races; they are the pre-order Borg Officers.)