As fanboys like to point out C-store supports the game. It makes me wonder, Why are we paying subscription fees again? You'd think, you know Subscriptions where supporting the game.
No Im afraid C-store stuff is just greed, which is easy to sell when you have people so blindly support it whom also seem to forget most of us all pay Subscription fees or in some cases a few hundred dollars for a Lifetime.
TO play devils advocate here. the 15 dollars a month was used about 10 years ago, most items have increased in price over 10 years, but not the subscription fee of MMOs. So someone paying 15 dollars 10 years ago is getting more out of their money then then us today paying 15 dollars a month. that is part of the reason for a MT store is to help with that lost of income. the other option would to be raise the sub up to 17 or 18 dollars, but no one is going to do that because every MMO is trying to compete with each other. if one of them raises the price then the competitor has an advantage over them.
Im quite happy to buy both these ships. We cant have everything for free and id rather make an investment in the game if its going to keep it alive that lil bit longer or is going to get us that extra bit of content that we want
What exactly do we get for free? As much as people like to think the monthly fee doesn't cover a lot it covers more than enough for what the game has available and then some. Monthly fees were originally to pay for the upkeep of servers, other overheads AND continued development but with hardware prices dropping it's only natural for that money to not go as far. Oh wait....
The Galaxy X was ... is ... a huge cost if you get it via C-Points for what it is and now here comes the two most requested ships (as shown by the Ships Poll at least) and here we go again. It sickens me to think the poll was purposely put up with the idea behind it of, "hey, let's see what they want and then.... THEN ... make them pay for it via C-Store!" because, as much as they're in this to make money like any business, treating your customers like cash cows and thinking they won't notice obvious cash grabs like this for what they are is insulting and very short-sighted.
Seeing that Dstahl is trying to get another method for us to acquire these ships shows me that at least he understands how it is coming across.
TO play devils advocate here. the 15 dollars a month was used about 10 years ago, most items have increased in price over 10 years, but not the subscription fee of MMOs. So someone paying 15 dollars 10 years ago is getting more out of their money then then us today paying 15 dollars a month. that is part of the reason for a MT store is to help with that lost of income. the other option would to be raise the sub up to 17 or 18 dollars, but no one is going to do that because every MMO is trying to compete with each other. if one of them raises the price then the competitor has an advantage over them.
actually if wow raised its pricing all other mmos would to as WOW is the standard that every stupid MONEY GRUBBING FINACIERS forces game development houses to try and copy.
With the economy the way it is? If that's your excuse then you should be elated your helping the economy, since every dollar spent allows the Dev's to keep their jobs. Furthermore I stated that subscription is waning big time, thus, paying for C-Store items is REALLY keeping this game afloat more than you think. There's even talk to make this game Free To Play by Stahl. The subscription thing isn't working out as hard core as the Dev's would like.
And as far as the poll is concerned, BIG FLIPPING DEAL! You should have known by now that every new fluff content would be put into the C-Store, this shouldn't be a big surprise or shocker to you and if it is... I don't want to offend, so don't take this the wrong way, but it's a little gullible to expect it to be free.
I'm not going to debate economics with you, but I will say that we have different philosophies on what 'helping the economy' really means. Second, can you point to where you're getting those non-numbers from? You know, those subscription numbers that are "waning big time"?
I don't want to offend, so don't take this the wrong way, but it's kinda funny to forget that playing the game isn't free.
What i find unacceptable is how nearly ALL new ships end up on the C-Store.
Oh sure you might argue the Klingon ships were not, but that does not count since they were already way under-developed ship wise and s till are.
Even the three new fed ships were getting now are not new ships, its still the Intrepid, Galaxy and Defiant, just different specs.
actually if wow raised its pricing all other mmos would to as WOW is the standard that every stupid MONEY GRUBBING FINACIERS forces game development houses to try and copy.
agreed if they raised it other people would also, but here is the kicker, WOW has a MT store, and now everyone else is starting to do to that. so instead of raising the price they are supplementing their income through MTs.
What exactly do we get for free? As much as people like to think the monthly fee doesn't cover a lot it covers more than enough for what the game has available and then some. Monthly fees were originally to pay for the upkeep of servers, other overheads AND continued development but with hardware prices dropping it's only natural for that money to not go as far. Oh wait....
The Galaxy X was ... is ... a huge cost if you get it via C-Points for what it is and now here comes the two most requested ships (as shown by the Ships Poll at least) and here we go again. It sickens me to think the poll was purposely put up with the idea behind it of, "hey, let's see what they want and then.... THEN ... make them pay for it via C-Store!" because, as much as they're in this to make money like any business, treating your customers like cash cows and thinking they won't notice obvious cash grabs like this for what they are is insulting and very short-sighted.
Seeing that Dstahl is trying to get another method for us to acquire these ships shows me that at least he understands how it is coming across.
Thats what I ways thinking. We dont actually get much 'for free' except access to the game and the obligatory bug fixes. I also though they were being clever by asking us what ships we want then make us pay for it, of course sadly, alot of people dont realize when they are being taken for a ride, its pretty sad.
So is the Galaxy and very likely the Cheyenne. Besides which, according to the TNG Tech Manual, the expected lifespan for a Federation starship is 100 years (or at least it is for the Galaxy-class, though could safely presume that's true for other starship classes as well).
Let's face it, if Cryptic had stuck to just designs that were and developed appeared in the 24th century (which would be all the escorts, science vessels and cruisers at T3 and above), there'd be players asking to add the 23rd century ships. Heck, there are people that are asking for the NX class, which would be 300 years out of date, and the Enterprise-J, which isn't supposed to be designed for another century.
Im quite happy to buy both these ships. We cant have everything for free and id rather make an investment in the game if its going to keep it alive that lil bit longer or is going to get us that extra bit of content that we want
I agree with that, that is one of the Pros of adding it to the C-store. on the other hand if you tick off more people, and they leave that is less monthly income that is coming. so I say offer it two ways. pay money or work really hard in the game. that way you get most of the people happy.
added to that I would work hard for it in the game just out of pride.
I agree with two ways. One is C-Store to get money from Lifers; two is a vet reward for sub accounts based upon the amount of playing time payed for - this may help sub account population and renewal.
Some would argue we "should" have everything for free.
The Majority of MMO's don't have microtransactions.
Dude, played CoH for years and never paid for new content, powers, and so on - granted they have QoL packs with minor power boosts, but nothing like The GX and so on in the C-Store. However, CoH and a lot of other MMO's I play do not have lifetime accounts.
I get 10x the content for FREE with every freakin' update in most other MMOs. I'm sick of the C-Store.
More and more they're putting in non-vanity items.
I hear ya guy. It's the lifer program. Maybe some day they'll scrape it, or make STO F2P in a years time when they can say to lifers, you paid for about this amount of time and we're going F2P with C-Store items for bonus powers, items and so on as DDO.
TO play devils advocate here. the 15 dollars a month was used about 10 years ago, most items have increased in price over 10 years, but not the subscription fee of MMOs. So someone paying 15 dollars 10 years ago is getting more out of their money then then us today paying 15 dollars a month. that is part of the reason for a MT store is to help with that lost of income. the other option would to be raise the sub up to 17 or 18 dollars, but no one is going to do that because every MMO is trying to compete with each other. if one of them raises the price then the competitor has an advantage over them.
I don't understand your reasoning at all. Hardware prices are far lower than they were 10 years ago, the specification of servers is higher but the prices aren't. CPU performance is far better than it was before with lower power for equal or greater performance, RAM speed has gone way up the scale, storage is so cheap that home computers are coming with multiple terabytes of storage and graphics cards that are capable of producing film quality effects are available. Bandwidth has increased a lot too, I have a 20Mb connection at home whereas 10 years ago I was struggling with 56K modem and dialup internet. With all of those costing cheaper than their equivalents or roughly the same for far higher performance I don't see how you justify your statement.
agreed if they raised it other people would also, but here is the kicker, WOW has a MT store, and now everyone else is starting to do to that. so instead of raising the price they are supplementing their income through MTs.
i know thats whats so stupid about this whole thing as i said before iam okey with MT in games heck i am eaven okey with raising monthly fees cause when it comes to entertainment 50cents a day isent much considering how many hours most ppl spend a day in a mmo........
As a lifer, i'm in it for the long haul. When you look at how much i spend on xbox live and playstation 3 DLC, i have no problem supporting the series that i love the most. Thats what disposable income is for. These ain't your daddys video games...games nowadays require DLC/microtransactions/subs what haveyou. If a little money here and there is a problem for you, maybe you've chosen the wrong hobby. I want this game to be playable 3 years from now. Invest in what you love!!:D
I don't understand your reasoning at all. Hardware prices are far lower than they were 10 years ago, the specification of servers is higher but the prices aren't. CPU performance is far better than it was before with lower power for equal or greater performance, RAM speed has gone way up the scale, storage is so cheap that home computers are coming with multiple terabytes of storage and graphics cards that are capable of producing film quality effects are available. Bandwidth has increased a lot too, I have a 20Mb connection at home whereas 10 years ago I was struggling with 56K modem and dialup internet. With all of those costing cheaper than their equivalents or roughly the same for far higher performance I don't see how you justify your statement.
there is more then just hardware. you have to take in account over head. the electricity, water, price of their internet ( it's a lot faster the the normal home connection ) gas if they have it, and other items in the overhead. then you need to take in account the employee pay, from the devs down the the janitors, there is also the royalties they have to pay to atari, and CBS. there is more to the picture then just hardware.
I don't understand your reasoning at all. Hardware prices are far lower than they were 10 years ago, the specification of servers is higher but the prices aren't. CPU performance is far better than it was before with lower power for equal or greater performance, RAM speed has gone way up the scale, storage is so cheap that home computers are coming with multiple terabytes of storage and graphics cards that are capable of producing film quality effects are available. Bandwidth has increased a lot too, I have a 20Mb connection at home whereas 10 years ago I was struggling with 56K modem and dialup internet. With all of those costing cheaper than their equivalents or roughly the same for far higher performance I don't see how you justify your statement.
Inflation probably, that and higher preformance requirements outstripping the cheaper costs. I've heard this from other MMOs too that 15 a month just doesn't buy what it used to.
Oh, I'll make it clearer for you then: Some of us pay monthly subscription fees.
Soooo... dropping over $300 for subscription fees ahead of time doesn't count? I don't a free subscription card, I had to pay just like everyone else. Technically, I won't start saving cash until a little after next year, so believe you me, I'm still paying for content just like everyone else.
Besides a subscription fee and paying for the game and expansions, you shouldnt be asked to spend any real money (unless the game is free to play).
Im okey with the c store as LONG as it is for vanity items , but this putting the preorder and galaxy x and now new whole ships in there just to make a quick buck cause trekkies like me are crazy , i might be a trekkie but no outright ferengie from cryptics marketing department is gonna TRIBBLE me over like this . Boycott the store until marketing gets the drift .
actually if wow raised its pricing all other mmos would to as WOW is the standard that every stupid MONEY GRUBBING FINACIERS forces game development houses to try and copy.
Fortunately for us, you will soon be delivering a shiny new MMO for everyone to play, with monthly updates and new expansions. And because you and everyone at your company work for free, none of us will ever have to pay for the game. Maybe you could buy each player a new gaming rig every year. That would be nice.
Even though you have to pay for it, you have to realize that this helps the game in the long-term. Purchasing from the c-store allows for more content to be added to the game. I enjoy buying from the c-store, I look forward to it, and it's a situation where I can support the authors directly.
I'm fairly sure that's what your subscription is supposed to be for.
As a lifer, i'm in it for the long haul. When you look at how much i spend on xbox live and playstation 3 DLC, i have no problem supporting the series that i love the most. Thats what disposable income is for. These ain't your daddys video games...games nowadays require DLC/microtransactions/subs what haveyou. If a little money here and there is a problem for you, maybe you've chosen the wrong hobby. I want this game to be playable 3 years from now. Invest in what you love!!:D
As a lifer ..... you've got your money's worth in about 15 months so the rest of what you say really has no credence. Disposable income is for things you want to buy, yes and the statement that "These ain't your daddys video games" shows that you don't understand games and how they used to be. In the past games were sold as complete with fewer bugs because there was no way to patch easily, no widely available internet, no access to easy payment methods. All that micro-transactions have done for games is give the companies a further way to extract cash from people for something they've already bought.
A little money.... sorry, not everyone has access to lots of disposable income but that doesn't mean they should be told they've chosen the wrong hobby. Your opinions and thoughts are, frankly, insulting.
Have they said how much they will cost in cp??
if 2000 cp i wont ever buy its crazy
unless:
1: monthly sub drops by 50%
or
cost of new ship doesnt go over 1000 cp
That part of the reason for this thread. it does not seem to be set in stone yet, and even the date does not seem to be set in stone. that is why we need to let our voices be heard before it is finalized, ( and before it is to late )
personally I think it needs to be earned on the merit system, or in the C-store. I have the choice to work at my business for the money, or I can work hard in the game to get the right to earn that ship. ( it should probably take close to a month to earn it in my opinion )
Fortunately for us, you will soon be delivering a shiny new MMO for everyone to play, with monthly updates and new expansions. And because you and everyone at your company work for free, none of us will ever have to pay for the game. Maybe you could buy each player a new gaming rig every year. That would be nice.
For a sheep like you sure ill callit stupid ppl give me money for something that dont exist , i mean come on you cant see that WOW is what drives finaciers pushing games to more and more like wow ? if not all i can say is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH BAAAAHHH .
As a lifer ..... you've got your money's worth in about 15 months so the rest of what you say really has no credence. Disposable income is for things you want to buy, yes and the statement that "These ain't your daddys video games" shows that you don't understand games and how they used to be. In the past games were sold as complete with fewer bugs because there was no way to patch easily, no widely available internet, no access to easy payment methods. All that micro-transactions have done for games is give the companies a further way to extract cash from people for something they've already bought.
A little money.... sorry, not everyone has access to lots of disposable income but that doesn't mean they should be told they've chosen the wrong hobby. Your opinions and thoughts are, frankly, insulting.
I thought that it was a company's job to extract cash from the consumer in exchange for services and goods. Just because the cstore is a non subscription based way to do this doesn't mean that it's a cash grab that won't pay off for us. Especially since it's been stated that without cstore funds the items in the cstore would likely not have been made due to budget constraints.
For a sheep like you sure ill callit stupid ppl give me money for something that dont exist , i mean come on you cant see that WOW is what drives finaciers pushing games to more and more like wow ? if not all i can say is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH BAAAAHHH .
Virtual items still exist, what do you think a game is? Unless I'm missing the point of your post.
For a sheep like you sure ill callit stupid ppl give me money for something that dont exist , i mean come on you cant see that WOW is what drives finaciers pushing games to more and more like wow ? if not all i can say is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH BAAAAHHH .
All you need to make is 3 misson types go there kill 5 npcs go back get reward , go there deliver item get reward , or go there press button get reward , then reskin it every 6 months cause players want some new eyecandy to look at...
For a sheep like you sure ill callit stupid ppl give me money for something that dont exist , i mean come on you cant see that WOW is what drives finaciers pushing games to more and more like wow ? if not all i can say is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH BAAAAHHH .
You're the one that bought a lifetime subscription, mutton.
Comments
TO play devils advocate here. the 15 dollars a month was used about 10 years ago, most items have increased in price over 10 years, but not the subscription fee of MMOs. So someone paying 15 dollars 10 years ago is getting more out of their money then then us today paying 15 dollars a month. that is part of the reason for a MT store is to help with that lost of income. the other option would to be raise the sub up to 17 or 18 dollars, but no one is going to do that because every MMO is trying to compete with each other. if one of them raises the price then the competitor has an advantage over them.
What exactly do we get for free? As much as people like to think the monthly fee doesn't cover a lot it covers more than enough for what the game has available and then some. Monthly fees were originally to pay for the upkeep of servers, other overheads AND continued development but with hardware prices dropping it's only natural for that money to not go as far. Oh wait....
The Galaxy X was ... is ... a huge cost if you get it via C-Points for what it is and now here comes the two most requested ships (as shown by the Ships Poll at least) and here we go again. It sickens me to think the poll was purposely put up with the idea behind it of, "hey, let's see what they want and then.... THEN ... make them pay for it via C-Store!" because, as much as they're in this to make money like any business, treating your customers like cash cows and thinking they won't notice obvious cash grabs like this for what they are is insulting and very short-sighted.
Seeing that Dstahl is trying to get another method for us to acquire these ships shows me that at least he understands how it is coming across.
actually if wow raised its pricing all other mmos would to as WOW is the standard that every stupid MONEY GRUBBING FINACIERS forces game development houses to try and copy.
I'm not going to debate economics with you, but I will say that we have different philosophies on what 'helping the economy' really means. Second, can you point to where you're getting those non-numbers from? You know, those subscription numbers that are "waning big time"?
I don't want to offend, so don't take this the wrong way, but it's kinda funny to forget that playing the game isn't free.
20 to 30k merits = 500 Cryptic Points.
Make it 25k, split the difference. So 50 merits = 1 Cryptic Point.
40,000 Merits = 1 TOS Constitution.
100,000 Merits = 1 Galaxy X.
The Excelsior and the Nebula can fall in between that.
Oh sure you might argue the Klingon ships were not, but that does not count since they were already way under-developed ship wise and s till are.
Even the three new fed ships were getting now are not new ships, its still the Intrepid, Galaxy and Defiant, just different specs.
agreed if they raised it other people would also, but here is the kicker, WOW has a MT store, and now everyone else is starting to do to that. so instead of raising the price they are supplementing their income through MTs.
Thats what I ways thinking. We dont actually get much 'for free' except access to the game and the obligatory bug fixes. I also though they were being clever by asking us what ships we want then make us pay for it, of course sadly, alot of people dont realize when they are being taken for a ride, its pretty sad.
The Constitution and Miranda-classes are even older - at this point, their design age is probably approaching 200...
So is the Galaxy and very likely the Cheyenne. Besides which, according to the TNG Tech Manual, the expected lifespan for a Federation starship is 100 years (or at least it is for the Galaxy-class, though could safely presume that's true for other starship classes as well).
Let's face it, if Cryptic had stuck to just designs that were and developed appeared in the 24th century (which would be all the escorts, science vessels and cruisers at T3 and above), there'd be players asking to add the 23rd century ships. Heck, there are people that are asking for the NX class, which would be 300 years out of date, and the Enterprise-J, which isn't supposed to be designed for another century.
I don't understand your reasoning at all. Hardware prices are far lower than they were 10 years ago, the specification of servers is higher but the prices aren't. CPU performance is far better than it was before with lower power for equal or greater performance, RAM speed has gone way up the scale, storage is so cheap that home computers are coming with multiple terabytes of storage and graphics cards that are capable of producing film quality effects are available. Bandwidth has increased a lot too, I have a 20Mb connection at home whereas 10 years ago I was struggling with 56K modem and dialup internet. With all of those costing cheaper than their equivalents or roughly the same for far higher performance I don't see how you justify your statement.
i know thats whats so stupid about this whole thing as i said before iam okey with MT in games heck i am eaven okey with raising monthly fees cause when it comes to entertainment 50cents a day isent much considering how many hours most ppl spend a day in a mmo........
I'm glad you finally came to terms with that.
Oh, I'll make it clearer for you then: Some of us pay monthly subscription fees.
Besides a subscription fee and paying for the game and expansions, you shouldnt be asked to spend any real money (unless the game is free to play).
there is more then just hardware. you have to take in account over head. the electricity, water, price of their internet ( it's a lot faster the the normal home connection ) gas if they have it, and other items in the overhead. then you need to take in account the employee pay, from the devs down the the janitors, there is also the royalties they have to pay to atari, and CBS. there is more to the picture then just hardware.
also there is inflation, here is a website with a 10 year chart starting in 2000.
Inflation probably, that and higher preformance requirements outstripping the cheaper costs. I've heard this from other MMOs too that 15 a month just doesn't buy what it used to.
Soooo... dropping over $300 for subscription fees ahead of time doesn't count? I don't a free subscription card, I had to pay just like everyone else. Technically, I won't start saving cash until a little after next year, so believe you me, I'm still paying for content just like everyone else.
Im okey with the c store as LONG as it is for vanity items , but this putting the preorder and galaxy x and now new whole ships in there just to make a quick buck cause trekkies like me are crazy , i might be a trekkie but no outright ferengie from cryptics marketing department is gonna TRIBBLE me over like this . Boycott the store until marketing gets the drift .
if 2000 cp i wont ever buy its crazy
unless:
1: monthly sub drops by 50%
or
cost of new ship doesnt go over 1000 cp
Fortunately for us, you will soon be delivering a shiny new MMO for everyone to play, with monthly updates and new expansions. And because you and everyone at your company work for free, none of us will ever have to pay for the game. Maybe you could buy each player a new gaming rig every year. That would be nice.
I'm fairly sure that's what your subscription is supposed to be for.
As a lifer ..... you've got your money's worth in about 15 months so the rest of what you say really has no credence. Disposable income is for things you want to buy, yes and the statement that "These ain't your daddys video games" shows that you don't understand games and how they used to be. In the past games were sold as complete with fewer bugs because there was no way to patch easily, no widely available internet, no access to easy payment methods. All that micro-transactions have done for games is give the companies a further way to extract cash from people for something they've already bought.
A little money.... sorry, not everyone has access to lots of disposable income but that doesn't mean they should be told they've chosen the wrong hobby. Your opinions and thoughts are, frankly, insulting.
That part of the reason for this thread. it does not seem to be set in stone yet, and even the date does not seem to be set in stone. that is why we need to let our voices be heard before it is finalized, ( and before it is to late )
personally I think it needs to be earned on the merit system, or in the C-store. I have the choice to work at my business for the money, or I can work hard in the game to get the right to earn that ship. ( it should probably take close to a month to earn it in my opinion )
For a sheep like you sure ill callit stupid ppl give me money for something that dont exist , i mean come on you cant see that WOW is what drives finaciers pushing games to more and more like wow ? if not all i can say is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH BAAAAHHH .
I thought that it was a company's job to extract cash from the consumer in exchange for services and goods. Just because the cstore is a non subscription based way to do this doesn't mean that it's a cash grab that won't pay off for us. Especially since it's been stated that without cstore funds the items in the cstore would likely not have been made due to budget constraints.
Virtual items still exist, what do you think a game is? Unless I'm missing the point of your post.
All you need to make is 3 misson types go there kill 5 npcs go back get reward , go there deliver item get reward , or go there press button get reward , then reskin it every 6 months cause players want some new eyecandy to look at...
You're the one that bought a lifetime subscription, mutton.