Amazingly Cryptic didn't advertise these items as "exclusive until mid June when we will be offering them in the C-Store". Since apparently the fine print means that they 'could' do this... why didn't they explicitly say they were? Any guesses from the apologists?
Answer: because they wouldn't make a sale if they said they were going to be doing this.
So, given that if they advertised this action, they would have hurt themselves financially, how can people rationalize this action away as a-ok? The only intellectually honest rebuttal is that they should have just announced this originally and it wouldn't have any negative effects. I disagree with that and anything less is just excusing the behavior.
So, next game, make sure you replace 'exclusive' with '4 month early access at which time they will be available for a few dollars'. If you forget, don't worry, there will be plenty of discussion about it on the forums for the new game.
When you have to defend your position by going to extreme interpretation of words or fine print, you've already lost.
The reason why the DDE was more expensive was because you were paying for the convenience of downloading and not having to wait to get it. Atari isn't the only pub that does this. EA does it as well. So do others.
Gah... beat me to it. That's 100% correct. You paid for the convenience of not waiting for a box you ordered or having to go to a store and buy it.
Just because i'm in the minority doesn't mean what happened was right, though.
I mean, honestly, if the world worked off of the majority makes right all the time then it would be a very screwed up place.
I also bet there would have been a much larger outcry if something directly related to the majority of the subs in this game had been offered, like the Borg captain. There may be some cross-over between CO and STO, but it can't be as large as the number of STO LT subs.
The world is a screwed up place. Or did you think the "holocaust" was just a "thing"?
Just go read the news. Oil has ruined the US coast line and put people's entire livelihoods at risk. The Middle East is always alive with violence somewhere. The Romas, despite being the other heavily massacred group in the holocaust, are, unlike the Jewish people (and I mean no offense or hostility in regard to the Jewish ethnic group), still treated like garbage. At the end of the first World War, on the same day that Veteran's Day celebrates (initially and appropriately called Armistace Day), the order came down for the fighting to stop and the silence was so amazing to the soldiers on the field that many of them reported to have heard the voice of God.
Yea and i think most people do.....some dont, some do somewhat, some study it, some take what they need from it
I can go on on, Cryptic did their part, but as a business model, you know that changing the terms even though they are listed as that......they can be changed....and is an accepted loss of customer satification, legally they are covered and a decision was made to out weight the cost/benefits
Just like the place where I work, our parking lot is a gated area that requires a badge to enter and park....but a notice says that "Security is not responisble for your safety or theft of personal property"
Therefore why have security?
Thats like buying a required insurance policy that says "by signing here we can make changes to this policy at any time and without warning, and you give up your right to adjudicate against us in a court of law if there is any disputes, we will send you in writing any changes made and will take effect even if you before you recieve in writing " and the writing you receive is desguised as junk mail and not clearly communicatied"
I dont know about you, but the EULA is quite a bit for most games, most corps know not to add in the EULA by stating "we can sell your kids if you agree" and if most people read Term and Conditions then the Terms and Conditions would be more complex.....judge dont care how complex a document is, it can be expanded to 1000 pages if need be, if it impacts sales, then it wont be as long
Both sides have said that the majority of players dont use the forums so again how were we to know i get the whole eula thing but agin Some people aren't die hard gamers they dont know the ins and outs of the gaming world like cryptic lawyers do
Like I said good for you. It still doesn't change the fact that you refuse to take responsibility for your action and try to put the blame on Cryptic.
All you have done with your ranting is show people that what was important to you is elitism.
You're perfectly welcome to think whatever you like. I think cryptic screwed all the CO lifers in this instance, and as an aggrieved party I am stating how I feel. I feel a company should back up what it says. If they wanted to post the CO LTS deal again I wouldn't have the slightest objection. The fact that they used STO "unique and exclusive" items to drive sales of a $200 package then went ahead and sold that same item for $3.50 a month after they finally put them in the game is dishonest at best and fraudulent at worst.
You're perfectly welcome to think whatever you like. I think cryptic screwed all the CO lifers in this instance, and as an aggrieved party I am stating how I feel. I feel a company should back up what it says. If they wanted to post the CO LTS deal again I wouldn't have the slightest objection. The fact that they used STO "unique and exclusive" items to drive sales of a $200 package then went ahead and sold that same item for $3.50 a month after they finally put them in the game is dishonest at best and fraudulent at worst.
How much of the package were the items? Because it sounds like it was at most $3.50.
The world is a screwed up place. Or did you think the "holocaust" was just a "thing"?
Just go read the news. Oil has ruined the US coast line and put people's entire livelihoods at risk. The Middle East is always alive with violence somewhere. The Romas, despite being the other heavily massacred group in the holocaust, are, unlike the Jewish people (and I mean no offense or hostility in regard to the Jewish ethnic group), still treated like garbage. At the end of the first World War, on the same day that Veteran's Day celebrates (initially and appropriately called Armistace Day), the order came down for the fighting to stop and the silence was so amazing to the soldiers on the field that many of them reported to have heard the voice of God.
That's the world you live in.
Are...Are you seriously trying to bring the Holocaust into this as a justification or explanation for a minority portion of the forums getting jerked around in one way or another?
What you've posted is still, as I said before, not justification for what happened, setting aside the absolute absurdity of that post. Two wrongs don't make a right.
My point was that majority doesn't make right if you're TRIBBLE over a minority in the process. Especially in business terms. MMO's thrive on their reputation, or die by it. Just look at games like SWG and the Matrix Online.
I cant quote it because they recently closed the thread so i''ll have to copy/paste:
For a limited time only six-month and lifetime subscribers to Cryptic Studios' other MMO, Champions Online, will receive, among other exciting perks, guaranteed access to the Star Trek Online beta test!
"Beyond the deep discount on the subscription rates, we wanted to come up with added incentives and exclusives that, as gamers, we could get excited about," said Jack Emmert, Cryptic Studios' Chief Operating Officer. "With an early commitment to Champions Online, granting guaranteed early access to our next big game, Star Trek Online, seemed like a great way to engage Cryptics biggest fans in other projects at the studio.
Lifetime subscribers will also receive an exclusive Mirror Universe costume set for Star Trek Online.
Here are the great features our loyal customers will receive.
* Guaranteed Star Trek Online Closed Beta Access
* Exclusive Art Deco costume set, available only to lifetime subscribers.
* Retro Future costume set.
* Unique Mirror Universe outfit for Star Trek Online, available at the games release
* Exclusive in-game Foxbat action figure, available only to lifetime subscribers
* Eight additional character slots!
Six Month Discounted Subscription ($59.99 USD | $65.99 CAN | £35.99 GBP | 44.99 EUR)
* Saves $29.95 USD (33% off!) over regular monthly subscription!
* Retro Future costume set
* Access to the Star Trek Online Closed Beta, beginning later this year!
Dont miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!
Dont miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!
The fact that they used STO "unique and exclusive" items to drive sales of a $200 package then went ahead and sold that same item for $3.50 a month after they finally put them in the game is dishonest at best and fraudulent at worst.
And I'm sure that not a single person out there thought that the long term cost savings for spending $200 for a LTS to a game had nothing to do with their decision to make the purchase either... it was all the MU uniforms.
For a limited time only six-month and lifetime subscribers to Cryptic Studios' other MMO, Champions Online, will receive, among other exciting perks, guaranteed access to the Star Trek Online beta test!
"Beyond the deep discount on the subscription rates, we wanted to come up with added incentives and exclusives that, as gamers, we could get excited about," said Jack Emmert, Cryptic Studios' Chief Operating Officer. "With an early commitment to Champions Online, granting guaranteed early access to our next big game, Star Trek Online, seemed like a great way to engage Cryptics biggest fans in other projects at the studio.
Lifetime subscribers will also receive an exclusive Mirror Universe costume set for Star Trek Online.
Here are the great features our loyal customers will receive.
* Guaranteed Star Trek Online Closed Beta Access
* Exclusive Art Deco costume set, available only to lifetime subscribers.
* Retro Future costume set.
* Unique Mirror Universe outfit for Star Trek Online, available at the games release
* Exclusive in-game Foxbat action figure, available only to lifetime subscribers
* Eight additional character slots!
Six Month Discounted Subscription ($59.99 USD | $65.99 CAN | £35.99 GBP | 44.99 EUR)
* Saves $29.95 USD (33% off!) over regular monthly subscription!
* Retro Future costume set
* Access to the Star Trek Online Closed Beta, beginning later this year!
Dont miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!
Dont miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!
Amazingly Cryptic didn't advertise these items as "exclusive until mid June when we will be offering them in the C-Store". Since apparently the fine print means that they 'could' do this... why didn't they explicitly say they were? Any guesses from the apologists?
Answer: because they wouldn't make a sale if they said they were going to be doing this.
So, given that if they advertised this action, they would have hurt themselves financially, how can people rationalize this action away as a-ok? The only intellectually honest rebuttal is that they should have just announced this originally and it wouldn't have any negative effects. I disagree with that and anything less is just excusing the behavior.
So, next game, make sure you replace 'exclusive' with '4 month early access at which time they will be available for a few dollars'. If you forget, don't worry, there will be plenty of discussion about it on the forums for the new game.
When you have to defend your position by going to extreme interpretation of words or fine print, you've already lost.
They DID make this known. It wasn't that hard to find, either. People either did not bother to look, or chose to ignore it. As far as the negative response, obviously it WOULD have happened, because it did. I'm not referring to the fine print, I'm referring to the FAQ and to several Dev posts.
Are...Are you seriously trying to bring the Holocaust into this as justification for a minority portion of the forums getting jerked around in one way or another?
What you've posted is still, as I said before, not justification for what happened, setting aside the absolute absurdity of that post. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I cannot believe I just read that post.
Just because i'm in the minority doesn't mean what happened was right, though.
I mean, honestly, if the world worked off of the majority makes right all the time then it would be a very screwed up place.
If you can say ridiculous things, then so can I.
Actually, I was just trying to put things into perspective. Like the whole example of how buying an expensive tv doesn't entitle me to get upset when they release a new and better product the next month on sale for the same price. I didn't have to buy the tv in the first place.
And if I bought that tv for a thousand dollars just because it had a Star Trek MU logo on it and then it drops price the next month, who is to blame?
I haven't seen a single person produce anything that shows that Cryptic said in so many words that the MUs were exclusive. Also, I haven't seen anyone in so many words explain to me why it is smart to spend 200 dollars on an in game costume.
My point was that majority doesn't make right if you're TRIBBLE over a minority in the process. Especially in business terms. MMO's thrive on their reputation, or die by it. Just look at games like SWG and the Matrix Online.
They DID make this known. It wasn't that hard to find, either. People either did not bother to look, or chose to ignore it. As far as the negative response, obviously it WOULD have happened, because it did. I'm not referring to the fine print, I'm referring to the FAQ and to several Dev posts.
Whats the date on that FAQ? The CO offer was only available until October 1st I believe.
You're perfectly welcome to think whatever you like. I think cryptic screwed all the CO lifers in this instance, and as an aggrieved party I am stating how I feel. I feel a company should back up what it says. If they wanted to post the CO LTS deal again I wouldn't have the slightest objection. The fact that they used STO "unique and exclusive" items to drive sales of a $200 package then went ahead and sold that same item for $3.50 a month after they finally put them in the game is dishonest at best and fraudulent at worst.
I never said you don't have a right to think you got screwed. I do think you refuse to see the fact that you weren't. Stormshade has told you, others have told you. Even I have told you in the super thread.
The fact is this is done is buisness a lot. Not just in gaming or software but in other business as well. I have even seen it when an exclusive was sold separately on the same day as the offer. It is how business and marketing work. I am sorry you feel you were misled but you weren't. I am sorry you feel screwed but you weren't.
The items were not offered separately, that's what makes it a package.
Yeah, but your bill of sale did not say Item: $X Game: $Y
So for all you know, of that purchase, the Item was valued at the $0 Cryptic says it was. Now people are actually going to have to pay more than you, since it used to cost $0 and now it costs $3.50
Clearly. Cryptic took these people from their homes and family, put them on crappy ships set to sail across the ocean, and transported them to some newfound country that needs a cheap way to produce cotton.
I never said you don't have a right to think you got screwed. I do think you refuse to see the fact that you weren't. Stormshade has told you, others have told you. Even I have told you in the super thread.
The fact is this is done is buisness a lot. Not just in gaming or software but in other business as well. I have even seen it when an exclusive was sold separately on the same day as the offer. It is how business and marketing work. I am sorry you feel you were misled but you weren't. I am sorry you feel screwed but you weren't.
I can tell you the sky is green, that doesn't make it so, no matter how many people tell you it is.
Stormshade has to toe the company line. He cannot be trusted.
My point was that SWG damaged it's reputation with all parties, and most people absolutely revile it now. Most MMO's at least try to avoid ticking off a portion of their playerbase to avoid getting a "rabid anti MMO" sect going on other forums.
Clearly. Cryptic took these people from their homes and family, put them on crappy ships set to sail across the ocean, and transported them to some newfound country that needs a cheap way to produce cotton.
Do you read posts before responding I was agreeing with someone else about how it's not ok to TRIBBLE over the few for the majority
Comments
Answer: because they wouldn't make a sale if they said they were going to be doing this.
So, given that if they advertised this action, they would have hurt themselves financially, how can people rationalize this action away as a-ok? The only intellectually honest rebuttal is that they should have just announced this originally and it wouldn't have any negative effects. I disagree with that and anything less is just excusing the behavior.
So, next game, make sure you replace 'exclusive' with '4 month early access at which time they will be available for a few dollars'. If you forget, don't worry, there will be plenty of discussion about it on the forums for the new game.
When you have to defend your position by going to extreme interpretation of words or fine print, you've already lost.
Gah... beat me to it.
The world is a screwed up place. Or did you think the "holocaust" was just a "thing"?
Just go read the news. Oil has ruined the US coast line and put people's entire livelihoods at risk. The Middle East is always alive with violence somewhere. The Romas, despite being the other heavily massacred group in the holocaust, are, unlike the Jewish people (and I mean no offense or hostility in regard to the Jewish ethnic group), still treated like garbage. At the end of the first World War, on the same day that Veteran's Day celebrates (initially and appropriately called Armistace Day), the order came down for the fighting to stop and the silence was so amazing to the soldiers on the field that many of them reported to have heard the voice of God.
That's the world you live in.
That's essentially what you just did
Both sides have said that the majority of players dont use the forums so again how were we to know i get the whole eula thing but agin Some people aren't die hard gamers they dont know the ins and outs of the gaming world like cryptic lawyers do
You're perfectly welcome to think whatever you like. I think cryptic screwed all the CO lifers in this instance, and as an aggrieved party I am stating how I feel. I feel a company should back up what it says. If they wanted to post the CO LTS deal again I wouldn't have the slightest objection. The fact that they used STO "unique and exclusive" items to drive sales of a $200 package then went ahead and sold that same item for $3.50 a month after they finally put them in the game is dishonest at best and fraudulent at worst.
Frivolous Lawsuits Kill Babies
How much of the package were the items? Because it sounds like it was at most $3.50.
Are...Are you seriously trying to bring the Holocaust into this as a justification or explanation for a minority portion of the forums getting jerked around in one way or another?
What you've posted is still, as I said before, not justification for what happened, setting aside the absolute absurdity of that post. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I cannot believe I just read that post.
SWG screwed the majority not the minority.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24059&highlight=Champions+exclusive+unique
I cant quote it because they recently closed the thread so i''ll have to copy/paste:
For a limited time only six-month and lifetime subscribers to Cryptic Studios' other MMO, Champions Online, will receive, among other exciting perks, guaranteed access to the Star Trek Online beta test!
"Beyond the deep discount on the subscription rates, we wanted to come up with added incentives and exclusives that, as gamers, we could get excited about," said Jack Emmert, Cryptic Studios' Chief Operating Officer. "With an early commitment to Champions Online, granting guaranteed early access to our next big game, Star Trek Online, seemed like a great way to engage Cryptics biggest fans in other projects at the studio.
Lifetime subscribers will also receive an exclusive Mirror Universe costume set for Star Trek Online.
Here are the great features our loyal customers will receive.
Lifetime Subscription ($199.99 USD | $219.99 CAN | £119.99 GBP | 147.99 EUR)
* Guaranteed Star Trek Online Closed Beta Access
* Exclusive Art Deco costume set, available only to lifetime subscribers.
* Retro Future costume set.
* Unique Mirror Universe outfit for Star Trek Online, available at the games release
* Exclusive in-game Foxbat action figure, available only to lifetime subscribers
* Eight additional character slots!
Six Month Discounted Subscription ($59.99 USD | $65.99 CAN | £35.99 GBP | 44.99 EUR)
* Saves $29.95 USD (33% off!) over regular monthly subscription!
* Retro Future costume set
* Access to the Star Trek Online Closed Beta, beginning later this year!
Dont miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!
Dont miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!
Note the bits in red there.
And I'm sure that not a single person out there thought that the long term cost savings for spending $200 for a LTS to a game had nothing to do with their decision to make the purchase either... it was all the MU uniforms.
The items were not offered separately, that's what makes it a package.
Well I can:
But then again, I have super powers
They DID make this known. It wasn't that hard to find, either. People either did not bother to look, or chose to ignore it. As far as the negative response, obviously it WOULD have happened, because it did. I'm not referring to the fine print, I'm referring to the FAQ and to several Dev posts.
you should play CO!
If you can say ridiculous things, then so can I.
Actually, I was just trying to put things into perspective. Like the whole example of how buying an expensive tv doesn't entitle me to get upset when they release a new and better product the next month on sale for the same price. I didn't have to buy the tv in the first place.
And if I bought that tv for a thousand dollars just because it had a Star Trek MU logo on it and then it drops price the next month, who is to blame?
I haven't seen a single person produce anything that shows that Cryptic said in so many words that the MUs were exclusive. Also, I haven't seen anyone in so many words explain to me why it is smart to spend 200 dollars on an in game costume.
Agreed look at slavery
Whats the date on that FAQ? The CO offer was only available until October 1st I believe.
Well, there you go: they are in red, so, yeah.
Red means forever.
This was posted in February... a month after the pre-order FAQ was posted on the website... which said that "exclusives may go into the C-Store".
I actually have a 6 month sub
I never said you don't have a right to think you got screwed. I do think you refuse to see the fact that you weren't. Stormshade has told you, others have told you. Even I have told you in the super thread.
The fact is this is done is buisness a lot. Not just in gaming or software but in other business as well. I have even seen it when an exclusive was sold separately on the same day as the offer. It is how business and marketing work. I am sorry you feel you were misled but you weren't. I am sorry you feel screwed but you weren't.
Yeah, but your bill of sale did not say Item: $X Game: $Y
So for all you know, of that purchase, the Item was valued at the $0 Cryptic says it was. Now people are actually going to have to pay more than you, since it used to cost $0 and now it costs $3.50
Clearly. Cryptic took these people from their homes and family, put them on crappy ships set to sail across the ocean, and transported them to some newfound country that needs a cheap way to produce cotton.
February 2010? The CO offer was only available till Oct 2009.
I can tell you the sky is green, that doesn't make it so, no matter how many people tell you it is.
Stormshade has to toe the company line. He cannot be trusted.
My point was that SWG damaged it's reputation with all parties, and most people absolutely revile it now. Most MMO's at least try to avoid ticking off a portion of their playerbase to avoid getting a "rabid anti MMO" sect going on other forums.
Do you read posts before responding I was agreeing with someone else about how it's not ok to TRIBBLE over the few for the majority
I don't see where this says that these "unique" and "exclusive" items will never be able to be purchased in the C-Store at a later date.