Actually I don't feel cheated into buy a CO lifetime subscription. Its turning out to be a good game, since they gave it focus.
I am annoyed about being mislead about the MU uniforms. In hindsite you can probably guess I'm glad I took the offer, simply for CO. However at the time that wasn't the deciding factor between the two offers.
Then you DID make the right choice! So why all the annoyance about the MU uniforms? If you are liking CO, and not feeling cheated, and you feel glad that you took the offer, it's worth it. This means that the MU uniforms were an extra perk, just as they were intended. If you made the right decision, anyway, does it matter that the MU uniforms are now in the C-Store? You got it for free, and still can play CO whenever you want.
Why so I can read some guy re-editing posts and portraty things as they weren't, while people sleep. No thanks.
If I recall our discusion was about international advertising laws, not what Crytpic told us directly.
We've suggested dictionary definitions.
We could draw Venn Diagrams of the logical constructs that form this whole argument.
We could speak till we're blue in the face.
However, there was no misrepresentation. There isn't. Look at the definitions and how the word is both formally and colloquially used. Look at the context and dates associated with the events. Look at the vast array of external influences, if the interior logic of the debate evades you.
Anything further explanation from me would run the risk of sounding like I'm talking down to child (which would insult intelligences further). So, I'm going to retire from the debate.
Why so I can read some guy re-editing posts and portray things as they weren't, so he can claim the Liberated Borg should remain exclusive. No thanks.
If I recall our discusion was about international advertising laws, not what Crytpic told us directly. What we were told stands and you can't change that.
Our discussion stemmed from the issue of what was said in the chat log except you posted. You were shown how it was not an attempt to mislead you. However, apparently you refuse to believe that. You don't believe what others have told you. Fine, whatever.
You just want to be all cool and tell your friends how elite you are...
Don't lie.
I like how you read my next post explaining the holocaust remarks or even better taking your other quote out to point out how ridiculous a statement is like if (and I'm paraphrasing probably) were run by majorities then it would be a really screwed up place. Which, then I took to pointing out that it was a screwed up place. I wasn't relating Cryptic and what not to the holocaust. Use your brain for a second, I was pointing out that the world is screwed up and largely over-run by fanatical white majorities. Although, that is changing slowly, and soon the chinese will join into the fray.
Which to add to that, if the world is such a screwed up place and blah blah blah
perhaps you should take a closer look at your decisions or accept the consequences as they as opposed to looking into "the greater morality of it all"
What greater morality? We're lucky strike this side of the milky way that hasn't happened to get hit by a large enough asteroid yet. We haven't happened to encounter a truly dangerous solar flare. We haven't encountered global warming on the scale of Venus. Our species just happened to survive evolution, which if you go by Darwin's theory, is entirely random and not even based on fitness in the understanding of the word. In all reality, the human race might be dead and gone, but bacteria will survive.
So what morality?
Get over yourself. You spent too much money on an outfit as opposed to thinking about your transaction as a transaction for an LTS account and are now mad at Cryptic for interpreting the whole scenario as they set it out to be in the first place. That's not even an atrocity, that's called doing business and making money. Want to find out what an atrocity is to customer service, bank with BoA or Walkovaya.
Then you DID make the right choice! So why all the annoyance about the MU uniforms? If you are liking CO, and not feeling cheated, and you feel glad that you took the offer, it's worth it. This means that the MU uniforms were an extra perk, just as they were intended. If you made the right decision, anyway, does it matter that the MU uniforms are now in the C-Store? You got it for free, and still can play CO whenever you want.
You are missing the point. I'm not annoyed about the MU unforms per say, I'm annoyed at the fact that the CO community was lied to.
Just because I ended up liking CO and glad I took the offer, doesn't mean others are.
oh well, my exclusive perks are gone, on the bright side, atleast I can look forward to seeing the Galaxy-X in the c-store by summers end.. mid fall by the latest, if one exclusive perk is in the c-store they should all be in there before to long.. so come on cryptic cough up the galaxy-x for 800 points now and get it over with.
I remember reading all those posts about how EU law should apply even though it was shown that it wasn't. I even went back forth with that for a while but realized there was no point since it was just the same thing over and over.
Then, we have the quoting of IRC chat which was proven incorrect quite soundly. Still it is being hung on to as the central point of the argument even now.
Fact is, there is nothing there but that doesn't stop them from thinking their getting "screwed" over some electronic item that was included in a lifetime sub.
Sure there is. Do you enjoy playing Star Trek Online? Would you enjoy playing it with your friends? Then consider referring them.
If you do, the real real reward is not some in-game bonus item that we offer you. It's the time you get to spend sharing your hobby with your friend. That's why you should use the referral program, not because you want some in-game perk, but because you want to spend more time with your friend.
If any of those items ever do make it to the C-store, then you would still be able to earn them for free, rather than paying real money for them, using the referral program.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Sorry Storm, not having a go at you personally, but more making my feeling on the issue known.
If they're not supposed to mean anything, take them out of the referral program or make them available to everyone like you did with all the other stuff you opened up. The fact you o admit you put these incentives in to lure people initially (sell more boxes) and then turn around and say something like what you just said implying that the in game bonus is not supposed to be important is just amusing.
Your marketing people know that some people are completionists/collectors and want to get every little thing they can as part of their game experience and Cryptic feed off them in a way that takes advantage of it. Then when Cryptic have squeezed that "market" all they can, they open it up and try and tap into the rest.
No matter how you try and sell your bosses marketing tactics Storm, it still stinks and there are people here who justifiably are upset. The only thing i find worse than what i mentioned above though, is really the selling it as a benefit for the players angle vs the pure and straight out truth that it was just another money grab on Cryptics part.
If it was really about the players you'd have them and all the other C-Store stuff in the game for nothing.
I remember reading all those posts about how EU law should apply even though it was shown that it wasn't. I even went back forth with that for a while but realized there was no point since it was just the same thing over and over.
Then, we have the quoting of IRC chat which was proven incorrect quite soundly. Still it is being hung on to as the central point of the argument even now.
Fact is, there is nothing there but that doesn't stop them from thinking their getting "screwed" over some electronic item that was included in a lifetime sub.
And that is why you have a exclusive, and unique doughnut.
Our discussion stemmed from the issue of what was said in the chat log except you posted. You were shown how it was not an attempt to mislead you. However, apparently you refuse to believe that. You don't believe what others have told you. Fine, whatever.
Look I'm not going over all this, so no matter what you post I'm not replying on the topic, as it isn't the topic of this thread.
You are completely ignoring the fact that is not the only occurance of such a question being put to Cryptic on the matter. They did, no matter how much you don't like it, state multiple times and very clearly there would NEVER be other means of obtaining them.
Legality doesn't come into it, its what people were told.
Sorry Storm, not having a go at you personally, but more making my feeling on the issue known.
If they're not supposed to mean anything, take them out of the referral program or make them available to everyone like you did with all the other stuff you opened up. The fact you o admit you put these incentives in to lure people initially (sell more boxes) and then turn around and say something like what you just said implying that the in game bonus is not supposed to be important is just amusing.
Your marketing people know that some people are completionists/collectors and want to get every little thing they can as part of their game experience and Cryptic feed off them in a way that takes advantage of it. Then when Cryptic have squeezed that "market" all they can, they open it up and try and tap into the rest.
No matter how you try and sell your bosses marketing tactics Storm, it still stinks and there are people here who justifiably are upset. The only thing i find worse than what i mentioned above though, is really the selling it as a benefit for the players angle vs the pure and straight out truth that it was just another money grab on Cryptics part.
If it was really about the players you'd have them and all the other C-Store stuff in the game for nothing.
Where's the problem here?
The guy gives you the opportunity to earn a free ship without paying for it.
Look I'm not going over all this, so no matter what you post I'm not replying on the topic, as it isn't the topic of this thread.
You are completely ignoring the fact that is not the only occurance of such a question being put to Cryptic on the matter. They did, no matter how much you don't like it, state multiple times and very clearly there would NEVER be other means of obtaining them.
Legality doesn't come into it, its what people were told.
What this whole debate boils down to is a group of people, not all, but a significant number want something to set themselves apart from the rest of the players. They use words like, "We were lied to" and " We were tricked" and trust etc. Yet, the real point is they lost what set them apart and made them feel all special.!
That is one point of view. The point of view I've seen more evidence of is people who paid money for a specific offer, which had perceived added value due to the associated statements regarding exclusivity of items. It turns out those items are not 'exclusive' in the sense that if you want item A you must buy offer B, but rather they are 'exclusive' by virtue of you buy offer B you will get item A for a period of time. This is the nub of the issue; not that players want to make it so no-one else can get the items, but that those who did buy offer B now find out they could have just waited and not purchased offer B at all.
The issue is the lack of clarity in the marketing spiel's concerning the offers. It goes to the trustworthiness of marketing announcements by Cryptic now and for the future.
I am just glad that I did not buy any special offers for STO and I certainly won't be in the foreseeable future.
You paid $199 for a Lifetime Subscription to Champions Online. You never have to pay to play that game again.
You also received for free:
A guaranteed slot into the closed beta for Star Trek Online. (I know, I know, but let's not go there please)
The unique Mirror Universe Uniform for STO. (Now a $3.50 value)
The Art Deco Set (Still exclusive only to lifetime and 6 month pre-order subs from CO)
The Retro Future Set (Still exclusive, only to LT subs for CO)
And the Foxbat Action Figure (Still Exclusive to LT subs for CO)
There's still alot of exclusivity in that package, and you don't have to pay a sub fee for Champs ever again. And in 4 more months, you will essentially be playing for free if you consider the average $14.99 sub cost there (Assuming you still play, and if not, I suggest taking a peek again. Some exciting stuff happening over there!).
It's still a value, and it still has many exclusive bonuses associated with it.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Stormshade look at it from our perspective.
We spent 200 bucks for the CO Lifetime Subscription because it had access to the Trek Online Beta and the EXCLUSIVE Mirror Universe Outfit. We Spent money for the Trek Lifetime Subscription to get the Liberated Borg and more character slots. We bought multiple copies of the game (from the Collectors Edition to regular price) so we could have the exclusive items.
We put money up front for Cryptic to further finance your company and future products. All in good faith.
Honestly this is a HUGE slap in the face to customers that have been nothing but loyal to Cryptic. Especially during a dev chat when a dev said that exclusive items like the Mirror Universe outfit would stay just that, exclusive.
Which to add to that, if the world is such a screwed up place and blah blah blah
perhaps you should take a closer look at your decisions or accept the consequences as they as opposed to looking into "the greater morality of it all"
What greater morality? We're lucky strike this side of the milky way that hasn't happened to get hit by a large enough asteroid yet. We haven't happened to encounter a truly dangerous solar flare. We haven't encountered global warming on the scale of Venus. Our species just happened to survive evolution, which if you go by Darwin's theory, is entirely random and not even based on fitness in the understanding of the word. In all reality, the human race might be dead and gone, but bacteria will survive.
So what morality?
Get over yourself. You spent too much money on an outfit as opposed to thinking about your transaction as a transaction for an LTS account and are now mad at Cryptic for interpreting the whole scenario as they set it out to be in the first place. That's not even an atrocity, that's called doing business and making money. Want to find out what an atrocity is to customer service, bank with BoA or Walkovaya.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the sheer crazy you're spouting.
I suggest you quit talking to yourself, as I stopped listening to you the moment you compared a company misleading it's customers to an atrocity that lead to the misery and death of millions of people, as not only is that absolutely insane, it's also something of a false justification, even if i'm to take it seriously.
That is one point of view. The point of view I've seen more evidence of is people who paid money for a specific offer, which had perceived added value due to the associated statements regarding exclusivity of items. It turns out those items are not 'exclusive' in the sense that if you want item A you must buy offer B, but rather they are 'exclusive' by virtue of you buy offer B you will get item A for a period of time. This is the nub of the issue; not that players want to make it so no-one else can get the items, but that those who did buy offer B now find out they could have just waited and not purchased offer B at all.
The issue is the lack of clarity in the marketing spiel's concerning the offers. It goes to the trustworthiness of marketing announcements by Cryptic now and for the future.
I am just glad that I did not buy any special offers for STO and I certainly won't be in the foreseeable future.
This would fall under the "not all" part. There are a few there were concerned due to what you describe. They were more focused on the buisness principle. Myself and others have said that we can understand and see their point of view while we may disagree. However, those folks aren't the issue. The others are.
Well unfortuntly for us, thats something we can't backup in depth. They did a wipe at the end of beta, only archving sections. The only one we did find was from a IRC conversation. Its not a cop out though, its just sadly the truth. However, you would have seen posts in that thread in question where other CO lifers stated the exact same thing, along with some even stating they phoned them to ask the question.
That is one point of view. The point of view I've seen more evidence of is people who paid money for a specific offer, which had perceived added value due to the associated statements regarding exclusivity of items. It turns out those items are not 'exclusive' in the sense that if you want item A you must buy offer B, but rather they are 'exclusive' by virtue of you buy offer B you will get item A for a period of time. This is the nub of the issue; not that players want to make it so no-one else can get the items, but that those who did buy offer B now find out they could have just waited and not purchased offer B at all.
The issue is the lack of clarity in the marketing spiel's concerning the offers. It goes to the trustworthiness of marketing announcements by Cryptic now and for the future.
I am just glad that I did not buy any special offers for STO and I certainly won't be in the foreseeable future.
I wouldn't trust anyone that much anyway. It's just good common sense to weigh your purchases correctly. Like I would think to myself whether or not a CO LTS would be a good idea based on whether or not CO looked like a good game, not based on a costume piece in STO.
I wouldn't trust anyone that much anyway. It's just good common sense to weigh your purchases correctly. Like I would think to myself whether or not a CO LTS would be a good idea based on whether or not CO looked like a good game, not based on a costume piece in STO.
It DID look like a good game. I played COH extensively and enjoyed every minute. CO is missing something that I have never been able to put my finger on. Also Cryptic kept their exclusives exclusive in COH, and CO.
This is the nub of the issue; not that players want to make it so no-one else can get the items, but that those who did buy offer B now find out they could have just waited and not purchased offer B at all.
I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen commercials for a Disney movie being re-released on DVD "for a limited time before it gets locked away in the vaults forever!".... only to show up on store shelves again the following Christmas, and in the dollar bin after Black Friday.
People paid extra for the privilege of having access to unique and exclusive items before others who didn't pay extra for them did, and they got what the paid for.
The guy gives you the opportunity to earn a free ship without paying for it.
I think the problem is it took me awhile alot of talking to different peopel to ge that ship and to put it up for 10 or so dollars means I worked for like 3 cents an hour
Well unfortuntly for us, thats something we can't backup. They did a wipe at the end of beta, only archving sections. The only one we did find was from a IRC conversation. Its not a cop out though, its just sadly the truth. However, you would have seen posts in that thread in question where other CO lifeters stated the exact same thing, along with some even stating the phones them to ask the question.
Since there is no evidence to say that they used the word "never" I am sorry (seriously) but that doesn't mean that it can be considered. We can play hypothetical with it but for the purpose of this ongoing debate it can't be used as there is no proof they ever used the term "never"
So, since they never said "never" (no proof to the contrary) then the results still stand that you were not lied too. The items were exclusive and they were exclusive for a time. Now they are not. Now, like I told you in the other thread. You want to stand on principle that it is a bad buisness practice. Fine, I will concede that I can see how you would arrive at that conclusion and sympathize. However, you can't claim you were lied to or mislead if you have no evidence to back it up with.
The chat log you posted shows that they said they were exclusive and they were. They said they couldn't be obtained anywhere else. At the time of that chat log that is true, they couldn't.
Look I'm not going over all this, so no matter what you post I'm not replying on the topic, as it isn't the topic of this thread..
Translation: I'm not winning this argument so I'm giving up. Why do I get the feeling you will return to this as soon as you run out of other arguments?
I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen commercials for a Disney movie being re-released on DVD "for a limited time before it gets locked away in the vaults forever!".... only to show up on store shelves again the following Christmas, and in the dollar bin after Black Friday.
People paid extra for the privilege of having access to unique and exclusive items before others who didn't pay extra for them did, and they got what the paid for.
Comments
Then you DID make the right choice! So why all the annoyance about the MU uniforms? If you are liking CO, and not feeling cheated, and you feel glad that you took the offer, it's worth it. This means that the MU uniforms were an extra perk, just as they were intended. If you made the right decision, anyway, does it matter that the MU uniforms are now in the C-Store? You got it for free, and still can play CO whenever you want.
We've suggested dictionary definitions.
We could draw Venn Diagrams of the logical constructs that form this whole argument.
We could speak till we're blue in the face.
However, there was no misrepresentation. There isn't. Look at the definitions and how the word is both formally and colloquially used. Look at the context and dates associated with the events. Look at the vast array of external influences, if the interior logic of the debate evades you.
Anything further explanation from me would run the risk of sounding like I'm talking down to child (which would insult intelligences further). So, I'm going to retire from the debate.
Our discussion stemmed from the issue of what was said in the chat log except you posted. You were shown how it was not an attempt to mislead you. However, apparently you refuse to believe that. You don't believe what others have told you. Fine, whatever.
Which to add to that, if the world is such a screwed up place and blah blah blah
perhaps you should take a closer look at your decisions or accept the consequences as they as opposed to looking into "the greater morality of it all"
What greater morality? We're lucky strike this side of the milky way that hasn't happened to get hit by a large enough asteroid yet. We haven't happened to encounter a truly dangerous solar flare. We haven't encountered global warming on the scale of Venus. Our species just happened to survive evolution, which if you go by Darwin's theory, is entirely random and not even based on fitness in the understanding of the word. In all reality, the human race might be dead and gone, but bacteria will survive.
So what morality?
Get over yourself. You spent too much money on an outfit as opposed to thinking about your transaction as a transaction for an LTS account and are now mad at Cryptic for interpreting the whole scenario as they set it out to be in the first place. That's not even an atrocity, that's called doing business and making money. Want to find out what an atrocity is to customer service, bank with BoA or Walkovaya.
You are missing the point. I'm not annoyed about the MU unforms per say, I'm annoyed at the fact that the CO community was lied to.
Just because I ended up liking CO and glad I took the offer, doesn't mean others are.
Right, I'm going to keep my head down for this round.
I remember reading all those posts about how EU law should apply even though it was shown that it wasn't. I even went back forth with that for a while but realized there was no point since it was just the same thing over and over.
Then, we have the quoting of IRC chat which was proven incorrect quite soundly. Still it is being hung on to as the central point of the argument even now.
Fact is, there is nothing there but that doesn't stop them from thinking their getting "screwed" over some electronic item that was included in a lifetime sub.
Yet, they weren't lied to. It has been shown conclusively that there was no lie.
(BTW for the record, I never edited your posts. I don't do that.)
Sorry Storm, not having a go at you personally, but more making my feeling on the issue known.
If they're not supposed to mean anything, take them out of the referral program or make them available to everyone like you did with all the other stuff you opened up. The fact you o admit you put these incentives in to lure people initially (sell more boxes) and then turn around and say something like what you just said implying that the in game bonus is not supposed to be important is just amusing.
Your marketing people know that some people are completionists/collectors and want to get every little thing they can as part of their game experience and Cryptic feed off them in a way that takes advantage of it. Then when Cryptic have squeezed that "market" all they can, they open it up and try and tap into the rest.
No matter how you try and sell your bosses marketing tactics Storm, it still stinks and there are people here who justifiably are upset. The only thing i find worse than what i mentioned above though, is really the selling it as a benefit for the players angle vs the pure and straight out truth that it was just another money grab on Cryptics part.
If it was really about the players you'd have them and all the other C-Store stuff in the game for nothing.
And that is why you have a exclusive, and unique doughnut.
Look I'm not going over all this, so no matter what you post I'm not replying on the topic, as it isn't the topic of this thread.
You are completely ignoring the fact that is not the only occurance of such a question being put to Cryptic on the matter. They did, no matter how much you don't like it, state multiple times and very clearly there would NEVER be other means of obtaining them.
Legality doesn't come into it, its what people were told.
Where's the problem here?
The guy gives you the opportunity to earn a free ship without paying for it.
Yes we were. Quit ignoring fact. We know exactly what we were told.
**EDIT** Yes, I know you don't. I wasn't referring to you, so appolpogies if it felt that way.
They never said NEVER.
Where did they say NEVER.
That is one point of view. The point of view I've seen more evidence of is people who paid money for a specific offer, which had perceived added value due to the associated statements regarding exclusivity of items. It turns out those items are not 'exclusive' in the sense that if you want item A you must buy offer B, but rather they are 'exclusive' by virtue of you buy offer B you will get item A for a period of time. This is the nub of the issue; not that players want to make it so no-one else can get the items, but that those who did buy offer B now find out they could have just waited and not purchased offer B at all.
The issue is the lack of clarity in the marketing spiel's concerning the offers. It goes to the trustworthiness of marketing announcements by Cryptic now and for the future.
I am just glad that I did not buy any special offers for STO and I certainly won't be in the foreseeable future.
Ummm, I am not the ignoring facts. Not in this thread or the other thread.
Stormshade look at it from our perspective.
We spent 200 bucks for the CO Lifetime Subscription because it had access to the Trek Online Beta and the EXCLUSIVE Mirror Universe Outfit. We Spent money for the Trek Lifetime Subscription to get the Liberated Borg and more character slots. We bought multiple copies of the game (from the Collectors Edition to regular price) so we could have the exclusive items.
We put money up front for Cryptic to further finance your company and future products. All in good faith.
Honestly this is a HUGE slap in the face to customers that have been nothing but loyal to Cryptic. Especially during a dev chat when a dev said that exclusive items like the Mirror Universe outfit would stay just that, exclusive.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the sheer crazy you're spouting.
I suggest you quit talking to yourself, as I stopped listening to you the moment you compared a company misleading it's customers to an atrocity that lead to the misery and death of millions of people, as not only is that absolutely insane, it's also something of a false justification, even if i'm to take it seriously.
I'm up to unique on my doughnut now? WOOHOO!!!
This would fall under the "not all" part. There are a few there were concerned due to what you describe. They were more focused on the buisness principle. Myself and others have said that we can understand and see their point of view while we may disagree. However, those folks aren't the issue. The others are.
Well unfortuntly for us, thats something we can't backup in depth. They did a wipe at the end of beta, only archving sections. The only one we did find was from a IRC conversation. Its not a cop out though, its just sadly the truth. However, you would have seen posts in that thread in question where other CO lifers stated the exact same thing, along with some even stating they phoned them to ask the question.
I wouldn't trust anyone that much anyway. It's just good common sense to weigh your purchases correctly. Like I would think to myself whether or not a CO LTS would be a good idea based on whether or not CO looked like a good game, not based on a costume piece in STO.
It DID look like a good game. I played COH extensively and enjoyed every minute. CO is missing something that I have never been able to put my finger on. Also Cryptic kept their exclusives exclusive in COH, and CO.
I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen commercials for a Disney movie being re-released on DVD "for a limited time before it gets locked away in the vaults forever!".... only to show up on store shelves again the following Christmas, and in the dollar bin after Black Friday.
People paid extra for the privilege of having access to unique and exclusive items before others who didn't pay extra for them did, and they got what the paid for.
I think the problem is it took me awhile alot of talking to different peopel to ge that ship and to put it up for 10 or so dollars means I worked for like 3 cents an hour
Since there is no evidence to say that they used the word "never" I am sorry (seriously) but that doesn't mean that it can be considered. We can play hypothetical with it but for the purpose of this ongoing debate it can't be used as there is no proof they ever used the term "never"
So, since they never said "never" (no proof to the contrary) then the results still stand that you were not lied too. The items were exclusive and they were exclusive for a time. Now they are not. Now, like I told you in the other thread. You want to stand on principle that it is a bad buisness practice. Fine, I will concede that I can see how you would arrive at that conclusion and sympathize. However, you can't claim you were lied to or mislead if you have no evidence to back it up with.
The chat log you posted shows that they said they were exclusive and they were. They said they couldn't be obtained anywhere else. At the time of that chat log that is true, they couldn't.
Does krispy kreme make them if they do I want one Loves me some Krispy Kemes
Translation: I'm not winning this argument so I'm giving up. Why do I get the feeling you will return to this as soon as you run out of other arguments?
Cinderella, Wizard of Oz to name two.