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Make the All Good Things Galaxy Non-exclusive to the Referral Program

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    He still had it right the first time, as that is really all that a referral system is.

    I take issue with his use of the word recruit, since again this is selling, regardless of what the referral prgram is or isn't.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sivar wrote: »
    Welcome to the real world, it's harsh so you have to deal with it.......

    Yeah.
    Here's another lesson from the real world: You anger your customers, they will go elsewhere.

    I sure hope you enjoy the game Cryptic leaves you with after this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The way this debate seems to me is that there are two sides to it.

    The first: "This is a good business strategy on Cryptic's part. Putting a highly sought after item as the carrot at the end of the referral process will get lots of participation, lots of referrals and eventually lots of revenue to keep the development of the game going strong. I like STO, I like the ship, I'll do what is necessary to get the ship I desire."

    The Second: "This is a bad business strategy on Cryptic part. I want that ship and the using the referral process to get it is too time consuming and is going to end up hurting STO in the long run since everyone is going rage quit if Cryptic goes through with it. I like STO, I want that ship, and I am going to rage and scream until this decision is changed so that I can get the reward without going through this program. Cryptic promised that they wouldn't add any game changing elements to the C-store, and by extension the concept applies here due to how much of a task it is going to be to get the ship that I want and that money is exchange hands, not necessarily mine to theirs, but Cryptic is still making money off this that isn't related to the Subs. Therefore this is a bad idea. That ship is canon to Star Trek. The players shouldn't have to pay extra for a canon ship therefore this is a bad idea. This referral system looks like a Pyramid scheme, therefor it is immoral and a bad idea and I should get the ship I want by some other means except for this one way that they have stated.

    Neither side is going to back down from this argument for one reason, they are both right. And thus the forums explode as they have.
    I take issue with his use of the word recruit, since again this is selling, regardless of what the referral prgram is or isn't.

    Tough. The program is what is it is. Often times a recruitment to any organization is exactly like this. You ask someone if they want to join, point out that there is a fee for joining, and that there are monthly dues for doing so. You do this because you are already a member of the organization and know that in some way, shape or form you'll be compensated for your time.

    *I am using you as a hypothetical here, not pointing at anyone in particular.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Yeah.
    Here's another lesson from the real world: You anger your customers, they will go elsewhere.

    I sure hope you enjoy the game Cryptic leaves you with after this.

    SOE lied to the media over and over again about how great the NGE was, and that it was the game that we "really wanted". Look at where they are today. Radioactive waste has a better reputation.

    Cryptic seems to be racing with SOE to the bottom.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Yeah.
    Here's another lesson from the real world: You anger your customers, they will go elsewhere.

    I sure hope you enjoy the game Cryptic leaves you with after this.

    The general player-base is content with much of what Cryptic is doing. From their own words they are meeting their target subscription numbers so you figure out how this is going....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Welcome to the real world, it's harsh so you have to deal with it.......

    Proper business practice and marketing are also in the real world. Which one do you live in?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It's not good business strategy at all. That's the funny part.
    Word of mouth is a powerful thing, yes. How do you think potential players will react when the word of mouth gets out that Cryptic are attempting to make people shill for an incomplete game, for a GAMEPLAY item (fed cloak + cannon = whole new element for Feds).

    Don't give me the "they all do it!" speech.
    As has been pointed out, Blizzard waited for years before doing a referral program. It wasn't until after their first expansion that it went into full swing.
    Even SWG didn't have the unmitigated gall to use a referral program offering gameplay exclusives within the first 4 months of it going live!

    The key points here.
    Too soon.
    Too much.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sivar wrote: »
    Not listening! LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA

    Okay, I get it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Okay, I get it.

    That seems to also be the official response from Cryptic too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This situation really is hopeless. Both sides are yelling at each other yet no one is listening.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Fixed it for you. If you're going to patronize people with genuine concerns so smugly, at least get it right.

    I find your statement amusing considering the color of your name.

    You really think this is about $200? Seriously?

    Lets boil this down with an ounce of objectiveness. Remove the proper nouns.

    The Company is looking to have the Players recruit more Players, and is offering a Reward for those who show exceptional effort in this regard.

    There are two immediate intended results for this.

    The first is getting The Players to speak about The Game in Positive Words to the outside world. When you look about for information on The Game, you will quickly find that a small but loud group of people are doing their best to speak about the game in Negative Words. This small group is a concern to The Company. The hope and intention here is, to get the Players who want the Reward to work for it by going out as Advocates of The Game.

    The second result, and not in the way you imagine, is the Company is hopeful that enough Players take up the role of Advocate in the hopes of Reward that the general criticism of the Game becomes more Positive. With more Positive criticism out there, more people will consider the Game, and if more people consider the Game, more people will try it - in general. We're not talking about Recruits here. We're talking about the curious onlooker who sees the mood about the game in the post(s) of Players looking for Reward, and are drawn on their own to try it. This has a far greater impact.


    I work for a company who specializes in Social Media marketing. (EDIT: My roile is not directly related to this facet of the company, but its a small firm, we're all involved in eachother's projects)

    The above is the why and what of what we do, daily. We do a giveaway on Facebook, not because of the 10 people who get it, but the thousands of people who see the 100 people try to get it.

    Your $200 contribution is nice, but ultimately I doubt there will be more than 1000 new accounts as a result of this $200,000 is not as big a deal in an 8-figure business world.

    What has real value to the company in the long run is your Positive statements made in an attempt to get those 5 people, that is what Cryptic NEEDS.

    There are people I can name off the top of my head, and maybe a handful more I could identify easily, who have left here (or are still here but also post elsewhere) and taken it upon themselves to bash STO everywhere they can.

    Now lets assume 3% of us actually go for this in the way they intended... 3000+ (actual subs dependant) players try for this. Maybe only 100 or so go out on the web, to well known sites, and try to recruit people there with positive posts and some kind of incentive to let them refer (like bred tribbles or something). That's 100 more people posting 10 or more times on the web about STO in a positive way.


    THAT is the goal.


    The only issue here? That the Reward is something a small sample of the players here seem to be very loudly demanding. (most MMO forum communities represent 8-10% of the subs, and this is a subset of that, so... yeah.)

    The backfire isnt the reward system, or even the timeing, its this specific reward.

    All I see when I read 50+ pages of this are a handful of people who want this but cant/wont get recruits, and so they are insigiting a riot. In the end, if I were to actually just remove 5 people's posts (guessing) from this thread, I'd see a very different picture.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I personally couldn't care less how the ship is attainable in-game. The quickest way I can aquire it will be the way I get it. If that's recruiting 5 friends, that's fine with me. If others wish it to be a 500 day reward (as one stated example) and are willing to wait the year and a half to get it. That's fine too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The key points here.
    Too soon.
    Too much.

    Much like all the hating.

    For all we know, the cannon will be next to useless, or the entire design rather ugly. Might even become a vanity ship with only a mild functionality, and a lot of gimmicks.

    Or better yet, regular Tier 5 ships might be equally desireable.

    By now all complaints are hopefully noted, I for one don't see the point in going on about this till either its implemented or the opposite.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This situation really is hopeless. Both sides are yelling at each other yet no one is listening.

    Adding fluff stuff for a referral program: I have no problem with it.

    Adding a ship skin to the referral program: I have some problems with it, but could accept it.

    Adding a ship to the referral program that is more powerful than any other ship in the game: I have HUGE problems with it!

    Anyone who doesn't is simply not looking out for the best interests of themselves, their fellow players, and the health of the game.

    The reason why Cryptic is doing this is because they think that they have to add something of that magnitude to get anything OUT of the referral program. That right there says more than they want said about the true health of this game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Jnoh. Here's all I have to say to you.

    People will not be speaking of STO in a positive light.
    They will be going "Please man, just buy the game and sub for one month. You don't even have to play it, just do this favour for me so I can get the awesome ship. PLEASE. If we're really friends you'll do it."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sivar wrote:
    Not listening! LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA
    Okay, I get it.

    It's funny how that same mentality can be applied to you. The whole no listening bit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It's not good business strategy at all. That's the funny part.
    Word of mouth is a powerful thing, yes. How do you think potential players will react when the word of mouth gets out that Cryptic are attempting to make people shill for an incomplete game, for a GAMEPLAY item (fed cloak + cannon = whole new element for Feds).

    Don't give me the "they all do it!" speech.
    As has been pointed out, Blizzard waited for years before doing a referral program. It wasn't until after their first expansion that it went into full swing.
    Even SWG didn't have the unmitigated gall to use a referral program offering gameplay exclusives within the first 4 months of it going live!

    The key points here.
    Too soon.
    Too much.

    Or the game is getting to a point where Cryptic is confident enough to start the game up with the content that they have coming.

    As for the "they all do it" speech as you put it, answer me this, how many MMOs were doing it before Blizzard was successful in their referral program? How many MMOs even had one years before Blizzard made theirs? I honestly don't know who came out with he first one. (gonna go see if I can find out....)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wildcat84 wrote: »
    Adding fluff stuff for a referral program: I have no problem with it.

    Adding a ship skin to the referral program: I have some problems with it, but could accept it.

    Adding a ship to the referral program that is more powerful than any other ship in the game: I have HUGE problems with it!

    Anyone who doesn't is simply not looking out for the best interests of themselves, their fellow players, and the health of the game.

    Pretty much this. If some of the pro-referrals would just listen to us, you'd see we're not even against the idea of such a program or rewards. It is the nature of the reward that bothers us the most.

    I also have personal misgivings since it is rather too soon for such a program in the first place, but that's another issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This situation really is hopeless. Both sides are yelling at each other yet no one is listening.

    Reading can be done at the comfort of their chair while listening to classical music and having tea. Its not like its that hard to see what Britney has been saying all along....

    OOPS I DID IT AGAIN *insert cheesy music*
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It's funny how that same mentality can be applied to you. The whole no listening bit.

    I'd like to see you explain how.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sivar wrote: »
    Or the game is getting to a point where Cryptic is confident enough to start the game up with the content that they have coming.

    Sorry, no deal. When the game ACTUALLY HAS enough content, then we'll talk.
    As for the "they all do it" speech as you put it, answer me this, how many MMOs were doing it before[/i] Blizzard was successful in their referral program? How many MMOs even had one years before Blizzard made theirs? I honestly don't know who came out with he first one. (gonna go see if I can find out....)

    I don't know, and I don't care. The point is, Blizzard did it at a point when the game had a huge amount of content, when people could recommend it based on that fact alone.
    That should be the standard for referral programs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Jnoh. Here's all I have to say to you.

    People will not be speaking of STO in a positive light.
    They will be going "Please man, just buy the game and sub for one month. You don't even have to play it, just do this favour for me so I can get the awesome ship. PLEASE. If we're really friends you'll do it."

    I understand that.

    I didn't mean to say the plan is a good one, just that its not about $200... the intention and hope is that people posting "come play STO" is positive enough, and to a degree, people like me WILL be posting in a positive light - I'M HAVING FUN HERE*

    *(when not on the forums)

    I also know any advocacy for the game I have will be highly tempered with things like "don't bother playing Klingon, its sort of still in Beta but they pushed it live anyway" and "the game is still Young, but they make headway regularly and some really cool things have come out recently" and finally "you'll get at least 60 days of play from the game in its present state" Which is speaking more to the $25 box + $15 month.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sorry, no deal. When the game ACTUALLY HAS enough content, then we'll talk.

    You're not paying attention man. Cryptic hasn't even started the referral program (the site for it isn't up and running), they only announced it and there is more content ON THE WAY. You're so drawn into your disappointment that this game isn't exactly what you wanted it to be that nothing Cryptic does is going to satisfy you......
    I don't know, and I don't care. The point is, Blizzard did it at a point when the game had a huge amount of content, when people could recommend it based on that fact alone.
    That should be the standard for referral programs.

    You know that whole "LA LA LA LA LA" quote that you edited my post to saying really applies to you here too.....:(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sivar wrote: »
    You're not paying attention man. Cryptic hasn't even started the referral program (the site for it isn't up and running), they only announced it and there is more content ON THE WAY. You're so drawn into your disappointment that this game isn't exactly what you wanted it to be that nothing Cryptic does is going to satisfy you......

    That has no bearing on the fact that the game now is unsatisfactory and all we have is vague promises of improvement. Season 2 does not offer THAT much as it stands now.
    A referral program should come after at least a year of content for players to truly give an unbiased recommendation.
    You know that whole "LA LA LA LA LA" quote that you edited my post to saying really applies to you here too.....:(

    How so? I'm making a point of regardless of what MMO started this kind of referral program, at least Blizzard does it right.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Jnoh wrote:
    ..... people like me WILL be posting in a positive light - I'M HAVING FUN HERE*......

    1player having fun to every 247 not happy with it.

    .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'd like to see you explain how.

    Alrighty then. You, and quite a decent number of others on both sides, are so completely convinced that you are right in this regard that every point and counter point made on either side is being ignored and responded to with posts that when summed up equal this.

    "You're wrong. Here's the reasons that you already responded to as to why you are wrong."

    You have been doing this the whole time I have been reading these threads, your changing of Sivar's post to read "Not Listening LA LA LA LA LA LA." only proves that this mind set of yours is already set in stone and that anything that any says here is totally and completely wrong.

    It's been the same reasons, the same responses, time and again, coming from both sides, and individuals on both sides, for three days straight! I am getting a massive migraine from all the constant yelling, and bickering, and ignoring each other in favor of continuing to supports your own arguments instead of trying to find reasonable and thought out responses to those arguments.

    And before anyone says I should just exercise my freewill and choose not to come into these threads anymore, let me point out this one thing. This is the hot topic discussion item in STO right now. It would be foolish to simply ignore it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't know, and I don't care. The point is, Blizzard did it at a point when the game had a huge amount of content, when people could recommend it based on that fact alone.
    That should be the standard for referral programs.

    Alright I did some looking around and I can't find any reference to a referral program to ANY game before Blizzard did it. A number of other similar programs popped up with various games after they did it and were successful, which if it holds true (if anybody can find somebody who did it before Blizzard please feel free to correct me), means that Blizzard came up with the idea.

    That means they didn't wait 2 years to do the program, it means it took them 2 years to come up with the idea for the program in the first place. They didn't wait because they thought the game was unfinished or anything, they did it right when they thought up the idea, which just happened to be a few years into the game, meaning your argument is invalid.....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This is NOT the kind of TRANSPARENCY that ZINC was talking about? Ummmm.......no its not

    I did not see a poll or a lets ask the player base how they feel about this idea? This is going over about as well as the "advisory council". You guys might want to try the front page test, If you think the player base would be upset and writing threads on threads about....its probably a bad idea. Or PM me I will give some feed back.

    CRYPTIC is you marketing team run by KARL ROVE? Will we be soon looking for fictitious WMD's in the SOL SYSTEM? You marketing team must be way out of touch with the player base and any form of reality in this time line!

    So far your definition of transparency is clear as (Harry)MUDD
    ..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Alrighty then. You, and quite a decent number of others on both sides, are so completely convinced that you are right in this regard that every point and counter point made on either side is being ignored and responded to with posts that when summed up equal this.

    "You're wrong. Here's the reasons that you already responded to as to why you are wrong."

    You have been doing this the whole time I have been reading these threads, your changing of Sivar's post to read "Not Listening LA LA LA LA LA LA." only proves that this mind set of yours is already set in stone and that anything that any says here is totally and completely wrong.

    It's been the same reasons, the same responses, time and again, coming from both sides, and individuals on both sides, for three days straight! I am getting a massive migraine from all the constant yelling, and bickering, and ignoring each other in favor of continuing to supports your own arguments instead of trying to find reasonable and thought out responses to those arguments.

    And before anyone says I should just exercise my freewill and choose not to come into these threads anymore, let me point out this one thing. This is the hot topic discussion item in STO right now. It would be foolish to simply ignore it.

    My changing of Sivar's post was in response to that post being the typical "Cryptic is doing fine" spiel that is simply not true.
    I read the points of the pro-Galaxy X referral people and counter every one, meanwhile you sit there complaining about people being angry with it.
    Tough. It's a bad decision. We have every right to be appalled.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sivar wrote: »
    Alright I did some looking around and I can't find any reference to a referral program to ANY game before Blizzard did it. A number of other similar programs popped up with various games after they did it and were successful, which if it holds true (if anybody can find somebody who did it before Blizzard please feel free to correct me), means that Blizzard came up with the idea.

    That means they didn't wait 2 years to do the program, it means it took them 2 years to come up with the idea for the program in the first place. They didn't wait because they thought the game was unfinished or anything, they did it right when they thought up the idea, which just happened to be a few years into the game, meaning your argument is invalid.....

    Complete assumption on your part. The fact is, regardless of the reason, Blizzard started a referral program when they actually had a solid game to refer people to.

    Also, the "encourage a friend to try the product you have" is not a new concept.
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