Because I read a lot "most players are against/for death penalty" without really knowing, I got curious and just started counting on this thread. I only included those posters of who I was pretty sure where they stood.
These are the results (up till now).
Disclaimers:
- A forum does not correctly represent the whole player base.
- A thread does not correctly represent the whole forum.
- If I missrepresent your point of view and added you to the wrong list or left you out, you can tell me (send me a private message) and I'll edit this post.
On the issue of death penalties in STO at this point:
Saying yes: 82 posters
Saying rather yes: 26 posters Total YES: 108 posters
Saying no: 220 posters
Saying rather no: 65 posters Total NO: 285 posters
Ration no to yes: ±2.64 to 1.
Division: ±27.5% say yes, ±72,5% say no.
well now whats all this hype about...death penalties eh...
ok enough with the theatrics...there are a few things i would like to point out...and i thank whoever took the time to count all posts about death penaties...(above)
ok i think death penaties are ok for this game i mean in pvp probably not the greatest idea(of course this is just because i seem to always get destroyed bye the empire) but in PvE i think it is a good idea so you just cant charge in weapons blazing to every encounter and do it over and over and over until you get the job done...
just some food for thought unless you want to play this way...
my proposed soulution is taking the credits idea just allitle further...
pay X amount to respawn your ship, and when you run out of money perhaps make a debt system where you go into negitives...
While I am opposed to the death penalty in principle, particulalry insofar as it discourages players from taking heroic/ambitious risks with their imaginary hero/villain/starship captain, I understand that something is needed in PVP to prevent the abuse of suicide tactics, etc. I will add my name to those against the death penalty for now, but I am willing to accept some kind of death penalty so long as it does not unduly punish PvE players in the name of PvP balance.
What I mean is, I don't want to get slapped with a crippling combat penalty because the enemy signal contact that just chased me down also spawned me into a firefight with enemies 30+ levels higher than me. I do not want to suffer from a major debuff because an NPC boss has bodyguards that respawn when klilled and completely ignore shields, particularly if my respawn point is inside their attack range. I do not enjoy coming within a hair's breadth of defeating a challenging enemy, failing only because I was a milisecond too slow, or a single miss or critical hit happened at the wrong time, and then being slapped with a 75% reduction to all of my stats as a consolation prize for putting up a good fight.
What I fear when I hear 'death penalty' is this:
"Thanks for trying our game, buddy, but why don't you go @#*( off for the next 5-10 minutes? Your failure to complete this mission after 30-45 solid minutes of work is not enough punishment for losing one fight, so we're going to make it harder for you to make up for the lost time. If you thought that fight was a challenge before, let's see you try it with all your stats cut in half, sucker!"
With the current state of the game, there are plenty of ways to die that the player can do little or nothing to prevent. As long as a player could unexpectedly die to insanely-high level wandering ships in deep space encounters, or an enemy group spawned for a 5-man party when the other party members were sent to a different instance, or anything along those lines, a death penalty on top of it will feel like a slap in the face. Sure, some of these issues aren't as much of a problem once you're capped, but an MMO can't survive without continually pulling in new players, and those players will have to climb the ranks and feel the pain. Kicking them while they're down won't make them want to stay.
NO To A Harsher Death Penalty. Fix The Game First.
For the record, there already is a death penalty: you are forced to wait out a short timer, then respawn at a respawn point and return to battle. It's not much, but it is a penalty.
The biggest problem with implementing a harsher death penalty is that the game isn't designed for it. Dropping one in now would make the game more frustrating, not more "meaningful".
Does that mean a harsher death penalty wouldn't make sense in the future? No. If the game design supports it, then it might well be the right way to go.
But short of rewriting significant aspects of the game, including fixing major bugs, stability issues and how instancing/autoteaming and other key features currently work, grafting on some sort of gratuitous punishment for being defeated would almost certainly irritate and alienate a majority of players, including those who currently think it would be a good idea.
The risks are many and the rewards are few, at a time when STO's success in the marketplace is not assured.
Effects on all aspects of the game would have to be considered and designed for. The potential for major dysfunction is high, particularly for PvP, which is arguably tolerable under the current regime, but could quickly become intolerable and unattractive to players.
Does that mean Cryptic can't implement a harsher death penalty that will ultimately please the community? Of course not. It can be done.
However, devoting resources to something like that when so many fundamental aspects of the game are grievously bugged, unstable and unreliable seems irresponsible.
Implementing a truly "meaningful" death penalty is not a trivial task. It will require significant developmental resources that would probably be better deployed on other issues. On the other hand, just dropping one in would guarantee a raft of new problems affecting all aspects of game operations.
Imagine the effect on GMs when players start submitting tickets demanding compensation for "unfair" deaths caused by game bugs. That alone could sink the support team, again, at a time when there are much more important problems to resolve.
Why not fix the game to function as designed so people can actually experience how it should work first?
This is a test. I urge Cryptic to exercise extreme caution in considering what may end up being a leap off the NGE cliff, and not to proceed with any drastic game changes that have such catastrophic potential without being absolutely sure the real Community of STO players (most of whom don't bother with the forums) will be happy with them.
Saying "No Death Penalty" is like saying .. "I'm a twinkie punk .. I want everything now, now, now, and refuse to pay any price for my poorly thought-out (exploitive or just plain dumba**) methods of getting it."
I have to disagree with you on this. I think the reason we differ is because we view the reason for playing the game differently.
To say that we are getting everything now, now, now and refusing to pay for it indicates that you don't believe my time is worth anything. You assume that the only way to pay for something is for there to be a risk involved in getting it.
That is not true. If I wanted a game that required risk for reward, there are tons of previously mentioned many times (i.e. EVE Online) that do that VERY well.
I believe, and I hope and think many others agree, that STO is meant to be an adventure in the Star Trek universe that is just plain fun. It is geared toward the casual Star Trek fan.
I am getting "stuff" in STO because I spend my time playing it, not because I am taking a risk of loosing something. That is a plus plus or win win instead of a risk / reward type system. I can log in, spend some time and enjoy the rewards without any risk of feeling like I spent time doing something and then lost it all because I made a mistake.
Because I read a lot "most players are against/for death penalty" without really knowing, I got curious and just started counting on this thread. I only included those posters of who I was pretty sure where they stood.
These are the results (up till now).
Disclaimers:
- A forum does not correctly represent the whole player base.
- A thread does not correctly represent the whole forum.
- If I missrepresent your point of view and added you to the wrong list or left you out, you can tell me (send me a private message) and I'll edit this post.
On the issue of death penalties in STO at this point:
Saying yes: 82 posters
Saying rather yes: 26 posters Total YES: 108 posters
Saying no: 220 posters
Saying rather no: 65 posters Total NO: 285 posters
Ration no to yes: ±2.64 to 1.
Division: ±27.5% say yes, ±72,5% say no.
Thank you for taking the time to do this analysis. Despite your disclaimers it is interesting to see what the results are.
This is why I don't want a death penalty, but rather a death experience. In Star Trek you didn't see the Enterprise, Voyager, or Defiant get blown to smithereens and then suddenly materialize out of space. Your argument against some form of death event works for a death event as well.
I'm not masochistic or sadistic and I don't want to make people suffer. I just want an experience that is true to the Star Trek mythos. Ships don't magically reappear in the Star Trek universe, so I feel they should not magically reappear in Star Trek Online. Simple as that. It's not about gaming; it's about the atmosphere.
full post of the quote
If I wanted EVE I would play EVE.
I am repeating myself from my earlier post, but that is because I don't want it to get lost in the volume of replies here.
The Star Trek Universe is about fun. I have read posts in this thread about repair costs and such. In Star Trek did you ever see Kirk or Picard having to worry about repairing their ships? They just took them to the local star base and got all fixed up.
In fact all through the show DS 9 over and over people bring their ships to DS9 and get them repaired. I got the feeling they never had to pay for anything.
Picard said many times to many people how they had done away with money. It was all about making the best of your self.
Star Trek Online should, and currently is, about playing and not day to day living. We explore, we fight, we learn we play. We don't grind. Anyone who is grinding in STO, doesn't get it yet. It is a game of fun.
If you want hard work and penalties, go play EVE Online. As a life time subscriber (didn't even have to think about buying the life time subscription) I hope STO continues along its current path and doesn't try to be what the other MMOs are. Keep it fun, not work!!
To this i agreee it needs fun not repair. as to ships dont just pop back maby but let me point out something.
The ships you mention everyone looks at are the major players but least you forget there are thousands of ships that get blasted all the time! Ok Ok maby a bit over board ther on the number but look at the dominion war? Wolf 359? Many in Voyager. Granted in TOS not that many but i think anyone can see the time frame here this is set past even that. And for reference to ships just poping in to view and blowing up to be fine alow me to point out a few....
Tos admiral kirk Steals a fed ship (Enterprise). Blow it up capture a bop (Bounty). Time travels and then sinks that one. Faces a jury and gets handed a brand new ship and Told keep up the good work .
Picard crashed the enterprise D. Time travels. Brings back kirk temporal violation ther as well thow not as bad as kirk. Gets handed a brand new ship enterprise -E! then time travel again here gets borg infested thats damage there for ya. fixed again FREE. Then he decides to ram its prow in to a romulan and o water its fixed again. But wate im not finished....
Everyone stated thow it was such a question with worf geting on enterprise and first thing how is the defiant dreaded loss there but let me as a trek fan point it was not the defiant in fact. It was the Sam Palo taken out of a federation shipyard and renamed the defiant and first given to sisko after the defiant was destroyed in a attack of breen energy dampening weapons in the assault of the dominion. A failed one of all three empires.
Last but not least Voyager anyone remember year of hell? By raming the voyager in to the time ship it caused a temperal reversion instantly replacing the voyager with a fresh one and the year of hell never took place.
not to mention several alternet realities wormholes transporter accedents cloaning and least i forget next generations all good things and Q. The list is endless so for all the once saying star trek is in need of a DP any trek fan will see it is not needed anf the timer is fine. And for all those that try and flame me i would be in the mind to agree to a respawn that makes you have a crew regen time as it stands at present and say only 20% hull making one wate for that regen use abilitys such as kirk has can any one say scottie? ect but any more than that type of change is uncalled for. And most of all non Trek
Hi all, at the moment i am really having fun with STO. I just finished my 5 day trial and started my retail account. I have made a Federation character, completed a number of missions and have had my ship destroyed 3 times. Maybe it is the way I play the game? but I am happy with the way death is in the game and personally do not see any need for it to be changed.
Thanx Cryptic
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in the mind to agree to a respawn that makes you have a crew regen time as it stands at present and say only 20% hull making one wate for that regen use abilitys such as kirk has can any one say scottie? ect but any more than that type of change is uncalled for. And most of all non Trek
You just made me realize the crux of my point. That is lets say there was a penalty of loosing crew or taking longer to regen or something like that. What would this add to the fun of the game? Nothing. I would just have to wait LONGER to get back to completing the mission that I died in. What fun is that?
Because I read a lot "most players are against/for death penalty" without really knowing, I got curious and just started counting on this thread. I only included those posters of who I was pretty sure where they stood. [..]
For what it is worth, I'm for a DP as long as it is part of a comprehensive system which accounts for the different variables of the game. If it is just a pure DP - a token one at that, then I see no need for one. I would rather have some sort of survivor bonus reward. Moreover I would prefer that instances simply reset if someone dies and if someone is in a group and they die they can't rejoin the battle. That is my preference for this game given it is casual oriented and I dont see that changing anytime soon. If the game was targeted at a different player base then I would fully be in support of a harsh DP.
Anyway, nice work on the analysis for this thread. :cool:
Thanks for the update! I have enjoyed the game so far and wonder what is in store for those who stay to Boldy Go...
DP: I learned this game as a DP free thing. I often amazed to my fellows that this was so. I saw a mention for a Guild Wars type DP that was slightly more appealing if at all, since I was familiar with that and felt it was manageable (just not sure how it would be implemented in STO). I also play Eve, the other extreme of DP and I don't think this game would suit that end of the DP spectrum. So why worry about that now? I don't think DP is the thing the devs should be focusing on.
Things I could never understand some things about STO:
Corkscrewed: When units are located at a greater angle than your space ship can go results in this phenomenon.
I understand the need for a controlled space but can we please raise the angle to something closer to straight up and down?
Rommies should be next, after klinks are finished.
As far as the death penalty...PLEASE think outside the box here and go for a death CONSEQUENCE....
Use death as a vehicle to launch into a series of immersive minigames that bring the bridge and your ship interior to life in a COMPLETELY star trek fashion...
Here is what I mean:
Before your ship blows up, it gets "incappped". During this time, as an engineer you would play a QUICK, fast, fun, minigame to avert a warp core breach, or bring life support back online...these would be done on "consoles" on the bridge or in engineering. If you succeed, you get back into the fight with a small energy buff - if you fail, well the ship goes kaboom, and you respawn with a debuff...
As a tactical officer, your minigames could be things like managing internal security system to repel boarders, or disarming a chroniton torpedo warhead that had pierced the hull, but not yet exploded...
A science officer could use a console minigame to navigate the ship out of some anomaly that that last volley of photons blasted your ship into, or a minigame to triage or heal the crew, etc.
It should be TRIVIAL to come up with 5 or so, fast, fun minigames, for each class based on exmaples from the series' of ways to save the bacon...then they would be triggered at random. Faster you complete the minigame successfully, faster you get back into the fight...
Fact is the episodes/series are full of countless examples of heroic effort by the captain and/or bridge officers to due various things to save the ship or the crew after things have all gone wrong. This is star trek. This would be immersion. PLEASE do NOT dumb the game down to some stupid, pay x amt of energy credits, sink that is unimaginative and pass up this kind of a chance to generate REAL, exciting, immersive content where your ship and your crew depend on your minigame actions....and those consoles we see in our interiors actually are USED for something...lol
hire this person best idea i have heard yet...love everything about it cryptic listen here this is a good idea smacking you in the face
I don't like the idea of a death penalty. I feel that the humiliation of losing a battle is more than enough of a "death penalty". I'm all for a difficulty slider.
As far as playable races, I would like to be able to play as the Jem'Hadar who were the military arm of the Dominion. Also, I want to see the 5 Xindi species (Aquatic, Arboreal, Insectoid, Primate, Reptilian) as playable races too.
Exploration & diplomatic missions with more voiced dialogue would be a big plus in my view.
I also say NO to DP. I already try to avoid death as it is and I've never encountered another player with suicide run tactics. I would also like to see more interactive elements on the space stations like having .holodecks and more player to player interaction at the bars/cantinas. Side missions involving non-factions would be cool too, perhaps old school TOS humor injected into it as well. Q-continuum involvement would be interesting too. I say ditto to expanded bridge and starship interiors as well.
Firstly a big thanks to Cryptic for all of their hard work and effort in keeping the game moving forward and slowly improving things in the STO universe. :cool:
Overaall I am addicted but a few improvements would be welcome, such as making ship combat truly 3-D by removing the vertical rotation limit of about +/-45 degrees.
In most of the other games that I play they ship with a game editor which allows the creation of new content. I appreciate that this may be difficult with an MMO but a ground and space mission creator would allow the community to create and play test content of its own, and then vote on whether the mision is worht moving to the full universe?
Just a thought There is a huge and talented community here with in depth knowledge of the Star Trek Universe, give us the tools and we will create more content
Swear I read somewhere that the main reason they did the flying limitation was due to getting really disoriented during play, if that's the case all they need is a small button on the HUD to make the ship reorient itself, bam done solved.
Rommies should be next, after klinks are finished.
As far as the death penalty...PLEASE think outside the box here and go for a death CONSEQUENCE....
Use death as a vehicle to launch into a series of immersive minigames that bring the bridge and your ship interior to life in a COMPLETELY star trek fashion...
Here is what I mean:
Before your ship blows up, it gets "incappped". During this time, as an engineer you would play a QUICK, fast, fun, minigame to avert a warp core breach, or bring life support back online...these would be done on "consoles" on the bridge or in engineering. If you succeed, you get back into the fight with a small energy buff - if you fail, well the ship goes kaboom, and you respawn with a debuff...
As a tactical officer, your minigames could be things like managing internal security system to repel boarders, or disarming a chroniton torpedo warhead that had pierced the hull, but not yet exploded...
A science officer could use a console minigame to navigate the ship out of some anomaly that that last volley of photons blasted your ship into, or a minigame to triage or heal the crew, etc.
It should be TRIVIAL to come up with 5 or so, fast, fun minigames, for each class based on exmaples from the series' of ways to save the bacon...then they would be triggered at random. Faster you complete the minigame successfully, faster you get back into the fight...
Fact is the episodes/series are full of countless examples of heroic effort by the captain and/or bridge officers to due various things to save the ship or the crew after things have all gone wrong. This is star trek. This would be immersion. PLEASE do NOT dumb the game down to some stupid, pay x amt of energy credits, sink that is unimaginative and pass up this kind of a chance to generate REAL, exciting, immersive content where your ship and your crew depend on your minigame actions....and those consoles we see in our interiors actually are USED for something...lol
GENIUS. Cryptic for ALL OF OUR sakes hire this guy. This is completely awesome.
awesome want it all and the Romulans to play next TRIBBLE all the rest the Romulans would be the best that way there are 2 bad/evil races to play against the huge selection of federation races to play good start love the state of the game think your going in the right direction. I would love to see auto fire as well as better explorer mission which I like to do as it is make them better no telling how much for fun they could be
you know your right i am going to complain because they already missed a date for an update proof is on ign.com
Not a common mmo player i see, not a whole lot can be set in stone for an update. You have no idea what tasks they have to do and how random some things are Soon after a release, so grab some tissue dry that baby face up.
I guess we are going to wait yet another month before something new is released, this is becoming tiresome, and ridiculous. And soon a huge fail. Im starting to wonder if they released the game too early?
Rommies should be next, after klinks are finished.
As far as the death penalty...PLEASE think outside the box here and go for a death CONSEQUENCE....
Use death as a vehicle to launch into a series of immersive minigames that bring the bridge and your ship interior to life in a COMPLETELY star trek fashion...
...
I really like this Ideas! Reminds me of Data in an TNG Season one episode, when he rearranged Iso-Chips with superhuman speed... would make a nice minigame, too
You just made me realize the crux of my point. That is lets say there was a penalty of loosing crew or taking longer to regen or something like that. What would this add to the fun of the game? Nothing. I would just have to wait LONGER to get back to completing the mission that I died in. What fun is that?
Amen bro..... you get it thank you.
But now let my evil twin speak in support of dps in all walks of life
Next time you dial 911.. I think there should be a mini game before you get any help. This would help relax you before you speak to the operator and take some of the work load off of the 911 operator. Perhaps when you need to use the bathroom in a hurry, it would be entertaining for you to recite all the countries of the world and their capitals. This would help improve global cultural awareness. Hey, how about when you try to watch your favorite trek episode ... we have a simon like remote that you have to keep getting the color pattern right to keep the show on the right language. If you get it wrong, the language shifts for 2 minutes before you can change it back. This would not only improve peoples short term memory, but also help negate communication barriers. I am in favor of these solutions to my personal issues, and imposing them on everyone else would make me happy.
My point being through these absurd analogies... any time wasting DP is idiotic, selfish, and just plain rude to force on someone.... especially when you launched the product with out it. Fix and expand the content please.
I understand it is still early for this game. So props for making it work so well. Really hasn't been a bad experience. The only thing that bothers me is the repetitiveness. That mini game thing would be awesome but incorporating it with live game play is what I'm worried about. I always play this game with my Best bud who is in the army, and many times i need his help. if hes gone for 5 minutes playing a mini game then that would suck.
So lol it would have to be a 60 second minigame or something. Which Gets you going and would make you delve deeper into STO universe.
Ok so now you need an OMG factor for pvp and missions.
quick example:
PvP: A Large Battle on a world. Objectives could be ... Defend the Outpost against oncoming Klingons..
or a resource battle. Having a ship 5 guys could get into that could fly above a base and they could give
air support. Just some OMG factors. reviews would go through the roof if you could achieve this.
For the love of Scotty, please please please please please please please please please please please PLEASE (!) DO NOT PUT AUTO ATTACK IN THE GAME.
It ruined Stargte Worlds and it will ruin Star Trek.
Remember, the people begging for these changes have came from games where you swing a sword or a club. Projectile weapons should be fired when the man with his finger on the trigger decides to pull it! NOT when the somputer wants it pulled. I bought a lifetime subscription to the game that was released a few weeks ago. If it had auto-attack I would have done no such thing and if it's added I will be cancelling and pursuing a refund due to you overly changing the product beyond what it originally was.
Trust me on this. Shooter fans do NOT want auto attack. Lazy, gold farming, WoW converts want it. :mad:
Comments
You forgot to add me as one of the nos
ok enough with the theatrics...there are a few things i would like to point out...and i thank whoever took the time to count all posts about death penaties...(above)
ok i think death penaties are ok for this game i mean in pvp probably not the greatest idea(of course this is just because i seem to always get destroyed bye the empire) but in PvE i think it is a good idea so you just cant charge in weapons blazing to every encounter and do it over and over and over until you get the job done...
just some food for thought unless you want to play this way...
my proposed soulution is taking the credits idea just allitle further...
pay X amount to respawn your ship, and when you run out of money perhaps make a debt system where you go into negitives...
Just an idea...
What I mean is, I don't want to get slapped with a crippling combat penalty because the enemy signal contact that just chased me down also spawned me into a firefight with enemies 30+ levels higher than me. I do not want to suffer from a major debuff because an NPC boss has bodyguards that respawn when klilled and completely ignore shields, particularly if my respawn point is inside their attack range. I do not enjoy coming within a hair's breadth of defeating a challenging enemy, failing only because I was a milisecond too slow, or a single miss or critical hit happened at the wrong time, and then being slapped with a 75% reduction to all of my stats as a consolation prize for putting up a good fight.
What I fear when I hear 'death penalty' is this:
"Thanks for trying our game, buddy, but why don't you go @#*( off for the next 5-10 minutes? Your failure to complete this mission after 30-45 solid minutes of work is not enough punishment for losing one fight, so we're going to make it harder for you to make up for the lost time. If you thought that fight was a challenge before, let's see you try it with all your stats cut in half, sucker!"
With the current state of the game, there are plenty of ways to die that the player can do little or nothing to prevent. As long as a player could unexpectedly die to insanely-high level wandering ships in deep space encounters, or an enemy group spawned for a 5-man party when the other party members were sent to a different instance, or anything along those lines, a death penalty on top of it will feel like a slap in the face. Sure, some of these issues aren't as much of a problem once you're capped, but an MMO can't survive without continually pulling in new players, and those players will have to climb the ranks and feel the pain. Kicking them while they're down won't make them want to stay.
Not really... You posted while I was composing my statistics, so your post wasn't there yet when I counted...
I'll add you later.
For the record, there already is a death penalty: you are forced to wait out a short timer, then respawn at a respawn point and return to battle. It's not much, but it is a penalty.
The biggest problem with implementing a harsher death penalty is that the game isn't designed for it. Dropping one in now would make the game more frustrating, not more "meaningful".
Does that mean a harsher death penalty wouldn't make sense in the future? No. If the game design supports it, then it might well be the right way to go.
But short of rewriting significant aspects of the game, including fixing major bugs, stability issues and how instancing/autoteaming and other key features currently work, grafting on some sort of gratuitous punishment for being defeated would almost certainly irritate and alienate a majority of players, including those who currently think it would be a good idea.
The risks are many and the rewards are few, at a time when STO's success in the marketplace is not assured.
Effects on all aspects of the game would have to be considered and designed for. The potential for major dysfunction is high, particularly for PvP, which is arguably tolerable under the current regime, but could quickly become intolerable and unattractive to players.
Does that mean Cryptic can't implement a harsher death penalty that will ultimately please the community? Of course not. It can be done.
However, devoting resources to something like that when so many fundamental aspects of the game are grievously bugged, unstable and unreliable seems irresponsible.
Implementing a truly "meaningful" death penalty is not a trivial task. It will require significant developmental resources that would probably be better deployed on other issues. On the other hand, just dropping one in would guarantee a raft of new problems affecting all aspects of game operations.
Imagine the effect on GMs when players start submitting tickets demanding compensation for "unfair" deaths caused by game bugs. That alone could sink the support team, again, at a time when there are much more important problems to resolve.
Why not fix the game to function as designed so people can actually experience how it should work first?
This is a test. I urge Cryptic to exercise extreme caution in considering what may end up being a leap off the NGE cliff, and not to proceed with any drastic game changes that have such catastrophic potential without being absolutely sure the real Community of STO players (most of whom don't bother with the forums) will be happy with them.
I have to disagree with you on this. I think the reason we differ is because we view the reason for playing the game differently.
To say that we are getting everything now, now, now and refusing to pay for it indicates that you don't believe my time is worth anything. You assume that the only way to pay for something is for there to be a risk involved in getting it.
That is not true. If I wanted a game that required risk for reward, there are tons of previously mentioned many times (i.e. EVE Online) that do that VERY well.
I believe, and I hope and think many others agree, that STO is meant to be an adventure in the Star Trek universe that is just plain fun. It is geared toward the casual Star Trek fan.
I am getting "stuff" in STO because I spend my time playing it, not because I am taking a risk of loosing something. That is a plus plus or win win instead of a risk / reward type system. I can log in, spend some time and enjoy the rewards without any risk of feeling like I spent time doing something and then lost it all because I made a mistake.
Thank you for taking the time to do this analysis. Despite your disclaimers it is interesting to see what the results are.
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If I wanted EVE I would play EVE.
I am repeating myself from my earlier post, but that is because I don't want it to get lost in the volume of replies here.
The Star Trek Universe is about fun. I have read posts in this thread about repair costs and such. In Star Trek did you ever see Kirk or Picard having to worry about repairing their ships? They just took them to the local star base and got all fixed up.
In fact all through the show DS 9 over and over people bring their ships to DS9 and get them repaired. I got the feeling they never had to pay for anything.
Picard said many times to many people how they had done away with money. It was all about making the best of your self.
Star Trek Online should, and currently is, about playing and not day to day living. We explore, we fight, we learn we play. We don't grind. Anyone who is grinding in STO, doesn't get it yet. It is a game of fun.
If you want hard work and penalties, go play EVE Online. As a life time subscriber (didn't even have to think about buying the life time subscription) I hope STO continues along its current path and doesn't try to be what the other MMOs are. Keep it fun, not work!!
To this i agreee it needs fun not repair. as to ships dont just pop back maby but let me point out something.
The ships you mention everyone looks at are the major players but least you forget there are thousands of ships that get blasted all the time! Ok Ok maby a bit over board ther on the number but look at the dominion war? Wolf 359? Many in Voyager. Granted in TOS not that many but i think anyone can see the time frame here this is set past even that. And for reference to ships just poping in to view and blowing up to be fine alow me to point out a few....
Tos admiral kirk Steals a fed ship (Enterprise). Blow it up capture a bop (Bounty). Time travels and then sinks that one. Faces a jury and gets handed a brand new ship and Told keep up the good work
Picard crashed the enterprise D. Time travels. Brings back kirk temporal violation ther as well thow not as bad as kirk. Gets handed a brand new ship enterprise -E! then time travel again here gets borg infested thats damage there for ya. fixed again FREE. Then he decides to ram its prow in to a romulan and o water its fixed again. But wate im not finished....
Everyone stated thow it was such a question with worf geting on enterprise and first thing how is the defiant dreaded loss there but let me as a trek fan point it was not the defiant in fact. It was the Sam Palo taken out of a federation shipyard and renamed the defiant and first given to sisko after the defiant was destroyed in a attack of breen energy dampening weapons in the assault of the dominion. A failed one of all three empires.
Last but not least Voyager anyone remember year of hell? By raming the voyager in to the time ship it caused a temperal reversion instantly replacing the voyager with a fresh one and the year of hell never took place.
not to mention several alternet realities wormholes transporter accedents cloaning and least i forget next generations all good things and Q. The list is endless so for all the once saying star trek is in need of a DP any trek fan will see it is not needed anf the timer is fine. And for all those that try and flame me i would be in the mind to agree to a respawn that makes you have a crew regen time as it stands at present and say only 20% hull making one wate for that regen use abilitys such as kirk has can any one say scottie? ect but any more than that type of change is uncalled for. And most of all non Trek
Thanx Cryptic
You just made me realize the crux of my point. That is lets say there was a penalty of loosing crew or taking longer to regen or something like that. What would this add to the fun of the game? Nothing. I would just have to wait LONGER to get back to completing the mission that I died in. What fun is that?
For what it is worth, I'm for a DP as long as it is part of a comprehensive system which accounts for the different variables of the game. If it is just a pure DP - a token one at that, then I see no need for one. I would rather have some sort of survivor bonus reward. Moreover I would prefer that instances simply reset if someone dies and if someone is in a group and they die they can't rejoin the battle. That is my preference for this game given it is casual oriented and I dont see that changing anytime soon. If the game was targeted at a different player base then I would fully be in support of a harsh DP.
Anyway, nice work on the analysis for this thread. :cool:
DP: I learned this game as a DP free thing. I often amazed to my fellows that this was so. I saw a mention for a Guild Wars type DP that was slightly more appealing if at all, since I was familiar with that and felt it was manageable (just not sure how it would be implemented in STO). I also play Eve, the other extreme of DP and I don't think this game would suit that end of the DP spectrum. So why worry about that now? I don't think DP is the thing the devs should be focusing on.
Things I could never understand some things about STO:
Corkscrewed: When units are located at a greater angle than your space ship can go results in this phenomenon.
I understand the need for a controlled space but can we please raise the angle to something closer to straight up and down?
10K engagement range?
I look forward to seeing things as the evolve.
hire this person best idea i have heard yet...love everything about it cryptic listen here this is a good idea smacking you in the face
As far as playable races, I would like to be able to play as the Jem'Hadar who were the military arm of the Dominion. Also, I want to see the 5 Xindi species (Aquatic, Arboreal, Insectoid, Primate, Reptilian) as playable races too.
Exploration & diplomatic missions with more voiced dialogue would be a big plus in my view.
Summary:
Total YES: 109 posters
Total NO: 290 posters
Ration no to yes: ±2.66 to 1.
Division: ±27.3% say yes, ±72,7% say no.
Full details:
Death penalty: the statistics
Firstly a big thanks to Cryptic for all of their hard work and effort in keeping the game moving forward and slowly improving things in the STO universe. :cool:
Overaall I am addicted but a few improvements would be welcome, such as making ship combat truly 3-D by removing the vertical rotation limit of about +/-45 degrees.
In most of the other games that I play they ship with a game editor which allows the creation of new content. I appreciate that this may be difficult with an MMO but a ground and space mission creator would allow the community to create and play test content of its own, and then vote on whether the mision is worht moving to the full universe?
Just a thought
Rear Admiral Fenris
Agree 100%, this guy has an awesomw idea and you should take advantage of his genius.
GENIUS. Cryptic for ALL OF OUR sakes hire this guy. This is completely awesome.
I really like this Ideas! Reminds me of Data in an TNG Season one episode, when he rearranged Iso-Chips with superhuman speed... would make a nice minigame, too
Amen bro..... you get it thank you.
But now let my evil twin speak in support of dps in all walks of life
Next time you dial 911.. I think there should be a mini game before you get any help. This would help relax you before you speak to the operator and take some of the work load off of the 911 operator. Perhaps when you need to use the bathroom in a hurry, it would be entertaining for you to recite all the countries of the world and their capitals. This would help improve global cultural awareness. Hey, how about when you try to watch your favorite trek episode ... we have a simon like remote that you have to keep getting the color pattern right to keep the show on the right language. If you get it wrong, the language shifts for 2 minutes before you can change it back. This would not only improve peoples short term memory, but also help negate communication barriers. I am in favor of these solutions to my personal issues, and imposing them on everyone else would make me happy.
My point being through these absurd analogies... any time wasting DP is idiotic, selfish, and just plain rude to force on someone.... especially when you launched the product with out it. Fix and expand the content please.
So lol it would have to be a 60 second minigame or something. Which Gets you going and would make you delve deeper into STO universe.
Ok so now you need an OMG factor for pvp and missions.
quick example:
PvP: A Large Battle on a world. Objectives could be ... Defend the Outpost against oncoming Klingons..
or a resource battle. Having a ship 5 guys could get into that could fly above a base and they could give
air support. Just some OMG factors. reviews would go through the roof if you could achieve this.
God Speed Cryptic!
It ruined Stargte Worlds and it will ruin Star Trek.
Remember, the people begging for these changes have came from games where you swing a sword or a club. Projectile weapons should be fired when the man with his finger on the trigger decides to pull it! NOT when the somputer wants it pulled. I bought a lifetime subscription to the game that was released a few weeks ago. If it had auto-attack I would have done no such thing and if it's added I will be cancelling and pursuing a refund due to you overly changing the product beyond what it originally was.
Trust me on this. Shooter fans do NOT want auto attack. Lazy, gold farming, WoW converts want it. :mad: