For a while, I felt as though you did not care about the users, largely due to the copy/paste downtime messages and lack of patch notes, but you're coming along nicely. You have taken on a project of massive proportions with a fanbase that can be at least as rabid as any. You're getting there.
I've always said that STO was not finished when it came out, but that there's great potential. I'm beginning to have faith that it may indeed reach that potential one day, and that's something many Trek fans have awaited for a long time. I've dreamed of an online Star Trek game since before some of the series even came out. I am glad to be here for this one.
I've been doing my part submitting bug reports. Happy to see they're going to get squashed on the other end. Once I run out of those, maybe I'll get to the suggestions aspect.
The State-of-the-Game marketing wise really sucks at the moment. What about the early adopters - loyal longtime supporters? You know, us - all the people still on their first 30 days and the ones that paid a premium for STO. Come on guys, it is wrong - really, really wrong!
Absolutely loving the idea of a difficulty slider, anything to make those stupid cheesy keldons and their magical photonic galor death squads a little less hair tearingly frustrating when doing them solo
For non-combat missions, I'd love to see some actual conversations in the vein of adventure games rather than the fairly limited "tell me about x, tell me about y, tell me what I have to do"
If there's a death penalty, PLEASE stop the resetting of enemy target health when you die. Thats pretty damned annoying now but if you get that PLUS an XP deduction (or whatever the penalty will be), it'll be immensely annoying
Oh and ship interiors: Awesome IF there's something to do in them. I'd happily take a crew morale building exercise, enemy boarding action or something but just decorative ship interior would be a waste.
Absolutely loving the idea of a difficulty slider, anything to make those stupid cheesy keldons and their magical photonic galor death squads a little less hair tearingly frustrating when doing them solo
For non-combat missions, I'd love to see some actual conversations in the vein of adventure games rather than the fairly limited "tell me about x, tell me about y, tell me what I have to do"
If there's a death penalty, PLEASE stop the resetting of enemy target health when you die. Thats pretty damned annoying now but if you get that PLUS an XP deduction (or whatever the penalty will be), it'll be immensely annoying
Oh and ship interiors: Awesome IF there's something to do in them. I'd happily take a crew morale building exercise, enemy boarding action or something but just decorative ship interior would be a waste.
Important part of the difficulty slider is increased difficulty needs to = increased rewards.
Take note of those bridge doors, looks like the giants had not arrived yet either!
Another poster noticed that the 30 days was almost up, and then poof! A new mystical magical statement about the game, one that sets everything right, right?
Wrong! Wrong, wrong wrong.
You see, Cryptic has a penchant for lying. As can be seen in what they promised as a finished game, and the beta we got. Now they claim that the stuff that was supposed to be in the game when it was released, is some sort of "new idea". Do I get a reach-around with this?
* Respec
* Death Penalty
* Difficulty Slider
* More open auto-fire
* Replayable missions
* Improving Memory Alpha
* Fixing those Commodity missions
Let's take a look at our "promises", starting with the Respec.
Pure ignorance, in its finest form. A skill system, with no "undo"? That wasn't too bad, until you threw a cap on it. Didn't quite think that one through, did we? (Seems to be a common problem.)
Death Penalty: You have to be kidding me right? In a game where it is so hard to die, you are going to punish me for it? I guess I deserve punishment if your cut-and-paste missions are killing me. Though I feel for the people who actually do the "Enemy signals", since it seems you didn't think about spawning points. But hey, why fix the broken stuff when you can just add more things to break, right?
Difficulty Slider: How about a "fixing slider"? You know, one that I can slide that causes you guys to actually work on real issues? Or does it add more intelligence to my bridge officers, though the name suggests otherwise.
Auto-fire: Another half thought here, huh?
"I have an idea!!" Joe Cryptic shouted.
"What's that Joe?" I responded hesitantly.
"Well, I have this here game that is full of bugs..." he confessed slyly
"You mean that one you squeaked out, by saying it was "head-start" instead of beta?"
"That's the one! Anyway, check this out. I think it would be a great idea to have a super technologically advanced culture that has to hit a button every-time they want to do something." he resounded with a grin
After a short pause I realized what game was being made.
"The Jetsons Joe? That doesn't sound like too much fun."
I am not making sprockets. And while I say yay that the thought has surfaced, perhaps a new resume/worker should be on the platter.
Re-playable missions: Meh, chicken feed. This is what we call "Nothing better, nothing worse"
Improving Memory Alpha: This whole "Memory Alpha" has to be the biggest inside joke over there. I don't even want to start with this half assed attempt at a crafting system. Someone had a "big-idea", well there is a big difference between a "big-idea" and a "good-idea", take notes. This whole mess needs to be removed from the game.
1: You put the system in a "higher" level area. Which, with your new hinted DP is going to make the newbs all happy inside. (Remember the 20+ Romulan gang bangs?)
2: You can only make TRIBBLE
3: You can only make confusing TRIBBLE
4: You can only make expensive confusing TRIBBLE
Memory Alpha needs an TRIBBLE.
Commodity Missions: Are these the "Help my greedy TRIBBLE, I need shield generator" missions? If so, I hope that by "fix" you mean "remove". Those are the biggest waste of time ever, considering it takes more time to fly to someone that sells that TRIBBLE than it does to click the little "drop" button in the quest log. Or, even better, the little swirly "I'm outta here" button next to the compass.
In conclusion, state of the game? State of the game? I thought we were still in beta? You mean it is a "real" game now? And perhaps your community would not be so "writhing" if you would use your hard earned diplomas/educations/IP and made a game with some content. You are taking the Star Trek IP and wasting it like Denise Crosby, wait a few seasons and you will come crawling back too. Though I doubt they will put you in an episode, your dad can't sing. (Of course, they let Mr. Nimoy come back...err paid him to.)
only one comment: death penalty = too bad, actually in pvp federals dies 6 vs 2 Klingons, i means when a federal dies 6 times can kill 2 klingons if he's lucky...so for us playing as federation faction this is not a great notice...
Well, it's nice to know that they're keeping track and taking note of what's wrong and what the players want to see. Here's hoping it goes off without a hitch. ^^
I owe you guys an apology. I've been mad about a great deal of game aspects, but this post is the kind of attitude that makes me forget all that, makes me patient for what's to come. This game has potential, and keep up with this kind of attitude in everything you do, we will see this evolve into something amazing... still need to scale down the interiors though haha!
You guys have won me back, but I will be watching ^^ Oh, and fix the DS9 uniforms!!
There are some folks in this game that keep lamenting, if only they did this, STO would be more like EVE...
I HATED EVE!!!!!!!!
Please dont make this game more like EVE. STO is special becoz it DOESNT have a death penalty. EVE sucks becoz it does. WOW has a very limited death penalty (which Tlil expands on in next post) and I played that game happily for four years. The only thing that drew me away from WOW was that new content wasnt being delivered quickly enuff. Cant wait for respec and everything else you are doing but....
PLEASE DONT BRING IN A DEATH PENALTY!!!!!
A death penalty penalises the weaker players and makes it harder for those that play solo. It rewards gankers and organised groups that prey on these people. I see enough of this in real life - I dont need to see it in Science Fiction Gaming. If a few high end players get bored and leave they do so in small numbers. If large numbers of weaker players find it too hard to progress then it weakens the game.
If you are set on the path of rewarding gankers then why not bring in a KILL BONUS. Turn it around. Instead of penalising the loser, reward the winner.
UJIE
Lifetime Subscriber (DDO Pre-Order)
45 Borg Fed Science (USS Locutus of Borg)
14 Gorn Engineer (IKS Gorn Hungry)
WOW doesnt have a death penalty and I played that game happily for four years.
You played for 4 years and think that WOW doesn't have a death penalty? Are you sure you played WOW?
If you died you either had to travel back to your body or were rezzed. You also took a hit to your armour, weapons and inventory that you had to pay to repair. That's the penalty. It cost you time and/or money to continue what you were doing to the strength you were doing it.
I would prefer a death penalty as it makes it more of an interesting challenge, but one that was sensible. Damage to equipment that has to be paid for would be acceptable, so would a reduction in power during your current instance.
Ur right Til. There was a penalty after all and u described it accurately. I have no problem with this type of "penalty" tho as I really dont even see it as a penalty - just say... consequences... In my fear that STO is becoming more like EVE I appear to have got rather emotional. What I do strongly object to is the EVE concept of losing everything when u die. I dont want that kind of reality creeping into my escapism. Thanks for pointing out that I was raging blindly.
nobody wants a death penalty that i have spoken to in game, who the hell cares of a small group wants a death penalty just so they can make everyone else be like them and run around with no dps and all shields.
i see klingons all the time in pvp who are hard as hell to kill but can't hit back enough to do any damage, does STO really want the game to be like that?
me and the entire fleet i am in voted NO to the DP and that may only be 50 players or so but where there is 50 dedicated players to NOT having a DP, there is a lot lot more.
and on a side note, this game is not EVE, i hated EVE and if the EVE lovers want this game to be like it so much, they can leave and go play it.
Add my name to those who don't like the idea of a death penalty in the game especially in the harder levels. If I start loosing all my cool stuff I got because of this stupid death penalty debate, I will not be happy.
Put me down for a no when it comes to death penalty. The mild irritation of having to fly through your incredibly slow game back to where you were when you blew up is punishment enough.
Stop all the blankity-blank comparisons with other MMO's..."this should be like WoW" and "that should be like Eve" GEEESH!!!!! You want a game like the other MMO's, then by all means stop your whining and go play 'em!! Open your eyes and you will "get it"- this game is supposed to be unique, and is definitely moving that direction in many facets.
The folks at Cryptic have rolled out a good product in a timely manner. Period. Message to the Devs: Keep up the good work- just don't "kiddie-fy" things down the road and keep deleting the gold-spammers on a regular basis...heh heh...
Before you do any thing I feel that Respec should come first and soon, the simplest way you can do that is just reset all the spec for the chars skillsfor every one, with few lines of code, and make it manatory when you reach Commander level, this my second MMO in my gaming life, i have made big mistakes in the game with spec with out know what i was doing and makeing big mistakes. so i Vote for respec right away thanks i am i see respec soon.
fourbearsstanding
I'm happy enough without a death penatly. Not every game has one, and as someone pointed out - this is escapism, so why make it extra painful?
Set an option that allows players to switch on death penalties and let those who claim they want it enjoy it to their hearts content. I would expect only the most vociferous amongst us would use it.
And that's a problem. Only people who don't want something complain about it, and it's usually the same people. Please consider those of us who normally can't be bothered to even log in on the foum as well as the career forum trolls
I just wish they would do more with the explore missions. Originally I was planning to stick to exploration, but it turned out to suck kinda badly. More diplomatic missions for exploration would help it a lot, as well as more variety for the new aliens, they all seem to be the same.
Glad to hear about all the great stuff coming down the pipe! Except for maybe the death penalty... However there was nothing in there about fixing the hopelessly broken CE fleet action or the daily pvp quests to get marks of honor...? I would just like to hear about major fixes first and foremost over new content. Other then that, keep up the great work guys!
unfortunately as I read it I couldn't help getting the feeling that this is the sort of post we should have seen pre launch. so much unfinished business there, busuness that should have been finished prior to launch.
and the statement about player determination of future content makes me think you folks have nothing in the pipeline beyond the items listed in the SOTG post.
the effort is highly appreciated, but the outlook is pretty bleak.
couple that with the slap in the face of Atari trying to milk the retail box with a price and sub discount barely 30 days in and I honestly see nothing but a last minute cash grab before reviews pretty much send STOL to the bargin bin and the steam 5 dollar game page.
do you see the issue here?
rosey dev promises at the same time the parent co is trying to recover as much cash as possible before the TRIBBLE hits the fan? did you folks think this would sooth our nerves?
its like the captain of the ship telling the passengers that everything is just fine while the crew and shareholders clammer into the lifeboats.
I love how they are marketing things that were promised in the release! I mean they could not even attach a fresh carrot to the string!
All I'm going to say about this post is that the author needs to learn that such cutting sarcasm is not going to get him listened to. Even though he's right about a couple of those points he mentioned, his manner is such that people will be focusing on that, rather than his points.
Reading that made my day, when I kill you in PvP (or anywhere) it should sting.
Another griefer heard from. Does it surprise anyone that this is the kind of person asking for DP? On the other hand, I 100% support Death Penalty in PVP only. That would resolve all issues I have with the system. Then the griefers would be satisfied and I'd never see the whining.
um I dont post on forums for games often but... I think i will on this since you say you are listining. Um I dont know about the rest of the community but a Death penelty is a no no for me. I dont like them one bit.
So here we have it. People who don't post on the forums are suddenly speaking up. Mayhaps Cryptic's method of deciding the DP issue didn't include everyone?
The State-of-the-Game marketing wise really sucks at the moment. What about the early adopters - loyal longtime supporters? You know, us - all the people still on their first 30 days and the ones that paid a premium for STO. Come on guys, it is wrong - really, really wrong!
My only comment here is, what the heck is .Spartan unhappy with? An entire paragraph to tell us he is unhappy, but he completely forgot to fill us in about what it is that has him unhappy. I blame teachers.
Set an option that allows players to switch on death penalties and let those who claim they want it enjoy it to their hearts content. I would expect only the most vociferous amongst us would use it.
And that's a problem. Only people who don't want something complain about it, and it's usually the same people. Please consider those of us who normally can't be bothered to even log in on the forum as well as the career forum trolls
Doomdark hit it squarely. The problem is the griefers want an option that makes everyone else get a DP, but they would turn it off for themselves if they could.
I fear that Cryptic has backed themselves into a corner. They listened to a few people on the Forums and took that to be a consensus. Even though it was heavily debated and there really never was any kind of consensus.
Now they see that there is a much bigger anti-DP crowd than they had thought, but they've made the statement, death penalties are coming. How can they back out now that they committed to the change? How do they admit they might have mis-read their community?
I recommend one of two options, maybe both:
Just swallow the pride and take the hit: "We blew it, we said we knew what you wanted, but we didn't have all of the facts."
Give the PvPers their Death Penalties. I know it will devolve into a grief fest in those instances, but since that is what MMO PVP is about to begin with, let them have it.
On a personal note, I want to thank Cryptic for making one of the most entertaining threads we've had. Amazing what a single statement in a posting will stir up
I am also enjoying not having a death penalty and hope Cryptic decides against it.
I never met a death penalty that I liked/found added to an mmo. At best they encourage players to spend more time PVPing (assuming the death penalty is limited/non-existent in PVP). At worst they are time/energy sinks which require hours of farming in order to experience end-game content and discourage players from grouping up and/or helping newer players learn to play.
I am also enjoying not having a death penalty and hope Cryptic decides against it.
I never met a death penalty that I liked/found added to an mmo. At best they encourage players to spend more time PVPing (assuming the death penalty is limited/non-existent in PVP). At worst they are time/energy sinks which require hours of farming in order to experience end-game content and discourage players from grouping up and/or helping newer players learn to play.
I agree, a death penalty doesn't belong in a game like this one. I could see them increasing the timeout timer so respawning takes a bit longer. but anything else would hurt the gameplay.
Why is it nothing about fixing or upgrading PvP is EVER mentioned. I was with STO from Beta, and made a very large Fleet, but i've let it die and stopped playing almost alltogether because of the complete and utter lack of viable PvP.
Comments
Can I have your stuff?
<Your faction standing with @Jeron_Luminourm got better.>
For a while, I felt as though you did not care about the users, largely due to the copy/paste downtime messages and lack of patch notes, but you're coming along nicely. You have taken on a project of massive proportions with a fanbase that can be at least as rabid as any. You're getting there.
I've always said that STO was not finished when it came out, but that there's great potential. I'm beginning to have faith that it may indeed reach that potential one day, and that's something many Trek fans have awaited for a long time. I've dreamed of an online Star Trek game since before some of the series even came out. I am glad to be here for this one.
I've been doing my part submitting bug reports. Happy to see they're going to get squashed on the other end.
For non-combat missions, I'd love to see some actual conversations in the vein of adventure games rather than the fairly limited "tell me about x, tell me about y, tell me what I have to do"
If there's a death penalty, PLEASE stop the resetting of enemy target health when you die. Thats pretty damned annoying now but if you get that PLUS an XP deduction (or whatever the penalty will be), it'll be immensely annoying
Oh and ship interiors: Awesome IF there's something to do in them. I'd happily take a crew morale building exercise, enemy boarding action or something but just decorative ship interior would be a waste.
Important part of the difficulty slider is increased difficulty needs to = increased rewards.
"More bridges/in-ship combat" Um, you mean like this:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Star_Trek_Online_Galaxy_Bridge_Screenshot.jpg
Take note of those bridge doors, looks like the giants had not arrived yet either!
Another poster noticed that the 30 days was almost up, and then poof! A new mystical magical statement about the game, one that sets everything right, right?
Wrong! Wrong, wrong wrong.
You see, Cryptic has a penchant for lying. As can be seen in what they promised as a finished game, and the beta we got. Now they claim that the stuff that was supposed to be in the game when it was released, is some sort of "new idea". Do I get a reach-around with this?
Let's take a look at our "promises", starting with the Respec.
Pure ignorance, in its finest form. A skill system, with no "undo"? That wasn't too bad, until you threw a cap on it. Didn't quite think that one through, did we? (Seems to be a common problem.)
Death Penalty: You have to be kidding me right? In a game where it is so hard to die, you are going to punish me for it? I guess I deserve punishment if your cut-and-paste missions are killing me. Though I feel for the people who actually do the "Enemy signals", since it seems you didn't think about spawning points. But hey, why fix the broken stuff when you can just add more things to break, right?
Difficulty Slider: How about a "fixing slider"? You know, one that I can slide that causes you guys to actually work on real issues? Or does it add more intelligence to my bridge officers, though the name suggests otherwise.
Auto-fire: Another half thought here, huh?
"I have an idea!!" Joe Cryptic shouted.
"What's that Joe?" I responded hesitantly.
"Well, I have this here game that is full of bugs..." he confessed slyly
"You mean that one you squeaked out, by saying it was "head-start" instead of beta?"
"That's the one! Anyway, check this out. I think it would be a great idea to have a super technologically advanced culture that has to hit a button every-time they want to do something." he resounded with a grin
After a short pause I realized what game was being made.
"The Jetsons Joe? That doesn't sound like too much fun."
I am not making sprockets. And while I say yay that the thought has surfaced, perhaps a new resume/worker should be on the platter.
Re-playable missions: Meh, chicken feed. This is what we call "Nothing better, nothing worse"
Improving Memory Alpha: This whole "Memory Alpha" has to be the biggest inside joke over there. I don't even want to start with this half assed attempt at a crafting system. Someone had a "big-idea", well there is a big difference between a "big-idea" and a "good-idea", take notes. This whole mess needs to be removed from the game.
1: You put the system in a "higher" level area. Which, with your new hinted DP is going to make the newbs all happy inside. (Remember the 20+ Romulan gang bangs?)
2: You can only make TRIBBLE
3: You can only make confusing TRIBBLE
4: You can only make expensive confusing TRIBBLE
Memory Alpha needs an TRIBBLE.
Commodity Missions: Are these the "Help my greedy TRIBBLE, I need shield generator" missions? If so, I hope that by "fix" you mean "remove". Those are the biggest waste of time ever, considering it takes more time to fly to someone that sells that TRIBBLE than it does to click the little "drop" button in the quest log. Or, even better, the little swirly "I'm outta here" button next to the compass.
In conclusion, state of the game? State of the game? I thought we were still in beta? You mean it is a "real" game now? And perhaps your community would not be so "writhing" if you would use your hard earned diplomas/educations/IP and made a game with some content. You are taking the Star Trek IP and wasting it like Denise Crosby, wait a few seasons and you will come crawling back too. Though I doubt they will put you in an episode, your dad can't sing. (Of course, they let Mr. Nimoy come back...err paid him to.)
You guys have won me back, but I will be watching ^^ Oh, and fix the DS9 uniforms!!
I HATED EVE!!!!!!!!
Please dont make this game more like EVE. STO is special becoz it DOESNT have a death penalty. EVE sucks becoz it does. WOW has a very limited death penalty (which Tlil expands on in next post) and I played that game happily for four years. The only thing that drew me away from WOW was that new content wasnt being delivered quickly enuff. Cant wait for respec and everything else you are doing but....
PLEASE DONT BRING IN A DEATH PENALTY!!!!!
A death penalty penalises the weaker players and makes it harder for those that play solo. It rewards gankers and organised groups that prey on these people. I see enough of this in real life - I dont need to see it in Science Fiction Gaming. If a few high end players get bored and leave they do so in small numbers. If large numbers of weaker players find it too hard to progress then it weakens the game.
If you are set on the path of rewarding gankers then why not bring in a KILL BONUS. Turn it around. Instead of penalising the loser, reward the winner.
UJIE
Lifetime Subscriber (DDO Pre-Order)
45 Borg Fed Science (USS Locutus of Borg)
14 Gorn Engineer (IKS Gorn Hungry)
If you died you either had to travel back to your body or were rezzed. You also took a hit to your armour, weapons and inventory that you had to pay to repair. That's the penalty. It cost you time and/or money to continue what you were doing to the strength you were doing it.
I would prefer a death penalty as it makes it more of an interesting challenge, but one that was sensible. Damage to equipment that has to be paid for would be acceptable, so would a reduction in power during your current instance.
i see klingons all the time in pvp who are hard as hell to kill but can't hit back enough to do any damage, does STO really want the game to be like that?
me and the entire fleet i am in voted NO to the DP and that may only be 50 players or so but where there is 50 dedicated players to NOT having a DP, there is a lot lot more.
and on a side note, this game is not EVE, i hated EVE and if the EVE lovers want this game to be like it so much, they can leave and go play it.
Stop all the blankity-blank comparisons with other MMO's..."this should be like WoW" and "that should be like Eve" GEEESH!!!!! You want a game like the other MMO's, then by all means stop your whining and go play 'em!! Open your eyes and you will "get it"- this game is supposed to be unique, and is definitely moving that direction in many facets.
The folks at Cryptic have rolled out a good product in a timely manner. Period. Message to the Devs: Keep up the good work- just don't "kiddie-fy" things down the road and keep deleting the gold-spammers on a regular basis...heh heh...
A life-time subscriber and not a single regret...
fourbearsstanding
Set an option that allows players to switch on death penalties and let those who claim they want it enjoy it to their hearts content. I would expect only the most vociferous amongst us would use it.
And that's a problem. Only people who don't want something complain about it, and it's usually the same people. Please consider those of us who normally can't be bothered to even log in on the foum as well as the career forum trolls
No dps... who the heck has been asking for those? are they mad?
unfortunately as I read it I couldn't help getting the feeling that this is the sort of post we should have seen pre launch. so much unfinished business there, busuness that should have been finished prior to launch.
and the statement about player determination of future content makes me think you folks have nothing in the pipeline beyond the items listed in the SOTG post.
the effort is highly appreciated, but the outlook is pretty bleak.
couple that with the slap in the face of Atari trying to milk the retail box with a price and sub discount barely 30 days in and I honestly see nothing but a last minute cash grab before reviews pretty much send STOL to the bargin bin and the steam 5 dollar game page.
do you see the issue here?
rosey dev promises at the same time the parent co is trying to recover as much cash as possible before the TRIBBLE hits the fan? did you folks think this would sooth our nerves?
its like the captain of the ship telling the passengers that everything is just fine while the crew and shareholders clammer into the lifeboats.
did you folks hire that PR firm yet?
I fear that Cryptic has backed themselves into a corner. They listened to a few people on the Forums and took that to be a consensus. Even though it was heavily debated and there really never was any kind of consensus.
Now they see that there is a much bigger anti-DP crowd than they had thought, but they've made the statement, death penalties are coming. How can they back out now that they committed to the change? How do they admit they might have mis-read their community?
I recommend one of two options, maybe both:
On a personal note, I want to thank Cryptic for making one of the most entertaining threads we've had. Amazing what a single statement in a posting will stir up
I never met a death penalty that I liked/found added to an mmo. At best they encourage players to spend more time PVPing (assuming the death penalty is limited/non-existent in PVP). At worst they are time/energy sinks which require hours of farming in order to experience end-game content and discourage players from grouping up and/or helping newer players learn to play.
I agree, a death penalty doesn't belong in a game like this one. I could see them increasing the timeout timer so respawning takes a bit longer. but anything else would hurt the gameplay.