I will give you a great example of WHY we dont need a DP when, in fact, we already HAVE ONE:
I was doing an explore mission (I am LC 9). Anyways, I get the generic "kill 5 patrols" thing and I am all like "cool, i like blowing stuff up" so off I go.
First 4 patrols are all escorts. 3 at a time, a bit tough for my escort but a nice little fight, never get below 50% hull.
The last patrol is a battleship. "Ok" I think, "Different tactics, run and gun he cant hit what he cant catch"
Well he had a tractor beam. "ok, eat this" I think as I launch barrage after barrage of plasma torps on him.
Its a tough fight, a long fight, a GREAT fight and I love it! We both get down to about 13% hull...Im tense, Im happy, this is great! I GET BLOWN UP!!!
And I respwan on the other side of the map, and my enemy has instantly rehealed to full health.
Now, you tell me HOW this ISNT a DP....go ahead, and I mean the serious players not the well organized Goonfleet campaign that was shown to exist yesterday.
Tell me how an enemy instantly going back to 100% and me getting respawned on the other side of the map isnt a DP
I will give you a great example of WHY we dont need a DP when, in fact, we already HAVE ONE:
I was doing an explore mission (I am LC 9). Anyways, I get the generic "kill 5 patrols" thing and I am all like "cool, i like blowing stuff up" so off I go.
First 4 patrols are all escorts. 3 at a time, a bit tough for my escort but a nice little fight, never get below 50% hull.
The last patrol is a battleship. "Ok" I think, "Different tactics, run and gun he cant hit what he cant catch"
Well he had a tractor beam. "ok, eat this" I think as I launch barrage after barrage of plasma torps on him.
Its a tough fight, a long fight, a GREAT fight and I love it! We both get down to about 13% hull...Im tense, Im happy, this is great! I GET BLOWN UP!!!
And I respwan on the other side of the map, and my enemy has instantly rehealed to full health.
Now, you tell me HOW this ISNT a DP....go ahead, and I mean the serious players not the well organized Goonfleet campaign that was shown to exist yesterday.
Tell me how an enemy instantly going back to 100% and me getting respawned on the other side of the map isnt a DP
Fair enough. And if that happened every time I'd be cool with it.. but I've had alot of fights where I admittedly got blown up for my own stupidity, I came back kicked in full impluse and by the time I was back they were still at 50% heath. If it's been changed that they regen to full after you die, I'm alot less worried about just respawning then.
Fair enough. And if that happened every time I'd be cool with it.. but I've had alot of fights where I admittedly got blown up for my own stupidity, I came back kicked in full impluse and by the time I was back they were still at 50% heath. If it's been changed that they regen to full after you die, I'm alot less worried about just respawning then.
If there's still mines layin around the map, they count as allied forces and the mob won't regen right off the bat.
Death Penalty should be tied to content sliders (which they ARE adding, go Craig!).
If I want to have dumb fun with friends and don't mind, say, little to no skill points or drops, I should be able to go no DP and zerg (and TRY TO DIE for KICKS) with friends.
Meanwhile, rewards should be tied to the content slider.
No risk, no reward. I can accept that. But give me the option to have no risk and no reward.
Great update to the future of STO. I have been slowly moving through the game just a few hours a week. Glad to hear that the content will pretty much stay ahead of my play speed.
I think some people need to get multiple forms of entertainment. Blowing through 80 hours of content in, well, 80 hours is just asking for sadness at the end. It's like eating all your halloween candy on the first night. Big ole sugar rush, but the next day, you're sick as a dog.
The monthly subscription rate is less than two movie tickets, but some seem to think that it entitles them to 24/7 content of endless cool stuff.
Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest as the boards sometimes seem to be driven by a lot of whiners.
I think there are many areas of improvement for the devs, but from the sounds of this update, they are taking a hard look at it.
Those wanting to argue, realize that for every opinion about something (DP) there is likely an equal and opposite (and valid) opinion from another player and of course Cryptic can't make both sets of players happy. Just live with it and play the game.
OK, how did I start ranting again? This was meant to be a thank you post...
I appreciate the hard work and dedication put in by the Cryptic team and I enjoy the game. Please keep making it better.
I'm gonna go ahead and add my voice to the "Death Penalty is a bad idea" camp. I don't think it's necessary, nor is it beneficial. Not only is getting killed a common occurrence, occasionally entirely unavoidable, but it's also already a pretty major inconvenience having to get back to where I was when I died.
That said, I would be willing to suck it up and deal with a death penalty on one condition: Get rid of the freakin' spawn-camping NPCs! If that condition is not met and a death penalty is added anyway, I simply won't log in until such time as this major irritation is fixed, and I'll probably whine about it daily.
Let me open by saying the last time I posted actively on any forum was back during the Star Wars Galaxies CU. That really irked me that sony would disrespect me so much as to trash most everything I had earned in game. So, I gave my 2 cents and pretty much nailed smedley's character as being an egotistal punk who's management style is more suited to run venezuela or cuba. Now it seems mr. Zinc (Craig Zinkeivich), at least to me, seems to be cut from the same stone.
1. Making this state game update with a some vague and clearly controversial topics at the end of the week... bad move. It is not unlike the company that does layoffs at Christmas and then wonders why its having negative press.
2. The some people get it some people don't comment. I know he did not mean to offend. Yeah there are people who simply can't be pleased. But public relations 101, that comment is completely left to interpretation. You basically offended a significant portion of your fan base. Example.... anyone who came out and said "No" to the ingame death pentalty will likely conclude you think that they "don't get it" based on the way the press release is structured. Couple that with the bit that we are here for the people who do get it.... The same psychology that makes memes work causes people to conclude you are saying they don't get it and they can get lost.
3. Life time subs. Some people (my self included) bought life time subscriptions. The death penalty was not something in the game at the time of purchase. Had it been disclosed I would have reconsidered my purchase. Now, I suspect it won't be very harsh. Honestly, look at champions online. But the principle really irks me. I paid for one thing and to me they are changing a fundamental part of the game. Worse, it seems they are ignoring the elephant in the room. Permit me to document what I have observed.
PVE Bridge officers..... The pathing needs work. My bridge officers get stuck constantly. So I find I have to try to herd them into a position for the fight with the elitish mob at the end of an instance. I entered a ticket about this back on the 18th. Despite their claim they are engaging the community, I did not see any acknowledgement on the ticket until I formally requested a refund for my life time sub (more on that in a bit). The response was a mixed canned thank you with a comment about pathing being difficult... someone more on the ball would have said "hey thanks, we know and we are on it."
War Zones? Well there is only one space war zone. It involves 'decrypting' borg nodes while fighting borg (AI controlled) and klingons (other players). On surface that sounds challenging and interesting. Until you try it. Most of the borg are stuck in the nodes. So you can't target them, but they target you just fine. Nothing like being setup for failure. But I believe in adapting and overcoming... so if you're interested... one of your buddies needs to play decoy target while another flies in and interacts with the node. And least I forgot... you and the klingons spawn right on top of each other.... yep, simply the side with the fewest ships is done right out of the gate. So, its ironic that some folks cite 'zerging' (ie attacking with disregard for your ship and crew) as justification for a death penalty. Ummm... You don't have to be a top military analyst to conclude ... what else are you going to do under that circumstance. And this is the current epic end game instance.
I would like to save everyone more reading by simply stating there are issues with this game. But I firmly believe that if you make a claim, you damn well better back it up with some facts...
Spawning.... Well... Its seems you tend to spawn right in the middle of mobs when doing the space contact encounters in PVE. You have enough time to say "OH SHH...."
PVP.... ouch. I loved the pvp be it rather one sided ... for obvious reasons. For one thing... the teams numerically end up as being unbalanced. So you end up with 5 vs 2 for a good portion of the battle. And to cryptics credit... 5 should kick the snot out of 2. And honestly even when I'm out numbered... there is something just klingon about taking your bat'leth (forgive me I'm not very trek savey) and getting one good swat on each of the feds before they take you out (which has a chance to stun).... it does seem that he bat'leth is king of battle in this game. Now for the real problem here. The fed side of the game is largely PVE. So the fed players have experienced nothing but the AI in combat. The klingon side is nothing but PVP.... its only logical to conclude that under the most numerically and gear wise even conditions which side will dominate (and does). That's just common sense.
So I ask this. Why don't you address these issues? Why not sit down and think through a mission.... if you want people to avoid zerging (aka leroy jenkins) design some missions that make it impossible. But don't discount the fact that sometimes its just fun to wade into mobs and knock some heads together. Obviously someone concluded the proper fix to all this is to add a death penalty. Further, to all you nosey nagging busy bodies who can't keep your nose in your own business. It simply is none of your damn business how another player spends his/her free time playing any game, clearly you need to learn to respect other people's time and property. If you honestly believe someone on the other side of the planet playing a game appart from you is somehow affecting you... you have a mental illness. Seriously, you need to get some help and I strongly encourage you to seek it before you really do hurt someone when you snap. Finally, on principle and disgust I've closed my champion's onilne acount and gotten my lifetime Star Trek Online membership refunded. Cryptic/Atari are now in the 'no chance in hell' bin with Sony Online. I signed up to play a game to get away from this kind of BS...
That's all. Sionara.
I love to hear from the developers and I'm glad to hear they're listening to our requests. I would like to add that I DON'T like the idea of a death penalty but if it is inevitable then perhaps it can be optional. If it can't be optional then perhaps there can be servers with a death penalty and servers w/o a death penalty so that "players" get the option to chose when they create an new avatar.
Nice post. It was what I was hoping for from week one. Shoot I want one every week for at least the first three months.
Anyway, I support a DP but I support it as part a comprehensive DP system that addresses the various game play mechanics individually. Additionally, I would not want a DP implemented until the DSP instant death issue is resolved.
On a side note, I see the no DP peeps are marshaling the troops to post in this thread as a last ditch swan song for their position. Good luck with that...:rolleyes:
@Devs - PLEASE FREE The Z!!! & SLOW DOWN the game!
Oy! Come on death penalties really? Why are you going to add death penalties? That is such an outdated play mechanic. Yeah lets punish the players for playing the game.. Just what I wanted.... Not.
Oy! Come on death penalties really? Why are you going to add death penalties? That is such an outdated play mechanic. Yeah lets punish the players for playing the game.. Just what I wanted.... Not.
Maybe if we make another 116 pages anti-DP, they'll actually listen. I mean, the only reason the devs listened to the pro-DP people is cuz they spammed the various forum whining about not having one when there is enough of one to qualify as one already. The reason the anti-DP people haven't been as vocal as the pro people, is because we're pretty well happy with the death system as it is. Maybe we should whine as loud as the WoWdiots?
... The reason the anti-DP people haven't been as vocal as the pro people, is because we're pretty well happy with the death system as it is. Maybe we should whine as loud as the WoWdiots?
I'll wait to see the details of the DP before I rage over it, as I said above, one like EVE is too harsh but I wouldn't mind one like WOW (A repair bill). There needs to be more "gold sinks" for our energy credits anyhow.
Total Ship loss - NO
Random Lost Equipment - NO
Damaged Equipment - Yes
Reduced max-armor / self-repair rate - Yes
Reset of mission enemy NPCs - I'm OK with that too.
Sprinkle at least one "repair ship" per sector, more in friendly sectors and fewer in contested zones.
Death Penalty could be possibly the worst idea for any game, spending hours working away only to have it stripped through a cheap death (I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been warped into the middle of a Romulan fleet in deep space). It slows down the pace of the game and destroys the enjoyment of it. I for one, really do not want to be penalised for experimenting with how I play with my ships and pushing myself in combat when I don't get that much time to play the game in the first place.
Zn: "We guessed this and still we made a conscious decision to not water things down and go "mass market". "
Oh but u did u did..
I love ya Zn and love the game but it is very much watered down compared to release of other mmo's... I would have waited a year longer if there would have been more immediate content and features.
In previous mmo's I could never have hit what is the current "end game" so quickly. In most of them i was unable to at all because I simply dont have the time. There was simply an overwhelming amount of things to do... especially for large guilds.
But in STO i was "done" in a couple weeks. And there is NOTHING my entire fleet can do together. The 5 person raids arent going to cut it Most are bored and not playing anymore already. I wish there were things I could organize to keep them interested because I do see the potential of this game.
Definately not goin anywhere, but patiently waiting for this game to hit the depth and replayability of other mmo's.
Thanks guys and keep up the work, don't make us wait forever.
Now i know after reading this ya gunna say gee hes a wow lover but ive played Aion Warhammer online, god forbid Dungeons and Dragons and other MMO`s searching for that little extra. What this game is lacking is that interactive extra that World of Warcraft ,Warhammer Online and evan Aion have realised, Where is the picnics with your friends or the simple sit down on a seat at the bases, or if ya missus plays the game sit down on a moon and have a picnic?.Maybe you want to go for a swim, i mean you go on you flight deck and yes you can invite people, But why do that when all you do is stand there you cant interact with the deck. This gives the game a very Asthetic feel to it.Yes it is heavily instanced and your lucky to run into one of the million players playing it, And yes your programmers have put pats on the bases so it looks busy and if you stand in the one spot they run into you and push you out of the way (bit rude i thought).
I enjoy star trek online and it is a GOOD game but ive played GREAT games as well. I just cant help getting that feeling im playing a shooter up and not a Ball tearing MMO.
You could have an update which u can beam down to strange new worlds.Cos at the moment u can beam down to only a few worlds. If you could do that then the game would be great,but apart from that it is a good game.:)
First off let me say - Thankyou.
I Love to actually here from the developer so many of the other companies out there seem to ignore the core players when it comes to information. Thus far Cryptic is doing wonderful at keeping us at the very least informed as to what you think we want. Instead of surprising us and being totally wrong. Way to go!!
Your Key issues.
* Respec - Please. The game is new and we didn't / don't know just exactly what all those skills did / do now we have a better idea but don't want to leave my captain behind to start over and do it right this time.
* Death Penalty - Personally ((NO)) - but I do understand the need to be careful. Any DP should and must be limited to at most what you have gained since you entered the instance and then since your last (this instance ) death. Mission Done = penalty safe. Any Death penalty that goes beyond that will keep people from playing with there higher ranked fleetmates. Because hey I'm a Heavy Escort I do decent damage even in my Admiral buddies missions but once the baddies notice me POP I'm dead and no amount of Science ship love can same me.
* Difficulty Slider - I like it. Hadn't really thought about this one but being able to (within reason) adjust a mission difficulty setting would be nice. Say for solo play depending on what type of ship.
* More open auto-fire - YES! nuf said
* Replayable missions - Yes! All non story line missions should be re-playable with diminishing returns of course.
* Improving Memory Alpha - God YES! the current memory alpha set is ... well... fix it.
* Fixing those Commodity missions - They were broke? humm I missed that. With the exception of the commodities being hard to get they seemed fine to me. Maybe I didn't get a broke one.
* Who are the Undine and what drives them? - yes please tell us. I'm one of those weird people that read the stuff the NPC's say. I like the story. We need more story.
* How can we better exploit the Genesis System to create even more compelling content? - More variety I like the system but it recycles to fast.
* Where can we boldly go next? Where shall we take exploratory missions, as there's so much potential there? - Get rid of the sandstorm planets sheesh you can't see anything. Fix the anomaly spawning underground or under a building problem. Fix the NPC and bridge officer's falling through the hilly land problem. Have the Space anomaly (mission entry points) spawn more often or dencer or something. If there are several ships in the nebula searching it takes forever to find them sometimes.
* Which faction should be playable next? Romulan? Cardassian? Pakled? Dominion? Horta? Okay, not so much the Pakleds. I'll take all of them for the win.
Now for my own comments. - The Bridge! - I can't emphasize this enough. FOCUS ON THE BRIDGE!
Flight should be controlled from the bridge.
What I would like to see.
When I go to sector space I should be on my bridge. From the bridge I can access the controls to direct the ship. In general a starship is not controlled like boat. Unless I want to see it sector space is a waste. I would issue the command to fly to starbase 24( select in the Map options) the navigator would input the course and we would fly there. It would be nice to see a forward view on the screen ( but not essential). All the current content can still be used. The pop up messages asking if I want to enter a close system or talk to the Klingon sensor contact are fine, however, being sucked into a battle needs to stop. If I didn't want to talk to them I'm surly not going to fly into them. We would detour around. The current (M) command is fine for inputting the destination orders. And for those few people that want to fly by hand the astrometric view we have now can still be available. As well as being used when exploring cluster space since we have to find the anomolies. This will give the bridge purpose without a lot of new programming and will go a long way toward reality and Star Trek immersion. These suggestions are only for sector space the current mechanics for combat and mission space are great.
I expect you are adding more internal ship parts at a later date. With regards to that keep customization in mind. Think of the ship as the players house. Give us stuff to decorate with, I would like to be able to make a conference room with a table and chairs so my fleet could meet ingame and sit down. Perhaps a captains ready room with mementos. Much of the decoration stuff could be C-Store items. And of course you have to limit what you can customize in what type of ship. Escorts don't have room for perminent big conference rooms. (we have a multi purpose room. Reads Holodeck can be anything but is cookiecutter style. Not customizable)
I apologize for harping on the bridge but I and many of the people I know feel you really missed the boat on that aspect of the Star Trek experience. Sector space is a fine mechanic to illustrate warp flight but it is boring. Its just big empty tank with a top and bottom to bump into. Combat space with all the controlls turned off. Since most people autopilot from one place to another most of the time I feel the focus should be moved to the bridge giving it purpose and letting us see more familiar Star Trek theme stuff while we fly around in space.
Ah well you asked for comments I give comment. I hope this is useful to you and look forward to the spam of further comment on what I have said.
I'll post this again, since the DP has people in such a tizzy, and some folks just cant seem to figure out where the talk of a DP is coming from...its not just the playerbase, its the professional gaming community...
...read the exceprts from the following reviews:
" Thus, as long as you don't try and engage a whole roomful of bad guys at once, you'll easily able to grind your way through the enemy hordes, especially considering the lack of a death penalty." 1UP.com
"There is no death penalty whatsoever--you just respawn and reenter the fray, no worse for the wear. The lack of a death penalty may sound appealing if you have dreaded memories of returning to your corpse in EverQuest, but here, it just makes an easy game even easier. Few fights offer the down-to-the-last-second kind of tension you'd hope for, and success is so inevitable that victory often rings hollow. You're just going through the motions without having to exercise the strategies you'd employ in the larger fleet actions. " - Gamespot
" Unfortunately, STO is simple and shallow. Ground combat is typically a two-button business, and the assistance of a bridge officer (STO's simplistic answer to MMORPG pets) drastically reduces your odds of dying. Not that kicking the bucket counts for anything: With no death penalty to discourage poor play, every encounter becomes a matter of perseverance... perseverance in the face of certain boredom." - Gamespy
etc.
Its remarkably basic...no risk, no thrill.
Kirk said it best:
"Risk... Risk is our business. That's what this starship is all about. That's why we're aboard her."
- Capt. Kirk
That is why I have proposed a consequence system with minigames (engineering types have to stop a warp core breach from a bridge console, etc.) in previous posts in this thread. It isnt punitive, it provides content and a consequence for jeopardizing your command. The last thing I want is a penalty of decay or "corpse runs", but there is a better way. Getting your ship incapped should trigger additional content.
I really enjoyed reading this Update. Not only was your trekkiness fun to read (i had forgotten about the Pakleds and had to go look up who you were talking about) but i thrive on information about the continuing development of the game.
I am such a huge Trek fan that I was worried you guys couldn't pull this one off. I have greatly enjoyed my time with STO and am grateful that you got so much of the game "right". My other fear is that they game will have financial issues down the line when all of your players hit max level in 4 to 6 weeks and the player base starts to dwindle.
I hope this game lasts as long, and evolves as much, as City of Heroes. Please make these "state of the game" addresses once a month or so to keep us all in the loop with your guy's hard work.
Thanks again, I appreciate your sleepless nights, weekendless weeks, and ****ed off spouses.
Chief Engineer Bandel@BoginDA
It absolutely amazing that Cryptic listens to the 3 (slightly understated, but for effect) people who are upset with the LACK of a death penalty in ST:O. Noone wants it.
It is a wonderful feeling to be part of such a small and elite group of 3. Tell ya what, you don't want a DP? Then have Cryptic turn friendly fire on so that we can remove the obstacles (read idiots who just blast away ruining team efforts for the rest of us...) and everyone can have a grand ole time.
Thank you Cryptic, my quickly fading faith in you has been restored.
I think I can 2nd that and was about to go into paypal this week and ensure they don't withdraw more money. However its worth waiting for more changes after that.
Now I'm thinking the only failure was people, including myself, getting impatiant but also that cryptic never bounced stuff back to us in this way previously so we never lost that faith.
I'd be happy to eat my hat after things I've said and be playing this until 2011 if these changes not only come but come with precision.
I'll post this again, since the DP has people in such a tizzy, and some folks just cant seem to figure out where the talk of a DP is coming from...its not just the playerbase, its the professional gaming community...
...read the exceprts from the following reviews:
" Thus, as long as you don't try and engage a whole roomful of bad guys at once, you'll easily able to grind your way through the enemy hordes, especially considering the lack of a death penalty." 1UP.com
"There is no death penalty whatsoever--you just respawn and reenter the fray, no worse for the wear. The lack of a death penalty may sound appealing if you have dreaded memories of returning to your corpse in EverQuest, but here, it just makes an easy game even easier. Few fights offer the down-to-the-last-second kind of tension you'd hope for, and success is so inevitable that victory often rings hollow. You're just going through the motions without having to exercise the strategies you'd employ in the larger fleet actions. " - Gamespot
" Unfortunately, STO is simple and shallow. Ground combat is typically a two-button business, and the assistance of a bridge officer (STO's simplistic answer to MMORPG pets) drastically reduces your odds of dying. Not that kicking the bucket counts for anything: With no death penalty to discourage poor play, every encounter becomes a matter of perseverance... perseverance in the face of certain boredom." - Gamespy
etc.
Its remarkably basic...no risk, no thrill.
Kirk said it best:
"Risk... Risk is our business. That's what this starship is all about. That's why we're aboard her."
- Capt. Kirk
That is why I have proposed a consequence system with minigames (engineering types have to stop a warp core breach from a bridge console, etc.) in previous posts in this thread. It isnt punitive, it provides content and a consequence for jeopardizing your command. The last thing I want is a penalty of decay or "corpse runs", but there is a better way. Getting your ship incapped should trigger additional content.
Your arguement employees the following fallacy... "follow the crowd".
Further ... how often critics get much of anything right?
Avatar, the weather, doomsday predictions?
but in keeping it simple... I'm not paying for it.
all crytpic subscriptions closed.
STO lifetime sub refunded.
and just annoyed enough by the audacity of a few of the player base to not come back.
Imagine Ceptain Kirk out at his favorite eatery with some hot greeny dancing girl.
He orders ... and the waiter total brings him something he did not order.... further the guy at the table next to him demands that he shut up and eat. I think captain kirk would slap the waiter and the guy silly (funky fight music included).
Love the game so far and can't wait for the additional upcoming content. I'm a huge Star Trek fan & this is exactly the change I needed in an mmo. I've tried a alot in the past and it been the same TRIBBLE only in a shiny new package. So far so good! I'm hoping Cryptic will continue to be different from anything else out there.
Say no to death penalty! I like to game with the game time I have.
Respecs asap please!
Yes to inside ship content, at least first off travel time inside your bridge. Opening your map in Stellar cartography, engineering, crew quarters. I think lack of ship content is the biggest thing missed. Ok I brought somebody aboard now what?
More ground & space pvp maps, creative away missions (repeatable sure) & more of them & less of kill 5 squads space please.
Love the ground fleet action just wish the payoffs were better (sp & rewards). Bust your butt for a decent amount of time and receive little sp and a hypo, I was jipped!
Group ground content where you could bring your away teams along would be so cool. Especially for the Klingon's, I'll be capped and never have even pulled them out, sad.
An area other then a space station where you could go and see other players (maybe a training area). Currently I beam down to Ice mining to test new guns or kits. I like the away team content, feels more like Star Trek then anything else. hey it's an mmo. Is that persistent pve?
For once an mmo that understands what a reward is & you don't have to grind your TRIBBLE off for it! Character customization for you and your crew is outstanding. Keep up the good work!
Your arguement employees the following fallacy... "follow the crowd".
Further ... how often critics get much of anything right?
Avatar, the weather, doomsday predictions?
but in keeping it simple... I'm not paying for it.
all crytpic subscriptions closed.
STO lifetime sub refunded.
and just annoyed enough by the audacity of a few of the player base to not come back.
Imagine Ceptain Kirk out at his favorite eatery with some hot greeny dancing girl.
He orders ... and the waiter total brings him something he did not order.... further the guy at the table next to him demands that he shut up and eat. I think captain kirk would slap the waiter and the guy silly (funky fight music included).
There is no fallacy in my argument, I provided critical reviews that point out the fallacy with the current mechanic - along with a basic tenant of human nature. Im sorry if those facts are inconvenient for you...you claim critics are often wrong...ok, maybe, but instead of offering an unconvincing generalized statement, you might want to try specifically refuting their conclusions with some FACTS. Because their observations ARE DEAD ON. No death penalty pun intended.
As far as your "follow the crowd" comment....the people upset with a death consequence are screaming that THEY represent the crowd...so uh, now who is really using a flawed argument?
Another faction? errr pls fix klingons and make it playable then re think of a comment for another.
dude zn i guess u haven`t tried a pvp q which has 1000 fed and 10 klingons.... Play the game dude play the game urself and u see all troubled things urself...
Comments
I was doing an explore mission (I am LC 9). Anyways, I get the generic "kill 5 patrols" thing and I am all like "cool, i like blowing stuff up" so off I go.
First 4 patrols are all escorts. 3 at a time, a bit tough for my escort but a nice little fight, never get below 50% hull.
The last patrol is a battleship. "Ok" I think, "Different tactics, run and gun he cant hit what he cant catch"
Well he had a tractor beam. "ok, eat this" I think as I launch barrage after barrage of plasma torps on him.
Its a tough fight, a long fight, a GREAT fight and I love it! We both get down to about 13% hull...Im tense, Im happy, this is great! I GET BLOWN UP!!!
And I respwan on the other side of the map, and my enemy has instantly rehealed to full health.
Now, you tell me HOW this ISNT a DP....go ahead, and I mean the serious players not the well organized Goonfleet campaign that was shown to exist yesterday.
Tell me how an enemy instantly going back to 100% and me getting respawned on the other side of the map isnt a DP
Fair enough. And if that happened every time I'd be cool with it.. but I've had alot of fights where I admittedly got blown up for my own stupidity, I came back kicked in full impluse and by the time I was back they were still at 50% heath. If it's been changed that they regen to full after you die, I'm alot less worried about just respawning then.
If there's still mines layin around the map, they count as allied forces and the mob won't regen right off the bat.
not a bad idea either
I think some people need to get multiple forms of entertainment. Blowing through 80 hours of content in, well, 80 hours is just asking for sadness at the end. It's like eating all your halloween candy on the first night. Big ole sugar rush, but the next day, you're sick as a dog.
The monthly subscription rate is less than two movie tickets, but some seem to think that it entitles them to 24/7 content of endless cool stuff.
Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest as the boards sometimes seem to be driven by a lot of whiners.
I think there are many areas of improvement for the devs, but from the sounds of this update, they are taking a hard look at it.
Those wanting to argue, realize that for every opinion about something (DP) there is likely an equal and opposite (and valid) opinion from another player and of course Cryptic can't make both sets of players happy. Just live with it and play the game.
OK, how did I start ranting again? This was meant to be a thank you post...
I appreciate the hard work and dedication put in by the Cryptic team and I enjoy the game. Please keep making it better.
but please please please start on a better grouping system for fleets
That said, I would be willing to suck it up and deal with a death penalty on one condition: Get rid of the freakin' spawn-camping NPCs! If that condition is not met and a death penalty is added anyway, I simply won't log in until such time as this major irritation is fixed, and I'll probably whine about it daily.
1. Making this state game update with a some vague and clearly controversial topics at the end of the week... bad move. It is not unlike the company that does layoffs at Christmas and then wonders why its having negative press.
2. The some people get it some people don't comment. I know he did not mean to offend. Yeah there are people who simply can't be pleased. But public relations 101, that comment is completely left to interpretation. You basically offended a significant portion of your fan base. Example.... anyone who came out and said "No" to the ingame death pentalty will likely conclude you think that they "don't get it" based on the way the press release is structured. Couple that with the bit that we are here for the people who do get it.... The same psychology that makes memes work causes people to conclude you are saying they don't get it and they can get lost.
3. Life time subs. Some people (my self included) bought life time subscriptions. The death penalty was not something in the game at the time of purchase. Had it been disclosed I would have reconsidered my purchase. Now, I suspect it won't be very harsh. Honestly, look at champions online. But the principle really irks me. I paid for one thing and to me they are changing a fundamental part of the game. Worse, it seems they are ignoring the elephant in the room. Permit me to document what I have observed.
PVE Bridge officers..... The pathing needs work. My bridge officers get stuck constantly. So I find I have to try to herd them into a position for the fight with the elitish mob at the end of an instance. I entered a ticket about this back on the 18th. Despite their claim they are engaging the community, I did not see any acknowledgement on the ticket until I formally requested a refund for my life time sub (more on that in a bit). The response was a mixed canned thank you with a comment about pathing being difficult... someone more on the ball would have said "hey thanks, we know and we are on it."
War Zones? Well there is only one space war zone. It involves 'decrypting' borg nodes while fighting borg (AI controlled) and klingons (other players). On surface that sounds challenging and interesting. Until you try it. Most of the borg are stuck in the nodes. So you can't target them, but they target you just fine. Nothing like being setup for failure. But I believe in adapting and overcoming... so if you're interested... one of your buddies needs to play decoy target while another flies in and interacts with the node. And least I forgot... you and the klingons spawn right on top of each other.... yep, simply the side with the fewest ships is done right out of the gate. So, its ironic that some folks cite 'zerging' (ie attacking with disregard for your ship and crew) as justification for a death penalty. Ummm... You don't have to be a top military analyst to conclude ... what else are you going to do under that circumstance. And this is the current epic end game instance.
I would like to save everyone more reading by simply stating there are issues with this game. But I firmly believe that if you make a claim, you damn well better back it up with some facts...
Spawning.... Well... Its seems you tend to spawn right in the middle of mobs when doing the space contact encounters in PVE. You have enough time to say "OH SHH...."
PVP.... ouch. I loved the pvp be it rather one sided ... for obvious reasons. For one thing... the teams numerically end up as being unbalanced. So you end up with 5 vs 2 for a good portion of the battle. And to cryptics credit... 5 should kick the snot out of 2. And honestly even when I'm out numbered... there is something just klingon about taking your bat'leth (forgive me I'm not very trek savey) and getting one good swat on each of the feds before they take you out (which has a chance to stun).... it does seem that he bat'leth is king of battle in this game. Now for the real problem here. The fed side of the game is largely PVE. So the fed players have experienced nothing but the AI in combat. The klingon side is nothing but PVP.... its only logical to conclude that under the most numerically and gear wise even conditions which side will dominate (and does). That's just common sense.
So I ask this. Why don't you address these issues? Why not sit down and think through a mission.... if you want people to avoid zerging (aka leroy jenkins) design some missions that make it impossible. But don't discount the fact that sometimes its just fun to wade into mobs and knock some heads together. Obviously someone concluded the proper fix to all this is to add a death penalty. Further, to all you nosey nagging busy bodies who can't keep your nose in your own business. It simply is none of your damn business how another player spends his/her free time playing any game, clearly you need to learn to respect other people's time and property. If you honestly believe someone on the other side of the planet playing a game appart from you is somehow affecting you... you have a mental illness. Seriously, you need to get some help and I strongly encourage you to seek it before you really do hurt someone when you snap. Finally, on principle and disgust I've closed my champion's onilne acount and gotten my lifetime Star Trek Online membership refunded. Cryptic/Atari are now in the 'no chance in hell' bin with Sony Online. I signed up to play a game to get away from this kind of BS...
That's all. Sionara.
Admiral "Hands" T'ker
U.S.S. Dauntless
Anyway, I support a DP but I support it as part a comprehensive DP system that addresses the various game play mechanics individually. Additionally, I would not want a DP implemented until the DSP instant death issue is resolved.
On a side note, I see the no DP peeps are marshaling the troops to post in this thread as a last ditch swan song for their position. Good luck with that...:rolleyes:
@Devs - PLEASE FREE The Z!!! & SLOW DOWN the game!
Good stuff.
Now if you can answer in-game tickets in less than 2 hours...
What playable race next: Romulan baby, Romulan. There is so much potential there with the story line.
I'll wait to see the details of the DP before I rage over it, as I said above, one like EVE is too harsh but I wouldn't mind one like WOW (A repair bill). There needs to be more "gold sinks" for our energy credits anyhow.
Total Ship loss - NO
Random Lost Equipment - NO
Damaged Equipment - Yes
Reduced max-armor / self-repair rate - Yes
Reset of mission enemy NPCs - I'm OK with that too.
Sprinkle at least one "repair ship" per sector, more in friendly sectors and fewer in contested zones.
It feels like I'm back in WoW.
Account Canceled.
Oh but u did u did..
I love ya Zn and love the game but it is very much watered down compared to release of other mmo's... I would have waited a year longer if there would have been more immediate content and features.
In previous mmo's I could never have hit what is the current "end game" so quickly. In most of them i was unable to at all because I simply dont have the time. There was simply an overwhelming amount of things to do... especially for large guilds.
But in STO i was "done" in a couple weeks. And there is NOTHING my entire fleet can do together. The 5 person raids arent going to cut it
Definately not goin anywhere, but patiently waiting for this game to hit the depth and replayability of other mmo's.
Thanks guys and keep up the work, don't make us wait forever.
Hmm, you forgot the kiddie whiner playerbase...oh wait...
I enjoy star trek online and it is a GOOD game but ive played GREAT games as well. I just cant help getting that feeling im playing a shooter up and not a Ball tearing MMO.
You could have an update which u can beam down to strange new worlds.Cos at the moment u can beam down to only a few worlds. If you could do that then the game would be great,but apart from that it is a good game.:)
I Love to actually here from the developer so many of the other companies out there seem to ignore the core players when it comes to information. Thus far Cryptic is doing wonderful at keeping us at the very least informed as to what you think we want. Instead of surprising us and being totally wrong. Way to go!!
Your Key issues.
* Respec - Please. The game is new and we didn't / don't know just exactly what all those skills did / do now we have a better idea but don't want to leave my captain behind to start over and do it right this time.
* Death Penalty - Personally ((NO)) - but I do understand the need to be careful. Any DP should and must be limited to at most what you have gained since you entered the instance and then since your last (this instance ) death. Mission Done = penalty safe. Any Death penalty that goes beyond that will keep people from playing with there higher ranked fleetmates. Because hey I'm a Heavy Escort I do decent damage even in my Admiral buddies missions but once the baddies notice me POP I'm dead and no amount of Science ship love can same me.
* Difficulty Slider - I like it. Hadn't really thought about this one but being able to (within reason) adjust a mission difficulty setting would be nice. Say for solo play depending on what type of ship.
* More open auto-fire - YES! nuf said
* Replayable missions - Yes! All non story line missions should be re-playable with diminishing returns of course.
* Improving Memory Alpha - God YES! the current memory alpha set is ... well... fix it.
* Fixing those Commodity missions - They were broke? humm I missed that. With the exception of the commodities being hard to get they seemed fine to me. Maybe I didn't get a broke one.
* Who are the Undine and what drives them? - yes please tell us. I'm one of those weird people that read the stuff the NPC's say. I like the story. We need more story.
* How can we better exploit the Genesis System to create even more compelling content? - More variety I like the system but it recycles to fast.
* Where can we boldly go next? Where shall we take exploratory missions, as there's so much potential there? - Get rid of the sandstorm planets sheesh you can't see anything. Fix the anomaly spawning underground or under a building problem. Fix the NPC and bridge officer's falling through the hilly land problem. Have the Space anomaly (mission entry points) spawn more often or dencer or something. If there are several ships in the nebula searching it takes forever to find them sometimes.
* Which faction should be playable next? Romulan? Cardassian? Pakled? Dominion? Horta? Okay, not so much the Pakleds. I'll take all of them for the win.
Now for my own comments. - The Bridge! - I can't emphasize this enough. FOCUS ON THE BRIDGE!
Flight should be controlled from the bridge.
What I would like to see.
When I go to sector space I should be on my bridge. From the bridge I can access the controls to direct the ship. In general a starship is not controlled like boat. Unless I want to see it sector space is a waste. I would issue the command to fly to starbase 24( select in the Map options) the navigator would input the course and we would fly there. It would be nice to see a forward view on the screen ( but not essential). All the current content can still be used. The pop up messages asking if I want to enter a close system or talk to the Klingon sensor contact are fine, however, being sucked into a battle needs to stop. If I didn't want to talk to them I'm surly not going to fly into them. We would detour around. The current (M) command is fine for inputting the destination orders. And for those few people that want to fly by hand the astrometric view we have now can still be available. As well as being used when exploring cluster space since we have to find the anomolies. This will give the bridge purpose without a lot of new programming and will go a long way toward reality and Star Trek immersion. These suggestions are only for sector space the current mechanics for combat and mission space are great.
I expect you are adding more internal ship parts at a later date. With regards to that keep customization in mind. Think of the ship as the players house. Give us stuff to decorate with, I would like to be able to make a conference room with a table and chairs so my fleet could meet ingame and sit down. Perhaps a captains ready room with mementos. Much of the decoration stuff could be C-Store items. And of course you have to limit what you can customize in what type of ship. Escorts don't have room for perminent big conference rooms. (we have a multi purpose room. Reads Holodeck can be anything but is cookiecutter style. Not customizable)
I apologize for harping on the bridge but I and many of the people I know feel you really missed the boat on that aspect of the Star Trek experience. Sector space is a fine mechanic to illustrate warp flight but it is boring. Its just big empty tank with a top and bottom to bump into. Combat space with all the controlls turned off. Since most people autopilot from one place to another most of the time I feel the focus should be moved to the bridge giving it purpose and letting us see more familiar Star Trek theme stuff while we fly around in space.
Ah well you asked for comments I give comment. I hope this is useful to you and look forward to the spam of further comment on what I have said.
...read the exceprts from the following reviews:
" Thus, as long as you don't try and engage a whole roomful of bad guys at once, you'll easily able to grind your way through the enemy hordes, especially considering the lack of a death penalty." 1UP.com
"There is no death penalty whatsoever--you just respawn and reenter the fray, no worse for the wear. The lack of a death penalty may sound appealing if you have dreaded memories of returning to your corpse in EverQuest, but here, it just makes an easy game even easier. Few fights offer the down-to-the-last-second kind of tension you'd hope for, and success is so inevitable that victory often rings hollow. You're just going through the motions without having to exercise the strategies you'd employ in the larger fleet actions. " - Gamespot
" Unfortunately, STO is simple and shallow. Ground combat is typically a two-button business, and the assistance of a bridge officer (STO's simplistic answer to MMORPG pets) drastically reduces your odds of dying. Not that kicking the bucket counts for anything: With no death penalty to discourage poor play, every encounter becomes a matter of perseverance... perseverance in the face of certain boredom." - Gamespy
etc.
Its remarkably basic...no risk, no thrill.
Kirk said it best:
"Risk... Risk is our business. That's what this starship is all about. That's why we're aboard her."
- Capt. Kirk
That is why I have proposed a consequence system with minigames (engineering types have to stop a warp core breach from a bridge console, etc.) in previous posts in this thread. It isnt punitive, it provides content and a consequence for jeopardizing your command. The last thing I want is a penalty of decay or "corpse runs", but there is a better way. Getting your ship incapped should trigger additional content.
I am such a huge Trek fan that I was worried you guys couldn't pull this one off. I have greatly enjoyed my time with STO and am grateful that you got so much of the game "right". My other fear is that they game will have financial issues down the line when all of your players hit max level in 4 to 6 weeks and the player base starts to dwindle.
I hope this game lasts as long, and evolves as much, as City of Heroes. Please make these "state of the game" addresses once a month or so to keep us all in the loop with your guy's hard work.
Thanks again, I appreciate your sleepless nights, weekendless weeks, and ****ed off spouses.
Chief Engineer Bandel@BoginDA
It is a wonderful feeling to be part of such a small and elite group of 3. Tell ya what, you don't want a DP? Then have Cryptic turn friendly fire on so that we can remove the obstacles (read idiots who just blast away ruining team efforts for the rest of us...) and everyone can have a grand ole time.
I think I can 2nd that and was about to go into paypal this week and ensure they don't withdraw more money. However its worth waiting for more changes after that.
Now I'm thinking the only failure was people, including myself, getting impatiant but also that cryptic never bounced stuff back to us in this way previously so we never lost that faith.
I'd be happy to eat my hat after things I've said and be playing this until 2011 if these changes not only come but come with precision.
Thanks C Team
Your arguement employees the following fallacy... "follow the crowd".
Further ... how often critics get much of anything right?
Avatar, the weather, doomsday predictions?
but in keeping it simple... I'm not paying for it.
all crytpic subscriptions closed.
STO lifetime sub refunded.
and just annoyed enough by the audacity of a few of the player base to not come back.
Imagine Ceptain Kirk out at his favorite eatery with some hot greeny dancing girl.
He orders ... and the waiter total brings him something he did not order.... further the guy at the table next to him demands that he shut up and eat. I think captain kirk would slap the waiter and the guy silly (funky fight music included).
Say no to death penalty! I like to game with the game time I have.
Respecs asap please!
Yes to inside ship content, at least first off travel time inside your bridge. Opening your map in Stellar cartography, engineering, crew quarters. I think lack of ship content is the biggest thing missed. Ok I brought somebody aboard now what?
More ground & space pvp maps, creative away missions (repeatable sure) & more of them & less of kill 5 squads space please.
Love the ground fleet action just wish the payoffs were better (sp & rewards). Bust your butt for a decent amount of time and receive little sp and a hypo, I was jipped!
Group ground content where you could bring your away teams along would be so cool. Especially for the Klingon's, I'll be capped and never have even pulled them out, sad.
An area other then a space station where you could go and see other players (maybe a training area). Currently I beam down to Ice mining to test new guns or kits. I like the away team content, feels more like Star Trek then anything else. hey it's an mmo. Is that persistent pve?
For once an mmo that understands what a reward is & you don't have to grind your TRIBBLE off for it! Character customization for you and your crew is outstanding. Keep up the good work!
There is no fallacy in my argument, I provided critical reviews that point out the fallacy with the current mechanic - along with a basic tenant of human nature. Im sorry if those facts are inconvenient for you...you claim critics are often wrong...ok, maybe, but instead of offering an unconvincing generalized statement, you might want to try specifically refuting their conclusions with some FACTS. Because their observations ARE DEAD ON. No death penalty pun intended.
As far as your "follow the crowd" comment....the people upset with a death consequence are screaming that THEY represent the crowd...so uh, now who is really using a flawed argument?
dude zn i guess u haven`t tried a pvp q which has 1000 fed and 10 klingons.... Play the game dude play the game urself and u see all troubled things urself...