The game sounds like it will be pretty good as you said in six months to a year, most of or all of these things could of and should of been brought up in the closed beta and open beta and ready for on release. I bet most of them were brought up.
Infact since you listen so much to your secret developers (your commuinity), the ones not getting paid to come up with ideas for you. should give them all free game time until you really finish the game. Instead of milking them for somthing that is half done. And to the ones that you refer to that"GET IT" , with the captains and the ships and the bridge officers, thats great, since thats really all you got going for you and some star trek memories in your missions from the shows.
There will be so many other games out this year when this is finally done, releasing early was bad move.
Would of been better to come out strong and stay on top, instead of halfaresing it early.
I really wanted to enjoy your vison of Star Trek the mmo. But i couldn't past the first week.
Why i find myself posting about the game, instead of playing it is proof in the pudding.
I'm not alone in this mind set either.
Good luck
PS, make DP optional, it will cost you subscribers if other wise. Your games not built for it.
Well i havent read all 112 pages of this, but i did read the first 30 or so. I just wanted to post my thoughts on DP.
I see alot of people saying that DP is only wanted by a vocal minority, the community dosent want it, Will rage quit if its added ect ect. I find this mildly amusing as Zinc didnt acctually say WHAT IT WAS GOING TO BE.....
Personally i think DP is needed in this game, I'm a part time casual gamer. I work full time so dont get to play alot before i get accused of being uberleet or whatever the term is. Nothing to harsh, just something to get rid of the zerg method of playing.
Also as to playable factions, sort the Klinks out before working on another one. The next one should be the Cardies not Romulan!!
Another thing i would love to see if gamepad/joystick support for scace combat.
I'll take the liberty of posting this definition of the word 'game' from the dictionary: An active interest or pursuit, especially one involving competitive engagement or adherence to rules
In case you hadn't guessed, this is me adding my support to the idea of some sort of penalty for failure, which was of course mentioned in the state of the game announcement. At the moment, with no penalty whatsoever, other than a ten second respawn wait, which in fact is no penalty at all since it can be used as a means to transport yourself back to the space battle spawn point quicker by simply getting yourself blown up on purpose, there is no real competitive aspect to pve in STO at all.
I'm not suggesting that the penalty has to be a real pain in the TRIBBLE, but without any real penalty at all in the game at present, there is no sense of 'boldly going' anywhere, because there is no risk at all. And I do not believe for one second the argument that some sort of penalty will put off casual players either - just exactly how casual a player would you have to be to not want any challenge at all?!!! And even if you were that casual, just how long do we think someone that casual about things is going to keep playing?
It's all very well claiming a death penalty will put casual players off, which I don't believe will be the case, but you can be damn sure that no penalty at all, and therefore no challenge, will be certain to put players off, since who the hell wants to play a game where there is no challenge?
Ok listen up here cryptic so far i love what you have made of star trek i have watched this game for years and i am a long time Star Trek fan but and hear me well on this one. I have payed you over $340.00 to play this game and i play it with the fealing of frendship and i already fill the loss ov every ship that gets blasted. I do not want need or half to have any other DP. If i wanted one do you think for one second i would even be in this game or have payed for it? This game is in fact not ment for anything more than what it has at present you have not worked out the ai you have not worked out the damage tactics and most of everything else in the game is patched at best all things considered. I realy did not want my post to be one that is puting the game down and in fact its not it is a true statment of the current state of the game and a understanding of where it is at. But you can not make a DP and expect it to do anything but drive people off and that is not fair to me as a LIFETIME SUB and not fair to every STAR TREK fan that even looked at this game. You must not and can not do such a thing.
I do understand ther is a way to make a person think well now should i realy blow my self up? Will that raming speed make it worth it? And I have been in PVP that makes mw just want to throw up with the dam rush rush rush that thay do insted of actualy using the fleet tactics that you ment to use. But to ant tactic of a rush thay always loos and the reason for any more of a DP making that go away not a chance. more depth for it please that is the mindless chater of small brains thinking to get either some sick pleasure out of killing some one and making them have a bad day. Will it make any change in that no just make it a eve clone with a star trek skin.
As for loosing a ship or a part on it why would i want that? What possible reason do i want to add hours of play or never again get a part that came from a mission i can never do again just over a error in a AI? How about server lag o im so sorry you lost that weapon you had bound to you but dont worry friend il grab it for you.... But.... Sorry it bound to me i cant give it back. Shall we look at space next any one with a brain see where this is going? It simply cant happen in this game you did not make it for that damage till repaired maby credits needed spent maby. But even then with the way missions are set up and fleet actions are ment to destroy your ship and depending on the level are ment to take on several top level ships and destroy them it cant be accomplished even sith a fleet and support to win with out a ship destroyed you point blank did not make this game for that. Any attempt will only destroy it. Unless you simply want to do that or are you now going to recode the entire game for the sake of a few crying babies that fill thay half to change a game for them insted of say where is star trek taking me today.
And yes one could say im crying for change. And maby so but im pointing out you as the makers of this game that can take us to uncharted high's in star trek did not make it with a DP in mind any where near what these players that by ther own words did or do not even play the game for that reason.
So what do you have to loos by saying maby its not for you then as telling your player base that is providing your pay that well these are crying so lets make sure thay get what thay want. if thats the case hell il cry more than a smashed tribble in the klingons hand. and make you put every thing i can dream of in the game starting with shoes on ther ears no longer on the feet cause my ears are cold and my avatar's feet need to air so thay dont stink.
The game sounds like it will be pretty good as you said in six months to a year, most of or all of these things could of and should of been brought up in the closed beta and open beta and ready for on release. I bet most of them were brought up.
Infact since you listen so much to your secret developers (your commuinity), the ones not getting paid to come up with ideas for you. should give them all free game time until you really finish the game. Instead of milking them for somthing that is half done. And to the ones that you refer to that"GET IT" , with the captains and the ships and the bridge officers, thats great, since thats really all you got going for you and some star trek memories in your missions from the shows.
There will be so many other games out this year when this is finally done, releasing early was bad move.
Would of been better to come out strong and stay on top, instead of halfaresing it early.
I really wanted to enjoy your vison of Star Trek the mmo. But i couldn't past the first week.
Why i find myself posting about the game, instead of playing it is proof in the pudding.
I'm not alone in this mind set either.
Good luck
PS, make DP optional, it will cost you subscribers if other wise. Your games not built for it.
The whole thing already annoyed me enough at this point that I closed my Champions Account and disputed my life time on my credit card (which appears to already have been refunded).
The more I thought about it the more I realized cryptic as a whole are rather clueless....
brilliant move, making a smart alec press release on Friday.... hey thanks for ruining my plans this weekend... I was just going to work and play trek in between. And perhaps I am being petty, but the more I think about the principle the more it really peeves me. The last time I posted to a forum was during the whole star wars galaxies fiasco with the CU. I was very annoyed that sony would disrespect my time and effort in game by trashing everything I had done. And everything I am seeing in ZNs post smacks of someone who thinks I may perhaps "don't get it". I may be misinterpreting it, but to me the comment is born out the same mindset as a punk tin horn dictator. Anyone who doesn't agree needs reeducation to get their mind right. Well I do get it... And here is something you need to understand ... its my money and my time not yours and I have real problem (on principle alone) with someone forcing something on me that I don't want especially after I paid for something entirely different. The mere thought just irks me. It may very well be that the death penalty is just a simple thing like in champions, but honestly i don't care anymore. The principle alone turns my stomach.
I may be the only one, but I really don't care.
I'll take the liberty of posting this definition of the word 'game' from the dictionary: An active interest or pursuit, especially one involving competitive engagement or adherence to rules
In case you hadn't guessed, this is me adding my support to the idea of some sort of penalty for failure, which was of course mentioned in the state of the game announcement. At the moment, with no penalty whatsoever, other than a ten second respawn wait, which in fact is no penalty at all since it can be used as a means to transport yourself back to the space battle spawn point quicker by simply getting yourself blown up on purpose, there is no real competitive aspect to pve in STO at all.
I'm not suggesting that the penalty has to be a real pain in the TRIBBLE, but without any real penalty at all in the game at present, there is no sense of 'boldly going' anywhere, because there is no risk at all. And I do not believe for one second the argument that some sort of penalty will put off casual players either - just exactly how casual a player would you have to be to not want any challenge at all?!!! And even if you were that casual, just how long do we think someone that casual about things is going to keep playing?
It's all very well claiming a death penalty will put casual players off, which I don't believe will be the case, but you can be damn sure that no penalty at all, and therefore no challenge, will be certain to put players off, since who the hell wants to play a game where there is no challenge?
Al
are people so void of imagination that they need a set rule or "penalty" in order to even TRY to stay alive in this game..is that what we ar admitting to. So do i take it that people are just dying for the hell of it because there is no comeback...i thouught we were gamers here! I HATE LOSING I HATE DYING, i am fighting withmy shields and every god damn trick i know to stay alive. on th occasion that i die I feel like a real puke of a gamer..especially if i am playing with others..man dying really irks me more than i casn say becaue it means total failure ion my part. How are they gonna punish me any worse?? They cant they ca irritate me a bit but im already ****ed off from playing so lame that i died.
Just my tjhoughts is all not tryig to annoy anyone I been up for along time so sorry for my typing
because when you get bumped, your friends die a lot faster. How about every time you "die" the entire mission or fleet action completely resets? Because I think that is sort of what they had in mind. Dieing takes you out of that round and the team loses an asset. There is the penalty. But forcing someone to play extra hours to earn credits to pay a repair bill... sorry, I work all day and I don't find that entertaining or enjoyable. But c'est la vie. If Cryptic changes the game I'll either like it or not. Right now I am loving it and I hope to keep on loving it. \\//(^_^)
I play solo and turn auto team off. So I force someone to pay to play extra hours and earn extra credits how? lol
Everything sounds good to me except the death penalty. If implemented I hope that it is made optional.
I know the idea is to please everyone, but an optional penalty is no penalty at all...pointless.
I like the idea of "Difficulty Sliders", (assuming your only grouped with others at your setting) If I wanna play with the wussies and have no DP, less risk and low value green/white rewards, slide it low... But if I wanna play "Hard Core" with a brutal penalty, high value rewards (and bragging rights) crank it up!. I would be willing to risk the loss of a Ship or BO permanatly, if the reward was equally great.
Regarding the topic of death penalty I would like it if it fits into star trek universe. Why not being severely injured sometimes that you have to stay some time in sickbay to recover? Or your ship is somewhat crippled that you have to be towed back or have to limp back to a repair facility or space dock. Or maybe you need some spare parts?
Of course there is the problem that in the middle of a multiplayer mission it would spoil the party. Even if not quite realistic the bad effects might come down on you after the mission when hot patches tend to break apart and your adrenaline is gone.
are people so void of imagination that they need a set rule or "penalty" in order to even TRY to stay alive in this game..is that what we ar admitting to. So do i take it that people are just dying for the hell of it because there is no comeback...i thouught we were gamers here! I HATE LOSING I HATE DYING, i am fighting withmy shields and every god damn trick i know to stay alive. on th occasion that i die I feel like a real puke of a gamer..especially if i am playing with others..man dying really irks me more than i casn say becaue it means total failure ion my part. How are they gonna punish me any worse?? They cant they ca irritate me a bit but im already ****ed off from playing so lame that i died.
Just my tjhoughts is all not tryig to annoy anyone I been up for along time so sorry for my typing
^ This. And when you're done with this, do ^ this again.
Regarding the topic of death penalty I would like it if it fits into star trek universe. Why not being severely injured sometimes that you have to stay some time in sickbay to recover? Or your ship is somewhat crippled that you have to be towed back or have to limp back to a repair facility or space dock. Or maybe you need some spare parts?
Of course there is the problem that in the middle of a multiplayer mission it would spoil the party. Even if not quite realistic the bad effects might come down on you after the mission when hot patches tend to break apart and your adrenaline is gone.
I agree with you whole heartedly. A DP that fits into the Star Trek universe would be nice. But you basically already answered why "limping back to a repair facility or spending time in sick bay" just wouldn't work. Could you imagine how much downtime you'd have solo or otherwise if it was anything remotely similar. I think Cryptic faces a tough challenge on first just establishing a DP that fits, yet doesn't offend the senses of the naysayers. They can't make everyone happy no matter what they decide/implement but I'm very interested to see what will be the final decision.
Most of the really good arguments have already been made but for numbers sake, I'd like to throw my vote in here.
At the risk of enflaming a certain crow, the Death Penalty in games does nothing positive for the gaming experience save for those 'elite' few for whom it confirms 'I'm wicked good at this game'.
For the moderate gamer whom is the bulk of your subscription base (sorry, elitists, you don't pay the bills, especially when you jump from game to game every couple months), the Death Penalty serves as an artificial impediment to advancement or an artificial money sink. No extra 'fun', no extra 'enjoyment', just a flat out annoyance.
Although the 'dread' mechanic from LOTRO has been mentioned multiple times in this thread as being unnecessary, I'd also like to point out another pointless mechanic from that game, the 'hounding fear'. This kicks in when you are outnumbered and getting hit from behind (i.e., running away). The impact? You run -slower- and can't block, parry, or evade should you try to turn around and engage. After 3 years this mechanic is finally being removed by the devs and replaced with absolutely nothing. Why? It doesn't add enjoyment to the game, it just causes players to stop and say 'wtf, I'm running away from a mob and because of that, I'm moving... slower'?
Death Penalty doesn't make people play any better....
My first post was rather flippant; however, my spirit remains unchanged. If we must add something, make it minor to deal with, as well as simple and cheap to fix. Restaff enlisted crew, 10 merit. I relish in drawing fire as a science officer, however I use strategy and ability to minimize the damage I take. It's called kiting, and it's a must that you do everything in your power to stay alive. I vape from time to time, but it's because I was careless, or I didn't fully analyze the situation. I have fun when I use my brain when I play
1. DP does not create better players, just a different type of bad one.
Casuals tend to be more risk averse. So rather than playing better, they'll play to minimize risks. And this, in turn, means they are less likely to wind up in situations that test their limits and lead to them becoming better players, actual good players. And all the while, they are having less fun than they could be.
2. If they do add a death penalty, it'll be tuned to casuals, who make up the majority of the player base. As such, pretty much any more hardcore player will laugh it off. Hardcore players are the ones more likely to be asking for a DP yet what we get, if anything, won't be enough to really be noticed by them (well, by us, since hardcores would include me).
3. Many so called supporters of a DP do not understand what a DP actually is. What they are talking about is content that can be failed. That is not the same thing as a death penalty. Something the devs need to keep in mind, what people are actually asking for, not what terms they are using incorrectly.
Anyway, I'm anti-DP, as I don't feel they add much to the game and serve primarily to stunt the growth and lessen the fun of a sizable portion of the population. I am, however, for content that can be failed. I want tough, challenging content with consequences for TRIBBLE up, like locked out for the day or having to start it all over again, and rewards for doing it well.
I feel sorry for everyone campaigning against a DP, but seriously, this game is EASY. if you pay attention, you wont die. Maybe the Devs can make it so if you have the slider at the easy easy setting, you wont get a DP.
Personally im having that slider right at the maximum it can be, and bring on the death penalty.
Side note, Devs there are two issues I have read alot that are no where on that. Flying up and down (90 degrees) and the oversized enviroments.
1. DP does not create better players, just a different type of bad one.
Casuals tend to be more risk averse. So rather than playing better, they'll play to minimize risks. And this, in turn, means they are less likely to wind up in situations that test their limits and lead to them becoming better players, actual good players. And all the while, they are having less fun than they could be.
2. If they do add a death penalty, it'll be tuned to casuals, who make up the majority of the player base. As such, pretty much any more hardcore player will laugh it off. Hardcore players are the ones more likely to be asking for a DP yet what we get, if anything, won't be enough to really be noticed by them (well, by us, since hardcores would include me).
3. Many so called supporters of a DP do not understand what a DP actually is. What they are talking about is content that can be failed. That is not the same thing as a death penalty. Something the devs need to keep in mind, what people are actually asking for, not what terms they are using incorrectly.
Anyway, I'm anti-DP, as I don't feel they add much to the game and serve primarily to stunt the growth and lessen the fun of a sizable portion of the population. I am, however, for content that can be failed. I want tough, challenging content with consequences for TRIBBLE up, like locked out for the day or having to start it all over again, and rewards for doing it well.
Lockout timers KILLED Warhammers endgame PVE. dont make that mistake, it had 800k subs and now has like 100k, IF THAT.
I feel sorry for everyone campaigning against a DP, but seriously, this game is EASY. if you pay attention, you wont die. Maybe the Devs can make it so if you have the slider at the easy easy setting, you wont get a DP.
Personally im having that slider right at the maximum it can be, and bring on the death penalty.
Honestly, I feel more sorry for those that think a DP will in any way be significant enough to matter. It won't. No game aiming at the casual market has a death penalty worthy of mentioning. They are all nothing more than minor annoyances. Cryptic games tend to be more casually focused than most, so any DP will most likely be even more of a joke.
Implementing it is nothing more than a waste of dev time that could be better spent elsewhere.
As to difficulty, I'll have it maxed out as well, most likely. And probably still find the game too easy.
Lockout timers KILLED Warhammers endgame PVE. dont make that mistake, it had 800k subs and now has like 100k, IF THAT.
Lots of things killed Warhammer. And one can just as easily point to WoW as a game with lockout timers that is still doing fine, though theirs are triggered by several failures, though a lockout for the rest of the week, not just a day.
As always with MMOs, you have to make trade offs. This game will have a casual focus, so things will probably be relatively short. So if you wanted to limit how many times someone could attempt it...
It wouldn't be too bad, as long as it wasn't failed once, game over, the lockout was reset each morning at 10 AM or something, and, ideally, there was enough content to pick and choose from.
Though given the current lack of content and the high chance it won't be fixed quickly, a lockout started on success would be better, no doubt.
"We already know what you think about a death penalty, Craig but The Community really thinks it's a good idea and their opinion is more valid than yours because they probably don't own goats."
Well given the over all tone of the forums it seems most of us seem to agree with Craig and that those in the community who "really think it's a good idea" are jut a small yet vocal minority.
im in with the no dp crowd.. annoyance, not even worth implementing .. the difficulty slider will imo be more than enough for those seeking more of a thrill.. maybe even limit the dp to the "extreme hard" end of the slider if you REALLY have to implement one
I will say this, without a DP I charge into every hostile engagement cannons blasting and photons hailing. Meanwhile, I pay no attention to my shield/hull strengths until the message "Defeat" pops up. There's no DP so why should I care if I'm boom'd? For me self preservation is an aspect of this MMO I'm not concerned about because there's no reason to be. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing...
To provide a counter-point to this, when I go into combat, I always check my shields, constantly rotate them, and do my absolute best to survive, if not win, because having my ship destroyed is simply annoying. Simply watching my ship blow up is enough of a "death penalty" for me.
But to refer to part of this post that I didn't quote, I think rewarding people for managing to stay alive would be a good thing. There could be things like "number of PvE missions completed without dying" (on level-appropriate maps), "number of PvP matches completed without dying" (provided the player participates in the match somehow, to avoid people who just lurk at the back and never do anything), and so on.
The point is, there already is a penalty for falure. In PvE, any ships you might have damaged recover, and you have to fly back to them, wasting time. In PvP (especially the non-arena maps), if you get destroyed, chances are your boarding party (or whatever) also got destroyed, and you also get knocked back far enough you can't possibly get back in time to help any of your allies who are also getting destroyed, and "charging in guns blazing" is more than likely going to get you killed just as fast, to no real effect.
So don't punish failure any further than it already is being. Reward people who are successful (and who actually care about the bragging rights).
Also, I'm finding myself against the idea of a difficulty slider. If people start getting good gear from an increased difficulty, then they can easily come back in to lower difficulties (by dropping the difficulty back down) and go clean house in PvP, for example. I've seen enough PvP experiences in other games where someone with phenomenal gear was able to overwhelm multiple other players who had more average levels of gear. That kind of thing might appeal to some, but it certainly will not to the players who keep getting blown up and constantly lose matches because there's too much of a power level difference.
For a difficulty slider to work, the better equipment thus gained would have to scale down if the difficulty did.
In conclusion, I'm not against giving players seeking a greater challenge the opportunity. I'm against any kind of real penalty which would be aimed at the player base as a whole because some players think the game is too easy, or in letting players who do seek out greater challenges gain so much of an advantage against players who don't that it essentially penalizes people who don't play at higher levels.
I will say that there are certain encounters were not having some kind of Death Penalty does really take the tension out of it.
On the other hand there are battles that are designed in such a way that it takes into account you're going to die and you're going to respawn and get back in the fight (Crystal Entity I'm look you at you you rascally thing you!)
I think something of a middle ground would be awesome. Maybe once you're defeated instead of always blowing up you enter a 'disabled' state where you have a set amount of time to either get yourself back up and running or a teammate to help you out, and if not you get dumped from that fight. So there's a penalty, but there's always a way to snatch a second chance from the jaws of defeat like usually in Star Trek.
Really though I think STO is still finding it's way. Sure there's been alot of negativity, especially in the reviews, and maybe I'm just being to nice, but while many of the issues that are being listed are perfectly valid, I just don't see anything to make me believe these will be 'forever' problems.
Maybe it's because I'm an EVE refugee who that came just eventually became /way/ to complex for, but I think MMO's need to be judged by their potential and not their initial impressions. Age of Conan and Warhammer Online both got alot of very favorable reviews, but quickly started to struggle. In the month that STO's been life I've been seeing alot of improvments already made. I think this is a game that's really going to reward your patience if you give it a chance.
Oh and one other note, while I'd be ok with a Death Penalty, one of my /favorite/ things about STO is the fact that it doesn't seem intent on punishing you if you roll with a group of friends. Definatly I love that I can get in my lower tier ships and roll out with friends that are just starting and I don't have to feel like I'm draining their XP or anything.
Comments
The game sounds like it will be pretty good as you said in six months to a year, most of or all of these things could of and should of been brought up in the closed beta and open beta and ready for on release. I bet most of them were brought up.
Infact since you listen so much to your secret developers (your commuinity), the ones not getting paid to come up with ideas for you. should give them all free game time until you really finish the game. Instead of milking them for somthing that is half done. And to the ones that you refer to that"GET IT" , with the captains and the ships and the bridge officers, thats great, since thats really all you got going for you and some star trek memories in your missions from the shows.
There will be so many other games out this year when this is finally done, releasing early was bad move.
Would of been better to come out strong and stay on top, instead of halfaresing it early.
I really wanted to enjoy your vison of Star Trek the mmo. But i couldn't past the first week.
Why i find myself posting about the game, instead of playing it is proof in the pudding.
I'm not alone in this mind set either.
Good luck
PS, make DP optional, it will cost you subscribers if other wise. Your games not built for it.
I see alot of people saying that DP is only wanted by a vocal minority, the community dosent want it, Will rage quit if its added ect ect. I find this mildly amusing as Zinc didnt acctually say WHAT IT WAS GOING TO BE.....
Personally i think DP is needed in this game, I'm a part time casual gamer. I work full time so dont get to play alot before i get accused of being uberleet or whatever the term is. Nothing to harsh, just something to get rid of the zerg method of playing.
Also as to playable factions, sort the Klinks out before working on another one. The next one should be the Cardies not Romulan!!
Another thing i would love to see if gamepad/joystick support for scace combat.
Cheers
In case you hadn't guessed, this is me adding my support to the idea of some sort of penalty for failure, which was of course mentioned in the state of the game announcement. At the moment, with no penalty whatsoever, other than a ten second respawn wait, which in fact is no penalty at all since it can be used as a means to transport yourself back to the space battle spawn point quicker by simply getting yourself blown up on purpose, there is no real competitive aspect to pve in STO at all.
I'm not suggesting that the penalty has to be a real pain in the TRIBBLE, but without any real penalty at all in the game at present, there is no sense of 'boldly going' anywhere, because there is no risk at all. And I do not believe for one second the argument that some sort of penalty will put off casual players either - just exactly how casual a player would you have to be to not want any challenge at all?!!! And even if you were that casual, just how long do we think someone that casual about things is going to keep playing?
It's all very well claiming a death penalty will put casual players off, which I don't believe will be the case, but you can be damn sure that no penalty at all, and therefore no challenge, will be certain to put players off, since who the hell wants to play a game where there is no challenge?
Al
I do understand ther is a way to make a person think well now should i realy blow my self up? Will that raming speed make it worth it? And I have been in PVP that makes mw just want to throw up with the dam rush rush rush that thay do insted of actualy using the fleet tactics that you ment to use. But to ant tactic of a rush thay always loos and the reason for any more of a DP making that go away not a chance. more depth for it please that is the mindless chater of small brains thinking to get either some sick pleasure out of killing some one and making them have a bad day. Will it make any change in that no just make it a eve clone with a star trek skin.
As for loosing a ship or a part on it why would i want that? What possible reason do i want to add hours of play or never again get a part that came from a mission i can never do again just over a error in a AI? How about server lag o im so sorry you lost that weapon you had bound to you but dont worry friend il grab it for you.... But.... Sorry it bound to me i cant give it back. Shall we look at space next any one with a brain see where this is going? It simply cant happen in this game you did not make it for that damage till repaired maby credits needed spent maby. But even then with the way missions are set up and fleet actions are ment to destroy your ship and depending on the level are ment to take on several top level ships and destroy them it cant be accomplished even sith a fleet and support to win with out a ship destroyed you point blank did not make this game for that. Any attempt will only destroy it. Unless you simply want to do that or are you now going to recode the entire game for the sake of a few crying babies that fill thay half to change a game for them insted of say where is star trek taking me today.
And yes one could say im crying for change. And maby so but im pointing out you as the makers of this game that can take us to uncharted high's in star trek did not make it with a DP in mind any where near what these players that by ther own words did or do not even play the game for that reason.
So what do you have to loos by saying maby its not for you then as telling your player base that is providing your pay that well these are crying so lets make sure thay get what thay want. if thats the case hell il cry more than a smashed tribble in the klingons hand. and make you put every thing i can dream of in the game starting with shoes on ther ears no longer on the feet cause my ears are cold and my avatar's feet need to air so thay dont stink.
The whole thing already annoyed me enough at this point that I closed my Champions Account and disputed my life time on my credit card (which appears to already have been refunded).
The more I thought about it the more I realized cryptic as a whole are rather clueless....
brilliant move, making a smart alec press release on Friday.... hey thanks for ruining my plans this weekend... I was just going to work and play trek in between. And perhaps I am being petty, but the more I think about the principle the more it really peeves me. The last time I posted to a forum was during the whole star wars galaxies fiasco with the CU. I was very annoyed that sony would disrespect my time and effort in game by trashing everything I had done. And everything I am seeing in ZNs post smacks of someone who thinks I may perhaps "don't get it". I may be misinterpreting it, but to me the comment is born out the same mindset as a punk tin horn dictator. Anyone who doesn't agree needs reeducation to get their mind right. Well I do get it... And here is something you need to understand ... its my money and my time not yours and I have real problem (on principle alone) with someone forcing something on me that I don't want especially after I paid for something entirely different. The mere thought just irks me. It may very well be that the death penalty is just a simple thing like in champions, but honestly i don't care anymore. The principle alone turns my stomach.
I may be the only one, but I really don't care.
Just my tjhoughts is all not tryig to annoy anyone I been up for along time so sorry for my typing
Wow that really sucks. It was a good thing that there was no Death Penalty. Rest sounds good but thats really bad news.
Yes we do...
... well I do anyway.
I play solo and turn auto team off. So I force someone to pay to play extra hours and earn extra credits how? lol
I know the idea is to please everyone, but an optional penalty is no penalty at all...pointless.
I like the idea of "Difficulty Sliders", (assuming your only grouped with others at your setting) If I wanna play with the wussies and have no DP, less risk and low value green/white rewards, slide it low... But if I wanna play "Hard Core" with a brutal penalty, high value rewards (and bragging rights) crank it up!. I would be willing to risk the loss of a Ship or BO permanatly, if the reward was equally great.
Cheers
Of course there is the problem that in the middle of a multiplayer mission it would spoil the party. Even if not quite realistic the bad effects might come down on you after the mission when hot patches tend to break apart and your adrenaline is gone.
^ This. And when you're done with this, do ^ this again.
I agree with you whole heartedly. A DP that fits into the Star Trek universe would be nice. But you basically already answered why "limping back to a repair facility or spending time in sick bay" just wouldn't work.
At the risk of enflaming a certain crow, the Death Penalty in games does nothing positive for the gaming experience save for those 'elite' few for whom it confirms 'I'm wicked good at this game'.
For the moderate gamer whom is the bulk of your subscription base (sorry, elitists, you don't pay the bills, especially when you jump from game to game every couple months), the Death Penalty serves as an artificial impediment to advancement or an artificial money sink. No extra 'fun', no extra 'enjoyment', just a flat out annoyance.
Although the 'dread' mechanic from LOTRO has been mentioned multiple times in this thread as being unnecessary, I'd also like to point out another pointless mechanic from that game, the 'hounding fear'. This kicks in when you are outnumbered and getting hit from behind (i.e., running away). The impact? You run -slower- and can't block, parry, or evade should you try to turn around and engage. After 3 years this mechanic is finally being removed by the devs and replaced with absolutely nothing. Why? It doesn't add enjoyment to the game, it just causes players to stop and say 'wtf, I'm running away from a mob and because of that, I'm moving... slower'?
Death Penalty doesn't make people play any better....
It makes people play less.
1. DP does not create better players, just a different type of bad one.
Casuals tend to be more risk averse. So rather than playing better, they'll play to minimize risks. And this, in turn, means they are less likely to wind up in situations that test their limits and lead to them becoming better players, actual good players. And all the while, they are having less fun than they could be.
2. If they do add a death penalty, it'll be tuned to casuals, who make up the majority of the player base. As such, pretty much any more hardcore player will laugh it off. Hardcore players are the ones more likely to be asking for a DP yet what we get, if anything, won't be enough to really be noticed by them (well, by us, since hardcores would include me).
3. Many so called supporters of a DP do not understand what a DP actually is. What they are talking about is content that can be failed. That is not the same thing as a death penalty. Something the devs need to keep in mind, what people are actually asking for, not what terms they are using incorrectly.
Anyway, I'm anti-DP, as I don't feel they add much to the game and serve primarily to stunt the growth and lessen the fun of a sizable portion of the population. I am, however, for content that can be failed. I want tough, challenging content with consequences for TRIBBLE up, like locked out for the day or having to start it all over again, and rewards for doing it well.
Personally im having that slider right at the maximum it can be, and bring on the death penalty.
Side note, Devs there are two issues I have read alot that are no where on that. Flying up and down (90 degrees) and the oversized enviroments.
Lockout timers KILLED Warhammers endgame PVE. dont make that mistake, it had 800k subs and now has like 100k, IF THAT.
Honestly, I feel more sorry for those that think a DP will in any way be significant enough to matter. It won't. No game aiming at the casual market has a death penalty worthy of mentioning. They are all nothing more than minor annoyances. Cryptic games tend to be more casually focused than most, so any DP will most likely be even more of a joke.
Implementing it is nothing more than a waste of dev time that could be better spent elsewhere.
As to difficulty, I'll have it maxed out as well, most likely. And probably still find the game too easy.
Lots of things killed Warhammer. And one can just as easily point to WoW as a game with lockout timers that is still doing fine, though theirs are triggered by several failures, though a lockout for the rest of the week, not just a day.
As always with MMOs, you have to make trade offs. This game will have a casual focus, so things will probably be relatively short. So if you wanted to limit how many times someone could attempt it...
It wouldn't be too bad, as long as it wasn't failed once, game over, the lockout was reset each morning at 10 AM or something, and, ideally, there was enough content to pick and choose from.
Though given the current lack of content and the high chance it won't be fixed quickly, a lockout started on success would be better, no doubt.
They put in a death penalty, it will kill what interest in the game I still have left.
Well given the over all tone of the forums it seems most of us seem to agree with Craig and that those in the community who "really think it's a good idea" are jut a small yet vocal minority.
But to refer to part of this post that I didn't quote, I think rewarding people for managing to stay alive would be a good thing. There could be things like "number of PvE missions completed without dying" (on level-appropriate maps), "number of PvP matches completed without dying" (provided the player participates in the match somehow, to avoid people who just lurk at the back and never do anything), and so on.
The point is, there already is a penalty for falure. In PvE, any ships you might have damaged recover, and you have to fly back to them, wasting time. In PvP (especially the non-arena maps), if you get destroyed, chances are your boarding party (or whatever) also got destroyed, and you also get knocked back far enough you can't possibly get back in time to help any of your allies who are also getting destroyed, and "charging in guns blazing" is more than likely going to get you killed just as fast, to no real effect.
So don't punish failure any further than it already is being. Reward people who are successful (and who actually care about the bragging rights).
Also, I'm finding myself against the idea of a difficulty slider. If people start getting good gear from an increased difficulty, then they can easily come back in to lower difficulties (by dropping the difficulty back down) and go clean house in PvP, for example. I've seen enough PvP experiences in other games where someone with phenomenal gear was able to overwhelm multiple other players who had more average levels of gear. That kind of thing might appeal to some, but it certainly will not to the players who keep getting blown up and constantly lose matches because there's too much of a power level difference.
For a difficulty slider to work, the better equipment thus gained would have to scale down if the difficulty did.
In conclusion, I'm not against giving players seeking a greater challenge the opportunity. I'm against any kind of real penalty which would be aimed at the player base as a whole because some players think the game is too easy, or in letting players who do seek out greater challenges gain so much of an advantage against players who don't that it essentially penalizes people who don't play at higher levels.
On the other hand there are battles that are designed in such a way that it takes into account you're going to die and you're going to respawn and get back in the fight (Crystal Entity I'm look you at you you rascally thing you!)
I think something of a middle ground would be awesome. Maybe once you're defeated instead of always blowing up you enter a 'disabled' state where you have a set amount of time to either get yourself back up and running or a teammate to help you out, and if not you get dumped from that fight. So there's a penalty, but there's always a way to snatch a second chance from the jaws of defeat like usually in Star Trek.
Really though I think STO is still finding it's way. Sure there's been alot of negativity, especially in the reviews, and maybe I'm just being to nice, but while many of the issues that are being listed are perfectly valid, I just don't see anything to make me believe these will be 'forever' problems.
Maybe it's because I'm an EVE refugee who that came just eventually became /way/ to complex for, but I think MMO's need to be judged by their potential and not their initial impressions. Age of Conan and Warhammer Online both got alot of very favorable reviews, but quickly started to struggle. In the month that STO's been life I've been seeing alot of improvments already made. I think this is a game that's really going to reward your patience if you give it a chance.
Keep that!