Great update Cryptic. It is good to hear that you guys are actually aware of what we want/need. I think we all assumed you guys weren't listening and pulling a "Sony" on us.
There NEEDS to be a death penalty to add that sense of fear. Just a small time-based one that makes dying a negative enough experience that you don't want to intentionally ram your ship into something each time your shields and hull are almost gone. As we all know it is faster to do so than to regen. Right now I don't care either way if I live or die.
How about something as simple as respawning with 0 energy, 0 crew, and 0 shields with a 15 second invincibility to give yourself enough time to warp out if you get spawn camped.
Punish us with TIME, but don't make us buy anything, chase corpses, or go repair somewhere. That will just break the pace of the game.
So I'm reading the state of the game on the website and i'm looking forward to the prospective changes, when i realize that on the sidebar, the game is now $10 less then when i bought it and offers an extra 60 days free. So with the current state of the game being a work in progress, I was wondering will current account holders be given the extra 60 days as well. We have been your loyal customers, testers, etc. and we've given the feedback to make the game better. Considering we have paid $10 more and suffered through the early game we are more entilted then to that perk than people who come in now.
So the only PVP leveling is done in klingon...I think not. Fed and Klingon both can level via PVP so the death penalty no applying to them is redicoulous, Why should the expores and those who go thru the content be penalized. I don't think they should.
LoL! You get that wrong. Having DP will MAKE people use tactics and not go in all guns blazing like some insane Lerroy with nothing too lose which at present they don't!
Explain what tactics you are refering to...going in guns blazing....where do you get off.
you have 4-6 ships all a level or 2 above you...explain what martial tactics you know that know one else does. Please......move out of your parents basement...experience real life then talk to me about tactics.
It already takes long enough to do anything in MMO's. There's no need to further delay the average player from moving forward every time they die. NO DP's. And i see people talking about time delays instead of actual experience or stat reduction, which inst any better. For mega power nerds perhaps there needs to be "that element of fear", which is ridiculous, but not for the majority of players like myself. Furthermore if a time delay is implemented the PVP would quickly deteriorate. I've already begun to see it go the way of WOW. You know what I'm talking about... everyone's a jerk and its not any fun at all. There is no need for a penalty that restricts players form going in "guns blazing", if the content of the game is good enough both styles of play can easily be taken into account. you have to make the game fun; it is a fictional game. has everyone forgotten that we're more than happy to pretend we're fling ships and shooting different kinds of fake quasi scientific lazerish beams and preposterous projectiles at each other. Cant the game be made to be challenging and rewarding without a bunch of corny rules that really make the game ultimately less fun to play. I know i switched to star trek primarily because the PVP sucked on all the other games as well as tiny stupid things like having to sit and twiddle my thumbs while i wait to re-spawn. Sorry for the wordiness folks but i really hate death penalties.
You have rebuilt my already strong devotion to this game, Cryptic!
I'm glad to know that YOU guys know that WE(the users) are what are drives the progress of this game. And I sppreciatte that recognition. Just keep on hearing us out and we'll keep lashing you for your faults and hugging you for your awesomeness.
LoL! You get that wrong. Having DP will MAKE people use tactics and not go in all guns blazing like some insane Lerroy with nothing too lose which at present they don't!
And as we all know, Leroy Jenkins was a sterling example of how players actually act, rather than something that was clearly and obviously staged for the lulz.
I've been in situations where a death penalty would have seriously caused me some trouble. For example, the random map encounters and running into a flagship, then respawning after dying on top of the flagship, getting killed again, and only breaking out of that cycle by the mission timer resetting. Or getting creamed by multiple higher-level players despite trying different tactics.
I suppose an extremely limited death penalty would be okay, as overlordtom said. Something which delays getting back in the fight if you don't want to just die again. But nothing more severe than the "penalty" for surviving, so that it's just an equalizer and not an actual detriment. And it's not really necessary for PvE, which already sets you back some distance and usually lets the enemy ships heal to full.
Explain what tactics you are refering to...going in guns blazing....where do you get off.
you have 4-6 ships all a level or 2 above you...explain what martial tactics you know that know one else does. Please......move out of your parents basement...experience real life then talk to me about tactics.
DP is a bad idea.
LoL so the childish get out the basement line FYI. I am Married with 2 kids and a stable job which I will attend in about 20 mins so I will leave this thread to all you Fans of console games that have no real grasp of what makes an MMO.
Where do you get 4-6 ships, Solo? 3 Frigates maybe and 1 of those can be taken out in seconds and the other 2 fall shortly after. A BS is no different. If you use your grey matter they can be taken out without loosing any shields what so ever.
Have to be quick. Talking from an engineer point of view with escort.
Jam, Take down shields, Rotate shield freq, Use cannons, Tracktpr, Use Power to shields if needed (Not a lot), Kill. Its not rocket science and the tactic is sound for nearly every mob in STO.
Anyway my argument is not for forced DP but for optional. For those that want to use it we should be rewarded with better loot and XP for the ramp in difficulty over the carebare settting.
Sounds good.
Death Penalty, exploring ship interiors, more interesting exploration missions.
Maybe Klingons even will become a complete race. PLEASE add more clothing options to female Klingons, we only have one pair of boots.
Did I overlook it or will the skilltree NOT be modified so SP cap doesn't cripple you that much?
Of all the MMO's I have played over the past 6 years, this has GOT to be the only group of designers I feel listens to the community so intently. Sure most listen for bugs etc, but when some one says "hey heres suggestions" then no one ever replies.
But here, I have read the forums pretty heavily (takes a while to sift through the pointless whining with no suggestions in it and the rage quitters) and every time suggestion comes up, these guys take it into consideration and in fact have just listed a ton of forum ideas they are actually putting in! This gives me tons of faith in this game and makes me feel like this will one day be a game a lot of those rage quitters will have wished they stuck with.
Just my two cents,
Good Job guys, it is not easy, keep up the good work and make us proud.
I agree, but those of us who are HAPPY with the game, and like it THE WAY IT IS, aren't going to be on here saying stuff. So then they're likely to change the game based on the complaints of a vocal minority, and then it's going to TRIBBLE up the game for those of us who like it HOW IT IS NOW.
Look. If you're going to add a game feature: MAKE THE SHIPS BE ABLE TO TURN 360 DEGREES IN ALL DIRECTIONS. THEY ARE FREAKING SPACE SHIPS. If you can't figure out how to do that mathematically within your game engine, then here's a clue: QUATERNIONS.
Also. TAKE THE CLOUDS OUT OF OUTER SPACE. TAKE THE ASTEROIDS OUT FROM AROUND MOST EVERY FREAKING PLANET. Thank you!
- Signed, STO players for the realistic visual rendering & navigation of space.
- OR AT LEAST THE OPTION
Yes I wasn't thinkin But like some said DP is Mostly PvE only but I have Plaied a Few that are PvP to and wow when u get Ganked and lose all your stuff u flip. But Like I said before I don't mind paing Repair Bill as long as they fix the NPC Ship's Farming Spawn and Warp in Point's. But I also think we got enough BO's where if u can lose your BO from dieing 2 or 3 time's with in a hr is a GREAT DP. Ppl say man I got so many BO's just hang out onmy Bridge keeping me Co. This would also Help us with Losing ppl we grow to love and want to replace but can't bring our self to Dismiss them. If they die then I would have to replace them hehe.
I agree totally. Heard of that old lines that says ' Becarefull what you wish for... '? I say let these players who want DP have that option, but that it is ONLY OPTIONAL for those players that want DP. Don't enforce DP on all players, especially the new players. Thanks for saying it better than me, too.
The problem with giving an option like that is it would have to be a total re write of the code for Cryptic. The last time I saw a massive redo of an MMO, it took about three days for a mass exodus and SWG hasn't recovered from that. That option IMHO is out of the question. Death Penalties are not useful and do not make the game better, just the opposite. There is NO simple way to give everyone what they want. I agree that difficulty is needed in most if not all missions, (Crystal Entity not included, in fact it needs to be tamed down a bit as it is a bit too difficult for the level it should be done.)
Right now STO feels like a chat room with a single player game melded to it. the true and only viable way to make it more is to fix the grouping and make the questlines more group friendly by getting rid of the auto group feature and tuning up the foes with better AI and level. This would give the game a better MMO feel and the players a bigger sense of accomplishment. The cat is out of the bag now and to change the fundamental gameplay is a good way to doom the entire project. If a death penalty is implemented, it should apply to everyone, not a choice for some with a carrot on a stick of better gear , etc. The players should not be able to decide this, it should be a wholly dev run show. Otherwise the game would become imbalanced and unplayable for anyone who plays casually. Whiney little gits who have nothing to do but sit around and play games all day need to go out and get a real life and quit crying about death penalties and why there is no end-game for them, because the game was too easy for them. It's these attitudes that turn the really good MMO's into trash.
I agree the game is too easy and not varied enough, but I believe that Cryptic has a good foundation set and just needs to tweak the system a bit to make it better. There really is no need to make it into EVE or WOW because those games don't really apply here. If they did, STO would have been stillborn.
I paid for this game too and bought a Lifetime sub because of what I saw in beta. They have already changed the game ALOT between then and now and I don't see a need to take it further away from the true vision of Trek, which is first and formost exploration and conflict resolution, not how badly you can destroy your opponent.
As someone with not much time to play I like not having any DP but then sometimes i do find myself battling away without even bothering to look at my shield/hull etc.
I think there is plenty of ways of having DP to make the game that little more interesting without anoying those who don't have time to go gold farming for repairs etc. The devs just need to look at it from a ST point of view, which so far they seem very good at doing.
What would usually happen on ST in a battle? Lots of console explosions!
If each death damaged a console until it eventually exploded, you could simply continue trying to complete the mission until you feel your going to spend too much on repairs or until your console simply explodes completely (and maybe it could damage the concerned bridge officer).
Even loosing a few of those invisible crew members and therfore slowing repair rate until you visit a starbase wouldn't be anything major and would simply add too the feel that your 'living' in Star Trek without spening hours of real life getting more gold to repair/replace stuff.
Well thats my view anyway
I actually like this idea for a DP and would willingly accept it
you claim to listen to the community, but your insistence on steamrolling ahead on the DP issue while ignoring a sizable portion of the forum going playerbase is alarming.
this is the number one issue for me, that will decide if i will continue to sub to STO or not.
i am not a hardcore. i am not 1% player. i am your bread and butter trek fan audience.
there is no consensus among pro DP people, what they want range from negligible to a new level of harsh DP.
try to please a few of them and lose everyone who wants the game to stay as it is.
you can choose to be STO, or you can choose to be POTBS 2.
That's what Blizzard found out from their 96% "part time" players from WoW. They hated the DP's and they were the 'bread 'n butter' for Blizzard. Blizzard learned the hard way. Lets hope Cryptic checked that out if not already made obvious enough in that MMO's game hosts circle to be aware of this. The more I play this STO the less I get respawn options shown to me. And respawn makes me feel lousy enough to know ( by myself ) I failed. I don't need all you DP advocates/supporters to have a say that I should be punish when you'er not there to glee for my mistakes. That's just plain sick-*ss to ask for such frustrations on other players enjoying the no DP the way it currently is, especially if they're new players joining STO. Someone said almost all other MMO's have some form of Death Penalties? If everyone puts jumper cables on themselves and hook it to their car batteries and starts it, should I also? Sorry, I didn't want to use that 'everyone jumps off the cliff lines'.
Anyway, what you want of DP do it on your own STO account and play time, so more power to you. I didn't buy this game and pay STO membership to please your in game death-penalty-wish to please you. That's plain idiotic to think I bought this game for other gamers, too. We all got this game for each of us so don't be asking to punish other players who don't agree to this DP ideas of yours.
Cryptic - Please make it available for these DP advocates as an OPTIONAL and not force it for your majority of quiet and contented players who shared your original visions and ideas to not have put in DP. Think very very carefully here. I will post again if I feel the need to further this point, but that's enough for now from to show my agreement with this poster. Thanks for letting me post here.
That's what Blizzard found out from their 96% "part time" players from WoW. They hated the DP's and they were the 'bread 'n butter' for Blizzard. Blizzard learned the hard way. Lets hope Cryptic checked that out if not already made obvious enough in that MMO's game hosts circle to be aware of this. The more I play this STO the less I get respawn options shown to me. And respawn makes me feel lousy enough to know ( by myself ) I failed. I don't need all you DP advocates/supporters to have a say that I should be punish when you'er not there to glee for my mistakes. That's just plain sick-*ss to ask for such frustrations on other players enjoying the no DP the way it currently is, especially if they're new players joining STO. Someone said almost all other MMO's have some form of Death Penalties? If everyone puts jumper cables on themselves and hook it to their car batteries and starts it, should I also? Sorry, I didn't want to use that 'everyone jumps off the cliff lines'.
Anyway, what you want of DP do it on your own STO account and play time, so more power to you. I didn't buy this game and pay STO membership to please your in game death-penalty-wish to please you. That's plain idiotic to think I bought this game for other gamers, too. We all got this game for each of us so don't be asking to punish other players who don't agree to this DP ideas of yours.
Cryptic - Please make it available for these DP advocates as an OPTIONAL and not force it for your majority of quiet and contented players who shared your original visions and ideas to not have put in DP. Think very very carefully here. I will post again if I feel the need to further this point, but that's enough for now from to show my agreement with this poster. Thanks for letting me post here.
There Original Vision SOUND SWEET Your Loot Slot's was Based on your Ship Hold, Your BO's could DIE (DP) if they Died to many time's in a time frame. Of corse there Original Vision that ppl didn't want to work on someone else ship was TRIBBLE 9 so I'm Gald they Listen to the ppl that Pay there Bill's. But if they really want us to Help them they need a POLL that everyone can Vote on what they would add for each Update and for the 1st Expenstion. Then No one can ***** when they say hey we are change this and adding this. True or False? (It is True)
I love STO right now, I find it a lot of fun to play and don't see the need to enact broad or severe Death Penalties. I have not found people behaving recklessly so much as I find most random people that I group with being overly cautious and letting other people go first into combat. People behave like there's a death penalty already.
I really wish that Cryptic had put a question about Death Penalties on the recent customer survey. I think that would've gone much further towards showing how many people in the customer base really think that we need one. I would've marked a resounding No.
Be that as it may, it sounds like its a ways off, so let's continue to debate this. I think there's a happy medium somewhere.
As to the other items in the post, more diplomacy, fixing the "Aid the Planet" missions, and all the ship/crew modifications coming sound really awesome and more in line with Trek.
As someone said earlier, Star Trek is not about finding the most effective ways to slaughter things, and right now I'd say that's the biggest failing of STO is having too much emphasis on combat (and thus very likely making people think that a death penalty is the way to curb overly rapid character progression)
The problem with giving an option like that is it would have to be a total re write of the code for Cryptic. The last time I saw a massive redo of an MMO, it took about three days for a mass exodus and SWG hasn't recovered from that. That option IMHO is out of the question. Death Penalties are not useful and do not make the game better, just the opposite. There is NO simple way to give everyone what they want. I agree that difficulty is needed in most if not all missions, (Crystal Entity not included, in fact it needs to be tamed down a bit as it is a bit too difficult for the level it should be done.)
Right now STO feels like a chat room with a single player game melded to it. the true and only viable way to make it more is to fix the grouping and make the questlines more group friendly by getting rid of the auto group feature and tuning up the foes with better AI and level. This would give the game a better MMO feel and the players a bigger sense of accomplishment. The cat is out of the bag now and to change the fundamental gameplay is a good way to doom the entire project. If a death penalty is implemented, it should apply to everyone, not a choice for some with a carrot on a stick of better gear , etc. The players should not be able to decide this, it should be a wholly dev run show. Otherwise the game would become imbalanced and unplayable for anyone who plays casually. Whiney little gits who have nothing to do but sit around and play games all day need to go out and get a real life and quit crying about death penalties and why there is no end-game for them, because the game was too easy for them. It's these attitudes that turn the really good MMO's into trash.
I agree the game is too easy and not varied enough, but I believe that Cryptic has a good foundation set and just needs to tweak the system a bit to make it better. There really is no need to make it into EVE or WOW because those games don't really apply here. If they did, STO would have been stillborn.
I paid for this game too and bought a Lifetime sub because of what I saw in beta. They have already changed the game ALOT between then and now and I don't see a need to take it further away from the true vision of Trek, which is first and formost exploration and conflict resolution, not how badly you can destroy your opponent.
I actually like this idea for a DP and would willingly accept it
So Thrakensal, base on your evalulation I'd say you support NO DP either. Am sure you played a lot more MMO's than I have since my last MMO's were "Rainbow 6, Diablo II, and Armada II. Back in those days when playing Rainbow 6 the T1 ( college/business bandwidth ) hosts who gets 16 players ( the most back then. lol ) use me as one of his assault go to guy, so I understand the DP thinking here to play smart to stay alive. If you die there you wait out till the last player on your side win it for the team or not. If you suck, the T1 host not use you again. Simple as that. DII was more annoying with PK's players as a form of death penalties. Armada II was waited out if you lose. Yep, I took a long long hihatus from MMO's or gaming in general, but STO attracted me since I was always admirer of Gene Rodenberry works on ST and STNG.
Now on this STO, I was about to do a lifetime subscriber deal, too - for real, but I got this notes from the producer of STO like everyone did on the DP deal that made me question whether am buying this game and paying STO membership for ME or for these DP fanatics. Did you and I buy this game and STO membership for other players or for our own playing pleasure?
Base on what you said I'd say no DP -- period -- if not made optional for DP players somehow while keeping the NO DP as default for the rest of us. And I know the 'rest of us' non-DP are the majority of 'bread and butter' financial supporters of STO. Am I right?
Every player calling for a DP must be playing EvE.
Losing everything to start over and buy / make everything you need is silly.
I think the EvE players are calling for DP so people say why should I play STO if I have to buy everything everytime I die so I may as well stay in EvE since I have a way to make money and get my stuff back faster.
EvE wants STO to FAIL... Remember That Cryptic....Remember That!
There Original Vision SOUND SWEET Your Loot Slot's was Based on your Ship Hold, Your BO's could DIE (DP) if they Died to many time's in a time frame. Of corse there Original Vision that ppl didn't want to work on someone else ship was TRIBBLE 9 so I'm Gald they Listen to the ppl that Pay there Bill's. But if they really want us to Help them they need a POLL that everyone can Vote on what they would add for each Update and for the 1st Expenstion. Then No one can ***** when they say hey we are change this and adding this. True or False? (It is True)
Yes, agrees. First thing I was ( looking for ) was anything for me to vote or checked the box about YES/NO on DP. Funny thing was, I must have been blind to not see it on what was asked us on those questionairs.
Glad to hear it gentlemen. I won't return my copy of the game. Sadly i haven't had the opportunity to play it, but once I can I will and my four friends will never hear from me again!!!!
To add to the list of suggestions
-Open axis flight
That's all I really care about right now. Realistic space play
Ok, since thse DP supporters don't think 'outside the box' in their DP craze frenzies, here's an idea...
CRYPTIC,
Instead of employing the DP status to what you already worked long and hard on, why not just make it so that any STO paying members playing this gets a MARKER on their ship/player identity to show how many days they've stayed alive without respawn! That would show rest of us how good they are, and please make it so that any game/comp cheating wizzards( cheat-geeks ) don't try anything funny to make themselves look cool to rest of us in there ( if we really care how they look to us, that is ). So how about this? Easier to add this on a patch to show a long seasoned STO players survival skills by showing ( how long ) their ship and character survived without last being respawn. Happy, everyone???
Like an ace pilots gets an enemy's flag painted on the side of their fighter plane showing how many bogeys( enemy's planes ) they've shot down. Get it?
In this STO format, I say 30 or 60 or a (100 days/missions) without getting respawn by ground or/and space battles get a Medal PIN on their identity/ship 'flag' and No. like : = A = 2 ... means Survived 200 missions without any respawning. Or show for ground/space missions = G2 = / = S3 = : Which means he/she and their crew survived 200 ground battles without respawn; and 300 space battles/encounters without respawn, so on so forth ... You all get it?
Great alternative to DP and makes EVERYONE in STO happy.
Cryptic, this should be TRIED first before the lethal DP injections method. Agrees, folks? :cool:
That was an awesome post and the timing could not be better! I too was wavering but your candidness has really helped, I only hope you continue to make these post's as it MORE than sheds light on what is happening your end and how you truly feel about us/this game and how seriously you are taking it. But please keep those post's coming
Also the survey was a great idea again I really hope you do it many more times as I really felt it was contructive feedback i was able to give you. I felt better just filling it in right after reading your post here.
You know I wasn't an advocate of the death penalty, my reason for that are simpy that i felt the penatly was that of feeling totally dissapointed in myself when teamed up with people and i die..ok i dont get punished but i punish myself..no one likes losing and thats how it feels dying! Having said that if the majority want the death penalty then fine I can live with that. I would love to see ALOT more missions and various paths to leveing etc.
and as someone so aptly wrote in a thread i read: "some real command decisions with consequences"
There were some questions in the survey where i could only put one answer that was hard! hehe simply because some of the things suggested were really good and choosing just one felt a bit wrong. Like chosing between more diplomatic mission or faimiliar characters or alien planets..wow I want them all!
But it is plain to see you are listening, that goes a long way with me and i think from the responses here many others too.
I would definatley love a wider array of mission and different ways to compete them, even when levelled it would be great as part of "end game" if there were story mission to do still(i mean not just raidisodes but missions like we are doing to level), even if the rewards were somewhat different from xp.
Great ideas, great post thank you for listening and coming out and talking to us so frankly, it is what has been missing and im not shy to say the things you announced have gotten me excited lol..please dont stop
I wont reactivate my copy of WOW thank God. Although the game had a few hickups at launch, now I get a very pleasant gaming experience! The promises for new content, ships and most importantly for environment make me very happy. I would love to be able to explore more of my ship. Or even run missions on it.
There is one request I would like it to be heard in this thread too:
"PLEASE MAKE A MAC CLIENT!!!"
I hate that I have to bootcamp every time I want to play...
I just love the updates you guys have been doing. However, I have a list full of uniforms I saved on my characters and BOs suits. Would it be that hard to add a delete button? You are already 80% there all you need is the 20% more. By the way, if I am wrong about removing uniforms, then please correct my wrongness. Nonetheless, I stand by my case.
Firstly I'd like to make note that "Zinc" shall henceforth be known as Mr. Good Humour.
Secondly I'm glad to see that respec'ing was at the top of the list of things that need to be addressed. Admittedly I was dismayed that the ability to respec wasn't available period. And that ground Auto-Fire wasn't available period anymore. But I assumed there was a good reason for both issues so that's good enough for me.
As for Death Penalty I am neither for nor against it. While skimming through the previous posts on this topic I saw something about showing a "Time/Date Since Last Death". That piqued my interest. Wasn't a bad idea at all actually.
I will say this, without a DP I charge into every hostile engagement cannons blasting and photons hailing. Meanwhile, I pay no attention to my shield/hull strengths until the message "Defeat" pops up. There's no DP so why should I care if I'm boom'd? For me self preservation is an aspect of this MMO I'm not concerned about because there's no reason to be. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing...
Lastly, I just want to thank Mr. Zinkievich and the entire team at Cryptic for giving us something to look forward to. Even if some of us aren't willing to admit it.
I really don't understand why so many people get crazy over this death penalty. I thought the timer on the re-spawn was a great idea. Or what, you want your favorite football stars to be executed if they drop the ball? I love the game and I think the ideas Cryptic implemented are wonderful. It's about time someone did something different.
I'm still fairly new to STO, but having loads of fun so far.
I'll give you some thoughts...
* Respec
Thank you! When I first started, I had no idea what I was doing and put points into things I wasn't sure what was what. A respec is needed!
* Death Penalty
Not the biggest fan. I've played quite a few MMOs which have Death Penalties, such as World of Warcraft(their DP isn't that bad, to be honest. But their method/system would seem horribly out of place in a Trek-based game), Guild Wars(one of the worst DPs I've encountered. Only way around it was with candy canes, only available during one holiday, but otherwise sold by players for obscene prices), and City of Heroes(don't remember what that DP was). Personally, I'm fine with it being involved with the Difficulty Slider, so I can just play basic, simple Star Trek and have fun. Being 'penalized' after someone in your open instance team races into a big pack of enemy ships then drags em back to you looking for help... no.
Also... pvp. I haven't participated in much of this yet, thankfully. I enjoyed WoW pvp for awhile, but balancing these systems is inherently impossible. Too many variables involved. For instance, RA-level Escorts with high-end weaponry installed can hull an enemy ship from full shields in about five seconds, if played right. Conversely, Escorts die far too easy, especially in a game with auto-targeting. The lack of a Z-axis in the supposedly 3-dimensional environment of space heavily limits the true maneuverability of an Escort. Meanwhile, we have Cruisers who need half the solar system to turn around... their inability to turn fresh shields to an attacker means they're going to die.
If this cannot be balanced(and we all know it can't be, not in a class-system, with variables like player skill, crew skill points/ranks), then I believe a Death Penalty has no place in this game.
* Difficulty Slider
It would be a looooong time before I made use of a difficulty slider. But I am not adverse to it's use, especially if the 'must have' Death Penalty is tied to increased difficulty settings.
* More open auto-fire
I'm for this, and at the same time, not so sure. If there were 'controls' put in place that would allow you to designate a target for auto fire, as opposed to 'Fire at Will', then I'm good with this change. Otherwise, I've encountered a few too many issues with the AI being kind of wonky.
Running the ground mission prior to the space combat where you encounter the Doomsday Machine, my science officer had a nasty habit of; while in the midst of combat with one pack of Klingons, this airhead would run off and start blasting at another pack of Klingons. Which, of course, had TWO Swordmasters. I HATE Swordmasters.
All that aside, some of the only issues I've had are with NPC AI(Namely my away team), like explained just above.
While NPC leashing is good, there needs to be some leeway. I kept maneuvering for better angles on some Klingon NPCs(again, Doomsday ground mission phase), only to have the NPCs 'leash', disappear, reset and heal back to full. As a blaster type(Dual Pistols) in closer range combat, this is painful to deal with, as a lack of maneuverability will just get me killed.
Some form of bonus to defense or dodge would be beneficial for partial/full cover, such as using building corners, large rocks, trees, and/or ridges. Instead, all too often, they just shoot through the building/rock/ree or ridge.
I've noticed a 'new' issue today, involving weapon switching in combat. Often, when I see an enemy get exposed, I'll switch from my dual pistols to my sniper, target the exposed baddie, and vape them. However, seemingly since today, while fighting with dual pistols, and attempting to switch weapons(Z-hotkey), it just keeps auto firing with the pistols, absolutely REFUSING to switch to my rifle.
Last but not least, I'd be appreciative for some team/squad mechanics for ground combat. Half the time, it seems, my team isn't doing anything(not rally pointed) while I'm the only one shooting. It can't seem to figure out how to hotkey away team commands, and most of the time, I'm too busy moving around trying to stay alive to move up to click the tiny team command buttons.
Not really concerned about anything in that post. Need some sort of formal reply in the next State of the Game about pricing changes, free game days, and why they hold back content to "test" when they put out broken fleet actions.
I dislike bashing Cryptic (or bashing in general, devs deal with enough TRIBBLE), but... really? It's a bit much. An upbeat tone is not going to make up for the fact that we need something more concrete than "it's coming" at this point.
There's no DP so why should I care if I'm boom'd? For me self preservation is an aspect of this MMO I'm not concerned about because there's no reason to be.
because when you get bumped, your friends die a lot faster. How about every time you "die" the entire mission or fleet action completely resets? Because I think that is sort of what they had in mind. Dieing takes you out of that round and the team loses an asset. There is the penalty. But forcing someone to play extra hours to earn credits to pay a repair bill... sorry, I work all day and I don't find that entertaining or enjoyable. But c'est la vie. If Cryptic changes the game I'll either like it or not. Right now I am loving it and I hope to keep on loving it. \\//(^_^)
Comments
There NEEDS to be a death penalty to add that sense of fear. Just a small time-based one that makes dying a negative enough experience that you don't want to intentionally ram your ship into something each time your shields and hull are almost gone. As we all know it is faster to do so than to regen. Right now I don't care either way if I live or die.
How about something as simple as respawning with 0 energy, 0 crew, and 0 shields with a 15 second invincibility to give yourself enough time to warp out if you get spawn camped.
Punish us with TIME, but don't make us buy anything, chase corpses, or go repair somewhere. That will just break the pace of the game.
So the only PVP leveling is done in klingon...I think not. Fed and Klingon both can level via PVP so the death penalty no applying to them is redicoulous, Why should the expores and those who go thru the content be penalized. I don't think they should.
Explain what tactics you are refering to...going in guns blazing....where do you get off.
you have 4-6 ships all a level or 2 above you...explain what martial tactics you know that know one else does. Please......move out of your parents basement...experience real life then talk to me about tactics.
DP is a bad idea.
I'm glad to know that YOU guys know that WE(the users) are what are drives the progress of this game. And I sppreciatte that recognition. Just keep on hearing us out and we'll keep lashing you for your faults and hugging you for your awesomeness.
Go to Warp 9 Mr. Sulu.....
I've been in situations where a death penalty would have seriously caused me some trouble. For example, the random map encounters and running into a flagship, then respawning after dying on top of the flagship, getting killed again, and only breaking out of that cycle by the mission timer resetting. Or getting creamed by multiple higher-level players despite trying different tactics.
I suppose an extremely limited death penalty would be okay, as overlordtom said. Something which delays getting back in the fight if you don't want to just die again. But nothing more severe than the "penalty" for surviving, so that it's just an equalizer and not an actual detriment. And it's not really necessary for PvE, which already sets you back some distance and usually lets the enemy ships heal to full.
LoL so the childish get out the basement line
Where do you get 4-6 ships, Solo? 3 Frigates maybe and 1 of those can be taken out in seconds and the other 2 fall shortly after. A BS is no different. If you use your grey matter they can be taken out without loosing any shields what so ever.
Have to be quick. Talking from an engineer point of view with escort.
Jam, Take down shields, Rotate shield freq, Use cannons, Tracktpr, Use Power to shields if needed (Not a lot), Kill. Its not rocket science and the tactic is sound for nearly every mob in STO.
Anyway my argument is not for forced DP but for optional. For those that want to use it we should be rewarded with better loot and XP for the ramp in difficulty over the carebare settting.
Death Penalty, exploring ship interiors, more interesting exploration missions.
Maybe Klingons even will become a complete race. PLEASE add more clothing options to female Klingons, we only have one pair of boots.
Did I overlook it or will the skilltree NOT be modified so SP cap doesn't cripple you that much?
I agree, but those of us who are HAPPY with the game, and like it THE WAY IT IS, aren't going to be on here saying stuff. So then they're likely to change the game based on the complaints of a vocal minority, and then it's going to TRIBBLE up the game for those of us who like it HOW IT IS NOW.
Look. If you're going to add a game feature: MAKE THE SHIPS BE ABLE TO TURN 360 DEGREES IN ALL DIRECTIONS. THEY ARE FREAKING SPACE SHIPS. If you can't figure out how to do that mathematically within your game engine, then here's a clue: QUATERNIONS.
Also. TAKE THE CLOUDS OUT OF OUTER SPACE. TAKE THE ASTEROIDS OUT FROM AROUND MOST EVERY FREAKING PLANET. Thank you!
- Signed, STO players for the realistic visual rendering & navigation of space.
- OR AT LEAST THE OPTION
The problem with giving an option like that is it would have to be a total re write of the code for Cryptic. The last time I saw a massive redo of an MMO, it took about three days for a mass exodus and SWG hasn't recovered from that. That option IMHO is out of the question. Death Penalties are not useful and do not make the game better, just the opposite. There is NO simple way to give everyone what they want. I agree that difficulty is needed in most if not all missions, (Crystal Entity not included, in fact it needs to be tamed down a bit as it is a bit too difficult for the level it should be done.)
Right now STO feels like a chat room with a single player game melded to it. the true and only viable way to make it more is to fix the grouping and make the questlines more group friendly by getting rid of the auto group feature and tuning up the foes with better AI and level. This would give the game a better MMO feel and the players a bigger sense of accomplishment. The cat is out of the bag now and to change the fundamental gameplay is a good way to doom the entire project. If a death penalty is implemented, it should apply to everyone, not a choice for some with a carrot on a stick of better gear , etc. The players should not be able to decide this, it should be a wholly dev run show. Otherwise the game would become imbalanced and unplayable for anyone who plays casually. Whiney little gits who have nothing to do but sit around and play games all day need to go out and get a real life and quit crying about death penalties and why there is no end-game for them, because the game was too easy for them. It's these attitudes that turn the really good MMO's into trash.
I agree the game is too easy and not varied enough, but I believe that Cryptic has a good foundation set and just needs to tweak the system a bit to make it better. There really is no need to make it into EVE or WOW because those games don't really apply here. If they did, STO would have been stillborn.
I paid for this game too and bought a Lifetime sub because of what I saw in beta. They have already changed the game ALOT between then and now and I don't see a need to take it further away from the true vision of Trek, which is first and formost exploration and conflict resolution, not how badly you can destroy your opponent.
I actually like this idea for a DP and would willingly accept it
Anyway, what you want of DP do it on your own STO account and play time, so more power to you. I didn't buy this game and pay STO membership to please your in game death-penalty-wish to please you. That's plain idiotic to think I bought this game for other gamers, too. We all got this game for each of us so don't be asking to punish other players who don't agree to this DP ideas of yours.
Cryptic - Please make it available for these DP advocates as an OPTIONAL and not force it for your majority of quiet and contented players who shared your original visions and ideas to not have put in DP. Think very very carefully here. I will post again if I feel the need to further this point, but that's enough for now from to show my agreement with this poster. Thanks for letting me post here.
There Original Vision SOUND SWEET Your Loot Slot's was Based on your Ship Hold, Your BO's could DIE (DP) if they Died to many time's in a time frame. Of corse there Original Vision that ppl didn't want to work on someone else ship was TRIBBLE 9 so I'm Gald they Listen to the ppl that Pay there Bill's. But if they really want us to Help them they need a POLL that everyone can Vote on what they would add for each Update and for the 1st Expenstion. Then No one can ***** when they say hey we are change this and adding this. True or False? (It is True)
I really wish that Cryptic had put a question about Death Penalties on the recent customer survey. I think that would've gone much further towards showing how many people in the customer base really think that we need one. I would've marked a resounding No.
Be that as it may, it sounds like its a ways off, so let's continue to debate this. I think there's a happy medium somewhere.
As to the other items in the post, more diplomacy, fixing the "Aid the Planet" missions, and all the ship/crew modifications coming sound really awesome and more in line with Trek.
As someone said earlier, Star Trek is not about finding the most effective ways to slaughter things, and right now I'd say that's the biggest failing of STO is having too much emphasis on combat (and thus very likely making people think that a death penalty is the way to curb overly rapid character progression)
Just my two cents.
Now on this STO, I was about to do a lifetime subscriber deal, too - for real, but I got this notes from the producer of STO like everyone did on the DP deal that made me question whether am buying this game and paying STO membership for ME or for these DP fanatics. Did you and I buy this game and STO membership for other players or for our own playing pleasure?
Base on what you said I'd say no DP -- period -- if not made optional for DP players somehow while keeping the NO DP as default for the rest of us. And I know the 'rest of us' non-DP are the majority of 'bread and butter' financial supporters of STO. Am I right?
Losing everything to start over and buy / make everything you need is silly.
I think the EvE players are calling for DP so people say why should I play STO if I have to buy everything everytime I die so I may as well stay in EvE since I have a way to make money and get my stuff back faster.
EvE wants STO to FAIL... Remember That Cryptic....Remember That!
To add to the list of suggestions
-Open axis flight
That's all I really care about right now. Realistic space play
CRYPTIC,
Instead of employing the DP status to what you already worked long and hard on, why not just make it so that any STO paying members playing this gets a MARKER on their ship/player identity to show how many days they've stayed alive without respawn! That would show rest of us how good they are, and please make it so that any game/comp cheating wizzards( cheat-geeks ) don't try anything funny to make themselves look cool to rest of us in there ( if we really care how they look to us, that is ). So how about this? Easier to add this on a patch to show a long seasoned STO players survival skills by showing ( how long ) their ship and character survived without last being respawn. Happy, everyone???
Like an ace pilots gets an enemy's flag painted on the side of their fighter plane showing how many bogeys( enemy's planes ) they've shot down. Get it?
In this STO format, I say 30 or 60 or a (100 days/missions) without getting respawn by ground or/and space battles get a Medal PIN on their identity/ship 'flag' and No. like : = A = 2 ... means Survived 200 missions without any respawning. Or show for ground/space missions = G2 = / = S3 = : Which means he/she and their crew survived 200 ground battles without respawn; and 300 space battles/encounters without respawn, so on so forth ... You all get it?
Great alternative to DP and makes EVERYONE in STO happy.
Cryptic, this should be TRIED first before the lethal DP injections method. Agrees, folks? :cool:
Also the survey was a great idea again I really hope you do it many more times as I really felt it was contructive feedback i was able to give you. I felt better just filling it in right after reading your post here.
You know I wasn't an advocate of the death penalty, my reason for that are simpy that i felt the penatly was that of feeling totally dissapointed in myself when teamed up with people and i die..ok i dont get punished but i punish myself..no one likes losing and thats how it feels dying! Having said that if the majority want the death penalty then fine I can live with that. I would love to see ALOT more missions and various paths to leveing etc.
and as someone so aptly wrote in a thread i read: "some real command decisions with consequences"
There were some questions in the survey where i could only put one answer that was hard! hehe simply because some of the things suggested were really good and choosing just one felt a bit wrong. Like chosing between more diplomatic mission or faimiliar characters or alien planets..wow I want them all!
But it is plain to see you are listening, that goes a long way with me and i think from the responses here many others too.
I would definatley love a wider array of mission and different ways to compete them, even when levelled it would be great as part of "end game" if there were story mission to do still(i mean not just raidisodes but missions like we are doing to level), even if the rewards were somewhat different from xp.
Great ideas, great post thank you for listening and coming out and talking to us so frankly, it is what has been missing and im not shy to say the things you announced have gotten me excited lol..please dont stop
I wont reactivate my copy of WOW thank God. Although the game had a few hickups at launch, now I get a very pleasant gaming experience! The promises for new content, ships and most importantly for environment make me very happy. I would love to be able to explore more of my ship. Or even run missions on it.
There is one request I would like it to be heard in this thread too:
"PLEASE MAKE A MAC CLIENT!!!"
I hate that I have to bootcamp every time I want to play...
I just love the updates you guys have been doing. However, I have a list full of uniforms I saved on my characters and BOs suits. Would it be that hard to add a delete button? You are already 80% there all you need is the 20% more. By the way, if I am wrong about removing uniforms, then please correct my wrongness. Nonetheless, I stand by my case.
Firstly I'd like to make note that "Zinc" shall henceforth be known as Mr. Good Humour.
Secondly I'm glad to see that respec'ing was at the top of the list of things that need to be addressed. Admittedly I was dismayed that the ability to respec wasn't available period. And that ground Auto-Fire wasn't available period anymore. But I assumed there was a good reason for both issues so that's good enough for me.
As for Death Penalty I am neither for nor against it. While skimming through the previous posts on this topic I saw something about showing a "Time/Date Since Last Death". That piqued my interest. Wasn't a bad idea at all actually.
I will say this, without a DP I charge into every hostile engagement cannons blasting and photons hailing. Meanwhile, I pay no attention to my shield/hull strengths until the message "Defeat" pops up. There's no DP so why should I care if I'm boom'd? For me self preservation is an aspect of this MMO I'm not concerned about because there's no reason to be. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing...
Lastly, I just want to thank Mr. Zinkievich and the entire team at Cryptic for giving us something to look forward to. Even if some of us aren't willing to admit it.
Cheerz
I'll give you some thoughts...
Thank you! When I first started, I had no idea what I was doing and put points into things I wasn't sure what was what. A respec is needed!
Not the biggest fan. I've played quite a few MMOs which have Death Penalties, such as World of Warcraft(their DP isn't that bad, to be honest. But their method/system would seem horribly out of place in a Trek-based game), Guild Wars(one of the worst DPs I've encountered. Only way around it was with candy canes, only available during one holiday, but otherwise sold by players for obscene prices), and City of Heroes(don't remember what that DP was). Personally, I'm fine with it being involved with the Difficulty Slider, so I can just play basic, simple Star Trek and have fun. Being 'penalized' after someone in your open instance team races into a big pack of enemy ships then drags em back to you looking for help... no.
Also... pvp. I haven't participated in much of this yet, thankfully. I enjoyed WoW pvp for awhile, but balancing these systems is inherently impossible. Too many variables involved. For instance, RA-level Escorts with high-end weaponry installed can hull an enemy ship from full shields in about five seconds, if played right. Conversely, Escorts die far too easy, especially in a game with auto-targeting. The lack of a Z-axis in the supposedly 3-dimensional environment of space heavily limits the true maneuverability of an Escort. Meanwhile, we have Cruisers who need half the solar system to turn around... their inability to turn fresh shields to an attacker means they're going to die.
If this cannot be balanced(and we all know it can't be, not in a class-system, with variables like player skill, crew skill points/ranks), then I believe a Death Penalty has no place in this game.
It would be a looooong time before I made use of a difficulty slider. But I am not adverse to it's use, especially if the 'must have' Death Penalty is tied to increased difficulty settings.
I'm for this, and at the same time, not so sure. If there were 'controls' put in place that would allow you to designate a target for auto fire, as opposed to 'Fire at Will', then I'm good with this change. Otherwise, I've encountered a few too many issues with the AI being kind of wonky.
Running the ground mission prior to the space combat where you encounter the Doomsday Machine, my science officer had a nasty habit of; while in the midst of combat with one pack of Klingons, this airhead would run off and start blasting at another pack of Klingons. Which, of course, had TWO Swordmasters. I HATE Swordmasters.
All that aside, some of the only issues I've had are with NPC AI(Namely my away team), like explained just above.
While NPC leashing is good, there needs to be some leeway. I kept maneuvering for better angles on some Klingon NPCs(again, Doomsday ground mission phase), only to have the NPCs 'leash', disappear, reset and heal back to full. As a blaster type(Dual Pistols) in closer range combat, this is painful to deal with, as a lack of maneuverability will just get me killed.
Some form of bonus to defense or dodge would be beneficial for partial/full cover, such as using building corners, large rocks, trees, and/or ridges. Instead, all too often, they just shoot through the building/rock/ree or ridge.
I've noticed a 'new' issue today, involving weapon switching in combat. Often, when I see an enemy get exposed, I'll switch from my dual pistols to my sniper, target the exposed baddie, and vape them. However, seemingly since today, while fighting with dual pistols, and attempting to switch weapons(Z-hotkey), it just keeps auto firing with the pistols, absolutely REFUSING to switch to my rifle.
Last but not least, I'd be appreciative for some team/squad mechanics for ground combat. Half the time, it seems, my team isn't doing anything(not rally pointed) while I'm the only one shooting. It can't seem to figure out how to hotkey away team commands, and most of the time, I'm too busy moving around trying to stay alive to move up to click the tiny team command buttons.
I dislike bashing Cryptic (or bashing in general, devs deal with enough TRIBBLE), but... really? It's a bit much. An upbeat tone is not going to make up for the fact that we need something more concrete than "it's coming" at this point.
because when you get bumped, your friends die a lot faster. How about every time you "die" the entire mission or fleet action completely resets? Because I think that is sort of what they had in mind. Dieing takes you out of that round and the team loses an asset. There is the penalty. But forcing someone to play extra hours to earn credits to pay a repair bill... sorry, I work all day and I don't find that entertaining or enjoyable. But c'est la vie. If Cryptic changes the game I'll either like it or not. Right now I am loving it and I hope to keep on loving it. \\//(^_^)