With vert synch off and no maxfps I suspect that a lot of GPUS are being redlined and are as a result heating up as they attempt to reach infinite fps.
Working as intended.
Without any sort of frame limiting, ALL game clients will just use DirectX API for commands, and DirectX will communicate with the video card drivers to render frames. Hello! Almost every game client is going to function this way unless some sort of frame rendering limit is defined.
There is no such thing as a GPU being "redlined". This is computer technology, not high-school shop class with engine maintenance/repair.
This game is glitched. It keeps constantly lagging and bouncing between 30-60-100% on my i7 core 920 then that causes the fps to stall for a second when it jumps every 3-4 seconds. When the CPU isn't going crazy the FPS are fine.
I have 9 gigs of ddr3, a Geforce 260 and a i7 core 920. When not running STO I use about 1% of the CPU with my Windows 7 64bit setup. 30%-100% cup bouncing is not normal, maybe that is why so many people are overheating.
Sorry, it's a badly chosen expression. I forget that metaphors are often taken literally outside of the UK. For "redlined" read "worked to their maximum capability, or GPU/CPU utilised at 100%". Whatever you want to call it the nett effect is that the card generates more heat.
I am also not saying it is or is not working as intended - I didn't write the code so I dont know what the developers intended.
My post was merely to suggest one possible reason as to why some people were seeing increases in heat related issues and why some people on similar or less powered rigs were not seeing those same issues and what I found worked in resolving the heat issue for me.
"STO like most games... blah blah 100% CPU/GPU... blah blah everything is fine, your comp is dirty and you overclocked it and you don't even have enough fans"
Either:
1) They believe this TRIBBLE they're saying in wich case they are plain incompetent.
2) They are cynical pieces of **** and know their game is TRIBBLE but just want to grab money as long as it lasts.
Sorry, it's a badly chosen expression. I forget that metaphors are often taken literally outside of the UK. For "redlined" read "worked to their maximum capability, or GPU/CPU utilised at 100%". Whatever you want to call it the nett effect is that the card generates more heat.
I am also not saying it is or is not working as intended - I didn't write the code so I dont know what the developers intended.
My post was merely to suggest one possible reason as to why some people were seeing increases in heat related issues and why some people on similar or less powered rigs were not seeing those same issues and what I found worked in resolving the heat issue for me.
I agree that this is most likely an indirect part of the equation why people's PCs are overheating. Not the cause of the overheating issue, but something that is controllable by setting vertical sync or maxfps for overheating PCs with a video card at full load.
As for redlining, that metaphor is flawed. It implies that something should only run near or past redline for a limited amount of time. CPUs and GPUs can run at 100% for extended periods of time, such as months or even years without problems if they're adequately cooled. Servers do this all of the time, even with dedicated GPU floating-point calculations (NVIDIA has their own line of GPU-based servers). Hence, literal or metaphorically, it's a flawed statement.
Lots of discussion regarding the stability issues of STO are revolved around overheating PC parts. Overheating cant be the reason why STO keeps crashing on my system during ground combat. I have GPU monitor overlay on at all times when I play, and my GPU temperature is mostly sitting at safe 70-73 celsius. So whatever is causing these crashes, its not my hardware BUT SOMETHING IN THE GAME ITSELF.
I hope I wont have to get an Nvidia card to make the game playable..
Lots of discussion regarding the stability issues of STO are revolved around overheating PC parts. Overheating cant be the reason why STO keeps crashing on my system during ground combat. I have GPU monitor overlay on at all times when I play, and my GPU temperature is mostly sitting at safe 70-73 celsius. So whatever is causing these crashes, its not my hardware BUT SOMETHING IN THE GAME ITSELF.
I hope I wont have to get an Nvidia card to make the game playable..
I've come to the conclusion that it can't be a hardware related issue at all, simply because far too many people are experiencing the problem, with no matching circumstances.
This has to be a problem in the code. That's the only constant.
I'd just like to add my voice to the many others here experiencing issues.
I'm running:
Win7 x86
2GB memory
Athlon 64 X2 3800+
ASUS AN8 Ultra mobo
ATI 4850 graphics card
Soundblaster Audigy.
No problems with temp or fans or dust or any of that other stuff. Everything else runs without problems, I work in IT and deal with hardware and software issues daily. I know what I'm doing so no flamers please.
In OB and early start the game would crash out frequently with my graphics card heating up rapidly in game (even in character selection screen if left on too long - seriously?! :-s). Limiting the FPS and turning down the detail helped somewhat - but why should I have to? I used Catalyst drivers 9.11, 9.12 and 10.1 but all acted the same. I had to underclock my graphics card to play this one game.
Then the game stopped crashing from I think Monday 1st. I could play for hours at a time, day after day, with no problems, even with my card heating up higher than it had reached when I was having all the problems.
Now the bad news - ever since the patch yesterday (5th Feb) it's back to how it was in OB. Frequent crashes out of the game and PC shutting down.
Use any kind of troubleshooting methodology you want, but if you follow the facts from this and other detailed posts in this thread, this points to a problem with the game software. It is causing a large percentage of graphics cards to "freak out". That's a technical term there. And it needs to be acknowledged as a problem, pinned down and fixed!
It is so frustrating because this is a game I'm really enjoying but I and many others are not getting value for money at the moment.
If it was bad code, it would affect all the computers it ran on, not just a few select people. Just saying.
Run OCCT or an equivalent benchmark that can peg your GPU at 100%. If STO runs hotter than OCCT then maybe you have a valid argument.
lemme clarify something here
its not GPU temps, but Voltage-Regulator [VRM] temps that i guarantee are causing 99% of the problems
now some of you may be having high GPU temps, but if youve ever seen the thermal-paste jobs from factory GPUs, its no wonder some experience heat issues
but anyways... games should NOT be hitting Furmark temps.... ever !
Furmark temps on my VRMs 100c... vRegulators temps on STO.... 102c and im using IC diamond thermal-paste :eek:
not enough to cause me issues, but can imagine what it does to stock-cooled videocards
you can read where VRMs on certain cards can sustain/accept 125c.... thats BS first of all, youd prolly start to artifact at well before 125c, and brick before then as well
my video cards have full-coverage water-blocks [all in-game video settings max @1920x1200], but it was not the GPU temps that were high but the VRMs were pegging 99c/102c respectiveley, and my WC loop temps rose rather quickly. note: GPUs on a seperate WC loop than my CPU/NB. my case has excellent airflow, as their is not much Case temp
i play many many games.. crysis, cod... u name it, never has my VRM temps gone higher than 78c ! yet this game drives them to 99/102c
and have been building/selling custom water-cooled computers that have had tremendous success
am current record holder for overclocking Q6600 "watercooled stress stable" @ 4.8GHz
its not likely its GPU temps, but Voltage-Regulator temps
games should NOT be hitting Furmark temps.... ever !
Furmark temps on my VRAM 100c... VRAM temps on STO.... 102c :eek:
not enough to cause me issues, but can imagine what it does to stock-cooled videocards
you can read where VRAMs on certain cards can sustain 125c.... thats BS first of all, sustained temps in that range... WILL brick it quickly
my video cards have full-coverage water-blocks [all in-game video settings max @1920x1200], but it was not the GPU temps that were high but the VRAMS were pegging 99c/102c respectiveley, and my WC loop temps rose rather quickly. note: GPUs on a seperate WC loop than my CPU/NB. my case has excellent airflow, as their is not much Case temp
i play many many games.. crysis, cod... u name it, never has my VRAM temps gone higher than 78c ! yet this game drives them to 99/102c
and have been building/selling custom water-cooled computers that have had tremendous success
am current record holder for overclocking Q6600 "watercooled stress stable" @ 4.8GHz
Really? With no /maxfps commandline entered in on game boot (I use it cause it causes less wild framerate hiccups, not for heat issues), my card runs 100% load, my Radeon 5850 reaches 72C, my voltage modulators hit 60C, my Memory reaches 62C, and thats with 100% load
With /maxfps in a non-demanding scene it reaches 67C GPU, 58C mem, 58C voltage modulator, and thats working the card 80% load with 1920x1200 with 8xAA on and 16xAF
sorry, i was mistakenly using VRAM, when i should have been using VRM...
might cause people to confuse the two
run Furmark stress w/ GPU-Z for sensor-monitoring and compare GPU temp to VDDC [thats the GPUs VRMs] and MVDDC [memory VRMs] temps and tell me what your VRMs hit
i personally have never had a GPU-die that recorded higher temps than the VRMs
i should also probably mention my GPUs are overclocked from 850/975Mhz on GPU/MEM to 1000/1200MHz
is postprocessing on, do you have all settings maxed and enabled ?
i turned everything on and max just to see what my temps were from reading these posts, postprocessing does seem to be the major culprit
with all maxed and enabled aside from postprocessing, my VRMs dont go above 83c
im sure the 5xxx series is more efficient than the 4xxx series
I have to hard boot within 20 minutes of game because STO freezes my pc. I've tried every single forementioned fix suggestion... you name it... I've done it. Don't waste your time "tweeking" anything... the game is what it is.... miserable experience. Thankfull I decided not to get the lifetime subscription to Star Trek Offline.
To all you trolls who are about to say it is my computer... I love you! It's not my vid drivers, it's not my PSU, it's not corrupt file, its not disabling dynamic lighting, its not adjust my vid card performance slider, it's not my system specs, it's not AntiAliasing issue(exist?), it's not post processing, it's not anti-virus issue, it's not Vertical Sync, it's not Ambient Occlusion... it is on Cryptics side, end of story.
Where is the Fluffy support now Cryptic Devs? You want to fix this or not?
I have a brand new (2 week old) Alienware PC.....ATI Radeon 5870 video card, 4G memory, quad processor ......and my computer can't get past the loading screen 99% of the time without a crash and lock up?
For 85% of us I would have to say it is the GAME not dust in our PC or whatever excuse they are saying.
I'm very angry, bought the Collectors Edition of STO, might as well burned the $79.00 (plus tax).
Everytime there is a patch, I think, this time when I boot up this game is going to work..........NOT!!!
I have been playing PC games since 1990, and never had a problem like this. Even back in those old days of making a Boot Disk to get a game to work.
I know that we are all humans and aren't perfect ....put why doesn't someone somewhere from Crpytic (or Atari for that matter) say there are major problems with this game for many users??
How about my money back if you aren't willing to fix this game for the 85% of us that can't even play it?
Would a car dealer be allowed to sell a brand new car, and when the customer buys it and tries to drive it, the car doesn't work....what would happen with the car dealer?
I am very frustrated, I know it is only a game (and not a life or death issue).
But Cryptic/Atari if you can't or won't fix this game, I think we all should have our money refunded.
Isn't that the only fair and honest thiing to do??
So it's been a few days and my PC has developed a high pitch noise when loading/ thinking accompanied by a clicking/chirping sound, mostly when using an internet browser. I know this is related to the overheating issues, but should I replace my video card, or my power supply to get rid of the noises?
Also, when running STO both noises disappear completely. I can play in window mode and duplicate the actions which normally causes the noise but there is none with STO running.
Hey everyone - can anyone recommend a good program to monitor my computer temperature? I'm running STO on a Dell 1720 laptop with 4gb of RAM and an NVidia 8600GM graphics card. I don't know the "danger zone" for that card or my computer - can anyone give me a ballpark estimate? It gets pretty hot to the touch.
I agree that this is most likely an indirect part of the equation why people's PCs are overheating. Not the cause of the overheating issue, but something that is controllable by setting vertical sync or maxfps for overheating PCs with a video card at full load.
As for redlining, that metaphor is flawed. It implies that something should only run near or past redline for a limited amount of time. CPUs and GPUs can run at 100% for extended periods of time, such as months or even years without problems if they're adequately cooled. Servers do this all of the time, even with dedicated GPU floating-point calculations (NVIDIA has their own line of GPU-based servers). Hence, literal or metaphorically, it's a flawed statement.
In the simplest sense a gpu is a math processor, it expends energy completing circuits that solve equations. The complexity of equations and total equations performed in X time will have a known energy cost and thermal dissipation. It's possible for two games to run at 100% gpu load and have two completely different thermal costs, because their computations are different. Likewise, two different cards could have a different thermal cost for the same game because the number and size of circuits that need to be completed for the same equations would vary. It's a myth that all games are equal, and that all hardware is designed to run all games at 100%. Fact is, a lot of us have some damn nice hardware all cramped up in undercooled form factors (laptops) or simply can't get 'proper' cooling in our desktops.
The heat problems I experienced were obvious to using too-high settings combined with the lack of a work cap (e.g. Max FPS) and as a laptop user this proved that cooling is a problem for. Not much I can do from a hardware perspective.
Features such as ambient occlusion add a wealth of depth and polish to a scene, but the execution cost for the GPU increases significantly relative to scene complexity. The most heat generated wasn't when my GPU was at 100% gpu load at peak fps, it was when it was at 96% gpu load and my FPS were dropping from 160+ to ~31 because the card itself was in computational hell. Scene complexity was pushing the limit of the hardware, it isn't that the hardware can't run at 100% for extended periods, it's that it doesn't HAVE to to be a great game and doing so DOES cause some of us problems.
Anyway, what I wanted to say is that an FPS option needs to be implemented in-game via the Video Options UI. Arguing otherwise is silliness. Alternatively, we can lower a few settings and/or manually enter commands in-game to cap FPS. If it exists via console, slash-command and command-line. Why not the UI?
By default, the FPS cap for the game should match that of the refresh rate of the monitor, and allow the user to override it. Instead the game is uncapped (if your card could run 7000 frames per second it would, despite STO not updating ANYTHING in the game world that often.)
If the game wasn't so demanding at max settings, it wouldn't be necessary to cap FPS to compensate for heat issues. It doesn't mean anyone is at fault, it doesn't mean the game is fundamentally flawed and different from all past games. If Cryptic can accept that some of us do need to control GPU use then perhaps they will update their Video Options UI and this thread can be re-edited by the OP with a paragraph on tweaking Max FPS as a viable option for helping reduce heat and/or improve stability. What an awesome option that would be, right?
My gaming rig is having this issue, my fix was to open the case up, take a 10 dollar Walmart small floor fan and have it blow outside air over the motherboard and CPU. This cooled my temps down by 20c when running the game at max settings and have not had this problem since. Is is a stop gap solution until I can get a new heatsink and fan for my CPU.
just ordered componets for a new pc off of tiger direct for like 950 gotta pretty decent gaming computer build going with plenty of fans and kick but cooler master cpu fan dual 500 gb hds amd quad with a killer radeon hd grafix card should do the trick for me cant wait ti slap that puppy:) together
I have a MacBook pro 15'' (late 2008) with a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR3, and a 9600 GT with 256 MB dedicated. In Windows 7 x64 I can run STO at 1440x900 at low quality fine but at medium quality the game experience (FPS, etc.) starts degrading with temperature (only during space combat) until the computer suddenly puts itself to sleep. When I wake the computer, STO is either closed or minimized and theres sometimes an error that the nvidia driver (which is up to date) has failed. I assume this is an overheating problem, right?
This is a good thread, I've been watching my performance of my PC recently regarding Star Trek Online and I'm running with the average percentage at MAXED settings;
Intel Quad Core @ 3GHz - Game takes around 27% of the CPU power.
4GB DDR2 @ 800MHz - Game takes around 50% of the RAM power.
9800GTX+ 512MB - Game takes between 50% to 70% of the GRAPHICS power.
5 8cm case fans - 1 Blowing in ... 2 Blowing out for graphics card ... 1 blowing out for CPU ... 1 Blowing out for PSU/Motherboard
I've not experinced any issues of yet, I've not even updated my grpahics card driver since I brought back in April-ish'09 and im running windows xp pro sp3, my PC has little issues with the game *touch wood*... my PC tempts rarely get past 45C
I have to hard boot within 20 minutes of game because STO freezes my pc. I've tried every single forementioned fix suggestion... you name it... I've done it. Don't waste your time "tweeking" anything... the game is what it is.... miserable experience. Thankfull I decided not to get the lifetime subscription to Star Trek Offline.
To all you trolls who are about to say it is my computer... I love you! It's not my vid drivers, it's not my PSU, it's not corrupt file, its not disabling dynamic lighting, its not adjust my vid card performance slider, it's not my system specs, it's not AntiAliasing issue(exist?), it's not post processing, it's not anti-virus issue, it's not Vertical Sync, it's not Ambient Occlusion... it is on Cryptics side, end of story.
Where is the Fluffy support now Cryptic Devs? You want to fix this or not?
Ive had the same problems since full release and subsiquent updates, since then my graphics card has died (thanks cryptic for nothing). ive tried most suggestions for cooling from the forums , that i can prior to card giveing up the ghost, and even sent a shout to cryptics tech people for possible solution over 2 weeks ago, and guess what ..... no answer from them.
Now i gotta go get a new graphics card fitted, its a pitty that cryptic couldnt mention this prob , fix it or do something to help, via there tech support, eigther way ithink there attitude sucks, and im seriously considerring dumping this game, im just glad i didnt signe up for lifetime sub and wast more money on people who dont listen to there subscribers, right now cryptic you suck big time.
I have my machine completely cleaned out of dust. I have two 120 fans on top of my cosmos rig pushing out heat. I have 2 pushing air in from the front, 2 in rear pushing heat out I got no cables in the way for airflow. I ran a stress test overnight and my cpu hit 58 degree's. I've turned down my graphics, turned off physics. My fans are set to 100% speed and I still blue screen. So I tore apart my rig cleaned out the cpu thermal compound added new compound.
I don't overclock my rig. I have a Q9650 intel cpu. Nvidia GTX 295 8 Gigs of corsair ram. This is the only game that I have had this issue with. I have played Crysis all day at 1900x1200 and no issues.
I wasn't having any issues with the game until the last patch all of sudden I'm crashing all the time I get random blue screens. How is this my rig? It can't be I have no dust and plenty of airflow. Only other option that I have is run water cooling.
So saying it's my Rig that's bull. This is the only game that has this issue. Give us options in game to throttle down cpu usage then.
Thermal issues:
Here is the break down with thermal (overheating) related issues. First off like most of the new generation games, Star Trek online is using a higher amount of CPU, memory, and GPU power to play. What this means is since a larger percentage of your hardware is utilized so there is an increase the amount of heat is going to be generated from your system. CPUs and GPUs are designed by default to be capable of running at 100% for longer periods of time, and this is something software and hardware developers test for. So a system running at 100% is completely acceptable, and should not cause issues.
So with this information in mind here are the most common causes for over heating systems.
Dirty case:
You computer can accumulate a large amount of dust from prolonged use. Cleaning your case with compressed air cans (That are designed for cleaning computers; DO NOT USE A COMPRESSOR) on a regular basis can help keep your system healthy. Refrain from using any type of cloth, paper towel, or fluids to clean you system. Make sure you use antistatic devices any time when you open your case to reduce the risk of damaging your hardware. Insufficient Cooling:
In many instances the fans that are provided with your computer are the bare minimum for cooling. This is especially true if you have added new hardware to your system (I.E. Aftermarket graphics cards, additional hard drives, additional memory), and most of the time the default cooling cannot make up for the increase in heat. These issues can be resolved by adding more fans, larger fans, or different types of cooling systems to your case. If modifying your cooling systems is not an option there are cases available on the retail market that can provide additional or different cooling options.
Over clocking your system:
Over clocking is a method that is used by many advanced computer users to attempt to access more of the systems performance power by pushing the components beyond the factory limits. When you over clock a system there is a dramatic increase in system heat as your components are working harder than intended. If this increase in heat is not accounted for when you over clock system this can lead to hardware failure or abnormal functionality. We do not support over clocking as it can produce unseen issues and failures. If you are experiencing issues with Star Trek online and your system is over clocked please reset your system to the factory defaults. With the system at the factory defaults try to reproduce the issue, and it no longer appears then over clocking may have been the culprit.
If none of these factors apply to your situation please feel free to contact our tech support department.
WRONG!!! This game runs EXCEEDINGLY hotter then any other game that is computer intensive because of the bug in the game that defaults the maxfps setting to infinite instead of allowing you to set the maxfps to something reasonable. I am monitoring my temps closely and in space combat my GPU approaches temps of around 83 degrees C this is UNACCEPTABLE! Running your card @ 90C or hotter for prolonged periods of time is the death zone of cards that are based on today's technology. You can, but the lifespan of the card is exceedingly shortened and in a few months you will get a very expensive paper weight. Besides, a card running in the 60-70C range, although moderate, is still shortening the lifespan of it. At 90C, forget it!!
In order to limit the game to run at a reasonable frame rate you MUST each and every time run the command from the chat window /maxfps 60 (or 30 or whatever maximum fps you deem is reasonable). 60 is a nice stable figure that is good enough for this game yet not so high it will run your video card red-lined the whole time you do combat with many vertices being drawn on the screen.
THIS IS A BUG with the STO client and needs to be addressed and fixed. I run many games that are WAAAY more graphic intensive and never red-line my GPU's temps. Please Cryptic do not insult our intelligence and say its fine to run a video card red-lined for prolonged periods of time @ 100% and its ok to do so. You will be very unpleasantly surprised in about 1-2 months when the fibers of the video cards of the GPU and the board start to separate and cause artifacting or complete video card shut-down. The amount of ppl who will start to show their displeasure for their expensive video cards being fried because of a lack of knowledge in this area will fall on your shoulders Cryptic.
You will login to your computer one day and get no video and wonder why. Well STO will be to blame because the maxfps is by auto set to INFINITE.
The problem with this work-around is that you must type /maxfps 60 command each and every time you login to the game to make sure its set. What if you forget? The Advanced Command Line option in the client login does not work to correctly make this permanent as of this writing so there is not workaround to set this setting permanently. THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM!!!
The one thing you forgot to add to your post is:
Software
Software that specifically is bugged due to developers lack of hardware intelligence that red-lines their hardware for long durations will drastically shorten the lifespan of a piece of hardware.
Put the blame back on your shoulders Cryptic not on ours cause we have some dust in our system or that "cards are designed to run @100%". You should become a politician at your clever redirect in our direction. My car is designed to run over 120mph but what do you think that does to the engine? There is no service stations for video cards! ...and no mechanics to change the "oil"!
The question is, since you have no control of a clients hardware but you do have control of the software, maybe you can come up with a method of allowing the software to work correctly and not cause the effects of dust or other nonsense (I am using this example, figuratively) to be the sole impendence of a computer system breaking down.
What's it gonna be? Would you like a whole lot of ****ed-off customers to have fried video cards because you failed to act at curbing this game from its excessive red-lining software?
Software
Software that specifically is bugged due to developers lack of hardware intelligence that red-lines their hardware for long durations will drastically shorten the lifespan of a piece of hardware.
Put the blame back on your shoulders Cryptic not on ours cause we have some dust in our system or that "cards are designed to run @100%". You should become a politician at your clever redirect in our direction. My car is designed to run over 120mph but what do you think that does to the engine? There is no service stations for video cards! ...and no mechanics to change the "oil"!
The question is, since you have no control of a clients hardware but you do have control of the software, maybe you can come up with a method of allowing the software to work correctly and not cause the effects of dust or other nonsense (I am using this example, figuratively) to be the sole impendence of a computer system breaking down.
What's it gonna be? Would you like a whole lot of ****ed-off customers to have fried video cards because you failed to act at curbing this game from its excessive red-lining software?
So many people are having this issue, why is Cryptic not addressing it??
My computer now emits a chirping/clicking noise because of your faulty product. I probably have to replace the video card.
I have my machine completely cleaned out of dust. I have two 120 fans on top of my cosmos rig pushing out heat. I have 2 pushing air in from the front, 2 in rear pushing heat out I got no cables in the way for airflow. I ran a stress test overnight and my cpu hit 58 degree's. I've turned down my graphics, turned off physics. My fans are set to 100% speed and I still blue screen. So I tore apart my rig cleaned out the cpu thermal compound added new compound.
I don't overclock my rig. I have a Q9650 intel cpu. Nvidia GTX 295 8 Gigs of corsair ram. This is the only game that I have had this issue with. I have played Crysis all day at 1900x1200 and no issues.
I wasn't having any issues with the game until the last patch all of sudden I'm crashing all the time I get random blue screens. How is this my rig? It can't be I have no dust and plenty of airflow. Only other option that I have is run water cooling.
So saying it's my Rig that's bull. This is the only game that has this issue. Give us options in game to throttle down cpu usage then.
Blue screens of death are memory related, either being Ram, or Northbridge related between them
This includes IRQ conflicts
A CPU crash is a lock up where the computer will just freeze what its doing, a videocard lock up same thing (Unless it recovers)
A overheating CPU or GPU will cause the computer to either throttle the performance, or reboot the machine in a attempt to cool it.
A faulty PSU can cause -ALL- these problems because of voltage inregularities, just so you know
I have my machine completely cleaned out of dust. I have two 120 fans on top of my cosmos rig pushing out heat. I have 2 pushing air in from the front, 2 in rear pushing heat out I got no cables in the way for airflow. I ran a stress test overnight and my cpu hit 58 degree's. I've turned down my graphics, turned off physics. My fans are set to 100% speed and I still blue screen..
Any idea as to what the blue screen error is? A friend of mine was experiencing something similar to what you are and, in their case, it turned out to be an audio issue due to him installing over the top of the older driver rather than uninstalling. Oddly enough the only reason why he got it with this game was his USB headset died and he had to go back to onboard.
If the screen is just popping up and disappearing when your PC reboots you can do the following to get it to stay up:
1. Go to Start -> Control Panel -> System
2. Go to Advanced (Or click Advanced System Settings under Vista/Win7)
3. Under the Startup and Recovery section, click Settings...
4. Under System Failure un-check "Automatically restart"
This should at least keep that error on the screen long enough to try and see what it is crashing on.
Well, its really up to Cryptic if you wanna keep subscribers to this game. Fix the overheating problem or loose customers. Both me and 2 of my friends that have bought the game are having heatingproblems and casual bluescreens. In the long run this is not acceptable. As per now we are on a one month subscription, if this is not addressed we leave the game...andd I hope many more will if they don't take action.
When running eg. AOC and MassEffect2 on the absolute highest settings without a single problem its kinda surprising that STO is more demanding for the hardware. Don't give me the dust problem or outdated driver explanation as that is not the cause of this, its simply baaad programming.
Well, its really up to Cryptic if you wanna keep subscribers to this game. Fix the overheating problem or loose customers. Both me and 2 of my friends that have bought the game are having heatingproblems and casual bluescreens. In the long run this is not acceptable. As per now we are on a one month subscription, if this is not addressed we leave the game...andd I hope many more will if they don't take action.
This is the truth. I was an avid poster about the video card issue during open beta, and as it was not resolved by release, I cancelled my order. I'm sure many have done the same.
Now, in fact, my video card is damaged. It shuts down my computer during periods of stress far below what it had experienced before. I will admit partial fault in this as I attempted to run STO many times during beta in an effort to resolve the overheating/shutdown issue to no avail. So I am certain that I put additional stress on my card by repeatedly attempting to run a broken game, and now my hardware has suffered for it.
All I can say is that if you are experiencing similar problems, do not continue to attempt to run the game. Either pay for the new video card/computer or cancel your subscription.
WRONG!!! This game runs EXCEEDINGLY hotter then any other game that is computer intensive because of the bug in the game that defaults the maxfps setting to infinite (...)
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And you base this on your vast knowledge of computer game clients and all of the technology surrounding this? Think again Mr. Wizard.
Comments
Working as intended.
Without any sort of frame limiting, ALL game clients will just use DirectX API for commands, and DirectX will communicate with the video card drivers to render frames. Hello! Almost every game client is going to function this way unless some sort of frame rendering limit is defined.
There is no such thing as a GPU being "redlined". This is computer technology, not high-school shop class with engine maintenance/repair.
I have 9 gigs of ddr3, a Geforce 260 and a i7 core 920. When not running STO I use about 1% of the CPU with my Windows 7 64bit setup. 30%-100% cup bouncing is not normal, maybe that is why so many people are overheating.
I am also not saying it is or is not working as intended - I didn't write the code so I dont know what the developers intended.
My post was merely to suggest one possible reason as to why some people were seeing increases in heat related issues and why some people on similar or less powered rigs were not seeing those same issues and what I found worked in resolving the heat issue for me.
"STO like most games... blah blah 100% CPU/GPU... blah blah everything is fine, your comp is dirty and you overclocked it and you don't even have enough fans"
Either:
1) They believe this TRIBBLE they're saying in wich case they are plain incompetent.
2) They are cynical pieces of **** and know their game is TRIBBLE but just want to grab money as long as it lasts.
I agree that this is most likely an indirect part of the equation why people's PCs are overheating. Not the cause of the overheating issue, but something that is controllable by setting vertical sync or maxfps for overheating PCs with a video card at full load.
As for redlining, that metaphor is flawed. It implies that something should only run near or past redline for a limited amount of time. CPUs and GPUs can run at 100% for extended periods of time, such as months or even years without problems if they're adequately cooled. Servers do this all of the time, even with dedicated GPU floating-point calculations (NVIDIA has their own line of GPU-based servers). Hence, literal or metaphorically, it's a flawed statement.
I hope I wont have to get an Nvidia card to make the game playable..
I've come to the conclusion that it can't be a hardware related issue at all, simply because far too many people are experiencing the problem, with no matching circumstances.
This has to be a problem in the code. That's the only constant.
I'm running:
Win7 x86
2GB memory
Athlon 64 X2 3800+
ASUS AN8 Ultra mobo
ATI 4850 graphics card
Soundblaster Audigy.
No problems with temp or fans or dust or any of that other stuff. Everything else runs without problems, I work in IT and deal with hardware and software issues daily. I know what I'm doing so no flamers please.
In OB and early start the game would crash out frequently with my graphics card heating up rapidly in game (even in character selection screen if left on too long - seriously?! :-s). Limiting the FPS and turning down the detail helped somewhat - but why should I have to? I used Catalyst drivers 9.11, 9.12 and 10.1 but all acted the same. I had to underclock my graphics card to play this one game.
Then the game stopped crashing from I think Monday 1st. I could play for hours at a time, day after day, with no problems, even with my card heating up higher than it had reached when I was having all the problems.
Now the bad news - ever since the patch yesterday (5th Feb) it's back to how it was in OB. Frequent crashes out of the game and PC shutting down.
Use any kind of troubleshooting methodology you want, but if you follow the facts from this and other detailed posts in this thread, this points to a problem with the game software. It is causing a large percentage of graphics cards to "freak out". That's a technical term there. And it needs to be acknowledged as a problem, pinned down and fixed!
It is so frustrating because this is a game I'm really enjoying but I and many others are not getting value for money at the moment.
lemme clarify something here
its not GPU temps, but Voltage-Regulator [VRM] temps that i guarantee are causing 99% of the problems
now some of you may be having high GPU temps, but if youve ever seen the thermal-paste jobs from factory GPUs, its no wonder some experience heat issues
but anyways... games should NOT be hitting Furmark temps.... ever !
Furmark temps on my VRMs 100c... vRegulators temps on STO.... 102c and im using IC diamond thermal-paste :eek:
not enough to cause me issues, but can imagine what it does to stock-cooled videocards
you can read where VRMs on certain cards can sustain/accept 125c.... thats BS first of all, youd prolly start to artifact at well before 125c, and brick before then as well
my video cards have full-coverage water-blocks [all in-game video settings max @1920x1200], but it was not the GPU temps that were high but the VRMs were pegging 99c/102c respectiveley, and my WC loop temps rose rather quickly. note: GPUs on a seperate WC loop than my CPU/NB. my case has excellent airflow, as their is not much Case temp
i play many many games.. crysis, cod... u name it, never has my VRM temps gone higher than 78c ! yet this game drives them to 99/102c
and have been building/selling custom water-cooled computers that have had tremendous success
am current record holder for overclocking Q6600 "watercooled stress stable" @ 4.8GHz
Really? With no /maxfps commandline entered in on game boot (I use it cause it causes less wild framerate hiccups, not for heat issues), my card runs 100% load, my Radeon 5850 reaches 72C, my voltage modulators hit 60C, my Memory reaches 62C, and thats with 100% load
With /maxfps in a non-demanding scene it reaches 67C GPU, 58C mem, 58C voltage modulator, and thats working the card 80% load with 1920x1200 with 8xAA on and 16xAF
might cause people to confuse the two
run Furmark stress w/ GPU-Z for sensor-monitoring and compare GPU temp to VDDC [thats the GPUs VRMs] and MVDDC [memory VRMs] temps and tell me what your VRMs hit
i personally have never had a GPU-die that recorded higher temps than the VRMs
i should also probably mention my GPUs are overclocked from 850/975Mhz on GPU/MEM to 1000/1200MHz
is postprocessing on, do you have all settings maxed and enabled ?
i turned everything on and max just to see what my temps were from reading these posts, postprocessing does seem to be the major culprit
with all maxed and enabled aside from postprocessing, my VRMs dont go above 83c
im sure the 5xxx series is more efficient than the 4xxx series
To all you trolls who are about to say it is my computer... I love you! It's not my vid drivers, it's not my PSU, it's not corrupt file, its not disabling dynamic lighting, its not adjust my vid card performance slider, it's not my system specs, it's not AntiAliasing issue(exist?), it's not post processing, it's not anti-virus issue, it's not Vertical Sync, it's not Ambient Occlusion... it is on Cryptics side, end of story.
Where is the Fluffy support now Cryptic Devs? You want to fix this or not?
Tried turning off Dynamic lighting, post processing and full screen occlusion...lowered it by a few degrees...
When I did maxfps and /perframesleep I dropped down to the 70's even with all the effects on.(post processing, etc..)
I hope this helps others.
For 85% of us I would have to say it is the GAME not dust in our PC or whatever excuse they are saying.
I'm very angry, bought the Collectors Edition of STO, might as well burned the $79.00 (plus tax).
Everytime there is a patch, I think, this time when I boot up this game is going to work..........NOT!!!
I have been playing PC games since 1990, and never had a problem like this. Even back in those old days of making a Boot Disk to get a game to work.
I know that we are all humans and aren't perfect ....put why doesn't someone somewhere from Crpytic (or Atari for that matter) say there are major problems with this game for many users??
How about my money back if you aren't willing to fix this game for the 85% of us that can't even play it?
Would a car dealer be allowed to sell a brand new car, and when the customer buys it and tries to drive it, the car doesn't work....what would happen with the car dealer?
I am very frustrated, I know it is only a game (and not a life or death issue).
But Cryptic/Atari if you can't or won't fix this game, I think we all should have our money refunded.
Isn't that the only fair and honest thiing to do??
Thanks for letting me give my opinion! :eek:
Also, when running STO both noises disappear completely. I can play in window mode and duplicate the actions which normally causes the noise but there is none with STO running.
In the simplest sense a gpu is a math processor, it expends energy completing circuits that solve equations. The complexity of equations and total equations performed in X time will have a known energy cost and thermal dissipation. It's possible for two games to run at 100% gpu load and have two completely different thermal costs, because their computations are different. Likewise, two different cards could have a different thermal cost for the same game because the number and size of circuits that need to be completed for the same equations would vary. It's a myth that all games are equal, and that all hardware is designed to run all games at 100%. Fact is, a lot of us have some damn nice hardware all cramped up in undercooled form factors (laptops) or simply can't get 'proper' cooling in our desktops.
The heat problems I experienced were obvious to using too-high settings combined with the lack of a work cap (e.g. Max FPS) and as a laptop user this proved that cooling is a problem for. Not much I can do from a hardware perspective.
Features such as ambient occlusion add a wealth of depth and polish to a scene, but the execution cost for the GPU increases significantly relative to scene complexity. The most heat generated wasn't when my GPU was at 100% gpu load at peak fps, it was when it was at 96% gpu load and my FPS were dropping from 160+ to ~31 because the card itself was in computational hell. Scene complexity was pushing the limit of the hardware, it isn't that the hardware can't run at 100% for extended periods, it's that it doesn't HAVE to to be a great game and doing so DOES cause some of us problems.
Anyway, what I wanted to say is that an FPS option needs to be implemented in-game via the Video Options UI. Arguing otherwise is silliness. Alternatively, we can lower a few settings and/or manually enter commands in-game to cap FPS. If it exists via console, slash-command and command-line. Why not the UI?
By default, the FPS cap for the game should match that of the refresh rate of the monitor, and allow the user to override it. Instead the game is uncapped (if your card could run 7000 frames per second it would, despite STO not updating ANYTHING in the game world that often.)
If the game wasn't so demanding at max settings, it wouldn't be necessary to cap FPS to compensate for heat issues. It doesn't mean anyone is at fault, it doesn't mean the game is fundamentally flawed and different from all past games. If Cryptic can accept that some of us do need to control GPU use then perhaps they will update their Video Options UI and this thread can be re-edited by the OP with a paragraph on tweaking Max FPS as a viable option for helping reduce heat and/or improve stability. What an awesome option that would be, right?
just ordered componets for a new pc off of tiger direct for like 950 gotta pretty decent gaming computer build going with plenty of fans and kick but cooler master cpu fan dual 500 gb hds amd quad with a killer radeon hd grafix card should do the trick for me cant wait ti slap that puppy:) together
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7042/settingsg.jpg < Image to my video settings.
Intel Quad Core @ 3GHz - Game takes around 27% of the CPU power.
4GB DDR2 @ 800MHz - Game takes around 50% of the RAM power.
9800GTX+ 512MB - Game takes between 50% to 70% of the GRAPHICS power.
5 8cm case fans - 1 Blowing in ... 2 Blowing out for graphics card ... 1 blowing out for CPU ... 1 Blowing out for PSU/Motherboard
I've not experinced any issues of yet, I've not even updated my grpahics card driver since I brought back in April-ish'09 and im running windows xp pro sp3, my PC has little issues with the game *touch wood*... my PC tempts rarely get past 45C
Ive had the same problems since full release and subsiquent updates, since then my graphics card has died (thanks cryptic for nothing). ive tried most suggestions for cooling from the forums , that i can prior to card giveing up the ghost, and even sent a shout to cryptics tech people for possible solution over 2 weeks ago, and guess what ..... no answer from them.
Now i gotta go get a new graphics card fitted, its a pitty that cryptic couldnt mention this prob , fix it or do something to help, via there tech support, eigther way ithink there attitude sucks, and im seriously considerring dumping this game, im just glad i didnt signe up for lifetime sub and wast more money on people who dont listen to there subscribers, right now cryptic you suck big time.
I don't overclock my rig. I have a Q9650 intel cpu. Nvidia GTX 295 8 Gigs of corsair ram. This is the only game that I have had this issue with. I have played Crysis all day at 1900x1200 and no issues.
I wasn't having any issues with the game until the last patch all of sudden I'm crashing all the time I get random blue screens. How is this my rig? It can't be I have no dust and plenty of airflow. Only other option that I have is run water cooling.
So saying it's my Rig that's bull. This is the only game that has this issue. Give us options in game to throttle down cpu usage then.
WRONG!!! This game runs EXCEEDINGLY hotter then any other game that is computer intensive because of the bug in the game that defaults the maxfps setting to infinite instead of allowing you to set the maxfps to something reasonable. I am monitoring my temps closely and in space combat my GPU approaches temps of around 83 degrees C this is UNACCEPTABLE! Running your card @ 90C or hotter for prolonged periods of time is the death zone of cards that are based on today's technology. You can, but the lifespan of the card is exceedingly shortened and in a few months you will get a very expensive paper weight. Besides, a card running in the 60-70C range, although moderate, is still shortening the lifespan of it. At 90C, forget it!!
In order to limit the game to run at a reasonable frame rate you MUST each and every time run the command from the chat window /maxfps 60 (or 30 or whatever maximum fps you deem is reasonable). 60 is a nice stable figure that is good enough for this game yet not so high it will run your video card red-lined the whole time you do combat with many vertices being drawn on the screen.
THIS IS A BUG with the STO client and needs to be addressed and fixed. I run many games that are WAAAY more graphic intensive and never red-line my GPU's temps. Please Cryptic do not insult our intelligence and say its fine to run a video card red-lined for prolonged periods of time @ 100% and its ok to do so. You will be very unpleasantly surprised in about 1-2 months when the fibers of the video cards of the GPU and the board start to separate and cause artifacting or complete video card shut-down. The amount of ppl who will start to show their displeasure for their expensive video cards being fried because of a lack of knowledge in this area will fall on your shoulders Cryptic.
You will login to your computer one day and get no video and wonder why. Well STO will be to blame because the maxfps is by auto set to INFINITE.
The problem with this work-around is that you must type /maxfps 60 command each and every time you login to the game to make sure its set. What if you forget? The Advanced Command Line option in the client login does not work to correctly make this permanent as of this writing so there is not workaround to set this setting permanently. THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM!!!
The one thing you forgot to add to your post is:
Software
Software that specifically is bugged due to developers lack of hardware intelligence that red-lines their hardware for long durations will drastically shorten the lifespan of a piece of hardware.
Put the blame back on your shoulders Cryptic not on ours cause we have some dust in our system or that "cards are designed to run @100%". You should become a politician at your clever redirect in our direction. My car is designed to run over 120mph but what do you think that does to the engine? There is no service stations for video cards! ...and no mechanics to change the "oil"!
The question is, since you have no control of a clients hardware but you do have control of the software, maybe you can come up with a method of allowing the software to work correctly and not cause the effects of dust or other nonsense (I am using this example, figuratively) to be the sole impendence of a computer system breaking down.
What's it gonna be? Would you like a whole lot of ****ed-off customers to have fried video cards because you failed to act at curbing this game from its excessive red-lining software?
So many people are having this issue, why is Cryptic not addressing it??
My computer now emits a chirping/clicking noise because of your faulty product. I probably have to replace the video card.
Blue screens of death are memory related, either being Ram, or Northbridge related between them
This includes IRQ conflicts
A CPU crash is a lock up where the computer will just freeze what its doing, a videocard lock up same thing (Unless it recovers)
A overheating CPU or GPU will cause the computer to either throttle the performance, or reboot the machine in a attempt to cool it.
A faulty PSU can cause -ALL- these problems because of voltage inregularities, just so you know
Any idea as to what the blue screen error is? A friend of mine was experiencing something similar to what you are and, in their case, it turned out to be an audio issue due to him installing over the top of the older driver rather than uninstalling. Oddly enough the only reason why he got it with this game was his USB headset died and he had to go back to onboard.
If the screen is just popping up and disappearing when your PC reboots you can do the following to get it to stay up:
1. Go to Start -> Control Panel -> System
2. Go to Advanced (Or click Advanced System Settings under Vista/Win7)
3. Under the Startup and Recovery section, click Settings...
4. Under System Failure un-check "Automatically restart"
This should at least keep that error on the screen long enough to try and see what it is crashing on.
When running eg. AOC and MassEffect2 on the absolute highest settings without a single problem its kinda surprising that STO is more demanding for the hardware. Don't give me the dust problem or outdated driver explanation as that is not the cause of this, its simply baaad programming.
This is the truth. I was an avid poster about the video card issue during open beta, and as it was not resolved by release, I cancelled my order. I'm sure many have done the same.
Now, in fact, my video card is damaged. It shuts down my computer during periods of stress far below what it had experienced before. I will admit partial fault in this as I attempted to run STO many times during beta in an effort to resolve the overheating/shutdown issue to no avail. So I am certain that I put additional stress on my card by repeatedly attempting to run a broken game, and now my hardware has suffered for it.
All I can say is that if you are experiencing similar problems, do not continue to attempt to run the game. Either pay for the new video card/computer or cancel your subscription.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And you base this on your vast knowledge of computer game clients and all of the technology surrounding this? Think again Mr. Wizard.