Just a big steal of reallife Money that crappy idea...
Since you can only do 8k dilithium refine a day, and thats the mark you point it for real, you just wants more peeps that buy zen convert it to refined dilithium and then set the pricings so high that most players had to use reallife money if they dont want to waste a reallife day gaming progress
I hope this will go the same way as such a try in -EVE- was going...they lost 100k paying players with an finger snip
Your game is like an "Volkswagen", not an Bentley...
I wrestled with how to put this for awhile, but whatever. I have 9 characters, which allows me to refine 72000 dilithium per day, or 76500 if I use the fleet bonus. I don't play all my characters every day, but popping in on each to set up reputation, doff missions, and admiralty just to keep their dil from running out too fast doesn't take very long...
No it takes a LOT of time that most of us would rather ACTUALLY be playing the game not button click grinding.
I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens
^^ That pretty much sums it up for me.
Also, while I am wholeheartedly a proponent of new dilithium sinks, all sinks before have been 'in addition to', not at the expense of. Want to throw your dilithium at a new MACO suit? Fine, but it's a voluntary choice -- and it won't cost you if you decide not to go for it. That is how all dilithium sinks have worked before, and the only system which is reasonable, IMHO. Else, well, a forced sink, as it were (as you now have to spend dil on tokens that dropped for free before) is just you getting robbed, basically. So, in essence, new sink has become punitive, instead of incentive-based. I though the idea was to make something ppl WANT, and are willing to spend dilithium on, not to spite them for having too much of it.
I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens, so for me it means I'm discouraged to do the Admirality thing, or it will give me less new Dilithium from the Ferengi Tour of Duty, because I sometimes won't reach the next Tour of Duty Mission.
Also, I will not spend anything on pass tokens, so if the mission of the day doesn't suit me, I will ignore it.
Overall these changes just result in me playing the game LESS, and as a result I'm also LESS inclined to spend any real world money on it.
Bad change.
It would be okay if the old system would stay in place, and this was ADDED as an additional way to spend dilithium, as a pay for convenience measure if people run out of pass tokens.
But this way, you are taking things away from people only to RESELL it to them for a high price. "Oh, and by the way, the air your are breathing, that's 4800 Zen as a discount now."
You must hate us or are greedy AF. Not every has the opportunity to grind dilithium. That takes hours of time. For the casual player this is a huge FU. Yet another thing to waste (you took away free so yeah, waste) dilithium on. All the fleets I am in are often held back in their development by a need for dilithium in their projects. I have not upgraded my carrier pets as I don't have any extra dilithium to spend on purples. I scrounge what I can to transform into Zen yet fall $50 short so I have to cough up REAL money to buy sale bundles (seriously its not really a choice if you play, or you just suck). Don't get me started on hearing this after the collapse of the Zen market. Now you want MORE?! Most of the casual players do not read or post here. You might want to consider just how popular this game would be when they leave, havin grown tired of spin doctored new things like "(yelling)you can now use dilititum to... (whispering) but can't do it for free anymore." How little you must think of the player base.
Signed in after a long time just to post on this topic.
Must say this change makes me sad.
I use the Admiralty system to get fleet dili credits while I do most of the upgrade heavy lifting for my fleet.
I'm all out of dili, have been since the Colony holdings were released and I will continue to be for years to come at this rate.
The admiralty skip tokens are a blessing to skip the less rewarding projects to push on for the klingon level 10 fleet dili reward.
I can't spend 2500 dili on a single skip token. That's insane.
All this will do is slow down my fleet levelling progression.
I hope admiralty pass tokens can be re-evaluated for the next patch. Double the klingon level 10 admiralty fleet dili tokens reward or something, I'd be ok with that.
I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens, so for me it means I'm discouraged to do the Admirality thing, or it will give me less new Dilithium from the Ferengi Tour of Duty, because I sometimes won't reach the next Tour of Duty Mission.
Also, I will not spend anything on pass tokens, so if the mission of the day doesn't suit me, I will ignore it.
Overall these changes just result in me playing the game LESS, and as a result I'm also LESS inclined to spend any real world money on it.
Bad change.
It would be okay if the old system would stay in place, and this was ADDED as an additional way to spend dilithium, as a pay for convenience measure if people run out of pass tokens.
But this way, you are taking things away from people only to RESELL it to them for a high price. "Oh, and by the way, the air your are breathing, that's 4800 Zen as a discount now."
You must hate us or are greedy AF. Not every has the opportunity to grind dilithium. That takes hours of time. For the casual player this is a huge FU. Yet another thing to waste (you took away free so yeah, waste) dilithium on. All the fleets I am in are often held back in their development by a need for dilithium in their projects. I have not upgraded my carrier pets as I don't have any extra dilithium to spend on purples. I scrounge what I can to transform into Zen yet fall $50 short so I have to cough up REAL money to buy sale bundles (seriously its not really a choice if you play, or you just suck). Don't get me started on hearing this after the collapse of the Zen market. Now you want MORE?! Most of the casual players do not read or post here. You might want to consider just how popular this game would be when they leave, havin grown tired of spin doctored new things like "(yelling)you can now use dilititum to... (whispering) but can't do it for free anymore." How little you must think of the player base.
Be careful when you do upgrade those carrier pets as many of them get worse as you up grade them more so if you use the SAD trait.
I always assumed the general idea was the casual player used Zen via cash to get dilithium. While the none casual players are the ones the grind dilithium for Zen. That was how it was meant to be balanced but with the overflow of dilithium and nothing to spend it on the casual players now have too much dilithium and so don't need to trade via Zen. Which means less money to keep the game alive and less none casual players grinding for Zen.
Better Dil-Sink proposition ...
Actually make donating Dil to the fleet worthwhile, instead of the very very very minor reward it currently gives for donating Dil to the fleet..
This has been the main reason why donating dil to the fleet is mostly reserved to the fleets whales.. since the start of fleet holdings the main problem has been, and even with DilMine "solution" still is ... dilithium for projects...
There are so many other and better things for a player to spend their Dil on, most of which have already come by in this thread ..
Make donating Dili to fleet more rewarding .. Enable buyout of endeavour jobs with Dil, Enable purchase of endeavour perk with Dil (within limits) , Add a buyout with Dil option to the events , add a buyout option for TFO cooldowns , add a boyout option for leaver-penalty ... man ... it seems i can do this all day....
I admit to never focusing much time or effort into the endeavor system, and only ran those daily things on occasion. My rating remains low (30ish?). Also, yeah, I used the pass tokens to erase those errands that annoyed me. But I will not waste dilithium to acquire pass tokens, so probably gonna go back to ignoring their endeavor system again by and large.
So as someone who has just started playing the game properly, I really don't see how this will fix the dilithium issues you guys seem to be having. So for me, I don't have allot of dilithium, I understand all the things I need to do in order to get it, and most days I can get my 8k and get it refined on the one character. Trying to get endeavours done too, is quite difficult in the few hours I might get to play a day tops. So from my understanding, those who have by now accrued vast amounts of refined dilithium, probably don't need to worry so much about the endeavours, but for a new players its more important I do them.
So for me this just seems like it wasn't thought out very well. New players will have to either skip or try to complete them with what they have, or alternatively spend dilithium. Long time players can either choose to throw a small amount of their dilithium away, or just wait 24 hours for the next one.
Or maybe i'm just missing something?
For me, it seems like they should focus on exchanging one form of currency for another.. not making something that was free, cost the player dilithium.
A pretty typical move by this latest batch of Cryptic developers - instead of finding new ways to make people want to take part in things, they look for hamfisted way to force people into their pigeon holes.
Adding in the new ways to spend dil on passes was a good idea. Removing the original means of obtaining them is a monumentally very bad idea to force people to spend that dil.
I also noticed they're nerfing the "Ruin of our Enemies" trait as part of their ongoing effort to nerf things that have been part of the game for years without breaking it. No effort spent on, for example, making the various consoles and traits that nobody uses because they're garbage better so that people actually consider them.
The person who came up with this idea, probably wanted the complete opposite of a Dil sink, if you want my Dil make something worth spending Dil on, this is worthless to us since we will just ignore our endeavors anyways,
Just give us
1. Uniforms
2. Ships
3. Vanity shields
4. Pets
5. Species
6. Combat pets
7. Phoenix packs
Pretty much content that people want to spend Zen on but can't due to this whole DilEx mess, so why not just make some of this content for Dil instead.
The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts
That WAS my strategy for those, but then Klingon Recruit came out with a big bonus for endeavors so I've had to spend most of 2021 using that one toon to do it every day ... only another 174k endeavor XP to go before I finish this ... should be able to get that in 14 days ... once I'm done I don't think I'll play this character again for at least a year cause I'm sick of using him day after day after day.
That is why I don't worry about getting the recruit stuff done fast, I still have things left to do with my deltas from the first delta recruit rerun a few years ago (though I might never do all of the stuff for delta seeing as how they switched it to require Dust To Dust and I have no interest whatsoever in repeating that tribble, it is by far the worst most tedious episode in the game).
For most recruit stuff I do the same, but a 10% buff to endeavor xp was too good for me to put off.
Better Dil-Sink proposition ...
Actually make donating Dil to the fleet worthwhile, instead of the very very very minor reward it currently gives for donating Dil to the fleet..
This has been the main reason why donating dil to the fleet is mostly reserved to the fleets whales.. since the start of fleet holdings the main problem has been, and even with DilMine "solution" still is ... dilithium for projects...
There are so many other and better things for a player to spend their Dil on, most of which have already come by in this thread ..
Make donating Dili to fleet more rewarding .. Enable buyout of endeavour jobs with Dil, Enable purchase of endeavour perk with Dil (within limits) , Add a buyout with Dil option to the events , add a buyout option for TFO cooldowns , add a boyout option for leaver-penalty ... man ... it seems i can do this all day....
I doubt asking for a dev to be murdered is allowed here.
We can agree that asking for Devs to be murdered is a huge red flag, it's almost as bad as doxxing, real fans don't harrass people (celebrities, game Devs, comicbook writers, you name it) and send death threats, only STANs pull that kind of TRIBBLE.
i'm not concerned by these modifications, because I don't use admiralty and endeavours all the time, only when I want or motivated. Admiralty is too boring to do it all the time and for the endeavours, I take my time, if i'm not intested by something or I don't want to do them, then I do something else.
I'm rather skeptical, but something must be tried
They could have tried - adding - something to the game, instead of taking away things. But of course, that would require some actual effort to improve the game.
Far easier to just remove some rewards and then watch what little effort you put in being made undone by the next promo release. Or indeed, another Mudd pack that largely undid the effect of the very nice dilithium sink we had in the Phoenix store.
(And yes, they may still add something to the game. Later on. Until they do, I'll judge this decision with the knowledge we have now.)
Look. I was right. Sort of. There's a key sale on the same day a dilithium sink is added.
Makes it kind of hard to believe they're really taking away stuff to 'fix the economy'.
The problem with this argument is that most of those so called "garbage" traits and consoles are, in fact, not actually garbage. They just aren't meta. And most of the so called "solutions" are just people asking them to make these traits/consoles as powerful as the D.O.M.I.N.O. console.
The problem with this argument is that being used a lot != OP. It's a very common Dev-trap. Looking at their metrics, they see almost everyone use the Leech; thus, they therefore conclude it's OP. That's like saying gasoline is OP, as most cars use gasoline. Energy is simply a vital component for every similar game (like EvE Online) where ships require power.
The second part of the Dev-trap is not realizing that removing the alleged OP console simply makes the second in place now OP, ad infinitum. Reality is, there will simply never be full console equilibrium, as there's simply no such thing as true console utility equilibrium (different consoles are meant for different tasks).
i'm not concerned by these modifications, because I don't use admiralty and endeavours all the time, only when I want or motivated. Admiralty is too boring to do it all the time and for the endeavours, I take my time, if i'm not intested by something or I don't want to do them, then I do something else.
I'm rather skeptical, but something must be tried
They could have tried - adding - something to the game, instead of taking away things. But of course, that would require some actual effort to improve the game.
Far easier to just remove some rewards and then watch what little effort you put in being made undone by the next promo release. Or indeed, another Mudd pack that largely undid the effect of the very nice dilithium sink we had in the Phoenix store.
(And yes, they may still add something to the game. Later on. Until they do, I'll judge this decision with the knowledge we have now.)
Look. I was right. Sort of. There's a key sale on the same day a dilithium sink is added.
Makes it kind of hard to believe they're really taking away stuff to 'fix the economy'.
This is a key (pardon the pun) point. Combine the seemingly endless sales (yes, I know they're usually planned well in advance; this has been going on long enough that advance planning is no longer a relevant point) with halfhearted at best attempts at a dil sink, and I am growing increasingly certain they want the dil exchange at max.
Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not.
My objection isn't to the change its the unreasonable short notice. Earning those reroll tokens wasn't free it took hours and hours of work. Now due to short notice many people are going to lose out on 50 ish tokens they spent a long time over many months of playing daily to earn. I have not done the math but it feels like it takes something like 30days to earn those 50 tokens. It was only by shear fluke I spotted the message at 11.30pm last night otherwise I would have lost 50 tokens myself. There should have been more notice to give people chance to open the box's for the tokens they earned. A lot of us where only opening them as we needed them.
They said something about no one will lose the ones they already have, they just took the tokens out of the loot tables so no more can be gotten as rewards and will have to buy any new ones.
Which is the problem they did this with such short notice that many people who have spent months earning those tokens have now lost those 50 tokens and have to spend 125k Dilithium to get the tokens back they had already spent many hours earning. I can live with the change but not the fact they have removed tokens we have already spent hours earning without a reasonable timeframe to do anything about it. They should have given 1 weeks notice at a minimum or only change the loot table for new box's leaving old box.
Plus they are charging players Dilithium for tokens then not giving any tokens if you are at the cap but still taking the Dilithium without any warning there is a cap.
The problem with this argument is that most of those so called "garbage" traits and consoles are, in fact, not actually garbage. They just aren't meta. And most of the so called "solutions" are just people asking them to make these traits/consoles as powerful as the D.O.M.I.N.O. console.
The problem with this argument is that being used a lot != OP. It's a very common Dev-trap. Looking at their metrics, they see almost everyone use the Leech; thus, they therefore conclude it's OP. That's like saying gasoline is OP, as most cars use gasoline. Energy is simply a vital component for every similar game (like EvE Online) where ships require power.
The second part of the Dev-trap is not realizing that removing the alleged OP console simply makes the second in place now OP, ad infinitum. Reality is, there will simply never be full console equilibrium, as there's simply no such thing as true console utility equilibrium (different consoles are meant for different tasks).
Comments
I am slow clapping. Well said.
No it takes a LOT of time that most of us would rather ACTUALLY be playing the game not button click grinding.
^^ That pretty much sums it up for me.
Also, while I am wholeheartedly a proponent of new dilithium sinks, all sinks before have been 'in addition to', not at the expense of. Want to throw your dilithium at a new MACO suit? Fine, but it's a voluntary choice -- and it won't cost you if you decide not to go for it. That is how all dilithium sinks have worked before, and the only system which is reasonable, IMHO. Else, well, a forced sink, as it were (as you now have to spend dil on tokens that dropped for free before) is just you getting robbed, basically. So, in essence, new sink has become punitive, instead of incentive-based. I though the idea was to make something ppl WANT, and are willing to spend dilithium on, not to spite them for having too much of it.
You must hate us or are greedy AF. Not every has the opportunity to grind dilithium. That takes hours of time. For the casual player this is a huge FU. Yet another thing to waste (you took away free so yeah, waste) dilithium on. All the fleets I am in are often held back in their development by a need for dilithium in their projects. I have not upgraded my carrier pets as I don't have any extra dilithium to spend on purples. I scrounge what I can to transform into Zen yet fall $50 short so I have to cough up REAL money to buy sale bundles (seriously its not really a choice if you play, or you just suck). Don't get me started on hearing this after the collapse of the Zen market. Now you want MORE?! Most of the casual players do not read or post here. You might want to consider just how popular this game would be when they leave, havin grown tired of spin doctored new things like "(yelling)you can now use dilititum to... (whispering) but can't do it for free anymore." How little you must think of the player base.
Must say this change makes me sad.
I use the Admiralty system to get fleet dili credits while I do most of the upgrade heavy lifting for my fleet.
I'm all out of dili, have been since the Colony holdings were released and I will continue to be for years to come at this rate.
The admiralty skip tokens are a blessing to skip the less rewarding projects to push on for the klingon level 10 fleet dili reward.
I can't spend 2500 dili on a single skip token. That's insane.
All this will do is slow down my fleet levelling progression.
I hope admiralty pass tokens can be re-evaluated for the next patch. Double the klingon level 10 admiralty fleet dili tokens reward or something, I'd be ok with that.
I always assumed the general idea was the casual player used Zen via cash to get dilithium. While the none casual players are the ones the grind dilithium for Zen. That was how it was meant to be balanced but with the overflow of dilithium and nothing to spend it on the casual players now have too much dilithium and so don't need to trade via Zen. Which means less money to keep the game alive and less none casual players grinding for Zen.
Actually make donating Dil to the fleet worthwhile, instead of the very very very minor reward it currently gives for donating Dil to the fleet..
This has been the main reason why donating dil to the fleet is mostly reserved to the fleets whales.. since the start of fleet holdings the main problem has been, and even with DilMine "solution" still is ... dilithium for projects...
There are so many other and better things for a player to spend their Dil on, most of which have already come by in this thread ..
Make donating Dili to fleet more rewarding .. Enable buyout of endeavour jobs with Dil, Enable purchase of endeavour perk with Dil (within limits) , Add a buyout with Dil option to the events , add a buyout option for TFO cooldowns , add a boyout option for leaver-penalty ... man ... it seems i can do this all day....
So for me this just seems like it wasn't thought out very well. New players will have to either skip or try to complete them with what they have, or alternatively spend dilithium. Long time players can either choose to throw a small amount of their dilithium away, or just wait 24 hours for the next one.
Or maybe i'm just missing something?
For me, it seems like they should focus on exchanging one form of currency for another.. not making something that was free, cost the player dilithium.
Adding in the new ways to spend dil on passes was a good idea. Removing the original means of obtaining them is a monumentally very bad idea to force people to spend that dil.
I also noticed they're nerfing the "Ruin of our Enemies" trait as part of their ongoing effort to nerf things that have been part of the game for years without breaking it. No effort spent on, for example, making the various consoles and traits that nobody uses because they're garbage better so that people actually consider them.
Objectionable Material redacted - rattler
Just give us
1. Uniforms
2. Ships
3. Vanity shields
4. Pets
5. Species
6. Combat pets
7. Phoenix packs
Pretty much content that people want to spend Zen on but can't due to this whole DilEx mess, so why not just make some of this content for Dil instead.
Excellent suggestion.
We can agree that asking for Devs to be murdered is a huge red flag, it's almost as bad as doxxing, real fans don't harrass people (celebrities, game Devs, comicbook writers, you name it) and send death threats, only STANs pull that kind of TRIBBLE.
(redacted material quote removed) - darkbladejk
Look. I was right. Sort of. There's a key sale on the same day a dilithium sink is added.
Makes it kind of hard to believe they're really taking away stuff to 'fix the economy'.
The problem with this argument is that being used a lot != OP. It's a very common Dev-trap. Looking at their metrics, they see almost everyone use the Leech; thus, they therefore conclude it's OP. That's like saying gasoline is OP, as most cars use gasoline. Energy is simply a vital component for every similar game (like EvE Online) where ships require power.
The second part of the Dev-trap is not realizing that removing the alleged OP console simply makes the second in place now OP, ad infinitum. Reality is, there will simply never be full console equilibrium, as there's simply no such thing as true console utility equilibrium (different consoles are meant for different tasks).
This is a key (pardon the pun) point. Combine the seemingly endless sales (yes, I know they're usually planned well in advance; this has been going on long enough that advance planning is no longer a relevant point) with halfhearted at best attempts at a dil sink, and I am growing increasingly certain they want the dil exchange at max.
Plus they are charging players Dilithium for tokens then not giving any tokens if you are at the cap but still taking the Dilithium without any warning there is a cap.
yes you are right!
The major problem of the endeavor is iconian and lukari tfo