Tomorrow: Endevour/Admiralty pass tokens will ONLY be available for dilithium

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Comments

  • darkbladejk
    darkbladejk Member Posts: 3,306 Community Moderator
    Guys knock it off with the flamethrowers. You can offer constructive criticism without trying to light the forums on fire. I'm not fond of free re-rolls going away completely either and Kael has said they've heard that complaint. As such I believe him. You're free to offer criticism and opinions in the positive or negative, but if you can't do so without the flamethrowers, then it's better for you not to speak at all as any legitimate constructive criticism you could have will be lost in the fire.


    As for this sink, it's actually an improvement even if a weird one. It allows people who may not have a ton of tokens to re-roll their endeavors alot more if they're just having terrible luck. It also allows folks who don't have any tokens at all to pick up tokens to re-roll with. Now you're not at the mercy of the RNG system to get tokens. The only question you have to answer now is if it will be worth 2500 dilithium to re-roll something or not.
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  • thegrandnagus1
    thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,107 Arc User
    The only question you have to answer now is if it will be worth 2500 dilithium to re-roll something or not.

    Changes are almost certainly going to be made, so we really aren't even going to have to ask ourselves that question. I'm guessing either:

    1: they keep the free ones and also add the dilithium option or

    2: they remove the free ones as planned but reduce the dilithium cost

    But hey we'll see :)

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • thegrandnagus1
    thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,107 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    I'd also like to add: I appreciate the way Kael posted. He simply acknowledged that the feedback was heard and didn't feel the need to say "calm down" or "chill out" or whatever. Sometimes people are going to vent about controversial changes, and a good CM knows sometimes it's better to just let them release the pressure than call it out. After a few days they will probably announce whatever change to the original plans, which will probably appease (not necessarily please) most people and it will just be another bump in the road that was no big deal in the long run.

    Again, kudos to Kael on not trying to call anybody out for being upset. His response set the exact right tone and is all that needed to be said for the time being.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • husanakx
    husanakx Member Posts: 1,227 Arc User
    Guys knock it off with the flamethrowers. You can offer constructive criticism without trying to light the forums on fire. I'm not fond of free re-rolls going away completely either and Kael has said they've heard that complaint. As such I believe him. You're free to offer criticism and opinions in the positive or negative, but if you can't do so without the flamethrowers, then it's better for you not to speak at all as any legitimate constructive criticism you could have will be lost in the fire.


    As for this sink, it's actually an improvement even if a weird one. It allows people who may not have a ton of tokens to re-roll their endeavors alot more if they're just having terrible luck. It also allows folks who don't have any tokens at all to pick up tokens to re-roll with. Now you're not at the mercy of the RNG system to get tokens. The only question you have to answer now is if it will be worth 2500 dilithium to re-roll something or not.

    Its not really a weird when you look at Cryptics development history. Heck its even expected as its a zero work required to implement change. Its also a pointless change. This won't have any effect at all on the economy so why even bother ?
  • keepcalmchiveon
    keepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,004 Arc User
    The only question you have to answer now is if it will be worth 2500 dilithium to re-roll something or not.

    Changes are almost certainly going to be made, so we really aren't even going to have to ask ourselves that question. I'm guessing either:

    1: they keep the free ones and also add the dilithium option or

    2: they remove the free ones as planned but reduce the dilithium cost

    But hey we'll see :)

    as mentioned, id go for a hybrid version...

    keep the dil at 2500, but continue with free tokens as a prize, but reduce the possible win to say 20% chance. (exmaple, not to be taken for fact, but at 20, i think thats a good offset that still gives them out, while keep the dil option highlighted.)
    meh

  • horridperson
    horridperson Member Posts: 659 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
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  • lowestlvl
    lowestlvl Member Posts: 655 Arc User
    hard no for me. i aint wasting 2500 of my hard, earned, time gated, currency.
    There is no QA there is only ZUUL
    called out the bs and got BANNED. and i would gladly do it again.
  • keepcalmchiveon
    keepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,004 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    meh

  • totenmet
    totenmet Member Posts: 586 Arc User
    People with to much dilithium can always donate them to other players fleets that are still in need of leveling.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,541 Community Moderator
    Problem with that is that they'd need to be in the same armada or leave their own established fleets, which I doubt people are willing to do. And honestly in my experience most of the time Armada members locked down any input other than Dilithium, and that didn't work either. My fleet STILL doesn't have the colony finished and we're not getting any DL help from our Armada whatsoever.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • corinthalas
    corinthalas Member Posts: 1,976 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Problem with that is that they'd need to be in the same armada or leave their own established fleets, which I doubt people are willing to do. And honestly in my experience most of the time Armada members locked down any input other than Dilithium, and that didn't work either. My fleet STILL doesn't have the colony finished and we're not getting any DL help from our Armada whatsoever.

    They must not being doing admiralty assignments either, I guess. Because it's not like there's anything else you can do with the KDF tour bonus except donate it to fleet projects.
  • totenmet
    totenmet Member Posts: 586 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Problem with that is that they'd need to be in the same armada or leave their own established fleets, which I doubt people are willing to do. And honestly in my experience most of the time Armada members locked down any input other than Dilithium, and that didn't work either. My fleet STILL doesn't have the colony finished and we're not getting any DL help from our Armada whatsoever.

    Hmm I did sponsor other fleets with my dili. Up till the point of the fleet credits cap. I thought others would do too.
  • horridperson
    horridperson Member Posts: 659 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
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  • allyoftheforce
    allyoftheforce Member Posts: 723 Arc User
    Guys knock it off with the flamethrowers. You can offer constructive criticism without trying to light the forums on fire. I'm not fond of free re-rolls going away completely either and Kael has said they've heard that complaint. As such I believe him. You're free to offer criticism and opinions in the positive or negative, but if you can't do so without the flamethrowers, then it's better for you not to speak at all as any legitimate constructive criticism you could have will be lost in the fire.


    As for this sink, it's actually an improvement even if a weird one. It allows people who may not have a ton of tokens to re-roll their endeavors alot more if they're just having terrible luck. It also allows folks who don't have any tokens at all to pick up tokens to re-roll with. Now you're not at the mercy of the RNG system to get tokens. The only question you have to answer now is if it will be worth 2500 dilithium to re-roll something or not.

    What "free rerolls"? I earned that reroll as a potential reward for completing those Endeavors. Saying "free" is the same as you calling me a thief. I earned it. You want to fix the dil sink problem? Start by dumping the entire dil store back to those who made the offers on them. Nobody can buy anything right now.
    Just because some people are reroll trigger happy because they don't want to run certain ones, is their own blasted fault. There are only 2-3 I refuse to run, but manage to save 50 on a regualr basis. If you can't, you aren't even playing the game right.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,541 Community Moderator
    totenmet wrote: »
    Hmm I did sponsor other fleets with my dili. Up till the point of the fleet credits cap. I thought others would do too.

    Honestly... the armada my fleet is in... is rather silent. Pretty sure most of them may have forgotten the Armada system even exists as Armada chat channel is absolutely dead. The only times I've seen it in use was when I poked it myself.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,203 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    I occasionally throw some dil into other fleets (if the fleet I am in with a particular character is part of an armada, a surprising number are not), but since I am a bit of an altaholic that does not intensively farm admiralty and endeavors I usually don't have much dil to spare after upgrades and whatnot, and most of what I can spare usually goes to the fleet I am in with each character since fleets always seem to need more dil even when jammed up with everything else.
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,890 Arc User
    I was greatly in favor of offering re-roll tokens as a Dilithium Sink, I still am.

    I was however, never in favor of also adding a punishment along with it by removing the free re-rolls, all that does is take the solution designed at the Dilithium wealthy and use it to punish everyone else. Players leveling up, newer players, there are people that need those tokens and taking them away is a bad idea.

    Lets remember, the Dilithium problem is Cryptic's fault 100%. I don't like the idea of making one of the solutions a penalty to the players.

    Leave the system as it is and also add the option to buy re-rolls when you run out. This was always suggested to be one of many small adjustments, don't try to include a penalty in order to force this sink to single handedly solve the problem, it's not going to work.
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  • blackshap9#1072
    blackshap9#1072 Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    Dumbest thing ever, shows how clueless they are, this will have a negative impact on the game and won't effect the dilex at all

    I feel bad for new players that the DEVS again remove something that was given for free and now charge for it, the devs may understand computer gaming (but i challenge that) but they have 100% absolutely ZERO business IQ.

    Players are leaving in droves and it can be fixed so easily but they are blind. Oh well, who cares, off to play other games.

    EDIT: They might as well just charge 2500 dil to play TFOs.
  • jonsills
    jonsills Member Posts: 9,726 Arc User
    lowestlvl wrote: »
    hard no for me. i aint wasting 2500 of my hard, earned, time gated, currency.
    What else are you spending it on, then?
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  • skk1701j
    skk1701j Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    I like the idea of beeing able to buy re-roll token and pass token by Dili. But they should not remove the free ones. I just opened 120 of each. Somewhere I hit the limit of 50 tokens. 40/360 Box.
    They should also keep the pass token. They are rewarded sometimes on crit. This is the only use for most shuttles. They might reduce the change for a token.

    On Fed I tend to skip Prisoner Rewards, because they are useless for fed. On Klingon I can get rid of 20 a day easily.
  • blackshap9#1072
    blackshap9#1072 Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    Hey folks - we hear you on taking the free re-roll and pass tokens away. Discussions are happening internally, you'll hear something from me as soon as we know more.

    PLEASE Kael, FOCUS ON PHOENIX BOX!!!!!!

    Mudd store should just be for Ship Packages, all other items should be put into the PHOENIX BOX!!!

    SO SIMPLE!
  • avoozuul
    avoozuul Member Posts: 3,009 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    Oh god, I've found the system always seems to put a lot of painful endeavors in a row whenever I try to skip one causing me to waste many tokens, always the same pattern of endeavors it seems. Can't say I'm frilled with this change at all.
  • knightmare#8708
    knightmare#8708 Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    I really don't see this as an improvement. If anything it is just going to make more players leave the game, oh it won't affect those hard core gamers they have more dilithium that god so they don't really care. But new players especially and casual players are going to suffer. The ones who barely have enough admiralty cards as it is to do admiralty missions are going to really be left out.

    For some gathering dil is easy (they say it is easy) but I've not found it to be so, only able to refine 8k a day it can take quite some time to refine enough just to get the books for upgrading your gear and there are so few upgrade weekends getting your gear to Epic can cost a lot of books, well it does for me.

    My real concern though are the fleets. I can't speak for PC fleets but if you bring this change to console you are literally going to kill fleets dead. Already fleets struggle with getting upgraded with the huge amounts of Dil required to upgrade each amenity. The fleet I'm in has dozens of projects all stalled due to a lack of dilithium donation, because people cannot afford to use it there. It is left to a mere handful of fleet members to do 90% of the work when it comes to donating dil. Sure others donate EC, Fleet Marks and EXP easily enough but they stop short of donating any dilithium and it is killing fleets.

    We've just had a major purge of active members who play but don't donate as the membership was at the limit yet many players were contributing very little. Dilithium on console is not as easy to obtain, it can take more than 20 mins to get into a TFO so earning dil from there is hard once you've finished all the story arcs. I've bought out events (not every often) for the sole reason of obtaining more dil to refine as it is not easy to get if you're a casual player or have a large number of alts. If this change happens on consoles you can kiss fleets goodbye unless they reduce the amount of dil required for fleet projects

    If Cryptic could somehow get cross platform TFO's working with PS and Xbox that might help solve our long TFO wait times.
  • keepcalmchiveon
    keepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,004 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    meh

  • paradox#7391
    paradox#7391 Member Posts: 1,302 Arc User
    Yeah it's going to be hard pass, personally there's no way I'm spending Dil on something that worthless at least in my eyes, the whole point of a Dil sink is to entice us Dil hoarders to spend dilithium, not drive us away.
  • postagepaid
    postagepaid Member Posts: 2,869 Arc User
    Might see a short term wriggle but nothing significant in the long term, and thanks to the greedonomics that's driven the games direction for the past year or so this dil sink feels like a token gesture.

    Endeavours are just a pointless power creep in a game with a dificulty curve that's flatlining. Admiralty is just a silly side thing that doesn't serve much of a purpose other than to make unused ships feel valuable, most of it is offline timesink so doesn't add value to gameplay.

    Won't be an effective sink and don't really see it encouraging folk that don't currently engage in either system to do so at the cost being asked.
  • evilmark444
    evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,768 Arc User
    Won't be an effective sink and don't really see it encouraging folk that don't currently engage in either system to do so at the cost being asked.
    They acknowledged a week or two ago, before we even knew what it was going to be, that the upcoming change was going to be something low impact and was not expected to fix the problem on it's own. They have several sinks in the pipeline, and they want to go slowly so that they can see how much of an impact different things have, if any.
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  • paradox#7391
    paradox#7391 Member Posts: 1,302 Arc User
    Yeah it's going to be hard pass, personally there's no way I'm spending Dil on something that worthless at least in my eyes, the whole point of a Dil sink is to entice us Dil hoarders to spend dilithium, not drive us away.

    I called it worthless since I barely use the admiralty system and I don't even reroll endeavors, I get 1/3 done in a day, but most of the time I ignore it, plus I have a life outside this game, as much as I hate my responsibilities I still have to get them done, however I personally believe this will lead to a Dil Spike, people usually don't care about game mechanics stuff, we care more about ships, uniforms, vanity shields, pets and combat pets, since it's all going to come down to cosmetics if you want an actual petmanent Dil sink, just dangle shiny goodies and we'll take the bait, it's as simple as that, hell I rencently spend my converted Dil (Zen) on a 23rd century mirror uniform and I still have plenty of refined Dil (not converted into zen) to spend on uniforms.
  • lowestlvl
    lowestlvl Member Posts: 655 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    lowestlvl wrote: »
    hard no for me. i aint wasting 2500 of my hard, earned, time gated, currency.
    What else are you spending it on, then?

    nothing. all doffs are 4'd, all reps are 6'd, all admiralty is 10'd. all fleet assets are maxed. theres no point "engaging" with this system.
    There is no QA there is only ZUUL
    called out the bs and got BANNED. and i would gladly do it again.
  • crm14916
    crm14916 Member Posts: 1,434 Arc User
    > @totenmet said:
    > People with to much dilithium can always donate them to other players fleets that are still in need of leveling.

    Except they don't... Believe me... NO ONE donates Dilithium to fleets...
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