Tomorrow: Endevour/Admiralty pass tokens will ONLY be available for dilithium

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Comments

  • garabalde
    garabalde Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    lowestlvl wrote: »
    hard no for me. i aint w*asting 2500 of my hard, earned, time gated, currency.
    What else are you spending it on, then?

    What? really??? What else are you spending it on?
    What worthwhile item or mechanic doesnt cost dil in this game? Do you just spend 18 hrs a day playing, or $200 a month on Zen? Or do you only explore how one specific character build plays?

    Lets count a few ways some of us spend dil:

    ok, the dil store is a bit dated these days but it's still there and has a few situational useful items/consumables Count this as the last place spot.

    upgrades, except for the ultimate and omega variety
    any useful crafting (except those that I end up using tons of upgrades on)
    T1-T4 ships for older consoles or skins
    upgrades to my list of alt characters for extra traits/crafting slots/
    Any and all fleet gear items
    Pheonix packs
    donating to fleet and armada projects
    getting any rep project items (and then using upgrades on them)
    Im sure I missed a few here as well.

    Oh, and lets not forget the elephant in the room if I want to purchase something off the C-store, like for instance a pack with one of those amirie class smuggler ships in it,
    the pack that comes in costs (when its available) 29,500 Zen. Assume even during a discount, say 35% off, that would be 19,175 Zen. Multiply by the current maxed out exchange rate of 500dil:1Zen, we get 9,587,500 dil. I dont know about you, but Ive never even seen that much dil. And thats the most direct way I know of to get that particular ship. (shy of half a billion or so EC, which I also have never seen)

    What am I spending it on? You're insane.

    And to the guy a couple pages back who said that 2500 is "UNDERPRICED" for a chance roll item? equating 2500 dil at the current exchange rate to ONLY 5 zen. Yea, for what this one time use chance item MIGHT get you, Id cringe at spending 1 zen. At least if I buy a costume for a bit more I get it on all characters, and until the game gets shut down.

    Sorry PWE, this is yet another reason for me to take a year, or three off from your game(s).
    Note, I agree with the idea of adding the ability to buy the tokens for dil, but this price is insane, and getting rid of the ability to earn them otherwise will only drive me, and Im sure some other players away from your products entirely.



  • darkbladejk
    darkbladejk Member Posts: 3,301 Community Moderator
    Certain folks in here need to dial it back. If you people can't play nicely then just ignore each other and move on.
    What "free rerolls"? I earned that reroll as a potential reward for completing those Endeavors. Saying "free" is the same as you calling me a thief. I earned it. You want to fix the dil sink problem? Start by dumping the entire dil store back to those who made the offers on them. Nobody can buy anything right now.
    Just because some people are reroll trigger happy because they don't want to run certain ones, is their own blasted fault. There are only 2-3 I refuse to run, but manage to save 50 on a regualr basis. If you can't, you aren't even playing the game right.

    Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not. Second, cut the gatekeeping. You are not the deciding factor as to what is or isn't playing the game right. Markets are hyper-inflated right now and this allows folks an option to have extra tokens if they want them. you are not required to participate.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • thlaylierah
    thlaylierah Member Posts: 2,979 Arc User
    The thing about the Endeavor system is they just don't get it. I worked hard to set up my TOON and ship the way I like them. I especially don't like having to change out weapons or play as another character.
    How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers.
    I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.
  • thegrandnagus1
    thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,103 Arc User
    > @thlaylierah said:
    > The thing about the Endeavor system is they just don't get it. I worked hard to set up my TOON and ship the way I like them. I especially don't like having to change out weapons or play as another character.
    > How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers.
    > I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.


    The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts :p

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • livinlifejb90#4082
    livinlifejb90#4082 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    ngl, i kinda like the idea. my endeavor is only at lvl 65. why? because i find it tedious AF. it feels like a chore. and for me personally, this would actually make it just a little bit less so.
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  • keepcalmchiveon
    keepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,984 Arc User
    > @thlaylierah said:
    > The thing about the Endeavor system is they just don't get it. I worked hard to set up my TOON and ship the way I like them. I especially don't like having to change out weapons or play as another character.
    > How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers.
    > I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.


    The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts :p

    this. most times i even skip them cause i dont want to do it anyway.

    however, he brings up a good idea such as a drop down that allows one to change the type to use. not a bad idea, but skirts the system as it is set up.
    meh

  • evilmark444
    evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,764 Arc User
    The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts :p
    That WAS my strategy for those, but then Klingon Recruit came out with a big bonus for endeavors so I've had to spend most of 2021 using that one toon to do it every day ... only another 174k endeavor XP to go before I finish this ... should be able to get that in 14 days ... once I'm done I don't think I'll play this character again for at least a year cause I'm sick of using him day after day after day.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,190 Arc User
    The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts :p
    That WAS my strategy for those, but then Klingon Recruit came out with a big bonus for endeavors so I've had to spend most of 2021 using that one toon to do it every day ... only another 174k endeavor XP to go before I finish this ... should be able to get that in 14 days ... once I'm done I don't think I'll play this character again for at least a year cause I'm sick of using him day after day after day.

    That is why I don't worry about getting the recruit stuff done fast, I still have things left to do with my deltas from the first delta recruit rerun a few years ago (though I might never do all of the stuff for delta seeing as how they switched it to require Dust To Dust and I have no interest whatsoever in repeating that tribble, it is by far the worst most tedious episode in the game).
  • raijinmeister#1931
    raijinmeister#1931 Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    I like how the mastermind behind this "brilliant" idea doesn't know that most of us swimming in dilithium don't use reroll tokens anymore and we basically turn in contraband in multiple characters to do so.

    They are simply TRIBBLE the new players and reducing the likelihood of people invest their time in the game. Killing more of the already dying potential of the game.

    Breaking what was working to not fix what they broke and can't find a solution that does not involve a complete rebuild of the dilithium market or a rollback of the market ceiling.

    Cryptic being Cryptic. They really think their player base is made of absolute morons.
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,233 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    garabalde wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    lowestlvl wrote: »
    hard no for me. i aint w*asting 2500 of my hard, earned, time gated, currency.
    What else are you spending it on, then?

    What? really??? What else are you spending it on?
    What worthwhile item or mechanic doesnt cost dil in this game? Do you just spend 18 hrs a day playing, or $200 a month on Zen? Or do you only explore how one specific character build plays?

    Lets count a few ways some of us spend dil:

    ok, the dil store is a bit dated these days but it's still there and has a few situational useful items/consumables Count this as the last place spot.

    upgrades, except for the ultimate and omega variety
    any useful crafting (except those that I end up using tons of upgrades on)
    T1-T4 ships for older consoles or skins
    upgrades to my list of alt characters for extra traits/crafting slots/
    Any and all fleet gear items
    Pheonix packs
    donating to fleet and armada projects
    getting any rep project items (and then using upgrades on them)
    Im sure I missed a few here as well.

    Oh, and lets not forget the elephant in the room if I want to purchase something off the C-store, like for instance a pack with one of those amirie class smuggler ships in it,
    the pack that comes in costs (when its available) 29,500 Zen. Assume even during a discount, say 35% off, that would be 19,175 Zen. Multiply by the current maxed out exchange rate of 500dil:1Zen, we get 9,587,500 dil. I dont know about you, but Ive never even seen that much dil. And thats the most direct way I know of to get that particular ship. (shy of half a billion or so EC, which I also have never seen)

    What am I spending it on? You're insane.

    And to the guy a couple pages back who said that 2500 is "UNDERPRICED" for a chance roll item? equating 2500 dil at the current exchange rate to ONLY 5 zen. Yea, for what this one time use chance item MIGHT get you, Id cringe at spending 1 zen. At least if I buy a costume for a bit more I get it on all characters, and until the game gets shut down.

    Sorry PWE, this is yet another reason for me to take a year, or three off from your game(s).
    Note, I agree with the idea of adding the ability to buy the tokens for dil, but this price is insane, and getting rid of the ability to earn them otherwise will only drive me, and Im sure some other players away from your products entirely.



    The problem with your list is this... everything on it, with the exception of buying zen, has some sort of logical limit. It may be a high limit, but it's there. Eventually you have all the fleet/crafted/episode/rep/phoenix gear you want and have upgraded it to the max, you have all the low-tier ships you want, your fleet is maxed out, etc.

    So what happens when the zen sellers have reached that limit? They stop selling zen to get dilithium because they have nothing left to spend the dilithium on.

    And then supply/demand gets tilted toward the remaining zen sellers, and the exchange rate goes up.

    Oh... wait.....

    With the exception of a few more episode, event, and ship based items (many of which come already epic, so there's no upgrading), we have not had anything on that list added to the game in over two years. Which is where the problem arises: the devs stopped moving the finish line and allowed zen sellers to actually reach it.
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,233 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    westmetals wrote: »
    With the exception of a few more episode, event, and ship based items (many of which come already epic, so there's no upgrading), we have not had anything on that list added to the game in over two years. Which is where the problem arises: the devs stopped moving the finish line and allowed zen sellers to actually reach it.
    To be fair though, the finish line stopped moving because players asked them to stop moving it. I don't think I've seen a largely positive reception to the idea of a new rep, or fleet holding, or whatever, in quite a long time. Most people are pretty burnt out on them all, since they have been expanded so far as is.

    Which just goes to show that the customer is not always right.

    Also, it would not necessarily need to be a "new rep, a new fleet holding", or something like that. It could be something totally new... like for example a player housing system (I know, I know)... or adding more stuff to the Phoenix boxes (the event rewards since they stopped doing that, maybe the T5 Mirror Universe non-upgradeable ships, etc...) (or heck even being able to trade tokens upward)... new R&D items (like for example alternately-colored weapons that will visually match with specialty weapons in their types, like being able to make standard disruptors that color match the Terran, Martok, or Spiral Wave ones).... shifting some of the less popular Zen store items (bridges, race unlocks, etc) to dilithium... (which they did already with T1-T4 ships).... etc.

    But with the vague exception of a few episode, event, and ship-based items... we really have not had anything at all that people would spend dilithium on, added since the Discovery rep was added in early summer of 2019, and by then there was already maxed out fleets, perma-Phoenix, etc.
  • pottsey5g
    pottsey5g Member Posts: 3,681 Arc User
    Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not.
    My objection isn't to the change its the unreasonable short notice. Earning those reroll tokens wasn't free it took hours and hours of work. Now due to short notice many people are going to lose out on 50 ish tokens they spent a long time over many months of playing daily to earn. I have not done the math but it feels like it takes something like 30days to earn those 50 tokens. It was only by shear fluke I spotted the message at 11.30pm last night otherwise I would have lost 50 tokens myself. There should have been more notice to give people chance to open the box's for the tokens they earned. A lot of us where only opening them as we needed them.



  • szim
    szim Member Posts: 2,488 Arc User
    If they are admitting that this won't have much of an effect on the dilithium market, why implement it anyways? It puzzles me. As people have mentioned, this mostly affects new and casual players, who don't own a ton of admiralty ships and who can't complete most endeavours in a couple of minutes.
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,233 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    Just imagine... [Imitation Spiral Wave Disruptor Array Mk XII [CrtD]x3]

    Looks like a SWD but has the regular disruptor stats. Etc. They could make these for all specialty/rep weapons and put them into the R&D system. People would spend dilithium crafting them (and I don't know, maybe buying special ingredients?)... and then more upgrading and re-engineering them. And since nobody has them now...

    ...and space barbie being what it is... and yet you could do this with rather limited artistry necessary (as the basic graphics already exist, they just need to modify for additional weapon styles in some cases, like making a TTF omni or similar).

    [Imitation Chronometric Omni-Directional Polaron Beam].... [Imitation Romulan Plasma Dual Beam Bank]... etc.
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,190 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not.
    My objection isn't to the change its the unreasonable short notice. Earning those reroll tokens wasn't free it took hours and hours of work. Now due to short notice many people are going to lose out on 50 ish tokens they spent a long time over many months of playing daily to earn. I have not done the math but it feels like it takes something like 30days to earn those 50 tokens. It was only by shear fluke I spotted the message at 11.30pm last night otherwise I would have lost 50 tokens myself. There should have been more notice to give people chance to open the box's for the tokens they earned. A lot of us where only opening them as we needed them.



    They said something about no one will lose the ones they already have, they just took the tokens out of the loot tables so no more can be gotten as rewards and will have to buy any new ones.
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,233 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not.
    My objection isn't to the change its the unreasonable short notice. Earning those reroll tokens wasn't free it took hours and hours of work. Now due to short notice many people are going to lose out on 50 ish tokens they spent a long time over many months of playing daily to earn. I have not done the math but it feels like it takes something like 30days to earn those 50 tokens. It was only by shear fluke I spotted the message at 11.30pm last night otherwise I would have lost 50 tokens myself. There should have been more notice to give people chance to open the box's for the tokens they earned. A lot of us where only opening them as we needed them.



    They said something about no one will lose the ones they already have, they just took the tokens out of the loot tables so no more can be gotten as rewards and will have to buy any new ones.

    Yeah... he meant he was sitting on unopened boxes. Which would have become subject to the new loot table.
  • peterconnorfirst
    peterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    If there has been one constant around here the past year it was a omnidirectional scream for dil sinks.

    I always had the impression that the discussed suggestions smelled hypocritical as everybody seemed to want something that would help with the problem without being part of the solution oneself. You know, fleet holdings are a great sink... especially for those who don’t tend to them anyway. ;)

    Reading through this thread really has my impression on the matter justified.

    This sink more and more feels like a great one with a reasonable impact.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
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    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • ee3452p
    ee3452p Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    I gravely disagree with this change.

    I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens, so for me it means I'm discouraged to do the Admirality thing, or it will give me less new Dilithium from the Ferengi Tour of Duty, because I sometimes won't reach the next Tour of Duty Mission.

    Also, I will not spend anything on pass tokens, so if the mission of the day doesn't suit me, I will ignore it.

    Overall these changes just result in me playing the game LESS, and as a result I'm also LESS inclined to spend any real world money on it.

    Bad change.

    It would be okay if the old system would stay in place, and this was ADDED as an additional way to spend dilithium, as a pay for convenience measure if people run out of pass tokens.

    But this way, you are taking things away from people only to RESELL it to them for a high price. "Oh, and by the way, the air your are breathing, that's 4800 Zen as a discount now."
    A zero cost way for Cryptic to finance and expand the foundry

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1247522/foundry-sunset-april-11th-2019/p15

    Look at my post about a Foundry Ship

    BRING BACK THE FOUNDRY!
  • peterconnorfirst
    peterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    > @ee3452p said:
    > I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens, so for me it means I'm discouraged to do the Admirality thing, or it will give me less new Dilithium from the Ferengi Tour of Duty, because I sometimes won't reach the next Tour of Duty Mission.


    Oh what a coincident, you seem to be exactly in the same boat as me!

    If you are that discouraged however to to even continue to do admiralty you contribution to the economy far greater than intended or as I am willing to do.

    For that I thank you! :)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • pottsey5g
    pottsey5g Member Posts: 3,681 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    The thing about the Endeavor system is they just don't get it. I worked hard to set up my TOON and ship the way I like them. I especially don't like having to change out weapons or play as another character.
    How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers.
    I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.
    Is having to change one weapon on your ship, for one TFO, to get even the hard endeavor done really such a big deal? I don't think most people are that religiously devoted to their setups that it bothers them.
    It can be for some players as they might not have any skill points or boosts for energy weapons, don't have a full set of differnt energy weapons upgraded or even own a full set of different weapons types and/or don't have FaW builds which leads to certain energy weapons endeavors taking a long time to do sometimes longer then 1 TFO. Its not that they are hard its that without the right build they can take a long time to do so players like to skip them. That's the point of the tokens you skip the ones that don't match your build so you can focus on doing your own playstyle.

    Another one I like but reroll unless it lands on a weekends is destorying torpedo's. Like the energy weapons one I don't always have time to do it in the week.

  • peterconnorfirst
    peterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    > @ee3452p said:
    > It would be okay if the old system would stay in place, and this was ADDED as an additional way to spend dilithium, as a pay for convenience measure if people run out of pass tokens.


    In other words you want a system change that can easily be circumvented. Im afraid it would miss the entire point as to why they implement it in the first place.
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • godseater666
    godseater666 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Just a big steal of reallife Money that crappy idea...

    Since you can only do 8k dilithium refine a day, and thats the mark you point it for real, you just wants more peeps that buy zen convert it to refined dilithium and then set the pricings so high that most players had to use reallife money if they dont want to waste a reallife day gaming progress

    I hope this will go the same way as such a try in -EVE- was going...they lost 100k paying players with an finger snip
    Your game is like an "Volkswagen", not an Bentley...
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,233 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    It can be for some players as they might not have any skill points or boosts for energy weapons, don't have a full set of differnt energy weapons upgraded or even own a full set of different weapo types and/or don't have FaW builds which leads to certain energy weapons endeavors taking a long time to do. Its not that they are hard its that without the right build they can take a long time to do so players like to skip them. That's the point of the tokens you skip the ones that don't match your build so you can focus on doing your own playstyle.
    I use a single, un-upgraded, MK12, very rare, weapon from the rep stores, and still do it in one TFO. You don't need any real boosts, consoles, or even FAW spam, to complete even the hard endeavor for energy weapon types. Some of the patrols, especially the ones with Elachi, also just rack up the damage with no effort.

    Heck, just fly a ship with a hangar, and swap out the hangar pets.

    (Or do what I did and have an alt for each energy type)

    The real fun one though is that you can do kinetic without actually attacking at all - the Bajor Defense engines will damage enemy ships if you fly close to them, and it's kinetic damage.
  • pottsey5g
    pottsey5g Member Posts: 3,681 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    It can be for some players as they might not have any skill points or boosts for energy weapons, don't have a full set of differnt energy weapons upgraded or even own a full set of different weapo types and/or don't have FaW builds which leads to certain energy weapons endeavors taking a long time to do. Its not that they are hard its that without the right build they can take a long time to do so players like to skip them. That's the point of the tokens you skip the ones that don't match your build so you can focus on doing your own playstyle.
    I use a single, un-upgraded, MK12, very rare, weapon from the rep stores, and still do it in one TFO. You don't need any real boosts, consoles, or even FAW spam, to complete even the hard endeavor for energy weapon types. Some of the patrols, especially the ones with Elachi, also just rack up the damage with no effort.
    That's not what I found and it often took a long time to do longer then 1 TFO as I have zero skill points in energy weapons and zero skill points in energy transfer and run at minimum weapon energy all my power is Aux. Personally I don't have a problem with those energy endeavors, I just understand why some people will want to reroll them more so when they have limited playtime in the week.
  • parmeggido
    parmeggido Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    Since you can only do 8k dilithium refine a day,
    I wrestled with how to put this for awhile, but whatever. I have 9 characters, which allows me to refine 72000 dilithium per day, or 76500 if I use the fleet bonus. I don't play all my characters every day, but popping in on each to set up reputation, doff missions, and admiralty just to keep their dil from running out too fast doesn't take very long. Then, I just play one that's running low, experiment with his builds, maybe upgrade a bit, and once he's in a good place, move on to another one. Depending on how much I'm actually gunning for dilithium, getting a character up to 40k-50k dilithium really doesn't take that long, and depending on the luck with admiralty, that can keep them hitting the refine limit for weeks. I've seen a lot of people that act like you only get that 8000 dilithium per day, and if you only play one character, or don't share it between characters, then sure, this change can seem expensive. But each character that has made it to their desired build can start building up their dilithium or make it easier for your next character to get to where you want them to be. From where I am, assuming everyone is making this tiny amount of dilithium seems shortsighted, but it would also seem shortsighted to think everyone is making as much dil as I do when I'm active. I would assume the average is more around the 2-3 character refine limit, 16k-24k, but I have nothing to really base that on, it would only be an assumption.

    Just as an example, with 13 reputations in the game, if you're running the dailies, that's up to 4420 dilithium without having any bonuses active. Contraband is another 2000. Relocate colonists doff mission is 500, and engineering has a doff misison that gives 250. That only leaves a shortfall of ~1000 dilithium before doing any admiralty, while barely touching the game once a character is set up.