hard no for me. i aint w*asting 2500 of my hard, earned, time gated, currency.
What else are you spending it on, then?
What? really??? What else are you spending it on?
What worthwhile item or mechanic doesnt cost dil in this game? Do you just spend 18 hrs a day playing, or $200 a month on Zen? Or do you only explore how one specific character build plays?
Lets count a few ways some of us spend dil:
ok, the dil store is a bit dated these days but it's still there and has a few situational useful items/consumables Count this as the last place spot.
upgrades, except for the ultimate and omega variety
any useful crafting (except those that I end up using tons of upgrades on)
T1-T4 ships for older consoles or skins
upgrades to my list of alt characters for extra traits/crafting slots/
Any and all fleet gear items
Pheonix packs
donating to fleet and armada projects
getting any rep project items (and then using upgrades on them)
Im sure I missed a few here as well.
Oh, and lets not forget the elephant in the room if I want to purchase something off the C-store, like for instance a pack with one of those amirie class smuggler ships in it,
the pack that comes in costs (when its available) 29,500 Zen. Assume even during a discount, say 35% off, that would be 19,175 Zen. Multiply by the current maxed out exchange rate of 500dil:1Zen, we get 9,587,500 dil. I dont know about you, but Ive never even seen that much dil. And thats the most direct way I know of to get that particular ship. (shy of half a billion or so EC, which I also have never seen)
What am I spending it on? You're insane.
And to the guy a couple pages back who said that 2500 is "UNDERPRICED" for a chance roll item? equating 2500 dil at the current exchange rate to ONLY 5 zen. Yea, for what this one time use chance item MIGHT get you, Id cringe at spending 1 zen. At least if I buy a costume for a bit more I get it on all characters, and until the game gets shut down.
Sorry PWE, this is yet another reason for me to take a year, or three off from your game(s).
Note, I agree with the idea of adding the ability to buy the tokens for dil, but this price is insane, and getting rid of the ability to earn them otherwise will only drive me, and Im sure some other players away from your products entirely.
What "free rerolls"? I earned that reroll as a potential reward for completing those Endeavors. Saying "free" is the same as you calling me a thief. I earned it. You want to fix the dil sink problem? Start by dumping the entire dil store back to those who made the offers on them. Nobody can buy anything right now.
Just because some people are reroll trigger happy because they don't want to run certain ones, is their own blasted fault. There are only 2-3 I refuse to run, but manage to save 50 on a regualr basis. If you can't, you aren't even playing the game right.
Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not. Second, cut the gatekeeping. You are not the deciding factor as to what is or isn't playing the game right. Markets are hyper-inflated right now and this allows folks an option to have extra tokens if they want them. you are not required to participate.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
The thing about the Endeavor system is they just don't get it. I worked hard to set up my TOON and ship the way I like them. I especially don't like having to change out weapons or play as another character.
How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers.
I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.
> @thlaylierah said: > The thing about the Endeavor system is they just don't get it. I worked hard to set up my TOON and ship the way I like them. I especially don't like having to change out weapons or play as another character. > How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers. > I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.
The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts
ngl, i kinda like the idea. my endeavor is only at lvl 65. why? because i find it tedious AF. it feels like a chore. and for me personally, this would actually make it just a little bit less so.
The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts
That WAS my strategy for those, but then Klingon Recruit came out with a big bonus for endeavors so I've had to spend most of 2021 using that one toon to do it every day ... only another 174k endeavor XP to go before I finish this ... should be able to get that in 14 days ... once I'm done I don't think I'll play this character again for at least a year cause I'm sick of using him day after day after day.
The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts
That WAS my strategy for those, but then Klingon Recruit came out with a big bonus for endeavors so I've had to spend most of 2021 using that one toon to do it every day ... only another 174k endeavor XP to go before I finish this ... should be able to get that in 14 days ... once I'm done I don't think I'll play this character again for at least a year cause I'm sick of using him day after day after day.
That is why I don't worry about getting the recruit stuff done fast, I still have things left to do with my deltas from the first delta recruit rerun a few years ago (though I might never do all of the stuff for delta seeing as how they switched it to require Dust To Dust and I have no interest whatsoever in repeating that tribble, it is by far the worst most tedious episode in the game).
I like how the mastermind behind this "brilliant" idea doesn't know that most of us swimming in dilithium don't use reroll tokens anymore and we basically turn in contraband in multiple characters to do so.
They are simply TRIBBLE the new players and reducing the likelihood of people invest their time in the game. Killing more of the already dying potential of the game.
Breaking what was working to not fix what they broke and can't find a solution that does not involve a complete rebuild of the dilithium market or a rollback of the market ceiling.
Cryptic being Cryptic. They really think their player base is made of absolute morons.
Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not.
My objection isn't to the change its the unreasonable short notice. Earning those reroll tokens wasn't free it took hours and hours of work. Now due to short notice many people are going to lose out on 50 ish tokens they spent a long time over many months of playing daily to earn. I have not done the math but it feels like it takes something like 30days to earn those 50 tokens. It was only by shear fluke I spotted the message at 11.30pm last night otherwise I would have lost 50 tokens myself. There should have been more notice to give people chance to open the box's for the tokens they earned. A lot of us where only opening them as we needed them.
If they are admitting that this won't have much of an effect on the dilithium market, why implement it anyways? It puzzles me. As people have mentioned, this mostly affects new and casual players, who don't own a ton of admiralty ships and who can't complete most endeavours in a couple of minutes.
Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not.
My objection isn't to the change its the unreasonable short notice. Earning those reroll tokens wasn't free it took hours and hours of work. Now due to short notice many people are going to lose out on 50 ish tokens they spent a long time over many months of playing daily to earn. I have not done the math but it feels like it takes something like 30days to earn those 50 tokens. It was only by shear fluke I spotted the message at 11.30pm last night otherwise I would have lost 50 tokens myself. There should have been more notice to give people chance to open the box's for the tokens they earned. A lot of us where only opening them as we needed them.
They said something about no one will lose the ones they already have, they just took the tokens out of the loot tables so no more can be gotten as rewards and will have to buy any new ones.
If there has been one constant around here the past year it was a omnidirectional scream for dil sinks.
I always had the impression that the discussed suggestions smelled hypocritical as everybody seemed to want something that would help with the problem without being part of the solution oneself. You know, fleet holdings are a great sink... especially for those who don’t tend to them anyway.
Reading through this thread really has my impression on the matter justified.
This sink more and more feels like a great one with a reasonable impact.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens, so for me it means I'm discouraged to do the Admirality thing, or it will give me less new Dilithium from the Ferengi Tour of Duty, because I sometimes won't reach the next Tour of Duty Mission.
Also, I will not spend anything on pass tokens, so if the mission of the day doesn't suit me, I will ignore it.
Overall these changes just result in me playing the game LESS, and as a result I'm also LESS inclined to spend any real world money on it.
Bad change.
It would be okay if the old system would stay in place, and this was ADDED as an additional way to spend dilithium, as a pay for convenience measure if people run out of pass tokens.
But this way, you are taking things away from people only to RESELL it to them for a high price. "Oh, and by the way, the air your are breathing, that's 4800 Zen as a discount now."
A zero cost way for Cryptic to finance and expand the foundry
> @ee3452p said: > I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens, so for me it means I'm discouraged to do the Admirality thing, or it will give me less new Dilithium from the Ferengi Tour of Duty, because I sometimes won't reach the next Tour of Duty Mission.
Oh what a coincident, you seem to be exactly in the same boat as me!
If you are that discouraged however to to even continue to do admiralty you contribution to the economy far greater than intended or as I am willing to do.
For that I thank you!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The thing about the Endeavor system is they just don't get it. I worked hard to set up my TOON and ship the way I like them. I especially don't like having to change out weapons or play as another character.
How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers.
I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.
Is having to change one weapon on your ship, for one TFO, to get even the hard endeavor done really such a big deal? I don't think most people are that religiously devoted to their setups that it bothers them.
It can be for some players as they might not have any skill points or boosts for energy weapons, don't have a full set of differnt energy weapons upgraded or even own a full set of different weapons types and/or don't have FaW builds which leads to certain energy weapons endeavors taking a long time to do sometimes longer then 1 TFO. Its not that they are hard its that without the right build they can take a long time to do so players like to skip them. That's the point of the tokens you skip the ones that don't match your build so you can focus on doing your own playstyle.
Another one I like but reroll unless it lands on a weekends is destorying torpedo's. Like the energy weapons one I don't always have time to do it in the week.
> @ee3452p said: > It would be okay if the old system would stay in place, and this was ADDED as an additional way to spend dilithium, as a pay for convenience measure if people run out of pass tokens.
In other words you want a system change that can easily be circumvented. Im afraid it would miss the entire point as to why they implement it in the first place.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Just a big steal of reallife Money that crappy idea...
Since you can only do 8k dilithium refine a day, and thats the mark you point it for real, you just wants more peeps that buy zen convert it to refined dilithium and then set the pricings so high that most players had to use reallife money if they dont want to waste a reallife day gaming progress
I hope this will go the same way as such a try in -EVE- was going...they lost 100k paying players with an finger snip
Your game is like an "Volkswagen", not an Bentley...
It can be for some players as they might not have any skill points or boosts for energy weapons, don't have a full set of differnt energy weapons upgraded or even own a full set of different weapo types and/or don't have FaW builds which leads to certain energy weapons endeavors taking a long time to do. Its not that they are hard its that without the right build they can take a long time to do so players like to skip them. That's the point of the tokens you skip the ones that don't match your build so you can focus on doing your own playstyle.
I use a single, un-upgraded, MK12, very rare, weapon from the rep stores, and still do it in one TFO. You don't need any real boosts, consoles, or even FAW spam, to complete even the hard endeavor for energy weapon types. Some of the patrols, especially the ones with Elachi, also just rack up the damage with no effort.
That's not what I found and it often took a long time to do longer then 1 TFO as I have zero skill points in energy weapons and zero skill points in energy transfer and run at minimum weapon energy all my power is Aux. Personally I don't have a problem with those energy endeavors, I just understand why some people will want to reroll them more so when they have limited playtime in the week.
I wrestled with how to put this for awhile, but whatever. I have 9 characters, which allows me to refine 72000 dilithium per day, or 76500 if I use the fleet bonus. I don't play all my characters every day, but popping in on each to set up reputation, doff missions, and admiralty just to keep their dil from running out too fast doesn't take very long. Then, I just play one that's running low, experiment with his builds, maybe upgrade a bit, and once he's in a good place, move on to another one. Depending on how much I'm actually gunning for dilithium, getting a character up to 40k-50k dilithium really doesn't take that long, and depending on the luck with admiralty, that can keep them hitting the refine limit for weeks. I've seen a lot of people that act like you only get that 8000 dilithium per day, and if you only play one character, or don't share it between characters, then sure, this change can seem expensive. But each character that has made it to their desired build can start building up their dilithium or make it easier for your next character to get to where you want them to be. From where I am, assuming everyone is making this tiny amount of dilithium seems shortsighted, but it would also seem shortsighted to think everyone is making as much dil as I do when I'm active. I would assume the average is more around the 2-3 character refine limit, 16k-24k, but I have nothing to really base that on, it would only be an assumption.
Just as an example, with 13 reputations in the game, if you're running the dailies, that's up to 4420 dilithium without having any bonuses active. Contraband is another 2000. Relocate colonists doff mission is 500, and engineering has a doff misison that gives 250. That only leaves a shortfall of ~1000 dilithium before doing any admiralty, while barely touching the game once a character is set up.
Comments
What? really??? What else are you spending it on?
What worthwhile item or mechanic doesnt cost dil in this game? Do you just spend 18 hrs a day playing, or $200 a month on Zen? Or do you only explore how one specific character build plays?
Lets count a few ways some of us spend dil:
ok, the dil store is a bit dated these days but it's still there and has a few situational useful items/consumables Count this as the last place spot.
upgrades, except for the ultimate and omega variety
any useful crafting (except those that I end up using tons of upgrades on)
T1-T4 ships for older consoles or skins
upgrades to my list of alt characters for extra traits/crafting slots/
Any and all fleet gear items
Pheonix packs
donating to fleet and armada projects
getting any rep project items (and then using upgrades on them)
Im sure I missed a few here as well.
Oh, and lets not forget the elephant in the room if I want to purchase something off the C-store, like for instance a pack with one of those amirie class smuggler ships in it,
the pack that comes in costs (when its available) 29,500 Zen. Assume even during a discount, say 35% off, that would be 19,175 Zen. Multiply by the current maxed out exchange rate of 500dil:1Zen, we get 9,587,500 dil. I dont know about you, but Ive never even seen that much dil. And thats the most direct way I know of to get that particular ship. (shy of half a billion or so EC, which I also have never seen)
What am I spending it on? You're insane.
And to the guy a couple pages back who said that 2500 is "UNDERPRICED" for a chance roll item? equating 2500 dil at the current exchange rate to ONLY 5 zen. Yea, for what this one time use chance item MIGHT get you, Id cringe at spending 1 zen. At least if I buy a costume for a bit more I get it on all characters, and until the game gets shut down.
Sorry PWE, this is yet another reason for me to take a year, or three off from your game(s).
Note, I agree with the idea of adding the ability to buy the tokens for dil, but this price is insane, and getting rid of the ability to earn them otherwise will only drive me, and Im sure some other players away from your products entirely.
Bottom line it didn't cost you a thing to generate it, so yes it's free whether you want to say you earned it or not. Second, cut the gatekeeping. You are not the deciding factor as to what is or isn't playing the game right. Markets are hyper-inflated right now and this allows folks an option to have extra tokens if they want them. you are not required to participate.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers.
I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.
> The thing about the Endeavor system is they just don't get it. I worked hard to set up my TOON and ship the way I like them. I especially don't like having to change out weapons or play as another character.
> How about a "Use the energy weapon of your choice" endeavor? The Kinetic one is fine and doesn't ask me to switch different torpedo launchers.
> I'm going to like to be able to buy skips.
The "use X weapon type" is more about alts IMO. I'm a weapon traditionalist so phaser = fed, disruptor = kdf, plasma = rom, polaron = dom, etc. So I use the alt that corresponds to the weapon type. But obviously that only works if you have those alts
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That is why I don't worry about getting the recruit stuff done fast, I still have things left to do with my deltas from the first delta recruit rerun a few years ago (though I might never do all of the stuff for delta seeing as how they switched it to require Dust To Dust and I have no interest whatsoever in repeating that tribble, it is by far the worst most tedious episode in the game).
They are simply TRIBBLE the new players and reducing the likelihood of people invest their time in the game. Killing more of the already dying potential of the game.
Breaking what was working to not fix what they broke and can't find a solution that does not involve a complete rebuild of the dilithium market or a rollback of the market ceiling.
Cryptic being Cryptic. They really think their player base is made of absolute morons.
They said something about no one will lose the ones they already have, they just took the tokens out of the loot tables so no more can be gotten as rewards and will have to buy any new ones.
I always had the impression that the discussed suggestions smelled hypocritical as everybody seemed to want something that would help with the problem without being part of the solution oneself. You know, fleet holdings are a great sink... especially for those who don’t tend to them anyway.
Reading through this thread really has my impression on the matter justified.
This sink more and more feels like a great one with a reasonable impact.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens, so for me it means I'm discouraged to do the Admirality thing, or it will give me less new Dilithium from the Ferengi Tour of Duty, because I sometimes won't reach the next Tour of Duty Mission.
Also, I will not spend anything on pass tokens, so if the mission of the day doesn't suit me, I will ignore it.
Overall these changes just result in me playing the game LESS, and as a result I'm also LESS inclined to spend any real world money on it.
Bad change.
It would be okay if the old system would stay in place, and this was ADDED as an additional way to spend dilithium, as a pay for convenience measure if people run out of pass tokens.
But this way, you are taking things away from people only to RESELL it to them for a high price. "Oh, and by the way, the air your are breathing, that's 4800 Zen as a discount now."
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1247522/foundry-sunset-april-11th-2019/p15
Look at my post about a Foundry Ship
BRING BACK THE FOUNDRY!
> I do the Admirality system to GET dilithium. I will not spend ANY dilithium on these pass tokens, so for me it means I'm discouraged to do the Admirality thing, or it will give me less new Dilithium from the Ferengi Tour of Duty, because I sometimes won't reach the next Tour of Duty Mission.
Oh what a coincident, you seem to be exactly in the same boat as me!
If you are that discouraged however to to even continue to do admiralty you contribution to the economy far greater than intended or as I am willing to do.
For that I thank you!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Another one I like but reroll unless it lands on a weekends is destorying torpedo's. Like the energy weapons one I don't always have time to do it in the week.
> It would be okay if the old system would stay in place, and this was ADDED as an additional way to spend dilithium, as a pay for convenience measure if people run out of pass tokens.
In other words you want a system change that can easily be circumvented. Im afraid it would miss the entire point as to why they implement it in the first place.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Since you can only do 8k dilithium refine a day, and thats the mark you point it for real, you just wants more peeps that buy zen convert it to refined dilithium and then set the pricings so high that most players had to use reallife money if they dont want to waste a reallife day gaming progress
I hope this will go the same way as such a try in -EVE- was going...they lost 100k paying players with an finger snip
Your game is like an "Volkswagen", not an Bentley...
Just as an example, with 13 reputations in the game, if you're running the dailies, that's up to 4420 dilithium without having any bonuses active. Contraband is another 2000. Relocate colonists doff mission is 500, and engineering has a doff misison that gives 250. That only leaves a shortfall of ~1000 dilithium before doing any admiralty, while barely touching the game once a character is set up.